It can run extremely situational z-snatch to snatch quiver dances.Poipole UU -> Uranked
I honestly don't see how it could ever be useful at all.
It can run extremely situational z-snatch to snatch quiver dances.
It runs a fat Nasty Plot RestTalk set. It's really not great by any means but Beast Boost can be really annoying to deal with at times, so it can be threatening in the right situation. Pair it with Alolem to trap Bronzor and you just might threaten a few things.Poipole UU -> Uranked
I honestly don't see how it could ever be useful at all.
If it gets a kill, does beast boost improve the speed of poipole?It runs a fat Nasty Plot RestTalk set. It's really not great by any means but Beast Boost can be really annoying to deal with at times, so it can be threatening in the right situation. Pair it with Alolem to trap Bronzor and you just might threaten a few things.
It does when you run 252 HP / 252 Spe, which is the standard set.If it gets a kill, does beast boost improve the speed of poipole?
Allow me to go through your list and provide you with an explanation for why you don't see some of your listed moveset nominations as a primary export and piggyback on some of your sets.I'd like to start my post thanking the QC-Team for revamping all analyses.
However I feel like some analysis are strange:
SubSplit should have its own set, even if you have to forgo momentum, it gives Frostom a easier way to break through some fat build.
Life Orb should be in oo it's a strong option if you already have a Z-move on Pain Split set.
Chatter is a bad move, it shouldn't be run on Z-Encore sets. It doesn't touch anything that Heat Wave doesn't touch, even Hidden Power [Water] is better for hitting rock-types.
Choice Specs should have a set out of oo. It's the most threatening wallbreaker in the tier and is able to 2HKO every Pokémon in the tier after SR (even SpD Regice has a small chance to die).
Physically Defensive and Choice Band warrant a set. They are even better than WP lead Golem.
248 HP / 252+ SpD / 8 Spe is a potent spread for oo
Eviolite and Hidden Power [Electric] are good enough to be in oo
Bulky Crustle (the one in oo) should run 84 EVs in SpD to avoid the 2HKO from Specs Chatot
Shadow Ball should be slashed with Focus Blast. In fact Shadow Ball is better than Focus Blast every specially defensive Pokémon bar Lickilicky and the rare Klang.
Will-O-Wisp should be slashed with Wild Charge not with High Horse Power which gives a better coverage than Wild Charge
Soundproof is imo at least as good as Sap Sipper with Chatot arround and to punish Parting Shot Silvally.
Choice Scarf deserves its own set.
No Guard Machoke is bad, it should be in oo. I don't even see any reason to use this over Guts.
Add this set:
Machoke @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Rock Slide / Thunder Punch
It was standard in ORAS PU before its ban and is still very powerfull and a good status absorber.
Sheer Force deserves its own set. It's a very powerfull wallbreaker.
Nasty Plot also deserves its own set.
Idk what the goal of running Extransensory? Leaf Storm does better damages to Mareanie and it doesn't even 4HKO CroMuk. I believe Hurricane is far better because it can catch Fighting and Grass-type (i posted calcs on my previous post).
Swords Dance deserves a mention in oo.
ShuckleDeath set deserves its place in oo. Also Adamant should be removed since it gives up every adavantages Kanto-Dug has over Alola-Dug.
Choice Scarf deserves a set, it's like having a 93.5 Atk / 111.5 Spe Choice Band.
Surf Mold Breaker lead, Zen Headbutt, Fire Blast and SD deserve a mention in oo.
The first set should have this spread: 248HP / 8 Def / 252+ SpD since avoiding the Psyshock Golduck is irrelevant.
Can I have a mention of this set in oo, it's the only Seaking's set that beats Mareanie and can also reliably check our electric type.
Seaking @ Leftovers
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 184 HP / 252 Atk / 72 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Knock Off
- Megahorn/Facade
- Drill Run/Facade
Where is the offensive Pivot set from ORAS? It's still good and even got a new tool in Strenght Sap.
Darkinium-Z should be the main set. You really don't want to get hard walled by Bronzor when you get break through Golem after chip damages.
This set should be the main set. It seems a bit odd there is another AV set as everybody in this thread agreed that Oranguru needs to raise in the VR because of it.
Also some set have odd HP number which is for a lot of known reason bad. I won't list all of them but this needs to be changed.
I don't think LO should go in OO to be completely honest. In my opinion it should be on the Z-Blizzard set but slashed so it isn't the first choice. Believe it or not but LO Sub Split is one of Rotom-Frost's better sets. Unfortunately it isn't used as much because everyone is just drooling over Scarf. This is just my take on the Rotom-Frost sample set.Substitute + Pain Split variants have a hard time abusing what makes Rotom-Frost S-rank material in the first place, and that is being the most threatening pivot in the tier. You have a hard time breaking common checks such as Eviolite Bronzor, Muk, Regice, Seaking, and even bulkier variants of Grumpig. Rock Blast Golem also has a field day against this set if Sturdy is preserved. I will however note that Life Orb is a fine addition to OO if it hasn't been already added.
The fact that CB Golem is even being considered as a main set is misleading. Golem is primarily a tank, hazard setter, or effective sweeper, all courtesy of Sturdy. Using Golem as a revenge killer/bulky attacker is counter-productive and sounds suboptimal compared to an offensive tank set or something along those lines, considering it also loses out on Rocks.Physically defensive and Choice Band Golem were listed as OO but are not as optimal as the current spreads for this metagame. Physically defensive golem heavily competes with Gabite who has a better defensive typing and ability to abuse physical attackers. Choice Band Golem is prone to chip damage just like WP sets and does not effectively get rid of threats like Silvally-Fighting, who takes a risk during the 1v1 trade and is knocked out by +2 Earthquake. I do respect your confidence in your claims that some things may be better but a lack of proper evidence will lead to questioning and we are always willing to compromise if you are able to back yourself.
Keep in OO. Having used it a lot in the last meta (though equally as flawed in this meta: can't even switch into Obama without being 2hko'd), I can vouch it's too frail. Also takes away its primary niche as a Kecleon check/Rocks setter.Sheer Force AoA Mawile can be up for discussion as an export addition with the QC team, but is generally horrible against anything but defensive teams.
At that point, you're better off going Silvally-Flying, because at least Silvally-Flying is somewhat tanky/speedy enough to do things. I much prefer current AoA Toucannon, which wallbreaks the majority of the tier. Base 60 with no boost is asking to be revenge killed, especially in a meta where Zebstrika is one of the top Electrics.Swords Dance can be added to OO, although Toucannon is always better running AoA sets and abusing its access to U-turn to threaten teams.
I just want to parrot: Sludge Wave should be added, looking at the replay ShuckleDeath posted, it looks like really nice bait. :ok_hand:Sludge Wave can be added to OO along with his spread if we cannot find a more optimized variant. Choice Band / Scarf Dugtrio-Kanto can afford the speed drop for Adamant due to its higher base speed, and thusly will not be dropped.
I laughed because I did the Jumpluff set (initially, thank Diagnostic and Froasty for their help!) and I remember initially suggesting offensive pivot Jumpluff, which was nice several gens ago. I was corrected (rightfully) and to be honest, if you want an offensive Grass pivot, go Silvally-Grass (which actually does things, and has stats enough to be a pivot).Jumpluff is horribly outclassed offensively and should be noted for its support sets and ability to use its new recovery option in Strength Sap along with Z-Crystals. Feel free to prove why your claim should be added in a metagame where Sap Sippers like Bouffalant and Zebstrika roam.
Darkinum-Z should actually be the main set. It breaks the Bronzeanie core, but I think that's been mentioned.Darkinium-Z shall be brought up for later discussion. This is a good investment that probably went overlooked during the final entry process for the sample sets since it was brought up before by our team members.
I've experimented with this before and I think its not horrible, however run Substitute or Agility over Disable, its significantly more useful. Seadra isn't a great Pokemon from my experience though, and isn't as good as breaking fat stuff as well as you would think.Hi, Hello. Spooktune here, with a crisp new VR Nomination.
Seadra: UR -> UU/C-/C/C+
Now, you may be asking. Why Seadra? First, let me explain what Seadra does.
What it do
Seadra is a pure Water type Pokemon with a beneficial offense consisting of a Special Attacking stat of 95, and a Speed of 95. It's Defense is moderate yet has something to be desired for, with a Defense of 95, an HP of 55, and a Special Defense of 45. Paired with Eviolite that makes a solid 143 (Rounded Up) base Defense and a still lacking base Special Defense of 68 (Rounded Up). Seadra's most useful ability is Sniper, which allows critical hits to do 1.5 more damage. This allows Seadra to both Ignore it's own Special Attack stat drops (from moves like Moonblast and Parting Shot), and the raised Special Defense of the foe. This, combined with the 2.25 boost from a Sniper + Critical Hit allows for Seadra to rack up damage.
The Set
Seadra @ Eviolite
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Energy
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Signal Beam
- Disable
This set focuses on Focus Energy and Sniper, which was a gimmick used on Kingdra way back when. while Focus Energy does take a turn to set up, allowing the foe to attack and possibly KO, one thing Seadra has in it's moveset is the helpful move Disable, which in turn allows Seadra to set up against Choice-locked users such as a Monferno, Basculin, or Rotom-Frost locked into Blizzard. It even can force switch-outs if it Disables it's foe's only attacking move, or the only attack that can deal sufficient damage. This allows Seadra to sweep by use of Sniper-boosted Critical Hits, sometimes taking out even Pokemon that resist it's moves. Ice Beam allows Seadra to KO Grass-types like Tangela, Leafeon, Or Silvally-Grass easily, if used in combination with Webs. Signal Beam is another option for Seadra, as it still hits Grass types but can also hit other Water types for sufficient damage.
Why Seadra?
Seadra does share competition with overall better Special Attacking Water-Types like Simipour and Silvally-Water, and is mostly outclassed. There are, on the other hand, some things that Seadra can do that the other two cant, such as take Physical attacks with relative ease or Do heavy amounts of damage without having to take too many turns to set up. I also want to put a big emphasis on Critical Hits. Usually you want a crit when you have to get just enough damage to KO, but with a rate of doing so being very minuscule. with Focus Energy, you get that 90% of the time, with additional damage to boot, delivering many OHKOs in the process. While it is outclassed, I think Seadra shouldn't go unnoticed.
I do think Sub/Agility is useful yes but in my specific case i use it on a Webs team. i will edit my post to contain Agility and Substitute. Thanks!I've experimented with this before and I think its not horrible, however run Substitute or Agility over Disable, its significantly more useful. Seadra isn't a great Pokemon from my experience though, and isn't as good as breaking fat stuff as well as you would think.
This line isn't actually factual, depending on the sets and spreads involved. If this is implying you are running Soundproof Bouffalant, then yes, Bouffalant would obviously be the best check out of the three of them. However, you have to keep in mind Bouffalant prefers to run Sap Sipper most of the time, to quote because I couldn't say it better myself.Oranguru Usually Useless -> C- Quite Agree
Well there is no much reason to use it over Kecleon/Bouffalant but i played it and i recognize it has a small niche in being a bulky AV able to weaken several mons than Bouffa or Kec cannot such as the cores Mareanie/Bronzor, Tangela/Muk, etc. However, it cannot stop things such as boomburst chatot (Bouffa can and it's nice)
Assuming all three potential Assault Vest users can get him by Chatots timid Choice Scarf Boomburst, we can use this to compare all threes damage special bulk and damage output.Sap Sipper far surpasses Soundproof in both the immunity department and for for wallbreaking purposes. Being able to stop Grass-type moves is a blessing and provides it with a more threatening presence since it can limit threats including Leafeon, Abomasnow, Lurantis, Tangela, and even abuse powder abusers like Smeargle, Jumpluff and Butterfree. I would always take that trade unless my team was heavily Chatot weak and I should note that Silvally-variants prefer to run U-turn in the metagame to avoid playing around Clear Body, Soundproof, and Defiant / Contrary / Competitive users, while being able to chip against foes.
Okay, not trying to make you feel bad or anything, but the EVs are all wrong. Unless you want to speed tie with NP Mr. Meme (which I have seen a lot less than Scarf Meme, but anyway), 224+ Speed EVs are optimal. 224+ Speed EVs give you that clean 299 Speed, which is 1 point above 252+ Rotoms (the closest threat in Speed which you can actually deal with, at least after rocks).I'm here to nominate Pikachu from Unranked to C, as Pikachu has the ability to threaten out some of the most powerful mons in the tier due to it hitting extremely hard with a combination of Volt Tackle, E-Speed, and Knock Off, as well as beating debatably the best defensive core in the game.
View attachment 133167
Pikachu @ Light Ball
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 28 SpD / 228 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Volt Tackle
- Extreme Speed
- Grass Knot
- Knock Off/Volt Switch
Light Ball is the entire reason this set works, as without it Pikachu is simply a worse Zebstrika. Lightning Rod is illegal with Extreme Speed, so unfortunately Static is the only option for an ability. Volt Tackle provides maximum damage output, as Pikachu isn't taking hits anyways, so the recoil isn't that important. Extreme Speed allows for Pikachu to claim KOs on faster mons such as Kadabra or Rapidash. Grass Knot OKOs all Golem sets allowing Volt Tackle and Extreme speed to be extremely spammable. Knock Off is a very good way to hit Bronzor, allowing it to break arguably the best defensive core in the meta right now, with the great benefit of hitting Grumpig. Volt switch is an option to get momentum on the walls you scare out.
Hasty allows for Pika to reach 300 speed while still allowing for OKOs on max bulk Golem, and reducing Pikas already terrible defense (base 40). 228 speed evs and a plus speed nature means that Pika outspeeds things speed creeping Rotom-Frost. 252 attack evs are to maximize general damage. The 28 Sp Def evs are to take weak special hits from mons like Marienie and Bronzor better, although the evs aren't by any means making Pikachu bulky.
Extreme Speed is calced for mons faster then Pikachu, while coverage is used for slower mons
Walls and tanks
0 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Golem: 384-456 (105.4 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 294-348 (97 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Grumpig: 314-370 (86.2 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Muk: 289-342 (69.8 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Water: 476-564 (124.9 - 148%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zebstrika: 148-175 (51.2 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive mons
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chatot: 190-224 (64.8 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Monferno: 384-453 (142.7 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Monferno: 171-202 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kecleon: 306-361 (94.4 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pinsir: 228-268 (84.1 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vigoroth: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Abomasnow: 161-190 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Combusken: 154-182 (59 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mr. Mime: 145-171 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rapidash: 136-161 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Beheeyem: 198-234 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Bouffalant: 238-282 (60.5 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Bronzor: 186-220 (58.4 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 141-167 (48.4 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ninetales: 130-153 (45.2 - 53.3%) -- 33.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Oricorio: 612-722 (173.3 - 204.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Bulkier Oricorio Baile)
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Oricorio: 136-161 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 71.1% chance to 2HKO (Standard Oricorio Baile)
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Simipour: 148-175 (50.8 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Non OKOs or 2KOs
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 108-127 (44.8 - 52.6%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Frost: 96-114 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Silvally-Fighting: 106-125 (32 - 37.7%) -- 93.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally-Dragon: 107-126 (32.3 - 38%) -- 96.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 52+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 64-76 (19.1 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
As the calcs above show, Pikachu threatens most of the metagame with the very powerful combination of Volt Tackle and Extreme Speed, with Grass Knot and Knock Off filling in for the few mons that can take the hits from that combo, with Tangela being the only mon that can be classified as a true counter.
Replays:
Pika OKOs a decent threat to my team in Seadra and E-Speed kills a x2.5 speed Combuseken that could sweep my team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-790346853
Pika does >50% to Carbink, revenge kills Rotom-Frost, and almost KOs a Metang after rocks: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7zu-792699941
I mentioned that the 228 speed evs are to speed creep things speed creeping Rotom, which Pikachu needs due to its frailty. As I also mentioned, the Sp Def evs are to maximize the bulk from weak special hits (while also noting that this is by no means putting bulk into Pika), as putting them into Sp Attack helps nothing. The only other mon that Grass Knot hits harder then one of the other coverage moves is Onix, which is still OKO'd (0 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Onix: 452-536 (164.9 - 195.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO). However, thank you for bringing up the point that NP Mr. Mime runs 300 speed, I'd forgotten about that and suggest running 232+ speed, by taking 4 from Sp Def.Okay, not trying to make you feel bad or anything, but the EVs are all wrong. Unless you want to speed tie with NP Mr. Meme (which I have seen a lot less than Scarf Meme, but anyway), 224+ Speed EVs are optimal. 224+ Speed EVs give you that clean 299 Speed, which is 1 point above 252+ Rotoms (the closest threat in Speed which you can actually deal with, at least after rocks).
Also:
0 SpA Mareanie Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 78-93 (36.9 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Mareanie Scald vs. 0 HP / 28 SpD Pikachu: 75-88 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
I don't think it makes a huge difference investing in SpD. 35 HP is easily cut through, especially with 40/50 defenses. I think it's best to just invest the 32 in SpA (unless someone can prove me wrong).
Maybe, but anyway its still takes outspeed from Combusken at 1+ and its takes around 70% of monferno mach punch, that is normally the amount of health that raticate has with burn/hail/sr dmg, also it takes outspeed from dugtrio-a,panpour and scarf frosttom and without boosts can't ohko them with sucker punch, anyway would be hard to it being b+ rank but b sounds niceRaticate from B- to B/B+
Not much to say here, but the biggest thing that makes Raticate a lot better in the meta atm is the popularity of the Mareanie + Bronzor core, which the rat can break with ease, no boosts needed.
252 Atk Guts Raticate Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Mareanie: 160-190 (52.8 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Guts Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Bronzor: 144-170 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 87.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Maybe, but anyway its still takes outspeed from Combusken at 1+ and its takes around 70% of monferno mach punch, that is normally the amount of health that raticate has with burn/hail/sr dmg, also it takes outspeed from dugtrio-a,panpour and scarf frosttom and without boosts can't ohko them with sucker punch, anyway would be hard to it being b+ rank but b sounds nice
Raticate has base 97 Speed, which is pretty average considering its faster than max Speed Silvally/Scarf Obama outspeeds it. Sucker Punch is one of the main draws of using Raticate over a Bouffalant or something of that nature, because priority is useful when your Speed tier is average.It's a wallbreaker, it doesn't have to outspeed all those mons. Hell, it doesn't even run sucker punch.
While I agree with quite a few of your other nominations, I heavily disagree with this one. While it is true that Hakamo-o does have bad 4MSS, sets such as Sub DD do quite well against unprepared teams, and dual STAB has decent coverage against most of the metagame. Not only that, but saying that Hakamo-o is on the same level as mons like Meowstic-F, Sligoo, and Togetic is ignoring that it has the ability to deal with many high tier mons like Bouf and Golem without a D-Dance up, and mons like Rotom-Frost if it has either a D-Dance or a sub up.Hakamo-o B -> B-/C+
It has bulk over fraxure but just doesnt have enough power or even opportunity to set up to work. Wall by Mareanie except if you run stuff such as Earthquake/Taunt but 1) Fraxure does the same thing 2) You are scald weak 3) If you run drain punch with that, you cannot hit much flying type. You need Poison Jab to dont be walled by Mime too, it suffers for a hard 4mss. I tested it and it's just very disappointing and I felt to play 5vs6 with it. Sometimes just a deadweight and every time it worked, Fraxure/Vigoroth would have done the same thing but just in better. Just disappointing.