Something I need to get off my chest

I'm no expert when it comes to relationships, but I'd like to think I have experiences when it comes to situations such as these because my ex-girlfriend is just like the one you described... insecure, lonely, and apparently "in love" with me, but for whatever the reason unable to be in a relationship with me and prefers the company of her abusive ex-boyfriend.

There are a couple of hard truths you need to face here, which may be difficult, but will do you wonders for moving on (I know they did for me).

She is insecure, and unsure what is best for herself when it comes to relationships. In short, she is a mess.

With this knowledge, why would you consider a long term relationship with this woman? Before someone can truly love you, they need to have their OWN shit together, which this girl clearly does not. Any belief that this girl is a suitable partner is 100% emotional when in matters of love you really have to be as rational as possible because if you aren't, it's years and years of heartbreak ahead.

Another truth that will be hard to swallow is the following, and I almost hesitate to say it, but you need to hear it.

She has shown the capacity to be a cheater, and therefore lacks integrity and loyalty.

Your emotions once again will cloud your vision on this one... You are right when you say that cheating is an unforgivable offense. It's something that you can't go back on and should be met with a break up in pretty much all situations... but let me ask you this: what makes you so sure it won't happen to you too? It's kind of harsh to say 'once a cheater always a cheater', but it's not exactly a far fetched thing to say. The mindset that goes through someone's head when they cheat, lack of respect for their partner, lack of integrity as an individual... these things don't just go away when a new dude is in the picture. This stuff is ingrained in her personality. If she's prone to cheat once, she's prone to cheat in the future.

So, this woman is insecure, lacks integrity, and with all due respect, sounds a bit stupid considering she can't even realize her faults and try and fix them... in short... sounds like a REALLY awesome babe there, Yuri! She just epitomizes loyalty and trust, don't you think?

You need to realize that women like these aren't worth the time of day, because you deserve better...

But even beyond the fact that you're obsessed with a terrible girl, you're missing a bunch of HUGE red flags that are right in front of your face that should be deterring you from trying to re-enter a relationship with this woman.

I have to enlighten you on something. Married girls don’t like you more than their significant others. Here’s how you can tell: Because they didn’t leave their significant others for you! What these women are really doing is playing with you and their significant others. And they’re misleading both you. And the married women aren’t confused -- it’s the significant others and you who are confused!

This might not be a lust thing for you anymore, but it certainly was a lust thing for Mary. And once it stopped being about lust, she dropped you... unsurprisingly. You might admire all of her qualities, but do you admire her trustworthiness? Do you think that if you two got together she would be able to teach your daughters about the commandments ‘Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s wife’ or ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery?’” I’m sure Mary has every quality you would want in a woman. My favorite quality in a woman is disloyalty. And it sounds like she has that one in spades!

Lastly, you can't pursue a relationship with this woman because SHE'S MARRIED. If someone is married it doesn't matter what you feel or how you think she feels or really anything.... they're MARRIED. They're off limits. Period. No questions asked. Not fair game.

If you go down this road and chase this woman further... four years later she's going to have a kid (hopefully his), maybe even two, you're going to keep trying to have a relationship and flirting and maybe even kissing / fucking, and yet at the end of the day if you asked her to leave, she's STILL going to stay with her husband... and you'll have just wasted 4 years of your life.

I understand what you're going through is tough, Yuri... but hopefully you'll learn from it so you don't make the same mistakes falling for a girl like this in the future. I wish you luck, man.
 
Before I proceed, I want to make a few disclaimers. For starters, I have never been in a relationship, though I do know what a crush feels like. So I tend to call a spade a spade, please do not be offended. Secondly, I do not have as wide a spectrum of worldy experience as say, DM, or LonelyNess, so my view may be flawed. Divorce is also severely frowned upon in my religion.

It is my belief that if you wish to get together with a person out of love, it isn't just your heart that must agree with your choice. Your head should be willing to accept this as well. Your head raises doubts over going after her, and it's right; as a rule of thumb, your head shows you practicality, your heart shows you either morality or your deepest desires(exceptions are there). In this case, it is obviously not showing you morality(this woman being married and all). I understand the pain you are feeling from my own experiences.

All I can advise is to try to avoid her for a few days, and set your own thoughts straight. Decide that you do not want her since she has cheated before, and convince your conscious brain to cooperate. THat's the "easy" part. The harder part is to make your heart let go of her, and from what I've seen your best choice would be to suffer it out in silence.

I reiterate that my point of view is not necessarily perfect, and I may possibly be speaking in a rather old-worldly fashion. This is just my opinion on what you should do.
 
It still makes me wonder. If she cheated on her husband with you, why wouldn't she cheat on you with someone else?

You'll probably have that thought in your head a lot and it'll drive you crazy.
 
She sounds really sweet, but you said it yourself... She's mentally unstable. One wrong move could break her down completely, especially with her aunt sick, a bad marriage, and who knows what else. Those are the type of people you know you want to help but don't want to get wrapped up in, because eventually you may regret it.

I'd say it's best to stay put. If you do decide to make a move, at least wait until the whole business with her aunt is over - whether she's cured or just the opposite.

Good luck, you seem like a good guy. But go with your head, not your body.
 
I read the whole thing, and all I can suggest is that you look at Glen's and LonelyNess's posts. They know what they're talking about, and I know it may not be what you want to hear, but it's good advice. Best of luck Yuri.
 
stopped caring after "smuggle-wuggle" was put into play

Actually disregard that i kept reading. What you need to do is simple and i do not see why you have wimped out of doing so already. You do 1. Sweep her off her feet and tell her you love her or

2. You dont actually love her as much as you think you do, and you are comfortable with living without her. In this case i suggest breaking things apart altogether.

I am suspect of your feelings for her. A man truly in love will not think reasonably of the situation he is in until after he has gotten his love. If you are truly THAT insecure, you should go to some form of group therapy. I guess it was just me, but i thought the will to be aggressive and upfront was an inherited instinct for men, fighters or lovers.
 
Definitely listen to what Glen and LonelyNess had to say; theirs is the most sound advice in this thread.

Also remember that there are always more fish in the sea. You got this woman to fall for you, so you are obviously capable of attracting women. Even though you're really shy, you'll find someone who is right for you eventually, so don't give up! Keep on dating different people until you find the one.

You're young, and you have your whole life ahead of you. Don't waste time with an emotionally unstable woman who will only end up hurting you. Don't waste time on anyone who makes you wonder about her feelings for you. Never make someone your priority while allowing yourself to be their option (I think I heard this last one somewhere, but I don't remember where). You deserve way better, so just cut off all contact with her and start looking for someone who is actually worth your time.
 
My opinion on this situation will sound harsh, and if it is wrong so be it. I deserve to be chewed out if i'm wrong in this sort of situation. I will not retaliate. That being said, this is my opinion and there will be advice.

I disagree with the notion that you deserve better. Right now, i think it is the woman that will be in your love life in the future that deserve better. This woman cheated on her husband with YOU and YOU knew full well what you were doing. You compromised your own values to satisfy your emotions. Where is your integrity? If you aren't going to do anything about this situation and run away from it for another woman, than all I can say is good luck. You will need a crapton of it in your future relationships carrying this kind of baggage because buddy, no one can blame any woman for dumping you if they find this out.

Here's my advice: put aside any negative sentiment of this "bum" of a husband (IMO, i don't trust emotionally unstable women such as "mary" to be totally honest, so i'm not fully accepting that this husband truly is a bum, maybe he is.), meet up with him in a civil environment, and apologize sincerely for doing this thing with HIS wife, have nothing ever to do this "mary", and don't do it again with any other guy's wife. Whether he chooses to accept your apology or not and forgive you is his problem. It will be HEAPS better for you to have your integrity intact and give the haters no reason to hate, than to have no integrity and give the haters every reason to hate and not spend the rest of their lives with you in such an intimate relationship.

There may be or may not be women who will leave you because of this kind of baggage. I can't predict the future. But with your integrity glued back together again, they honestly have no reason to dump you and i'd have nothing to do with them. Everyone has some sort of skeleton in their closet that is quite scandalous. Your integrity is the key to give no one a reason to dislike you. The right woman is the one that will acknowledge your admition that you were wrong and your sincerity to stay loyal to her in spite of your history...

...Or this never becomes a problem in the first place. Again, I can't predict the future.
 
I am 23.

Thanks, peeps. I feel better now, that crazy anxiety is gone and I have a pretty good picture of what to do next. That being: nothing. I was afraid of doing the wrong move whether it was going for her or not. Since pretty much everyone here and irl agree it is a bad idea, I won't.

Also, for future reference, I can take a slap in the face so if you feel the need of using hard words, by all means do so. I hate sugar-coating.

Yes, this is what I was told by people irl. Thanks for erasing my doubts.


quotations
Just what the fuck are you talking about?

liked this thread because i liked glen's post. only posted to say: gl yuri, you're a good guy
Thanks, I appreciate that kiddo.

Again, I've been told all those things before but apparently lost track of them. Thank you for making me remember.

op is evil
I actually see where you are going there and I seriously think it is noble of you but that is not going to happen.
 
Sometimes in the rush of emotions and hormones and giddiness that you feel when you first meet a person who you click with, you forget to think it through. I'm happy that you're slowly finding your footing (although I would argue that you're probably not as fine as you're making out to be 24 hours after getting that much of a load off your chest). But, keep that chin up, twin soul. <3

I'm not going to give you relationship advice, because I think you KNOW what you need to do; you're just agonizing over the decision.

At the end, it's your decision. I just want you to remember a few things:
1. You can't fake love (if what you really want is the comfort of having someone there/sexual satisfaction, eventually that is going to come out and the longer you wait it out the worse it's going to be);
2. The only people who really know what's going on in a relationship are the parties involved, everyone else just get brief (and usually one-sided) snapshots, just remember there's a reason why couples get together (and/or are together) and usually there are REALLY good reasons for why they didn't work out;
3. Events reveal people's characters (not everyone who has been cheated on cheats; not everyone who is in a "bad" relationship cheats, etc).

This will teach me to never work again, :P I miss out on all the IMPORTANT things. <3 Also, when did you get so old? :( Just another reminder that I'm getting OLD!
 
Read the whole thing, man. I totally feel for you. Good luck with whatever decision you make. Just make sure to think what will be best for the both of you in the long run.
 
I've always been old!

I am actually feeling much better than before, honest. Only typing that out relived a lot of tension and the fact I got coherent opinions gives me more confidence on what to to next.

Thank you for the kind words, Anita! To prove I am not gloomy anymore here's a smile
 
I can only speak for myself, but I know that I have often confused my empathic desire to protect a woman from her problems for love. I have also grown attached to women through a physical relationship, even when I know that those women are not right for me. I can tell you that neither of these scenarios have ended well for anyone involved.

However, that doesn't mean necessarily you should ignore your feelings and give up on this woman because of her issues. All women will have issues. Just as you can find another woman to love if you do decide to forget about this one, you can also find a way to make things work if you decide to pursue her. Just know that the latter option will be much more difficult, with a greater likelihood of ending badly. On the other hand, it may also result in greater happiness than you would have otherwise known.

When it comes to issues like this, there are no real right or wrong answers. It all comes down to how much risk you can tolerate, and how willing you are to possibly sacrifice a few years of your life for a shot at happiness with a woman you think you love. I may personally choose not to pursue this relationship, but it doesn't make you an idiot if you choose otherwise.
 
Even though you're apparently improving now, and even though I hate to sound like a broken record, I read it and have no idea what to tell you but good luck, I hope things work out for the best, not only for you but for Mary and her family as well.

Other than that all I can say is, in regards to relationships, if you ever feel like you may be going in over your head, you are. Don't do something you will really regret in life (if you haven't hit that point already, not trying to be mean, just saying it how it is). I personally think that you should put this behind you and learn as much as you possibly can from it, and don't hesitate to teach others what you learned (you might not devulge as much information in this case but you could prevent something like this from happening to them too)
 
best of luck with this, don't have much else to say :( but i can appreciate the time/effort spent into posting all of that (especially since your thoughts were probably going into overdrive as you were typing it out)
 
While I often give advice out, I'm pretty terrible at following my own advice, and it makes me such a huge hypocrite but I feel I can understand this situation a bit because I don't ever follow my own advice. In my heartfelt opinion, I think you need to end the relationship and just move on from her. What Glen says is true, distance yourself from problems like this, Mary is emotionally weak and while there is always a part of us that wishes to fix things for the better, I don't think we should take it upon ourselves to do so. There are relationships we need to just remove ourselves from for the better despite things being kind of okay, this seems like one of those. She may have given you things that you never experienced before but the relationship as a whole is wrought with problems. You're one of my pals here on Smogon, so I definitely wish you the best.
 
im a lil buzzed, bare with me.. but this is interesting

One thing that bugs me is that I never felt a warm, fuzzy feeling around her. I felt very comfortable and, say, unshackled. This never changed. I think I never really had a crush or anything and now I feel guilty for that.

We grew more and more attached to each other, both as friends and as lovers. Today I can assure you she is the sweetest and most understanding person I have ever met and is someone I care a lot about. I felt I could talk about anything with her and so did she. We shared our views, hopes and fears on many subjects and had deep respect for each other.
Normal. Girls and guys can be the bestest friends and not like each other. Doesnt mean both sex had interest at some point. I know in my mindset, I meet and talk to girls just for the sake of my needs to attract the opposite sex. Over time tho, things change depending on your situation and you just start moving on with your life. In your case, im speculating that the fact that she was married and unstable drove you away from you liking her. But it could also be the fact that you have other priorities and trying to be get into a relationship isnt your primary need. Lastly, I dont wanna sound mean, but in a way you might have a sort of insecureness for yourself so you just dont expect people to dedicate their time to you.

We never hold any illusion on our relationship, though. We knew from day one it had no future and agreed that either one could terminate it at any time. One thing that pissed me off is how she constantly reminded me of that and that she wanted me to get a real girlfriend. I am still not sure why she mentioned it so often.
Shes unstable. People at one point come to their senses and say one thing. But when they are stressed, they say a different thing. You should try to recognize her stress level and facial expressions when she says specific things. Hard to explain in words cause I just have a innate ability to recognize certain qualities in people after a certain time.

But Mary is an insecure woman. She even told me she is deathly afraid of being alone. In my view, that is the biggest reason for her not divorcing, much bigger than the others. I told her that was bullshit, she was a beautiful and interesting woman and the opinion of others don't matter. She got better with time, I like to think it was in part my words of incentive but perhaps it was the simple fact a guy was giving her the attention she needed and that boosted her confidence. But it doesn't matter, she was taking bolder decisions and I was glad for that. She even cut her hair short! Hey, it was a big deal for her and I felt very proud.
This is great and your on point. As of right now, she is very insecure and she just wants anyone and most importantly the person she trusts at that moment to give her the extra boost of confidence. Because she trusted you and you gave her a sense of energy, she took extra steps on decision making. All it takes is little steps to realize what you want, positive or/ negative depending on the individual.

As you can see, part of me wanted her to divorce her husband but at the same time I know it'd be unfair to give her false hopes. This is probably because, damn, she was the first woman to ever like me, I was in a rush of feelings I had never experienced. Good thing I was still thinking with the correct head.
If I was in your situation, I would tell her to divorce her husband too. But I dont know her situation and how it may involve you. If lets say she indeed does listen to your advice, she might fall more in love with you or finally realize specific things and become a more stable individual. Up to you

Next week she broke up with me. The one thing that shouldn't have happened came to be: she realised she was falling for me. Since it was our agreement, I had no right to claim and accepted it stoically. I was, however, a little sad. I understand that such sadness may have been legit or only because I had lost my only means of sex. I am trying to be objective here, at the end of the day I am still human and still a man, and the flesh is weak. But let me tell you how delightfully ironic it is to hear "you are perfect and I love you and because of that we must part ways".
Complicated. Im best guessing she broke up with you because she doesn't want you to be to involved in her life because she cares for you too much. And she knows shes spiraling down. Or also she realizes she is just using you for her own needs and it doesnt seem fair for a person that she thinks as of a true friend. Complicated, sometimes best friends just cant be couples, but best friends make the perfect couple. Complicated.



That was just the introduction. Now my problem begins.
Oh lord...

It's been about two months since and I am starting to miss her a lot. It's even ridiculous. I think about it everywhere, everytime. When I am at work, when I am at university, when I am trying to sleep... I keep telling myself it is my body missing her, not my heart. But, damn, what do I know? I keep having these sexual and other fantasies and I feel like an idiot for that. It is over, move on, I tell myself, it is only your sex drive.But I will be damned if I don't want her back.
Natural feeling for some people. You just get so attached to one person that you just dont wanna go back because so so used to it now. Your use to being around her, your use to having sex with her. But most importantly, this probably your first real connection with someone and this feeling you had with her is unlike anyone else. You desperately try to find it others, but you cant because your either thinking about her too much or trying to exert yourself too much by all this thinking and even some actions you took.

You can't take these memories away. Some of these memories will probably be some of the most important in your life as a stepping stone or even more. Best to take these experiences and accept it to improve your worst qualities or best qualities. For me, the best thing to move on is just accepting this is how life is. Things come and go, but there more exciting things in life to come. Then, youll be less worried about stuff and youll be focusing on whats important. Or.. you can be like me and just be a major flirt with different girls.. but thats a pain and gets me thinking im straying away from my real goals sometimes. But hey.. its fun and its good practice.

Mary and I have a friend in common who I will call Ana. The three of us are good friends and she knows everything. She is mostly a friend of Mary, though. One of these days we were talking about Mary and she told me one thing that only now is having a disturbing effect on me: Ana said that probably if I assured Mary I'd be there for her she'd divorce. That is quite a bit of responsibility.
Changes things a little.. makes the situation less complicated the reason she mighta broke up with you. She just didnt want you to be involved in her unstable life. But divorce is a huge step for her and she wants you to be there for support. Whatever happens after, its your choices.

But damnit, what next? Is she going to wait for her mother to die so she can divorce? Is she going to wake up in ten, fifteen years and realise how empty her marriage has been. I don't believe she is happy in her marriage.
Thats life, some people can take a minute to realize that they need to get out of this situation. Some 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 50 years, or never. Depends on the people around them, but most importantly how strong they are mentally. I believe you can make a difference, but thats a risk that may get you hurt. If it was me and a close friend or gf desperately needed soul searching, ill die for them to find the answer.

The worst is that I can't tell her that. That'd be giving false hopes and generaly screwing her mind and spirit. I can't do that. I wish I could.

What Ana told me is making me nervous. Do I possess such power? Can I really have her back so easily? I know I have no right to do that. The marriage is a very big deal to Mary, I can't simply ignore that.
Why can't you? Are you scared? Do you think you have no power over her fate? I think you can, but like I said.. its risky to get involved in this. Drama is bound to further. You decide whats better.. trying to go back to your own life with all these memories and maybe even thinking what could have happen. Or get in there and help her out. In my opinion, you care for her alot because she is a very important person to you and you dont want her to suffer anymore.


Part of me wants to simply say "I love you" but that'd be the easy way out. What do I know? Do something stupid and blame it on love? I am not that low.
If saying I love you is easy way out, then you were right all along. You dont love her, you just love the needs that she gives to you. You feel important being around her. Doesn't mean you cant find something else. But if you do help her out of her mental instability, you can also do something greater for yourself and her, doesnt mean you two have to be in a relationship in the future. There isnt just two options here where all they give you if I go to her and help or ignore her and try to forget. You can help her out, but still not try to get too involved with her in the future.

I fear I might have become something I hate.
Part of life and growing up.

One thing I've considered is to engage in another relationship and see if I can placate this feeling. There is a problem though: this is the hardest thing in the world for me. I am perhaps a love-shy person. That is to say I am HORRIBLE at dealing with the opposite sex. I can't. I've tried and I just can't. I become incredibly anxious, nervous, irritable. I can't even talk, a huge lump forms in my throat. But I am aware that blaming it on some random psychological disorder is lame and the easy way out, even though I do identify with some of the "symptoms". But it could be self-suggestion.
I even suggested that you try different woman. For me, its easy. I have the self-confidence in myself and ability to communicate with anyone, not just girls. I understand if you are the shy-type. I use to be a shy type back when i was like 14 even tho I had a wide group of friends. But being shy aint worth it. Your missing out on a lot of things in life. You can live back in the shadows.. but youll never be able to see what lies beyond.

I don't know what to do. My guts tell me to try and convince Mary to come back but my brain tells me this is wrong. At any rate, this is something I needed to talk and organizing this mess of thoughts in words has helped imensely in calming me down. If you read until here, I greatly appreciate it.
Whats wrong is that getting in this situation, took you out of your comfort zone. Can be a bad thing, but hypotheically speaking this a great thing. Getting out of your comfort zone expands your point of life, changes your life and should become a more stronger individual. You probably dont see her as your wife or w/e in the future. But that doesnt mean you can try to calm her down and be a great friend to her.

You shouldnt believe some of these guys that are saying you should distance yourself away. You are just running away from your problems. When will you ever learn to stick up for yourself when a situation attacks you head-on. It may seem like I am rooting for you to go after her. But honestly, I dont know your situation well enough because I am not you. In the end, people are able to solve their problems by their own thinking and friends are there to help soothe your mind so you can make the better decision. My personality is also different than yours, so I would do stuff that normally you wouldnt. All in all, I hoped I helped in some way. I like that smogon has something seriously interesting and important like this topic once in a while.
 
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