The problem is there's not even a blanket check because of the sheer amount of sets it could run, of the grounds you listed only hippo could stand up to band, and if the Solgaleo goes Adamant even the smallest amount of chip puts you at a very high risk of 2HKO.
I wont talk about this more for now, I wanted to point out that solgaleo gets psyquic fangs now too.
If u were to test zamazenta, for how long do u think we should let zama in the tier before deciding if its stays or not
A retest would likely be similar lengths to a normal suspect — expect 2 weeks, which is also what we had for both Melmetal and Cinderace earlier this generation.
I think we quickbanned melmetan when it was realeased in 2 days if I am not wrong. I am sure we never suspected melmetan tell me if I missunderstood something
My bad Finch I forgot
I will take this opportunity to remind us all about an uncalled for ban that damaged the Gen 8 OU metagame's stability permanently and that should be re-tested, if not just reversed immediatly:There's been some discussion about dropping some mons from Ubers in Zama-C as well as other previously and more recently discussed options in G-Darm, Necrozma Dawn-Wings, Solgaleo, and others. Of course, with the Gen 8 OU meta being in one of the most stable states it's ever been, now is the perfect time to play nuclear warhead testing grounds with it, so I'll throw this suggestion to the list:
Zacian-Crowned would be a good complimentary option to the Zamazenta suggestion in offering a potent wallbreaker in to spice up this passive meta. Zacian-C is capable of dismantling currently common defensive cores right now, but at the same time is not difficult to keep in check with top OU picks such as Quagsire and Scarf Ditto. Viable Counterplay options such as Taunt-spam + Intimidate-spam cycling between phys-Def Lando, Inciniroar, Fini, and other combinations are all interesting strategies that limit Zacian-C's ability to set up and break; this can be coupled with ID Press Skarm as well to severely handicap its functionality throughout the match while also having viability against threats such as SD Kart and Rillaboom making them easy to fit onto an average team. Its lack of ability to run a speed boosting item limits it to its simply above-average speed allowing it to be easily revenged by mons such as Scarf Lando. Zacian-C could also pave the way for further creativity such as PhysDef Wisp-Taunt-CP Mew which is an unexplored option in the tier at the moment and could do with more experimentation. You could argue that Zacian-C's presence can be somewhat centralising, and that certainly is true, but a healthy amount of centralisation is necessary to prevent the meta from developing further into a 'match-up' meta state as it might be headed now. It certainly doesn't hurt to test, and maybe its drop could lead to other considerations for potential unbans and re-tests for mons such as Calyrex-Shadow and Kyurem-Black.
Let's just stick with Zama-C for now if anything.
FWIW, Klutz AV Switcheroo Lop and Imprison mew are in no way viable (ok maybe imprison mew, kinda). However, I definitely would support a potential suspect, esp considering the amount of switch moves (Teleport, U-Turn, Volt Switch, Flip Turn)I will take this opportunity to remind us all about an uncalled for ban that damaged the Gen 8 OU metagame's stability permanently and that should be re-tested, if not just reversed immediatly:
We need Arena Trap and Shadow Tag back. As we all know, the Pocket Monsters: Sworld and Shield OverUsed metagame has been plagued by the disease we know by the name of "Stall". We need to do something about it, we have ignored this issue long enough! Tournament games and the ladder have demonstrated the total domination that Toxapex, Clefable, Blissey, Slowking, Chansey, Suicune, Milotic, Claydol, Vileplume and last but not least, Aromatisse have over the OverUsed metagame of generation 8 of Pokémon. People have to resort to run Heavy Buty Doots Ditto and Choice Scarf Thunder, Shadow Ball and Psyshock Reuniclus to have even a slight chance of out-stalling or revenge killing these potent threats, which results in a heavily restrictive and unfun metagame to both play and teambuild for.
My suggestion is a noble effort to stop this horrid situation, since both Gothitelle and Dugtrio have the heroic capabilities of beating these currently unbearable threats. Since some people might worry about these two pokemon having very few offensive counterplay too, i will provide information on how to beat them. Lum Berry PhysDef Landorus is immune to Dugtrio's Earthquake and doesn't take much from Stone Edge, and will shake off a Toxic to get a free KnockOut on Dugtrio. On the other hand, Klutz Assault Vest Switcheroo Lopunny and Mental Herb Taunt, Transform and Imprison Mew beat Gothitelle while remaining overall viable metagame stables. All in all, Dugtrio and Gothitelle would solve the biggest problem in our beloved Pokémon Sword and Shield DLC 2: Crown Tundra OverUsed metagame, while remaining not overwhelming to counterplay by common threats.
Have a nice day, my dear friend Tapeworm, and everyone in this thread. Let's do our best to fix the meta. Cheers!
Don't know my position about this, but about shadow tag, wobe and ghotitelle are the only ones with these ability, the question is if shadow tag is the issue or is wobbe or gothetellw
In previous generations (as I understand) it was found that shadow tag in general was broken - after gothitelle was banned, people started using gothorita for instance
Don't tell them. I kinda want to see how far this goes.
About boots, I have mix feeling, it is true that this let shine some mons without heavy support, like volc or zapdos. But then we get to something like zerarora, that is cancer with boots because it just knocks and runs away, unlike regenerator, teleport mons that are vulnerable to knock, other demons are koko and Pult with these item. Hazard are meant to punish switching, although they can be oppresive sometimes, the same goes to boots when used by certain mons. This bring trapping to the ecuation, I would normally be against it, but with the impunity these mons switch and cripple, it should be consider. Gen 4 is a gen where hazard are a very defining feature because of the lead battle and the spinning difficulty. At least for more offensive built, u have a timer and passive damage, including ttar means that u should think well your actions, because they can cost u the game. Currently with boots and no permanent sand means that is less risky to get wrong ur move and for example getting up a free spike because u played well, can be useless in the face of certain mons with boots. Dont get me wrong, I like not having always to worry about hazards, but this can be taken too far.While on the subject, I figure it would be a good idea, for the sake of transparency, to give my takes on the survey questions and explain them.
On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame? See: do you enjoy playing it?
This question I responded to with an 8. I've noticed that the current metagame is really hit and miss when it comes to player appeal, and that's for a myriad of reasons. To keep this part of the discussion short, though, Heavy-Duty Boots are likely the biggest reason. They are metagame defining in the tier right now, and it's no surprise as to why that is, given they provide a complete impunity to entry hazards. This has enabled a gigantic slew of Pokemon–namely offensive pivots–to become metagame staples. While I believe this may be an unpopular opinion, I believe that Heavy-Duty Boots, in a vacuum, are a healthy addition to the metagame that have helped to increase the variety of options by which people can facilitate and position their win conditions. I don't see them as broken, either, as there is a very clear opportunity cost in using them; namely, not having access to another item, and their ability to be mitigated with the use of Knock Off. They are the furthest thing from progress-proof, and have very adequate counterplay.
It may be in part to how I am a very positioning centric player that I enjoy the current state of the metagame, but I've had a lot of fun in the teambuilder thinking about different team combinations and win conditions, and there is no overtly broken threat that I'm forced to over-prep for to not lose to on the spot.
On a scale of 1-10, how good do you find the current metagame? See: do you find it competitive?
My answer to this question was also an 8 for pretty similar reasons as the above. The metagame is filled to the brim with variety and many different ways to approach building teams, albeit with a bias toward offenses and balances due to Heavy-Duty Boots being an incredible asset for offensive pivots like Tapu Koko and Zeraora, as well as unique stallbreakers like Zapdos and Kyurem. While individual Pokemon quality is always a variable to consider, I feel as though it's in a great state of balance that encourages players to explore the tier's options. There are a lot of things I currently feel haven't been discovered or seldom explored, and with this in mind I'm really optimistic about what the tier has in store for the future.
Should we retest Cinderace in SS OU?
This one I chose 2 for. I feel as though by nature Cinderace will always be a problem since it is such a risk-free, low-cost high reward Pokemon with incredibly polarizing capabilities provided to it thanks to its access to boosting and phenomenal coverage that helps it check a majority of the metagame with U-turn to cover the difference. 4MSS is a natural issue that comes with it, but Cinderace really doesn't care if it's running U-turn to escape potentially sour matchups, and Bulk Up/Work Up in tandem with a Life Orb let it overpower a majority of potential checks regardless. We've spent a lot of time looking at Cinderace in the past, and frankly, it still boasts the same fundamental issues that got it banned in the first place.
The main incentive for me choosing 2 over 1 is because Cinderace was simultaneously banned alongside Magearna, which may yield reasons that do not accurately reflect its state in a metagame without a Magearna for it to enable. Regardless, in spite of this, I don't think Cinderace is a wholly healthy addition to the metagame as it forces incredibly particular answers that can be very easily abused in tandem with its access to U-turn. I wouldn't have any issue testing it again once all other options have been exhausted, but I don't have faith in Cinderace's balance since it is a Pokemon that is by nature a broken enabler and a mess to properly check in a vacuum.
Should we test Zamazenta-C in SS OU?
I sort of teetered both ways here and chose 3 as it was probably the best balance of how I felt regarding Zamazenta as a whole. As I've expressed before, I am in massive support of a suspect test, as pretty much every point regarding its balance and "if it'll be too much" have been, bluntly, exhausted. At this point, arguing whether it is going to balanced or not in my eyes is pointless because we don't actually know how these points will fare in execution.
At a glance, I'm in team broken and would likely be pressed to keep it banned based on what we know and what I've observed of its abilities. That being said, though, literally every point made is a pure hypothetical and is something we genuinely cannot quantify without actually seeing it in action. I believe to put this to rest, Zamazenta 100% should be suspected, even if I think it will be too much.
Are there any Pokemon in the current metagame that you believe deserve a suspect test?
This I confidently voted no for. As stated, I feel at the current moment there is no real overcentralizing threat really on the radar, as every single Pokemon in this tier has several ways of being compromised; the polarity that they generate and how reliably something can be checked is mostly what determines the difference between suspect-worthy and top tier for me, personally. Tornadus-T, for example, I consider to be the best Pokemon in the tier, but I acknowledge it has several shortcomings that definitely keep it in check, but it has the polarity and the options necessary to be top dog in my eyes.
Amazing stuff from the council, as always! Thank you for all of the work you guys have been doing to keep the tier afloat, and I look forward to seeing what the next step is!
also yes shadow tag and arena trap are tots balanced, just run shed shell lol
