the banned abilities are the restricted ones
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]
- Thread starter Haaku.
- Start date
- Status
Tbh, it's more than that. This is exactly why this meta is like, "another Ultimate-Z or Metagamiate" situation in the sense that it's no way to be balanced unless you ban a million things first. Note that I DO NOT recommend doing this but if we REALLY went all-out to balance things, we'll...
1. Ban Magic Guard + Innards Out
2. Ban Skill Link
3. Ban Poison Heal
4. Ban Magic Bounce. MB + Sturdy/Multiscale is not that different from MG + Sturdy/Multiscale and only breakable if you carry Moldy SR users (which is restricted) if Skill Link doesn't exist and people WILL complain about it.
5. Ban Starf Berry
6. A probable suspect of Kyub OR Contrary as there's no way to stop Draco-spamming Contrary Kyub.
7. A probable resuspect of Blaziken. Without all those above, it can sweep teams easily with Speed Boost + Power boosting Abilities
After PH ban, Triage will be nerfed but still needs to be monitored. Also you'll no longer carry Marvel Scale for defense boost.
Again, this is JUST if we went for "all-out-banning in order to make the meta as Balanced as possible" so I do not recommend this, at all.
Unburden isn't under the banned abilities...
Counts as a speed boosting ability.
I highly disagree. Magic Guard + Innards Out is the only thing that needs to be restricted. Magic Bounce is not an issue. The difference is, that against Magic Bounce you only need ONE Pokemon with Mold Breaker to place your Stealth Rocks, so that Sturdy/ Multiscale is dealt with. Against Magic Guard, basically ALL of your Pokemon need to have Mold Breaker/ Skill Link to bypass Sturdy/ Multiscale. This is why I sincerely think that Magic Guard is the problem here and not Magic Bounce/ Sturdy/ Multiscale.
In addition to that, Skill Link is NOT the problem here. After countless battles, I came to the realization that Skill Link + Dazzling/ Queenly Majestic is not the issue, but the Magic Guard + Sturdy on top of that. Without the MG + Sturdy, it is quite easy to deal with Skill Link.
Poison heal is also no problem, when you have Stall-/ Wallbreakers (M-Pinsir with Crawdaunt and Barbaracle breaks through any wall).
Starf Berry I think is really uncompetitive. You randomly increase 1 stat by two stages (including evasion, which is the main problem). If they have Sticky Hold (which most GOOD teams have), you cannot even knock the item off...
Kyurem is not really a problem, any scarfer deals with it.
I don't know about Blazicken, the ones I faced, didn't have Dazzling, so M-Pinsir's Feint broke their Protect.
I also don't think, that we should aim a "balanced" Meta, as this is a broken set-up Meta and we needed dozens of bans and restrictions to make that happen. But I also strongly oppose the way the Meta is right now: decided by the match-up. In almost all battles, I could see by the initial match-up if I can win or not. I either have the correct counter to break my opponents team or I don't. The way I play is almost irrelevant. And I think that this is a problem which should be tackled.
Last edited:
Magicarp is broken, especially receiving support from slaking, reggigas and archeops
Oh god this is cancer:
Ambipom @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Lycanium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Drill Run
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
Cinccino @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast
- U-turn
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Rock Tomb
- Crunch
- Superpower
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Pin Missile
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
Ambipom @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
Lycanroc-Dusk @ Lycanium Z
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Accelerock
- Drill Run
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 76 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance
Cinccino @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast
- U-turn
Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Rock Tomb
- Crunch
- Superpower
Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Pin Missile
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
I like starf berry it forces you to be creative and brings unpopular abilities into the meta for our use.
Unerve & Infiltrator.
Heres a replay of my stomping a starfy boi with unerve.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-700691181
Aldo my friend Bdimaio used infiltrator spiritomb to hit sub mon on his team.
I beleive this meta needs to be as creative as possible with the wide assort of abilities we have acces to.
Copied your team just now to test it. Game number 2 starts and my opponent has literally the same team xD
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7sharedpower-700708985 your team is a success two people have already started to copy it.
The current biggest problem in the metagame is Skill Link in my opinion and the removal of this ability might just be what the metagame needs to get into a stable state.
This is an absolutely ridiculous Pokemon that really shouldn’t have access to Skill Link. Not only does it share Adaptability to the rest of the team, but receiving Skill Link and Technician means that only 4x resists like Celesteela can actually switch into it. Currently, all playstyles are strapped for an answer to this thing. Defensive teams have to run Stamina, but oh wait! Skill Link is the main reason Unaware is so great right now because it completely invalidates that form of counterplay out the window. Pokemon that were previously thought of as metagame-defining like Dragonite are no longer as such, and it’s all because of Skill Link. Beedrill is not broken, but Skill Link probably is. I want to reach a council decision soon, and I’d like to hear discussion on both sides of the community.
I’d also like to dedicate this post to address something I’ve always wanted to, and I want to thank Yung Dramps for bringing it up.
Ideally, we’d want both. But let’s be honest, with a metagame of this caliber, we’re never going to get a completely balanced metagame. The goal of Shared Power has always been a fun, yet playable metagame. The dependency on matchups will always be there, but it’s up to us, the community, to minimize this. Being a matchup-based metagame is not a bad thing if there are enough interesting and competitive matchups to keep things fun. This very thing is what’s made Monotype such a fun and successful metagame, and with Monotype being my “main” metagame, I want to model my own metagame after this. Please bear with us since the metagame has existed for a little over a month and a half. Usually, it takes metagames quite a while before stabilizing, and the process that Shared Power has made in such a short time is very satisfying, at least to me.
Those are just my thoughts on things as of recent. With that being said, I’ve been having a blast playing this metagame and I want to continue balancing this metagame. If you love playing the meta as much as I do, sign up for the Unity tournament as signups end today. That’s all for now!
Mega Beedrill is very predictable because pretty much every single player who uses it will throw it first. I can deal with it 90% of the time on the first turn with a strong Choice Scarfer. Same goes for the Skill Link mons. Cloyster with can be a major threat after one Shell Smash, but mons like Scarf Alakazam can deal with them.
From a battle I had before with some user, I think the problem comes in the synergy, that is, when they share BOTH Sturdy & Psychic Surge/Dazzling/Queenly Majesty along with Skill Link. That's the only time I remember Mega Beedrill killing my Scarf mon because of Knock Off + U-turn (not that I'm high on the ladder, though). It had Skill Link Pin Missile and Magic Guard.
If you want to find better answers to those, I think weather offense might beat them. I know by experience my rain team has outsped both scarfers and Mega Beedrill before. I mean, even my troll Magikarp beated a Victini with 80% of its HP left and a Contrary V-Create boost with a single Hydro Pump, so perhaps weather mons could be an answer to them (maybe along with Mold Breaker to prevent Sturdy?). And unlike Skill Linkers, weather mons can be halted by Cloud Nine, and they aren't used much (I barely see weather teams in here).
At least I don't think Mega Beedrill should be banned. And BTW, did anyone test Prankster physical walls against them? Most of these are resisted by Steel types.
Ah, so you were my opponent xD
I don't believe Skill Link should be banned because of 1 reason: Steel types, especially Doublade. Now, a Skill Link team must have a Skill Link user, typically Cloyster, and a Technician user, typically Breloom, Ambipom, or Cincinno. Then they often run Mega Beedrill, and also require an anti priority mon as well as an Unaware mon. That makes 5 slots. Cloyster often needs a sash or Sturdy, which can take up another slot and often is supported by a Magic Guard or Magic Bounce mon. Overall, they have few answers for steel types such as Doublade. Now, Doublade is becoming extremely common on Durant teams. It deals extremely well even with boosted mons, resisting or being immune to all but 3 multihit moves (Bonemerang, Bone Rush, and Water Shuriken). And even a super effective hit can't kill it with its high Defense. Look at this calc: +3 252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 276-326 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO. That's a potentially Fell Stinger boosted Mega Beedrill with a super effective high power move that still can't kill Doublade. Now, LO Hydro Pump from Cloyster does do a lot to Doublade, but that requires Mguard and an item instead of Focus Sash, which means you need Sturdy, which gives you only 2 slots after Skill Link and Technician, meaning you have to choose 2 out of Dazzling, Unaware, and Mega Beedrill.
I've only started playing this meta a day or two ago and I already made it to the top of the ladder
At first I was using fun stuff, like contrary webs and toxic orb teams. However, during most of my laddering to get to this point, I was using this cancerous team that I built this morning.
https://hastebin.com/ihogulosih.diff
It's a multiscale semi stall that is almost impossible to break without mold breaker, which is restricted. The only losses I've gotten with this team are when I misplay horribly or when I forfeit because I don't want to waste my time pp stalling. Contrary Kyurem-B has a field day against it, but oddly enough I haven't faced any sofar with this team. Stall like this is broken, and something needs to be banned. A mediocre player with barely any experience in the format shouldn't be able to make it to the top of the ladder with something he theorymonned several hours earlier.
At first I was using fun stuff, like contrary webs and toxic orb teams. However, during most of my laddering to get to this point, I was using this cancerous team that I built this morning.
https://hastebin.com/ihogulosih.diff
It's a multiscale semi stall that is almost impossible to break without mold breaker, which is restricted. The only losses I've gotten with this team are when I misplay horribly or when I forfeit because I don't want to waste my time pp stalling. Contrary Kyurem-B has a field day against it, but oddly enough I haven't faced any sofar with this team. Stall like this is broken, and something needs to be banned. A mediocre player with barely any experience in the format shouldn't be able to make it to the top of the ladder with something he theorymonned several hours earlier.
You could set 23 HP IVs so that 4×Leftovers + 3×Volt Absorb gives you full recovery. (Or 32 HP EVs works, if you can afford them.)
Interesting news everyone!
On February 8 (Tomorrow!) at 6:00 PM EST (GMT -5) the OM room will be hosting a Shared Power tournament with experimental bans and unbans in order to give us a taste as to how the metagame will look in practice. These bans are:
Be sure to not miss it! It will definitely give us a sense of direction as to where we should go with this metagame. That’s all I wanted to say and good luck to those participating! :)
On February 8 (Tomorrow!) at 6:00 PM EST (GMT -5) the OM room will be hosting a Shared Power tournament with experimental bans and unbans in order to give us a taste as to how the metagame will look in practice. These bans are:
- Multiscale
- Sturdy
- Skill Link
- Starf Berry
Be sure to not miss it! It will definitely give us a sense of direction as to where we should go with this metagame. That’s all I wanted to say and good luck to those participating! :)
Last edited:
That sounds like a great idea and I am very thankful for that, but would it be possible to swap one of Sturdy/ Multiscale for Magic Guard instead?
Magic bounce can substitute for magic guard, and the meta would probably be too centralized around hazards if sturdy/multiscale was still around without an ability to keep mons at full.
Personally I'm happy that we're suspecting Multiscale and Sturdy > Magic Guard.
Sure Magic Guard makes the former two as strong as they are so it's a two birds one stone sort of thing, but if Magic Guard is banned those abilities will just be run with Magic Bounce, and no, forcing every team to run Mold Breaker SR does not make that any better. So you'd probably end up banning two abilities anyway.
Despite Magic Guard/Bounce supporting them, it is Multiscale and Sturdy that are actually cancerous to play against, and simply do what they do, where as without them Magic Guard and Bounce would still be strong yet balanced abilities for avoiding chip as well as recoil for the former and Taunt the latter. Banning Magic Bounce has much further repercussions on the meta and dumpsters a lot more balanced builds such as Gale Wings.
Sure Magic Guard makes the former two as strong as they are so it's a two birds one stone sort of thing, but if Magic Guard is banned those abilities will just be run with Magic Bounce, and no, forcing every team to run Mold Breaker SR does not make that any better. So you'd probably end up banning two abilities anyway.
Despite Magic Guard/Bounce supporting them, it is Multiscale and Sturdy that are actually cancerous to play against, and simply do what they do, where as without them Magic Guard and Bounce would still be strong yet balanced abilities for avoiding chip as well as recoil for the former and Taunt the latter. Banning Magic Bounce has much further repercussions on the meta and dumpsters a lot more balanced builds such as Gale Wings.
why is that literally the same mons as my stall team i've been using for almost a week but with one mon that's different.... you sure you built this?
Great idea. I think Starf Berry deserves a ban as it has tools to beat literally any team EXCEPT a team with an Unnerve mon. (Despite how fun of a Gimmick I think it is.)
I sure can't wait for Magic Guard Focus Sash spam. That's totally not going to be as cancerous as Sturdy/Multiscale+Magic Guard.
At least that comes at the cost of a scarf/life orb/Z-crystal/etc on those mons and you still won't have megas with sturdy. Especially offensive powerhouses like pin missile mega bedrill, which basically requires 2 teammates that can either tank a hit from it or outspeed it then hit it hard.
- Status