Resource SS OU DLC2 Viability Ranking Thread [SEE: Page 105, Post 2618]

[IBZ]

most of this post is invalidated by you admitting that scizor does indeed need to be pretty much at max to successfully check what it needs to, which was baloor's point, not that Scizor can't check these pokemon at all. It is true for pretty much every pokemon Scizor checks besides like chipped SD weavile and Kyurem.

god i hate walls of calcs but this response kind of demands it

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Scizor in Psychic Terrain: 138-163 (40.2 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
if its physdef or mixed psychic does even more than this

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 277-326 (80.7 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Superpower vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 285-335 (83 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

252+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 108-128 (31.4 - 37.3%) -- approx. 90.7% chance to 3HKO
+
252+ Atk Melmetal Superpower vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 121-143 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
= you lose to thunder wave melm off of two flinches or more likely, one flinch because Scizor staying at max without roosting constantly and generating 0 momentum is a pipe dream

252+ Atk Choice Band Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 162-192 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- approx. 87.1% chance to 2HKO
CB cares even less

+2 252+ Atk Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 152+ Def Scizor: 258-304 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 230-272 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you've taken too much chip for u turning out to be a viable option and weavile is healthy (which is not an uncommon occurrence) you can lose this too. It still knocks you to get overwhelmed by its teammates at worst so w/e.

Scizor isn't consistent enough defensively to find a place on anything that isn't like momentum heavy offenses most of the time, which are definitely a relevant part of the metagame but not to the point where Scizor should rise to A off of em. Scizor fats mostly died off ages ago because other steels tend to take its place much better post Kyurem panic, and its appearances on other teamstyles are prettty sparse and mostly come down to forced role compression or getting mercilessly 6-0'd by Kyurem otherwise. It is good on those, but that's really about it?

I agree Scizor isn't A material basically

Having read this post I've changed my opinion.
At first I didn't understand why you would include setup sweepers in your calcs despite Scizor being best suited to momentum heavy offense/voltturn, which is very hard to set up against in the first place. But I now understand that it's to show how Scizor is ONLY suited to that playstyle, and wouldn't fit on other less offensive teams.
I do still think Scizor is very good at the role I described in my original post, on momentum heavy teams. But you've made a very valid point that this alone isn't enough to justify A rank.
Furthermore having looked at the viability rankings again, and seeing the mons that are currently in A and A-, I think it's clear that Scizor is not as good as the mons that are currently in A rank, and it would better reflect Scizor's place in the metagame if it dropped to A-.

So ig I'm nomming Scizor down now.

A -> A-

Oh and while I'm still writing, I really don't think Volc should have moved down. Not really nomming it back to A bc idk if I can form a good enough argument for that, but I still disagree with it going down.

 

[alkazoth]

C- --> B

Weezing-Galar @ Black Sludge / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog / Corrosive Gas
- Pain Split
- Strange Steam
- Will-O-Wisp​

This mon is mad underrated. After Urshifu got banned, I thought Gweezing would plummet into unranked viability, that is, until I finally decided to try it out again. My god, is this thing good. Pro tip for this mon: Don't run Neut Gas, run Levitate. Gweezing is a physical wall with a Poison/Fairy typing and Levitate, which allows it to check Lando, Chomp, Rilla, Bulu, Hippo, Zera, Ttar, Weav, Dnite, Buzz, SD Kart, Pert, and Lucha. Godweezing doesn't have any form of reliable recovery, so it has to go with Pain Split, which can be great at turning the tables on mons who thought they had finally knocked out Gweezing, until they lose half of their health because they didn't anticipate a Pain Split. Strange Steam is the sole attacking move to run on it, threatening the dragons and fighting mons it's supposed to check, and ensures that they can't come in on it. Wisp is how Gweezing suppresses the physical attackers, rendering them useless. It's also able to pass around Wisp really easily, so pairing it with Hex Pult on a status spam team allows it to reach its full potential. If your team lacks a defogger, don't worry, because Gweezing can learn Defog, and is able to defog on lots of common rockers like Lando and Chomp. If your team does, then Corrosive Gas is the best alternative option. Corrosive Gas is a move that removes the opp's item, just like Knock Off, except without the damage. The biggest obstacle for Gweezing is Heatran, who not only quad resists Strange Steam, but is immune to Wisp. Corrosive Gas, however, works on steel types, so the best you can do is remove Tran's lefties, which is a huge way to cripple it, removing its only form of recovery. Pairing Gweezing with a Tran check like spdef Lando or Dnite is ideal, since it helps Gweezing get past its one major wall. I know this is a controversial pick since Gweezing isn't used at all, but checking that many relevant threats is not to be overlooked. Compare that to Mandi, who's currently ranked at B-, is able to be Toxiced, weak to rocks, and checks almost no one anymore, is ranked at B-. Meanwhile, Gweezing checks almost all the relevant grounds, dragons, and fighting mons, and deters physical attackers better than Mandi can, is ranked at C-. I really feel like this mon is way too slept on, and puts in work almost every game, the only things you need to worry about are Tran and Glowking, other than that, it'll drive your opponent mad, especially if they're relying on only physical breakers.

Example team with Gweezing:

 

[Jokler]

Been a while since I visited VR and I would give my two cents on some mons -

Scizor - I agree that it shouldn't have risen. It is a mon that barely gets by against the mons it is supposed to check. Specs Focus Blast from either has a to kill it in 2 even full SpD (It gets blown guaranteed from just 94℅). Without Phys Def it is also not a good Kart or Rilla check or other Physical Attackers for that matter either as the people above me have shown in calcs. It also always needs to be at near full to check it targets. Not consistent enough and a dicey check to mons to be in a A rank imo.

Rillaboom - Agree with it dropping. It seems the meta is really not favouring it. Mons like Dnite, Kart, Volc, etc. though might have dropped a bit in viability, are still prevalent and completely ruin Rilla's day. People turning to other priority users like Weavile and Urshifu don't help matter either. It still has great qualities on paper but it just struggles too much to start breaking. Tapu Bulu has also started giving it competition as a Grassy Terrain Setter.

Volcanion - This is the mon right here I visited the VR to post about. Heck I was preparing to nominate it but I was pleasantly surprised when it was not only was it already present on the VR but in the B ranks. Seriously I have been having a blast using this thing on Rain. Literally only Boots Slowking can survive 2 Rain Specs Steam Eruptions from it in OU and it still takes above 40% and Dnite with Multiscale intact but the later doesn't really count due to the Burn chance negating the Scale for their next encounter. Even Blissey and Ferro get 2HKOed. Mons like Pult, Urshifu straight up have a chance to be OHKOed. This mon literally doesn't need to click anything besides Steam Eruption under rain. I shit you not I went 20 battles without using any other move and it was getting 2-3 kills on an average. It is so fat too that you can just stay in on even mons like Zapdos, Kartana, Urshifu and remove a major obstacle for the Rain. This mon actually made me reconsider Hail being the best weather and I am on team Rain now. Rain just still has too much explosion power with rain boosted attacks and 100℅ accurate Hurricanes and Thunders and they have the Spe control to end all Spe control in Barra so even offense is fucked. I got to top 80 in OU in from 1100 under 2 hours with Volcanion rain with 88% GXE. Rain is just too damn effective in washing away offenses and blowing through Fat.

Lastly, I don't have the time to turn out an entire Nomination right now due to exams but I will nominate some Sun mons on VR that have also been amazing for me albeit not as much as Volcanion on Rain after the exams. I think all 3 weather are great in OU right now except sand, (Dracozolt and Excadrill have seen a lot better days). Sun does require a bit of finesse to pull off as compared to the relatively straight forward Hail and Rain especially against Tran, Rain, and Dnite but if you play around these, damn, it is so rewarding as Sun has the most nuclear options available in terms of Power (Overheat Blacephalon, Eruption Tran, Vcreate Victini and Darm anyone?) and Venu can be such a unit if it's counters are weakened by it's fire boosted partners. Sun also enjoys a particularly good matchup vs Hail so there is that. All in all, I have been really enjoying running different weather as you simply don't get that level of power in any other play style. Heck I even want to try out Sandslash Alolan on hail as Triple Axel calcs at +2 with LO were looking pretty good with knock off and EQ as secondary moves and it seems to be a quick battle paced hail abuser rather than the control oriented Arctozolt.

I encourage everyone to try out these weathers and particularly try out Volcanion on Rain as clicking Specs Rain Steam Eruption is so addictive. Makes me wish that Stoutland still had access to Return. With Zone support for Steels it could have given Sand another tool to use that could actually feasible get past bulky ground types. Banded Return Calcs are pretty good when there are no bulky Megas in the tier.

 

[VannAccessible]

What prompted the Toxtricity rise? It’s been a minute since I’ve seen it in action, was honestly expecting a drop if anything

also bulu was ROBBED

I know you asked a few pages ago, but no one answered, so I’ll bite, as I’ve used Toxtricity to decent effect.

I first began experimenting with a Bulky Specs Tox as a mid-speed Special Breaker on Trick Room teams, as a means of side stepping the ever troublesome Substitute MU, which Tox performs VERY admirably. However I have also come to find that Toxtricity also has numerous great traits that let it wreak havoc on the meta, outside TR.

These traits include:

A special breaker that ignores Substitutes, walks through Slowking and pivots around Blissey, Glowking and Ferrothorn with Volt Switch, getting in an appropriate counter and enabling use in Volt Turn cores.

HIGHLY spammable move in Boomburst, which is a delete button on near anything that doesn’t resist it or isn't immune, but that should be a given.

STAB combo which lets it wreck bulky waters (which in and of itself is huge) as well as most Regenerator mons, including Slowtwins, Toxapex, Tornadus and Tangrowth (another great trait that lets it do work in TR).

An electric type breaker capable of obliterating ground type switch ins with Boomburst, as well as bulky grass types like AV Bulu and Tangrowth with Sludge Wave.

Snarl is a nice option for hitting the some of the few would be checks like Dragapult, Glowking, Dhelmise, Shedninja and Lightningrod Marowak-A, as well as lowering special attack.

Surprisingly good defensive typing which lets it come in on Hawlucha, Tornadus, Tapu Koko and Corviknight. I’ll add this as mainly a TR perk, but its Poison typing let’s it resist Grassy Glade priority from Rillaboom.

Bonus: Absorbs Toxic Spikes on entry!

 

[Walletinspector62]

(Idk how to write an intro lol so ignore this part)
Made some nominations cause I think there are a lot of unappreciated mons rn and I’d like to bring some light to them.

B+ -> A-: Blace is fun if you’re using it, i fun if you’re playing against it. This mon has a grand total of maybe three semi consistent switch ins in the tier? Fire Ghost is such an incredible offensive type combination, and Blace has ways around mons like Blissey and Hippo with trick. One thing I think is under appreciated about Blace is that you don’t know what set it’s running most of the time. Scarf is a really scary cleaner and specs can blow holes in under prepared teams. Maybe the meta needs more time to adapt to this, but currently I think Blace deserves the A ranks.

B+ -> A-: Another mon with some ambiguity to what it’s gonna do. This mon can run like four viable sets that all have different checks and counters. One minute you think you’re playing against band Victini, so you go into Heatran only to get nailed by a scorching sands. Band is an incredibly strong breaker, albeit needs some support to work correctly. The boots set is what I think is what makes Victini really good tho, being able to spread burn and pivot around freely. Most of the things Tini can’t break it can trick it’s scarf/band onto, crippling them. Overall, I think Victini deserves a slight bump up.

C+ -> at least B-: While it might seem at first mamo is outclassed by tier king Weavile, Mamo has some nice traits such as stealth rocks, stab EQ to break Pex easier, and a resistance to BoltBeam (although most Zolt run Low kick so it doesn’t really matter). What you should really be running Mamo for is Snow cloak. Snow Cloak with Brightpowder is one of the most infuriating combinations to play against, and it loves the surge of hail usage recently. While it’s fairly luck reliant, if a snow cloak mamo with a sub up can turn the tides of a battle around extremely quickly. It can also Icicle crash flinch cheese it’s way through metalBirds sometimes. I think just the ground and ice stab combo should be worthy of a rise.

C+ -> B-: idk why people don’t talk about this mon more? Every time it’s brought up, for some reason people just stop talking about it, idk why. Rock/Fighting is a very good Stab combo, and it’s incredible speed tier allows it to naturally outspeed a lot of OU Staples. This mon is already hard to check, but when you throw on Future Sight support, this mon can break incredible holes in even the bulkiest of teams. I’ve also seen scarf pop up here and there as a means of checking things like Hail and Weavile.

C+ -> B-: Specs. Boomburst. One of the few Electric types that can break the very common Sp. Def Ground types in the tier. This is a very important niche cause it allows toxtricity to blow huge holes in opposing teams with very little effort. You can also run options like life orb with fire punch to beat ferrothorn. Pretty cool option, def deserves a bigger rise.

C -> Higher: I agree that sun is a little underrated in the current meta. Sun is a little harder to use then other weathers, but it can pay off in big ways. Venusaur is a very strong offensive cleaner, and sun has a huge pool of breakers to choose from. Torkoal is also an amazing setter, being able to spin and set rocks and naturally being able to check some mons with its naturally high physical bulk.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about anything, I’m always open to criticism. Have a nice day!

 

[IBZ]

View attachment 370519 C+ -> B-: Specs. Boomburst. One of the few Electric types that can break the very common Sp. Def Ground types in the tier. This is a very important niche cause it allows toxtricity to blow huge holes in opposing teams with very little effort. You can also run options like life orb with fire punch to beat ferrothorn. Pretty cool option, def deserves a bigger rise.

Just a small note on this, for anyone like me who doubted that it could break through sp.def hippo, lando and Heatran:

252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 239-282 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Landorus-Therian: 225-265 (58.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 128+ SpD Heatran: 177-211 (45.8 - 54.6%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Although ttar and ferro can ignore specs, LO drain punch and fire punch can threaten both of them.

 

[RaikouLover]

Hey, I believe if you want to nominate something from UR, you gotta have some replays for it.

To make this post not just a reminder, I’ll make a nom. Ironically, this is for the opposite of sun.



C -> B-/C+

Seismitoad has had a very long history with SS OU, dating back to the Dracovish era. Unfortunately, since then, it has fallen off, but in my opinion, it still has a very solid place on rain teams.

It’s typing is great. A Water-type with another STAB to hit Toxapex with is very good. It also gives it good defensive utility due to its solid bulk for a rain sweeper. It also has access to Stealth Rock, letting perform as an offensive Stealth Rocker very well.

Due to its great coverage, it isn’t walled by any bulky Water-types due to access to STAB Earth Power/Earthquake for Toxapex, Sludge Wave for Tapu Fini, and even Power Whip for most of every other Water. This lets it break the bulky-Waters for Barraskewda to clean up late-game, which is extremely valuable considering how vulnerable Barra is to being walled by these bulky Waters. There has also been other options that have been experimented with, such as Focus Punch. Generally, however, you should only be fitting two of these, due to how mandatory Stealth Rock and Weather Ball are.

Overall, Seismitoad provides a valuable role on rain teams, which has been shown as it has now become a major part of this playstyle, and I see no reason as to why it should not rise to B-, or at the very least C+.

I am going to second this. I’ve been using rain almost exclusively this entire gen and it’s weird to me that Barraskewda is an entire letter rank above Toad. In my opinion Toad (especially with Choice Specs) is the best Swift Swimmer better than Skewda (they should be equal in rank at B) for several reasons -

-role compression (electric immunity)
-not walled by Pex
-movepool & seconday STAB
-bulk
-much better matchup vs Sand
-Special swift swim > physical swift swim (no contact /chip damage)
-less of a MU fish overall

Toad has similar damage output vs offensive mons overall and again, takes no chip damage:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Seismitoad Weather Ball (100 BP Water) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in Rain: 348-409 (97.4 - 114.5%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Barraskewda Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Garchomp in Rain: 343-405 (96 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[TailGlowVM]

It's been a long time since I posted on here, so I have quite a few nominations now:
from A to A-: I agree with others that Scizor might have been overrated slightly. It gets overwhelmed easily due to its rather mediocre bulk and being required to be at full health to check everything,, and it has to make the difficult choice of being an optimal switch-in either to the Grass-types or to Dragapult and Tapu Lele.
from A- to A: Hippowdon is a staple of balanced teams, being a good Stealth Rock setter, the most resilient Electric-type check in the tier, and also switching into various other common things like Heatran, Galarian Slowking, Volcarona and non-Hydro Pump Dragapult.
from A- to B+: Slowking is almost impossible to justify in the present meta, as it fails to do anything relevant besides scouting out Tapu Lele, and being a fake check to Heatran (which can still 1v1 it) and Volcanion (which overpowers it in rain with Choice Specs-boosted Steam Eruption if it burns) and makes nearly any team with it extremely weak to Urshifu-R, Dragapult and Weavile. It's also far more passive than it can afford, making it very vulnerable to common presences like Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Volcarona and Kyurem.
from B+ to A-: Slowbro is one of the few checks to the ever-prominent Melmetal and Urshifu-R in the tier, and it can lure in and eliminate Weavile with Colbur Berry + Body Press sets, which is very useful for Pokemon like Garchomp and Dragapult. It also can deal with the various offensive Ground-types fairly well, and some less used but somewhat relevant Pokemon like Blaziken, Victini and Galarian Zapdos, making it the far better Slowthing at this time.
from B+ to A-: Choice Band Tyranitar has very few switch-ins in the present meta - pretty much just defensive Garchomp, Buzzwole, and temporarily Urshifu-R and Melmetal. Against nearly any team without them - such as the prominent hail structures - it forces at least one KO upon entry. It is also pretty much the only Pokemon that really can abuse the dominance of Galarian Slowking, since they usually have ditched Scald for Ice Beam or Earthquake now.
from B to B+ (maybe higher, but didn't want to push it): Volcanion is a big threat to many common defensive cores at the moment, including the various Steel- and Ground-types that serve as special walls for most teams. It also is a rare switch-in to pretty much anything from Tapu Fini, is a one-time check to Volcarona, and softchecks Urshifu-R and other rain attackers. While limited by rain itself's ranking, Choice Specs sets are nigh on unwallable, 2HKOing everything other than Storm Drain Gastrodon, Dragonite, and Slowking in rain.

 

[TURBODERP]

Slowking is almost impossible to justify in the present meta, as it fails to do anything relevant besides scouting out Tapu Lele, and being a fake check to Heatran (which can still 1v1 it) and Volcanion (which overpowers it in rain with Choice Specs-boosted Steam Eruption if it burns) and makes nearly any team with it extremely weak to Urshifu-R, Dragapult and Weavile. It's also far more passive than it can afford, making it very vulnerable to common presences like Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Volcarona and Kyurem.

I want to preface the rest of my post: I don't mean to call out TailGlowVM specifically here, and in fact their post has a lot of good details and nominations that I agree with! This is something that a lot of us do when posting nominations, and I think we should strive to change it (and have kinda talked about it a bit before).

Looking at the bolded words in their nomination, one might think that Slowking is really quite bad in the meta (I agree that meta trends definitely do not favor it) and should not be used on most OU teams. It would not be unreasonable to infer that Slowking is being nominated to drop to the C-ranks (or even unranked, since all it can do against [rising] meta threats is scout out Tapu Lele).

But TailGlowVM is nominating for Slowking to be dropped from A- to B+. Their description of Slowking's viability (again, refer to the bolded bits in the quote) is not consistent at all with what B+ mons on the Viability rankings are - not top-tier meta threats, but a solid pick that doesn't necessitate too much building around. Again, I am saying TailGlowVM's post - which contains several valid observations IMO - is supporting a bigger drop than just going down one subrank to B+. But I see this a lot (and I've done/do it myself!) where people say "X mon is REALLY BAD/GOOD right now due to how it matches up against the meta" and then nominate it to move a subrank. If there's proof (REPLAYS, preferably on high-ladder/tournament, as well as analysis of other meta trends like what TailGlowVM wrote) of a Pokemon's greatly decreased or increased effectiveness in the meta in a short amount of time, then nominate an appropriately large shift and word it as such. If it's a small change in effectiveness in the meta, word it as such and nominate for an appropriate shift.

I think Arctozolt/Alolan Ninetales are a solid counterexample to the behavior I'm talking about - going from C-/unranked to A-rank really quickly AND appropriately, and not advancing incrementally. I think we should be more willing to have, or at least nominate, such shifts (if the situation is appropriate)...but we need to change how we word our nominations. The meta can and will change, sometimes rapidly (rise of Hail), sometimes less so (Weavile this gen, somewhat). Mons can thus fluctuate in viability a lot and if the situation fits, we should nominate bigger ranking changes and word them as such.

Also nominating Slowking to drop from A- to B for the reasons TailGlowVM stated.

 

[Mr.Goxel]

to B+

I feel like Hydreigon slipped past this last VR update. This nomination is pretty simple: Pokemon that are rising give Hydreigon headaches, and Pokemon that are dropping Hydreigon has good matchups against.

Slowking's meteoric fall is what really hurts Hydreigon the most simply because it has such a strong match up against the Pokemon and got to fire off moves for free upon switching in to it. While Slowking is still certainly a relevant threat, its placement on the updated VR suggests to me that Hydreigon's niche of countering it, is not as valuable.

As for the Pokemon that have risen: Weavile being good is nothing new but its recent rise has shown that it is clearly one of the meta-defining Pokemon in the tier. It should be obvious why Hydreigon struggles with Weavile, and with the latter being as prominent as it is, it has become more difficult for Hydreigon to set up with nasty plots as well having a new defensive headache. Furthermore the rise of Alolan Ninetails and Arctozolt do no favours for Hydreigon. I understand that Hydreigon tends to run Flash cannon for these situations but the calculations are not in its favour.

Hydreigon Tanking:

4 SpA Ninetales-Alola Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 218-258 (67 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

4 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 236-282 (72.6 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Hydreigon Attacking:

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arctozolt with an ally's Aurora Veil: 149-177 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arctozolt with an ally's Aurora Veil: 162-191 (50.4 - 59.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ninetales-Alola with an ally's Aurora Veil: 221-263 (63.1 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While it has not been as popular, I also think it is worth looking at icicle crash which Hydreigon fares even worse against:

252 Atk Arctozolt Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 254-300 (78.1 - 92.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

While this small wall of calculations might seem unnecessary to some since it should be obvious that Hydreigon struggles against hail, these calculations really show Hydreigon's lack of presence against the weather type. Additionally, I have given Hydreigon a life orb in these instances when it seems that leftovers has become a more popular option as of late for the offensive set. Should Hydreigon have leftovers, it is still destroyed by Arctozolt and Alolan Ninetails whilst posing even less of a threat to them offensively.

Moving past hail, while many have been arguing for Scizor to drop it is yet another Pokemon that has risen that gives Hydreigon a headache.

252 SpA Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 106-126 (30.9 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Should Hydreigon be life orb this changes to a 3HKO not that I think it makes much of a difference.

All things considered, Hydreigon still functions as good check to the Slowtwins+Galar. It also checks Dragapult decently well and is still threatening to many of the higher tier Pokemon mainly looking at Heatran, Toxapex, etc. Hydreigon feels slightly out of place next to the likes of Dragonite, Rillaboom and Volcorona who all have more impact on the meta and in team building. For these reasons I do not believe it is much worse than previous, just that it has fallen slightly out of favour which should be reflected in its dropping.

 

[Ctann]

B+ as a premier wall breaker. Can pull weight against bulkier or faster teams with a bulk up set. Or plough through slow teams with a mixed attacking set. Close combat is a straight team masher.

C (edited from B to C, mostly because heracross has a harder time being useful against offensive teams, which are the dominant team structure) as a faster “buzzwole lite”. After a swords dance, slower/bulky Pokémon have no hope, only unaware clefable can tank it’s heat and KO back. Sets up on landorus-T if it needs to. At +1 it’s facade can even permanently bruise or KO the most common pivot in OU.

what is everyone’s thoughts on the two most viable guts users?

Conk is disgusting, some teams are just simply not designed in a way to minimize its impact

heracross is a solid second place. It’s only secondary to conk due to no priority move and less physical bulk, both are important if you need to switch into attackers like Weavile and bisharp.

1. Use Conkeldurr if: you need a reliable Pokémon to open up a hole in the opposition AND you need an occasional check/knock off absorber for landorus, Weavile and friends. The lack of a fire weakness also means conk can hold its own vs heatran and victini.

2. Use heracross if: you need the speed and sheer power for slower teams. At +2 and burned, heracross is the strongest hitter in OU. At +1 it can outspeeds and OHKO the most common Landorus-therian variants, that’s a pretty big deal because it’s the only check present on a lot of teams! It’s biggest downfall is that fast paced high tempo teams will just do things like switch in a koko or fini immediately, making it hard to be useful, it’s also easy to revenge and can’t switch in as much as conk over a longer game.

The move sets are near identical for both:


@ flame orb
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close combat
- Knock off
- Mach Punch
- Facade / Bulk Up

you can replace the last move with a coverage type, but the first three usually are enough. Bulk up is to reduce how many hits you need to KO rocky helmet users, deal enough damage to regenerator Pokémon so they’re harder to use, deal a little better with landorus, or even become a bit of a wincon!

Conk has a harder time against Fini than heracross, and against an experienced player, they will try to get misty terrain up ASAP, so make sure you have a good switch in for her. Conk also dislikes landorus quite a lot, but lures it in and knocks off its item, unless it runs ice punch. Outside of landorus, dragonite, and taking only one round of rough skin damage from Garchomp, ice punch isn’t as useful as the other moves on average .

@ flame orb
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Swords Dance / Earthquake / Megahorn / Stone edge

Jolly nature beats most zapdos, heatran, buzzwole, landorus-therian and all the other bulky Pokémon in the middle speed tiers. Adamant nature is very important if you want to delete toxapex at +2 and need to squeeze out more damage against buzzwole. Adamant is also required to 2hko unaware 252/252 bold clefable on the switch with facade and no prior damage.

Usually swords dance allows you to swing the heaviest hits and makes switch around with bulky regenerator users near-impossible. It also means you usually need to take only one round of rocky helmet damage from certain switch ins such as landorus, buzzwole, corviknight, tangrowth, etc. otherwise pick a coverage move based on what you need deleted.


—

Conk can’t really “set up” on many Pokémon, however it scares out a lot, and after a bulk up, you only need to take rocky helmet damage once against 90% of the OU users assuming they’re sub 90% HP.

Heracross sets up on OUs most used pivot! And can also use it’s typing/speed to scare out Rillaboom and various other offensive threats.

 

[TailGlowVM]

B+ as a premier wall breaker. Can pull weight against bulkier or faster teams with a bulk up set. Or plough through slow teams with a mixed attacking set. Close combat is a straight team masher.

B as a faster “buzzwole lite”. After a swords dance, slower/bulky Pokémon have no hope, only unaware clefable can tank it’s heat and KO back. Sets up on landorus-T if it needs to. At +1 it’s facade can even permanently bruise or KO the most common pivot in OU.

what is everyone’s thoughts on the two most viable guts users?

Conk is disgusting, some teams are just simply not designed in a way to minimize its impact

heracross is a solid second place. It’s only secondary to conk due to no priority move and less physical bulk, both are important if you need to switch into attackers like Weavile and bisharp.

1. Use Conkeldurr if: you need a reliable Pokémon to open up a hole in the opposition AND you need an occasional check/knock off absorber for landorus, Weavile and friends. The lack of a fire weakness also means conk can hold its own vs heatran and victini.

2. Use heracross if: you need the speed and sheer power for slower teams. At +2 and burned, heracross is the strongest hitter in OU. At +1 it can outspeeds and OHKO the most common Landorus-therian variants, that’s a pretty big deal because it’s the only check present on a lot of teams!

The move sets are near identical for both:


@ flame orb
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Close combat
- Knock off
- Mach Punch
- Facade / Bulk Up

@ flame orb
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Swords Dance / Earthquake / Megahorn / Stone edge

Jolly nature beats most zapdos, heatran, buzzwole, landorus-therian and all the other bulky Pokémon in the middle speed tiers. Adamant nature is very important if you want to delete toxapex at +2 and need to squeeze out more damage against buzzwole.

Usually swords dance allows you to swing the heaviest hits and makes switch around with bulky regenerator users near-impossible.


—

Conk can’t really “set up” on many Pokémon, however it scares out a lot, and after a bulk up, you only need to take rocky helmet damage once against 90% of the OU users assuming they’re sub 90% HP.

Heracross sets up on OUs most used pivot! And can also use it’s typing/speed to scare out Rillaboom and various other offensive threats.

Why would you use either of these Pokemon over Urshifu-R, which hits harder than Heracross and almost as hard as Conkeldurr, is much faster, has access to priority and U-turn, and has Water STAB to destroy Landorus-T and all the other Flying and Fairy types that could attempt to check Fighting-types? It can even run Bulk Up if you really need it, and can provide actual defensive utility, checking Weavile.

Conkeldurr remains ranked only for its prowess on Trick Room, where its lower Speed and perfect (though more prediction-reliant) coverage is preferred.

 

[Baddy]

from UR to C

Entei @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stomping Tantrum
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic

this is the set i've found lots of success with, i choose hdb over band so it can switch in on a few pokes with its deceptive bulk (base 115hp)

entei is really good at crippling fatter mons by either doing damage with sacred fire or firing off toxics

calcs vs fat

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 210-248 (52.5 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 271-321 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
after some chip blissey can't safely switch in on entei as it'll get 2hko'd

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
clefable is one of the better checks to it but again after some chip entei can put in work

dies

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Garchomp: 64-76 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
calc is irrelevant but tank chomp getting burned or toxic'd on the switch is huge since it has no reliable recovery. it also lives eq from 0atk chomp


252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 288-340 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
since entei isn't used in ou a lot of heatran users don't actually expect the stomping tantrum and standard defensive heatrans can't kill it back with anything

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO
hippo probably thinks it can switch in on entei if it's the team's physical wall but if you throw off a toxic instead then hippo will be permanently crippled throughout the game. worth nothing that entei also survives an eq at full so if you don't think you need hp on entei you can stay in and use toxic

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Landorus-Therian: 162-192 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
the common spdef lando is a deceptive switch-in for entei as it ignores intimidate and risks getting 2hko'd with burn. if you burn on the switch then you can easily 2hko as you outspeed. phys def lando is more problematic for entei but it is still never a safe switch-in

dies

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 170-204 (50.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and
getting a toxic off on the slowtwins is really helpful for wearing them down and stops them from being switch-ins for your other offensive threats. alone, the slowtwins are good switch-ins for entei but entei is free to stay in and toxic and cripple them for the rest of the game. however, if you sacred fire on the switch to the slowtwins and they get burned then you can no longer toxic them and it becomes very annoying so you may have to play around that

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
easy kill for entei as slowking cannot kill entei back unless it's half hp

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 81-96 (20 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
swampert could be a good switch-in but just like all the defensive grounds it doesn't want to get burned or toxic'd so switching in on entei is very risky. swampert is hardly used anyway

252 Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
the ultimate entei counter. entei can do nothing against fini. however once your opponent realises how hard fini counters entei the switch-in will become so obvious that you can just double out to something that actually beats fini. or if it's non-leftovers fini you can just hurt it on the switch and after rocks that's 30% it won't be getting back

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 180-213 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
torn does actually have a 9% chance to 2hko entei with 2 hurricanes but the odds are very slim. pivot torn does not want to get burned or toxic'd either

252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 80-96 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
basically a fini that can recover on you forever. however, the difference between pex and fini is that pex can get burned by sacred fire if it switches in.

252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
no reliable recovery for ttar and risks getting burned on sacred fire switch-in

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 135-160 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
zap can roost off the damage quite easily and like the slowtwins, if it gets burned instead of toxic'd then it can be more annoying to kill

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 170-204 (40.6 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
max def buzz doesn't even get 2hko'd because it is ridiculously bulky but if it tries to roost off the damage eventually you will burn it and then you can 2hko it

although hardly a switch-in, entei is good against a lot of offensive mons in the meta too as it either outspeeds and does damage or burns any physical threats. if you scroll through every poke in ou you can see that entei has a favourable matchup vs majority of the meta.

you can stay in on a few offensive threats and kill them back

calcs vs fast

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 233-275 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 472-564 (182.2 - 217.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 326-386 (101.5 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 256-303 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 426-504 (151.6 - 179.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei in Electric Terrain: 195-229 (52.5 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 92-109 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO

i only showed a few calcs for common pokes that outspeed and where the winner might not be obvious

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1408744606-l09c245345ch3s60gir1i1jdhrwn93tpw
risky entei plays leads to it finishing off 5 mons

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1405562403-jbv10eb8nyszejdv2xj95c9cj1w2a9jpw
entei puts in tons of work against 4 pokes that beat it

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1400866808-b9urx166qh046eelp197wr400kfjkxapw
entei finishes off a bunch of offensive mons

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1396043822-526fi34ahl01danbqx5a9scbg5tpo0fpw
stupid plays and risky end game predictions lets entei beat salty guy

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1394446325-2r1w2ma4b1ksayee9rqte1buhhfe12dpw
if you use entei do not play like this but it shows how heatran users may not expect stomping tantrum

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1393526096-7e4sl0kn4ts6aqmle1xl17bspvjpobppw
entei sweep denied by forfeit but still puts in massive work by using toxic on volc to stop it from sweeping as well as burning ttar and nearly killing corv

i've had games where entei put in more work but i usually don't save my replays

overall, i think entei is highly underrated in the current meta, being able to either cripple things with burn or toxic or just straight up kill them. entei has tons of good matchups and since it's not used in ou people don't really know what to expect from it. i would personally put it in the low B ranks but since it's unproven i think C rank is reasonable.

 

[glava222]

from UR to C

Entei @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stomping Tantrum
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic

this is the set i've found lots of success with, i choose hdb over band so it can switch in on a few pokes with its deceptive bulk (base 115hp)

entei is really good at crippling fatter mons by either doing damage with sacred fire or firing off toxics

calcs vs fat

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 210-248 (52.5 - 62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 271-321 (37.9 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
after some chip blissey can't safely switch in on entei as it'll get 2hko'd

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 132-156 (33.5 - 39.5%) -- 17.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
clefable is one of the better checks to it but again after some chip entei can put in work

dies

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Garchomp: 64-76 (15.2 - 18%) -- possible 6HKO
calc is irrelevant but tank chomp getting burned or toxic'd on the switch is huge since it has no reliable recovery. it also lives eq from 0atk chomp


252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 288-340 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
since entei isn't used in ou a lot of heatran users don't actually expect the stomping tantrum and standard defensive heatrans can't kill it back with anything

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 97-115 (23 - 27.3%) -- 63.6% chance to 4HKO
hippo probably thinks it can switch in on entei if it's the team's physical wall but if you throw off a toxic instead then hippo will be permanently crippled throughout the game. worth nothing that entei also survives an eq at full so if you don't think you need hp on entei you can stay in and use toxic

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Landorus-Therian: 162-192 (42.5 - 50.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
the common spdef lando is a deceptive switch-in for entei as it ignores intimidate and risks getting 2hko'd with burn. if you burn on the switch then you can easily 2hko as you outspeed. phys def lando is more problematic for entei but it is still never a safe switch-in

dies

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 170-204 (50.8 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and
getting a toxic off on the slowtwins is really helpful for wearing them down and stops them from being switch-ins for your other offensive threats. alone, the slowtwins are good switch-ins for entei but entei is free to stay in and toxic and cripple them for the rest of the game. however, if you sacred fire on the switch to the slowtwins and they get burned then you can no longer toxic them and it becomes very annoying so you may have to play around that

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Slowking-Galar: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
easy kill for entei as slowking cannot kill entei back unless it's half hp

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 81-96 (20 - 23.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
swampert could be a good switch-in but just like all the defensive grounds it doesn't want to get burned or toxic'd so switching in on entei is very risky. swampert is hardly used anyway

252 Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Tapu Fini: 56-66 (16.2 - 19.1%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
the ultimate entei counter. entei can do nothing against fini. however once your opponent realises how hard fini counters entei the switch-in will become so obvious that you can just double out to something that actually beats fini. or if it's non-leftovers fini you can just hurt it on the switch and after rocks that's 30% it won't be getting back

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 180-213 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
torn does actually have a 9% chance to 2hko entei with 2 hurricanes but the odds are very slim. pivot torn does not want to get burned or toxic'd either

252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 80-96 (26.3 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
basically a fini that can recover on you forever. however, the difference between pex and fini is that pex can get burned by sacred fire if it switches in.

252 Atk Entei Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 138-164 (34.1 - 40.5%) -- 47.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
no reliable recovery for ttar and risks getting burned on sacred fire switch-in

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 248 HP / 220 Def Zapdos: 135-160 (35.2 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
zap can roost off the damage quite easily and like the slowtwins, if it gets burned instead of toxic'd then it can be more annoying to kill

252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 170-204 (40.6 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
max def buzz doesn't even get 2hko'd because it is ridiculously bulky but if it tries to roost off the damage eventually you will burn it and then you can 2hko it

although hardly a switch-in, entei is good against a lot of offensive mons in the meta too as it either outspeeds and does damage or burns any physical threats. if you scroll through every poke in ou you can see that entei has a favourable matchup vs majority of the meta.

you can stay in on a few offensive threats and kill them back

calcs vs fast

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 233-275 (62.8 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 472-564 (182.2 - 217.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Arctozolt Bolt Beak (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 265-313 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arctozolt: 326-386 (101.5 - 120.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Entei: 256-303 (69 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Weavile: 426-504 (151.6 - 179.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Tapu Koko Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Entei in Electric Terrain: 195-229 (52.5 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 92-109 (32.7 - 38.7%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO

i only showed a few calcs for common pokes that outspeed and where the winner might not be obvious

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1408744606-l09c245345ch3s60gir1i1jdhrwn93tpw
risky entei plays leads to it finishing off 5 mons

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1405562403-jbv10eb8nyszejdv2xj95c9cj1w2a9jpw
entei puts in tons of work against 4 pokes that beat it

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1400866808-b9urx166qh046eelp197wr400kfjkxapw
entei finishes off a bunch of offensive mons

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1396043822-526fi34ahl01danbqx5a9scbg5tpo0fpw
stupid plays and risky end game predictions lets entei beat salty guy

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1394446325-2r1w2ma4b1ksayee9rqte1buhhfe12dpw
if you use entei do not play like this but it shows how heatran users may not expect stomping tantrum

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1393526096-7e4sl0kn4ts6aqmle1xl17bspvjpobppw
entei sweep denied by forfeit but still puts in massive work by using toxic on volc to stop it from sweeping as well as burning ttar and nearly killing corv

i've had games where entei put in more work but i usually don't save my replays

overall, i think entei is highly underrated in the current meta, being able to either cripple things with burn or toxic or just straight up kill them. entei has tons of good matchups and since it's not used in ou people don't really know what to expect from it. i would personally put it in the low B ranks but since it's unproven i think C rank is reasonable.

I think this is a good nom, have been seeing some entei used, even if it was mostly on sun, but it does seem to be a decent mon

 

[Ctann]

Why would you use either of these Pokemon over Urshifu-R, which hits harder than Heracross and almost as hard as Conkeldurr, is much faster, has access to priority and U-turn, and has Water STAB to destroy Landorus-T and all the other Flying and Fairy types that could attempt to check Fighting-types? It can even run Bulk Up if you really need it, and can provide actual defensive utility, checking Weavile.

Conkeldurr remains ranked only for its prowess on Trick Room, where its lower Speed and perfect (though more prediction-reliant) coverage is preferred.

these break toxapex and slowbro. Whilst not necessarily losing to fringe checks like Buzzwole, Tapu Bulu and even the crème de la crème of physical water resists and scouting physical attackers: tangrowth. They also couldn’t care less about future sight support.

urshifu might reliably switch into Weavile, but it can’t reliably switch into both scald and knock off from the defensive tanks.

In some matchups against these types of teams, urshifu will feel like dead weight offensively.

if urshifu is a bruiser with fringe benefits like checking Weavile. The conk+Hera guts pair are breakers, sure to punch holes in teams and get key threats to KO thresholds for the other Pokémon on the team.

That’s the reason.

heracross can even muscle past defensive fini if you pre-activate it’s flame orb before she switches in. Conk can’t easily break fini, but if it’s flame orb is already triggered, it will put a strong dent.

bullet points , for people skimming:

• guts allows you to change moves, so prediction with a switch in only works if you predict correctly with a faster switch in, such as a Tapu koko on a knock off, or a dragapult on a close combat
• Thanks to the guts boost, there are no common switch ins for either of these. Heracross is more adept at deleting slower threats, including those in the 200-275 speed range (such as bulky zapdos, buzzwole, landorus therian, sometimes a tapu fini, etc), whilst Conkeldurr is overall more useful against offensive teams.
• Key checks to physical fighting types, such as toxapex, slowbro, buzzwole and tangrowth will all have a hard time actually switching into these two attackers, especially with the ability to change moves whilst doing peak damage (urshifu needs a band)
• Can reliably switch into scald, thunderwave or knock off from defensive Pokémon.

 

[AM]

Conk is fine but B+ is too high. C+ would be fine. It's strong but it being slow as hell makes its matchup against offensive staples a bit horrid at times. You have to sort of fish for a great matchup against fatter builds for it to really put in work. Truthfully I would never use it on Trick Room, and I haven't yet those builds already have like 5 mons set it stone and the last slot being something else to supplement A-Wak. It's better on the type of builds Ctann posted in his replay.

 

[Ctann]

Conk is fine but B+ is too high. C+ would be fine. It's strong but it being slow as hell makes its matchup against offensive staples a bit horrid at times. You have to sort of fish for a great matchup against fatter builds for it to really put in work. Truthfully I would never use it on Trick Room, and I haven't yet those builds already have like 5 mons set it stone and the last slot being something else to supplement A-Wak. It's better on the type of builds Ctann posted in his replay.

thanks for the reply, Conkeldurr definitely has the main flaw of needing to predict carefully against some faster, offensive teams. For example a zapdos might come in on conk, take heavy damage, but now you’re on a 50/50 prediction of whether it will roost or try to attack. For the example of a zapdos interaction: Usually a knock off is done first, switch back out, then a close combat on a second switch in, and then I’ll leave conk in to suicide (or Mach punch if it’s in range), but deny the chance to roost, because I use it with Pokémon that also appreciate zapdos at sub 50%. If you have something that can take advantage of a free turn in the event of a roost, whilst not necessarily fainting to a hurricane, like a Garchomp or Lele switch in, that’s even better!

naturally fast bulky types like fini, buzzwole, zapdos, etc affects its breaking viability a little, as you’ll need reliable switch ins if you’re not willing to risk losing your Conkeldurr, but they can’t punish a guts user as easily as they can punish a choice banded u turn, so it’s easier to make progress.

The reality is, Conkeldurr gets the chance to repeat these types of interactions a lot of times thanks to not caring about things like static, and having bulk up to make close combat a health mashing move that forces a lot of Pokémon into sub 50%.

And almost every relevant rocky helmet user is slower, physically defensive landorus-t and buzzwole are the main rocky helmet obstacles that are faster. So it’s quite difficult to punish a Conkeldurr regularly over a game.

I found bulk up makes it near-impossible for regenerator spam and fringe checks like rocky helmet Garchomp to whittle it down reliably. It also reduces how much a landorus-t can wear you down, making conk one of the best partners for teams that need a landorus sub 50%.

remember in a lot of cases you don’t actually need to, or sometimes even want to, KO a check. You often just need it in range for a partner, Conkeldurr works best on teams where 3-4 Pokémon share the same checks with it, and it works really well !

against highly offensive teams, you really want to use conk defensively.. as counterintuitive as that might sound. For example it can act as a clutch knock off switch in, forcing out most Weavile and bisharp, as well as a sub 70% Kartana. Weavile, bisharp and Kartana are extremely common on the all-offense teams! It can be used to aggressively double switch so you get a 100% health matchup against a scarfed victini, sub-roost kyurem, etc. if you’re paranoid about offensive teams, consider ice punch to remove landorus faster, and reduce the chance of dragonite mauling your team.

 

[hmsa2012]

After seeing Arctozolt being a menace during the metagame right now, I would like to see its Sand counterpart, Dracozolt, nominated at B+ and stop being slept on.

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Level: 100
Naughty Nature
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 148 Atk / 176 SpA / 184 Spe
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Low Kick
- Fire Blast

This Pokemon is a demon and shouldn't be messed with when built well in a Sand-Grassy Terrain team. Fire Blast is capable of OHKOing Ferrothorn and Kartana. Bolt Beak does massive damage to anything that isn't a Ground-type and can stallbreak fat cores without much repercussion. Low Kick can deal with Tyranitar and Kryuem, with the latter getting OHKOed if it took damage from Stealth Rock. Draco Meteor can deal damage to dragons such as Dragapult, Garchomp, and Dragonite while it outspeeds all of them in Sand.

Looking at the current viability list, outside of Lando and Hippo, it can deal with the S-, A+ and A mons pretty fairly. I think B+ is fair due to it being strictly viable only in Sand teams, as well as other viable Choice Scarf users can still outspeed with these Speed EVs, such as Tapu Lele, Dragapult, and Lando (though with EV speed, you risk speed tie). I think Dracozolt's biggest weakness, however, is its dependency on other teammates, those can wear its primarly Ground-type checks. In summary, use this mon if you hate fat teams lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1408484712 - switch ins? None.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1406468592 - Dracozolt demolishes rain + ferro

 

[Darkortex]

After seeing Arctozolt being a menace during the metagame right now, I would like to see its Sand counterpart, Dracozolt, nominated at B+ and stop being slept on.

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Level: 100
Naughty Nature
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 148 Atk / 176 SpA / 184 Spe
- Bolt Beak
- Draco Meteor
- Low Kick
- Fire Blast

This Pokemon is a demon and shouldn't be messed with when built well in a Sand-Grassy Terrain team. Fire Blast is capable of OHKOing Ferrothorn and Kartana. Bolt Beak does massive damage to anything that isn't a Ground-type and can stallbreak fat cores without much repercussion. Low Kick can deal with Tyranitar and Kryuem, with the latter getting OHKOed if it took damage from Stealth Rock. Draco Meteor can deal damage to dragons such as Dragapult, Garchomp, and Dragonite while it outspeeds all of them in Sand.

Looking at the current viability list, outside of Lando and Hippo, it can deal with the S-, A+ and A mons pretty fairly. I think B+ is fair due to it being strictly viable only in Sand teams, as well as other viable Choice Scarf users can still outspeed with these Speed EVs, such as Tapu Lele, Dragapult, and Lando (though with EV speed, you risk speed tie). I think Dracozolt's biggest weakness, however, is its dependency on other teammates, those can wear its primarly Ground-type checks. In summary, use this mon if you hate fat teams lol.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1408484712 - switch ins? None.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1406468592 - Dracozolt demolishes rain + ferro

The main issue here is that those two pokemon, lando and hippo, dominate it so hard that it struggles to find a place to actually wallbreak or clean vs most teams. The recent advent of spD lando in particular was a serious blow to dracozolt's viability, requiring it to make multiple risky predictions just to take down one pokemon and still not making significant progress, as even draco meteor doesn't 2hko SpD after stealth rock + 2 rounds of leftovers. Hippowdon effortlessly shrugs off any hit it makes, and its reliable recovery in slack off makes it far more difficult to weather down with repeated hits. Even more niche options like the occasional swampert and gastrodon (oh hey it's that mon used on fat teams sometimes) can make its life extremely difficult. Considering that hippowdon and gastrodon are staples of many bulkier teams, it also means that it doesn't have a primary archetype it can prey on, contrasting it with something like Barraskewda vs Hyper offense or specs heatran vs fat.

Additionally, its susceptibility to being worn down by life orb, weakness to all forms of entry hazards, and reliance on hard predictions + weather make it anywhere from a matchup fish to outright mediocre. Its restriction to sand teams is already one hurdle that immensely hinders its viability, as hippowdon is a pokemon notorious for killing offensive momentum while tyranitar stacks weaknesses to grounds and fairies and forces the team to find a different ground type (Excadrill deserves its own post about its issues tbh). Both pokemon need an item besides smooth rock in order to be successful on a game to game basis, meaning that either dracozolt has to make use of what is normally 3 sand turns (switch in to the setter, then switch out) at most, or has to cripple its teammate to get by. Hail, sun, and rain can justify this since their abusers, namely arctozolt, venusaur + fire type super-breakers, and swift swimmers, are so immensely powerful and difficult to deal with on their own that their teamslot can be just a support slot. Dracozolt is a pokemon that struggles to reach this level of self-sufficiency, as it relies on a self-KOing life orb, double switches, and being provided repeated switchins + excellent hazard control in order to be useful.

All in all, dracozolt does not deserve to rise to B+, instead, I nominate that it should drop from B to B-.

 

[ausma]

I'd like to nominate Ferrothorn from A to A+.

Ferrothorn is a Pokemon that I feel has gotten really strong in recent weeks, and is one of the biggest beneficiaries of the tier's latest trends. Between Tapu Koko rising as the Electric-type of choice on many Bulky Offenses, as well as Arctozolt being a menacing presence in its own right, Ferrothorn's attributes as a Spikes setter, wall, and general purpose disruptor with access to Knock Off and Leech Seed give it a lot of value and make it a very flexible pick on many hazard stacking bulky offenses and even a good amount of balances. On top of being able to check Arctozolt and Tapu Koko, its defensive typing and natural bulk let it serve as a very solid Weavile, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Melmetal, and Scizor check that, similarly to Toxapex, is able to exploit its bulk and typing to force switches, using those switches as an opportunity to force progress. It is also really difficult to kill because of its bulk, and with how reliably it sets Leech Seed, it has startling longevity that simultaneously chips its switch-ins; this, currently, is incredibly valuable with how important it is right now to keep your team healthy, and compounded by the fact that it has Iron Barbs to screw with opposing U-turn (notably the U-turns of Tapu Koko and Landorus-T) and Knock Off. In essence, Ferrothorn not only sustains itself, but creates reliable progress at the same time. This in tandem with its reliability as a Spikes setter, general lack of passivity, and its premium defensive typing make it a definite A+ threat at this time, imo.

 

[Clone]

I agree with the above. The damn thing never dies

 

[Magcargo]

On top of being able to check Arctozolt and Tapu Koko, its defensive typing and natural bulk let it serve as a very solid Weavile, Tapu Lele, Tapu Fini, Melmetal, and Scizor check that, similarly to Toxapex, is able to exploit its bulk and typing to force switches, using those switches as an opportunity to force progress.

I wouldn't really call Ferrothorn a Scizor check. Unless Ferrothorn is running ID + BP, it doesn't do enough damage to stop Scizor from setting up to +6 and sweeping. Still, Iron Barbs can make it an annoying presence on the opponent's team, especially if its paired with Lando-T.

I found bulk up makes it near-impossible for regenerator spam and fringe checks like rocky helmet Garchomp to whittle it down reliably. It also reduces how much a landorus-t can wear you down, making conk one of the best partners for teams that need a landorus sub 50%.

I stole your Conk team from the OU meta thread and I haven't found Bulk Up to be to useful against the main Regen mon, Toxapex, since its are either paired up with Fairy-types, which resist both CC and Knock Off, or Lando-T, which just nulifies your BU attack boost and forces you to take more chip from burn. If anything, I think Facade would be more useful vs these type of teams since you can pressure Pex by dealing big damage to it immediately and deal big damage to both Lando-T and Clefable on the switch.

Aside from that nitpick, I agree with raising Conk. Mach Punch is a really nice tool in this meta to pick off all the Weavile, Kartana, and Arctozolt running around on offense. And like you said, not having to deal with annoyances like Scald or Knock Off crippling you or being locked into the wrong move are really nice perks that it has over Urshifu.

 

[Red Raven]

I wanna make a few noms atm. I'll just cut to the chase and start with the drops

to B+

Now, this might seem controversial but in all honesty, I don't see it standing on the same level as the likes of Lele or Kartana. It heavily relies on hail and if there is an opposing weather, Snowtales can easily be pressured if stealth rock is on the field and if there is an infiltrator Dragapult or yache Garchomp, this thing is not gonna have an easy time if hail is down. I'm not saying this mon is bad, that would be [REDACTED] but I think its placement in the A ranks was a bit too hasty since people were still trying to figure out how to deal with this thing when the shifts happen


to A

This might seem weird but in all honesty, I just don't see Moistshifu being better than the other wall breakers living in A rank. Yes, it has u turn and priority but Toxapex is still everywhere and it is possible for Pex to wall Shifu even with FS. If that wasn't bad enough, Tapu Fini is also back and while Fini can't stave it off forever like Pex can, it doesn't really have. It's not a bad pokemon per se but I just don't see it being a subrank above its fellow wall breakers. It still has an ever irritating stab close combat which hits a lot of the tier hard and has annoying bulk on the physical side. Having said that, I'm probably missing one or two things about this guy so I could be wrong in my thoughts on this


to B / B-

There's always been a problem for me about spdef bulky waters and that's the electric types. That normally wouldn't be an issue because that's just one type but really, Slowking horribly dies to Dragapult which is a premier pseudo cleaner / wallbreaker. If that wasn't bad enough, it faces stiff competition from the unkillable abomination known as Toxapex, who has an incredibly obnoxious typing and Tapu Fini who can run sets that are not dedicated bulky water stuff. Competition and the fact that it dies horribly to the best mon in the tier is just too big of a flaw for it to be in A- rank imo


For the rises, I wanna start with



to B

I've already talked about it great detail here and I think it deserves a place in the vr. With all the things it offers in one pokemon, I don't think it is as niche as the mons in the C ranks and it's definitely not a B- imo. B rank is a bit fine since that is where the other lesser used bulky waters in Swampert and Gastrodon reside


to B+


This pokemon is incredibly obnoxious. If it is on rain teams, then rain boosted hydro scalds are near unwallable and it does have a very handy ability in water absorb which means it's stealth rock weakness shouldn't be that much of a hindrance for it. Outside of rain, it isn't too unmanageable but just the fact that it has a combination of hydro pump and scald means it can inflict burns which are always annoying. It does get walled by Pex outside of rain but then again, most offensive waters are almost always walled by defensive waters


to A-

Really, this thing is so annoying to deal with. The only true safe switch is Buzzwall which isn't on every team and it's coverage hits very hard. Revenge killing it isn't difficult but switching into it is not. The only real drawback to it is the fact that stone miss never hits but with pseudo recovery in horn leech and two strong coverage moves, I think it is better than the ones in B+ ranks. There's also the fact that there are very few poison type moves running around which means this mon can very feasibly just take a super effective hit and kill you right back


to A-


This mon is another one that has an incredibly annoying one to switch into. Ngl, I'm not wholly convinced I should nom it to higher but at the same time, it sits on the borderline of A- and B+. Stab stone edge are really brutal, if it hits, and it has an even more brutal lash out to make Landorus regret ever switching into it. It does have very massive issues as it dies to all the ground, water and fighting type moves running around so I think it is at the bottom of A-. However, with Snowtales' aurora veil being so obnoxious, having a wall breaker than can disrupt the hail can be valuable especially if you can't find a slot for anti hail measures. I mean, Godzilla still has a hundred and thirty four attack


to A-

It's the same story as Godzilla. It takes Dragapult's shadow ball spam concept but hits it much harder. Without Godzilla's pursuit, Blace is really having a field day this generation. If that's not enough, an incredibly reliable hazard removal in Corvibirb also helps it a lot. I would think that this should share the rank of the other wall breakers but this mon's only utility is making a risky switch into close combats. Resisted hits against this mon just straight up leave it hanging by the skin of its teeth which I think is far too fatal for it to be ranked higher than A- since the other wall breakers have some sort of useful resistances that they can actually use


to S-


I still think Garchomp is far too consistent for it to be in A+. It's unique quality of having a stab combination that cannot be spammed and has a resistance to stealth rocks means that it doesn't have to use boots or a choice item. This leaves it with more items to play with. Life orb was the default in the good old days since it needed to dish out strong hits asap and leftovers only became the standard because life orb sucks on non hyper offense. Perhaps most important of all is Garchomp's error friendly nature. Unlike most other offensive mons, it can take strong super effective hits without immediately dying and with yache berry, that means that only things that can kill it are outrages or draco meteors, maybe triple axel. It's above average stats allows a Garchomp player more breathing room for mistakes, which while not ideal, can come in handy because everyone makes mistakes or the rng just screws you over and having a pokemon that isn't that punished for making mistakes makes it more useful. Garchomp definitely is the least flashiest of just about all the common offensive mons but it is incredibly consistent with the aformentioned free items and stats

Other stuff I agree with

to A+

In all honesty, I would just ban this from ou. Not because it's broken but because there is no other pokemon in the game that makes me wanna rip my face off. This mon is unbelievably obnoxious and its switch ins are always going to be annoyed one way or the other. But yeah, ausma is right. This mon deserves a rise

to B-

This might seem harsh but really, life orb isn't the best of items and it really thuds against Landorus because it now goes with spdef investment. If that wasn't bad enough, it gets completely hard countered by spdef Hippo, which means it needs additional support to deal with the Hippo and dedicated sand teams are already pressed for slots as they are. As Darkortex also stated, it really cannot afford to pair with choice band Tyranitar since the sand turns run out so quick and since it needs a life orb, it's resistances is also very limited since it is affected by all the hazards and it's slowly killing itself


Well, that's my take for now

 

[Ctann]

I wouldn't really call Ferrothorn a Scizor check. Unless Ferrothorn is running ID + BP, it doesn't do enough damage to stop Scizor from setting up to +6 and sweeping. Still, Iron Barbs can make it an annoying presence on the opponent's team, especially if its paired with Lando-T.


I stole your Conk team from the OU meta thread and I haven't found Bulk Up to be to useful against the main Regen mon, Toxapex, since its are either paired up with Fairy-types, which resist both CC and Knock Off, or Lando-T, which just nulifies your BU attack boost and forces you to take more chip from burn. If anything, I think Facade would be more useful vs these type of teams since you can pressure Pex by dealing big damage to it immediately and deal big damage to both Lando-T and Clefable on the switch.

Aside from that nitpick, I agree with raising Conk. Mach Punch is a really nice tool in this meta to pick off all the Weavile, Kartana, and Arctozolt running around on offense. And like you said, not having to deal with annoyances like Scald or Knock Off crippling you or being locked into the wrong move are really nice perks that it has over Urshifu.

thanks for the feedback, I found that 252/252 bold toxapex is more of a problem if you’re relying on conk to break only, so yes facade is a better breaker in those situations! Any tox that isn’t 252/252 is KO’d by +1 knock off followed by regular close combat. usually a slowking-g or even chomp switch in quickly forces out tox anyway, so it’s not even a threat to the team really.

Clefairy in particular requires a knock off on the switch and then forcing it into sub 80% range with high pressure (it doesn’t like coming in on anything, and unaware can be thunder waved so it can’t stall out your squad, if it’s unaware with heal bell, then Kartana comes in for free). If it’s not a 252/252 bold clefable, it can’t even come in on close combat! Slowbro-G makes a great multipurpose scout for all sorts of fringe flamethrowers, thunderwaves and toxics.

Happy to share a few replays so you can see how the team molds together, basically Rillaboom supplies passive healing coming in on average 3+ times per game to set terrain, whilst you apply strong offensive pressure with all the threats.

let me know what else you found and advice you have, you’ll find the main struggles are against dragapult and tornadus-t, sometimes dragonite, sun and even rain teams believe it or not (it’s the 100% accurate hurricanes that destroy the team against rain!!!)

—

specifically about conkagainst a lot of bulky offense, it’s hard to find the space to use facade, and landorus just needs to be sub ~60% for the specific team you tried using. Bulk up comes in handy as a tech against the top rated teams because toxapex and friends can’t afford to constantly stall out turns in a meta where strong
offense is king. Peaked at 2027 elo rank #3 so far, and it’s deliberately designed to struggle against flying types lol.

heracross on the other hand always needs facade!

 

[Magcargo]

thanks for the feedback, I found that 252/252 bold toxapex is more of a problem if you’re relying on conk to break only, so yes facade is a better breaker in those situations! Any tox that isn’t 252/252 is KO’d by +1 knock off followed by regular close combat. usually a slowking-g or even chomp switch in quickly forces out tox anyway, so it’s not even a threat to the team really.

Clefairy in particular requires a knock off on the switch and then forcing it into sub 80% range with high pressure (it doesn’t like coming in on anything, and unaware can be thunder waved so it can’t stall out your squad, if it’s unaware with heal bell, then Kartana comes in for free). If it’s not a 252/252 bold clefable, it can’t even come in on close combat! Slowbro-G makes a great multipurpose scout for all sorts of fringe flamethrowers, thunderwaves and toxics.

Happy to share a few replays so you can see how the team molds together, basically Rillaboom supplies passive healing coming in on average 3+ times per game to set terrain, whilst you apply strong offensive pressure with all the threats.

let me know what else you found and advice you have, you’ll find the main struggles are against dragapult and tornadus-t, sometimes dragonite, sun and even rain teams believe it or not (it’s the 100% accurate hurricanes that destroy the team against rain!!!)

—

specifically about conkagainst a lot of bulky offense, it’s hard to find the space to use facade, and landorus just needs to be sub ~60% for the specific team you tried using. Bulk up comes in handy as a tech against the top rated teams because toxapex and friends can’t afford to constantly stall out turns in a meta where strong
offense is king. Peaked at 2027 elo rank #3 so far, and it’s deliberately designed to struggle against flying types lol.

heracross on the other hand always needs facade!

Yeah, Toxapex alone isn't too big of a threat to the team, though the common stall cores its ran on with with stuff like Corviknight, Blissey, Heatran, etc. can be annoying. Then again, these teams are pretty annoying to face in general & I believe I can optimize the matchup by reading the opponent better trying to set-up entry hazards earlier in the match (I normally don't prioritize setting up Stealth Rock, which may be part of the issue).

There was one match I had earlier today where Conk was really useful for weakening Pex down to a point where it was forced out by my Kartana, letting me get a free SD and sweep the rest of their team. Bulk Up was definitely a useful tool since CC was doing around 50%. and the SpDef drop let Pex kill Conk, giving me a free switch to Kartana.

Dragonite has been a pretty big threat from my experience. EQ variants are really annoying since they also deal a ton of damage to Slowking-G. Still, if Slowking is healthy enough, it can usually take the EQ and KO back with Ice Beam. Dragapult hasn't been too big a problem so far. Even though it can revenge kill everything, it can't reliably switch into anything on the team, so it needs to come in after something has been KO'd or a prediction. Probably the biggest threat to the team from the matches I've had so far is Heatran. The only "reliable" switch-in is Garchomp, but it gets worn down extremely fast by Toxic and Magma Storm. Kartana only does around half and gets KO'd in return. Rillaboom also doesn't OHKO and is only a little bit of chip damage away from being KO'd by Magma Storm. Slowking-G and Volcarona also don't want to face Heatran.

Some additional replays on how the team should be played would be nice. I've won most of the games I've used the team in so far, but there's a lot about the team that I still don't understand, like AV Rillaboom. I've mostly have just been using it as a way to revenge kill fast offensive threats and switch into terrain setters like Tapu Lele, but aside from that I've rarely used it in most games.