Any chance we can get a VR and metagame thread soon? I'd really like to discuss Necrozma's impact on the meta.
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Resource Simple Questions, Simple Answers
- Thread starter Fireburn
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They're aiming for the 15th.
If sleep + trapping ability is banned on the basis that it violates sleep clause, why is the combination of accuracy-reducing move and trapping ability not also banned, given that it violates the evasion clause in exactly the same way by removing counter-play? Using multiple trappers in this way is effectively replicating evasion + baton pass (which I seem to recall was the most broken application of evasion moves) and can easily result in wins with no skill or interactivity.
I appreciate that it's not as easy to abuse as something like hypnosis Gengar, but I don't think that's relevant to a competitiveness argument.
I appreciate that it's not as easy to abuse as something like hypnosis Gengar, but I don't think that's relevant to a competitiveness argument.
Is there a chance that DW Necrozma will be dropped to OU? I feel like it can be a descent mon in OU just like Kyurem Black.
That is a question that would be more accurate to OU's simple question thread, but to respond quickly:
The council is not considering dropping anything until we have a much more well established meta. Not only that, but comparing to Kyurem-B is really inaccurate
DW Necro is more close to a Hoopa-u without the lack of defenses on Hoopa-u
It has an analysis because people liked it in early SM and no one has gotten around to removing the SM analysis despite the VR council deeming it unviable. If I remember correctly, there were still a bunch of unviable Pokemon in ORAS that had their analyses carry over from XY. I and a couple other people helped to delete these analyses page by page, but it did take a little while.
E: I actually just got done typing at Nayrz about this sort of thing and he thinks the decisions on Pokemon like Slowbro and Tapu Koko are still up for debate by the Ubers Quality Control team. We'll see where Slowbro ends up even though I don't like it much myself.
E: I actually just got done typing at Nayrz about this sort of thing and he thinks the decisions on Pokemon like Slowbro and Tapu Koko are still up for debate by the Ubers Quality Control team. We'll see where Slowbro ends up even though I don't like it much myself.
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Why is Mega Blaziken better than regular Blaziken? Regular hits harder with LO and can use Z move?
The mega is faster, so it doesn't have to waste a move slot for using protect unlike regular blaziken, which has a really bad 80 speed. It's also a bit bulkier, but i guess that doesn't matter.
I just read "The Unviable Ubers: D-Rank" (an excellent text in passing) and it gave me an idea: could we test in Overused a "small Uber" per month?
Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors
This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU
What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot
In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015
Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable). Maybe this proposal has more place in the OU's forum
Let me explain: the meta USUM in OU is probably the one that has changed the least compared to the previous one (the meta SM). Between XY and ORAS, we had 20 mega-evolution. Between BW and BW2, the geniuses, Kyurem and Keldeo have had new forms. By cons between SM and USUM, not much: 2 ultra-beasts (I do not count Naganadel), new defogers and some rare move tutors
This means that Landorus-T, tapus, Magearna, Toxapex, Greninja, UCs, or Zygarde will remain top-tier (from December 2016 to the end of 2019 probably, when we will be in the 8th generation). I do not dispute their power (and therefore their place in OU) but their excessive centralization in the meta makes the Overused 7G particularly repetitive and tiresome (even more so than in 6G, where we could still succeed with original teams or gimmicks ). You only have to see the large number of Borderlines: many excellent pokemons that are unusable in OU
What is a "little Uber"? It is these pokémons never played in Uber and which are below 3,5% of uses. I have been watching the Uber's uses since July 2017 (the "Marshadow meta") and I made a list of banned pokémons never used:
* Mega-Kangaskhan
* Blaziken
* Groudon
* Deoxys-N and Deoxys-D
* Palkia
* Darkrai
* Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Arceus-Ice, Arceus-Psychic and Arceus-Rock
* Reshiram and Zekrom
* Landorus
* Genesect
There are also pokemons played more often and that stayed some time in OU:
* Deoxys-S
* Aegislash
* Mega-Lucario
* Mega-Metagross
* Pheromosa
* Shadow Tag (I'm talking about Wobbuffet, Gothitelle with rest is way too strong)
Of course since the arrival of USUM and Necrozma (pending the uses), this list is likely to change a lot
In order to change a little the meta OU and explode existing patterns, we could try to introduce a "little Uber" (the duration of a week seems reasonable). If the latter is indeed too strong, it's quickban and we talk more. If, on the other hand, it happens to have a certain number of checks and counters that can contain it, this pokemon will be possibly suspect-test (and if the quorum is negative, it will be able to remain in Overused). This was done (somehow) in Undersused with Azumarill, Serperior and Scolipede. I even believe that Aegislash was still suspect-test in May 2015
Of course, Aegislash and Landorus (I do not count Power Construct) have already been quickbans at the beginning of SM. But it was at a time when he had a lot less mega-pokémons (it costs nothing to re-test). Sorry in any case for my bad English (I hope to be understandable). Maybe this proposal has more place in the OU's forum
Ubers has no say in the tiering of OU, so we can't do anything on these lines. It's up to the OU council to decide what they think can be retested for OU.
These kind of ideas have been brought up before (here and in OU), and I'm sure the OU council is fully aware and will retest something when they think there's a deserving candidate.
Ah ok SparksBlade, I post the question on the right forum. Thank you for your answer
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-681677889
My opp had an Arceus-Water that could use Judgment against Primal Groudon. Doesn't Arceus have to hold a plate to change forms? Or is Judgment unaffected by Desolate Land (in that case: why didn't it hit Groudon SE)?
My opp had an Arceus-Water that could use Judgment against Primal Groudon. Doesn't Arceus have to hold a plate to change forms? Or is Judgment unaffected by Desolate Land (in that case: why didn't it hit Groudon SE)?
Ignore me, idk what I’m talking about
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Fanyfan is incorrect, your opponent was using a waterceus. However, it was a waterceus holding a Z Crystal, which does change Arceus' type in Gen 7, but doesn't affect judgement.
In other words, that was a normal type Judgement like your opponent said, which is why it hit Pdon and was resisted by Excadrill.
Is there a reason Physical Pogre is the first set on the analysis? Is it that much better than CM? (Sorry if dumb question, I'm not very knowledgeable with Ubers)
It 2HKOes groudon with earthquake
Tryna learn the tier and I got a few questions
How’d Mega Luke drop down to B last I remember it was high A’s? Would you even consider it worth using on HO rn?
What’s lando T’s niche in the tier?
Why is Naga so high? Does the Nasty Plot Speed Boost set nearly as destructive as it was in Ou?
Are Metagross, phero, lando I, blaziken, wob, bad arceus forms, genesect, regular groudon, Deo D and N, Zekrom, Reshi, Palkia and Darkrai ever worth using?
How’d Mega Luke drop down to B last I remember it was high A’s? Would you even consider it worth using on HO rn?
What’s lando T’s niche in the tier?
Why is Naga so high? Does the Nasty Plot Speed Boost set nearly as destructive as it was in Ou?
Are Metagross, phero, lando I, blaziken, wob, bad arceus forms, genesect, regular groudon, Deo D and N, Zekrom, Reshi, Palkia and Darkrai ever worth using?
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Are there any viable choice scarf users in Ubers that aren't Yveltal or Xerneas?
Mega Lucario was A in SM for checking Ekiller and Xerneas and solo’ing stall. In USM, Ekiller is unviable, Xerneas is better offensively checked by Necrozma DM, and stall is rarer. Therefore it is a poor choice for a Mega outside of Webs which in itself dropped in viability as a play-style. It is not worth considering on HO as Necrozma DM outclasses it.
Lando-T’s niche in the tier is as a SR user on Webs.
Naganadel’s current placement in the rankings is incorrectly high. Although seemingly threatening in a vacuum, it adds no team synergy aside from abosrbing the rare TSpikes, both due to its poor bulk and typing. Therefore, your question is inherently flawed and thereby unanswerable.
Yes, of those mentioned, two are worth using: Zekrom and Wobbuffet. The former is threatening when paired with Tapu Koko; under Electric Terrain, if you switch Zekrom in safely, something will die. The latter provides unique and useful support in a tier focused on bulky offense, and can act as an emergency answer to a plethora of threats in the tier; try pairing it with set-up sweepers.
Now that we have the new sprites on Showdown, here are the cries of USUM pokemons:
* Necrozma-Dusk Mane
* Necrozma-Dawn Wings
* Ultra Necrozma
* Poipole
* Naganadel
* Stakataka
* Blacephalon
* Lycanroc-Dusk
I also noticed 2 missing cries: Zygarde-Complete after Power Construct and Wishiwashi-School (when he dies in this form)
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Before gen 7 it was fully accurate, and confusion had 50% activation. Prankster which was paired with it also affected Dark-types back then, so Pokemon like Klefki (swagkeys) could make situations where they were likelier than not to kill stuff and where matches were decided by RNG, so even Ubers had to ban it.
Lots of people discussed un-banning Swagger after it was so badly nerfed in gen 7, but the only tier that actually tried it was Ubers. Not sure it would still be broken in other places after the nerfs, but tiers without the minimalistic banning policy of ubers saw no value in checking.
Edit: According to the next poster it was basically unbanned everywhere, shows how much I know about non-ubers lol.
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