Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]

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Just had this battle. Both playing very defensive teams... and it got a little silly.

https://pastebin.com/7QDFSRKZ

Essentially, both players had 2 checks to everything on the opposing team, meaning we could just keep switching for an infinite battle loop. I ws trying to bait the opponent into wasting PP of Sludge Wave/Encore and Giga Drain/Leaf Storm so Clefable/Quagsire could clear up respectively but it was too easy to check and switch.

Verdict: Ban Regenerator. Yes, it's the crux of my team but it's simply too much when added to pokemon like Chansey, Clefable in addition to their already ridiculous defensive abilities.

OM! said:
How about:

King’s Rock-

Poison Touch (Tail Slap makes contact), Merciless, Skill Link, Technician, Serene Grace, Filler

No need for Unaware if you Critical Hit, Poison hurts them further for damage without Magic Guard, while Serene Grace stacks without Poison Touch and King’s Rock to have more likelihood to stall with Flinches while accumulating Poison damage, breaking Sash, Sturdy, Substitute and Marvel Scale.

Poison Touch can also be useful for Hex, Venoshock and can work with the poison Status to deal double damage
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Filler = Scrappy for Ghosts. Sounds fun though. What were you planning on using it with - Ambipom?
 
Don't get why we are considering Skill link a problem when Magic Guard + Multiscale/Sturdy are the actual cancers. Skill Link is a "side effect", it's literally NO DIFFERENT than the other power boosting Abilities like Guts, Toxic Boost, Adapt, etc. People resorted to Skill Link to break past those teams because there is nearly nothing you can do vs them. I'd rather address Magic Guard than Skill Link.
 
Chopin Alkaninoff said:
Don't get why we are considering Skill link a problem when Magic Guard + Multiscale/Sturdy are the actual cancers. Skill Link is a "side effect", it's literally NO DIFFERENT than the other power boosting Abilities like Guts, Toxic Boost, Adapt, etc. People resorted to Skill Link to break past those teams because there is nearly nothing you can do vs them. I'd rather address Magic Guard than Skill Link.
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skill link is still a broken ability even if it beats another broken strat. lol. you know its bad when i need to run marvel scale PH with multiscale just to not get ohkoed by these things....on an offensive team. because they will likely outspeed and ohko your entire team. cincinno and beedrill are just too fast and powerful in this tier. forcing people to rely on strategies like stamina just to attempt to stop it. the issue isnt JUST mguard and multiscale/sturdy. the main issue is that the fact that the #1 most viable and reliable methods to stop nuclear sweeps in this tier cant even stop multi hit spam. forcing people to run stamina, marvel scale, and other otherwise lackluster mons just to attempt to stop them. and it doesnt even work.

again, the problem with this tier right now is that there are four different broken strats that arent problems at ALL to other strats.

PH triage.(poison healers with triage,guts, sometimes toxic boost, mold pangoro, and aeri dnite to name a few)
multi hit (technician, sometimes adapt, noguard, hustle, sometimes tough claws, anti-priority.)
sturdyspam(this is a special case where any team benefits from sturdy)
unfair stalling( certain combos of: MG, ph, unaware, multiscale, regen, stamina, etc that just let you switch endlessly)

all of these strategies are broken. the problem is if you dont use multiple variants of teams in shared power, you would never notice just how matchup based these four strategies make the tier.

and the problem is if we tackle one issue, the other three dominate with iron fists. what NEEDS to be done is
ban skill link.
ban magic guard.
ban Poison heal.
suspect Magic bounce.
eventually suspect triage.
we need to ban the enablers. by removing these trio, stall loses a MASSIVE defensive backbone, skill link,sturdy, and multiscale loses reliability. and triage is basically nerfed to the ground and can no longer rely on poison heal+guts and toxic boost to break down teams.
and magic bounce will come into play to try to strengthen sturdyspam/multiscale spam. so it needs to be monitored. and idk if banning PH will really bother triage teams. triage forces the meta into a "do we run queenly/dazzle to shut down a strat, or do we run another ability and risk autolosing to it." its just a unhealthy way for the meta to play out. since both teams are basically thinking "do i let myself autolose, or do i want a fighting chance"
 
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Lcass4919 said:
ban skill link.
ban magic guard.
ban Poison heal.
suspect Magic bounce.
eventually suspect triage.
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I agree that there are a lot of borken things on the meta, but that is what makes it fun. If we ban 4 or 5 abilities the meta would still be broken because a pokemon with 6 abilities is likely to be broken. What we need are tools to deal with them, and for that each ability must have counterplay.

I will support what chopin said. Magic guard is an ability that offers no counterplay, is easy to fit into a team, and it fills a lot of rols, even outclassing abilities like magic bounce, rock head and overcoat. With magic guard you are making sandstorm and hail damage, entry hazzard damage and even rocky helmet or leech seed useless. The only reliable strategy to break sturdy and multiscale is skill link, but this is not just because skill link is broken, but because magic guard offers a safety lock that prevents a lot of possible counterplay from happening.

Even without magic guard, players can protect from hazzards with magic bounce and sand damage with overcoat or poison heal, but those abilities are not invincible, neither offers the same role compression than magic guard does.

Baning magic guard can make the meta far more versatile and entertaining. Here i list some examples

1) PH teams runing toxic spikes to bounce them and get free poison without losing a item slot.
2) Teams runing prankster excadril to set up stealth rock and rapid spin without fearing a magic bounce
3) Contrary teams runing sticky webs for obvios reasons
4) Teams runing levitate instead of magic bounce to prevent situations like (1) and (3) from hapening, but at the same time gaining protection from spikes and webs
5) Teams runing sableye in case a magic bouncer is needed or not, depending on the opposite team
6) defog to clean the entire field (and prevent sticky webs boost on contrary teams)
7) sand stream and snow warning becoming more prelevant
8) Forrestres becoming viable because of overcoat/sturdy, spikes and rapid spin

While this is pure theory, i will be in favor of Baning Magic Guard from sharing and let the meta develop for a time.
 
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Haaku. said:
The current biggest problem in the metagame is Skill Link in my opinion and the removal of this ability might just be what the metagame needs to get into a stable state.

mega_beedrill_by_theangryaron-d82f9ll.png

This is an absolutely ridiculous Pokemon that really shouldn’t have access to Skill Link. Not only does it share Adaptability to the rest of the team, but receiving Skill Link and Technician means that only 4x resists like Celesteela can actually switch into it. Currently, all playstyles are strapped for an answer to this thing. Defensive teams have to run Stamina, but oh wait! Skill Link is the main reason Unaware is so great right now because it completely invalidates that form of counterplay out the window. Pokemon that were previously thought of as metagame-defining like Dragonite are no longer as such, and it’s all because of Skill Link. Beedrill is not broken, but Skill Link probably is. I want to reach a council decision soon, and I’d like to hear discussion on both sides of the community.

I’d also like to dedicate this post to address something I’ve always wanted to, and I want to thank Yung Dramps for bringing it up.

Ideally, we’d want both. But let’s be honest, with a metagame of this caliber, we’re never going to get a completely balanced metagame. The goal of Shared Power has always been a fun, yet playable metagame. The dependency on matchups will always be there, but it’s up to us, the community, to minimize this. Being a matchup-based metagame is not a bad thing if there are enough interesting and competitive matchups to keep things fun. This very thing is what’s made Monotype such a fun and successful metagame, and with Monotype being my “main” metagame, I want to model my own metagame after this. Please bear with us since the metagame has existed for a little over a month and a half. Usually, it takes metagames quite a while before stabilizing, and the process that Shared Power has made in such a short time is very satisfying, at least to me.

Those are just my thoughts on things as of recent. With that being said, I’ve been having a blast playing this metagame and I want to continue balancing this metagame. If you love playing the meta as much as I do, sign up for the Unity tournament as signups end today. That’s all for now!
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I agree that while Beedrill is seriously threatening, it is not broken. I feel that with all the focus on abilities in this meta, a lot of people forget that plain old type counters can work as well. Sure, there is no ability that counters Unaware+Skill Link. But plenty of mons can actually power through Beedrill/Cloyster/Ambipom/Cincinno through type stat and type advantage, such as Klefki, Celesteela, and Skarmory, in addition to other steel and ghost types. I think we need to see a rise in natural bulk or other innovations to counter the Skill Link Unaware playstyle before deciding on banning it.

To be honest I think the easiest thing to ban right now is Regenerator. With it in place Stall vs Stall almost always turns into endless battles of patience. Furthermore it results in the auto-loss of any team who cannot out-damage Regen, which in reality is not easy to do with abilities like Multiscale+Magic Guard or Poison Heal. Any idea of balance in this meta is basically impossible because of it. Stall would still be a viable playstyle without it, but endless battles wouldn't happen.
 
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After playing a few more rounds... I honestly think, that Skill Link is a necessary evil and that Sturdy/ Magic Guard is the main problem here. Skill Link teams can be countered but usually the main problem with dealing with them is not the Skill Link itself, but the Sturdy/ Magic Guard and Priority prevention that comes with it.

I honestly think that if we ban Sturdy, it will also be MUCH easier to deal with those teams. I really think Sturdy should be banned from sharing as there is no consistent way of dealing with it, since the only abilities that counter it are Skill Link (which is up for debate here and the main answer to Sturdy in the first place) and Mold Breaker (which is banned from sharing). Alternatively, one could easily bypass Sturdy with Hazards, but Magic Guard nullifies this, emphasizing my second pint. This ability is just too much. An allrounder for everything: ignoring Hazards, ignoring Recoil Damage (Mind Blown), Ignoring Passive Damage etc.

After playing a lot of Games with different teams (but mainly offense), I come to the conclusion that Magic Guard is the problem here, which aids the Sturdy/ Multiscale mechanic that is in my opinion exploited right now. The main reason I see for this is that the indirect counter to this - being Mold Breaker - is banned from sharing.

Tl;dr: Magic Guard/ Sturdy/ Multiscale is the problem here and I think that something about these combinations should be done.
 
Exploudit said:
This meta looks fun! But isn't the team below a little unbeatable?
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Like, how do you beat Fluffy + Unaware + Regen? It even has Flash Fire so the opponent can't take advantage of Fluffy! You'd be inclined to use a special attacker to break through this, right? But Is there any Special Attacker Chansey doesn't wall without set up?

I think something has to be done to address this kind of team, cuz' it genuinely seems broken, before you say anything about Corrosion, keep in mind Chansey has Natural Cure, but even then, Poison Heal would also be a great option here. Mold Breaker is restricted, so it's impossible to ignore Unaware and Magic Bounce.

I know that this is all theorymonning, but I can't think of any broken strategy that would let me beat this type of team...
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Aye man, dont wanna burst yo bubble, but fluffy doesnt pass
 
I have played 100 games of this OM, and I'm pretty sure that magic guard has been in all of them, if not 95%. It opens the way for sturdy/multiscale offense teams to just instant sweep against lesser prepared teams, to the point that every recent battle I've been in has some form of skill link to combat the shenanigans. It's just too good at what it does, and what it does is everything.

No status damage, no weather damage, no hazard damage, no recoil damage, all of which are counters to the ever feared multiscale/sturdy teams. Any other ability that does these things (overcoat, magic bounce, poison heal, rock head) has some serious counterplay and opens up the path for this OM to be competitive. In all honesty, I believe that sturdy/multiscale is only as viable as it is purely based on the fact that magic guard exists.
 
JakeyChan said:
Does swift swim share?
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If you read the rules and description of the metagame at the start of this thread, you'll see all the abilities that have been banned from sharing

Also what is currently the view on status sweep teams? Like say guts+toxic boost+quick feet kinda thing? Cause I've been testing a team that seems to have been quite good.

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 96 HP / 156 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Facade
- Protect

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Sticky Web

Buzzwole @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Atk / 64 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Life
- Power-Up Punch
- Poison Jab

Bruxish @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Liquidation
- Ice Fang
- Aqua Jet

The combo of toxic boost + quick feet + beast boost is something I've really liked the look of recently. The zangoose set is designed so that you gain speed instead of attack after a swords dance into toxic boost+status+STAB boosted facade, which is all the damage you really need. CC ohkoes celesteela, and knock off is for ghosts. What I really like most about this team is that even if the opponent is running unaware, the boosts from the abilities aren't affected, and is more often than not still able to KO most things. Add dazzling, poison heal and sturdy to the mix, and you have yourself an unstoppable sweeper after it's first kill. Ursaring is for quick feet, giving the team that BIT more of speed to really allow zangoose or even itself to take off. Unfortunately, ursaring is so slow that there is no possible way for it to have a speed boosting set, which is why I chose protect. After quick feet though, ursaring still reaches 343 speed, which is pretty respectable. The only reason I chose shuckle as the sturdy mon, is that I needed something to help take special hits.

If there are any suggestions for this team let me know!
 
Hammerhead96 said:
Also what is currently the view on status sweep teams? Like say guts+toxic boost+quick feet kinda thing? Cause I've been testing a team that seems to have been quite good.

Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Toxic Boost
EVs: 96 HP / 156 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Ursaring @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Facade
- Protect

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Roost

Shuckle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infestation
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Sticky Web

Buzzwole @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 192 Atk / 64 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Leech Life
- Power-Up Punch
- Poison Jab

Bruxish @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Liquidation
- Ice Fang
- Aqua Jet

The combo of toxic boost + quick feet + beast boost is something I've really liked the look of recently. The zangoose set is designed so that you gain speed instead of attack after a swords dance into toxic boost+status+STAB boosted facade, which is all the damage you really need. CC ohkoes celesteela, and knock off is for ghosts. What I really like most about this team is that even if the opponent is running unaware, the boosts from the abilities aren't affected, and is more often than not still able to KO most things. Add dazzling, poison heal and sturdy to the mix, and you have yourself an unstoppable sweeper after it's first kill. Ursaring is for quick feet, giving the team that BIT more of speed to really allow zangoose or even itself to take off. Unfortunately, ursaring is so slow that there is no possible way for it to have a speed boosting set, which is why I chose protect. After quick feet though, ursaring still reaches 343 speed, which is pretty respectable. The only reason I chose shuckle as the sturdy mon, is that I needed something to help take special hits.

If there are any suggestions for this team let me know!
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Quick feet is banned form sharing
 
I just realised this as well, I know it wasn't before, but I hadn't realised until after I made the post.
Any suggestions for replacement abilities? Finding that quick feet can still work, but guts may be better overall.
 
Hammerhead96 said:
I just realised this as well, I know it wasn't before, but I hadn't realised until after I made the post.
Any suggestions for replacement abilities? Finding that quick feet can still work, but guts may be better overall.
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Throw a blaziken on there instead of ursaring, and make that your main sweeper, or replace it with a magic guard mon to help with the sturdy shenanigans
 
Updated my Kyurem-B team:

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Sleep Talk

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Breath
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Roost

Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Dark Pulse

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 92 HP / 164 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Signal Beam
- Calm Mind
- Recover

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
 
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Suggest banning regenerator.. jus thad a ridicouls battle where the opponent was literally just switching pokemon each round. Until pp is out or otherwise pp/time stalling
 
I don't see mega-beedrill as a broken mon... the problem is skill link+unaware as far as i am concerned. Yea we have like klefki that can tank a few hits or something like that, but that doesn't mean you can actually counter this thing (it's literally 2hko with cloyster hpump @+2). I'm pretty sure we either need to get rid of unaware (absurd stallbreaking power which is kind of ironic) or directly skill link. I do not see skill link as a broken ability though, it's more the combination of skill link+adaph+technician+unaware that makes the meta kinda unbalanced.


Anyway, I do think our objective must be balance. Let's say we have to ban 10 more abilities or mons before achieving that... we'll just have plenty more subpar abilities that actually become a valid choice. It's not like we are talking about 40-50 abilities, we have hundreds of them, i can't really see a problem with banning as much of them as it is required for a balanced metagame.
 
I found a way to give more fight against skill link. In conjuntion with pokemon like mega blaziken, doublade or klefki you can add physically defensive poliwrath or physically defensive jellicent and also azumarril. Water absorb is a good support against cloyster and their typing makes them resistent to almost every attack common skill link users have. Azumarril also provides grass inmunity, but he is not necesary unless you want to hardcounter skill link (heracross might be a problem if you dont have azumarril). This is very specific but it may work.
 
Unburden seems pretty fun. Azumarill and Unburden. Don't forget to throw in Gluttony. Maybe even a Starf Berry. In fact, maybe run Electric Seed on Koko teams...
 
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