Smogoff CAP - Next Phase TBC (current progress in post #506)

would you like to do a stats stage (don't be a dick and vote for both yes and no)


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252+ Atk Normalize Mudsdale Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 168-200 (55.2 - 65.7%) -- approx. 2HKO
(Double Iron Bash is a stand-in for Double Horse Kick due to similar power, and Mudsdale is Normal-type and has the same stats)
You missed that Double Horse Kick is a "SPECIAL MOVE!1!11!11!" and ignores all abilities on the field, so Normalize should not affect this calc. I don't see a Horse-type on the horse, but I did a separate calc with STAB anyway. Unfortunately the Silk Scarf only boosts Normal-type attacks.

252+ SpA Mudsdale Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- approx. 4HKO
252+ SpA Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 116-138 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- approx. 2HKO

EDIT to below:
It's a special attack?
movepool:
SPECIAL MOVE!1!11!11!
Double Horse Kick (open for suggestions)
- Horse-type
- Move is so basic it ignores any abilities on the field when dealing damage (including its own)
- Meaning we have a STAB-horse move
- 60 BP/hit
- 99% accuracy
It says special in your description, not physical or status. Since the horse-type didn't exist in generations before the physical/special split happened, there are really no other inferences we can go off of.
 
Last edited:
You missed that Double Horse Kick is a "SPECIAL MOVE!1!11!11!"
Nice
You missed that Double Horse Kick is a "SPECIAL MOVE!1!11!11!" and ignores all abilities on the field, so Normalize should not affect this calc. I don't see a Horse-type on the horse, but I did a separate calc with STAB anyway. Unfortunately the Silk Scarf only boosts Normal-type attacks.

252+ SpA Mudsdale Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- approx. 4HKO
252+ SpA Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 116-138 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- approx. 2HKO
It's a special attack?
 
You missed that Double Horse Kick is a "SPECIAL MOVE!1!11!11!" and ignores all abilities on the field, so Normalize should not affect this calc. I don't see a Horse-type on the horse, but I did a separate calc with STAB anyway. Unfortunately the Silk Scarf only boosts Normal-type attacks.

252+ SpA Mudsdale Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 78-92 (25.6 - 30.2%) -- approx. 4HKO
252+ SpA Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 116-138 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- approx. 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Mudsdale (STAB) Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 170-204 (55.9 - 67.1%) -- approx. 2HKO

EDIT to below:




It says special in your description, not physical or status. Since the horse-type didn't exist in generations before the physical/special split happened, there are really no other inferences we can go off of.
Ok thanks. Toxapex is just really strong. :blobpex:
 
120/130/100/80/100/150 (680 BST)
Horses are known for being fast and being able to take hits, so I gave it a high speed and bulk. I then decided that it should be a physical attacker, so I put 130 points into Attack. I wanted it to have the Base Stat Total of a legendary, so I dumped the rest of the points into Special Attack.
252+ Atk Normalize Mudsdale Mega Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 138-163 (45.3 - 53.6%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
(Assuming that the horse is going to know Mega Kick since LordThemberchaud did not list any moves)
 
I believe Anthrax would kill any opponents before their PP runs out. Or the opponents can just switch out. But still, if someone manages to hurt our horse, most sets have decent bulk.
Sorry I meant Toxic staller...
Which is why I believe the Anthrax concept needs to be reworked. Having a (presumably) legendary horse with godly base stats, an almost unstoppable Toxic, and other high BP moves makes it only weak to ghost types, meaning almost every team in the Ubers tier has to run a ghost type of they might get trampled (haha get it) by this horsey.
Would you want our horsey to be the next AG banworthy mon? IDK
 
Sorry I meant Toxic staller...
Which is why I believe the Anthrax concept needs to be reworked. Having a (presumably) legendary horse with godly base stats, an almost unstoppable Toxic, and other high BP moves makes it only weak to ghost types, meaning almost every team in the Ubers tier has to run a ghost type of they might get trampled (haha get it) by this horsey.
Would you want our horsey to be the next AG banworthy mon? IDK
We wanted to make a broken normal horse (Uber level), but it might be possible to retool Anthrax or not include it in our horse's moveset.

I looked up usage stats and only around 30% run Calyrex-S (the most common Ghost mon)

Also, even if Calyrex-S manages to hit us, most stat spreads still have decent bulk.
 
We wanted to make a broken normal horse (Uber level), but it might be possible to retool Anthrax or not include it in our horse's moveset.

I looked up usage stats and only around 30% run Calyrex-S (the most common Ghost mon)

Also, even if Calyrex-S manages to hit us, most stat spreads still have decent bulk.
I don't think anyone said broken, since the concept was to make a normal horse and not the most broken pokemon ever. Personally I think the current goals are misguided. It's fine if it doesn't OHKO Toxapex or can't beat ghosts, because it doesn't need to. Every pokemon has its natural balance of strengths and weaknesses, things we can switch in on and things we need to switch out of, and we shouldn't go out of our way to remove that aspect of the game. With running Normalize, we accept having natural threats in ghosts/rocks/steel and removing super-effective hits, but this also allows us to land boosted STAB unresisted hits on everything else, which can be staggeringly powerful when these threats are out of the picture.
 
i dont think it matters at all if we can ohko or 2hko toxapex or whatever. thats missing the forest for the trees. as long as weve got a horse with a gentle disposition and a strong constitution, then were gonna be just fine. lets stop worrying about toxapex and anthrax for a moment and just feed this baby some hay, toss a saddle on her, and ride her down the mountain trail, eh?
 
i dont think it matters at all if we can ohko or 2hko toxapex or whatever. thats missing the forest for the trees. as long as weve got a horse with a gentle disposition and a strong constitution, then were gonna be just fine. lets stop worrying about toxapex and anthrax for a moment and just feed this baby some hay, toss a saddle on her, and ride her down the mountain trail, eh?
Duh! I think I'm starting to lose out. Just let Toxapex win for now.
 
stats submission for HORSE: 100/130/90/45/85/110, BST 560

pretty normal spread for a pretty normal physically attacking HORSE. kinda bulky but not too much, kinda fast but not too much, hits kinda hard but not too much. idk what's relevant nowadays, maybe someone can optimize it for relevant benchmarks
 

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