Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers Thread (read the op before posting a thread)

When it comes to stall, you're probably better off using Unaware Clef as your wish passer since it works better with protect and leftovers. Although Chansey may pass bigger wishes, it doesn't like taking passive damage from Sandstorm or status while using a two turn recovery move.

Also, using a mon with no way of dealing damage is almost always a bad idea especially in ladder where you often play the same players as they can easily set up on it once they figure out the set.
 
Using Chansey without Seismic Toss is always a bad idea, but you can fit Wish through other means, which are completely acceptable. I would not advise using Alolan Muk, but if you do then I think that set would not be optimal and rather one focused on removing problematic special attackers would be better to focus on.
I was going to use Muk-A primarily because I'm having a hard time finding a reliable Blace counter. Clefable needs a lot of SpD to avoid the 2HKO from specs blace, and the 2HKO from ghostium z and flamethrower, to the point that it can't reliably check Hawlucha, Mega Loppuny, and Mega Heracross. Chansey can't do anything to Blace, and Pyukumuku is in the same boat as Clefable (and it also relies on spite because of sub, and you can't trap Blace).

Do you have any better suggestions? I was thinking of Hydreigon, since it doubles as a Heatran check, but it is hard to fit on stall (Heatran is usually checked by Mew or Moltres, which check Lele and Kartana respectively).
 
I was going to use Muk-A primarily because I'm having a hard time finding a reliable Blace counter. Clefable needs a lot of SpD to avoid the 2HKO from specs blace, and the 2HKO from ghostium z and flamethrower, to the point that it can't reliably check Hawlucha, Mega Loppuny, and Mega Heracross. Chansey can't do anything to Blace, and Pyukumuku is in the same boat as Clefable (and it also relies on spite because of sub, and you can't trap Blace).

Do you have any better suggestions? I was thinking of Hydreigon, since it doubles as a Heatran check, but it is hard to fit on stall (Heatran is usually checked by Mew or Moltres, which check Lele and Kartana respectively).
Blace kinda does a number on stall in general. Hydreigon is a good check to it that also helps vs. opposing stall matchups. If it can be used I feel like Tyranitar could also provide some support to your team while also trapping Blace. It'd be easier to help if we knew your team, btw. Admittedly, stall is not my strong suit when building.
 
I was going to use Muk-A primarily because I'm having a hard time finding a reliable Blace counter. Clefable needs a lot of SpD to avoid the 2HKO from specs blace, and the 2HKO from ghostium z and flamethrower, to the point that it can't reliably check Hawlucha, Mega Loppuny, and Mega Heracross. Chansey can't do anything to Blace, and Pyukumuku is in the same boat as Clefable (and it also relies on spite because of sub, and you can't trap Blace).

Do you have any better suggestions? I was thinking of Hydreigon, since it doubles as a Heatran check, but it is hard to fit on stall (Heatran is usually checked by Mew or Moltres, which check Lele and Kartana respectively).
The thing is even the sub Calm Mind Set destroys the standard Chansey set since it can't touch it and Blacepheon can just set up on it. Blacepheon just does really well against stall but I feel Unaware Clefable can at least stand a chance after Blacepheon loses loses it's Z crystal although it can still lose to sp def drops from Shadow ball.

I run a Clef set with a Calm nature and 40 Sp def to stall out Specs Koko but It also does decently well against Blacepheon as long as you Protect on the Z crystal and still does a decent job at checking Lucha and Lopunny.
 
Last edited:
I was going to use Muk-A primarily because I'm having a hard time finding a reliable Blace counter. Clefable needs a lot of SpD to avoid the 2HKO from specs blace, and the 2HKO from ghostium z and flamethrower, to the point that it can't reliably check Hawlucha, Mega Loppuny, and Mega Heracross. Chansey can't do anything to Blace, and Pyukumuku is in the same boat as Clefable (and it also relies on spite because of sub, and you can't trap Blace).

Do you have any better suggestions? I was thinking of Hydreigon, since it doubles as a Heatran check, but it is hard to fit on stall (Heatran is usually checked by Mew or Moltres, which check Lele and Kartana respectively).
SpDef Kommo-o doubles as a Blace and Tran check, as well as an MGyara check, Rocker and something that needs Wish. Just watch for Specs Psychic / Speedboosting CM’s NEN, but Protect lets you play around that and Choiced Lele.
 
Other than Toxapex, what other Pokemon go well with the Double Dance Reuniclus set?
Ferrothorn, Ashgren, Defensive Lando, etc. With DDReun you want to have residual damage through toxic, spikes and Rocks. Any pokemon that can consistently provide this are good parteners. You may also want ways to lure in and beat strong dark types like Tyranitar or Ash Gren, which are able to wall you and threaten you if unboosted or with a crit.
 
Genuine question
Is it worth coming back to the game at this point lol
"Worth it" is subjective, lol. Idk about coming back, but the meta seems healthier and more competitive than when I first started. At this point it may be better to just wait for Gen 8 to come out.
 
Mega gyarados in sand teams?
I was thinking use it with Z giga impact Excadrill, as it can set up in things that annoy exca like celesteela, skarmory and ew locked Landorus-Therian, and improve the exca stall matchup with mold breaker taunt, and check a ash ninja in a pinch

Or the use of the gyara is more stricted to HO?
 
Mega gyarados in sand teams?
I was thinking use it with Z giga impact Excadrill, as it can set up in things that annoy exca like celesteela, skarmory and ew locked Landorus-Therian, and improve the exca stall matchup with mold breaker taunt, and check a ash ninja in a pinch

Or the use of the gyara is more stricted to HO?
No one's saying you shouldn't try, but generally there are more popular choices for Sand setup sweepers. For instance, Mega Tyranitar can set up sand, Rocks, lure threats like Skarm or Lando by running special moves, or set up with DD. Normal Tyranitar can also break Exca cheks by hitting Crunch or Stone Edge an appropriate number of times while also checking SpDef powerhouses like Chansey. Mega Garchomp is a super popular sand option to pair with these mons because it has no trouble running Fire/Dragon special coverage with EQ and SE to drill through a huge portion of the meta.

M-Gyarados is cool because it can run Taunt to beat some enemies and doesn't get run over by Ash-Gren, but its need for hazard support, lack of passive healing, and need for a couple of setup turns can be disappointing unless it has good matchup and a great chance to set up. It also faces moveset issues: It obviously wants 2 Stabs but needs EQ to guarantee a +1 OHKO against Rotom-W. Without Crunch it can't beat Lati@s, Tangrowth, or Slowbro, without Waterfall it can't break Lando or use that 20% flinch to beat random shit like Zapdos. And of course, without Sub/Taunt it's susceptible to status. On sand in particular, it can run into problems with Tapu Bulu, who will weaken Exca's EQs, check Tyranitar/Hippowdon, and help teammates like Heatran by providing them with extra healing or, more worrilying for Gyara, a boosted Z-Grass attack.

I say give it a try even if it's unconventional - you've just got to build your team to be able to handle the mons that Exca and Gyarados need to beat in order to pull off a sweep.
 
What caused starmie to fall out of favor and drop to UU? Is it just completely outclassed by gren even tho it has rapid spin?
 
When looking through the threads, I saw multiple people asking for a potential Darkrai unban to OU at the start of the generation due to the Dark Void nerf.

I couldn't find a clear answer on if unbanning it was ever considered, and if it were, why it wasn't unbanned in the end.

I'm not trying to spark discussion to potentially unban it at the end of the generation but I'm genuinely interested in how some of you would think it's pro's (Weavile Speed tier, Sleep, Nasty Plot, Insane Coverage moves that abuse Z, ...) would weigh out against his cons (read: checks).

Anyone?
 
When looking through the threads, I saw multiple people asking for a potential Darkrai unban to OU at the start of the generation due to the Dark Void nerf.

I couldn't find a clear answer on if unbanning it was ever considered, and if it were, why it wasn't unbanned in the end.

I'm not trying to spark discussion to potentially unban it at the end of the generation but I'm genuinely interested in how some of you would think it's pro's (Weavile Speed tier, Sleep, Nasty Plot, Insane Coverage moves that abuse Z, ...) would weigh out against his cons (read: checks).

Anyone?
Replace "sleep" with "good bulk by OU standards" and I'm pretty sure you have your answer.
 
So, when a pokemon that does have OU analysis is deemed unviable, is it possible to still find its analysis that was removed?
 
Any solid checks to moldbreaker Excadrill (stealth rock, toxic)? I've had no luck keeping rocks off the field against this mon.
 
I was going to use Muk-A primarily because I'm having a hard time finding a reliable Blace counter. Clefable needs a lot of SpD to avoid the 2HKO from specs blace, and the 2HKO from ghostium z and flamethrower, to the point that it can't reliably check Hawlucha, Mega Loppuny, and Mega Heracross. Chansey can't do anything to Blace, and Pyukumuku is in the same boat as Clefable (and it also relies on spite because of sub, and you can't trap Blace).

Do you have any better suggestions? I was thinking of Hydreigon, since it doubles as a Heatran check, but it is hard to fit on stall (Heatran is usually checked by Mew or Moltres, which check Lele and Kartana respectively).
If you have trouble against Blacephalon, you can use Psywave with Chansey instead of Seismic Toss .
 
If you have trouble against Blacephalon, you can use Psywave with Chansey instead of Seismic Toss .
I actually have a team with such a Chansey that I haven't used yet. The problem is that psywave is incompatible with natural cure, and there have often been times where I had to use natural cure to stall out toxic pp, and sometimes to remove stray freezes from LOKB. I'm going to test it out at some point, but so far recycle Muk-A has proven useful, even outside of the Blace matchup.
 
Any solid checks to moldbreaker Excadrill (stealth rock, toxic)? I've had no luck keeping rocks off the field against this mon.
Directly from his analysis:
"Bulky Flying-types: Skarmory completely walls every variant of Excadrill. Other bulky Flying-types, such as Landorus-T and Celesteela, can cause serious problems for Sand Rush Excadrill. Celesteela in particular is very difficult to wear down due to its common combination of Leech Seed, Leftovers, and Protect."
 
Any solid checks to moldbreaker Excadrill (stealth rock, toxic)? I've had no luck keeping rocks off the field against this mon.
Celesteela is the most viable option, though it lacks Defog. Skarmory can defog but is not as useful as Celesteela since it's not specially defensive at all.

Gliscor can be a good option since it eats Toxic and can Defog rocks off the field. Also helps against other popular rockers like Heatran or Ferrothorn neither of whom can wear it down significantly. Unfortunately, it's not any good against Garchomp or other offensive rock-setters and must be careful against highly offensive teams.

Scizor can be a good check as well, though without Defog it's hindered, and most Scizor these days opt to be more specially-defensive SD oriented rather than the old classic +Def with Defog. Impish Scizor struggles to fit into this tier without Zygarde gone and Tapu Bulu less popular than it once was.

Clefable can actually check Exca variants that don't run Iron Head - obviously that's risky because IH can damage you. However, given the popularity of flying type Defoggers and Rotom-W, I'd say Rock Tomb is the superior 4th moveslot choice. So Clefable can just spam Wish+Moonblast to wear it down.

Landorus-T or Zapdos can scare it out, but I find them frustrating since Toxic or Rock Tomb can quickly wear either down with the presence of Rocks - which is exactly the point of running Excadrill over another rocker who wouldn't do as good of a job as luring these mons in.
 
Did the council ever consider banning z moves? Can smogon even ban a main mechanic if they wanted to or does that go against the "philosphy" ?
 

Colonel M

L I E S
is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
Did the council ever consider banning z moves? Can smogon even ban a main mechanic if they wanted to or does that go against the "philosphy" ?
For the most part it has been an accepted mechanic and nothing has been extensively discussed or done since this thread.

Your Z Move overlords are here to stay.

No mechanic is necessarily above Smogon ruling, but cases like Z Moves have to be looked at as to whether the issue involves individual Pokemon or the items themselves. Under a lot of circumstances, it's usually the former.
 

Tramuntana

formerly SJMistery
Why is Iron Head suggested on Magearna? It doesn't deal anywhere close to enough damage to 2HKO defensive fairy types. Clefable in particular can't be defeated even with a crit on the second hit.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top