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Smogon Shoddy is up

sanjay, check your PMs. I won't post my reply here; this isn't the place for that discussion. Also, I feel I was speaking out of place.
 
Apparently it was up and working for a short time; mien managed to get 9 points somehow to get ahead of me on the leaderboard and break 1650 first.

But I still can't connect to bring my score over that (hopefully). =/
 
i can't get on i hit connect and it just sits there doing nothing i can get on other servers so this isn't my side
 
You know how we have the Garchomp-less ladder to be implemented in a short while? I'm suggesting that we try a Stealth Rock-less ladder before that.

The reasons to try it before Garchomp are: 1) It affects all tiers. 2) It also affects how Garchomp does in OU. With SR gone, Ice types are in action, so Garchomp gets less switch ins. Garchomp's counters of Articuno and Cloyster are also viable now.

Any opinions on this?
 
Yagami Light said:
You know how we have the Garchomp-less ladder to be implemented in a short while? I'm suggesting that we try a Stealth Rock-less ladder before that.

The reasons to try it before Garchomp are: 1) It affects all tiers. 2) It also affects how Garchomp does in OU. With SR gone, Ice types are in action, so Garchomp gets less switch ins. Garchomp's counters of Articuno and Cloyster are also viable now.

Any opinions on this?
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this, also as a side note garchomp sweeps way easier with stealth rock on the field.
 
Light's idea makes perfect sense to me. Stealth Rock is a more drastic change, plus while the banning of SR would possibly affect the banning of Gachomp, the reverse isn't as true.
 
Chris is me said:
Light's idea makes perfect sense to me. Stealth Rock is a more drastic change, plus while the banning of SR would possibly affect the banning of Gachomp, the reverse isn't as true.
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I want SR banned as well allthough it is more for personal reasons then for strategy purposes
 
SR banning will create a huge shake-up in the UU tier as well, for a couple reasons. Some of the biggest threats in UU, Scyther and Swellow, are largely kept in check by the fact that SR absolutely rips them to pieces. Conversely, one of the main things about Clefable is that it takes no SR damage, which can mean that it may lose some of its appeal. Furthermore, the number of Spikers in UU is pretty small- Froslass, Cacturne, Glalie, Omastar, and none of them are very effective for the laying of Spikes. Rapid Spin would be less important. Also, overlooked walls such as Vespiquen, Torkoal, and other SR weak walls could come into play.

All in all, I'd like to see a SR-less UU ladder in tandem with a SR-less OU ladder to see what becomes viable once SR is removed from the equation.
 
Does Stealth Rock's ladder operation become the primary objective because we'd rather ban that specific move rather than Garchomp itself? Sure, Stealth Rock is a theoretical benefit for Garchomp's overwhelming onslaught and late-game sweep, but I personally do not believe Garchomp's Ice-type potential counters will affect Garchomp's usage or influence on the metagame significantly, nor will lack of Stealth Rock.

Although this idea certainly seems more logical with Garchomp's conclusive decision being uneffective on Stealth Rock's position, where as there is a slight possibility the other way around (though I doubt it, personally).
 
Mien. said:
I want SR banned as well allthough it is more for personal reasons then for strategy purposes
Click to expand...

This is entirely irrelavent to the order of testing stuff on Shoddy.

Does Stealth Rock's ladder operation become the primary objective because we'd rather ban that specific move rather than Garchomp itself? Sure, Stealth Rock is a theoretical benefit for Garchomp's overwhelming onslaught and late-game sweep, but I personally do not believe Garchomp's Ice-type potential counters will affect Garchomp's usage or influence on the metagame significantly, nor will lack of Stealth Rock.

Although this idea certainly seems more logical with Garchomp's conclusive decision being uneffective on Stealth Rock's position, where as there is a slight possibility the other way around (though I doubt it, personally).
Click to expand...
Last paragraph is what I think too, though I still think Articuno is a vastly underrated Pokémon that's just entirely screwed up by Stealth Rock. Massive defenses, STAB Ice Beam, Roost, Pressure, Roar... wow. So I do think that there's actually a decent chance here. Of course, some people will just be shouting "OMGWTF THATS OVERCENTRALIZING!!", or worse they could actually run Stone Edge on their Chomps :(
 
... okay i say something usefull then

Articuno will remain BL even if SR would be banned it simply doesn't have a good typing and besides of roost and Pressure it doesn't have a good walling movepool either .
Besides Articuno doesn't counter Yachechomp

Outrage Adamant +2Att stage 252Att Garchomp to 252HP/96Def Calm Articuno= 102.08% - 120.05%
Ice Beam Bold 96SpAtt Articuno to 0/0 YacheGarchomp = 71.99% - 84.87%

 Articuno can revenge kill not counter yachechomp, it can't counter Bandchomp either and any version carrying Stone Edge
And besides from that Articuno can't take much no usefull resistances with exception of Ground and 4 weaknesses with one being double

Yes there will be a generall rise of Articuno but certainly not enough to make it OU
While another Bird named Zapdos will see a lot of rise with SR being gone
It might be that Moltress becomes OU I've seen at work several times on shoddy and it can be very difficult to take down without aid of the Rocks
 
I think it will be a little like Roserade. People will know its usefulness and how to counter it, people will use it and see it as a threat, and it will cross the BL/OU line many times.
 
I think that 252 HP / no Defense Articuno is a terrible spread to take on CHomp with. Why did you pick that one? 252 / 252 / 4 would work better, 2HKOing Garchomp even with a Yache Berry and not being OHKO'd after a Swords Dance.

It's like saying that Cresselia with 252 HP instead of 252 Def isn't a decent Chomp counter. The problem is you put the EVs in the wrong place, in Defense either Pokémon is _nearly_ a perfect Chomp counter, with Articuno (I think, I forgot if I ran the calc or not) holding up to 2 CB Outrages if maxed out.

If you're insane, maxed out Hariyama can take a Swords Dance Outrage from Chomp and Counter for the OHKO. That really has nothing to do with Stealth Rock, it's just randomly cool.
 
Chris is me said:
I think that 252 HP / no Defense Articuno is a terrible spread to take on CHomp with. Why did you pick that one? 252 / 252 / 4 would work better, 2HKOing Garchomp even with a Yache Berry and not being OHKO'd after a Swords Dance.
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If you read my post again you'll see that it is 252HP/96Def which is considered standard in the smogon analyse

Besides even IF it has 252HP/252Def and a Bold Nature it can't counter Garchomp.
Garchomp can set up 1SD when Articuno switches in and get another when he survives an Ice beam. There is no way Articuno can survive a +4 Stage Outrage from Garchomp
That is in fact the reason why Garchomp is theorically uncounterable because even a Cresselia fully ev'd in Def has trouble taking such a powerfull attack
 
Garchomp would have to attack, otherwise Articuno could just Haze and then start Ice Beaming as unboosted Outrage is not a 2HKO.

Besides, Outrage is when you switch in your HP Ice/Dragon Pulse Heatran, Hypnosis Bronzong, Explosion Forretress, Will-o-Wisp Shedinja, etc.

EDIT: Icy Wind could work but Arty is pressed for moveslots already.
 
The standard EVs for a Pokémon almost never used aren't necessarily the best. You can't use the argument "OMG THESE EVs ARE KOed!" when there are better EVs available for use...
 
its probably because you to clicked the find tab at very close times, i always wait about a 30 seconds before clicking after a battle.
 
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