Just recently realized Bisharp is somehow OU. I'm kinda surprised by this at theirs so many good OU mons who just beat Bisharp really badly and only a handful it beats itself. Am I missing something that makes it have its B tier placement?
I don't use bisharp a lot, but from what I can tell, defiant is great, and Bisharp is a great abuser of beat up. Sucker punch is a great move, and the steel dark typing gives some useful resistances (ghost, psychic, ice and dark, among others). Knock off is also a great move that bisharp has.Just recently realized Bisharp is somehow OU. I'm kinda surprised by this at theirs so many good OU mons who just beat Bisharp really badly and only a handful it beats itself. Am I missing something that makes it have its B tier placement?
Those are all great traits I think they were a lot better in gen 7 where it wasn't even OU but I'm looking at a lot of the best mons and a ton of them just dumpster Bisharp like Body Press Corviknight, Tank Chomp, Any Buzzwole variant and Melmetal to name a fewI don't use bisharp a lot, but from what I can tell, defiant is great, and Bisharp is a great abuser of beat up. Sucker punch is a great move, and the steel dark typing gives some useful resistances (ghost, psychic, ice and dark, among others). Knock off is also a great move that bisharp has.
True, that's why bisharp is B rank. B rank is defined as " B Rank - Pokemon that are good, but are more specialized, or need more support to work. " Once buiky pokes are removed, Bisharp can destroy teams.Those are all great traits I think they were a lot better in gen 7 where it wasn't even OU but I'm looking at a lot of the best mons and a ton of them just dumpster Bisharp like Body Press Corviknight, Tank Chomp, Any Buzzwole variant and Melmetal to name a few
Bisharp is OU because its SD set is really powerful - it can OHKO Corviknight at +2. Also, Sucker Punch can sometimes win it games it had no right to win in the first place, and Iron Head helps it delete Clefable. Band isn't too bad either with Beat Up.Just recently realized Bisharp is somehow OU. I'm kinda surprised by this at theirs so many good OU mons who just beat Bisharp really badly and only a handful it beats itself. Am I missing something that makes it have its B tier placement?
its sheer power and great offensive typing in conjunction with defiant make it serviceable enough to be ranked at B. ngl i’d reckon it’d be even better if weavile was banned bc then we’d truly get to see what it can do without weavile giving it so much competition for a team slot.Just recently realized Bisharp is somehow OU. I'm kinda surprised by this at theirs so many good OU mons who just beat Bisharp really badly and only a handful it beats itself. Am I missing something that makes it have its B tier placement?
View attachment 428990 C -> C-
is primarina powerful as fuck? yes. does that make her worth slotting onto a team over other waters? no. overall, primarina is incredibly niche and is hopelessly outclassed. being slow af while not actually being bulky enough to reliably take strong hits isn’t exactly helping either. she still hits like a freight train with her specs set, but is generally not worth a slot on a team over other water and fairy types.
can you please exlpain the S- clef placement... i do wonder since clef seemed to fall of a lot latelyThe VR forms of old gens have players post their own rankings while explaining their placements. With SS becoming an old gen this year, I thought it was fitting if I did something similar. (Also cause the thread is a desert rn) I won’t explain every placement, just the ones I find more interesting or aren’t no brainers. I will also be ignoring most of the C tier except for a few I find underrated
S Rank: The Meta Tier
S Rank
Heatran
Landorus-Therian
S- Rank
Clefable
Tornadus-Therian
Weavile
I think people just overhyped lando a bitProbably time to drop Landorus.
Wcop shows more and more that Lando is not necessarily a staple on most teams anymore. Lots of team structures prefer Garchomp, Hippo, Gastrodon or Excadrill now.
Don't understand me wrong, Landorus is still really really good but I don't see it being more outstanding than Heatran, Weavile or even others. I'm not sure how the ladder looks atm but I am pretty sure that it will adapt too and that Lando usage is or will be dropping.
bulu and corviknight are both far too high. and why is scizor lower than necrozma?View attachment 431550
Here’s my rankings. I grouped rain together. None of the tiers are ordered
Still think corv is a good Mon and easily the best defogger in the tier, and bulu is a really unexplored and underappreciated Mon imo. Provides terrain for passive recovery for mons like Melmetal and can check mons like chomp urshifu kart zera rain and can switch into a lot of choiced mons stab making awkward 50 50s. There’s a couple decent sets it can run but the one I’ve been experimenting with is super effective berry variants that lure in mons like zapdos and tornadus. Could’ve put it a tier lower tho I don’t think I meant to put it in A lol.bulu and corviknight are both far too high. and why is scizor lower than necrozma?
Why is torn-t S-? I feel it belongs to the A+. Another thing is I feel vile belongs to the S- and not S because right now teams have overprepared for weavile in the form of clef, melm, buzz and colbur berry slowbro among others. I do not disagree that weavile is great but the fact is that we all have prepared for it (too much tbh).The VR forms of old gens have players post their own rankings while explaining their placements. With SS becoming an old gen this year, I thought it was fitting if I did something similar. (Also cause the thread is a desert rn) I won’t explain every placement, just the ones I find more interesting or aren’t no brainers. I will also be ignoring most of the C tier except for a few I find underrated
S Rank: The Meta Tier
S Rank
Heatran
Landorus-Therian
S- Rank
Clefable
Tornadus-Therian
Weavile
A Rank: The Meta Staples Tier
A+ Rank
Buzzwole
Dragapult
Ferrothorn
Garchomp
Kartana
Melmetal
Slowbro
Tapu Koko
A Rank
Ninetales-Alola
Slowking-Galar
Rotom-Wash
Tapu Lele
Toxapex
Urshifu-R
Volcarona
Zapdos
Zeraora
A- Rank
Blacephalon
Corviknight
Dragonite
Excadrill
Gastrodon
Slowking
Tapu Fini
Volcanion
Zapdos-Galar
B Rank: The Good/Solid & Underrated Tier
B+ Rank
Barraskewda
Hippowdon
Magnezone
Moltres-Galar
Nidoking
Pelipper
Skarmory
Tyranitar
Victini
B Rank
Aegislash
Arctozolt
Bisharp
Blaziken
Blissey
Cloyster
Nihilego
Rillaboom
Seismitoad
B- Rank
Amoonguss
Celesteela
Hawlucha
Hydreigon
Mew
Reuniclus
Scizor
Tangrowth
Terrakion
Thundurus-Therian
Explanations
View attachment 431247S- > S: Tran is easily on the level of Lando in terms of splashability and versatility. In fact it is even better since Tran is one of the hardest threats to switch into in OU. It is incredibly customizable on the BO/Balance builds it fits in effortlessly for any task that is needed to be filled. You never know what Tran could be carrying in Team Preview and that is what makes it the scariest and one of the most versatile metagame threats.
View attachment 431249A- > A: Washtom has been skyrocketing in success and usage in WCOP. A lot of ORAS-esche builds have popped up and it fits perfectly. It is efficient at grabbing momentum and forcing mindgames. Wisp/T-Wave/Toxic just makes it even more difficult to switch into it. Checking Melm, Dnite, Tran, Torn and Volcanion in one slot is invaluable, especially with Melm being more common than ever. This goes without mentioning NP breaker sets which are scary vs Balance/BO builds that rely on Ferro as a check.
View attachment 431250B+ > A-: Gastro Balance teams are commonplace in WCOP and for good reason. It walls a bunch of shit. The tier is going back to Balance builds, which it fits right in. Sticky Hold is good, but Storm Drain extends the list of things it checks. The slug can wall entire teams cause very few things can threaten it without risking a burn or a Toxic.
View attachment 431254A > A-: The waters have been rough for it. Not only competing with the Slowtwins, Wash and Pex, but now Gastro as well. Its issues are more apparent, too easy to overwhelm with hazards, Knock, and the very things it is meant to check. The meta is favoring more durable builds compared to the more aggressive builds it fit in. Whirlpool sets get shit on by Shed Pex and Torn. CM has issues with staying healthy enough to get up a sweep. Still good but it is having trouble differentiating with the other bulky waters.
View attachment 431255B- > B+: Might seem reaching, but if you have been paying attention to WCOP, Hippo has been making a comeback. Balance builds are returning to the forefront with Hippo being Lando but fatter and with the longevity to keep up with Lando’s targets in the long game. Sand being popular thanks to last month’s trends helps matters even more.
View attachment 431257A- > B+: Another victim of metagame shifts. Zone Offense builds are rare since they are inconsistent and lack the longevity to compete with BO/Balance while not being as nuclear as Veil/Rain. It has always had issues with being MU dependent, but its more apparent than ever with more teams implementing one or two more checks to its partners like Kart, Lele, and Fini instead of relying on just Corv/Ferro to do so.
View attachment 431261B- > B+: Skarm has been popping up in big tours for months, but it is seeing use/success on other builds besides the ones with Clef/Pex/Hippo/Reun/Koko. Compared to Ferro, Skarm has the longevity to keep setting up spikes without risking losing half your health. Toxic hits Zap/Wash/Koko while also punishing Torn. It is a better Weav/Kart/Chomp/Ttar check than Corv due to the higher physD. Plus Zone sees less usage so yeah.
View attachment 431262B+ > B: Steel have always been annoying for Zolt but it can always clean them off after they are chipped by hail or raw Bolt Beaks, but now it has to deal with more frequent Gastro builds. Which is a problem since it walls it effortlessly without factoring Hax. It can theoretically just run Freeze Dry to bypass it, but then it misses out on 2HKOs on Buzzwole.
View attachment 431264B+ > B: As a result of Zone Offense builds dying off, Nihi is a victim of its downfall. Suffers from a combination of new and previously existing meta trends like sand making a comeback, Gastro being frequent, the meta getting more durable, and teams stacking multiple checks to it. If you searched the definition for Trendy, you’ll see a picture of Nihi along with an image of Beat Up Weav.
View attachment 431265C- > B-: Idc if this thing gets completely walled by Ferro, you got 5 other members to deal with the cringe durian and you got a decent check/pivot to a good portion of the meta like Koko, Pult, Shifu, Kart, Zera, Clef, etc. Fits well on the rising Clef + Skarm hazard stacking builds that don’t need Ferro’s talents but appreciates Amoon’s talents. Spore is still busted, use Stun Spore and Foul Play together instead of using trash Giga Drain. Spore + Stun Spore forces nice progress. It also has the bulk to live a hit from Melm and pivot out. Eject Button is also great on the Shifu/Koko/Pult that U-Turn on you in the early game. Give it a shot, no way this is worse than shitty Zarude.
View attachment 431266B+ > B-: Sees less use on HO since most Veil teams are running Chomp or Balloon Tran as their rockers now. Demon Mew is also still gimmicky and way too support reliant for something that offers no defensive utility. The rest of its sets are replaceable in their roles. Sorry NP Vaccum Wave.
View attachment 431267C > B-: Terrak is underrated, that is the hill I will die on. OHKOs the common physical walls of the tier after a boost and has the natural bulk to take a hit and get up an SD behind veil. It is great on Veil builds as it deletes Pex, Buzz, Skarm and Bro from the game so that Chomp/Kart/Cloy can go hard. Even without a boost, LO boosted Rock/Fighting stabs from its 129 base Atk still hurt. Rock Polish can also be used so it can sweep on its own. If you have any doubts about it, here are some calcs. Have a good day.
After an SD
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 370-437 (93.9 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 289-341 (86.5 - 102%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 104 Def Landorus-Therian: 308-364 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 455-538 (115.4 - 136.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Buzzwole: 281-331 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 302-356 (99.3 - 117.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 530-624 (148.4 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Without an SD
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 187-220 (47.4 - 55.8%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 105-125 (30.7 - 36.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 253-298 (74.1 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 269-317 (95.7 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Hippowdon: 220-261 (52.3 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 151-179 (49.6 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 168 Def Buzzwole: 142-168 (40 - 47.3%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Edit: Someone wanted me to explain Clef’s placement, so that is what I’ll do.
View attachment 431290A+ > S-: I am not sure where the claim “Clef has fallen off” came from, cause if anything, it is in a better spot than ever in Crown Tundra. It has seen non stop performance in WCOP, including on some of the most frequently used, best performing teams. The meta focuses on using hazards, Knock, and status to force progress, especially with the meta cooling off to a Balance ridden state. The fact that it can absorb these things while providing a shitton of utility establishes itself as a fantastic glue mon amongst tier titans Tran and Lando. Like with Tran, it can be easily customized to do anything the team needs and being impossible to OHKO at high health without Melm or Nidoking, it can get the job done in a pinch. Sets up hazards, Knocks items, spreads Paralysis, Tricks Barb/Scarf, set up CM, heal status, even Healing Wish and Wish have seen appearances. It really can mix n’ match its options. Knock + T-Wave/Trick in particular is egregiously uncomfortable to switch into, forcing progress in the end. Forgoing rocks doesn’t hurt considering the tier isn’t short on strong rockers. Sorry this was a long explanation, but that was the reason I didn’t want to explain it.
Victini in B+ is a crime, Definitely should stay A-, due to the fact that it is a very versatile pokemon that can threaten a lot of teams via its big amounts of coverage and being able to pivot, as well as being able to run will-o-wisp and final gambit to smash through stall. Honestly, Victini is a mon that should not drop to B+, as it definitely fits with the A- or A ranks. Like seriously, you guys are really underrating Victini a tiny bit.View attachment 431550
Here’s my rankings. I grouped rain together. None of the tiers are ordered
torn is busted, dude. it's extremely versatile, fast, and strong, which is further complimented by a colorful movepool filled with tons of useful offensive/utility moves and access to regenerator. it's easily the best defogger in the tier and a top 10 mon.Why is torn-t S-? I feel it belongs to the A+. Another thing is I feel vile belongs to the S- and not S because right now teams have overprepared for weavile in the form of clef, melm, buzz and colbur berry slowbro among others. I do not disagree that weavile is great but the fact is that we all have prepared for it (too much tbh).
I can't tell if you're trolling.tapu koko is not very good. idk why it is better than stuff like tapu lele cause tapu lele does so much damage and almost nothing can counter it. tapu koko does like no damage it is only good with alolan raichu so alolan raichu should be higher than it.
Tapu koko is not a great mon. It is better than a-raichu, but it does not deserve A+, maybe A- would be better for it. A+ is a tier with chomp, melmetal, pult, and kart. I just dont think koko is as good as those pokemon, and fini and lele are def better than them.I can't tell if you're trolling.
fine ill answer
Tapu koko is a great mon because it has lots of utility options and a great typing. It has roost,defog, great speed, pretty good strength, and great pivoting options. It's a great mon, and DEFINITELY not lower than alolachu
You've got to be trolling.