Skillmons [Coming back soon™]

Spyro Chris

formerly James Jimmy
Joim I was wondering what does Sleep Talk do in Skillmons and it turns out to be completely random, like in the original game. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsubers-2787 See here. Any thoughts on how to make it non-random, anyone? I have thought of 2 solutions:

1) Cicle through the attacking moves of the mon, in a row, based on which one is first and 2nd. Example: if a mon's set is Sacred Fire, Bulldoze, Rest, Sleep Talk, Sacred Fire goes First, followed by Bulldoze and creating a cicle. Rest is never selected.

2) Pick the first attacking move of the mon and stick to that. (See above example)

Thoughts?
 
I like solution one, but it should be able to pick Rest - it does that in vanilla, after all. Also, you can have Sleep Talk without Rest, which some Darkrai checks in Ubers do.

Regarding Accuracy: Like the secondary points, have inaccurate moves generate "miss points" that are applied before the attack - if it goes up to 100, your attack will miss (using any means to assure a hit will not give you miss points, same with the attack having no effect). The number of miss points could lead to interesting mindgames - having 29 or less means you can hit with an OHKO move (Don't worry about balance, Skarm and Forry laugh at Sheer Cold users sans Kyogre).

Similarly, you can have counters that count up to a critical hit - the crit will happen at 16, which goes up by one everytime you deal damage with a direct move (+1 more for each level of critical hit ratio)
 
I like solution one, but it should be able to pick Rest - it does that in vanilla, after all. Also, you can have Sleep Talk without Rest, which some Darkrai checks in Ubers do.

Regarding Accuracy: Like the secondary points, have inaccurate moves generate "miss points" that are applied before the attack - if it goes up to 100, your attack will miss (using any means to assure a hit will not give you miss points, same with the attack having no effect). The number of miss points could lead to interesting mindgames - having 29 or less means you can hit with an OHKO move (Don't worry about balance, Skarm and Forry laugh at Sheer Cold users sans Kyogre).

Similarly, you can have counters that count up to a critical hit - the crit will happen at 16, which goes up by one everytime you deal damage with a direct move (+1 more for each level of critical hit ratio)
Actually, for crits it would start at 8, and go up by 1 with each successful hit, causing a crit at 16 like you said. Unless you're at +1 crit ratio, in which case it goes up by 2. +2 crit ratio makes it go up by 8 (because in standard, +2 crit is a 50% crit chance). +3 crit ratio increases it by +16 each time, guaranteeing a crit. Battle Armor and Shell Armor prevent it from going up at all.
 
I like solution one, but it should be able to pick Rest - it does that in vanilla, after all. Also, you can have Sleep Talk without Rest, which some Darkrai checks in Ubers do.

Regarding Accuracy: Like the secondary points, have inaccurate moves generate "miss points" that are applied before the attack - if it goes up to 100, your attack will miss (using any means to assure a hit will not give you miss points, same with the attack having no effect). The number of miss points could lead to interesting mindgames - having 29 or less means you can hit with an OHKO move (Don't worry about balance, Skarm and Forry laugh at Sheer Cold users sans Kyogre).

Similarly, you can have counters that count up to a critical hit - the crit will happen at 16, which goes up by one everytime you deal damage with a direct move (+1 more for each level of critical hit ratio)
With the accuracy thing you can even have accuracy improving moves(HC) lower miss points on your pokemon.
You'd also have to have evasion points so that defog would be as similar as possible.

This way the net points of dodge and miss would determine when pokemon miss(both can go into negative points)
 
With the accuracy thing you can even have accuracy improving moves(HC) lower miss points on your pokemon.
You'd also have to have evasion points so that defog would be as similar as possible.

This way the net points of dodge and miss would determine when pokemon miss(both can go into negative points)
Actually, Accuracy and Evasion would modify the rate at which attacks accrue Miss Points. Actually, given the way Accuracy and Evasion modifiers work, it would likely be easier to calculate Accuracy Points rather than Miss Points, and the overall effect is the same either way. Rather than adding Miss Points when you use a less than 100% accurate attack, you add Accuracy Points equal to the Accuracy of the attack you used. Accuracy points start at 50, and when they hit 100, 100 Accuracy Points are subtracted and your attack hits.

Why do it this way? Well, it makes the multipliers work better. Your Accuracy multiplies the number of Accuracy Points you get, while the foe's Evasion divides it. Otherwise, you have to affect the Accuracy rating of the attack and then determine the number of Miss Points, and it's just more confusing to players.
 
Joim I was wondering what does Sleep Talk do in Skillmons and it turns out to be completely random, like in the original game. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsubers-2787 See here. Any thoughts on how to make it non-random, anyone? I have thought of 2 solutions:

1) Cicle through the attacking moves of the mon, in a row, based on which one is first and 2nd. Example: if a mon's set is Sacred Fire, Bulldoze, Rest, Sleep Talk, Sacred Fire goes First, followed by Bulldoze and creating a cicle. Rest is never selected.

2) Pick the first attacking move of the mon and stick to that. (See above example)

Thoughts?
In regular play Sleep Talk is not limited to picking one move, nor does it avoid picking Rest if the user has it (it only avoids picking Sleep Talk). So going the way you suggest will deviate from game mechanics - something we want to avoid doing. There are other mods like the Gen-NEXT or Joimmons that specifically do stuff like that.

Here's what I suggested before but Joim didn't like it:
For a skill-based Sleep Talk, maybe get both players to vote for a move? If both pick the same move, ST uses that move. If both pick differently, ST uses the 3rd move that did not get picked (if that moveslot is empty, the user's vote wins - makes it so "ST + 2 moves" sets always get to win, in return for giving up the 4th moveslot). For each move the user didn't reveal yet, the opponent's voting panel displays sth like "[Move 1]".
Another idea is to make Sleep Talk pick the first usable move, then Rest (if it has it) then the final move, and cycle through this pattern. Rest has to get chosen 2nd regardless of move order, reason being that's the main luck element of Sleep Talk - picking Rest is Sleep Talk's equivalent of a "fail" or "miss" and it's important that this is reflected.

Otherwise, weird movesets may come up. E.g. if Sleep Talk only follows the move order, Rest+Chesto will lose even more niche, and suddenly all bulky attackers lacking proper recovery find themselves a viable RestTalk + 2 attacks set. Think Garchomp - Outrage / Earthquake / Rest / Sleep Talk grants it 100% HP & status recovery, then Outrage the next turn (without being locked), then EQ, then wake up and keep attacking. In addition to that, it saves up an item slot (by not needing Chesto) and is immune to status and fully functional in those 2 turns of sleep. It only becomes easier to play around the second time it rests - which is still better, considering with Chesto Berry you'd be doing nothing for 2 turns.

Hence my reason for cycling Rest a bit differently.

Regarding crits, you do have a point. Why not use the point system for crits? Well, I just wanted to get rid of crits entirely, as they have a too heavy effect on the game. So, I could just remove low chance secondaries and add those to the base power of the move, I just wanted secondaries to still happen. But this is up for discussion.
^ that's his response to crit/accuracy points (on page 3).
 
Okay so, it appears to be that confusion is really fucking broken. I didn't attack any of the turns, it didn't even try, it basically skipped me for those rounds. I didn't hit myself either. And this better be temporarily... :[
 

Spyro Chris

formerly James Jimmy
Dragon Tail seems to work like in the original tiers. It's completely random to where it sends you out to. I guess fix it to be like Roar.

Also, IIRC, speed ties are exactly like in the original. Could they be made to be something like:

First turn is 50-50, then the mon that went 2nd HAS to go first and keep exchanging? Of course, the engine will have to remember who went 2nd last time, even after a switch-out. No idea if that's easily coded.

EDIT: The Sleep Points and Toxic points do not seem to work as intended.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/joimslab-skillmonsubers-2860 (Turn 11 for Sleep, especially)

Take a look here.
 
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Xylen

Perfect Harmony.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Since almost everyone is okay with miss/crit points, why not have (almost) everything go with a point system? Whether if it's abilities, items, misses or moves (basically anything with % chance to activate) having a point system for all of those doesnt seem that bad of an idea. Everything is predictable, and guaranteed, therefore easier to prepare for it, making an interesting result. This also pretty much get rids of all those BP issues, and makes things much more simpler
 
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Spyro Chris

formerly James Jimmy
Since almost everyone is okay with miss/crit points, why not have (almost) everything go with a point system? Whether if it's abilities, items, misses or moves (basically anything with % chance to activate) having a point system for all of those doesnt seem that bad of an idea. Everything is predictable, and guaranteed, therefore easier to prepare for it, making an interesting result. This also pretty much get rids of all those BP issues, and makes things much more simpler
I disagree with that. The whole point of not having misses or crits is to have a more natural flow within matches, not to mention that since almost every single move can crit, if the counter is "universal", it will result in people abusing it to get an important crit on an important move that would otherwise not kill. I can't think of any specific examples of abusing this system right now, but I am pretty sure many will come up. It's best to leave misses and crits outside of this game.
 
Threats in the Skillmons meta game:



Aerodactyl-Mega:

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Stone Edge
- Fire Blast
- Hone Claws

With its 150 base Speed Mega Aerodactyl outruns the majority of the meta, most notably Mega Lopunny which is a massive threat in the Skillmons meta. Skillmons has buffed Aerial Ace to 80 BP, making at a decently strong move boosted by Tough Claws as well. It also ignores defensive boosts. Stone Edge also never misses anymore, for which you trade a little bit of power. Hone Claws now boosts Attack by 2 stages and Special Attack by 1, which allows Mega Aerodactyl to run a mixed set more effectively. Fire blast allows Mega Aerodactyl to defeat Ferrothorn and Skarmory, which could otherwise wall Aerodactyl easily.
Despite all these buffs, Mega Aerodactyl still struggles with common priority moves, and needs some team support to cover that weakness. Nevertheless, Mega Aerodactyl is a great Pokemon in the Skillmons OU meta game.




Bisharp:

Bisharp @ Lum Berry / Life Orb / Dread Plate
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance / Pursuit / Low Kick / Aerial Ace

Bisharp has not changed that much, but what did change is Defog. Since Defog now drops both of the foes defenses, Bisharp gets twice the boost it gets in regular OU. This makes Bisharp one of the most threatening sweepers in the tier, for one Defog instantly grants it two Swords Dance boosts. Swords Dance is the most common move in the fourth move slot, and makes Bisharp capable of sweeping even without a boost from Defog, but Pursuit, Low Kick, and Aerial Ace all have their uses. Lum Berry is the preferred item to ignore all the sleep moves that are being thrown around to an extent, but Life Orb and Dread Plate are still viable items.




Charizard-Mega-Y:

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost / Inferno / Sleep Talk

Even though Fire Blast and Focus Blast are weaker in Skillmons OU than in regular OU they have 100% accuracy, which is quite nice. Mega Charizard Y remains one of the biggest nukes in the meta game with its sun boosted attacks. It has also gained the ability to use Inferno, which has a 100% chance of burning the foe, making it easier for Mega Charizard Y to break through them later in the game. Unfortunately Mega Charizard Y does struggle with the amount of faster Pokemon in the tier and its crippling Stealth Rock weakness, although Roost helps a little with the latter problem. Steep Talk is another option to laugh at all the sleep moves that are popular in the tier.




Crobat:

Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 76 Atk / 184 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hypnosis
- Brave Bird
- U-turn / Defog / Super Fang
- Roost / Taunt

Although Crobat might not look very impressive, its incredible speed along with Infiltrator and U-turn makes it one of the best Hypnosis users in the tier. Crobat is able to put the plethora of slower Pokemon to sleep with ease, even through Substitutes, and gain momentum with U-turn. Additionally Crobat hits fairly hard with STAB Brave Bird and can be a Defogger if you want it to be one, although it struggles against Bisharp. Super Fang and Taunt can stall break decently together but Crobat has a hard time fitting those moves in. Crobat does not need full Speed investment because it already outspeeds almost all Pokemon already, which is why the above EV spread has just enough speed to be faster than Tornadus-T.




Durant

Durant @ Life Orb
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hone Claws
- Iron Head
- X-Scissor
- Superpower / Stone Edge / Crunch

Because of Hustle Durant is extremely powerful, and sits at a pretty good Speed tier. Hustle got a big buff, and Durant doesn't mind that at all.This little monster has a decent move pool which includes strong STABs, great coverage moves and even Baton Pass. On the down side, Durant is really frail and is thus hard to set up. Nonetheless, Durant is not to mess around with. Hone Claws basically acts as a Swords Dance, which boosts Durant's Attack stat to a very high level. Iron head is the main STAB move, which can flinch once you have enough points saved up. X-scissor is the Bug-type STAB move of choice, and although it has no secondary effects it is a pretty solid move. Last up is either Superpower or Stone Edge. Superpower hits Steel-types for Super effective damage with base 120 power. However, if you feel like your team can take on Steel-types well enough, then you can use Stone Edge which allows Durant to hit Fire-types such as Mega Charizard X. Crunch is yet another option which would allow Durant to hit the rare Doublade. For a dual attacking set, which is definitely viable on Durant, Crunch is preferred, due to the great neutral coverage it grants with Iron Head.




Garchomp:

Garchomp @ Lum Berry / Focus Sash / Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hone Claws
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
- Fire Blast / Stealth Rock

With its wonderful STAB combination and access to Hone Claws, Garchomp has become quite a threat. There are only a handful Pokemon who resist its STAB combination and can reliably take it on. Earthquake is Garchomp's most spam able STAB move, as it's a strong move with base 100 power and 100% accuracy. Dragon Rush does double damage if the foe has used Minimize and has a chance to flinch, so it can be worth running over Dragon Claw. However, the most popular Minimize user, Clefable, is immune to the Dragon-type and Dragon Claw is stronger by 5 base points. Although Garchomp is a great Pokemon and a good Stealth Rock setter, its Speed and 4× Ice-type weakness do hold it back and makes it easy to revenge kill by the big amount of faster Pokemon in the tier.




Gengar:

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Because of its great stats, typing, ability, and a 100% accurate Hypnosis Gengar is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in Skillmons OU. With Gengar's 110 base Speed it can outrun the majority of the meta and disable the foe with Hypnosis. Offensively Gengar is no slouch either, for its Life Orb boosted moves hit quite hard and have perfect neutral coverage even without Sludge Wave. Gengar does have a few issues, however, most notably a weakness to Knock Off and Pursuit, and its frailty. Even so, unprepared teams will often fall to Gengar.



Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hypnosis
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

This set takes a little different approach than the above one. Because of its perfect coverage with Shadow Ball and Focus Blast alone Gengar can afford to drop Sludge Wave for Substitute. Once a Pokemon has been put to sleep nothing stops Gengar from setting up a Substitute and thus protecting itself from any attack aimed at it once. The lack of Sludge Wave does hurt, however, as Gengar cannot break through bulky Fairy-types like Sylveon and Clefable anymore, and is unable to touch Chesnaught because of its ability, Bulletproof.




Heatran:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock / Flash Cannon / Ancient Power / Toxic / Hidden Power Ice

With Magma Storm being 100% accurate stall breaker Heatran is far more reliable than before. This set does quite well against most walls, as it can trap them with Magma Storm while slowly making them faint with the combination of Magma Storm's residual damage and Taunt to make the foe unable to heal off the damage. Earth Power gets around opposing Heatran as well as Tentacruel. In the fourth move slot there are a lot of options. Stealth Rock is useful if your team does not have another Pokemon carrying them, Flash Cannon does a lot to Clefable and other Fairy-types, Ancient Power makes quick work of Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y, Toxic makes the foe faint even faster, and Hidden Power Ice deals with Dragon-types such as Dragonite and Garchomp. Despite this set being offensively orientated Heatran can still wall a lot of Pokemon, such as Volcarona and Talonflame, and provides a lot of offensive and defensive synergy to all teams.




Kyurem-B:

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 104 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hone Claws
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power

Kyurem-B already was a good wall breaker, but with Hone Claws being buffed it has gotten even better. With +2 Attack and +1 Special Attack almost every wall falls to Kyurem-B's power. Kyurem-B has perfect neutral coverage with these three moves, and is able to hit the whole tier extremely hard after a Hone Claws boost. Unfortunately Kyurem-B's mediocre speed and typing hold it back from doing as well against offense as against stall, but it is still an enormous threat all defensively inclined teams. The EV spread maximizes Kyurem-B's Special Attack while making it capable of outspeeding Jolly Bisharp. The leftover EVs go into HP for some extra bulk. A Rash nature can be used over a Mild one to take priority, which is usually physical, better. 160 Speed can also be used to outrun Adamant Excadrill.




Lopunny-Mega:

Lopunny @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- High Jump Kick
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch / Healing Wish / Encore / Power Up Punch / Heal Bell / Substitute

Mega Lopunny is blessed with an amazing ability to go with its typing. High Jump Kick being 100% accurate, STAB and having no Pokemon immune to it because of Scrappy is rather scary. Scrappy also gives Mega Lopunny perfect neutral STAB coverage outside of Shedinja, which is irrelevant. Furthermore,Mega Lopunny has a great move pool which includes a lot of supporting moves such as Encore, Healing Wish and Heal Bell. Mega Lopunny is also one of the best offensive checks to Gengar. Obviously it cannot switch in against a Sludge Wave or Focus Blast, but it can out speed and OHKO it with Return. Mega Lopunny does especially well against the hyper offensive teams that are popular, but struggles against bulkier teams unless it runs Power Up Punch + Substitute or Encore. It also has problems with priority, most notably Mach Punch and Gale Wings Brave Bird. That said, Mega Lopunny is one of the best Pokemon in the Skillmons OU metagame.




Milotic:

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Coil
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Scald

Although Milotic is far from a good Pokemon in regular OU, in Skillmons OU it is a fearsome set up sweeper that happens to counter Gengar as well. Coil boosts Milotic's Defense and Special Attack, making it harder to take down while it slowly gets stronger, and Marvel Scale makes Milotic even bulkier on the physical side when Milotic uses Rest. Scald is the attack move of choice because of its ability to spread burns. This set is a great win condition for stall teams and is very hard to stop once it gets going.




Octillery:

Octillery (Octillery) (F) @ Razor Claw
Ability: Moody
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Energy Ball
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Surf

Octillery is a massive threat in Trick Room if you know how to use it.With Moody it gets +2 Special Attack and -2 Speed every turn, which is amazing for Trick Room teams. With such an amazing move pool and good Special Attack,Octillery has no problem with messing up your entire team if not prepared. Octillery obviously requires Trick Room to bring out its full potential and it is far from the bulkiest Pokemon, but it can still easily rip holes in teams team with its move pool and coverage. Surf is the STAB move of choice, being decently powerful and reliable. Ice Beam hits the Dragon-and Grass-types which resist Surf. Fire Blast hits Grass-types that don't care about Ice Beam, such as Ferrothorn. Energy Ball is the last move on the set, and allows Octillery to hit Water-types that would otherwise completely wall it. A Razor Claw is used because this increases base power of your moves by 12.5% without making Octillery lose HP, which might hurt his longevity.




Sableye-Mega:

Sableye @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Knock Off / Taunt

Because of Magic Bounce and its typing, Specially Defensive Mega Sableye is one of the best Gengar counters in Skillmons OU, as well as the great Pokemon for stall teams that it is in the regular OU metagame. Will-O-Wisp being 100% accurate is also a small buff that is easy to overlook but makes Mega Sableye a more reliable Pokemon now. In the fourth move slot Knock Off is the preferred move to cripple Pokemon such as Chansey by taking their items away, but Taunt is an option to be a better stall breaker in combination with Will-O-Wisp. Mega Sableye does not need a lot of support. It just needs one or two teammates such as Jirachi and Tentacruel to keep the Fairy-types away. The other Mega Sableye sets are still good, but are not written about because they did not change in viability.




Sigilyph:

Sigilyph @ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Skin / Magic Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 140 Def / 120 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hypnosis
- Calm Mind
- Roost
- Stored Power

Sigilyph might not be the first Pokemon you would look at in this meta, but the buff to Wonder Skin allows Sigilyph to use it over Magic Guard now. Wonder Skin makes Sigilyph immune to status of any kind, while Magic Guard ignores all indirect damage. Wonder Skin is notable because it grants an immunity to Sleep, Freeze, and Paralysis, making the 120 Speed EVs not for naught if Sigilyph gets paralyzed. The first move on the set is Hypnosis, which gives Sigilyph an easier time setting up. The second move is the preferred set up move, Calm Mind. Calm Mind helps Sigilyph with the only offensive move this set has, which is Stored Power. Calm Mind boosts both the Special Attack and Special Defense by one stage, unlike Cosmic Power which leaves Sigilyph somewhat weak even if fully boosted. The last move is Roost for longevity. Without Roost, Sigilyph gets worn down rather quickly. The 120 Speed EVs are there to outrun Adamant Dragonite and by extension Adamant Bisharp, which are checks to this set. 248 HP EVs make Sigilyph take less damage from Stealth Rock if running Wonder Skin. .The remaining 140 EVs go into Defense, because Sigilyph is boosting its Special Defense with Calm Mind. This set requires some support to take out Dark-types like Tyranitar and Bisharp that completely wall this set, but can be very effective under the right circumstances and is very fun to use as well.




Zapdos:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Zap Cannon
- Heat Wave / Hidden Power Ice
- Roost
- Defog

Zapdos stands out as one of the best Zap Cannon users in the tier, making it capable of spreading Paralysis while attacking, as well as one of the few Defoggers that can defeat Bisharp with correct prediction. Zap Cannon, although weak, is very spam able once Ground-types have been removed, while Heat Wave makes quick work of Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Bisharp. Zapdos' typing is also still great, making it a good answer to Flying spam, most notably Mega Pinsir. HP Ice is also an option against common Pokémon like Landorus and Gliscor. The 16 Speed EVs allow Zapdos to outspeed base 70 Speed Pokemon without a boosting nature, such as Breloom and Bisharp.




Zygarde:

Zygarde @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Earthquake
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage / Substitute / Hidden Power Fire

Zygarde is one of the most threatening set up sweepers in the tier. With its great bulk and typing Zygarde has no hard time setting up, and will often end up sweeping teams lacking dedicated answers with ease. Coil might not sound like the best move, until you realize it gives Zygarde +2 Attack, +1 Defense and +1 Special Attack now. Coupled with Extreme Speed and good STAB coverage Zygarde is a monster. A Life Orb is preferred to maximize Zygarde's damage output but if using Substitute, Leftovers should be used so Zygarde does not kill itself. Hidden Power Fire is another option to touch Skarmory and make quick work of Ferrothorn and Scizor, but requires lowering one of Zygarde's other stats.




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Worth mentioning



Absol-Mega:

Mega Absol is another great user of Hone Claws. Due to Absol's good offensive stats and this new addition a mixed Absol set is definitely viable. Fairy and Dark have great coverage already, but with a Fire-type move you get past some of the most annoying Pokémon in the game, namely Ferrothorn; which you preferably want to hit with a move that does not make physical contact to avoid a guaranteed 12% on Absol due to Iron Barbs, and another potential 16% depending on the item it holds. Absol still suffers from 4 move slot syndrome, however,but that does not take away from its viability.




Breloom:

Breloom is also a pretty good Pokémon in the Skillmons meta. With Dynamic Punch being 100% accurate and nerved to 50 base power, Technician Breloom has a strong and spam able Fighting STAB move. Breloom now also hits 3 times guaranteed with Bullet Seed, all of which are 30 base power per hit. It also has access to a Sleep inducing move in Spore. Breloom is considered a big threat, but if the opponent knows what it's going to do it can be somewhat lackluster.




Golurk:

Golurk's ability No Guard has received a nice buff in Skillmons. No Guard takes away the immunities to Golrurk's moves, allowing it to hit all Pokemon neutrally with its STAB moves, the most notable move being Earthquake. Earthquake is one of the best offensive moves in the game and Golurk gets a STAB boost on this. With no Pokemon being immune to it because of No Guard, Golurk can be quite a threat. Backed up by decent bulk across the board and a solid move pool with access to Rock Polish to back up his rather poor speed, Golurk definitely deserves a mention here.




Machamp:

Almost the same story as Golurk. With its STAB Close Combat Machamp can literally punch holes in teams, especially if coupled with a Choice Band. Ghost-types are not immune to a No Guard Close Combat coming from a 130 base Attack stat with a STAB. It is not something to take lightly. Machamp also has a pretty good move pool that allow it to hit pokemon that wouldn't mind taking a Close Combat for so big damage. Machamp can punch his way through your team, opening up holes for other team mates. It is also rather bulky, so it can also take hits, while dealing out massive damage. Therefore we thought Machamp should not be left out.




Doublade:

Yet another No Guard user. Doublade can safely switch in on many Pokemon because of its great typing, and due to that often has chances to set up a Swords Dance. Stat-wise Doublade has a pretty good base 110 Attack stat and enormous Defense stat boosted by Eviolite. No Guard allows Doublade to hit Normal-types with a priority Shadow Sneak, which is very nice for it. Doublade is not something you want to take lightly, because if you underestimate it Doublade will either end up sweeping your team, or fainting after it has caused enough chaos for a teammate to clean up.




Medicham-Mega:

Mega Medicham did not change that much, but we didn't want to leave it out because it definitely has something going on for him. One of the main things Medicham had going against it was the lack of accurate STAB moves. In the Skillmons metagame there are no misses, and therefore High Jump Kick and Zen Headbutt can be used safely. Mega Medicham is slightly slower than Mega Gallade and has worse coverage, which is why we were hesitating to include it. It does, however, have far more immediate power than Mega Gallade and can thus get around Unaware Clefable, something Mega Gallade can only dream of doing.




Slowbro-Mega:

Mega Slowbro, already being the bulky monster that it is, is now even bulkier because of the Shell Armor change. Shell Armor now decreases the damage output all offensive moves' with 6.25%. This allows Mega Slowbro to set up even easier. A simple CroBro set does wonders. Slowbro also has access to Slack Off, so the combination of Rest and Sleep Talk is not necessary if you can provide cleric support or if you're just not afraid of status and thus decide to use Slack Off instead.




Suicune:

Even though Suicune has not gotten a massive buff, we did feel the need to include it in the this list because of the disappearance of critical hits. Suicune is one of the bulkiest Water-type Pokemon in the game. Since Suicune does not have to worry about stray critical hits anymore, it can now set up more safely with the standard Crocune set. Even though Scald has gotten more easy to play around due to the points system announcing when the burn happens, it is still a dangerous move which Suicune makes good use of.




Rotom-Wash:

Rotom-Wash, one of the most hated Pokemon in the OU tier,is just as good if not better in Skillmons OU. Since misses are removed, Rotom-Wash has a much easier time spreading burns around which are now 100% accurate. Its main STAB move, Hydro Pump, is also not as risky anymore at the cost of some power. Rotom-Wash is definitely a solid wall and pivot, mainly because of its typing and ability working so well together. Rotom-W is mainly used to check certain offensive threats,most notably Talonflame and Sand Rush Excadrill. Rotom-W also has access to the move Confuse Ray which halves the damage the foe does. However, Confuse Ray crashes your games at the moment.




Whimsicott:

Whimsicott is the fastest sleep inducer in the game thanks to Grass Whistle in combination with Prankster.Prankster gives all status moves priority, making Whimsicott a really big annoyance. However, due the point system Skillmons uses this move only works every other turn, which means you realistically do not get to use Grass Whistle more than once per game. Even so, Whimsicott is a great one time sweep stopper. Whimsicott also has 100% accurate Leech Seeds and Stun Spores in Skillmons, both making Whimsicott an even more annoying Pokemon to face. Unfortunately, Pokemon carrying Lum Berry completely screw Whimsicott over as it wastes one of Whimsicott's few chances to put something to sleep or paralyze them.



___________________________________________________________________________



Written by:
- GrimoireGod
- Kasumi
- Mein



Grammar check:
- GrimoireGod
 
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Xylen

Perfect Harmony.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I disagree with that. The whole point of not having misses or crits is to have a more natural flow within matches, not to mention that since almost every single move can crit, if the counter is "universal", it will result in people abusing it to get an important crit on an important move that would otherwise not kill. I can't think of any specific examples of abusing this system right now, but I am pretty sure many will come up. It's best to leave misses and crits outside of this game.
I wouldnt say it would disrupt the flow of the game, Crit is 6.25/100 chance of activating, so i wouldnt see it happening too often, or abused for that matter. Having a guaranteed crit meaning its predictable, and you know its going to happen, unlike the real games where you wouldnt know when things will activate.
 
Since almost everyone is okay with miss/crit points, why not have (almost) everything go with a point system? Whether if it's abilities, items, misses or moves (basically anything with % chance to activate) having a point system for all of those doesnt seem that bad of an idea. Everything is predictable, and guaranteed, therefore easier to prepare for it, making an interesting result. This also pretty much get rids of all those BP issues, and makes things much more simpler
This sounds cumbersome to me, like I'd have to keep track of a bunch of different point things throughout the match, and they're always changing because every attack adds crit points and a lot of stuff adds miss points too.
 

Xylen

Perfect Harmony.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
This sounds cumbersome to me, like I'd have to keep track of a bunch of different point things throughout the match, and they're always changing because every attack adds crit points and a lot of stuff adds miss points too.
I wouldn't think of this as a problem, as secondary effect points are all recorded (after each move with % secondary is used, the total point of that stats will be displayed in the battle), so there's no reason why miss/crit points cant be recorded and displayed too.
 
Yeah it can be recorded, but it's just a lot of information to process strategically. It seems to me that it'd feel weird to have a mod that's ostensibly "Pokemon without luck," but in practice you're constantly managing crit/miss points which wasn't even a thing before? I dunno
 
You guys are overlooking Togekiss.
This thing is incredibly powerfull.

Togekiss:



Togekiss (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Tri Attack
What makes it so dangerous? Tri attack with serence grace gives 40 freeze points (at least atm). This means that almost every second move freezes. (90 (+40) 130 (-100 + 40) 70 (+40) 110)
Also Air slash gives 60 points which means every 2 a 3 turns it flinches, this combined with overal bulk is quite deadly.

Tri attack might want to work like this: 20 points to freeze then 20 to para then 20 to fire then 20 to freeze etc.


Also Keldeo is amazingly powerfull thanks to no crits.

Keldeo:



Keldeo-Resolute @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk / 30 SpA
- Secret Sword
- Calm Mind
- Scald
- Hidden Power Electric / Icy Wind

Why is it so dangerous? Keldeo is the S/A-tier type of mon. IT jsut needs a little support and is deadly. Being faster than tons of stuff it can easily set up one calm mind and then sweep. If you have support like spore/hypnosis/tri-attack togekiss. Keldeo can be amazing at setting up Calm-minds and sweep. If you have the physical beasts gone from the opponent team, keldeo can set off some cm while bulking special attacks.
EDIT: Keldeo normally needed some sort of support, but with the new mechanics sleep support is way more reliable.
 
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Grim

The Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Namine The problem with Togekiss is that because of the new Thunder Wave and Air Slash mechanics there simply is no way for Togekiss to straight up hax itself through the foe as in the original games, which is one of the things that made Togekiss good. Tri-Attack is cool though, although it adds nothing to its coverage. As for Keldeo, I think the standard Substitute + Calm Mind set definitely got slightly better, but it does best against stall which usually cannot break Keldeo's Substitute anyway.

Anyway, a really fun and broken Pokemon we've been playing around with lately is Glalie.


Glalie @ Glalitite
Ability: Moody
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Return / Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard

In Skillmons Moody lowers your Pokemon's worst stat and boosts your Pokemon's highest stat, so Glalie gets a free Swords Dance every turn. With Protect it's easy to get more than one boost, and a boosted Ice Shard beats the majority of the Pokemon on offense while a boosted Return or Double-Edge destroys stall. The EV spread gives Glalie enough speed to outrun Adamant Excadrill after Mega Evolving while having enough bulk to tank some non super effective priority moves. You could also just use 252 Speed to at worst speed-tie with other base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Charizard Y, Manaphy, and Mew, but they usually do not run max Speed anyway. Additionally, you could use Jolly so Glalie gets +2 Speed every turn, but Adamant is usually superior because a boosted Ice Shard picks off most faster Pokemon already.
 
Moody is currently dumb anyway.
How is boosting your best stat by 2 and lowering your worse (that you don't care about, usually the other attack stat) by 1, as powerfull as boosting a random stat by 2 and lowering a random stat by 1 ?
It makes no sense at all. We're going from "well ... i guess my ability will help on long fights ? hope it doesn't drop my main stat..." to "nice a free sd/np every turn without doing anything !"
 

Xylen

Perfect Harmony.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Moody is currently dumb anyway.
How is boosting your best stat by 2 and lowering your worse (that you don't care about, usually the other attack stat) by 1, as powerfull as boosting a random stat by 2 and lowering a random stat by 1 ?
It makes no sense at all. We're going from "well ... i guess my ability will help on long fights ? hope it doesn't drop my main stat..." to "nice a free sd/np every turn without doing anything !"
Indeed Moody is really ridiculous right now. Of course it should be changed, however it shouldn't be random. Perhaps (a personal idea), increasing your highest stats by (amount), and lower stats (for example stat is 275 120 78 103 280 174, special defense will be increased every turn, while the stats Atk Spe Def SpD and SpA is decreased, in that order).
 
Joim
I'm going to throw this out there: If your sole intention is to make a skill based version of OU, it would be better to ignore/remove elements entirely than to change their effects for the sake of removing rng. If you somehow change the viability of large groups of pokemon by your changes, it's going to be a new metagame. Small shifts are probably inevitable, as moves like focusblast would absolutely have to be changed in some way.

Now I'm not saying that's wrong, but I don't know if that is what you intended.
For example: Battle Armor: This Pokémon reduces all damage by 6.25%. If you really want to just make the game solely skill based, make the ability do nothing at all. Yes poor Kabutops, but frankly no OU viable pokemon was relying on that ability to do anything to begin with. Removing critical hits already created an environment without rng, and anything beyond that is needless.

If you're fine with this resulting in a slightly different meta though, then whatevs bruh, it's your mod.
 
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There's broken, and then there's Broken:
Omfg (Smeargle) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 13 Spe
- Protect
- Cosmic Power
- Extreme Speed
- Water Shuriken

Hated the world, and wanted it to burn? Here's your chance, with +6 Attack, and nice defenses (Among other things), This thing will wreck face.
 

Rory Mercury

not composed
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
There's broken, and then there's Broken:
Omfg (Smeargle) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 13 Spe
- Protect
- Cosmic Power
- Extreme Speed
- Water Shuriken

Hated the world, and wanted it to burn? Here's your chance, with +6 Attack, and nice defenses (Among other things), This thing will wreck face.
It's stats are still bad though, so it can be taken down with ease. Now if you were to add baton pass we'd be talking. Also it's walled by Jellicent lmao

And Chaoswalker , just removing abilities/attacks wouldn't exactly work either as it'd in a way change it's utility as well. You'd make Pokémon that lose a useable ability suffer, while they get nothing in exchange. Of course, changing things gives rise to new Pokémon, but in the end, the metagame should adapt. It being different from OU shouldn't be a problem either, as there are further changes that are planned, like unbanning some Pokémon from Ubers are banning some from OU. This can't be avoided when creating a new "tier" and I feel like the main idea of it being skillbased remains, and at the moment that is all that matters.
 

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