Gains health when hit by Electric moves? Baton Pass?
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Smogon University PO Statistics — December 2011
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Hmm, yeah volt absorb might be a big thing with Rotom usage as it is right now. Thanks, I was looking into it too much.
Here's a better explanation.
The difference is Volt Absorb. The presence of Jolteon means that Rotom-W can't just spam Volt Switch mindlessly. The Speed is also helpful for taking out the likes of Tornadus and Starmie, as most Raikou run a Rash nature because of stupid Ninetendo. While Raikou certainly has superior bulk, Jolteon's/ Raikou's job is not taking hits, its dishing them out. Jolteon has a much easier time firing off Attacks thanks to a superior ability and Speed. The only think Raikou has on Jolteon, really, is Weather Ball/ Aura Sphere, and as already mentioned, this forces it to run a -Speed Nature.
Not -Spe, but neutral
sure, youre still outspeeding +spe base 100s, but getting outsped by landorus is something no electric type wants.
sure, youre still outspeeding +spe base 100s, but getting outsped by landorus is something no electric type wants.
bleh, meant to say 0Speed Nature, lol.
Jolteon's speed is a huge advantage over Raikou. Raikou's 329 Speed makes it more of a wall-breaker than a sweeper, since there's quite a lot of faster mons to drive Raikou out.
However, Jolteon's Speed provides it a really useful revenge-killing utility, as highlighted by AccidentalGreed. Jolteon checks Gyarados and Dragonite after Dragon Dance. It's also great to dispatch ScarfToed, Starmie, Tornadus, and Landorus, all mons from which Raikou must flee. Being faster than Dugtrio is a huge boon as well, being able to kill / Baton Pass out from Dugtrio. Thanks to its Speed, it can clean teams end-game with a little boost from Charge Beam (which can also be passed to your other team members). A special attack boost or two really makes Jolteon unstoppable. Jolteon is imo more handy than Raikou on offensive teams.
PS: 2sly4u, Hidden Power Ice does 83-100% against Dragonite w/o MultiScale. Hit Dragonite while it dances, lock it into outrage while you sac a mon, and take it out with Jolteon.
However, Jolteon's Speed provides it a really useful revenge-killing utility, as highlighted by AccidentalGreed. Jolteon checks Gyarados and Dragonite after Dragon Dance. It's also great to dispatch ScarfToed, Starmie, Tornadus, and Landorus, all mons from which Raikou must flee. Being faster than Dugtrio is a huge boon as well, being able to kill / Baton Pass out from Dugtrio. Thanks to its Speed, it can clean teams end-game with a little boost from Charge Beam (which can also be passed to your other team members). A special attack boost or two really makes Jolteon unstoppable. Jolteon is imo more handy than Raikou on offensive teams.
PS: 2sly4u, Hidden Power Ice does 83-100% against Dragonite w/o MultiScale. Hit Dragonite while it dances, lock it into outrage while you sac a mon, and take it out with Jolteon.
While all your points are valid, I would hardly say that Raikou is an inferior choice on offensive teams, especially bulky offense. Despite his lower speed, Raikou also boasts several advantages over Jolteon, such as a much more reliable boosting move in Calm Mind and access to Aura Sphere. The former lets him set up in the face of weak special attackers, while the latter lets him OHKO Tyranitar around 90% of the time after SR, something Jolteon can only dream of. All this goes without mentioning Raikou's much better physical bulk, which prevents him from being killed by priority such as +1 Conkeldurr's Mach Punch after Guts (Jolteion is always OHKOd after SR).
As people have mentioned already, Jolteon is much easier to slap onto teams thanks to Rotom's prevalence. The ability to revenge +1 Gyarados is nice too, although I fail to see how Jolteon revenge kills Multiscale Dragonite. However, Raikou can be just as potent, if not more so, if your can get over his lower speed (and 329 is still good).
Aura Sphere Raikou must be Rash, which forces it to lose against Pokemon it would otherwise outspeed, such as non-Scarf Landorus, Mienshao, Infernape, Zoroark, etc. Jolteon does not need to worry about that stuff, and is much faster. Volt Absorb is also quite useful due to the prevalence of Rotom-W, and Jolteon still has the useful resistance to Scizor's Bullet Punch. Not to mention, Raikou has one of the worst movepools in the entire game.
How the hell is mamoswine OU and Weavile UU?
People obviously don't know how to use Weavile anymore. Mamoswine is just a fat pig that has no Swords Dance or Fighting-type moves. I never had any problems with mamo. The Curse set is free Forretress/Ferrothorn/Skarmory bait. Also, mamo can't do more to Scizor than Weavile and he's too slow. He is also the only Pokemon that is weak to Fire, Grass and Water, and Thick Fat does little to improve this due to low special defense.
I don't understand. Mamoswine sucks.
On the other hand there is NO Pokemon that resist the combination Fighting-Dark-Ice. Add Swords Dance, and Weavile becomes an ultra threat that can wreck huge havoc.
He also can use Taunt on a lead set to stop Skarm/Ferro/Forry. He might be frail, but his speed actually compensates for that.
People obviously don't know how to use Weavile anymore. Mamoswine is just a fat pig that has no Swords Dance or Fighting-type moves. I never had any problems with mamo. The Curse set is free Forretress/Ferrothorn/Skarmory bait. Also, mamo can't do more to Scizor than Weavile and he's too slow. He is also the only Pokemon that is weak to Fire, Grass and Water, and Thick Fat does little to improve this due to low special defense.
I don't understand. Mamoswine sucks.
On the other hand there is NO Pokemon that resist the combination Fighting-Dark-Ice. Add Swords Dance, and Weavile becomes an ultra threat that can wreck huge havoc.
He also can use Taunt on a lead set to stop Skarm/Ferro/Forry. He might be frail, but his speed actually compensates for that.
Mamoswine has the ability to Stealth Rock, access to STAB Earthquake, and can also cover the metagame well with its coverage or abuse Endeavor. It's not as frail as Weavile and it also doesn't help that it can deal with enemy Dragons well, but is completely shut down by Steel-types that will be involved in the Dragon/Steel combination.
1. Nobody uses Curse, it isn't even in the analysis.
2. This is Weavile's moves: 40 Base Ice Priority / 75 Base Ice, 70 Base Dark, Unreliable Fighting Move. This is Mamoswine's moves: 40 Base Ice, 85 Base Ice, 100 Ground, 100 Rock.
3. What can Weavile do to Scizor? He just gets annihilated by Bullet Punch. Mamo at least has a chance of surviving.
4. Mamo does have a Fighting-type move: it's called Superpower. It's used in Choice Scarf.
The main issue with Weavile is that its typing, while decent on paper, makes it incredibly difficult to switch in. Unlike Tyranitar, Weavile has horrendous defenses, and therefore must come in when something gets taken out. Mamoswine on the other hand, has a decent Ground+Ice defensive typing, which while not great, still beats Dark+Ice I guess. Furthermore, Mamoswine has superior bulk, which while on the surface doesn't seem to matter, is actually incredibly important when your main target is Dragonite, who commonly carries Extremespeed. Ground+Ice is if anything, a better typing than Dark+Ice, QuakeEdge+Ice Shard+Stealth Rock is not too shabby, not to mention Mamoswine has a superior Fighting coverage move in Superpower. Lastly, as rare as it is, Mamoswine can abuse Hail, in fact, its the only commonly used Pokemon in the tier besides Reuniclus and Alakazam that is immune to both forms of damaging weather. Tyranitar's usage alone makes this a valuable asset.
While Weavile like one of my favorite pokemon, There are some clear reasons why its not used. Swords Dance Weavile is just god awful in a metagame full of priority and where so many things counter it. also Mamoswine doesnt need fighting moves and can actually beat all the mons you listed as bait, while Weavile (with the exception of Ferrothorn) cannot beat them. Mamo might be just as weak to scizor but scizor is actually afraid of coming on mamo in fear of an earthquake, while CB Weavile hardly ever does more than 50% with Low kick.
I also dont see how you brought up Mamoswines weaknesses unless you dont notice that weavile has significantly worse typing and is weaker in almost all aspects due to lower bp moves. Mamo also has a signigicantly better move pool, and achieves extremely good coverage in its stabs alone, the only common threat that resists it is Rotom-W, who also beats all Weavile consistantly.
also please never mention the taunt lead again, its a terrible set in a meta with no leads that is just outright beaten by everything.
honestly Low Kick is extremely reliable in OU, with the only things that doesnt get hit for 100 Bp or more that you should be trying to hit with it are Jirachi and the flat blobs. also mamoswine has no actual chance of surviving a bullet punch,
No denying Raikou's movepool is poor, but Jolteon's is even worse for offensive sets. I'd rather have Aura Sphere or even Weather Ball than Baton Pass on a sweeper any day. Also, I know that Raikou has to use rash; thats why I said 329 total speed (neutral base 115) isn't all that bad.
Mamoswine, has access to much stronger attacks than Weavile. It should be noted that Mamoswine has the niche of having/being one of the premeir users of Icicle Spear. Being able to kill Dragonite through Multiscale and substitute is extremely useful. IIRC Icicle Spear has the potential to be stroger than icicle crash 33% of the time.
The thing about Jolteon isnt his sweeping capability, he screws over Volt-Turn chain. If DW Raikou was released, I'm sure it will be used more.
Psh, jolteon. It's all about that lightning rod pikachu in the rain. With your light ball, an agility after scarf/specs rotom switches out, and a +1 boost to your Spa, you are killing everything that isn't named ferrothorn.
Volt absorb raikou may not get the same benefits as the shiny event raikou did. I don't see him being used more than jolteon even if he was already released.
Volt absorb raikou may not get the same benefits as the shiny event raikou did. I don't see him being used more than jolteon even if he was already released.
What we really want is a Timid Raikou that can use Weather Ball and Aura Sphere. However, when Volt Absorb Raikou gets released, I would think that it would get some uses ober Jolteon in the form of a SubCM set. SubCM also makes better use of Raikou's superior bulk over Jolteon, but alas, we must wait for the next Nintendo event or game before we can enjoy Volt Absorb Raikou for ourselves.
Mamoswine is generally preferred since Scizor (who could just come on in and KO with Bullet Punch) doesn't really like switching in on Earthquakes, and the fact that Mamoswine isn't SR weak.
However, I will attest to Weavile having a niche in OU. That niche is STAB Pursuit, coupled with its high Speed. Weavile can reliably Pursuit trap Gengar and Latios due to its Speed, and can use the same STAB Ice Shard Mamoswine has to pick off Dragon Dancers like Dragonite and Salamence.
Weavile is in no way mediocre, as long as you give it the proper team support, but then again, everything needs proper team support to function effectively.
lol. Endeavor mamoswine makes a really effective lead since it can be both and SR lead or an offensive lead depending on your opponent's team. Endeavor+ice shard is an extremely good combo. No joke. A simple LO set can 3 hit KO physically defensive skarmory and given the 30% flinch chance, is highly probable. Mamoswine destroys stall.
Jolteon does not guarantee you will outspeed Gyarados/Dragonite after a single Dragon Dance assuming they're using a Jolly nature. Scarf Rotom-W secures both Gyara/Nite (surviving +1 Extremespeed), and has a better typing both offensively and defensively.
Metagross has too many traits to its name for it to go down to UU. Its sheer attack, coverage and overall bulk allow it to be a diverse Pokemon, whatever you ask of it. Hones Claws is, everyone's favorite word, a "troll" move which can make an impact because not a lot of threats can 1HKO Metagross, so you do have some time to set up. Choice Band Metagross with Trick has been the set I prefer due to its monsterous Attack, coverage, and ability to lock the opponent into a Fire/Ground-type move for your Dragon to set up; similar to how ScarfRachi may opt to do the same.
Metagross has too many traits to its name for it to go down to UU. Its sheer attack, coverage and overall bulk allow it to be a diverse Pokemon, whatever you ask of it. Hones Claws is, everyone's favorite word, a "troll" move which can make an impact because not a lot of threats can 1HKO Metagross, so you do have some time to set up. Choice Band Metagross with Trick has been the set I prefer due to its monsterous Attack, coverage, and ability to lock the opponent into a Fire/Ground-type move for your Dragon to set up; similar to how ScarfRachi may opt to do the same.
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