Resource SS NU Viability Ranking Thread

[Laroxyl]

B------>B+

I think braviary should be ranked higher. It has good both defensive and offensive stats with a nice speed that can outspeed enough mons ranked above. It has also a good coverage with bbird, roost, bulk up, spower, sub, defog, uturn...
The combination of bulk up and its bulk helps it to tank a lot of mons and used with sub it avoids toxic users which is really important for its sweep.
The other nice set is spower offensive. Although you dont avoid toxic users, you can do instant damage on steels/rocks like tyrantrum or copperajah + more speed helps outspeeding more mons. Compared with B mons it is really better and more useful and that is why I think it should be ranked more.

B------>B-

I have tried this mon, but sadly it is completely walled by steels + there are a lot of defoggers/spinners that are really good against it like talonflame / dhelmise / starmie (psy/ibeam). I think this is less useful than spikers like garbodor or coalossal.

B+----->A-

I feel like this mon should be a bit higher. Nice coverage, nice offensive stats, nice speed, nice type, access to sd, koff, pjab, eq, taunt... what else?
It also doesnt find difficulties to setup. Also checking cresselia, salazzle, ghost types (that have grown a lot after bewear, pangoro ban) makes it really good and definitely better than B+ mons.

B------>B-

I dont really like this mon, I have tried it and built around it, but it is really difficult to make a team with it cuz it needs a lot of support / volturn / free switchins. Although its spatk and ability are really good, the lack of good defenses + not a really good speed and a bad type (taking damage from all mons without any resist) makes it really shit and imo worse than B mons.

B- ------>B

I think this mon is better than B- mons. After banning 2 fights, its usage incresed a lot. In core with spikers makes it really good with good offensive stats, an amazing speed and ability, good coverage with bslam, cc (for rocks / steels), throat chop (for ghosts / bronzong), eq.
There are definitely less counters / checks for it and it should be ranked a bit more cuz imo it is probably better than B- mons.

 

[roxie]

Bouffalant (Unranked -> C/C-).

Set

el toro (Bouffalant) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 176 SpD / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam / Throat Chop
- Earthquake / Throat Chop

I've recently been testing Bouffalant from PU and it's pretty nice. Its dual immunity for Ghost- and Grass-type moves allows it to manipulate specifically Dhelmise and Decidueye which standardly uses those specific coverages to setup. 56 Speed outpaces Appletun in PU and after I make some more progress, maybe that 56 speed isn't as optimal. I do also shoutout Choice Band Head Charge which has crept ladder but I feel like the only reason to ever even touch this Pokemon is for its Sap Sipper + Ghost-typing. Davon has recently tested Drampa with Sap Sipper and it pretty much does the same thing in terms of its role in NU. I meant to post this yesterday (before the suspect & ban but w.e ;w;). This faces a tad competition from Braviary and Tauros(but doesn't have Sap Sipper)

Replays:
Replays - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
Replays - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)

 

[Expulso]

somehow outclassed by ninjask L

Having just used Scyther in NUL (and losing a bunch to my friend TMM when he used it in tests), I can say that it absolutely deserves to be ranked for the following reasons:
- Knock off!! This is HUGE versus teams with flying resist Copper or Diancie, which hate losing their item. it also punishes the Fire-types that could otherwise threaten it out, like arcanine and talonflame.
- Threatening Cresselia: it can reliably come in on setup cress’s hits, take ~25-30 at +0, and threaten it out with a knock, STAB u-turn, and possibly SD if you desperately need to solo it (though uturning to a strong breaker is usually enough to handle cress). Most run Roost, so you should be able to heal up on it too
- Very strong STAB: 120 BP Dual Wingbeat is a huge improvement over Ninjask’s 80 BP, letting it do ~42-50 to defensive walls like sylveon and mantine; on top of Knock and Uturn, this is significant progress!

I think scyther is a B rank mon. Honestly, it’s prob been b+ level in the games i’ve used it, but B is fine with me. We have very few flying resists in the tier — the most common electric type by far is rotom-mow (which dies), ttrum/aero/diancie are not that common and hate losing their item, and steels like copper/zong dont handle it at all.

Give Scyther a try! It can be devastating vs fatter teams while still finding opportunities vs offense (e.g. coming in vs fighters and flygon, or with the aid of the tier’s many pivots)


====


@ Finch’s reply below: Fair enough, with faster offensive threats like Lazzle and Starmie its speed tier is a problem, as is minimal defensive utility (basically limited to fighting and ground attacks / rly weak stuff such as a cress moonblast). I’ve also found it a massive pain to switch into, so i’m convinced it is a threat; B-/C+ is fine though for the reasons u mentioned

 

[Finchinator]

My main gripe with Scyther is the lack of defensive presence in a metagame where we are forced to make lots defensively out of each team slot due to the sheer number of threats to account for. I saw it on the ladder the other day and it absolutely carried its weight offensively, so I do not doubt claims that it is viable. The thing is that on more fast paced, revenge killing oriented teams, Ninjask is usually the better pick. On balanced teams, you usually forgo a Pokemon like this unless specifically building around it in order to make it work. Given the strength of Dual Wingbeat and offensive presence, I am happy to re-rank it and I personally will vote as such if given the option, but I think C or B- may be more representative than B+ or even B due to it being harder to justify than higher ranked options.

 

[Catalisador]

Hello, guys. I'm back to the NU metagame after a small hiatus and I'm here to suggest some small VR changes, mainly due to consistency and changes in metagame trends.

DROPS​

B+ -> B

Making a comparison to other pokémon in the B+ tier, Machamp doesn't provide as much utility as Mudsdale, Arcanine and Vaporeon nor does it have as much as a unique niche as these pokémon do. It is usually outclassed by Sirfetch'd, despite its ability to swap between moves without losing a 1.5x boost thanks to Guts and access to great coverage the duck lacks such as Heavy Slam, Facade and Bullet Punch. I more often than not feel like a Leek Sirfetch'd might do just as good as a job as a Machamp on a team, personally.


C+ -> C

For the sake of consistency, I'd drop pincurchin a rank with other hyper offense condition setters such as Aurorus and Vanilluxe. Plus, Electric Terrain is nowhere near as good and consistent as Hail is right now, specially with the departure of Mienshao leaving little to check the mighty Arctovish. Furthermore, not having a backup setter means playing terrain is much riskier and playing around recklessly with your Pincurchin will punish you hard.


B- -> C+/C

With Mienshao gone, one of Weezing's most unique niches also goes with it. It is still a very solid pokémon and is able to punish the likes of Tyrantrum and Copperajah very well while providing great utility.


C -> UR

I personally love Garbodor for its ability to punish Copperajah and access to Spikes, but it offers very little else in the current metagame. Being setup fodder for Cresselias is never good in, well, a Cresselia meta.


C -> UR

I also love Runerigus and am gonna keep spamming it but, let's face it, it was mainly used as an emergency Mienshao/Bewear check with Stealth Rock utility and great defensive typing. Right now, it only fulfills its niche of stealing abilities to cause chaos versus Tyrantrum and is greatly outclassed by other Ground-types such as Mudsdale or even Palossand.


A+ -> A/A-

Another pokémon that suffers with Mienshao's departure and Hail and Cresselias rises to the top as well as the new Braviary trend. It doesn't provide as much utility as it once did to warrant the A+ tier, in my opinion, but it is still a solid defensive glue pokémon.

RISES​

B -> B+

A rising trend, Braviary is an amazing win-condition and defog-deterrant pokémon. It is also a fantastic check to the mighty Decidueye and Dhelmise and definitely should see a rise.


C -> C+

With Hail's rise and Mienshao gone, Sandslash is a nice secondary win-condition for those archetypes.


B- -> B+

A veeery potent breaker. The departure of Mienshao leaves very little that can check this pokémon offensively, while most defensive answers crumble to common coverage.


C+ -> B-

I love this pokémon! Absolutely love Gigalith thanks to its ability to punish common hail structures (bar Arctovish and Decidueye) by removing the weather and walling the setters/secondary attackers (Dragalge). It is also an amazing check to all of the low-key busted Salazzle variants (which is something veeery rare to find!), even SubToxic, thanks to Rock Blast. Definitely give it a try.

NOMINATIONS​

UR -> C

With Mienshao gone and no good broken scarfers around, Turtonator has an easier time sweeping. I've been messing around with it and it is a very solid pokémon right now and I'd love to hear your guys's opinions on it! :)

 

[Elias PSY]

: A -> S

Top 3 best mons of the tier.Defensive sets are easy to fit on teams thanks to his useful resistances to top threats like salazzle,mowtom and blastoise ,being able to slow pivot around steels or setting toxic spikes on weak defensive mons which is great with the rises hails teams (there isn't toxic spikes remover who can directly switch on dragalge).Not only good defensive traits but also near impossible to take advantage of it offensively thanks to its obnoxious actual offensive presence with adaptability and stabs only resisted by steels and thus forces passive plays meaning he often take momentum with flip turn or setting toxic spikes.
While not as common,choice specs sets are also overwhelming when not running into escavalier+ wish sylveon and still keep enough defensive utility to come, hit and run through defensive mons and choice locked threats.
Sure it has lackuster speed but has the bulk to prevent being revenge killed by unboosted threats.
Some calcs :

Vs "Choice Specs"

252 Atk Sirfetch’d Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge on a critical hit: 221-261 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Decidueye Poltergeist (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 171-202 (63 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Drapion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 186-220 (68.6 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Braviary Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 207-244 (76.3 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Silvally-Ghost Multi-Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragalge: 172-204 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Being able to sport both high offensive and defensive presence and get momentum make it hard to effectively check through the game while not packing steel+fairy cores,it's hard to go wrong wrong with it
Better than current A+ mons.

: A+ -> A-

Mienshao ban,the rise of hail teams and braviary being more common doesn't help vileplume who can't reliably use moonlight or strength sap respectively.Also unreliable fighting resist when the main one sirfetch'd doesn't care about it if brave bird.Very passive after using using sleep powder.He can annoy steels with corrosive gas but rely too much on effect spore to take on physicals threats.

:B+ -> A-

The main (and only?) reliable check we got for hail crew.Also flip turn is nice for balanced let it wish pass without risk and keep momentum unlike sylveon.It has other interesting options on haze for checking slows sweepers,heal bell cleric or even ice beam to dent dragalge.Decent mon atm.

: A+ -> A

Slight drop for vaporeon's fairy counterpart.Wish sets are are harder to justify over vaporeon with the hail trends and the prevalance of escavalier and drapion.
However choice specs set is a potent breaker but can't more benefit from its resistances and thus should be at the same rank as others breaker in A rank.

 

[Pokeslice]

I thought I would break in the VR thread after the Cress ban since it still feels outdated from even the Shao meta

A+ --> B+

This is probably going to be the largest drop on this list, but Plume fell off HARD. In the recent Shao meta, it was the best answer to that demon, and since most other Fighting types were either invalidated by Shao or barely seen because of Cress, this mon had a fun time. Now however, both our Fighting breakers in Fetch'd and Machamp beat it, making its defensive qualities kind of useless atm. On top of that, the rise in Defiant mons in Brav+Pass and an uptick in Magic Bounce Xatu (in addition to other already common anti-strength sap tech) have made Plume even harder to justify. The only reason I wouldn't drop it lower is because Scarf Passimian has seen a ton of recent usage, making it still usable, but definitely not A+

A+ --> A

This movement is simply because Mowtom simply isn't better or more splashable than most of A tier at the moment. With the Shao and Cress bans, scarf sets get a lot better, but so do all of A. Imo, Dragalge, Starmie, Talon, and Flygon are all better mons atm and none are A+. Recently, the meta has slowly moved away from more offensive builds to bulkier, hurting part of what makes Mowtom's stock so good with that, in theory, unblockable Volt Switch. I think with the Cress ban offense gets opened up a ton, but right now, it isn't an A+ mon.

A+ --> A+/A

I think Sylveon falls under the same category as Mowtom right now. Yes it's good, but it just isn't necessarily better than the A tier mons, especially now that it's facing fierce competition from Vaporeon, and even Diancie, as a cleric. Those metagame trends have recently made it a lot easier to replace on teams, although now it's the only reliable Sirfetch'd switch in, meaning that I believe in time it'll potentially overtake Vap again. That's why I'm split on where I would rank it. Atm, to me it's A, but in the next two weeks or so, I see it being A+, especially if Hail leaves soon.

A+ --> A+

As you can probably tell, I've made it so that this mon is now alone in A+, and yes, that was on purpose. In this meta, Salazzle is so clearly above every other A+/A mon with its fantastic speed tier, typing, ability, and breaking/sweeping potential. Oh, and fuck those SubTox sets that 6-0 teams. I don't think it's an S level mon like Copper simply because of its splashability, but it is definitely a bigger threat and better mon than all of the mons below it and I believe the VR should reflect that.

A --> A-

I think the hype on this mon is wayyy overblown. Is it strong? Well duh, but its underlying weaknesses make it a lot harder to use and easier to handle than it seems. I've found getting TTrum in to be a pain, and when coupled with Head Smash accuracy+the rise of Ground's and Steel's to make spamming HS hard, you don't have many chances to reliably pick up KO's. It is also revenged by majority of the tier, including, but not limited to, all our scarfers, Fighters, and any special attacker. It just isn't on the same level as the rest of A

A- --> A

This is now the best breaker in the tier. As we learnt from Goro, in NU, Fighting breakers are basically impossible to wall, and fetch'd is no exception. With a phenomenal speed tier for a breaker, FI, and Scrappy CC's, nothing, bar Talon and Sylveon, can realistically switch in, and even those two hate getting knocked off. Just an all around amazing mon before the Cress ban, and with it gone, The Duck Knight deserves to rise.

B+ --> B

Similarly to Plume, this is an old meta relic on the VR. Defensive sets used to be top tier because of Intimidate, Teleport, and reliable recovery, but now those are barely usable with Scrappy CC's and Defiant all over. I would put it even lower, especially because it often becomes a liability in games, but I have yet to actually test out offensive Arc, although when I play it, it will do nothing at all. I'm just not a fan of this mon right now sadly :(

B+ --> B-

PU this mon already ;__; In my eyes, its only niche was semi checking Cress, although even this was iffy, and outside the Cress matchup, it is often dead weight, especially with just how weak it is. I have never once used Drapion and been satisfied with the results and I believe it belongs with the fringe viable mons like Toxicroak down in B-, although Toxicroak is WAY better atm. Drapion could end up with a solid niche for stopping the rise of Psychic mons and stuff like Decid, but there's just so much that I would pick before it, like Braviary or Guzzlord, that do the same things but better. It's always outclassed as a T Spike setter by Dragalge. I was really let down by Drapion when it dropped and I still am.

B+ --> A-

Vaporeon has quickly cemented itself as a fantastic addition to the tier, able to stop Stoise, Hail, random Intel, etc, all while acting as a cleric who spreads Scalds and Toxics everywhere. You can't go wrong with Vap on your team, and it deserves to rise, especially as the meta trends in its favor.

B+ --> B-

I wish this was good, but it just isn't. It's constantly too weak, too frail, or too predictable, making it a pain to pull off reliably. Zoro is the definition of a theorymon, but sadly, like most theorymons, it falls flat in practice. There's also a good amount of faster threats and FI atm, and it has a hard time with those. It definitely isn't on the same level as the B+ mons nor is it as reliable or good as even the B ones.

B --> A-

I love Braviary right now. It's fast, bulky, strong, and Defiant is amazing, making it a top tier threat. I personally abuse Defog sets the most, but the potent sets are Sub BU. That set can dominate unprepped teams or ones that don't expect it, and since it can set up on most defensive cores, its sweeping potential is through the roof. With the variety and potency of its sets, I believe Brav has to be higher up.

B- --> A/A-

I take it back, this is the largest jump on the list. The original B- ranking for Arcto was for the Shao meta where Hail, and subsequently Vish, were considered match up fishy at best. Now, it has risen FAR beyond that matchup fish with the Shao ban , reliably dominating teams. I personally believe that this mon is busted on Hail, but it isn't hail itself, and it should be a LOT higher, either A or A-. Stop snubbng Arcto and give it the spotlight because, after getting reqs with it, I can tell you it deserves it.

B- --> B

An interesting choice in the meta, but the potential to be really good. Specs sets can break through teams pretty reliably, especially when coupled with Intel's fantastic speed tier. Crit sets are super cool too, having the potential to break through our bulky waters with a little chip and beat a lot of teams. It's overall a solid pick and definitely better than the B- mons.

/ C/C+ --> UR

Neither of these mons have done anything or seen any play in the last month or so. Sneasel you might have seen a bit and could stay C, but Zard is entirely outclassed and overall pretty bad.

UR NOM

UR --> B+

I sadly haven't saved replays of this mon, but I think its role and niche has been well documented by everyone in the tier to the point that I won't need them. With Shao gone, the Scarf Fighting pivot role has been filled by Passimian. It has quickly become a tier favorite and a threatening presence that can be splashed onto a ton of teams. I think B+ is the perfect spot for it.

Other Discussion

/ /

Psychic types in general just got WAY better with Cress leaving. Honestly, I had no clue where to rank them at the moment, but I see every single one of them getting better. What do you think?

/

On the same note, so do Fighting types, but in the same vein, I still don't know why I would use Machamp over Sirfetch'd when it is slower, doesn't have good priority, and doesn't have Scrappy. How do you guys feel about the two?

 

[Corthius]

yay VR time kinda doing my own thing but also kinda replying to Pokeslice.

A+ --> A

This movement is simply because Mowtom simply isn't better or more splashable than most of A tier at the moment. With the Shao and Cress bans, scarf sets get a lot better, but so do all of A. Imo, Dragalge, Starmie, Talon, and Flygon are all better mons atm and none are A+. Recently, the meta has slowly moved away from more offensive builds to bulkier, hurting part of what makes Mowtom's stock so good with that, in theory, unblockable Volt Switch. I think with the Cress ban offense gets opened up a ton, but right now, it isn't an A+ mon.

stay in A+
I personally don't get that drop, especially since you refer to a 'VR after the Cress ban'. The ban of Cresselia enables a lot of offensive pokemon to really shine which were held back (best example is Sirfetch'd) and having unblockable Volt Switch is very valuable to get these now better breaker in. On top of that, from my battle experience, Rotom-Mow has a great typing, being able to come in on bulky water and ground types and scare them out with its STAB attacks.
I would've agreed on this drop when we still had Cresselia but right now I think good/bulky pivots are really strong if you pair them with a fitting breaker.

C+ -->B-/B
I am adoring this pokemon a lot. Cresselia was the sturdiest answer to its terrain sets and the decrease of Vileplume usage really benefits it as it isn't able to break that. Setting up for an endgame sweep with Hitmonlee is far from impossible and not really hard either since its damage is already pretty good even w/o +1 attack. Unburden sets in general seem very scary which don't rely on terrain and might make a splash on offensive teams. Good coverage for the 'standard' fighting checks at the moment too. Its coverage and speed also allows it to run a Choice Scarf set while Reckless HJK is for sure risky it also has high damage output. Being faster than Choice Scarf Rotom-Mow also makes it a cool lategame cleaner.

B+ --> A-
I hope this is not only due to the fact that im craving for this pokemon atm. Guzzlord has many good things going for it that set it apart from other B+ pokemon (I don't count Machamp nor Vaporeon, they deserve higher imo, maybe even Mudsdale). It has a great dual typing for the current metagame, allowing it to check common pokemon varying from Decidueye over Salazzle to defensive pokemon like Vaporeon. Knock Off is amazing this generation and spamming it always gets something out of the turn. Access to amazing coverage which basically makes it impossible to not get hit at least for neutral damage makes it an offensive threat to be reckoned with. Utility in Toxic allows Guzzlord a more defensive approach to pressure physical pokemon like Mudsdale and Vaporeon. It really deserves more love in my opinion.

A- --> A/A+
A+ might look a bit high and I would totally get if you disagree but I've been spamming Vaporeon on pretty much every team and every time I don't use it I wish I would. Packing big 130HP Wishes is amazing for balanced/stall teams to keep your walls like Copperajah and Mudsdale healthy, while Heal Bell also turns Vaporeon into a good clearic. Toxic is a great option too which allows you to not fall flat versus opposing water absorb pokemon. Scald is well known for being somewhat bonkers.

/

On the same note, so do Fighting types, but in the same vein, I still don't know why I would use Machamp over Sirfetch'd when it is slower, doesn't have good priority, and doesn't have Scrappy. How do you guys feel about the two?

Good question. Machamp has the benefit of switching moves when you don't predict right versus certain slower defensive pokemon like Sylveon or Vileplume. You also don't have to pack a clearic for a potential burn from Flame Body etc. Due to Guts it can also act as a Assault Vest tank to check and punish pokemon like Vaporeon that use Scald versus e.g. your Mudsdale.
While those are valid 'benefits' I would never put the two in the same rank. Sirfetch'd's breaking power is just too big and while Machamp allows an easier time versus a wrong prediction, with so many good pivots like Rotom-Mow and Dragalge it's not hard to get Sirfetch'd in again to get another chance + you hardly predict with these two anyway; from my experience you predict once a game and spam Close Combat after anyway.
Defensively, there are no ghost types anyway (at least for now) so I don't feel like valuing Scrappy too much other than ignoring Arcanine's Intimidate.

B- --> B
Another pokemon that benefits from the increase of Vaporeon's usage and the ban of Cresselia. Celebi has a great utility movepool and really good coverage (e.g. Aura Sphere, Earth Power, Shadow Ball, Dazzling Gleam) for offensive sets too. It can act as a status absorber, literally not caring about any move Gastrodon or Vaporeon go for. Nasty Plot sets have the potential to become really strong as the scarf uturner aren't as common at the moment and being able to pick what you want to hit. Maybe even Choice Scarf sets can have their merits as it would be one of the faster scarfer rn even outspeeding Arctovish in hail and access to Trick/Healing Wish/U-turn.


Discussion points:

/ /

Psychic types in general just got WAY better with Cress leaving. Honestly, I had no clue where to rank them at the moment, but I see every single one of them getting better. What do you think?

:)

Are there other pokemon that got better? Tell us either in here by nominating them (read the rules) or post about them in the NP Thread!

 

[Rabia]

We're doing a very minor update to rank Passimian at B+. It does a fairly good job of filling the void left by Mienshao, albeit to an obviously less effective degree due to the loss of speed and Regenerator. While some of us voiced the opinion that Passimian probably could/should go higher, we ultimately decided to be conservative with its initial placement.

Expect the next VR update to happen sometime after the April tier shifts :)

 

[roxie]

A+ -> B+. With Machamp and Sirfetch'd on the rise, it cannot switch into them without being hit by a Brave Bird (possible OHKO) or 2HKOed by Machamp. I feel like Effect Spore was nice to possibly catch Mienshao but its hard to justify it "in the same tier as Sylveon" with Mienshao gone.

B -> B. Exploud shouldn't drop with Cresselia being banned especially. Boomburst is able to hit Steel-types like Bronzong and Copperajah and entry hazard support really allows this to be a nice wallbreaker. It also has Overheat if you predict Copperajah to switch in. Here are some calculations:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Overheat vs. 212 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 332-392 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 212 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 134-158 (30.5 - 36%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (I think some Copperjahs are starting to use some more offensive investment with Cress gone but its nothing wrong with spd psure)

B+ -> A-. Vaporeon is one of the main Pokemon that can counter Arctovish but has to be aware of Freeze Dry + Toxic Spikes on the field. Pair it with a Steel mon and it's a decent matchup against hail teams.

UR -> B+. Passimian filled in Mienshao's role after being banned and I agree with the nominations above. No Regenerator :( But CC / Knock / u-turn / Gunk or Slide is nice. About to make a choice band team rn ;w;

I agree with a lot more (and I most likely reacted to your post as opposed to echoing).

e: I was typing this as the passimian post was posted lmfao

 

[Segetarius]

After some playing in the new meta, I have determined a few things I feel are justifiable on the VR:

B+ -> A-
This thing is just so good atm. Being a dark that lost hard to Cress was the big thing holding this mon back, and with Cress gone, it can go wild. Among other things, it provides STAB Knock Off, a Dark ad Ghost resist, and some fat bulk. While you're not going to be taking CCs, you can eat all the resisted moves (and there are a lot of those) all day long and even a good chunk of stronger neutral attacks. All the while, you'll be crippling the switch-ins with Knock Off and Toxic. The last two moves are also pretty flexible to fill any holes you need; Heavy Slam for Fairies, Heat Crash for Steels, Protect/Resttalk for longevity, Draco Meteor for second strong STAB, etc. Just can't sing enough praises about this thing in the current meta.

B- -> B/B+
Honestly, the only drawback I've experienced playing with this mon is that it really requires a balance/defensive team. With the rise of Fighting types, Weezing is here to dominate offense all day. Being able to wall so many scary offensive mons, especially Sirfetch'd given the right tools, is invaluable right now. Additionally, offense right now is in a bit of an odd spot where really the only thing they have that can absorb Toxic Spikes is Dragalge and Salazzle, which don't fit on every form of offense. I can't really describe in words how satisfying it is to watch most Dual Screens and Terrain teams just fall apart since you can lay Toxic Spikes while forcing out a lot of physical threats. After the mandatory Sludge Bomb/Toxic Spikes/Will-o-Wisp, you can run Rest for recovery (I find Vaporeon to be an excellent partner), Pain Split to act as a stallbreaker, coverage, etc. And then there's the whole Neutralizing Gas thing to absorb Toxic Spikes yourself and set them against Espeon and deactivate power boosting abilities.

C -> B-/B
This mon is super underrated. If you are running BO or balance and you want to run a rocker besides Copperajah and Bronzong, allow me to introduce Steelvally. I recognize that Copperajah is really good right now (just a little overrated imo), but this mon is a mon I consider whenever I'm building something a little sturdier. It provides all the defensive utility of Copperajah without the issue of speed. In terms of offense, it still hits decently hard since it does have excellent coverage between Multi-Attack and Flamethrower. In terms of utility, it's the only usable Steel with a switch move (Cata, if you start telling me Togedemaru is viable, you're wrong). With a simple set of Multi-Attack/Defog/Flamethrower/U-turn or Parting Shot with a simple max HP, [insert offensive mon you want to creep] Spe, and the rest in SpDef spread, you've got a lot of utility packed in one slot. Besides, it's not that difficult to find an alternative rocker; Mudsdale is good, Gigalith is fine, etc.

UR -> C/C+
Time for my personal pick. I know there have been a lot of people trashing me for running Scarf Kabutops, but it is a legitimately good set and not the only one Kabutops can pull off successfully in NU. In terms of Choice Scarf, Kabutops has a lot going for it, notably having all the necessary tools in Knock Off and a switch move. Beyond this, Kabutops has the same speed stat as Pssimian, so it can outspeed Adamant Arctovish and be an even better way to tear hail apart since, unlike CC, hail doesn't really have a switch-in to STAB Stone Edge/Rock Blast and it takes . To those of you saying it's walled by Vaporeon, first of all, it knocks its leftovers and second of all:
252 Atk Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 148-175 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 92.1% chance to 3HKO,
so after it's Knocked, it doesn't require much chip/hazards before it just can't switch in. Originally, I picked Kabutops as a scarfer that maintained the ability to counteract hail while giving my team a tool to help against Sub/BU Braviary, and I have no regrets. Does it require more support than your average mon? Yes, it makes a cleric almost mandatory and unlike Passimian, it's neutral to Stealth Rock, so it's worn down faster. But on the right team, it can fill in a lot of holes and put in a lot of work. Besides Scarf, Kabutops is run on any gimmicky rain team, but recently it's branched out as a lead on HO. It is notably the fastest mon we have that has both Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, making it a good pick for HO vs. HO slugfests, and it will put in work there to. Don't sleep on this mon, it is genuinely good on the right team and is not to be dismissed as garbage.

 

[Catalisador]

A -> A+/S

One of the best glue pokémon in the metagame, Flygon provides immense defensive and offensive utility as well as versatility in the current metagame, specially with Cresselia gone now.
Choice Banded sets provide great offensive pressure and a premier pivot with astounding coverage, Choice Scarf sets offer speed control in a metagame with limited options for such role, Mixed or Special sets are unique and unexpected techs that catch enemies off-guard for surprise KOs and defensive sets are extremely solid right now, pivotting into some of the metagame's most dangerous threats such as the mighty Copperajah and Tyrantrum with its Head Smashes. All while providing immensely valuable Ground- and Electric-type immunities.

Here's a replay against nice guy Corthius showcasing the strengths of defensive Flygon https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1304710363-4sco471so68uacgfxxqum49nuj5j4ispw

aim also posted a live with a team showcasing Flygon on his channel if you guys wanna watch, showcasing its potential greatly:

 

[Catalisador]

'Aight, I'm back again with the hottest of takes.

​

Pikachu, the friendly face we all grew to love, the mascot of the pokémon franchise and my newest nomination to the C tier.
With the support of familiar NU faces in Aawin and Corthius, I hereby present some of the reasons why this yellow rodent should be considered for a spot in the viability rankings:

1 - Unique wallbreaking potential thanks to Light Ball doubling its offenses and unique Electric-type STAB

Unfortunately, not all pokémon are born equal (I'm very sorry, Greedent...). But, thanks to being the face of the franchise, Pikachu was blessed with some extra favouritism. The item Light Ball was made exclusevely for this little guy in order to boost its offensive prowess. In conjunction with its other signature, Volt Tackle, a move with ridiculously strong power and STAB, Pikachu is able to cause serious damage to common defensive stables in the current NU metagame, such as Copperajah, Vaporeon and Bronzong.

Some calculations.

252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 339-400 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 176-208 (52 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bronzong: 162-192 (47.9 - 56.8%) -- 34% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 163-192 (54.1 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 135-159 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO

2 - Amazing coverage to hit common switch-ins

Thanks to access to great coverage moves in Grass Knot, Surf and Knock Off, the little rat is able to hit common switch-ins in Mudsdale, Gastrodon and Flygon for decent chip damage and pick easy 2HKOes.

Grass Knot calculations.

4 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 236-280 (55.3 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Mudsdale: 214-252 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

3 - Unique Fake Out + Extreme Speed combination

Strong Fake Out + Extreme Speed is the main selling point of Pikachu. Being able to dismantle frailer, more offensive builds with this combination plus Spikes while also breaking through slower, fatter teams with powerful Volt Tackles makes Pikachu a neat little niche pokémon to consider when team building.

4 - I just think it's neat

Quoting Aawin, "pika is sauce god".

Here's a replay against NU extraordinary player S1nn0hC0nfirm3d showcasing Pikachu's potential: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1308757336
#onepunchpika

Given the aforementioned arguments, I firmly believe Pikachu should be ranked C in the current SS NU metagame.

edit: adding more broken Pikachu replays.
MVPika: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1310048804-u2h0c3jy789mvwtpwm9mmx4qfgye2dmpw

 

[Aawin]

A couple noms here for mons that are benefitting heavily from the cress ban and mons I've been enjoying using

RISES

C to C+/B-

A previously overshadowed mon in the role of a fighting resist, it's pretty decent at the moment for being a switch in to most physical moves as well as the ever prevalent sirfetch'd and forcing chip on it with rocky helmet whilst forcing it out after a first impression, cc, or knock off. It provides great utility in spikes and corrosive gas. Slight raise here for the garbage heap for the overall utility it provides with rhelm + aftermath and checking the duck and machamp to an extent

C+ to B

Echoing Corthius' previous nom, hitmonlee distinguishes a niche in this meta as a fighting type scarfer that's actually faster than rotom-mow. 87 base speed with 252+ with choice scarf hits 450, putting it above the obvious rotom-mow, salazzle, talonflame, starmie, and obv more fast mons not running scarf atm. Reckless HJK hits like a fucking truck, and hitmonlee has the coverage to bop a good chunk of the meta; knock off for the rising psychics and generally a good move, stone edge for talon and mantine, and a flexible 4th slot (personally I run earthquake here for diancie and a perfectly accurate move vs salazzle and other poisons). Hitmonlee can also pull off gimmicky yet effective curse+white herb sets with unburden to chunk / clean up teams.



And a few mons that seem to be falling off imo

DROPS

A+ to B+/B

While it still provides an okay niche of being a decent vaporeon and rotom-mow check, why would you not just use roserade at that point? This mon is a relic of old meta, and with the rises of braviary and passimian, its best move in strength sap gives the opponent an attack raise and subsequently forces you out. This mon falls short when checking the top fightings in the tier (namely duck and 4 arms dipshit), and falls to brave bird / facade quite easily. Hail being ungodly common and new psychics resurging means that plume is in for a hefty struggle


B+ to B/B-

Slightly echoing Pokeslice, yeah this mon is fucking atrocious atm. Defiant everywhere, can't check sirfetch'd bc of scrappy blocking intimidate, and the heavy usage of mons like gastro and vaporeon especially hurt this things potential. Sure it still acts as a decent copperajah check but I really despise this mon for being utter dogwater. Offensive sets are kinda okay(?) but lacking breaking power and sacrificing bulk / teleport just does not seem wavy to me.


Also I detest anything to do with the pikachu nom, please stop taking the one sentence I said literally, as well as out of context, thank you :)

 

[Lilo]

Hey everyone first time of many (hopefully) but I saw that one of my favorite mons in the tier has not been nominated. It's a mon that I feel has good enough utility in the tier at the moment to be at least C+ ranked...

Introducing my little fluffy annoying plant: Whimsicott!!

I've been laddering a lot recently and came up with a team that just happens to show the amount of pros Whim has in this current meta. The ability to threaten the ever-growing fighting mons/Guzzlord, from the lack of defoggers on the tier, it's solid speed tier mixed with it's good ability and typing overall makes this little thing unique.

I will speak of the set I found I could take the most out of it which was SubSeed Whim. (yay!!!)

Set

UK Queen Fear (Whimsicott) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 60 Def / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Knock Off
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

So what about this set?

This monster has innumerous moments that it can setup a sub, being the most notable one rotom-mow from my experience. Before it even volt switches you are on your sub and it can't break the sub unless it's specs (or crits). This sequence opens up the opportunity to knock something that the opponent decides to bring in the early stages of the match crippling it for the whole game (ex: Copper/lazzle/smogonbird/dragalge/rk9/diancie/escav which easily get lured by it)

In the mid/late game is where the main subseed fest starts by simply spamming leech and moonblasting mons (and knocking the boots or the lefties that vapo usually runs). Partner this thing up with a mon that takes care of bulky waters easily (I'm looking at my boy Croak) and you will be celebrating just by looking at the opponent's team during the team preview (unless it's my boy Dani).
Bonus: t-spikes could be really solid in conjunction with whims knocking around and snatching the opponent mons' candy)

Side notes: Regarding Croak's set either NP or SD could work (low kick the mudsdale that tries to stop the sweep if it was not taken care by whims already). Also a case could be made for toxic instead of leech so that bulky waters can't stay safe around these streets.
The EVs on this could be a bit a different running timid max speed max hp could be really good mainly for the annoying starmies running around.

Calcs

4 Atk Mudsdale Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 60 Def Whimsicott: 70-83 (21.8 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
192 Atk Guzzlord Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 60 Def Whimsicott: 67-80 (20.8 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 240 HP / 60 Def Whimsicott: 72-86 (22.4 - 26.7%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Flygon U-turn vs. 240 HP / 60 Def Whimsicott: 68-81 (21.1 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Rotom-Mow Volt Switch vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Whimsicott: 63-74 (19.6 - 23%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

PROS

Besides all the explanation above it can still offer more by being a defog pivot, by running a specs set, some form of encore set, a subtoxic set, a subtaunt set, even as a sun abuser sweeper i guess...

MAIN CONS

Hate this part but boy oh boy is Sylveon/Exploud annoying vs this. The ability to simply bypass the sub can really ruin the vibes. Vileplume is also really annoying since it can't get seeded (this last sentence does not apply to other grass mons since they do not enjoy taking a knock.)
The inability to hit bulky waters (without toxic) in Subseed is huge and will always be a hindrance.

REPLAYS

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1310280301-rio02afi8pctg7f375xfb3b0i1gvt4gpw - Whim doing work since the start
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1310254934-ujrw5p5xz2ldw4z1imk7i5y2oftnpb8pw - Annoying little plant
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1310274492-fvo41pii485m0qn18ih7ef1sa6u4e41pw - Whim taking care of Smogonbird and easing up the endgame

 

[ssuperiority]

With Snow Warning being banned and Hail teams taking a severe blow, one of Vaporeon's selling points is gone.

B+ ---> B+/B/A-

I don't think it should drop too hard, since it provides some very nice cleric support and has Toxic, Scald, Flip Turn, however with Hail being nerfed Vaporeon isn't as great as it used to be. I'm not exactly sure how Glastrier will be in the current NU metagame, but Entei seems to be pretty good, which is why I also proposed a rise. I'm generally leaning more towards staying at B+, since the recent shifts were a mixed bag.

 

[gglrg]

to A
Vaporeon is one of the best pokemon in the tier as it provides wish support, very good bulk and a water immunity and a good utility movepool packing heal bell, toxic, flipturn etc. It is one of the best checks to the 2 newcomers in glastrier and entei where the meta lacks asnwers to them (especially entei). A very good partner for those pokemon who don't have recovery like copperajah. Overall I think vaporeon deserves a raise.

B- to B+
Toxicroak massively benefitted from the ban of cresselia allowing it to have some sort of usage. It loves that it can come in of pokemon like vaporeon for free and set up and is a fighting neutral to fairies like sylveon and comfey and destroys them with a gunk shot.It also has respectable speed and some viable priority to pick of faster foes with sucker punch like celebi and espeon.

to B maybe B+
Tauros is a pretty solid pick right now as it packs 110 speed which is one of the fastest in the tier and packs sheer force to boost it's stab body slam and coverage moves like throat chop to smack bronzong and close combat to hit steels like copperajah. It's last moveslot can be whatever you feel like: work up to boost it's already strong attacks, iron head for things like diancie and even zen headbutt for super effective hit's on fightings and hitting vileplume for decent damage.

A to A+
Flygon is one of the best glue and most versatile pokemon in the tier. It can use so many sets like choice scarf to provide momentum, defog/bulky sets as checks to pokemon like entei, dragon dance and choice band if you want to hit hard and/or sweep a good ability making it an earthquake switch in and a good speed tier. If you want you can even run mixed r special to surprise the opponent

A+ to way lower
This has no place anymore being so high as mienshao was why it was very good and annoying but now it's just a sitting duck that can't do anything and loses to many top tier mons such as salazzle and is set up fodder for pokemon like braviary. It can't even reliably check to the best fightings in the tier sirfetch'd and machamp and is 2ohkod by both.

A- to lower
Escavalier hates the ban of hail and cresselia as it one of the best checks to both and with hail made a good partner for vapereon to stop hail in it's tracks and definitely hates all the fires it loses too such as salazzle entei and talonflame who threatens to burn it. I think it is still a decent choice but it's not as good as before.

C to C+/B-
Articuno got a bit better without cresselia and it packs respectable speed stabs and bulk and recover for longevity. It has decent coverage options with shadow ball hitting bronzong and u-turn to keep momentum. Can also sweep with calm mind and loves to come in on a defog. I think it deserves a little bump.

To unranked
Hail is banned and I don't see how any of these should keep their place on the vr as they don't really possess any niche apart from maybe alolan sandslash being used as a spiker which seems outclassed by garbodor and qwilfish.

 

[Pokeslice]

I think it's about time for these two semi controversial changes to happen on the VR

B+ --> S

To me, this mon has clearly risen above every Pokemon in the tier. It already was seen all over as our best cleric and a mandatory mon to not lose to Stoise and Hail, but now, with the recent drops, it has only gotten better. Entei and Glastier start to make Vaporeon seem necessary on 2/3 teams and I wouldn't be surprised if the usage stats for April will show this. Vaporeon is now easily the most splashable mon in the tier and I'd argue the best Pokemon in NU.

S --> A/A+

Copper's time as the best Pokemon in the tier is over, and even more than that, the recent meta trends have beat it out of S in my eyes. First, we had the increase in Fighter's+Steel bait cores that definitely didn't help Copper, although it was still splashable and our best rocker, but with the recent shifts, the two new Pokemon that dropped in Entei and Glastier just add more new toys that Copper hates to face. Is it still our best rocker? Yeah. Is it an S tier pokemon in the context of the metagame? Not in my eyes.

 

[Stories]

We live in the Kingdom of April's NU. Vaporeon is the Queen, Entei is the King. Your viability is determined by your ability to defeat these Pokemon or to assist them.

Entei -> S Rank

Entei's ability to pick and choose its answers while burning everything in its path (literally) means you have to go above and beyond to beat it, even if your team is very well prepared for it. Physical Entei destroys just about everything bar defensive Flygon and Vaporeon, both of which can be burned to cripple their longevity, even if temporarily. Unless Vaporeon has Roar, Vintei (Calm Mind/Sub/Protect with Pressure) is even able to beat Vaporeon by PP stalling Scald and burnt Flip Turn doesn't break Sub. This set is also able to beat defensive Flygon if Lava Plume gets a timely burn. Vintei aside, Entei may not have the most amazing coverage, but it has enough to threaten tradiational offensive Fire-type checks like Diancie, using Iron Head, or Arcanine/Talonflame/Mantine, with Stone Edge, along with a powerful Extreme Speed to pick off weakened opponents, and even the ability to tech in Toxic for bulky waters. Entei also can utilize its other ability, Inner Focus, to negate Intimidate from otherwise would-be checks like Qwilfish or Arcanine. Entei does have its flaws, though; its best moves often lack PP, being Sacred Fire, Stone Edge, and Extreme Speed, all at 8, meaning that much like Entei can do to his opponent, Entei can be at the recieving end of PP stalling vs defensive teams. Entei, while having many sets that can beat many different Pokemon, cannot run all of these sets at once, and there isn't one set that can beat everything. Entei also is weak to Stealth Rocks, and running Boots means you lack the fire-power of a Choice Band or longevity of a Leftovers set. Many players will agree that Entei is potentially broken, but we'll see how it goes as the meta develops around it.

Vaporeon -> S Rank

Vaporeon has been a well-known staple of the NU tier since before the April tier shifts, and with Roserade and Gastrodon rising to RU, and Entei moving down to NU, Vaporeon is only seeing more and more reasons to stick around. Vaporeon is arguably the most unkillable Pokemon in the NU tier, being able to tank or scout super-effective hits, with Wish and Protect, from even the tier's most threatening Pokemon; such as Copperajah, Rotom-Mow, and Starmie. Vaporeon can simply heal up then switch accordingly, making it stick around for a very long time, while also being able to heal up its teammates, notorious examples being Copperajah or Escavalier to sponge Grass type attacks, or Mudsdale for Electric type attacks. Vape can also utilize support moves like Toxic or Roar to disturb Pokemon that would otherwise thrive on its relatively passive nature (like Sub Shell Smash Blastoise), or Flip Turn to gain momentum for its team; which also pairs well with Wish.

252 SpA Rotom-Mow Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Vaporeon: 342-404 (73.7 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Copperajah Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Vaporeon: 234-276 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Vaporeon: 200-237 (43.1 - 51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Vaporeon could be seen dipping in viability once the metagame develops around it, as its coverage is below average and again, is very passive. Pokemon like Toxicroak and Celebi are able to easily switch into Vaporeon and set up with Nasty Plot or Swords Dance without regard to Scald or Toxic, and also being able to deal with common Vaporeon partners such as Copperajah or Mudsdale

252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 212 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 351-416 (80.1 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Toxicroak Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mudsdale: 438-516 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mudsdale: 351-413 (86.8 - 102.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Copperajah: 967-1139 (220.7 - 260%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Celebi Earth Power vs. 212 HP / 252+ SpD Copperajah: 385-455 (87.8 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mudsdale: 364-429 (90 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Pokemon like fast Taunt + Toxic Jellicent to shut down Vaporeon are also rising in usage as it also checks Entei and Glastrier fairly well, too. and Rotom-Mow can always threaten both Mudsdale, and to Volt Switch on Copperajah to gain momentum, while also always 2HKO-ing Vaporeon and being able to Nasty Plot.

Toxicroak -> A- Rank

Toxicroak is the definition of anti-meta, especially with the development of Adamant Low Kick to nearly OHKO Mudsdale. Toxicroak turns Vaporeon into fodder, while also threatening to take out almost anything slower than it after a Swords Dance or Nasty Plot. Toxicroak is able to patch up its middling speed with some solid priority moves in Sucker Punch or Vacuum Wave as well, and can even run some crazy coverage moves like Ice Punch or Shadow Ball. Croak usually isn't the star of the show but can punch holes into teams for its teammates like nobody else.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 355-419 (105 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 477-563 (102.8 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Xatu: 438-516 (131.1 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO[/ISPOILER]

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 217-256 (58.4 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Flygon: 227-269 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Weezing -> B+ Rank

Weezing is arguably the best U-Turn punisher in the tier when given a Rocky Helmet. Weezing is also one of like -5 Sirfetch'd checks and also hard walls Flygon while checking Glastrier, Escavalier, Copperajah, etc etc (most physical attackers). Weezing has a great supporting movepool with Toxic and Wil-o-Wisp, Taunt, Corrosive Gas, or Toxic Spikes in its arsenal, along with 2 fantastic abilities in Neutralizing Gas and Levitate (Levitate is the best one rn). While lacking reliable recovery, Pain Split lets you leech off fat mons like Glastrier and Copperajah to stick around for a little bit longer. Poison types such as Garbodor and Qwilfish will also be seeing more usage as well as they find a place in the meta.

252+ Atk Choice Band Sirfetch’d Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 141-166 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252+ Atk Glastrier Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 105-124 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

252 Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 144-169 (43.1 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+1 252 Atk Flygon Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 103-123 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Kingdra -> A- Rank

Kingdra is a 30-day workout program the way this thing kills fat. Sub up on Vaporeon or as you force a Mudsdale or Entei out fearing a Water move, then get your Focus Energy up and start critting away. Kingdra doesn't do so well against offense with this set, although DD or Rain Dance can put in work as well, but those bulky Vaporeon/Copperajah/Mudsdale type teams just crumple in the face of it, and Kingdra's quad resist to both Water and Fire and solid natural bulk allow it to set up against passive Pokémon very easily. In a day and age where Vaporeon and friends is borderline unkillable, breakers that can consistently threaten their existence have a rightful place in the meta, and this is only one of many sets Kingdra can use, along with Choice Band, Rain Dance, Dragon Dance, or Yawn + Flip Turn.

Kingdra destroying the entire tier

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 16+ SpD Vaporeon on a critical hit: 393-465 (84.6 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Surf vs. 0 HP / 212 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah on a critical hit: 204-243 (52.9 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong on a critical hit: 190-225 (56.2 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine on a critical hit: 240-285 (64.3 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mantine on a critical hit: 337-397 (90.3 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Glastrier on a critical hit: 391-460 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Dhelmise on a critical hit: 307-364 (89.2 - 105.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Fun replay https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1316227720-u1k92dlhiwu2kea8gdehtz5fzr8odvapw

Aerodactyl -> B Rank

Aerodactyl holds the position of the fastest relevant Pokémon in the tier, tied only to Jolteon. Although Aero doesn't have stellar defenses, its unique typing, movepool, and access to Boots allow it to act as an offense/defense hybrid much like Talonflame or Noivern. I won't go into the suicide lead because you could go to an actual fossil museum to learn about that, but rather I'll go into the offensive sets and their potential in the tier. I've already gone into insane detail here on Aero's coverage and what hits the most, but we can pick and choose our checks based on Aero's team composition, with Crunch hitting Bronzong, Ice Fang hitting Flygon, Earthquake hitting Copperajah, etc. Aero also has 2 different means of setting up with both Dragon Dance and Hone Claws, both of which have their merits. Aerodactyl's main use is not to break though, but to clean up shop after a teammate (like Toxicroak or Kingdra) has already punched a hole in the opponents bulky Waters, Steels, and Grounds, which are the most effective Aero checks; so rather than listing defensive Pokémon Aero can punch through, I'll go over the other offensive Pokémon it competes with. Also worth nothing that after a Dragon Dance, Aerodactyl outspeeds every single Scarfer and weather abuser in the game (591) and is only outsped by Alolan Raichu in Terrain.

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Goodra: 280-331 (87.2 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 260-306 (99.6 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 241-285 (92.3 - 109.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 242-286 (79.3 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Mow: 199-235 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Drapion: 260-306 (92.5 - 108.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerodactyl Dual Wingbeat (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 336-400 (98.5 - 117.3%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO

Aero sweep with some Croak support :) https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1316283215-n0z7bryy7vamzi4mhlgjjaaoilqmki3pw

 

[Danny]

Ok guys fucked around and topped ladder again. Twice in ab a month is pretty cool ig. Gonna make some obligatory noms of some mons that I tried during these ladder runs. The firs ladder run was during the hail meta though so everything there is irrelevant(although my teams are still very usable).

Peaks

B+>>>S
Pretty much everything Slice said above and more. What even kills this thing? It is so central to the meta game, as it can beat the two new drops along with most of the meta lol. The ability to pick and choose your last move, although Heal Bell is fs the best option, is so good, as I’ve tried Haze, Roar, and I’ve even seen Ice Beam Vape put in work. I think it’s pretty set in stone that it rises on the VR, I just think it’s effect on the meta game should be reflected by a S ranking. Don’t have to go far to find replays of Vape putting in work, but here’s one of it beating a Celebi with a bit of luck on my side lol.

Vape Replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1314273014

B+>>>A/A+
I’ve been a Guzz advocate for some time now, and I think it’s only become better with the recent drops. Albeit weak to Glastrier, Guzzlord sits on most of the meta, and serves as many teams’ Mowtom answer, Ghost Resist, FWG resist, and Dark Resist. With Vintei becoming a popular set, a Pokémon which does not care about Lava Plume burns is especially useful, and Guzzlord fulfills that perfectly. It gives a lot of fat/stall builds a really good way to knock Lefties or HDB, and overall has great match ups against the balance-oriented and offensive teams in the meta. I’ve mostly been running a Rest Sleep Talk set with max in both defenses and a careful nature, because my team is relatively Decidueye weak as well. Guzzlord being able to switch into the top scarfer(Mowtom) and pressure teams with its Knock off/Toxic/Heavy Slam is really useful in the current meta. It does all that even before trying the CB set which is amazing. Being able to surprise opponents thinking they take Knock well is game changing and I think we should show the effect it has on the meta. Heck Copperrajah have even started to run Play Rough for it, which speaks to its effect on the meta. It does not belong in the same Rank as Arcanine Passimian and Dhelmise. It’s the goat after all.

Guzz Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1314253467-4g152nkj0qe41eu576yzlghayh5f8kkpw
Rest Talk
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ru-1314026776-0mjiim6jhxonj8u2t3787vtnoe9uya8pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1312929806-ouw244qsx3zrx0gdy78kntqugh2t8x6pw
CB Guzz

C+>>>B
Any mon that abuses the most common core of Vape+Steel+Fight Resist is a good mon and CritDra is no exception. It can sub on Vape and claim. Not going into much detail on this one but it deserves to be ranked higher just because of its ability to break those cores.

B->>>A
Toxicroak is criminally underrated. It falls in the same boat as Kingdra, a mon that can switch in and abuse Vape spam teams. It’s being explored a lot now, and it has ways to beat its checks such as EQ for Dragalge, Stone Edge for Talonflame, Ice Punch for Flygon, and my favorite, Adamant LO Low Kick being a roll to OHKO Mudsdale at +2. Not to mention it can run Special as well, which is just as potent albeit a bit more reliant on hitting your moves(focus miss sucks). Really good mon, and in my opinion the second best fighting type we have at the moment.

Croak Replay

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1312927748-3n0sgk7odzcw4u7mtimp6hzagldbmyvpw

B+>>>A-/A
Best rocker in the tier at the moment, not much else really competes with it. It is the one and only viable CB Ttrum switch in, and so it’s viability should be reflected as such. No replays for this because it consistently puts in work every game, and so if you watch the other ones you’ll see it do it’s job. Fat ground click rocks p much.

A>>>A+
One of the best checks to Entei in the tier, Flygon works wonders with both its defensive defog, DD, and Choice Scarf set. Second best scarfer in the tier, but it’s main niche stm is its rocky helmet utility set. Beating Copper, Entei, Drapion, and other annoying threats.

and B- and C>>>higher
Going to lump these two together as they pretty much perform the same roles with a few differences. Garb is in my opinion better, as it gives us the ever coveted spikes which are extremely rare now that we lost our best two spikers. Both are solid and need to be appreciated more especially Garb.

C+>>>B-
Minor change here, just think the lack of fairies in the meta allows Bulk Up Scrafty to do its thing against a lot of fat builds. Solid mon needs more exploration. Being able to Knock Flying Types and also potentially steamroll unprepared teams warrants a rise.

B->>>B
Really solid offensive Entei/Salazzle check, it’s speed tier is unique, and it has a lot of appealing qualities such as good coverage moves like Ice Fang or Crunch, recovery with Roost, and Pressure, which sounds niche but it can help you pressure stall Vintei or just annoy fatter builds. This one might be a stretch, i judt really enjoyed using it, and it put in consistent work.

B>>>A-
Xatu is incredible at the current moment, it might not seem like that, because the current drops both beat it, but xatu has the ability to beat most hazard setters in the tier. It can beat Rocks Muds, Copper, and Bronzong. It can PP stall the Diancie out of Diamond Storms, leaving the Diancie unable to get up rocks. All the spikers lose to it except for niche Froslass, and it can bounce back hazards and generally serve as an annoying fight resist/pivot. I’ve been using it on many of my builds and it stands apart from the B ranks in that now it isn’t threatened by every viable spike/hazard setters.

UR>>>B-
Qwilfish sets itself apart from the two poisons I mentioned before, in that it alone has tools to beat Entei and Glastrier. It has the move pool to beat them both, and still get spikes up before it is done. I have been running a set with Spikes/Liquidation/Taunt/Painsplit, and it ruins fat builds with mons reliant on wish passing from Vaporeon. It can run Taunt to beat ID Glastrier or Haze for SD or Vintei variants. Really solid mon with a great defensive typing, deserves much more credit than it is getting. It can also EV to be faster than Tyrantrum or Sirfetch’d netting surprise KOs on weakened foes.

Qwil Replays

This replay encapsulates it’s ability to just ruin fat teams.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1314256782-xhzt95mzypvm5ajw34lsh2cw1ozi59opw

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nu-1314998157-p1tc834wi73r3vdmb81w3mcqjs5l9ripw
Qwil goes in after Copper dispatched the Xatu.

this thing is cool too Ig. Can knock talon and copper which is nice and leech stall things.

hopefully these noms are well received, I used quite the variety of mons on these runs, and will probably be making an rmt of one of my teams in the near future. Enjoy!

 

[Catalisador]

Personal tierlist

S Rank:

S Rank

Vaporeon

S- Rank

Copperajah

Entei

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Flygon

Rotom-Mow

Salazzle
Sylveon

Starmie

A Rank

Bronzong

Dragalge

Glastrier

Talonflame

Tyrantrum

A- Rank

Blastoise

Decidueye
Diancie

Escavalier
Golurk

Guzzlord

Sirfetch'd

B Rank:

B+ Rank

Dhelmise
Hitmonlee

Machamp
Mantine
Mudsdale
Ninjask

B Rank

Braviary

Exploud

Goodra

Heliolisk

Silvally-Ghost
Xatu

B- Rank

Aerodactyl
Archeops

Arctovish

Arctozolt
Comfey
Espeon

Indeedee-F

Tauros
Toxicroak

Weezing

C Rank:

C+ Rank

Garbodor

Gigalith
Kingdra
Omastar

Silvally-Fairy
Silvally-Steel
Vileplume

C Rank

Araquanid
Articuno-Galar
Sceptile

'Sup, guys! I just wanted to post my personal tierlist with some of the changes I think reflect on the current SS NU metagame. Please give me your thoughts on it and I'll be glad to respond! :)

TL;DR:
-> Vaporeon is the sole S tier pokémon due to its meta-defining niche and ability to handle some of our most menancing threats such as Entei and Glastrier;
-> Arctofossils remain B- tier thanks to the consistency of manual hail. Despite losing free Snow Warning, gaining Arctozolt makes hail still pretty menancing, just a tad harder to pull off consistently;
-> Creation of S- tier to reflect how Vaporeon is the pillar holding the metagame together, with Copperajah and Entei in the S- tier as other potent, meta-defining mons;
-> Great rise in Guzzlord thanks to its offensive and, mainly, defensive consistency as well as Flygon, also due to the same reasons;
-> Glastrier starting in A tier;
-> Huge drop in Vileplume to reflect its drop in usage and viability with the departure of the broken Fighting-type trifecta (Mienshao, Pangoro and Bewear);
-> Great rise in Hitmonlee thanks to its consistency as a scarfer (one of the best in the current metagame) as well as wallbreaker and subsequent drop of Passimian due to being mostly outclassed;
-> Unranking some, frankly, unnecessarily ranked mons (such as Pincurchin and Alolan-Raichu with are extremely MU dependent, Passimian which is most entirely outclassed by Hitmonlee and Inteleon which is outclassed as a screens setter by Espeon and as an offensive water by the likes of Starmie and Blastoise);
-> minor rises and drops in the likes of Starmie, Garbodor and Mantine to reflect metagame changes.

 

[Rabia]

disagree heavily with the notion that Vaporeon is S rank going forward; obviously this point assumes Entei and Glastrier are present in the tier, but even then I don't think it's defining the metagame to such an extent. given there's an ongoing council vote to determine whether those two stay in the tier, this point is sort of moot anyway, but I think saying Vaporeon is the best Pokemon in the metagame even as of now is incorrect. it's certainly a lot better now with Gastrodon leaving because it can fill the void of a Water-immune and Fire-resistant option while offering super useful utility via Wish and Heal Bell, so I support a rise of some kind, but not to where many posters are suggesting it go

gonna make some nominations that are independent of whatever happens to Entei and Glastrier:

-> lower
It's a much worse Fighting and Water-type check in the current metagame and hasn't responded well to the rise of other problems such as Salazzle; it's still annoying to play against because of Strength Sap + item removal + Effect Spore, but defensively it doesn't do nearly as much as it did in previous metas

-> lower
not a Pokemon I think should drop much at all---only a subrank---but Sylveon just feels really out of place in A+. that rank I feel assumes a much higher level of influence over the tier, and as Vaporeon has gained more usage I really don't feel Sylveon has that claim.

-> lower
it's lost a lot of niches as NU has undergone different bans, be it Bewear, Cresselia, or even Snow Warning. prominence of options like Braviary and Guzzlord harms it a fair bit, and it's generally just much harder to justify using

-> lower
Cresselia and Snow Warning bans make it a lot harder to justify using over Copperajah and Bronzong. It's still a nice option because it's great at luring in stuff like Talonflame and Arcanine and removing their boots, but it's overall less useful nowadays

-> lower
not a good Pokemon. Choice Scarf seems to be having the most success nowadays as opposed to more wallbreaking oriented sets, but even then Zoroark just doesn't offer a whole lot and is far from the menace many predicted it could have been when we originally got it. it's sort of been a slow burn with its drop but honestly it doesn't belong anywhere near the A ranks

-> lower
a far cry from where it was in NUSD meta, still has to be respected from preview because it will still clean weakened teams, but it's not as defining of a late-game presence anymore and has more significant issues getting those dream scenarios because of an increase in Wish prevalence and us having two very good counters to it in Copperajah and Diancie.

-> lower
was mostly just used before as a niche Cresselia answer, and well, that niche is gone. it's probably still /fine/ as a fat teams bully, but I really can't see much reason to use it anymore

-> bye
ok fine I am ready to admit rotom is not a pokemon anyone uses at all. i feel like there's a use for it somewhere, but Rotom-C existing is already a huge deterrent to using base Rotom, and in general it's just not a great option

-> bye
manual hail exists to some degree, but this is no longer a very good Pokemon at all. yeah it can still be annoying for slow teams outside of hail, but we've had it before without Slush Rush, and well, it was a nonfactor in the metagame for a reason

-> bye
similarly to vish, there's just not much incentive to running alolaslash anymore now that auto hail is gone

-> bye
stop trying to make it work

-> bye
snow warning is dead

-> higher
Salazzle has solidified itself as the second best Pokemon in my eyes; yeah it doesn't appreciate Flygon's continued stay at the top nor the fact it's starting to use bulkier sets, but Salazzle's versatility and general threat level are so fucking high that adequately preparing for it isn't the easiest unless you just stick to spamming cores like Vaporeon + Flygon + Copperajah on all of your teams.

-> higher
defensive Flygon is very good glue and offers a great amount of role compression, Choice Scarf is still aggressively adequate as a revenge killer, generally just a super solid utility Pokemon that does a lot for balance builds

-> higher
Starmie is one of the most obnoxious fuckers in the tier. Losing Gastrodon leaves it with very little consistent defensive counterplay, and its coverage between Hydro Pump + Thunderbolt and whatever filler move you want is about as close to perfect as you could wish. At times it can fail to OHKO certain targets, which can cost you your Starmie, but it's super easy to force progress with and push those checks into KO range to avoid that.

-> higher
much like Flygon, it's one of the tier's best utility options, and between its speed and defensive merits, it generally serves as a nice soft check to many offensive threats in the tier, including Salazzle and Sirfetch'd

-> higher
not as certain on this nom as my others, but smashstoise is at worst the second best setup sweeper in the tier and probably the hardest to stop after a boost. water + ice coverage is great alongside sub, with the only real stops being stuff like haze mantine and roar vapo.

-> higher
the tier's Fighting-type checks are rather porous at the moment, and while Sirfetch'd can generally be kept contained with aggressive play, at a point you're gonna be forced to let it in. its Close Combat is ludicrously strong and can really easily claim a KO if your switch-in to Fighting-type moves is weakened at all

-> higher
ghost immunity? check. broken wallbreaker? check. yep that's all I needed. like it's obviously not broken, but exploud is one of those super low drawback breakers that doesn't require much support outside of a pivot so that you don't have to hard switch it in. yeah there are a lot of boomburst resists in the tier, but they still take a fuckload, and if you have the inclination to predict a switch, exploud has the coverage for all of them.

-> higher
please stop sleeping on Inteleon. is it worse than Starmie? sure, but Choice Scarf sets are really nice into offense teams, and because of the Speed tier it has, you can go Modest and still outpace all the relevant stuff. not some metagame definer like it was back in November, but definitely more solid than what B- suggests

yea this is a lot of noms, and there are a couple others I'd probably make if I felt stronger about them, but o well. zolt is probably somewhere low b/high c for the merit of sets w/ hail + 3 attacks

 

[Pokeslice]

-> bye
stop trying to make it work

I'm never gonna let this one up. It actually has merit. It's probably the second best TTrum check atm and also steals Guts from Machamp which is kinda clean. Trust me it's no higher than C+, but it's actually usable. I learnt this the hard way more than once with a DD TTrum on a screens team I was running. You all should give it a try it's actually super fun.

Some Calcs

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 105-125 (32.8 - 39%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Runerigus: 96-114 (30 - 35.6%) -- 32% chance to 3HKO

252+ Atk Guts Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 130-154 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk burned Machamp Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Runerigus: 44-52 (13.7 - 16.2%) -- possible 7HKO (After Knocking Calc)

 

[Lucario]

Small little nom

UR --> C/C+
Garbodor, with the recent shifts, is one of the few Pokemon with access to Spikes (and it also gets T-Spikes, too). Sure, you could go with Froslass... but it dies easily unless you run Destiny Bond. Back onto Garbodor, its mono-Poison-typing allows it to make Sirfetch'd and Machamp cry as Sirfetch'd can only 2HKO it with Brave Bird (which is a low chance of happening) while Machamp gets Facade and its Knock Off does a lot, too. But, it can switch into their Fighting-type moves, which is great. Garbodor also has Aftermath which can also hurt the Fighting-types even more, paired with Rocky Helmet and they die faster. Spikes teams may not be the greatest right now, as well as Starmie and other, smaller Psychic-types relevance in the tier are why I wouldn't rank it B/B-, but the C/C+ could help it rise in popularity. Oh, it also resists Rotom-C's Leaf Storm and Dragalge's Sludge Bomb while also hitting both decently well with Gunk Shot and Stomping Tantrum respectively.
Edit before someone tags me: No replays because, well, it sets up Spikes, y'all really wanna see it press a button 3 turns in a single battle?


I also wanna point out I agree with Rabia's nom for Inteleon being ranked higher. I don't have much to add to it, but thought I'd say this to show it a little support.

 

[Rabia]

Locking this while we work on the update :)