Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?

obviously the Pokémon themselves influence the answer, for example there’s a lot of good steel types AND steel has a lot of useful resistances.

meanwhile fire has only a small pool of viable threats however it packs super important resistances and possibly a top 3 STAB to go with it (for the current ICE ICE baby meta)



my thoughts would be something along the lines of steel, flying and ground being top dog. The other 2 could possible be debatable. Fairy has 3 extremely viable tapu’s for example, but they’re not swinging heat like heatran, victini, volcanion and Volcarona.
you need a ground type for zera/koko. rest is not like "type" thoughts, just put good mons that work together on the team.
that's it.

other types are like, just put good mons on. who cares. mb you could make a case w almost all rilla/kart checks being steels? but buzzwole does exist sooo
 
you need a ground type for zera/koko. rest is not like "type" thoughts, just put good mons that work together on the team.
that's it.

other types are like, just put good mons on. who cares. mb you could make a case w almost all rilla/kart checks being steels? but buzzwole does exist sooo
Steels are also nice to have against Lele. And there are other checks for Rilla/Kart, Like Tangrowth and Amoonguss. And a good number of flying types at least soft check them even if they don't like getting their Boots knocked off. I usually keep at least one Steel handy both because it's generally a strong defensive typing and also because LeLe/Kyu are scary.
 
Steels are also nice to have against Lele. And there are other checks for Rilla/Kart, Like Tangrowth and Amoonguss. And a good number of flying types at least soft check them even if they don't like getting their Boots knocked off. I usually keep at least one Steel handy both because it's generally a strong defensive typing and also because LeLe/Kyu are scary.
ye i forgot about those mons- i would still say that steels are like.
you'll end up with them on your team, yes.
but you arent like "hey i need to put a steel on", it just happens that you're weak to lele or kyurem and throw on your favorite check (Scizor, Corv, Tran, what have you).
also a team w/o steels>>>>>team w/o ground


also worth noting that of course with HO all of this goes to shit
 
Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?

obviously the Pokémon themselves influence the answer, for example there’s a lot of good steel types AND steel has a lot of useful resistances.

meanwhile fire has only a small pool of viable threats however it packs super important resistances and possibly a top 3 STAB to go with it (for the current ICE ICE baby meta)



my thoughts would be something along the lines of steel, flying and ground being top dog. The other 2 could possible be debatable. Fairy has 3 extremely viable tapu’s for example, but they’re not swinging heat like heatran, victini, volcanion and Volcarona.
I think it largely depends on the structure / playstyle (i.e. Rain will largely prefer stuff like Water-types), but personally, I think the 5 most important types are:

Steel
Ground
Electric
Flying
Fairy



Steel is just a pretty solid type in general. Gives you a decent buffer against a lot of the harder hitting moves in the tier like Dragapult's Draco Meteor, Tapu Lele's Psychic, etc. What's nice about Steel-types is that almost none of them play similarly at all. For example, despite both Scizor and Kartana being Sword Dance sweeping Steel-types, how they both go about achieving sweeping and how they are played in a match is pretty different from my experience.

Ground is my pick for the best typing in the tier, mainly because Garchomp and Landorus are both very strong Pokemon. They both have their disadvantages, but both have unparallel utility. Both are pretty good Stealth Rockers and each have their own advantages (Lando is really strong in pivoting cores and Intimidate opens up oppurtunities for other teammates, Garchomp is really fast and strong, making it a more threatening sweeper, epsiciallly with Swords Dance). Another reason Ground-types are strong is because they help prevent the Electric-types like Tapu Koko and Zeraora from freely spamming their STABs.

Flying-types are mainly good because they prevent the strong Ground-types from spamming their powerful Earthquakes. They've also got solid utility against other stuff like Rillaboom and Kartana and most importantly, Defog. Most of the best Flying-types like Tornadus-T, Lando-T and Corviknight are also pretty strong pivots thanks to U-Turn.

Even though Landorus-T and Garchomp are really good I think the Electric-types, (specifically Tapu Koko and Zeraora) are also mad strong too. A lot of the top tier threats, like Corviknight, Urshifu-R, and Toxapex get sliced by their STAB Electric moves. Most teams usually run Garchomp or Lando-T as their main electric-check and both can be worn down heavily throughout the match through smart play. Arctozolt is another very scary electric-type in hail thanks to Slush Rush and OHKOing both Garchomp and Landorus-T. I think other Electric-types like Zapdos and Thundurus-T also have the potential to be really scary in hail too since they can just cleave through Lando / Chomp with Weather Ball.

Fairy is probably the most questionable type on this list, as I believe a lot of other types like Dark, Fire, Ghost, and Ice could be argued to be the 5th best. I mainly put it here because, teambuilding-wise, Fairy has similar utility to Steel in that its able to pivot into some of the scarier moves in the tier, like Weavile's Knock Off and Dragapult's Draco Meteor.

Most of my picks on this list come from playing OU matches, not teambuilding (I struggle pretty hard with this) so keep that in mind.
 
ye i forgot about those mons- i would still say that steels are like.
you'll end up with them on your team, yes.
but you arent like "hey i need to put a steel on", it just happens that you're weak to lele or kyurem and throw on your favorite check (Scizor, Corv, Tran, what have you).
also a team w/o steels>>>>>team w/o ground


also worth noting that of course with HO all of this goes to shit
I wouldn't say you totally need a ground type either, but Garchomp and Lando-T are consistently good and way easier to slap onto a team than most non-ground Zera/Koko checks like Amoonguss or whatever. I wouldn't say that any type is totally mandatory but Ground, Electric, Steel and Flying stand out as more prominent types than the others.
 
I wouldn't say you totally need a ground type either, but Garchomp and Lando-T are consistently good and way easier to slap onto a team than most non-ground Zera/Koko checks like Amoonguss or whatever. I wouldn't say that any type is totally mandatory but Ground, Electric, Steel and Flying stand out as more prominent types than the others.
I would argue that while you can check those pokemon without ground types, you cannot prevent volt switch spamming from Zeraora in particular (and to a lesser extent, koko)

Flying i guess is sorta important? again i feel like other types are just, like, you put them on the team while teambuilding but you dont say to yourself "ok i need to put on [x] type". steel is the perfect ex of this

electric is def not needed, with Zone, koko, zapdos, zera, and i guess Technically arctozolt being the only mainstream options. While Zone is a staple, none of the others are even close to that status (and zone is only a staple on certain offenses)

(worth noting distinction between "most necessary types" and "best types"- i'm answering the former)
 
Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?

obviously the Pokémon themselves influence the answer, for example there’s a lot of good steel types AND steel has a lot of useful resistances.

meanwhile fire has only a small pool of viable threats however it packs super important resistances and possibly a top 3 STAB to go with it (for the current ICE ICE baby meta)



my thoughts would be something along the lines of steel, flying and ground being top dog. The other 2 could possible be debatable. Fairy has 3 extremely viable tapu’s for example, but they’re not swinging heat like heatran, victini, volcanion and Volcarona.
You absolutely need a steel, ground, and a flying type in current ou. If we are going for 5 I'd say 90% of balances and even offences could do for a fairy, but its not really a mandatory slot. Last one is up for debate but I've personally made it a statement to always have a dragon. Lots of annoying waters, fires, and grasses in this tier. Helps it round out. Dragon is replaceable with a water type though, you hardly see teams without one. Up for debate really.
 

Fusien

Have a great day!
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Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?

obviously the Pokémon themselves influence the answer, for example there’s a lot of good steel types AND steel has a lot of useful resistances.

meanwhile fire has only a small pool of viable threats however it packs super important resistances and possibly a top 3 STAB to go with it (for the current ICE ICE baby meta)



my thoughts would be something along the lines of steel, flying and ground being top dog. The other 2 could possible be debatable. Fairy has 3 extremely viable tapu’s for example, but they’re not swinging heat like heatran, victini, volcanion and Volcarona.
My 4 would be Ground, Flying, Steel, and Electric, and I’m more mixed on the fifth one. Ground Flying and Steel are all almost always needed imo for some of the key metagame moves and threats, and Electric is super nice to have for the very annoying Tornadus-Therian, though I would say it’s notably less necessary than the first 3. As for the fifth one, I’m split between Fairy, Water, and even Dragon, as though these are nice to have, it isn’t the end of the world at all if a team lacks one/some of these, as long as they have an alternative out vs a threat (steel as a Draco resist) or another offensive mon with similar pressure if the type is being used offensively.
 
I would argue that while you can check those pokemon without ground types, you cannot prevent volt switch spamming from Zeraora in particular (and to a lesser extent, koko)

Flying i guess is sorta important? again i feel like other types are just, like, you put them on the team while teambuilding but you dont say to yourself "ok i need to put on [x] type". steel is the perfect ex of this

electric is def not needed, with Zone, koko, zapdos, zera, and i guess Technically arctozolt being the only mainstream options. While Zone is a staple, none of the others are even close to that status (and zone is only a staple on certain offenses)

(worth noting distinction between "most necessary types" and "best types"- i'm answering the former)
Zeraora on offense and Shedinja on stall are options for dealing with that if you want an immunity. Mind you Chomp and Lando are way more splashable and versatile options, and at least 90% of the time you want a ground type somewhere, but there are viable builds that cover those bases without one.
 
Zeraora on offense and Shedinja on stall are options for dealing with that if you want an immunity. Mind you Chomp and Lando are way more splashable and versatile options, and at least 90% of the time you want a ground type somewhere, but there are viable builds that cover those bases without one.
shed dies to knock and zera is laughably useless for checking this over the course of a longer game w knock and cc being highly annoying.

also chomp and lando arent the only options- important ones include gastrodon, swampert (ok not really this one), and arguably best- hippowdon.
 
Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?
Context is everything, but I'd argue that every competent team should have a Flying-type as well as a Ground-type or a mon that replicates an Electric immunity, most competent teams should have a Steel-type, most strong offenses have an Ice-type, most teams should have a Dark-type, and most teams should have a Fairy-type.

Of course, this doesn't paint the whole picture. Lando-T and Garchomp each provide a ton for any team beyond just being Ground-types, while most Steels do more than just be Steels. Ice-types are amazing on offensively-inclined teams like typical Weavile offense, Kyurem offense/balance, or Hail but suck defensively in a meta where Avalugg's series of quirky traits aren't really providing Stall much of anything like they do in a Zygarde/MMaw meta. Dark-types are obviously amazing but all good Darks in this tier also fulfill one of the other obligatory typings.

Flying is the closest thing to a "mandatory" typing in this tier imo, but that's to be expected when Big Lando holds the tier together as much as he does while Tornadus-T, Corviknight, DNite, Skarmory, and Zapdos are all prominent (each to varying degrees, of course) and almost any team without Lando-T has one of these (with several featuring both Big Lando and one of these). ANY archetype will have a Flying-type; they offer important defensive utility with an obligatory Ground immunity, many of them offer much more, and many of these serve as a team's obligatory Rillaboom answer.
 
Hey everyone been wondering this a while..

based on the viable threats in OU, what would you say are the 5 most important types to have for team building?

obviously the Pokémon themselves influence the answer, for example there’s a lot of good steel types AND steel has a lot of useful resistances.

meanwhile fire has only a small pool of viable threats however it packs super important resistances and possibly a top 3 STAB to go with it (for the current ICE ICE baby meta)



my thoughts would be something along the lines of steel, flying and ground being top dog. The other 2 could possible be debatable. Fairy has 3 extremely viable tapu’s for example, but they’re not swinging heat like heatran, victini, volcanion and Volcarona.
For me, it's only ground and steel that I would say are truly needed. Other types usually vary depending on which pokemon I am building a team around. However, for most of my teams, the other three are usually the ones that can be found on them

Steels have a lot of useful resistances while Garchomp and Landorus are just great pokemon in general. Hippowdon is an even great mon since it has invaluable utility in its ability which means you don't autolose to hail if you can't find a pokemon that is dedicated to not lose to Arctozolt

The third would either be fairy or dragon. I know Garchomp is a dragon type but in truth, it doesn't really play like one. You don't usually spam scale shot and mixed sets are rare. Fairy is usually on my team because of their utility although it is mostly just Koko or Fini while the dragon type I use that plays like a dragon is Dragapult because of its speed and very spammable styping

Fourth would be water for me. Pex is just simply unkillable while I've been having a lot of fun using Milotic as well

Fifth is electric and that's only because Koko is a great pokemon. Arctozolt is also great while the others are mostly meh

The order from most to least important for me would be steel > ground > fairy / dragon > water > electric
 
From the lens of a rain enthusiast, the five most important types are:

Water
Ground (or Volt Absorb)
Electric
Steel
Flying

A successful rain team is centered around those types. It’s not uncommon to see these in all 6 of the mons.

For non-rain teams, I’ve found myself always having an electric immunity, a steel type, a dragon, and at least two ground immunities.
 
shed dies to knock and zera is laughably useless for checking this over the course of a longer game w knock and cc being highly annoying.

also chomp and lando arent the only options- important ones include gastrodon, swampert (ok not really this one), and arguably best- hippowdon.
Hippowdon is always a reliable pick. I will never say no to Hippo friend who tanks everything and doesn't care.
 
So it looks like there is more or less three dominant types: ground, flying, steel.

how about a team that uses none of those types, with the additional requirements below:

- No electric immunities permitted
- No ground immunities permitted

steel is immune to poison, however there isn’t any ability that provides immunity to the poison typing, so don’t need that third requirement.

The not-permitted list would include some premium picks!

:landorus-therian:
:tornadus-therian:
:Ferrothorn:
:Garchomp:
:corviknight:
:heatran:
:zeraora:



How far along the ELO/GXE ladder do you think you can get with a team that meets those requirements, in the current meta?

I’d probably run a fire type to replicate some of steel and flying’s resists,

you’d need an electric type for sure due to the rare flying resist and electric resist.

You’d probably need a grass/bug type as well, just because ground type moves would otherwise wreck you. it would be embarrassing to be swept by the most common Pokémon in OU!

Might need a poison type to soak up the odd toxic attack.

maybe buzzwole/Rillaboom/koko/victini? Last two would could use some good flex options.
 
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So it looks like there is more or less three dominant types: ground, flying, steel.

how about a team that uses none of those types, with the additional requirements below:

- No electric immunities permitted
- No ground immunities permitted

steel is immune to poison, however there isn’t any ability that provides immunity to the poison typing, so don’t need that third requirement.

The not-permitted list would include some premium picks!

:landorus-therian:
:tornadus-therian:
:Ferrothorn:
:Garchomp:
:corviknight:
:heatran:
:zeraora:



How far along the ELO/GXE ladder do you think you can get with a team that meets those requirements, in the current meta?

I’d probably run a fire type to replicate some of steel and flying’s resists,

you’d need an electric type for sure due to the rare flying resist and electric resist.

You’d probably need a grass/bug type as well, just because ground type moves would otherwise wreck you. it would be embarrassing to be swept by the most common Pokémon in OU!

Might need a poison type to soak up the odd toxic attack.

maybe buzzwole/Rillaboom/koko/victini? Last two would could use some good flex options.
Buzzwole/Rillaboom/Koko/Victini is a pretty respectable offensive core with defensive utility. With Electric Terrain Thunderpunch Buzzwole and Bolt Strike Victini are considerably better at breaking annoying mons so Rillaboom can clean up. It's at least a good place to start building a team under those restrictions.

Challenge2 (pokepast.es)
Anyways I did get this team to 1700+ fairly easily observing all the listed restrictions, though I don't think it proves that much and I'm pretty confident that it'd be better just swapping out Dragalge for one of any number of meta Pokemon that would be prohibited under those rules. You can get by without a Ground type/Electric immunity, or a Steel type, or a Flying type/Ground immunity, but you don't want to go without all 3 if you're trying to build an optimal team with how much utility they provide in the current meta.
 
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Honestly, the last few posts(except for the dragonite one, obviously) have felt less like a need to discuss a set and more like an opportunity to pile on to a player. About half of them offer nothing of substance, only condescending comments, and the other half, while offering constructive criticisms is also liberally peppered with those same condescending comments. I do remember a few days/weeks ago someone talking about smogon community being very gatekeepy sometimes, and looking at these comments, I kinda understand them. While, again, some(about 50%) of the manectric comments are constructive(the other half is basically a non one liner one liner "hurr durr manectric bad"), they still seem to be mostly coming from a place of tearing someone down rather than actually discussing the mon in question, even though to be fair it might be a secondary concern.
i really dont think its fair to say the people responding to malachite's post are dogpiling when this was posted in the metagame discussion thread, this isn't like the heat thread or something where people just kind post random stuff and people look at them and call it neat.
1) just a brief little aside on this topic, but it’s not the content or the counter arguments so much as it’s the tone imo. I didn’t think as many were as dogpiling, but when you have a list of rebuttals, and mixed in you have rebuttals that are dismissive or whatever, it kinda colors your perception of the list. Saying things like “manectric trash don’t use” for example, even if done for humor, isn’t gonna be funny to people who might already have an (understandable IMO) perception of gatekeeping or elitism from the site or whatever.

again, I also have many reservations about mane like others have listed, but idk I just don’t like some of the dismissive discourse that happens, it kinda reduces the likelihood of someone wanting to put the effort in to putting together a post to address the counter arguments when a dismissive post gets quite a few likes, yknow? It’s just not conducive to an ongoing discourse, and if discussing the niche of a thing, it might need some ongoing discussion.

I’m sure that in most cases the throwaway comments like the one I referenced aren’t being serious, but thinking from the perspective of an initial poster, they have a dismissive comment and it’s liked a bunch so… maybe they shouldn’t keep responding?

Just a general example, because like for me I know my perception on the forums can already be colored by stuff like the 250 likes comments like this kings rock ban comment:
“I'm going to demand that King's Rock be banned from SS OU immediately. Anyone who has kept up with OLT ladder (like myself (who qualified unlike xray and the other do not banners)) should feel the same way. Either the fools fix their votes or they step down, either one works.

Thank you for your cooperation.”

so anyway, tl;dr the way we talk matters (this is not directed at any person in particular, it’s just a thought I’ve had for a while and this comment seemed a good one to bounce off of)


2) A sort of question I have (that I guess is more philosophical about the tier than directly practical) - how constricting is role compression in team building? and even more specifically, how constricting Is crazy role compression + pivot moves?

For me, I struggle with it a ton. I don’t just mean while building and including your own stuff that has solid role compression but more so factoring for your opponent having it. For example, you don’t need fire checks. You need a fire/trapper check that can survive EP or being statuses/taunted, due to heatran being wacky.

as for the pivot moves aspect, you don’t just need a Lando switch in. You need something that can switch into an eq, but also not worry too much about being pivoted on, and then after all that, you have to have something else to switch into whatever they potentially pivoted into, which because so many staple mons cover so much, means another set of variables (which is why, back to the magnet pull topic, I think a topic of similar merit for discussion is the effect that pivot moves like uturn port and volt switch have on the game… not making any broad statements or definitive statements, just an observation).

If switching is a fundamental aspect of the game, is pivoting like that not considered a disruption of your opponent‘s switching? it feels especially relevant since as I mentioned, they’re probably pivoting into a mon that covers like 40 million options lol

anyway, this felt a lot less clear and a lot more rambley than I usually write, so apologies there
 
1) just a brief little aside on this topic, but it’s not the content or the counter arguments so much as it’s the tone imo. I didn’t think as many were as dogpiling, but when you have a list of rebuttals, and mixed in you have rebuttals that are dismissive or whatever, it kinda colors your perception of the list. Saying things like “manectric trash don’t use” for example, even if done for humor, isn’t gonna be funny to people who might already have an (understandable IMO) perception of gatekeeping or elitism from the site or whatever.

again, I also have many reservations about mane like others have listed, but idk I just don’t like some of the dismissive discourse that happens, it kinda reduces the likelihood of someone wanting to put the effort in to putting together a post to address the counter arguments when a dismissive post gets quite a few likes, yknow? It’s just not conducive to an ongoing discourse, and if discussing the niche of a thing, it might need some ongoing discussion.

I’m sure that in most cases the throwaway comments like the one I referenced aren’t being serious, but thinking from the perspective of an initial poster, they have a dismissive comment and it’s liked a bunch so… maybe they shouldn’t keep responding?

Just a general example, because like for me I know my perception on the forums can already be colored by stuff like the 250 likes comments like this kings rock ban comment:
“I'm going to demand that King's Rock be banned from SS OU immediately. Anyone who has kept up with OLT ladder (like myself (who qualified unlike xray and the other do not banners)) should feel the same way. Either the fools fix their votes or they step down, either one works.

Thank you for your cooperation.”

so anyway, tl;dr the way we talk matters (this is not directed at any person in particular, it’s just a thought I’ve had for a while and this comment seemed a good one to bounce off of)


2) A sort of question I have (that I guess is more philosophical about the tier than directly practical) - how constricting is role compression in team building? and even more specifically, how constricting Is crazy role compression + pivot moves?

For me, I struggle with it a ton. I don’t just mean while building and including your own stuff that has solid role compression but more so factoring for your opponent having it. For example, you don’t need fire checks. You need a fire/trapper check that can survive EP or being statuses/taunted, due to heatran being wacky.

as for the pivot moves aspect, you don’t just need a Lando switch in. You need something that can switch into an eq, but also not worry too much about being pivoted on, and then after all that, you have to have something else to switch into whatever they potentially pivoted into, which because so many staple mons cover so much, means another set of variables (which is why, back to the magnet pull topic, I think a topic of similar merit for discussion is the effect that pivot moves like uturn port and volt switch have on the game… not making any broad statements or definitive statements, just an observation).

If switching is a fundamental aspect of the game, is pivoting like that not considered a disruption of your opponent‘s switching? it feels especially relevant since as I mentioned, they’re probably pivoting into a mon that covers like 40 million options lol

anyway, this felt a lot less clear and a lot more rambley than I usually write, so apologies there
smaller (and honestly pretty tangential) ramble:

Teambuilding isn't about types, its about matchups, and types are merely a (fairly poor) heuristic for the same
IMO, when you teambuild, you should not be thinking "ok i need a check to ground types"- instead you should identify what ground types you need to deal with. In theory, you could just throw, say, tangrowth and pretend it's done- then nidoking or mixed chomp rolls up and destroys it. Typing dictates matchups, but just having mons with typings to counter every type in the game is extremely inefficient. The only type you should specifically be like "i need to have something to beat this type" is electric due to Koko and Zeraora volt switching (which requires an immunity to halt momentum), and to a lesser extent Dracozolt. Even here, it's not just any old electric immune that'll do- something like a Zeraora is not gonna cut it because without further work, dracozolt just is gonna smack you.

Or let's say you struggle against fire types- you can't just throw your favorite water on there- partially due to concerns with heatran trapping, and partially because many of them lose to other prominent fire types like Victini or Volcarona. (also worth noting that you have to choose more defensive options if you want a consistent way of dealing with them that has longevity).

Another example is how a lot of mons's best answers.. aren't resists. The classical example is Weavile/Bisharp and Corviknight here. (Those two are especially good examples, given that the resists to them that are decent defensive mons are.. Clefable, Tapu Fini, Mandibuzz, and arguably ttar, all of which have problems dealing with bisharp and arent great vs weav either).

I also want to quickly note that the same issue arises with the sort of physical wall+Special wall thing where nowhere near to everything gets covered- classic examples are bliss+skarm (heatran, zone offense, and really any physical attacker that can brute force through skarm) and blissbro (literally any grass type & any dark type & physical pult)

If you focus on covering zones (whether it be types or physical/special) you will often ultimately fail to adequately deal with the metagame. IMO, you need to primarily focus on the main pokemon in the metagame, and how to check them.

anywho thanks for reading to the end, if you have questions feel free to post them here or dm me on smogon/put them on my wall/dm me on disc (PulsieTheDulsie#3895)

ps: occasionally you do want to like do this sort of type coverage thing but thats mostly just for mons that have like 0 coverage like Spectrier and to a lesser degree pult
 

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TL;DR for those who don't wanna read a wall of text: fire type good. Make opponent sad. Make you happy if you use them so use them!

Hello everyone, today I wanted to talk about something that's been on my mind for a while, being the Fire-type and it's place in the OU metagame. Ever since I was a kid I found the Fire-type to be the coolest in the game, and after playing SS OU for several months now, I feel it is arguably one of, if not the best offensive types in the metagame. I'd like to use this post to explain my reasoning and maybe shed some light on some trends I've seen a bit lately. I'll break this into two parts: the type itself, and the relevant Fire-types in OU. First, the type itself.

It's no secret that the Fire-type is very strong offensively. It has only three resists outside of itself, being Rock, Dragon, and Water. Defensive Water-types are rampant in the tier, with all of Tapu Fini, the Slowtwins, Lord Pex, and even Swampert seeing significant usage. Needless to say, in one form or another, defensive Water-types are pretty much staples on most viable team structures. So what about the other two types? Let's start with Rock-types in OU. Tyranitar... and that's it. No other Rock-types reach OU usage. On top of that, Tyranitar is quite uncommon, especially in tournament play and the higher ladder. Unfortunately the removal of Pursuit hurt Tyranitar greatly. Not to say it's bad, but from this point on you'll start to see a trend with the rest of this post. So let's move on to the Dragons in OU. Dragonite, Garchomp, Hydreigon, and Dragapult are the four that made the cut. They all happen to be pseudo-legendaries too, so clearly they're quite strong by BST alone. However, if you take a closer look, you might see that pattern that I'm trying to show with this post. Of these mentioned, Dragapult is infamously an offensive demon, and while it has very useful resistances, it's defenses are lacking and often cannot switch in more than once on anything stronger than a resisted attack from a defensive Pokémon. Hydreigon stands out as a bulky pokemon with good resistances and typing, but it has an awkward place in the metagame at the moment and isn't the most used pokemon out there. Dragonite also falls into this category too. Good bulk and defensive typing, but its days of being a defensive Pokémon are basically behind it once people realized that it's a complete momentum sink. It's still a threat offensively with its DD set that shouldn't be slept on, but it's still uncommon on most team structures. Finally we get to Garchomp. Not counting Dragapult, Garchomp is clearly the best of these, and also the most versatile. Do you want a sweeper that can clean weakened teams with ease? SD Scale Shot. Do you want a Stealth Rock setter that makes physical attackers sad with contact moves? PhysDef Rocky Helmet. Hell, I've even played around with a specially defensive spread with Protect to keep heatran in line and disrupt special attackers with some success. Garchomp is a mon that has stood the test of time generation after generation and has found a way to be a staple in the metagame every time.

All that being said, lets circle back to the Fire-type. Quickly I wanna mention that being super effective against grass and bug types is cool but the most important type is steel, given how you'll find at least one on every team, and it's the only type that's 4x SE against both Scizor and Ferrothorn, 2 mons notorious for their longevity.

Back to the resistances, there's a pretty clear trend I noticed (sidenote: I'm omitting Fire-types here because I'll get to all the mons below in pt 2), outside of bulky Water-types and Garchomp, and Heatran with Flash Fire, there aren't a lot of mons that reliably resist Fire-type attacks. Some more uncommon mons like the dragons I mentioned and TTar come to mind, but finding a resist for a Heatran Magma Storm or Blacephalon Overheat that isn't a Water-type is pretty hard. They exist, sure, but those that play regularly know how hard these mons are to switch into due to common answers getting worn down and the coverage moves these mons regularly carry.

And therein lies the point I'm trying to make. Finding reliable switch-ins to these mons can be difficult. Toxapex doesn't fit on every team structure and has to be wary of Future Sight support. Tapu Fini is great, but it's downfall is the lack of reliable recovery it has outside of Leftovers and it is often prone to being worn down over time. The slowtwins are great (yes, including Slowking. Fite me), but aren't the most used and dislike the prevalence of all the Ghost and Dark moves being thrown around. Swampert is kinda meh, and the least seen in higher level play. Funny enough, Dragonite and Hydreigon are two of the more durable resists out there, but as I stated above, they're not terribly common and can sometimes have trouble finding a teamslot. I don't want to downplay their usefulness, as all these mons are very good and integral to many team structures, but we're starting to see the limits of reliable fire resists.

Edit: noticed I forgot Gastrodon. It's a good defensive mon but really only fits on fat teams and can be a momentum sink. Suffers from low usage as well.

So what about non resists? You have mons like blissey, the catch all for special attackers, but even she can get overwhelmed through U-Turns and double switches and often has to choose between teleporting or healing itself. Hippo is a durable ground type with reliable recovery and scares these mons out with SE EQs, but it's not much of a threat to anything that can eat its Earthquakes and doesn't fit on every team. Even OU Overlord Lando T has problems with being a catch all, as it can be overwhelmed and is prone to being worn down over time. Tornadus-T can take a hit usually but often cannot repeatedly switch in, and it's forced out to regenerate its health after it knocks an item usually. Good mon, but it's not repeatedly eating magma storms or overheats. Urshifu can take physical hits well, but it's poor special bulk means it has one or two switchins at best, and doesn't like the common coverage moves seen on mons like blacephalon and volcarona. It's excellent offensively though and if it gets in safely it almost always forces them out. Finally we reach Galarian Slowking, the pinnacle of BO special pivots. It's great, and one of the best mons in the tier, but it can't reliably handle any fire type. The special attackers like heatran and Blacephalon just punch past it, and it's not known for its physical bulk. If it carries EQ it can beat Heatran if healthy, but aside from this specific interaction it's a suboptimal moveslot.

So to conclude this long wall of text, the Fire-type is excellent offensively. While having a common resist in water, coverage moves and teammates can pressure them greatly (anyone notice how well Fire-types synergize on hail? Look at the best Hail teams. You'll see one). Furthermore metagame staples that can take hits have drawbacks such as passiveness and proness to being worn down. The lack of common resists outside of the water type goes heavily in the favor of Fire-types and as such are seeing a lot of success currently.

I don't want to do a deep dive into Fire-types defensively, as I'm focused on their offensive prowess in this post, but I would like to quickly mention that they have a very useful resist to fire(!!!) and Ice, Heatran is one of the best mons in the tier, and Boots mean that Stealth Rock isn't as much of a worry for things like Victini or Volcanion like it used to be in years past. Not the best defensive typing out there, but not the worst. I'd say solidly average with some really nice upsides.

So now I'd like to dive a bit into the Fire-types that see usage in OU. This list isn't in a particular order, but I'll try to keep the ones that are OU by usage at the top.

:heatran: The metagame defining threat that makes players tremble in fear on team preview, we'll start with the S- threat in Heatran. It's no secret that Heatran is one of the most oppressive threats in the tier. It's staple spdef Stealth Rock set is not only one of the most consistent defensive mons in the tier, but it is also offensively threatening as well. Magma Storm is notorious for being difficult to switch into repeatedly, which is often relegated to fat waters and grounds. However, even these have to be careful of being overwhelmed, as it's not uncommon for heatran to power through them. Assuming all its moves hit, of course. Capable of fitting on basically any team structure, it's only true downside is its lack of recovery outside of Leftovers. Even then, it has surprising longevity if it doesn't get knocked off given the amount of switches it forces. It's even seen wearing some fashionable specs every once and a while and nuking shit with Eruption. Probably the best showcase of this was when Ox the Fox used it in WCoP finals to great success and it claimed over half the opponents team. And it wasn't even on a sun team! Another thing I'd like to note I that I believe Heatran is one of the best Future Sight abusers in the tier. Hydreigon, Slowking, and Tyranitar are the only mons capable of stomaching this combination repeatedly, as typical switch ins like Pex and Garchomp get nuked by the impending Future Sight. FS is notorious with Urshifu, but I think Heatran is slept on as an abuser and I wouldn't be surprised to see the combo popping up more and more.

:Volcarona: The infamous matchup moth is back in OU once again, all thanks to its shiny new boots. Cries for a ban rang across the tier a few months ago, as it terrorized teams (and my dreams) far and wide. It only really has one true counter in heatran, as everything else can be accommodated in its moveslots. Unfortunately hidden power got nuked, but that hasn't stopped Volcarona from finding its place in the meta. The metagame adapted to it, and it's usage fell quite a bit recently, but some recent SCL games showed some new techs that proves its capable of adapting to what OU throws at it. It's always a threat, and lives up to its moniker. If one isn't careful, it's just one Quiver Dance away from sweeping your team. Sidenote: it's probably the only true Kyurem counter in the game with its bulky QD set.

That's it for Fire-types OU by usage, but there are still several more seen in the tier.

:Blaziken: The Blaze Chicken was finally freed from Ubers after a long decade in the abyss. Cinderace took its place as the Fire-type starter to be banished, and Blaziken has done its best in OU. It's obviously the coolest mon ever and an S++ mon and everyone should use it. Moving on.

I kid, but I do feel Blaziken is slept on right now. It probably won't 6-0 a team turn 1 like it could in the past (though I have done that before), but it got some cool new toys in SS like Close Combat, U-turn, and Knock Off(I think it was gen 8?). Close Combat forgoes 10 BP in favor of 100% accuracy and not losing half it's health on missing HJK. Both Choice Band and Swords Dance are viable, though the latter is more consistent in my opinion. Landorus-T moving to SpDef, the relatively low usage of Slowbro, and offense being the predominant playstyle all work in favor of Blaziken. It's not the most consistent mon, but if it gets a free turn it can often claim a kill or two. Fire/Fighting STAB is incredible, and Speed Boost on top of it makes revenge killing difficult outside of priority. All that being said, Blaziken often kills itself with LO + FB recoil on top of Rough Skin/Rocky Helmet shenanigans, so it's staying power is limited. Furthermore, it needs a Jolly Nature to outspeed metagame staples such as Dragapult and Koko at +1, which hurts its damage output. It can also struggle at times with some current fat cores and doesn't always have an opportunity to set up. It's no longer the Uber worthy threat it was in years past, but I do think it's a mon worth exploring in the current metagame. I've had a lot of fun with it recently and I think others will too (RMT coming soon)

:blacephalon: The faceless clown has seen a spike in usage thanks to people realizing that Fire/Ghost coverage is resisted by only TTar and Hydreigon, and form an very potent STAB combo. While blace has piss poor defenses and is Stealth Rock weak, it nukes something any time it gets a free turn with its specs set. Furthermore, beast boost means it's capable of snowballing out of control quickly. It has a very good offensive matchup vs offense as they often lack a switch in, so positioning sacks becomes paramount facing it. Furthermore, scarf is a pretty good late game cleaner thanks to it not fearing many priority moves and an excellent speed tier. It's not the best mon out there because it doesn't really switch in on anything and dies to a sneeze, but it's still a threat nonetheless.

:victini: Probably the most versatile on this list, it's very much a jack of all trades, master of none type of mon. It can nuke shit with Banded V-Creates, or be a potent pivot wearing its favorite boots and U-Turn. It's often seen as a physical attacker, but recently Glaciate has caught on to lure in Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Dragonite. I've also seen people experiment with special sets that make use of expanding force paired with Lele, and even some FS shenanigans since it forces a decent amount of switchins. Victini does suffer a bit from disappointing power output aside from V Create and SE coverage, and its defensive typing, while useful, leaves it prone to being forced out by some metagame staples. A reliance on Boots means it has no recovery and cannot afford to get knocked off at all. Despite these flaws, however, I wouldn't be surprised to see it reach OU usage soon given its positive traits.

:Volcanion: A very recent development in OU, Volcanion sees a majority of its usage on weather based teams. It's a nuke under rain with specs and it synergizes very well with Hail, which is evident in the infamous Ox Hail team (I'm starting to see a trend here :blobthinking: ). I've also seen it pop up on general offense and balance teams. Both boots and specs are useful and I've seen both used to great effect. On top of that, Fire/Water is a sneaky good defensive typing and 80/120/90 bulk is nothing to scoff at. It's a very recent metagame development and I'm not sure if it's a passing fad or here to stay, but I'm interested in seeing its usage develop over SCL.

:torkoal::darmanitan: I'm lumping these two together since they're only ever seen on Sun teams, but Torkoal is the only good sun setter and has excellent utility with rocks, rapid spin, and shit like yawn and lava plume to not be completely passive. On top of that its physical bulk is really good and it can even be EVed to hit hard, as seen in some Sun RMTs that are floating around. Unfortunately, rest is its only recovery and its weak to rocks so it doesn't have the most longevity, but it's often able to set up the sun at least twice a match and enable some powerful mons.

Darmanitan is simple: Fire Gorilla go ham with Banded Flare Blitz in sun. Even resists are crying after taking sun boosted attacks from this demon. It sucks outside of sun teams and has no longevity at all, but it nukes things with its attacks and can be scary to face. Remember how I said fire resists aren't terribly common outside of fat waters above? This mon makes fat waters look like grass types with the damage it does. It's a fun mon to try on sun and seeing the damage output is insane.

:moltres: Pls don't use this mon it sucks.

I might be missing some niche mons but I think I've covered all the common ones.

All of the mons I mentioned are good, and some are incredible. I wanted to bring everything together and conclude this wall of text by saying that I think the common denominator for all these mons is a lack of consistent resists for their main STABs and coverage aside from a few select pokemon, which I touched on in the post. Hopefully my post was coherent and I was able to explain why I think the Fire type might be the best offensive type in the game. I realize that Ghost, Fighting, and Ground are all incredible and have cases for the best offensive types (along with Dark they're certainly in the top 5) in my opinion. I glossed over its super effective coverage pretty quickly, but SE coverage of Grass and Steel in one typing is incredible and something that should not be taken lightly. I'd elaborate further, but I think this post is long enough. To conclude, for the reasons I explained I believe that the combined traits of several prominent STAB users, lack of resistances, great neutral coverage among STAB users, good SE coverage, and the fact that many mons carry Fire-type coverage in their own arsenals make for the best offensive typing in the tier.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading :)
 

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Hello,
(hi clone very cool post, but you forgot that the main reason heatran is good is cuz its cute)

I have two mons id like to bring up, that being Tyranitar and Nidoking.
Both are Pokemon that I've used extensively recently and have had success with, mostly because both of them pair up fairly well against the current metagame. Both are also pretty hard to check at the moment, either because of their extensive coverage or simply their checks becoming irrelevant (ie. Slowking, Blissey losing tons of usage). In the case of Nidoking, most teams in the metagame are also incredibly unprepared for it.

:ss/tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 48 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch / Assurance / Lash Out
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Punch


You can run Ice Punch on this too, but in my time using it, I havent felt the need for it. Choice Band Tyranitar is incredibly strong 2HKOing Skarmory, Corviknight AND Landorus-T, talk about a powerhouse amiright. Its weather is also a great asset (not to set it up for others but more so for itself) making it great against Hail and Rain teams alike, especially because of its ability to pressure both of their setters with its Rock-type STAB. The SpDef boost is also pretty useful for it, since with it it can act as a soft check to Dragapult, Kyurem, Heatran and Blacephalon, and a bunch of the Fire-types mentioned in the above post. It pairs exceptionally well with hazards of any kind making it a since it very easily pressures Defog-users and very much appreciates the chip its short term checks receive from them. It also really likes anything and everything that forces damage onto Buzzwole, Corviknight, Landorus-T, and Skarmory, so things like Weavile and other physical breakers are a natural fit. Tyranitar has got the ability to lose momentum easily however, which is something i personally dislike, although its not been too big a problem in my experience. Assurance and Rock Blast are alternatives over the basic STABs Ive tried and theyre both good, although I prefer the immediate power from Crunch / Stone Edge, although in teams where this isnt fully nescessary both are great options since Assurance pairs exceptionally well with Hazard Stack and Rock Blast if the team struggles with Substitute mons like Kyurem or is in need of a Arctozolt revenge killer. The EVs above are something that curiosity provided me they live a +1 Bug Buzz from Offensive Volcarona and a Choice Specs Moonblast from Tapu Lele. Choice Band Tyranitar at the moment is currently very slept on since AFAIK there havent been any major uses of it in tours, although there have been a few in high ladder gameplay. I would very much like if more people used it because in my opinion its awesome right now, and does pretty well against the metagame as a whole being a formidable breaker, soft check to a lot, and breaking gaping holes into teams that can be very easily abused.

Heres a team I made with it:
:tyranitar::weavile::ferrothorn::garchomp::tornadus-therian::tapu-fini:
CB Ttar + SD Weavile (Dark Spam)

Ruft i heard you like Nidoking

:ss/nidoking:
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam


The Kings back in business, and unlike King from OPM this guy kills his monsters himself. Nidoking is honestly great right now, the amount of teams that it 6-0's in team preview is baffling. Most teams do not prepare for it since it simply isnt used enough to warrant that, but I think its time people start using it. We've even seen Nidoking in action in a SCL game (talah vs robjr) in which, although Nidoking was not able to grab many KO's it is very apparent the amount of pressure it was putting on talah the entire game. And in my experience using it, its far more teams than just talahs team here, its pretty much every team without one of Slowking / Gastrodon / Blissey / Assault Vest Tornadus-T (which is also smth you should try it, its good now trust me) which is a LARGE majority of Bulky Offenses atm, although some are running AV Torn which can be problematic, but isnt a complete roadstop for Nidoking. Its large coverage also threatens almost every defensive threat supereffectively, in my opinion Flamethrower and Ice Beam are nescessary since replacing them gets you checked by things like Ferrothorn or Landorus-T which isnt very great. Being Knocked Off is still a great fear of Nidoking since, theres still a lot of Knock Off users in the tier. Mostly thats not been a problem for me since you can usually play around that and have something to pressure the likes of Tornadus-T so it cant double in vs Nidoking to pressure it out with Knock Off. Nidoking also has somewhat of defensive utility since although it may not have perfect defenses or HP it can switch into Heatran, Tapu Koko a few times, although its not a complete roadstop to either so... guess you cant expect much from uninvested 81/77/75. Either way, Ive found it works best with physical breakers that can pressure whatever few checks it has which usually ends up being Weavile for me, since it also likes that Nidoking can double in vs Weaviles checks and be able to fire off a free attack. Pivot spam also works pretty nicely with it since it really likes being able to switch, like trust me everytime Nidoking switches in for free it more often than not claims a kill, or at the very least, forces serious damage onto targets. Nidoking also coincidentally likes Spikes and Stealth Rocks since it can also pressure the major Defog-users of the tier being Tornadus-T, Corviknight and Landorus-T.
Heres a team I made with it:
:nidoking::weavile::ferrothorn::landorus-therian::tornadus-therian::urshifu-rapid-strike:
Nido-Weavile Offense (ft. AV Tornadus-T)

Anyway thats all I had to say ( or so I think ) See ya
:blobwizard:
 
Hello,
(hi clone very cool post, but you forgot that the main reason heatran is good is cuz its cute)

I have two mons id like to bring up, that being Tyranitar and Nidoking.
Both are Pokemon that I've used extensively recently and have had success with, mostly because both of them pair up fairly well against the current metagame. Both are also pretty hard to check at the moment, either because of their extensive coverage or simply their checks becoming irrelevant (ie. Slowking, Blissey losing tons of usage). In the case of Nidoking, most teams in the metagame are also incredibly unprepared for it.

:ss/tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 48 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch / Assurance / Lash Out
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Punch


You can run Ice Punch on this too, but in my time using it, I havent felt the need for it. Choice Band Tyranitar is incredibly strong 2HKOing Skarmory, Corviknight AND Landorus-T, talk about a powerhouse amiright. Its weather is also a great asset (not to set it up for others but more so for itself) making it great against Hail and Rain teams alike, especially because of its ability to pressure both of their setters with its Rock-type STAB. The SpDef boost is also pretty useful for it, since with it it can act as a soft check to Dragapult, Kyurem, Heatran and Blacephalon, and a bunch of the Fire-types mentioned in the above post. It pairs exceptionally well with hazards of any kind making it a since it very easily pressures Defog-users and very much appreciates the chip its short term checks receive from them. It also really likes anything and everything that forces damage onto Buzzwole, Corviknight, Landorus-T, and Skarmory, so things like Weavile and other physical breakers are a natural fit. Tyranitar has got the ability to lose momentum easily however, which is something i personally dislike, although its not been too big a problem in my experience. Assurance and Rock Blast are alternatives over the basic STABs Ive tried and theyre both good, although I prefer the immediate power from Crunch / Stone Edge, although in teams where this isnt fully nescessary both are great options since Assurance pairs exceptionally well with Hazard Stack and Rock Blast if the team struggles with Substitute mons like Kyurem or is in need of a Arctozolt revenge killer. The EVs above are something that curiosity provided me they live a +1 Bug Buzz from Offensive Volcarona and a Choice Specs Moonblast from Tapu Lele. Choice Band Tyranitar at the moment is currently very slept on since AFAIK there havent been any major uses of it in tours, although there have been a few in high ladder gameplay. I would very much like if more people used it because in my opinion its awesome right now, and does pretty well against the metagame as a whole being a formidable breaker, soft check to a lot, and breaking gaping holes into teams that can be very easily abused.

Heres a team I made with it:
:tyranitar::weavile::ferrothorn::garchomp::tornadus-therian::tapu-fini:
CB Ttar + SD Weavile (Dark Spam)

Ruft i heard you like Nidoking

:ss/nidoking:
Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam


The Kings back in business, and unlike King from OPM this guy kills his monsters himself. Nidoking is honestly great right now, the amount of teams that it 6-0's in team preview is baffling. Most teams do not prepare for it since it simply isnt used enough to warrant that, but I think its time people start using it. We've even seen Nidoking in action in a SCL game (talah vs robjr) in which, although Nidoking was not able to grab many KO's it is very apparent the amount of pressure it was putting on talah the entire game. And in my experience using it, its far more teams than just talahs team here, its pretty much every team without one of Slowking / Gastrodon / Blissey / Assault Vest Tornadus-T (which is also smth you should try it, its good now trust me) which is a LARGE majority of Bulky Offenses atm, although some are running AV Torn which can be problematic, but isnt a complete roadstop for Nidoking. Its large coverage also threatens almost every defensive threat supereffectively, in my opinion Flamethrower and Ice Beam are nescessary since replacing them gets you checked by things like Ferrothorn or Landorus-T which isnt very great. Being Knocked Off is still a great fear of Nidoking since, theres still a lot of Knock Off users in the tier. Mostly thats not been a problem for me since you can usually play around that and have something to pressure the likes of Tornadus-T so it cant double in vs Nidoking to pressure it out with Knock Off. Nidoking also has somewhat of defensive utility since although it may not have perfect defenses or HP it can switch into Heatran, Tapu Koko a few times, although its not a complete roadstop to either so... guess you cant expect much from uninvested 81/77/75. Either way, Ive found it works best with physical breakers that can pressure whatever few checks it has which usually ends up being Weavile for me, since it also likes that Nidoking can double in vs Weaviles checks and be able to fire off a free attack. Pivot spam also works pretty nicely with it since it really likes being able to switch, like trust me everytime Nidoking switches in for free it more often than not claims a kill, or at the very least, forces serious damage onto targets. Nidoking also coincidentally likes Spikes and Stealth Rocks since it can also pressure the major Defog-users of the tier being Tornadus-T, Corviknight and Landorus-T.
Heres a team I made with it:
:nidoking::weavile::ferrothorn::landorus-therian::tornadus-therian::urshifu-rapid-strike:
Nido-Weavile Offense (ft. AV Tornadus-T)

Anyway thats all I had to say ( or so I think ) See ya
:blobwizard:
BandTar is indeed a beast. I like to pair him with Slowbro for the defensive synergy and to give him a free Teleport in, especially with Future Sight. The main drawbacks Tar has are a lack of speed and Stone Edge's annoying accuracy issues, but TTar is absolutely a formidable wallbreaker worth using with the right support.
 
Hello,
(hi clone very cool post, but you forgot that the main reason heatran is good is cuz its cute)

I have two mons id like to bring up, that being Tyranitar and Nidoking.
Both are Pokemon that I've used extensively recently and have had success with, mostly because both of them pair up fairly well against the current metagame. Both are also pretty hard to check at the moment, either because of their extensive coverage or simply their checks becoming irrelevant (ie. Slowking, Blissey losing tons of usage). In the case of Nidoking, most teams in the metagame are also incredibly unprepared for it.

:ss/tyranitar:
Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 48 SpD / 168 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crunch / Assurance / Lash Out
- Stone Edge / Rock Blast
- Heavy Slam
- Fire Punch


You can run Ice Punch on this too, but in my time using it, I havent felt the need for it. Choice Band Tyranitar is incredibly strong 2HKOing Skarmory, Corviknight AND Landorus-T, talk about a powerhouse amiright. Its weather is also a great asset (not to set it up for others but more so for itself) making it great against Hail and Rain teams alike, especially because of its ability to pressure both of their setters with its Rock-type STAB. The SpDef boost is also pretty useful for it, since with it it can act as a soft check to Dragapult, Kyurem, Heatran and Blacephalon, and a bunch of the Fire-types mentioned in the above post. It pairs exceptionally well with hazards of any kind making it a since it very easily pressures Defog-users and very much appreciates the chip its short term checks receive from them. It also really likes anything and everything that forces damage onto Buzzwole, Corviknight, Landorus-T, and Skarmory, so things like Weavile and other physical breakers are a natural fit. Tyranitar has got the ability to lose momentum easily however, which is something i personally dislike, although its not been too big a problem in my experience. Assurance and Rock Blast are alternatives over the basic STABs Ive tried and theyre both good, although I prefer the immediate power from Crunch / Stone Edge, although in teams where this isnt fully nescessary both are great options since Assurance pairs exceptionally well with Hazard Stack and Rock Blast if the team struggles with Substitute mons like Kyurem or is in need of a Arctozolt revenge killer. The EVs above are something that curiosity provided me they live a +1 Bug Buzz from Offensive Volcarona and a Choice Specs Moonblast from Tapu Lele. Choice Band Tyranitar at the moment is currently very slept on since AFAIK there havent been any major uses of it in tours, although there have been a few in high ladder gameplay. I would very much like if more people used it because in my opinion its awesome right now, and does pretty well against the metagame as a whole being a formidable breaker, soft check to a lot, and breaking gaping holes into teams that can be very easily abused.
I have to agree with this. The lack of pursuit really hurt Tyranitar since it would become very fat from devouring the Dragapults running around and Spectriers from before but its stab are really nasty. The only common ones that can resist it is Garchomp and Ferrothorn, neither of which are that keen to switch into the wrong move. Urshifu could count but it's not as common as the other two thanks to its role as a breaker. Aside from Tyranitar's typing that leaves it vulnerable to pretty much all of the offensive mons, the biggest issue with Tyranitar is that stone edge is more accurate than aura sphere when your opponent uses it and is less accurate than fissure if you use it which can easily make or break a game

I do want to ask, is there anything that Tyranitar needs to outspeed?


While on it, I might as well share a little change that I did that can really mess up the opponent. I never made a post about it in detail so I'll take this one to explain why. That pokemon is of course, sharky boi






I've always spoke highly about Garchomp this generation and in the end, it really is among the best pokemon in ou. I wanna talk about the reasons why I think our sharky boi is doing so great. There are two reasons for this and they go hand in hand. Also, I've been using this as a dedicated setup sweeper because let's be real, this thing fails horribly as a dedicated wall breaker and unlike other setup sweepers, Garchomp can also act as a backup wall breaker and aid your own dedicated one thanks to swords dance, which also allows it to come online much earlier than other sweepers

First off is the reduced level of power. I think it is fair to say that current gen eight ou has a significantly lower power level when compared to last gen. This makes a huge difference and allows one of Garchomp's unique qualities, it's stats, to actually matter since without z moves, it won't be on its last legs if it is forced to eat a hit. The other quality that makes it so potent is its typing which offers some unique qualities. Now, before I continue, let's grab a snack. Only berries are available and there are only three choices. So, take your pick. :yache berry: :lum berry: :roseli berry:. If you don't like those, go buy a burger or something

Garchomp's stealth rock resistance is once again coming into play and thanks to its typing, you really cannot afford to run a choice item for most of the time. These two combined allows Chomp to have more freedom in its item choices and tailor it to beat what you want it to beat. Lefties is the standard on Garchomp but with how the meta keeps changing, I would think that it's a huge waste because one time snacks can easily allow Garchomp to go out of control. All of these are pretty are straightforward and yache berry should pretty much be obvious. Apparently gamefreak did their homework because hammerhead sharks really don't live in cold waters. With the rise of Weavile, a stray ice shard can easily spell doom for Chomp's attempt rip apart an enemy team. Well, with yache berry, you completely turn the tables against that. Garchomp's stats also play a huge role. I mean

252+ Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 284-336 (79.5 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That is after two scale shots and adamant Weavile still fails to stop Garchomp. If an opposing team's only method of dealing with Chomp is a Weavile revenge kill, they're in for a nasty surprise. Although don't do this against specs Kyurem. Its ice is literally from Antarctica and it powers thru the yache berry

While I believe yache is the best item for our sharky boi, I would say that lum is also a perfectly viable option. The most common way to not get rekt by Garchomp is by slowing it down and aside from Landorus' intimidate, the other common way is to poison it with something like a ballsy Heatran or fishing for burns with Toxapex. With lum berry, these desperate moves suddenly become completely wasted as now, Garchomp gets a swords dance and threatens to kill something or just straight up sweep. All in all, lum berry just ensures that a desperate Lando or Heatran trying to poison you won't slow you down. Compared to yache, I think lum is a better item because Weavile isn't on every team while toxic is almost always on every team

Lastly, is roseli berry. I haven't had enough experiments with this yet but scarf Lele is a thing and it revenge kills everything that isn't a scarf Kartana. Like with the other two, it should be straightforward. Stay in against a Lele murder attempt and kill it right back. Hell you can even stay in against specs variants and kill it right back. Of course, Lele isn't the only victim since you can also stay in against specs Koko and get rid of the opponent's speed control. Out of the three snacks, I would say that roseli is too specific since if you get that scale shot boost, neither of these two will be a problem but it could come in handy if the only thing standing between your team and the opponent's is that speedy fairy

However, despite these items, Garchomp almost never runs stone edge anymore which means that it is completely hard countered by Mandibuzz and Togekiss. On the other hand, Mandibuzz is incredibly rare while Togekiss is basically non existent and even if they are used, they have major opportunity costs so in the end, things aren't too bad. Despite all this, Garchomp's sweep will be stopped by choice band Rillaboom. Take note because anything that isn't banded grassy glide is not a guaranteed kill

252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 325-383 (91 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

To conclude this, the freedom of item choice Garchomp has allows one to tailor it to beat whatever your team needs to be gone and create an opening to exploit. Perhaps most important of all, is its own above average defensive stats for an offensive pokemon allows it to take even super effective hits unlike most of its fellow offensive mons and I've mentioned this in the vr but I'll add more details to it here. Let's compare it to a scenario that isn't too unreasonable to happen. Take for example, the third kick on a triple axel from a Weavile missed that Corviknight or you miscalculated your Koko's dazzling gleam on that Hippowdon. If that happens, those two are gonna die. Garchomp on the other hand, if its earthquake failed to kill that Fini, you can still eat the incoming moonblast and finish it off. I'm not saying Chomp is necessarily better since the point here is that Garchomp is more forgiving to mistakes, both your own and if its some rng nonsense. That is something that is very useful since everybody makes mistakes and while Garchomp doesn't really offer that much compared to its fellow offensive mons, this one quality can have a huge impact in the battle

While I've shared some items that makes Chomp much more threatening, it is possible that there might be more so if anyone has, share it
 
I have to agree with this. The lack of pursuit really hurt Tyranitar since it would become very fat from devouring the Dragapults running around and Spectriers from before but its stab are really nasty. The only common ones that can resist it is Garchomp and Ferrothorn, neither of which are that keen to switch into the wrong move. Urshifu could count but it's not as common as the other two thanks to its role as a breaker. Aside from Tyranitar's typing that leaves it vulnerable to pretty much all of the offensive mons, the biggest issue with Tyranitar is that stone edge is more accurate than aura sphere when your opponent uses it and is less accurate than fissure if you use it which can easily make or break a game

I do want to ask, is there anything that Tyranitar needs to outspeed?


While on it, I might as well share a little change that I did that can really mess up the opponent. I never made a post about it in detail so I'll take this one to explain why. That pokemon is of course, sharky boi






I've always spoke highly about Garchomp this generation and in the end, it really is among the best pokemon in ou. I wanna talk about the reasons why I think our sharky boi is doing so great. There are two reasons for this and they go hand in hand. Also, I've been using this as a dedicated setup sweeper because let's be real, this thing fails horribly as a dedicated wall breaker and unlike other setup sweepers, Garchomp can also act as a backup wall breaker and aid your own dedicated one thanks to swords dance, which also allows it to come online much earlier than other sweepers

First off is the reduced level of power. I think it is fair to say that current gen eight ou has a significantly lower power level when compared to last gen. This makes a huge difference and allows one of Garchomp's unique qualities, it's stats, to actually matter since without z moves, it won't be on its last legs if it is forced to eat a hit. The other quality that makes it so potent is its typing which offers some unique qualities. Now, before I continue, let's grab a snack. Only berries are available and there are only three choices. So, take your pick. :yache berry: :lum berry: :roseli berry:. If you don't like those, go buy a burger or something

Garchomp's stealth rock resistance is once again coming into play and thanks to its typing, you really cannot afford to run a choice item for most of the time. These two combined allows Chomp to have more freedom in its item choices and tailor it to beat what you want it to beat. Lefties is the standard on Garchomp but with how the meta keeps changing, I would think that it's a huge waste because one time snacks can easily allow Garchomp to go out of control. All of these are pretty are straightforward and yache berry should pretty much be obvious. Apparently gamefreak did their homework because hammerhead sharks really don't live in cold waters. With the rise of Weavile, a stray ice shard can easily spell doom for Chomp's attempt rip apart an enemy team. Well, with yache berry, you completely turn the tables against that. Garchomp's stats also play a huge role. I mean

252+ Atk Weavile Ice Shard vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 284-336 (79.5 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That is after two scale shots and adamant Weavile still fails to stop Garchomp. If an opposing team's only method of dealing with Chomp is a Weavile revenge kill, they're in for a nasty surprise. Although don't do this against specs Kyurem. Its ice is literally from Antarctica and it powers thru the yache berry

While I believe yache is the best item for our sharky boi, I would say that lum is also a perfectly viable option. The most common way to not get rekt by Garchomp is by slowing it down and aside from Landorus' intimidate, the other common way is to poison it with something like a ballsy Heatran or fishing for burns with Toxapex. With lum berry, these desperate moves suddenly become completely wasted as now, Garchomp gets a swords dance and threatens to kill something or just straight up sweep. All in all, lum berry just ensures that a desperate Lando or Heatran trying to poison you won't slow you down. Compared to yache, I think lum is a better item because Weavile isn't on every team while toxic is almost always on every team

Lastly, is roseli berry. I haven't had enough experiments with this yet but scarf Lele is a thing and it revenge kills everything that isn't a scarf Kartana. Like with the other two, it should be straightforward. Stay in against a Lele murder attempt and kill it right back. Hell you can even stay in against specs variants and kill it right back. Of course, Lele isn't the only victim since you can also stay in against specs Koko and get rid of the opponent's speed control. Out of the three snacks, I would say that roseli is too specific since if you get that scale shot boost, neither of these two will be a problem but it could come in handy if the only thing standing between your team and the opponent's is that speedy fairy

However, despite these items, Garchomp almost never runs stone edge anymore which means that it is completely hard countered by Mandibuzz and Togekiss. On the other hand, Mandibuzz is incredibly rare while Togekiss is basically non existent and even if they are used, they have major opportunity costs so in the end, things aren't too bad. Despite all this, Garchomp's sweep will be stopped by choice band Rillaboom. Take note because anything that isn't banded grassy glide is not a guaranteed kill

252+ Atk Life Orb Rillaboom Grassy Glide vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp in Grassy Terrain: 325-383 (91 - 107.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

To conclude this, the freedom of item choice Garchomp has allows one to tailor it to beat whatever your team needs to be gone and create an opening to exploit. Perhaps most important of all, is its own above average defensive stats for an offensive pokemon allows it to take even super effective hits unlike most of its fellow offensive mons and I've mentioned this in the vr but I'll add more details to it here. Let's compare it to a scenario that isn't too unreasonable to happen. Take for example, the third kick on a triple axel from a Weavile missed that Corviknight or you miscalculated your Koko's dazzling gleam on that Hippowdon. If that happens, those two are gonna die. Garchomp on the other hand, if its earthquake failed to kill that Fini, you can still eat the incoming moonblast and finish it off. I'm not saying Chomp is necessarily better since the point here is that Garchomp is more forgiving to mistakes, both your own and if its some rng nonsense. That is something that is very useful since everybody makes mistakes and while Garchomp doesn't really offer that much compared to its fellow offensive mons, this one quality can have a huge impact in the battle

While I've shared some items that makes Chomp much more threatening, it is possible that there might be more so if anyone has, share it
I personally still like running Stone Edge on Chomp because I like Stealth Rock + Swords Dance for role compression. It's not really a threat to sweep itself without Scale Shot boosts, but if it can break the opposing Defogger while keeping Rocks up it can open up holes for something else. Chomp is still easily one of the best mons in the tier and offers so much at once, and the main reason it's not standard on most teams is because of how silly and splashable Lando-T is. But it is good to think about Chomp's item, because while Leftovers is always nice, it may not be the best option depending on what Chomp is trying to do. Lum for example doesn't do much if you're running Stone Edge + EQ coverage alongside Fini, but could be very useful on other kinds of teams. And Berries that let Chomp tank a SE hit from a revenge killer or shrug off a status can be decisive in pulling off a sweep and do fit well with Chomp's offensive nature and respectable defenses.
Edit: Speaking of YacheChomp, Yache Berry letting you tank random Ice Punches and the like while chipping away at checks with Rough Skin is so satisfying. Breaking a mostly healthy defensive Buzzwole like this is a nice feeling. [Gen 8] OU replay: YOungarcinine vs. heavylobster43 - Pokémon Showdown (pokemonshowdown.com)
 
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I personally still like running Stone Edge on Chomp because I like Stealth Rock + Swords Dance for role compression. It's not really a threat to sweep itself without Scale Shot boosts, but if it can break the opposing Defogger while keeping Rocks up it can open up holes for something else. Chomp is still easily one of the best mons in the tier and offers so much at once, and the main reason it's not standard on most teams is because of how silly and splashable Lando-T is. But it is good to think about Chomp's item, because while Leftovers is always nice, it may not be the best option depending on what Chomp is trying to do. Lum for example doesn't do much if you're running Stone Edge + EQ coverage alongside Fini, but could be very useful on other kinds of teams. And Berries that let Chomp tank a SE hit from a revenge killer or shrug off a status can be decisive in pulling off a sweep and do fit well with Chomp's offensive nature and respectable defenses.
Yeah I was talking about sweeper Chomp. Imo, the sd edgequake sr set on Garchomp is very hard to justify. Without life orb, you don't two shot Corviknight which is a huge issue and we all know how horrible stone edge accuracy is if you're the one using it. Aside from tank chomp, which I still don't get the point since there is no more Cinderace to bully, the only good rocks Garchomp is mixed since it doesn't need to set up and can reliably get rid of all defoggers not named boots Tornadus

That's why I just resorted to using Garchomp as the main sweeper on my teams because it can really be hard to stop and it benefits from every wall breaker in the tier. Other setup sweepers like Dragonite or Volcarona just require far more support than Garchomp does and even pokemon that rely on their natural speed to sweep such as Pult, Koko and Weavile don't have the freedom of item that Garchomp has nor are they as capable of eating strong hits

Personally, I find Landorus and offensive Garchomp to be distinguishable enough that I legit use them on every single team on the slots of utility and dedicated sweeper respectively, unless of course my team that vulnerable to a certain threat in which case I replace Lando with another mon, usually Heatran. On how I build my teams, I can usually afford another mon for speed control which can also act as a backup sweeper. Usually this is Dragapult because Pult is crazy good but as a setup sweeper, I just don't think any mon is gonna top Garchomp's consistency
 

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