Skillmons [Coming back soon™]

So I've had some ideas regarding a similar mod that i want to add here:

1. Jump Kick and High Jump Kick:

Jump Kick and High Jump Kick still need some kind of spam-punishment in my opinion, as just making them 95/100 and 117/100-Moves without any negative aspects would outclass even close combat in term of being broken (Mega-Medicham or Hawlucha could just spam HJK even more than in normal OU) which brings me to an idea that would work somewhat like this: Jump Kick and HJK become 100/100 and 130/100-moves with the following effect: Using one of those moves causes the user to stagger (applying a debuff). Using one of those moves again while staggering causes the user to crash after the attack, dealing 50% of his maximum hp in damage to himself while also removing the staggering-debuff (the attack would still be executed regularly though). Switching out removes staggering for the user. The idea is to keep those moves as high-powered and usable to deal great amount of damage as they are in the normal game but also adding some suicidal risk to spamming them (just that you can actually see when you have overdone it instead of some "it didn't miss the last 5 times maybe it's risky to use it again"). Also using the move sparingly and also once a while and with a switch between it stays completely without any risks. I think that is the best way to keep the "spirit" of the original moves while removing any luck from them.

Some details and ideas about this idea:
  • Using Protect or a Ghost-Type will deny the damage but still apply any staggering effects. So hitting a ghost/protect while staggering would apply the 50%-damage. Alternatively, missing the attack thanks to a shield or ghost could still deal the damage to the user regardless of staggering (as there was originally no luck involved anyways).
  • I had another idea in which staggering would also halve the damage the attack dealt (to compensate for the fact that you still have a never missing 130 bp attack), but for this the power of hjk should become 140 imo.
  • Also i had an idea where the hjk while staggering would become a 100% recoil-move (this would also somewhat justify the reckless-boost). I guess this also gives some strategic value to it (like predict the skarm- or slowbro-switchin and use it to hjk without dealing that much damage to yourself and get rid of the staggering or throw in a high-hp-mon (chansey or blissey ftw) to make the opponent suicide with his hjk). However i think this would go to far away from the original hjk.
  • Just making it a recoil-move would destroy the idea behind the move imo.
  • A counter like burn or paralysis where every use of the move would add 10 points (5 for jump kick) wouldn't make THAT much sense in term of regulating the move imo as 9 hjks are already insanely powerful and you'd rarely need more. It's basically just like HJK becomes a 9 PP-Move.
  • Potentially making every second use of the move deal the damage to the user where the move normally only has a 10% chance to do so might seem harsh a bit, but in the normal game, it is completely possible to miss every other use of the move or even every use of the move in one battle, while hjk can also never miss and hit 16 times in a row. With the option to remove staggering by switching out, one can also hit normally with all 16 uses of hjk. He just has to make good use of the move and not just trust on pretty good luck.

2. The item Focus Band:

This item has somewhat use as a focus sash that can still be used even if the user isn't at full hp to survive direct damage with 1 hp. However, it relied completely on luck (but with such a low chance, that it was actually useless instead of broken). So i had some ideas to remake the focus band into a focus sash that's usable even without full hp without taking focus sashes spot, being broken or something like that. Here are my ideas:

  • The Focus Band becomes an actual opposite of the Focus Sash: The user will survive an attack with 1 hp but ONLY if he has suffered prior damage. For this to not be broken, it would work something like this: Suffering damage from an attack, status, weather, hazards or any other source while at full health would "activate" the Focus Band. Taking fatal damage with an activated Focus Band would consume the item but let the user survive with 1 hp. Variations to this would be:
  1. The Focus Band would be deactivated when the user switches and he needs to take damage again to reactivate it after coming back.
  2. The Focus Band shows itself in the form of a buff when activated so the opponent will always be fully aware what's coming for him (to avoid TOO nasty surprises).
  3. The Focus Band is not consumed after letting the user take an attack but will deactivate itself. The user would need to heal back to higher HP and survive another round of damage to reactivate the band. This would be more in line with the original item as that one isn't consumed as well. This Focus Band could be of great use to Drain Punch or Giga Drain users or could work well together with something like Wish + Baton Pass Sylveon to be used more than once in a match.
  4. This would be the biggest nerf to this version of the item: After taking damage (through any possible way), the focus band would grant the user the endure-status for the next turn except the user already has the endure-status. This would mean the focus band could protect against 2hko's, 1hko's after stealth rocks etc. but nothing more, as a 3hko would mean the first hit activates the band, the second hit would be during the endure-status and after it ends, the 3rd hit would make the KO. However, this version would be the only actual protection against multi-hit-moves, as the endure-status blocks them. If this Focus Band is consumed after use or is a "protection every second turn"-item is another thing.
  • The Focus Band lets the user survive a fatal blow with 1 hp and is consumed afterwards. However, no status moves are possible while holding a Focus Band. This means the Focus Band will not take away the spot of the Focus Sash in Pokémon like Lead-Mamoswine but creates a subgenre of revenge-killers that would work like Magic Guard Focus Sash Alakazam: The one-use-revenge-killer that doesn't completely rely on speed but survives a hit from any set up opponent. To make this not too broken and to remove the consuming-aspect which just feels wrong in my opinion, here is my last version:
  • The Focus Band lets the user survive a fatal blow with 1 hp if he had at least 25%/50% of his maximum health remaining. The Focus Band is not consumed in this process. Also the user will be unable to use any status move. In this version, taking too much damage would ruin the item, meaning the player should still keep an eye on his Pokémons HP. Also powerful drain moves or wishes can restore the band, but any kind of chip damage ruins it.
One little issue i have with the Focus Band is Shedinja: While the first Version would be completely useless and unable to activate on Shedinja, the second would be a pretty inferior Sash. The third one however would make Shedinja immune to literally any direct damage, as it would always have 100% of its maximum health. Even though Shedinja couldn't really abuse this without swords dance, toxic or will-o-wisp and toxic/weather/hazards still kill it instantly, this could make Shedinja REALLY REALLY annoying, as some hyperoffensive teams would actually be forced to pp-stall it to death. However, as it isn't invincible, I'll skip this topic.


3. The Item Quick Claw:

The Quick Claw can be seen as a SURPRISE SURPRISE-Item as well as the ultimate desperation Item. However, it is neither of this but a very unreliable and insanely annoying item. My first idea was something like this:
  • Whenever the user enters the battlefield, his next attack has a priority of 0,5. Or in other words: BROKEN AS HELL and nobody but Moxie-Scarfers would ever want to touch a choice-scarf ever again. In other words: The ultimate Tool for easy revenge-killing. So: definitely NO.
  • Same as above, except the quick claw would show when it's active, which would make it more of a "forcing out"-item than an actual revenge-killing-item (that could be stopped with any kind of protection move). However, it would nontheless basically turn every Pokémon with a voltswitch/u-turn into a mini-mega-beedrill/manectric with a prio-switching move to avoid taking damage while scouting and dealing damage at the same time.
  • When the user attacks the first time, the quick claw will be consumed but his attack has a priority of 0,5. Basically you'd save up a Revenge-Killer for the entire battle when you need him, which can bring you out of one desperate situation, but as you need to save up the quick claw up to this moment, you'll have a 5:6-Situation until then as you can't attack with the quick clawed Pokémon and it loses its item after it saves you.
So those were my suggestions for the mode. Hope you like them and leave some thoughts :)
 
Simple idea for the Hax items:<br />
<br />
Focus Band: Works on every turn number divisible by ten and no others.
Quick Claw: Works on every turn number divisible by five and no others.

This is probably a way to make them work closest to the original - Focus Band could become a powerful offensive pivoting tool and Quick Claw would make scarfers and offensive teams more weary about attacking bulky checks in some cases.
 
Might have missed it in the previous pages, but... how are you currently handling speed ties? Both mons move at the same time, so there's no possibility of KO before moving?

EDIT: Scratch that, I missed this bit:
  • Speed ties are done for: in case of equal speed, the Pokémon with more HP will move faster, then the Pokémon with less weight, then the shorter one. In case of total tie, the Pokémon with less teammates, then the Pokémon whose overall team speed is greater, then, in case of exactly equal teams, a coin will be flipped.
 
I haven't played this meta yet, but...
Does Beat Up still hit six times? Cause w/King's Rock (I assume it gives you +10 flinch points) you could get 60 points per turn, so a flinch every 2 turns- If there was a Serene Grace+Beat Up user, that would be 100% flinch every turn.
There isn't any, but I just wanted to point that out.
 
I haven't played this meta yet, but...
Does Beat Up still hit six times? Cause w/King's Rock (I assume it gives you +10 flinch points) you could get 60 points per turn, so a flinch every 2 turns- If there was a Serene Grace+Beat Up user, that would be 100% flinch every turn.
There isn't any, but I just wanted to point that out.
In theory, Kings Rock Beat Up should not be affected by Serene Grace, seeing as Serene Grace only activates on moves secondary effects. And it should still hit 6 times, depending on the amount of Pokémon alive on your side of the field. With 6 pokémon alive, it should hit 6 times. I think it should give you 60 flinch points if all of your pokemon are healthy, but I am not sure how Joim worked out Beat Up mechanics. Might be test worthy.
 
In theory, Kings Rock Beat Up should not be affected by Serene Grace, seeing as Serene Grace only activates on moves secondary effects. And it should still hit 6 times, depending on the amount of Pokémon alive on your side of the field. With 6 pokémon alive, it should hit 6 times. I think it should give you 60 flinch points if all of your pokemon are healthy, but I am not sure how Joim worked out Beat Up mechanics. Might be test worthy.
I just tested this and I got weird results. Each hit gave me 10 points at first, but for two turns I got 20 per hit instead. Here's the replay, look at turns 7 & 8 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsou-4889
 
I just tested this and I got weird results. Each hit gave me 10 points at first, but for two turns I got 20 per hit instead. Here's the replay, look at turns 7 & 8 http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsou-4889
That sure is weird and I doubt that is known in the 'Skillmons business', for lack of a better therm. And I also doubt that this is intended to happen. I'll just tag Joim and xfix and they might be able to clear us up on this mechanic.
 

Spyro Chris

formerly James Jimmy
Is this completely discontinued? If so, why? The community really needs an 100% competitive metagame. It's a shame there are various Other Metas and none of them aims to be 100% competitive. Joim it'd be great if you completed this project.
 
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Hello joim. You are revamping this metagame, right? I recently came here with the goal of creating one of my own, which I think I'd call "absolute mindplay" with a similar premise to yours. Taking a closer look, I get the impression that creating it seperately might be counter-productive, attracting only a thin crowd. I haven't entirely given up on absolute mindplay, but if you're a programmer and willing to make changes, perhaps I could hand over some ideas to you.

I'm pretty new to the community, and am a bit confused in terms of how to play this metagame, and how a metagame earns a fixed position on the showdown drop down list. I'm the kind to always set goals very high, so I want to get a skill-based metagame permantly affixed to the showdown drop list. From there, I'll want to increase its popularity to the point that there is always someone to battle

I have compared and contrasted absolute mindplay and skillmon. I have deleted changes that I felt were inferior to their equivalent in skillmon, so this is essentially a list of changes I would like to propose. If I do not mention an rng effect such as paralysis, assume I am content with your mechanics for it.


Biggest change:

Move accuracy becomes move latency. Moves don't miss. Instead of fire blast missing 15% of the time, it is performed with only 85% of the user's speed. Moves like double team will reflect this change. (/u/projectENIS made this suggestion)

freezing cuts defense, does not immobilize, and is only ended when someone uses a fire move. This is made with higher freeze chances in mind, but it's not imperative.

Statuses with a variable number of turns (except my variant freeze) have a set duration. Perhaps their average +1?

Ohko moves behave in the way you described, but as a reminder, latency does affect them.

Protect and Detect can be used multiple times in a row. However, using them in succession costs twice as much pp, much like using the move under the effect of pressure.

Moves that once had increased crit chance now ignore defense boosts like sacred sword. (Instead of being compensated with a buff)
 
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Hello joim. You are revamping this metagame, right? I recently came here with the goal of creating one of my own, which I think I'd call "absolute mindplay" with a similar premise to yours. Taking a closer look, I get the impression that creating it seperately might be counter-productive, attracting only a thin crowd. I haven't entirely given up on absolute mindplay, but if you're a programmer and willing to make changes, perhaps I could hand over some ideas to you.

I'm pretty new to the community, and am a bit confused in terms of how to play this metagame, and how a metagame earns a fixed position on the showdown drop down list. I'm the kind to always set goals very high, so I want to get a skill-based metagame permantly affixed to the showdown drop list. From there, I'll want to increase its popularity to the point that there is always someone to battle

I have compared and contrasted absolute mindplay and skillmon. I have deleted changes that I felt were inferior to their equivalent in skillmon, so this is essentially a list of changes I would like to propose. If I do not mention an rng effect such as paralysis, assume I am content with your mechanics for it.


Biggest change:

Move accuracy becomes move latency. Moves don't miss. Instead of fire blast missing 15% of the time, it is performed with only 85% of the user's speed. Moves like double team will reflect this change. (/u/projectENIS made this suggestion)

freezing cuts defense, does not immobilize, and is only ended when someone uses a fire move. This is made with higher freeze chances in mind, but it's not imperative.

Statuses with a variable number of turns (except my variant freeze) have a set duration. Perhaps their average +1?

Ohko moves behave in the way you described, but as a reminder, latency does affect them.

Protect and Detect can be used multiple times in a row. However, using them in succession costs twice as much pp, much like using the move under the effect of pressure.

Moves that once had increased crit chance now ignore defense boosts like sacred sword. (Instead of being compensated with a buff)
So Move latency becomes a great buff for slower Pokémon, who now have a chance to outspeed sweepers with 'risky' moves and also not give a damn about it since they're slower to begin with.

Sleep can last 2 turns as only it and confusion are timed.

And with the changes to high crit moves - would you get a similar buff to your moves with Scope Lens, Focus Energy, Super Luck, Stick and Lucky Punch? And what does Sniper do now?
 
So Move latency becomes a great buff for slower Pokémon, who now have a chance to outspeed sweepers with 'risky' moves and also not give a damn about it since they're slower to begin with.

Sleep can last 2 turns as only it and confusion are timed.

And with the changes to high crit moves - would you get a similar buff to your moves with Scope Lens, Focus Energy, Super Luck, Stick and Lucky Punch? And what does Sniper do now?
Exactly.
My goal with the changes is to preserve variety as much as possible without utilizing the rng.
As for other crit mechanics, I think joim's case by case basis works fine for them. (unless someone can come up with a better mechanic)

I like your changes, but in the Skillmons revamp I want it to be considered a full fledged OM rather than a pet mod. I want to change all the luck system to an equal point based system so the distribution of events is as close of possible, just foreseeable.
Sweet. Feel free to use the ideas. I'll be waiting for the return of skillmon.
 
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I like your changes, but in the Skillmons revamp I want it to be considered a full fledged OM rather than a pet mod. I want to change all the luck system to an equal point based system so the distribution of events is as close of possible, just foreseeable.
Oh, I get what you mean now. when i said the freeze thing was intended for a higher freeze chance, I meant that my variant freeze status would be nigh unusuable if freeze chances were translated into say, 10 uses of ice beam before a freeze occurs, and that 3 uses would be more appropriate.

Also, I was thinking that confusion should apply 40% recoil to all attacks which does stack with moves that already have recoil. Your version of confusion instead reroutes half of all inflicted damage to the user, which makes sense, but wouldn't that be a tad overpowered? If it does turn out to be op, the idea is yours.

Anyway, I'm usually right at home with coming up with weird mechanics and ideas without overcomplicating them. If you like the ideas, lemme know if anything needs balance or variation. Like moody: you could make it boost the highest stat and debuff the second highest stat.
 
Suggestion: instead of removing accuracy and multiplying the bp of moves by their former hit chance, turn accuracy into latency. For example, fire blast would keep its high damage, and instead of missing 15% of the time, the user's final speed would be multiplied by 0.85 for that turn.
 
First thing that came to my mind when I've seen that this meta has no crits:



DontShuckleWithFuckle (Shuckle) @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 28 Def / 228 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Rest
- Toxic
- Infestation


AromaVeiler (Aromatisse)
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: any
any Nature
-whatever1
-whatever2
-whatever3
-whatever4


Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand- as soon as the rest of the team knocks out the opponent's PHazer you switch Shuckle in on something that can't get close to OHKOing it and you win.
(EVs and nature give even Def and SpDef, that's probably not the best spread).
 
I play Ubers and I can tell you that Taunt or even better Perish Song Mega Gengar can eat this thing alive, Elavion.
Bulbapedia said:
Aroma Veil prevents the Pokémon with this Ability and its allies from being afflicted by Taunt, Torment, Encore, Disable, Heal Block and Attract
That's precisely why the Tisse is there in the first place :)

I play Ubers and I can tell you that Taunt or even better Perish Song Mega Gengar can eat this thing alive, Elavion.
The meta appears to be designed for OU (the replays in the first post are OU, at least).
 

Spyro Chris

formerly James Jimmy
No, I have played Ubers Skillmons a lot when it was available. And I was talking about Shuckle. But, yeah. Perish Song affects both and Shadow Tag means there is no escape.
 
Still, most Ubers setup sweepers can probably get through shuckle after a few boosts anyway. it still seems to be gamebreakerish in the lower tiers.

Maybe crit should work similarly to secondary effects?
 
Shell Smash Shuckle is bad with or without crits. Is too passive, taunt-bait, has too many exploitable weaknesses, and can't beat in a 1v1 every pokémon immune to poison. Also I don't get why Aromatisse is good due to the absence of crits.
 

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