Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

With so many mons running boots, I don't see why hazardless teams won't be a thing in the near future. Not only do you open up a move slot on your own team but you also most likely take away a slot from your opponent since Defog is almost as mandatory as Stealth Rock
 
With so many mons running boots, I don't see why hazardless teams won't be a thing in the near future. Not only do you open up a move slot on your own team but you also most likely take away a slot from your opponent since Defog is almost as mandatory as Stealth Rock
Rocks are still 100% needed to break focus sashes and limit non-boots Pokemon, which otherwise can just use Leftovers without consequence (eg: both lefties and boots are considered viable on Dragapult).
 
Rocks are still 100% needed to break focus sashes and limit non-boots Pokemon, which otherwise can just use Leftovers without consequence (eg: both lefties and boots are considered viable on Dragapult).
These teams would be used among other teams that carry Rocks so there's still a reason to use boots.

Also, there are other methods of breaking sash without entry hazards such as Fake out which can use up the free slot opened up by not using Stealth Rock and works well when you realize most sash users are leads

pkmnthebest

Knock Off is definitely an option but the problem with Knock Off is that it's very bait dependant and your not often gonna be able to bait out the Mon who's Boots you want to knock off. For instance, You're never gonna Knock off a Volcorona's Boots with a Tornadus
 
I think the number of teams that would opt out of running Rocks will be very few, though there would probably be games where setting up Rocks wouldn't be as much of a priority as in other games. Knock Off may not always be reliable, but given its general lack of drawbacks it is easy to slot into virtually any mon that learns it, if not 2 on a single team. Additionally running Rocks can provide a huge advantage if the opponent wants to run a different item than boots on their rock weak mon. Yes it's definitely possible that a team could be successful without it but a) it would be an exception, not a major archetype and b) the player would need to make tangible and intentional use of the team restrictions freed up by not running Rocks.
 
With so many mons running boots, I don't see why hazardless teams won't be a thing in the near future. Not only do you open up a move slot on your own team but you also most likely take away a slot from your opponent since Defog is almost as mandatory as Stealth Rock
I think hazardless (and honestly, hazardremovalless) teams are not something you sit down to make, its something that comes out of your natural building process.
 
Honestly, I feel a slowtwins ban is deserved.
This may be an unpopular opinion but let me explain,

The Combination of Future Sight + Teleport + Regenerator makes the slowtwins amazing picks to compliment breakers to have no trouble getting them in and causing huge impact. Teleport is guaranteed momentum and has 0 drawbacks. Heavy duty boots further enhances the difficulty in breaking these. Although there are checks, a good predicted teleport or a swap into a check for that given pokemon can lead to amazing outcomes and they force so many swaps, and also check many Pokemon defensively while having all this utility. They have reliable recovery and scald, which is an amazing move to shut down physical attackers with a burn.

Future sight is an amazing move, a 120bp stab move with 0 drawbacks that acts on the same turn as an attacker after a teleport is far too overpowering in my opinion, pokemon that would usually check mons defensively no longer can beca use of this absurd move, it either forces out resists which can be taken advantage of or just leaves a mon to die, high is very hard to punish given the amount it checks and how easy it is to get up.

Teleport is, too good. A negative priority momentum move with 0 drawbacks acts perfectly with its set. Being able to capitalise so easily on the future sight is again, far too overpowering. Allowing things to be able to break checks while having an amazing pokemon with it is incredibly unhealthy. It is impossible to punish and leaves the player risk free. Being able to teleport with such a fat mon and bring in another mon to abuse the future sight the leave the opponent to find a swap in that’s probably non-existent.

Regenerator is, the best defensive ability. 33% Health regen on a fat mon with a risk free momentum move? This makes the slowtwins incredibly hard to break added to all the utility I discussed above. Not even just on slowtwins, regenerator mons have proven to be extremely difficult to wear down, pair this with future sight, teleport, boots, reliable recovery and scald makes these a beast of a defensive mon that just allows offensive mons to go wild.

Feel free to agree or disagree but I honestly feel they are very unhealthy for the tier.
 
Honestly, I feel a slowtwins ban is deserved.
This may be an unpopular opinion but let me explain,

The Combination of Future Sight + Teleport + Regenerator makes the slowtwins amazing picks to compliment breakers to have no trouble getting them in and causing huge impact. Teleport is guaranteed momentum and has 0 drawbacks. Heavy duty boots further enhances the difficulty in breaking these. Although there are checks, a good predicted teleport or a swap into a check for that given pokemon can lead to amazing outcomes and they force so many swaps, and also check many Pokemon defensively while having all this utility. They have reliable recovery and scald, which is an amazing move to shut down physical attackers with a burn.

Future sight is an amazing move, a 120bp stab move with 0 drawbacks that acts on the same turn as an attacker after a teleport is far too overpowering in my opinion, pokemon that would usually check mons defensively no longer can beca use of this absurd move, it either forces out resists which can be taken advantage of or just leaves a mon to die, high is very hard to punish given the amount it checks and how easy it is to get up.

Teleport is, too good. A negative priority momentum move with 0 drawbacks acts perfectly with its set. Being able to capitalise so easily on the future sight is again, far too overpowering. Allowing things to be able to break checks while having an amazing pokemon with it is incredibly unhealthy. It is impossible to punish and leaves the player risk free. Being able to teleport with such a fat mon and bring in another mon to abuse the future sight the leave the opponent to find a swap in that’s probably non-existent.

Regenerator is, the best defensive ability. 33% Health regen on a fat mon with a risk free momentum move? This makes the slowtwins incredibly hard to break added to all the utility I discussed above. Not even just on slowtwins, regenerator mons have proven to be extremely difficult to wear down, pair this with future sight, teleport, boots, reliable recovery and scald makes these a beast of a defensive mon that just allows offensive mons to go wild.

Feel free to agree or disagree but I honestly feel they are very unhealthy for the tier.
My opinion is that the problem isn't the mon. It's Teleport. Teleport is way silly of a move, its basically drypass but better. WishPass would be extremely difficult to time and use to great effect if wasn't because of Teleport. Same goes for Future Sight, another thing that I realize is that Zama, the current suspected mon abuses this too well, if we ban Teleport, may Zama isn't that bad at all because the 2 best way to support it (WishPass and Futureport) aren't that good without Teleport, the nature of Teleport as a move is way too good for defensive mons and offensive mons love entering the field safely, for me any pivoting move gets busted with Regenerator healing, the problem with Teleport is that it also befenits the offensive mon coming in. I think that the current unhealthy thing may be Teleport, not slowtwins, not Clef and even not Zama, also Boots make this shit even more unhealthy, meaning that the defensive mon using Teleport will not be worn down by hazards, overall I prefer a Teleport Ban than a Slowking/Slowbro Ban. But this could affect the lower tiers which is not that good
Anyways that's my opinion. I could be wrong tho
 
My opinion is that the problem isn't the mon. It's Teleport. Teleport is way silly of a move, its basically drypass but better. WishPass would be extremely difficult to time and use to great effect if wasn't because of Teleport. Same goes for Future Sight, another thing that I realize is that Zama, the current suspected mon abuses this too well, if we ban Teleport, may Zama isn't that bad at all because the 2 best way to support it (WishPass and Futureport) aren't that good without Teleport, the nature of Teleport as a move is way too good for defensive mons and offensive mons love entering the field safely, for me any pivoting move gets busted with Regenerator healing, the problem with Teleport is that it also befenits the offensive mon coming in. I think that the current unhealthy thing may be Teleport, not slowtwins, not Clef and even not Zama, also Boots make this shit even more unhealthy, meaning that the defensive mon using Teleport will not be worn down by hazards, overall I prefer a Teleport Ban than a Slowking/Slowbro Ban. But this could affect the lower tiers which is not that good
Anyways that's my opinion. I could be wrong tho
Problem with banning teleport is that, the move isn’t broken. It’s broken with other moves which is the problem, if teleport was broken, then wouldn’t all other pivot moves be broken, (ik teleport has the no risk negative priority) teleport isn’t banworthy as a move is what I’m tryna say. It’s banworthy with these other moves, that are all banworthy with each other but not alone, which is why I believe a twins ban would be better. On your zama point, nothing is ever banned for something to be unbanned, overall you can’t really ban a move that isn’t broken, because it’s broken with other moves, that’s why I’m more leaning towards a twins ban.
 
The problem its the COMBINATION OF INSANE POWERFULL WALLBRAKERS AND DEFENSIVE MONS WITH INSANITY UTILITY. Slowking wasn't a problem in RU and UU before it raised to OU but the fact that this tier is full of the best wallbreakers in the game makes easier for this problem to get bigger.
Its more complex than people are thinking, banning the wallbreakers is always the first thing that comes in mind (see what all the previous banned pokemons have in common) but banning defensive/utility mons needs always a big push since they act differently from what we always had to deal (mega Sableye in gen6, Pex on 7(not banned but extremally controversial)). Those mons are the glue that holds the tier and we can say that right know, no others aren't doing that better then SlowBros.
Future Sight isn't broken, Teleport isn't and Regenerator isn't too (a lot of players will heavily disagree here), Slowbro and Slowking are the only ones that can use those abilities together but are those mons broken, are they making other mons broken, are they being make broken by other mons or are the state of the metagame that allows those abilities when combine to other factors become broken?
The council and the community really needs to evaluate this with careful, i would say that banning the twins would be the best way of fixing the problem, but Cindarece, Spectrier and Ushifu should receive a retest since there bans was influenced by Future Sight (a.k.a Slowbro).
We can always wait, but this problem has been out for more than a year and every time the meta settles those factor become broken again.
 
The problem its the COMBINATION OF INSANE POWERFULL WALLBRAKERS AND DEFENSIVE MONS WITH INSANITY UTILITY. Slowking wasn't a problem in RU and UU before it raised to OU but the fact that this tier is full of the best wallbreakers in the game makes easier for this problem to get bigger.
Its more complex than people are thinking, banning the wallbreakers is always the first thing that comes in mind (see what all the previous banned pokemons have in common) but banning defensive/utility mons needs always a big push since they act differently from what we always had to deal (mega Sableye in gen6, Pex on 7(not banned but extremally controversial)). Those mons are the glue that holds the tier and we can say that right know, no others aren't doing that better then SlowBros.
Future Sight isn't broken, Teleport isn't and Regenerator isn't too (a lot of players will heavily disagree here), Slowbro and Slowking are the only ones that can use those abilities together but are those mons broken, are they making other mons broken, are they being make broken by other mons or are the state of the metagame that allows those abilities when combine to other factors become broken?
The council and the community really needs to evaluate this with careful, i would say that banning the twins would be the best way of fixing the problem, but Cindarece, Spectrier and Ushifu should receive a retest since there bans was influenced by Future Sight (a.k.a Slowbro).
We can always wait, but this problem has been out for more than a year and every time the meta settles those factor become broken again.
I do agree, my entire point was the things alone arnt broken, but combined they are. I could defo see a fsightless cinderace unban (not keen on spect or urshi tho) but this shouldn’t be a reason to ban them nonetheless. Broken mons typically are offensive powerhouses and people rarely focus on the defensive backbones allowing these “broken” mons to shine. Nothing that slowking has is broken by itself, but it’s the combination that makes it banworthy imo.
 
I'd like to make something clear regarding FS, teleport and regenerator. If you wish to ban a single one of them you won't succeed, bc there are users of each of those abilities/moves that are not broken. There are also users of combinations of those abilities/moves that are not broken.

FS + Teleport - Alakazam, xatu, gardevoir
FS + Regenerator - Galar slowtwins, reuniclus

Teleport + regenerator however, is unique to slowking, slowbro and slowpoke. I believe it is worth looking into a suspect test for teleport + regenerator bc of how obviously centralising its affect on OU is. Such a ban would not affect lower tiers either, since the slowtwins are both in OU already, and LC has its own ruleset and banlist.

Talk of banning FS, teleport, regenerator or any combination of them besides teleport + regenerator is, in my opinion, misguided and realistically a suspect for those things would not happen bc of the fact that there are users of those abilites/moves that are not broken.

I understand that I have given very little reasoning behind this suggestion for a teleport + regenerator ban, but ppl have expressed my exact thoughts on this thread multiple times over the past few months, so it seems pointless to repeat them.

Edit: You could also argue that Teleport + future sight + regenerator is what's actually broken. And tbh I don't think I could argue with that. The only problem I can see with that is 'complex bans bad'. But the main purpose of this post was to clarify that the individual moves/abilities and some combinations of them are not broken and it's not worth discussing a potential ban for them.
 
Last edited:
I'd like to make something clear regarding FS, teleport and regenerator. If you wish to ban a single one of them you won't succeed, bc there are users of each of those abilities/moves that are not broken. There are also users of combinations of those abilities/moves that are not broken.

FS + Teleport - Alakazam, xatu, gardevoir
FS + Regenerator - Galar slowtwins, reuniclus

Teleport + regenerator however, is unique to slowking, slowbro and slowpoke. I believe it is worth looking into a suspect test for teleport + regenerator bc of how obviously centralising its affect on OU is. Such a ban would not affect lower tiers either, since the slowtwins are both in OU already, and LC has its own ruleset and banlist.

Talk of banning FS, teleport, regenerator or any combination of them besides teleport + regenerator is, in my opinion, misguided and realistically a suspect for those things would not happen bc of the fact that there are users of those abilites/moves that are not broken.

I understand that I have given very little reasoning behind this suggestion for a teleport + regenerator ban, but ppl have expressed my exact thoughts on this thread multiple times over the past few months, so it seems pointless to repeat them.
Problem with this is, I don’t think slowtwins would be bannable without futuresight, and banning the combination of moves seems unreasonable and idt it’s been done before, why not just ban the mon if you’re just gonna take most of its current viability.
 
I'm unsure the council is thinking about banning anything related to the teleport/regenerator/slowtwins/future sight shenanigans, but if they are, I feel like the only options for discussion are either "ban both slowtwins" or "ban one and see what happens". Banning the moves seems counterintuitive due to how many pokémon learn them and aren't broken (ditto with regenerator), and banning teleport + future sight seems too much of an unnecessary complex ban.
 

Finchinator

Harry's House
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
Can’t speak for council, but I personally find Teleport to be one of the worst facets of the metagame.

Not in a position to expand much more, but I think it would make more sense to discuss than the move Future Sight or either of Slowbro/Slowking. I do not think it is likely anything is acted on currently though.
 

termi

the eye of the needle
is a Tiering Contributor
Can’t speak for council, but I personally find Teleport to be one of the worst facets of the metagame.

Not in a position to expand much more, but I think it would make more sense to discuss than the move Future Sight or either of Slowbro/Slowking. I do not think it is likely anything is acted on currently though.
I've seen this sentiment of "Teleport is the problem" pop up in various places and it always strikes me as bizarre. Teleport does not seem remotely problematic to me on any mon other than the Slowtwins, as on any other mon clicking Teleport comes with the cost of potentially having to eat a hit without being able to Regen it off. At most, other mons with the combination of Future Sight + Teleport could be deemed problematic as a slow pivot greatly adds to the effect of Future Sight, but having played lower tiers where this strategy was viable for a while on mons like Exeggutor and Beheeyem, I can't really say it struck me as a severe issue in those cases. Would Slowking/Slowbro be significantly worse had they gotten, say, Flip Turn instead of Teleport? I doubt it. If anything it would just mean they can deal some chip damage and ignore Heatran's Taunt. To state that there is something wrong with Teleport in particular would require a lot more explanation than I typically get when people make this suggestion.

To me it seems like it is either the specific combination of Future Sight+Regenerator+pivoting move(+Boots) that is broken, meaning a ban on the Slowtwins would have to be considered - I don't really play OU so I'll leave that up to the discretion of those with more experience - or one of these components (or a combination thereof) is the problem and would require a complex ban. I would argue the combination of pivoting move + Boots or Regenerator (individually or in tandem with Boots) are vastly more problematic as mechanics than Teleport specifically, as it has been demonstrated throughout practically all tiers (and in Regen's case, throughout generations) that it is incredibly free to i.e. click U-Turn with a faster mon or switch a Regen mon out as you don't have to worry about chip damage accumulating over the course of the match. It does not require a lot of skill and is, in my opinion, not particularly competitive as a result. Naturally in Regen's case we have to consider the fact that the upper tiers would likely crumble defensively because power creep makes it harder every generation for the defensive metagame to keep up with the offensive metagame, so I'm not advocating for a ban here (for the moment), but if we're talking about moves/abilities/items that might be deemed unhealthy, it would make a lot more sense to talk about something like this than about Teleport in particular - unless of course you take the stance that pivoting moves as a whole are uncompetitive, which I would personally not agree with unless we are talking specifically about the combination of Boots + pivoting moves. In any case, this position would at least be consistent.
 
On top of the negative priority, I think the other thing that makes Teleport so good is that, on the right mon, it can't really be punished in the same way as other pivoting moves.

U-turn is resisted by a lot of types and can be directly punished via Rocky Helmet and abilities like Iron Barbs/Rough Skin and Flame Body. Volt Switch can be punished since it can be blocked altogether by Ground types. Flip Turn has the same Helmet and ability weakness as U-turn, plus several abilities that blank Water moves. Parting Shot is shut down by Taunt and can be flipped on the user by mons with Magic Bounce (plus all the mons that get it are niche at best in OU). And then there's Teleport.

The obvious downside of switching out at negative priority is that the opponent basically gets a free hit off; however, all the OU Teleporters have ways to negate this and/or perks that outway this downside. Slowtwins can actively heal off this damage when they switch out, Clefable has both Wish and Soft-Boiled to keep healthy and doesn't have to worry about passive damage thanks to Magic Guard, and Blissey- is Blissey. Also, their typings don't share any weakness (aside from Slowtwins), so many mons that can counter one Teleporter may not be able to do so for the others (Kartana and Bisharp can reliably smash through all 4, but that's kind of it). This means Taunt is the only truly reliable way to punish Teleport as a whole- one move. One move may be naturally harder to slot onto teams compared to "a Ground type" or "a Rocky Helmet user" (also several "punish contact" mons are some of the naturally best in the meta). And from what I can tell, Taunt does not seem to be the most common move ATM- at present Heatran is the only OU mon that seems to commonly run it. And while Heatran can potentially 1v1 all these mons with TrapTaunt, it's not necessarily the most reliable counter to any of them (it is a special attacker relying on passive damage that's weak to Scald).

If there is a problem with Teleport in and of itself, I think that problem is that the rest of the meta is not naturally conducive to countering it. There are more than a few OU mons that learn Taunt, and yet most of them don't use it because they have more appealing options; stallbreaking evidently just isn't popular in the meta right now. Which is odd considering just how many defensive staples are running around; you'd think Taunt would be naturally great in a meta like this (especially with Magic Bouncers being niche at best). So what is it about current OU that makes Taunt so thoroughly unpopular? As for breakers, we have already established that most breakers can't really break all 4 of the abusers reliably; the meta is naturally primed for Clef, Slows and to a lesser extent Bliss to be dominant.

Now, I agree that Teleport itself is not an issue. Rather, the issue is that the mons that viably run Teleport in OU are naturally very good at abusing it, especially the Slowtwins. I'm not really sure what could be done here; sure, Taunt actually getting used might stem this issue that many have, but considering it's one move that probably wouldn't hurt the Teleporters' viability that much. None of the individual parts of Slows are problematic, and as I said in a previous post most of the physical attackers have some way around them, but you may still need to run the right set and get those breakers in at the right time. So, the only suggestion I can think of: run Taunt. Even aside from countering Teleport, I think Taunt is undertested in the current environment, and that maybe we should at least see if it might be a viable strategy on more mons. Even if Taunt has issues, it might at least benefit the meta if we can explicitly determine what those issues are. Because the way it stands, Taunt is probably our best answer for Teleport.
 
IMO, the slowtwins are totally fine. The power of their future sight+teleport combination, while certainly very strong and meta defining, is nowhere near broken in my view. Teleport and Future Sight, while powerful, are in my opinion completely OK, and indeed are why I enjoy this metagame far more than previous ones.
 
I think that talking about broken or not broken for defensive Pokemon is kind of off topic, singularly no moves or abilities are that oppressive, at least not like broken offensive ones who can just make holes in a team, here the question is: "are they healthy or not healthy for the game ?" and that comes with so much subjectivity that it's impossible to get a valid reason to ban such things.

Me for example I just hate regenerator, since the boots are here it's just too easy to get a free switch in, leave and heal up, but that's me, some will say it's the boots, some the mon, a never ending debate who leads toward players growing discontent, and that's the core, what players feel and want should be resolved by players words.

I think we should do a "meta suspect test" or something like that, maybe by changing the requirements and maybe on regular basis, and then players would vote on different matters, just like we did with the survey some time ago, I really thing it's the only way to make real choices on these gray area matters and make a meta who fits players wishes.
 

Red Raven

I COULD BE BANNED!
I think banning the regular Slowtwins because of their access to future sight, teleport and regenerator would be a mistake. They're really good defensive staples and banning them would make all the monsters in the tier absolute nightmare. Anyway, I'll give my thoughts on these three individually and then the Slowtwins

Future sight is rather okay. It's actually a move you can get punished if you time it wrong but it does make the added pressure of an incoming attack somewhat irritating. It does have the downside that this leaves the mon vulnerable on the turn it uses the move, meaning it can die then and there. All in all, I don't think it is banworthy. Annoying, yes and I wouldn't mind seeing it go but in how we define banworthy, it doesn't fit

Regenerator, I think it is absolutely needed. Yes it does make someone like Tornadus somewhat ridiculous but in the long run, we need this otherwise the monsters in the tier will just hit you with one strong move, retreat and finish the job at a more opportune time. Entry hazards are still a thing and not all mons use the motherfucking boots, which means that spike stacking can be devastating. While I find playing against regenerator incredibly irritating, it is manageable enough. We have a lot of mons that can brute force their way thru regenerator mons. Garchomp can just double sd to power thru Slowbro or worse yet turn it into scale shot fodder. Tornadus can do the same and ensure that Slowking cannot bother it. In short, we need regenerator or the tier's heavy hitters would just be ridiculous

Teleport, I think this is bullshit. My hot take on this is that it drastically reduces the skill ceiling of the game. I really shouldn't talk about skill since I don't even want to go higher than 1500 elo but even here in the mid ladder, this move is just ridiculous. The only way to punish teleport is with taunt and not every taunt using pokemon can fit taunt in its moveset, not all the time anyway. The ability to just gain momentum unless the mon you're currently facing has taunt is just plain stupid. Unlike volt switch, u and flip turns, these three actually require you to predict what you will do. For example, if a Tornadus uses u turn and the opponent stays, now the Tornadus player has to take a risk because it is possible that the player is sending the next pokemon to its death or be crippled. The same goes for flip turn. Volt switch can even be blocked entirely by ground types. Teleport on the other hand, is near risk free. The only real risk is if the mon you're currently facing off against can kill you on that turn, which doesn't always happen and teleport always forces your opponent to reveal his hand before you do. My biggest issue with teleport and the reason why I say it reduces the skill ceiling is how near brainless it is to click. I mean, when using the other switch moves, you still have to do some deal of prediction like how Rotom has to choose between clicking volt switch or hydro pump but with teleport, there is almost no prediction required because you will see what your opponent plans to do and respond accordingly. Basically it gives one an advantage that they really shouldn't have had or they don't deserve because they didn't play their cards that well. It shifts the switch advantage back to the player lagging behind even if that player was outplayed and sometimes, that one shift might be all that player needs to turn the tide of the battle

Now, all in all, I think we should ban, or at the very least, discuss teleport. Don't get me wrong, this entire combination is stupid but I'm not particularly sure if a complex ban is a good idea. I mean Finch and BKC did say there was a lot of drama after the drizzle and swift swim ban in gen five in their two hour long podcast so I don't think anyone would want drama. If everyone is alright with having drama then by all means, ban this dumbass combination. Nothing would make me happier, except for banning boots, and I'm not being sarcastic. I used to be on the train to ban future sight but after playing for a few more months, it's not particularly bad. I mean, between teleport and future sight, fs has a higher risk in using than teleport and I already gave my thoughts on why banning regenerator would make the tier worse

About boots, you already know what I think of boots so I won't bother with it

If any of the council ends up reading this post, after the Zama suspect, would it be a good idea to have another survey? Not about specific mons but about specific mechanics. Like how do people feel about stuff like knock off or boots or teleport individually
 

Finchinator

Harry's House
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
OU & NU Leader
If any of the council ends up reading this post, after the Zama suspect, would it be a good idea to have another survey? Not about specific mons but about specific mechanics. Like how do people feel about stuff like knock off or boots or teleport individually
I’ll bring it up come time for the next survey, but we had two recently, so it may wait a little bit, especially as it’s likely we give the metagame some time to settle once the Zamazenta-C test ends. But yea, I’ll keep an open mind to including anything that isn’t a complex ban in the survey — we already have a PR thread on boots, this thread open for discussion of some other topics, and so on, too. Just know that for sure no complex bans, they will not be happening.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 5, Guests: 7)

Top