Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #2753)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would it not just destroy it with pyro ball?

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 64 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Heya. And then it will run 0 bulk so this calc is technically incorrect. It will run 0 HP/0 Def but yes Cinderace destroys it. Just a correction because Zama almost doesn't runs bulk besides defensive sets that aren't so good and add Bulk Up Cinderace on top of that. And also Adamant Zama doesn't outspeed Jolly Cinderace. So bassicaly Cinderace destroys Zama indeed. Especially Adamant, if it's gonna be retest then Zama's presence helps Cinderace
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but would it not just destroy it with pyro ball?

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 64 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The damage calculation you are using is flawed, because Dauntless Shield is bugged on the calc. The true damage calculation:

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 64 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 176-210 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Assuming that Zamazenta-C ends up running 64 HP EVs in an OU metagame)

Remember when making calcs with Zamazenta-C always add +1 defense to it.
 
The damage calculation you are using is flawed, because Dauntless Shield is bugged on the calc. The true damage calculation:

252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 64 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 176-210 (51.6 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Assuming that Zamazenta-C ends up running 64 HP EVs in an OU metagame)

Remember when making calcs with Zamazenta-C always add +1 defense to it.
TIL thank you :)


252 Atk Cinderace Pyro Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zamazenta-Crowned: 134-162 (34.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
if its fully defensive ^ btw
 
Nothing is taken out of context. Sand teams are inherently weak to hrass types , hence you're supposed to carry those. Also , Rillaboom doesn't force you to run "multiple grass resists" , Corv+tang core exists as Tang doubles as a water resist , Skarm+Corv isn't used.

Your previous arguments were just vauge like Rilla beats exca , rilla beats hippo , I mean they aren't supposed to check or counter rillaboom to begin with. Also , sand teams are almost always formulaic , they were the same in previous gens too.

Lastly , the point was Rillaboom and Kart both being grass types , they weren't compared by their roles , you just started comparing them individually versus certain mons rather than understanding what was being conveyed by the message , banning rillaboom won't give sand teams freedom to run no grass resists because things like Kart would still exist.
There has never been a grass type as fast and as powerful as Rillaboom in OU since perhaps Gen 5 Venu (that was situational as well). And yeah Corv + Tang and Corv + Buzz is basically the only two available cores in Gen 8 sand team that you're forced to run because of Boom. With Kartana it doesnt have nearly the breaking power of Rillaboom unless it's Band in which it has not near the speed of Boom.

Without Boom you could run one of the above and get a actual good extra mon on the team not also dedicated to Boom.

Also if you run the aforementioned cores you basically need to run T-Tar or you lose to Fire types (Hippo is the much better sand setter in my opinion)

Rilla and Kart only have being an offensive grass type in common but have completely different roles and you wouldn't have to dedicate nearly as much to Kart as you do to Rilla because of its extremely powerful priority which no other mon has an equal too in the history of OU.
 

Gomi

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There has never been a grass type as fast and as powerful as Rillaboom in OU since perhaps Gen 5 Venu (that was situational as well). And yeah Corv + Tang and Corv + Buzz is basically the only two available cores in Gen 8 sand team that you're forced to run because of Boom. With Kartana it doesnt have nearly the breaking power of Rillaboom unless it's Band in which it has not near the speed of Boom. (?????)

Without Boom you could run one of the above and get a actual good extra mon on the team not also dedicated to Boom.

Also if you run the aforementioned cores you basically need to run T-Tar or you lose to Fire types (Hippo is the much better sand setter in my opinion)

Rilla and Kart only have being an offensive grass type in common but have completely different roles and you wouldn't have to dedicate nearly as much to Kart as you do to Rilla because of its extremely powerful priority which no other mon has an equal too in the history of OU.
alot of is just flat out incorrect and the fact you're trying so hard still to argue that Rillaboom is somehow impossible for sand to handle to such an extent that you need 2 counters and offensive checks to even remotely handle it is downright laughable. I genuinely do not understand how you can make the statement Rillaboom is a better breaker than Kartana with a straight face unless you've only ever faced scarf in your entire life, corv doesn't even handle Kart
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 244-289 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
even assuming they're the rare body press
168+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 124-146 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
If you need Buzzwole of all mons, the absolute biggest momentum killer around, on dual abuser sand because you can't exert enough pressure to limit Rilla, on top of Corviknight and whatever else you have on your build, I just don't know what to say.

first sentence also doesn't make a lick of sense lol, completely incomparable mons in any capacity but u wanna complain about comparing Kart to Rilla when they're both physical grass types that use CB and SD sets to break apart teams and abuse their speed/prio, bulk, and solid typings for a good amount of oppurtunities to dish out damage
 
alot of is just flat out incorrect and the fact you're trying so hard still to argue that Rillaboom is somehow impossible for sand to handle to such an extent that you need 2 counters and offensive checks to even remotely handle it is downright laughable. I genuinely do not understand how you can make the statement Rillaboom is a better breaker than Kartana with a straight face unless you've only ever faced scarf in your entire life, corv doesn't even handle Kart
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 244-289 (61 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
even assuming they're the rare body press
168+ Def Corviknight Body Press vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 124-146 (47.8 - 56.3%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO
If you need Buzzwole of all mons, the absolute biggest momentum killer around, on dual abuser sand because you can't exert enough pressure to limit Rilla, on top of Corviknight and whatever else you have on your build, I just don't know what to say.

first sentence also doesn't make a lick of sense lol, completely incomparable mons in any capacity but u wanna complain about comparing Kart to Rilla when they're both physical grass types that use CB and SD sets to break apart teams and abuse their speed/prio, bulk, and solid typings for a good amount of oppurtunities to dish out damage
What I'm saying about Kart is that it either has the breaking power or the speed of Boom but it never has either. Band can break Corv but Zolt and Drill beat it due to sand Rush. Corv + both them beat Scarf in the sand.

Sorry about the bad explanations I've been typing everything in my 10-15 minute breaks at work.

I will say it might just be a me problem as I'm sure every person has that one mon they struggle with. I guess for me that's just Boom and I can't figure out how to crack or beat it much like others have problems with Chomp or Torn or Kyurem and stuff. Mine is Boom.
 
There has never been a grass type as fast and as powerful as Rillaboom in OU since perhaps Gen 5 Venu (that was situational as well). And yeah Corv + Tang and Corv + Buzz is basically the only two available cores in Gen 8 sand team that you're forced to run because of Boom. With Kartana it doesnt have nearly the breaking power of Rillaboom unless it's Band in which it has not near the speed of Boom.

Without Boom you could run one of the above and get a actual good extra mon on the team not also dedicated to Boom.

Also if you run the aforementioned cores you basically need to run T-Tar or you lose to Fire types (Hippo is the much better sand setter in my opinion)

Rilla and Kart only have being an offensive grass type in common but have completely different roles and you wouldn't have to dedicate nearly as much to Kart as you do to Rilla because of its extremely powerful priority which no other mon has an equal too in the history of OU.
I don't think you run Corvi+Tang or Corv+Buzz (being Buzz an absolute thrash in every meta outside of Zygarde, KyuB, Urshifu meta) JUST for Rillaboom, you run them because they provides a lot of role compression for an archetype that is usually constrained on what it can run to make it functional. You run Tang because sand teams are steamrolled by Ground, Water and Grass-types, which are 3 types that Tang can check, and you used Buzz because gave the team a counter to Urshifu, a solid blanket check to many physical attackers, good defensive synergy with Tyranitar, and possible a win-con if running BU. It has been the same since gens because sand teams are very linear on their composition...you need to run an actual Water resist and a Ground-immunity at least to compensate the stacking weaknesses of the archetype, and the mons that actually can be used are a handful. This may be exacerbated with Rilla, but you needed Grass-type answers from the beginning of building a sand team, so...it feels like an overexageration for me, with respect of course.

On the topic of Rillaboom, i don't think it is broken but i'm on the fence about its impact on the tier. It centralizes the meta and you have to account it when building if you want to make a viable team. It has many checks, but it can cripple them and can beat on long term or with team support like Zone for metal birbs. However, this is similar to what happens with Tornadus-T and Dragapult, and not many consider them unhealthy for the meta, so i don't know.
 
What I'm saying about Kart is that it either has the breaking power or the speed of Boom but it never has either. Band can break Corv but Zolt and Drill beat it due to sand Rush. Corv + both them beat Scarf in the sand.

Sorry about the bad explanations I've been typing everything in my 10-15 minute breaks at work.

I will say it might just be a me problem as I'm sure every person has that one mon they struggle with. I guess for me that's just Boom and I can't figure out how to crack or beat it much like others have problems with Chomp or Torn or Kyurem and stuff. Mine is Boom.
Kartana has far more breaking power than rilla, although sand might have more trouble with rillaboom, it doesnt make it broken and banworthy. Every playstyle has checks counteres and strengths and it isnt unusual to have to run mons to fill holes. In my opinion, rillaboom doesn't restrict building it's just another thing you have to prepare for. If you dont have anything to deal with it, then you're obviously gonna lose to it. Kyurem, Dragapult, Heatran are all other mons that although sand doesnt struggle with too badly, are still things people need to consider on other archetypes to stop them wrecking a team, rillaboom isnt broken or team restricting, it's just good against sand and some other playstyles, while also having common checks.
 
On the topic of sand, I don't really find Rillaboom that problematic at all. Even Ash Greninja was a bigger pain in the ass for sand last gen. Maybe it's just me being satisfied at the mid ladder or something but on my sand team, I always have one Rilla check and one counter, metal bird being the counter and Lele being the check

That being said, Rilla's overreliance on its terrain is one of the reason why I don't think it is broken. You can blow it away with defog or replace it with your own terrain with carefully timed double switches, not to mention grass is somewhat easy to exploit as a typing. Sand is also an incredibly versatile play style, unlike rain where you have to use Ferrothorn otherwise don't use rain in the first place. Just a sand summoner, abuser and an answer to Rillaboom, which you can choose among like, five very good mons, and that's good enough. The other team slots are basically whatever you want

I really cannot get behind on Rilla having such an effect on the tier that you need to account for it when building a team, it has to be banned. I mean, Garchomp, Dragapult and Heatran among others are all waving at you at this point
 

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I hate to get in the middle of this, but hasn't this Rillaboom conversation went way to far by now? Idk, I just thought we weren't supposed to stick to one topic for a long period of time. Correct me if I am wrong.
We have stepped in multiple times and monitored less reasonable posts, but people can continue to discuss anything they would like so long as they are informed, civil, and making coherent arguments. We try not to limit those who wish to positively contribute unless there are very specific circumstances.
 
Well, to take some attention off of Rillaboom, here's another great mon that uses priority

:scizor: Scizor :scizor:


Scizor's always been a favorite of mine, so I was happy to see its viability skyrocket after the Cinderace ban. Its a great sweeper/breaker with an excellent base 130 attack and access to a powerful priority move in stab bullet punch as well as a quad resist to grass, allowing it to check rillaboom. Scizor's secret ingredient, however is its physical bulk and access to roost. This allows it to eat physical attacks on a switch and pick off weakened foes with bullet punch, or take a hit while setting up. The damage can then be healed of with roost. Its access to priority means you don't have to worry about investing in speed, and can instead invest in bulk.

Scizor @ Metal Coat
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Technician+Metal Coat get bullet punch up to 72 bp. Not quite grassy glide, but still very good. Scizor's aforementioned bulk allows it to set up SD, then click bullet punch on any non-steel resists. Superpower allows it to break things like ferrothorn, while roost lets it stay healthy and keep it going. At +2, bullet punch rips holes in teams, and its priority makes scizor very hard to revenge kill. Scizor is an overall great offensive threat in the meta, with some solid defensive utility.
 
With the most recent bans of Magearna and Cinderace, it would be fair to say that Ice types in OU have become noticeably better. Without Magearna and Cinderace in the tier to pivot in and threaten Ice types out, Ice mons are actually in a pretty good position in the tier. In the most recent tier shifts on the Viability Rankings, this can be seen with the increases in rank for Weavile, Actozolt, Cloyster, and, most prominently, Kyurem. Other Ice types in the Viability Rankings can be considered to be better in the metagame as well; Alolan-Ninetails can set up Aurora Viel without needing to worry about Magearna or Cinderace switching in and exerting pressure, and Mamoswine seems to appreciate recent meta trends, such as the increase in usage for steel types to check Kyurem and Slowking starting to be preferred over Slowbro. Overall, it would be accurate to state that the majority of ranked Ice types, if not all of them, have benefitted from the bans of Magearna and Cinderace.

But what about unranked Ice types? With the bans of Magearna and Cinderace, is it possible that Ice types previously seen as unviable could now thrive, or at least survive, in the OU Metagame? After searching through Ice mons and theorymonning for a while, I soon became disappointed in my results.
1617983561799.png
Avalugg has impressive bulk on paper, with 95 base hp and 184 base def. However, its garbage defensive typing of mono-Ice means it cannot really function all that great as a wall. Banded Rillaboom has a 30% chance to 2HKO Avalugg if it uses Wood Hammer on the switch, even through Grassy Terrain recovery. Avalugg is also dependent on Heavy-Duty Boots to avoid taking huge chip from hazards, but there are way too many situations where Avalugg would want to switch into mons that can utilize Knock Off, so Avalugg would still be taking considerable hazard damage throughout a match. While Avalugg has seen OU usage in past generations due to having a niche on hardcore stall teams, this is not the case for Gen 8 OU, in which case it is a terrible mon.
1617983924185.png
Frosmoth is cool until you realize it's just Volcarona, except it gets walled by all steel types instead of just Heatran.
1617983975282.png
Arcticuno has seen usage in OU in past generations due to its niche on hardcore stall teams. With Pressure, it could run a SubRoost set and proceed to PP-stall decently enough, while also possessing other utility such as Defog. It is possible that a similar set could be applied to Gen 8 OU, but I am unable to think of a reason to use this over other options for stall teams.
1617984484049.png
Froslass is honestly one of the more promising mons in the list. It has a surprisingly wide array of utility moves as its disposal, being able to learn Taunt, Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Switcheroo/Trick, and most importantly, Spikes. With a respectable base 110 speed stat, it is able to outspeed non-Scarfed Landorus-T and Garchomp and proceed to force them out, though Froslass will need to either be switched in at the same time or pivoted in via Teleport/U-Turn/Volt Switch. Frosslass would then be able to set up a layer of Spikes or status the switch-in. Steel type checks to Ice mons, such as Scizor and Melmetal, risk being crippled by Will-o-Wisp, whereas more passive answers, such as Blissey, are unable to really do too much to Froslass. Overall, Froslass actually looks like a cool mon that can be utilized on more offensive teams, I am definitely looking forward to experimenting with it.

There is one particular special snowflake that I have been using lately, and it has been performing surprisingly decent.
1617985281191.png

Cryogonal @ Heavy-Duty Boots/Never-Melt Ice
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Knock Off

Cryogonal is pretty much the very definition of niche in OU, but with the way current meta trends have been going, it can actually perform rather well if given the chance. What makes Cryogonal notable are its 105 base spd and Levitate. With how prominent Landorus-T and Garchomp are in the current metagame, Cryogonal being able to outspeed non-Scarfed Landorus-T and Garchomp while also being able to safely switch in on Landorus-T's Stealth Rock or Earthquake and Garchomp's Swords Dance or Earthquake is a very useful thing to have. With an unexpectedly great special bulk of 80 base hp and 135 base sp.def, Cryogonal can also function as a viable check to mons such as Dragapult, Kyurem, Tornadus-T, Tapu Fini, Nidoking, Slowking, and Slowbro. Against the expected Steel type switch ins, Cryogonal admittedly cannot make too much progress against, though having Knock Off can at least weaken common switch ins, such as Heatran, Melmetal, and Scizor. 232 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Garchomp. Never-Melt Ice can be used to give Cryogonal the extra firepower to Ice Beam and Freeze Dry to break through certain matchups and ensure OHKO's, though Heavy-Duty Boots has a much better time switching in and checking opposing special attackers. For those wondering why Defog/Rapid Spin is not being utilized in this set, while it is true Cryogonal can force out rockers such as defensive Landorus-T and defensive Garchomp, it still loses to many other rockers, such as Heatran and Ferrothorn, so that Defog/Rapid Spin is not as good as an option as something like Knock Off. All things considered, I am surprisingly pleased by how Cryogonal has been functioning, and I look forward to using it more in the meta.

It should be fairly obvious that Cryogonal can OHKO Landorus-T and Garchomp with Freeze Dry.

252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 204-241 (67.7 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 300-354 (94.6 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Cryogonal can switch in on Specs Shadow Ball and either eat another Shadow Ball and OHKO Dragapult in return, or force Dragapult out. While it cannot stomach two Draco Meteors, having a defensive Fairy type on the team (e.g. Clefable) can deter the opponent into choosing that option. If Dragapult switches in as the player's own mon pivots out via Teleport/U-Turn/etc, Cryogonal at full HP can beat Dragapult. Cryogonal has a much easier time dealing with Scarf Dragapult.

252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem: 129-153 (32.9 - 39.1%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 332-392 (108.1 - 127.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 270-318 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Ice Beam vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 93-111 (30.2 - 36.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
At full hp, Cryogonal can switch in against Specs Kyurem's Ice Beam/Freeze Dry and proceed to beat it thanks to Cryogonal's Recover and own Ice Beam. Cryogonal is also notably immune to Earth Power. While it gets thrashed by Draco Meteor and Focus Blast, these can be accounted for by having a Fairy type on the team to deter the opponent into choosing those options. Cryogonal can also go for Knock Off to either reduce Kyurem's power significantly or cripple the switch in.

252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 300-354 (99 - 116.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 192-229 (62.5 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 153-181 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
Cryogonal can switch into Nidoking and either force it out or OHKO it in return. If switching into Earth Power, Cryogonal can go for Knock Off and cripple any potential switch in while not fearing a KO from Nidoking in return. Still need to look out for the rarer Superpower variants.

0- Atk Tornadus-Therian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Cryogonal: 109-129 (35.5 - 42%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 100-118 (32.5 - 38.4%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 260-308 (71.8 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cryogonal can switch in onto bulky Tornadus-T builds, Recover, and proceed to beat it or force it out. Cryogonal gets OHKO'd by +2 Focus Blast from Nasty Plot builds, so it is not a sufficient check to Nasty Plot Tornadus-T.

252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 102-120 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 7.5% chance to 3HKO after Steelsurge and Leftovers recovery
+1 0 SpA Tapu Fini Draining Kiss vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 60-72 (19.5 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
+1 0 SpA Tapu Fini Scald vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 96-114 (31.2 - 37.1%) -- 77% chance to 3HKO
One of these matchups where Never-Melt Ice helps. Heavy-Duty Boots Cryogonal can break through non-Calm Mind Tapu Fini builds pretty easily, though would need prior chip on Calm Mind Tapu Fini to muscle through it.


0- Atk Cryogonal Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 88-104 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- 10.1% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Never-Melt Ice Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 152-180 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 126-150 (31.9 - 38%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO
0 SpA Slowking Flamethrower vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Cryogonal: 102-120 (33.2 - 39%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
Another matchup where Never-Melt Ice is helpful, considering how much Slowking likes proccing Regenerator. Slowking cannot do much against Cryogonal besides setting up Future Sight and pivoting out with Teleport. In this process, Slowking loses Heavy-Duty Boots or loses ~37% hp after accounting for Regenerator.

252 SpA Cryogonal Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Same deal as Slowking, except much easier to break through with Freeze Dry.
 
While were on the topic of Ice-types what do people think of Arctozolt:Arctozolt:? I'm going, to be honest I thought it was complete dogshit so the rise on the viability rankings really surprised me. I never even seen anyone discuss Arctozolt in the viability ranking thread but apparently, it's good on hail which I didn't even know was a viable niche.IDK I just don't understand the point in using Arctozolt or Hail-centered teams in general. At best I'm only gonna use Hail for aurora viel and that's it but maybe there's more to Arctozolt even if on paper it needs a lot of support to even be a threat.It's not I'd know cause I have no idea how to build a team around arctozolt besides slapping a alolan ninetales on the team lol
 
While were on the topic of Ice-types what do people think of Arctozolt:Arctozolt:? I'm going, to be honest I thought it was complete dogshit so the rise on the viability rankings really surprised me. I never even seen anyone discuss Arctozolt in the viability ranking thread but apparently, it's good on hail which I didn't even know was a viable niche.IDK I just don't understand the point in using Arctozolt or Hail-centered teams in general. At best I'm only gonna use Hail for aurora viel and that's it but maybe there's more to Arctozolt even if on paper it needs a lot of support to even be a threat.It's not I'd know cause I have no idea how to build a team around arctozolt besides slapping a alolan ninetales on the team lol
Arctozolt is an incredibly strong breaker under hail thanks to bolt beak's power + ice type coverage in icicle crash or freeze dry. Low kick rounds out its coverage allowing it to take out targets like ferrothorn and ttar. Slush rush also allows it to destroy offence. With boots it doesn't need to care about rocks and with sub it doesn't need to predict. All of these traits combine to produce an excellent offensive pokemon on hail teams.
As for a team using arctozolt, I'd recommend checking out this team made by Pinkacross that hit #1 on the ladder.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ft-alolan-sandslash-alolan-ninetales.3681004/
 
While were on the topic of Ice-types what do people think of Arctozolt:Arctozolt:? I'm going, to be honest I thought it was complete dogshit so the rise on the viability rankings really surprised me. I never even seen anyone discuss Arctozolt in the viability ranking thread but apparently, it's good on hail which I didn't even know was a viable niche.IDK I just don't understand the point in using Arctozolt or Hail-centered teams in general.
I mean for reference, C rank is mostly composed of mons that only do well within fringe archetypes.
Trick room
and
sun
are good examples.
 
Alright, can someone explain this to me. Suspect tests are about trying a pokemon on the ladder right? If Zama is the one we are testing this time, why is it illegal when trying to make an ou team? Am I missing something here? I thought this was gonna be a couple weeks with Zama being available and on the last day we decide if it stays for good or not
 

AM

GMT-4
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Alright, can someone explain this to me. Suspect tests are about trying a pokemon on the ladder right? If Zama is the one we are testing this time, why is it illegal when trying to make an ou team? Am I missing something here? I thought this was gonna be a couple weeks with Zama being available and on the last day we decide if it stays for good or not
Ladder probably hasn't updated yet. That is all.
 

Finchinator

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For clarity purposes, this thread is not the Zama-C test thread and the whole point of that thread being locked for a day is to give people time to play and decide upon their opinions. This thread should not be used as a shortcut to surpass that lock in the meantime.
 
View attachment 330990

Also RIP Weavile's viability lol
Even if Zama-C gets unbanned, I doubt Weavile will lose all its viability. That isn’t to say of course that it won’t take a hit from having such a hard counter suddenly getting introduced to the tier, but part of the reason Weavile is so good right now is its matchup vs Pokémon like Torn-T, Chomp, Lando-T, and lots of others which I don’t think get dramatically worse with Zama-C in the tier.
 

Finchinator

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Moderator
Shouldn’t have to delete a half dozen posts about Zama-C when my post earlier made it explicitly clear that this thread is not for ZamaC discussion and the suspect thread will be open after 24h. This is the always the case and for something so new, circumventing the 24h rule isn’t ok. Any future posts are just going to be infracted at this point — it’s been made clear multiple times and people just don’t listen.
 
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