Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion Thread v7 (Usage Stats in post #3539)

[Pabloaram]

yeah, I agree its really good,and currently maybe the best iteration of stall(the level of tuning its creator put into it is just out of this world), not playing it is mostly just personal preference, since I personally prefer teams that have a 60% chance to beat everything(or close to), rather than having 100% against some teams, and 30% against others


this set is pretty neat, but it relies on opposing heatran being flash fire AND not having heavy slam, which is not guaranteed, and once your baloon is popped it cannot reliably do normal ditto stuff. it still has its place tho(namely pp stalling corvi anf the likes).
few notes here: it runs full spa investment if it ever copies FS, and it needs to be shiny to force opposing dittos to transform into it to reduce transform pp to 5

You dont care of ditto evs bc you coppy the same stat of the other mon

 

[glava222]

You dont care of ditto evs bc you coppy the same stat of the other mon

If you copy FS, it will do damage according to your current special attack, even if the ditto is in the back of the team, the special attack investment will make your admittedly still puny FS go off ditto's base special attack

 

[Negative Charge]

I'm a big fan of Aerial Ace on Choiced Kartana. Smart Strike isn't accomplishing much in the current meta and not much is lost by dropping it.

• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 356-420 (114.4 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 354-418 (94.9 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 380-448 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (this spread is what is currently posted on the writeup)
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 312-368 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Try it.

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

I'm a big fan of Aerial Ace on Choiced Kartana. Smart Strike isn't accomplishing much in the current meta and not much is lost by dropping it.

• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volcarona: 356-420 (114.4 - 135%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Volcarona: 354-418 (94.9 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Buzzwole: 380-448 (96.6 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (this spread is what is currently posted on the writeup)
• 252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 312-368 (74.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Try it.

I think Smart Strike still has a lot of viability in the current meta; hitting Clefable, Tapu Lele, Tapu Bulu (worth mentioning since it's rising right now), and fairies, in general, are definitely still fantastic reasons to use it, and keep in mind Smart Strike still gets a STAB boost, so its power is in another league compared to Aerial Ace for other threats that may switch in. In addition, presumably, Volcarona would be switching into Kartana, which means that even being able to use Aerial Ace on a choice set requires extra prediction that your opponent will switch straight into Volc instead of just sacrificing the Pokemon they have out, or switching to a bulkier Pokemon to absorb one of Kartana's predicted STABS. If your Kartana reveals its Aerial Ace when it takes down a mon, the opponent isn't going to bring out Volcarona, it's going to bring out a Steel-type or something that doesn't mind a non-STAB boosted Aerial Ace. Basically, you're relying on your opponent to make an assumption about Kartana, when the situation needed to make your opponent have to make that assumption is 50/50 at best.

That being said, Aerial Ace is a pretty interesting tech in concept, even if it's on the super-niche side. Alternatively at that point, if you really don't want to use Smart Strike and want a more niche option, why not Psycho Cut instead? While it doesn't hit Volcarona super effectively, it still hits Buzzwole super effectively, has a boosted crit rate that can bypass Buzzwole's Bulk Up boosts, and also comes with some additional advantages (like hitting Toxapex and Hawlucha super effectively), in addition to having 10 more base power than Aerial Ace. Aerial Ace may hit Buzzwole for quad damage and hit Volc super effectively and a couple of other Pokemon (like Rillaboom), but it really doesn't do "more" than that to justify the 60 base power without an ability.

 

[actuallybad]

That being said, Aerial Ace is a pretty interesting tech in concept, even if it's on the super-niche side. Alternatively at that point, if you really don't want to use Smart Strike and want a more niche option, why not Psycho Cut instead? While it doesn't hit Volcarona super effectively, it still hits Buzzwole super effectively, has a boosted crit rate that can bypass Buzzwole's Bulk Up boosts, and also comes with some additional advantages (like hitting Toxapex and Hawlucha super effectively), in addition to having 10 more base power than Aerial Ace. Aerial Ace may hit Buzzwole for quad damage and hit Volc super effectively and a couple of other Pokemon (like Rillaboom), but it really doesn't do "more" than that to justify the 60 base power without an ability.

Why not Psycho Cut? This is why:

252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Psycho Cut vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Buzzwole: 180-214 (43 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

And who cares about its matchup vs Toxapex when Leaf Blade has overwhelming odds to 2HKO anyways? Aerial Ace hits Hawlucha, too. Psycho Cut is absolutely not worth running over Aerial Ace.

 

[pulsar512b]

This discussion on King's Rock in this thread is unbearable. A vast majority of you simply do not have a sufficient grasp on the topic to be arguing either way. There will be no further posts on this topic effective immediately -- I will be deleting and infracting those who break this rule.

BONK

anyway
A tech that's been cropping up more and more as of late is adamant LO weavile, in order to always OHKO corviknight at +2. How do yall feel about this?

calcs to show:
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 279-333 (69.7 - 83.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 363-432 (90.7 - 108%) -- approx. 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 399-471 (99.7 - 117.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO


My personal take is that if you have other pult checks and it's a fairly offensive team, you can get away with this, but it should not be the norm at all.

 

[Finchinator]

Just a reminder: following simple instructions is prerequisite for posting in this thread.

 

[IBZ]

A tech that's been cropping up more and more as of late is adamant LO weavile, in order to always OHKO corviknight at +2. How do yall feel about this?

calcs to show:
+2 252 Atk Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 279-333 (69.7 - 83.2%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 363-432 (90.7 - 108%) -- approx. 43.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Corviknight: 399-471 (99.7 - 117.7%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO


My personal take is that if you have other pult checks and it's a fairly offensive team, you can get away with this, but it should not be the norm at all.

Yeah I like adamant LO weavile too
At +2 it also near guarantees the OHKO vs physically defensive pex when you have 3 layers of spikes or rocks + 1 spike

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 227-269 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes

Being outsped by Torn T, Lati twins and Gengar doesn't matter too much. Latis and Gengar aren't too common anyway and Torn T gets smashed by +2 ice shard even if it puts some speed EVs into defence.

However, life orb + the lack of HDB means that if you want Weavile to stick around you need to make sure that you're not wasting your attacking turns, and also that hazards are kept off the field, which can be kinda difficult with the rise of smack down rocks lando to beat corv.

I think fini is a great partner for this kind of weavile (while also being a great mon in general) bc it gives you defog and also a great check to pult.

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast (Your preference of Accuracy v Power, I prefer Flamethrower)
- Knock Off
- Psychic​

I've been having a good amount of fun with this set lately, Blacephalon hits like an absolute truck on the Special side (with a neutral nature his Special Attack is 401 here) and Beast Boost is an insane ability, but people tend to forget about Blacephalon's still fantastic base 127 physical attack, 127! To put this into perspective, Garchomp has 130 base attack, Blacephalon has only three fewer base attack points than Garchomp. Which means that with only 4 EVs, he has 291 Attack. Meaning you can cripple Special Walls for days while wearing them down with repeated powerful attacks once you Knock Off their item.

Blacephalon's Ghost and Fire STABs are great in the current meta, and 344 Speed with a Naive nature is definitely serviceable. Having Psychic (or Psyshock if you need it) as coverage alongside Knock Off is also fantastic as well). One of BL's forgotten and underestimated treasures imo.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast (Your preference of Accuracy v Power, I prefer Flamethrower)
- Knock Off
- Psychic​

I've been having a good amount of fun with this set lately, Blacephalon hits like an absolute truck on the Special side (with a neutral nature his Special Attack is 401 here) and Beast Boost is an insane ability, but people tend to forget about Blacephalon's still fantastic base 127 physical attack, 127! To put this into perspective, Garchomp has 130 base attack, Blacephalon has only three fewer base attack points than Garchomp. Which means that with only 4 EVs, he has 291 Attack. Meaning you can cripple Special Walls for days while wearing them down with repeated powerful attacks once you Knock Off their item.

Blacephalon's Ghost and Fire STABs are great in the current meta, and 344 Speed with a Hasty nature is definitely serviceable. Having Psychic (or Psyshock if you need it) as coverage alongside Knock Off is also fantastic as well). One of BL's forgotten and underestimated treasures imo.

Thing is blacephalon while a nuke is not gonna be doing much damage against teams with good enough prep since they can just pivot around it and force it out forcing it to take a lot of stealth rock damage and life orb recoil. Its hasty nature also hurts it as it cannot take bullet punches, ice shard's and weak resisted hits as well as it wants to as well

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

Thing is blacephalon while a nuke is not gonna be doing much damage against teams with good enough prep since they can just pivot around it and force it out forcing it to take a lot of stealth rock damage and life orb recoil. Its hasty nature also hurts it as it cannot take bullet punches, ice shard's and weak resisted hits as well as it wants to as well

Good point on the nature part, swapped Hasty out for Naive instead. However, the whole surprise factor is its surprisingly high physical attack being used here. The whole point of this set is to hit like a truck, snowball boosts, and lure in Special Walls to cripple them with Knock Off.

 

[Deleted User 464209]

No Ability Tapu Fini

weavile a nerd (Tapu Fini) @ Leftovers / Booties
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Sleep Talk / Iron Defense
- Scald
- Moonblast

Looks dumb, but I think there's some legitimacy to this set given that there's an Urshifu or Weavile on every single team, and you can completely blank those teams with RestTalk Fini. You'll obviously need more backup vs Heatran and Dragapult when using this, but I think this is pretty nice. Also gets benefit from grassy terrain, which is dandy.

Be the change you want to see:

 | Abilities                              |
| Misty Surge 99.927%                    |
| Telepathy  0.073%

"I just need to chip Fini with Landorus and then urshifu wins..."
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1381993633-9gnwmva803dxm09fw8a5flv9ajx8aaspw

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

Ribombee

I'm back again with another unconventional pick, but this has probably been my favorite lower-tier Pokemon to use in OU over the last couple of days. So, why would I use Rimbombee in OU? It's PU for a reason, right? Absolutely understandable why on the surface, its Special Attack seems lackluster compared to the Pokemon it's competing against, and its Bug / Fairy type combination is a mixed bag both offensively or defensively thanks to common weaknesses to types like Flying and Rock, along with 25% chip. However, Ribombee has some absolutely crucial tools that give it a unique role compression niche of being both a physical attacker lure along with a reliable webs setter that is immune to Fake Out and King's Rock flinches. Let's look at some of Ribombee's strengths.

Ribombee Positives:​

- Has access to the unique combination of Sticky Web and Trick (or Switcheroo if you so choose), which only Orbeetle has (and due to his stats cannot take advantage of this).
- Base 124 speed is higher than most of OU and hits crucial speed tiers, only being outsped by Weavile (if it has a Jolly nature, not Adamant), Dragapult, Tapu Koko, and Zeraora, meaning it's the fastest Sticky Web user in the game and faster than most Pokemon it tries to Trick.
- Ribombee's ability Shield Dust means that it cannot be affected by Fake Out leads or faster Pokemon holding King's Rock (in addition to being immune to secondary effects from moves that cause secondary statuses), and the only faster Pokemon with Taunt is Tapu Koko, meaning Ribombee is almost assured to get Sticky Webs up with very rare exceptions. This also means that it's more reliable than Shuckle at getting Webs up.
- Access to Trick with that base speed stat means that Ribombee means with an item such as Flame Orb, Ribombee can usually both set up webs and cripple an opposing physical attacker (or Pokemon in general depending on the item you Trick over)
- Bug / Fairy typing has specific but very strong situational uses in OU's metagame, being immune to Dragon-type attacks, along with resisting Ground, Fighting, Bug, Grass, and Dark, which are all extremely common attacking types in the metagame and help to offset Ribombee's lack of bulk with some decent defensive utility.
- Ribombee has access to a wide variety of additional useful support tools such as Roost, Aromatherapy, Quiver Dance, Defog, Infestation, Tailwind, Toxic, Light Screen, Fake Tears, Reflect, Stun Spore, and U-Turn. If you wish to go offensively, Quiver Dance sets can be deadly with Moonblast, Bug Buzz, and Energy Ball maiming most of the tier super effectively.
- STAB Moonblast hits harder than you think it does, and means a lot of Pokemon may be switched in carelessly, or it would make a more seasoned opponent question their switch-in if they have knowledge of damage calculations, meaning you're put at an advantage if you use the prediction correctly.

Ribombee @ Flame Orb
Ability: Shield Dust
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Trick
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy / Roost / Tailwind / U-Turn​

The set is pretty straightforward, set up Webs or cripple a predicted incoming physical attacker such as Garchomp with Trick and Flame Orb, once you've done these steps, this will put you in a prime position to take advantage of your opponent's double trouble. Moonblast is there for a reliable attacking move in the unlikely event that you get Taunted before you can get your Webs or Trick set off, and Moonblast will still hit certain Pokemon decently hard even with only 8 EVs invested.

8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 436-516 (119.1 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Urshifu-Rapid-Strike: 300-354 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragapult: 252-296 (79.4 - 93.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 228-270 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 144 SpD Mandibuzz: 180-212 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 224-266 (79.7 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
8 SpA Ribombee Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hawlucha: 288-338 (96.9 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

The last move slot is dependent on your team's specific needs. If you need a cleric, run Aromatherapy, if you need to keep Ribombee around for longer, run Roost, if you want to boost up the speed of other members of your team, run Tailwind, if you want to bee-line it out of there on a predicted switch, run U-Turn. Ribombee has plenty of fantastic options to choose from other than the four I listed, and you could slot in either another support or offensive move of your choice.

Team Support Options​

Ribombee absolutely appreciates Rapid Spin support from Pokemon such as Excadrill or Regieleki as if you're not running Roost, Ribombee can be worn down quickly, and utilizing Defog isn't exactly wise when you're trying to keep Webs up on the opponent's side of the field. In addition, Ribombee partners well with Pokemon such as Heatran, as it covers a lot of Ribombee's weak spots and the two can even double hazard set in tandem with one another (I've personally found that both Scarf Heatran and Magma Storm Rocks Heatran are fantastic in particular when it comes to Ribombee). Garchomp is another fantastic partner for the same reason, it resists Rock-type moves (which are the most commonly brought out to deal with against Ribombee), and it punishes Physical attackers with bulkier sets, Rough Skin and Rocky Helmet (while also having the potential to do the same double hazard shtick that I talked about with Heatran). Regenerator Pokemon such as Toxapex, Slowbro, Slowking, and Galarian Slowking are also great options as they each can take care of different needs that Ribombee would have trouble with (Haze Toxapex stops setup sweepers for example).

If you need a cute little bee to tear apart Dragons and cripple your opponent's team, consider Ribombee!

 

[Ctann]

xXxJenniferxXx love the ribombee suggestion, a few things come to mind

• due to being very close to hitting important KO benchmarks, you can reduce speed EVs a little to our speed tornadus, and put the balance into spA. This lets you have better odds when revenging urshifu/Garchomp/adamant Weavile/etc
• Ribombee typically needs to show up earlier in a match. This is obviously very predictable, so a lot of teams will be able to play around it, e.g. u turn lead, switch out to corviknight
• Because of the fact that ribombee is super predictable, and almost every steel type can come in, example corviknight, heatran, I found the most success with u turn and a mono attack (moonblast)
• Flame orb is fun, but it’s kinda awkward where you want to use it as early as possible, when you can still bluff a focus sashed Webster, and burning a corviknight or toxapex or another common switch in is pretty cool, but a mispredict and the set is revealed and suddenly its a 5v6, where seeing ribombee is an easy switch in for their resist.
• Three attacks is too easy to find resists for, the quoted 3: buzz/energy ball/moon last are all resisted by fire, steel and poison types. It’s also very easy to find switch ins
• Mono attacking is decent because it threatens revenge against the threats you listed, and that leaves 2 options for status moves. Webs are very good, but not super essential, truck and stunspore is a nice combo to buy some hax. I can’t think of many Pokémon to revenge with bug buzz or energy ball that are worth sacking utility from u turn, status moves, or webs. U turn is my favourite because it performs against all teams, even ones with blissey/aromatherapy/heatran to absorb status or moves. Just run things that love getting a free turn on these. Max speed Conkeldurr was a fun UU threat that got me to top 30 OU with ribombee in the past
• 
  
  
• In short, spreading paralysis, maybe squeezing in a web, or tricking a key switch in are cool. Your moves have to plan for the extremely common switch ins.
• Ribombee is like a whimsicott with slightly less status options to Harrass a team, but with webs.

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

xXxJenniferxXx love the ribombee suggestion, a few things come to mind

• due to being very close to hitting important KO benchmarks, you can reduce speed EVs a little to our speed tornadus, and put the balance into spA. This lets you have better odds when revenging urshifu/Garchomp/adamant Weavile/etc
• Ribombee typically needs to show up earlier in a match. This is obviously very predictable, so a lot of teams will be able to play around it, e.g. u turn lead, switch out to corviknight
• Because of the fact that ribombee is super predictable, and almost every steel type can come in, example corviknight, heatran, I found the most success with u turn and a mono attack (moonblast)
• Flame orb is fun, but it’s kinda awkward where you want to use it as early as possible, when you can still bluff a focus sashed Webster, and burning a corviknight or toxapex or another common switch in is pretty cool, but a mispredict and the set is revealed and suddenly its a 5v6, where seeing ribombee is an easy switch in for their resist.
• Three attacks is too easy to find resists for, the quoted 3: buzz/energy ball/moon last are all resisted by fire, steel and poison types. It’s also very easy to find switch ins
• Mono attacking is decent because it threatens revenge against the threats you listed, and that leaves 2 options for status moves. Webs are very good, but not super essential, truck and stunspore is a nice combo to buy some hax. I can’t think of many Pokémon to revenge with bug buzz or energy ball that are worth sacking utility from u turn, status moves, or webs. U turn is my favourite because it performs against all teams, even ones with blissey/aromatherapy/heatran to absorb status or moves. Just run things that love getting a free turn on these. Max speed Conkeldurr was a fun UU threat that got me to top 30 OU with ribombee in the past
• 
  
  
• In short, spreading paralysis, maybe squeezing in a web, or tricking a key switch in are cool. Your moves have to plan for the extremely common switch ins.
• Ribombee is like a whimsicott with slightly less status options to Harrass a team, but with webs.

These are all extremely good points, and for the most part, I agree! The main reason I've been using Webs was that my team composition is reliant on it, but the approach you're talking about also seems far better for teams that aren't geared for webs (aka a lot of them), for reference I was actually also running Banded Scrappy Sirfetch'd on this current Webs team.

I'm gonna see if I can run the Ribombee you're talking about on another one of my teams that needs it, thanks for your post!

 

[Da stall masta 999]

Not trying to interrupt any topics y’all are discussing but I wanted to do a little experiment. I’ve been wanting to know for a while what stall team is most efficient based on the usage of their auto lose matchups, so I took some teams which represented a good range of stall builds, looked on Pikanalytics, and posted the results here.

So here’s how it’s going to work. I’m going to list some teams which I’m going to look at, find their auto lose matchups, and find the probability of running into one. These weaknesses can be combinations, or specific threats. The team with the lowest probability will be the most efficient, and the team with the highest will be the least efficient. For quality purposes, I ignored any stall style/team weak to Heatran because a stall that’s weak to Heatran is bad. I also ignored any hazard weak stall teams because Corviknight is also common. I’m going to be explaining how I picked the threats for each one.

(I’m not going to factor in taunt NP Tornadus, Crawdaunt, Adamant LO Weavile, Arctozolt, and other stall matchups that 90% of stalls are weak to. Some of these threats are dropping in viability like Crawdaunt, but others like Arctozolt are rising.)

If a threat can be safely played around in some way, I won’t add it to the list. These Pokémon may force non locked matchups (matchups where it’s possible for your team to be broke), but it will not be completely impossible for you to win against them. I may make another post including these threats that can be played around but for now, I want to keep only the ones where if your opponent doesn’t make any mistakes, they will win. Now, here are the teams.


Teams

AV Reun stall by ??? (random team that I saw win crazy matchups)
- Safety Googles Shedinja stall by Htcl
- ABR hazard stack (Not a stall team but it has 5 stall mons.)
- Kyurem semi stall by Pierrick
- Blimax spam team
- Thats quite unfor Shedinja stall
- Quaglover stall
- Umbreon stall by PedroGreg

Again, I’m going to be explaining every auto lose matchup I find for each team. Keep in mind, there are many team combinations that can force non locked matchups against them, but as long as you don’t run into an auto lose matchup, you still have a good chance of beating them. Alright now let’s finally get into the threats for each.

AV Reun Stall - (whirlpool)

There isn‘t much to criticize about this stall team. Future sight is beaten, and things like Hex Twave Dragapult are able to be played around with AV Reun and Spdef Pex. Howevef, it has an iffy MU against Dracozolt, Whirlpool Fini, and Thundurus-T.

Safety Googles Shedinja Stall - (taunt)

Another good one. I’d say Moltres is enough to beat Heatran since it can defog the rocks and force it out. Hyper offense is a problem since you can’t defog the hazards, but other than that it seems fine. (Banded ttar and SD Bulu are winnable matchups with leftovers clef and pressure corv for the stone edges. Not going to factor those.)

ABR Hazard Stack -

Many difficult matchups are winnable by using Koko to venge kill. It keeps the offensive pressure but falls a little short against some setup like Cloyster. Screen Pex beats future sight and Scizor beats Kyurem and Lele. Rocky helmet is clearly better here for Skarmory so Magnezone is a problem.

Kyurem semi stall- (Specs and CB)

Solid team when it comes to most matchups, but it loses to specs Kyurem and Lele. Banded ttar is also a problem because it forces a Torn T and Kyurem out, and it can really slow it down. Sub roost Kyurem handles future sight.

Blimax spam team - (both banded)

I may be biased on this one but if you play correctly and ultilize Tornadus-T and Hippowdon, you can beat all forms of Future Sight. It loses to banded melm and ttar, but the other weaknesses can be played around or venge killed.

Shedinja Stall - + or

There’s not really much to say about this stall team. It loses to hail and sand setters like normal Shedinja stall teams. Hazards can still be overwhelming at times and SD Kartana is a threat, but these can be played around.

Quag lover stall- (Whirlpool)

This team loses to future sight and mew hyper offense. How does that preform? Let’s see.

Umbreon Stall -

Super good stall team. Taunt Mew here is excellent, the sweep prevention is good, but it loses to Kyurem and Lele.

RNG Calcs (1695+ stats)

Mon MU RNG is in the order that I listed them

(2) AV Reun - 2.3%, 2.36%, 0.88%
(3) SG Shedinja stall - 2.3%, 4.27%
(7) ABR Hazard stack - 8.34%, 5.43%
(5) Kyurem semi stall - 5.26%, 4.89% , 1.55%
(1) Blimax spam team - 2.46%, 1.55%
(4) Shedinja Stall - 6.21%, (less than 0.40% for both) , 2.96%
(8) Quag lover stall - 8.22% , 5.87% , 8.81% , 2.36% , 4.27%
(6) Umbreon stall - 4.89% , 5.26% , 2.3%

So those are the RNG stats for a fighting chance of winning for each team. There’s a lot to talk about here but if you do the math, the Quag lover stall is the least efficient, and the Blimax spam team is the most efficient (if you don’t count it as future sight weak). Letme know if I got anything wrong. I rounded the values to the nearest hundredth.

Result Analysis

What really surprised me was how much future sight factored in. Even if you can’t beat Urshifu + future sight, you need something that can beat everything else because it’s huge and almost as important as dealing with Heatran. Addtionally, Magnezone, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem also make a big factor in the RNG to win a game, so don’t ignore those.

So when building a stall team, you should try to have a way to beat Kyurem and Lele, future sight, Magnezone, and constant hazard stacking. The top 4 (except the safety goggles Shedinja stall) deal with all of these. The ones at the bottom however lack on checking these things and have higher RNG to win a game.

It’s really nice how even the teams at the bottom of this experiment are still good against most of the meta, and stall is definitely proven to be a lot better now. So that’s all I’m going to say about this for now. If you have any other thoughts, let me know! Try this on your own stall teams if you want.

Also let me know if you happen to find a stall/semi stall team better than the top 2 ones for this experiment. Would greatly appreciate it and I’d love to look at them!

Happy stalling!

 

[Finchinator]

Survey results are up -- and no, this is not an opening to begin discussing King's Rock again. Thanks to everyone who participated and have a great day!

 

[Myzozoa]

Not trying to interrupt any topics y’all are discussing but I wanted to do a little experiment. I’ve been wanting to know for a while what stall team is most efficient based on the usage of their auto lose matchups, so I took some teams which represented a good range of stall builds, looked on Pikanalytics, and posted the results here.

So here’s how it’s going to work. I’m going to list some teams which I’m going to look at, find their auto lose matchups, and find the probability of running into one. These weaknesses can be combinations, or specific threats. The team with the lowest probability will be the most efficient, and the team with the highest will be the least efficient. For quality purposes, I ignored any stall style/team weak to Heatran because a stall that’s weak to Heatran is bad. I also ignored any hazard weak stall teams because Corviknight is also common. I’m going to be explaining how I picked the threats for each one.

(I’m not going to factor in taunt NP Tornadus, Crawdaunt, Adamant LO Weavile, Arctozolt, and other stall matchups that 90% of stalls are weak to. Some of these threats are dropping in viability like Crawdaunt, but others like Arctozolt are rising.)

If a threat can be safely played around in some way, I won’t add it to the list. These Pokémon may force non locked matchups (matchups where it’s possible for your team to be broke), but it will not be completely impossible for you to win against them. I may make another post including these threats that can be played around but for now, I want to keep only the ones where if your opponent doesn’t make any mistakes, they will win. Now, here are the teams.


Teams

AV Reun stall by ??? (random team that I saw win crazy matchups)
- Safety Googles Shedinja stall by Htcl
- ABR hazard stack (Not a stall team but it has 5 stall mons.)
- Kyurem semi stall by Pierrick
- Blimax spam team
- Thats quite unfor Shedinja stall
- Quaglover stall
- Umbreon stall by PedroGreg

Again, I’m going to be explaining every auto lose matchup I find for each team. Keep in mind, there are many team combinations that can force non locked matchups against them, but as long as you don’t run into an auto lose matchup, you still have a good chance of beating them. Alright now let’s finally get into the threats for each.

AV Reun Stall - (whirlpool)

There isn‘t much to criticize about this stall team. Future sight is beaten, and things like Hex Twave Dragapult are able to be played around with AV Reun and Spdef Pex. Howevef, it has an iffy MU against Dracozolt, Whirlpool Fini, and Thundurus-T.

Safety Googles Shedinja Stall - (taunt)

Another good one. I’d say Moltres is enough to beat Heatran since it can defog the rocks and force it out. Hyper offense is a problem since you can’t defog the hazards, but other than that it seems fine. (Banded ttar and SD Bulu are winnable matchups with leftovers clef and pressure corv for the stone edges. Not going to factor those.)

ABR Hazard Stack -

Many difficult matchups are winnable by using Koko to venge kill. It keeps the offensive pressure but falls a little short against some setup like Cloyster. Screen Pex beats future sight and Scizor beats Kyurem and Lele. Rocky helmet is clearly better here for Skarmory so Magnezone is a problem.

Kyurem semi stall- (Specs and CB)

Solid team when it comes to most matchups, but it loses to specs Kyurem and Lele. Banded ttar is also a problem because it forces a Torn T and Kyurem out, and it can really slow it down. Sub roost Kyurem handles future sight.

Blimax spam team - (both banded)

I may be biased on this one but if you play correctly and ultilize Tornadus-T and Hippowdon, you can beat all forms of Future Sight. It loses to banded melm and ttar, but the other weaknesses can be played around or venge killed.

Shedinja Stall - + or

There’s not really much to say about this stall team. It loses to hail and sand setters like normal Shedinja stall teams. Hazards can still be overwhelming at times and SD Kartana is a threat, but these can be played around.

Quag lover stall- (Whirlpool)

This team loses to future sight and mew hyper offense. How does that preform? Let’s see.

Umbreon Stall -

Super good stall team. Taunt Mew here is excellent, the sweep prevention is good, but it loses to Kyurem and Lele.

RNG Calcs (1695+ stats)

Mon MU RNG is in the order that I listed them

(2) AV Reun - 2.3%, 2.36%, 0.88%
(3) SG Shedinja stall - 2.3%, 4.27%
(7) ABR Hazard stack - 8.34%, 5.43%
(5) Kyurem semi stall - 5.26%, 4.89% , 1.55%
(1) Blimax spam team - 2.46%, 1.55%
(4) Shedinja Stall - 6.21%, (less than 0.40% for both) , 2.96%
(8) Quag lover stall - 8.22% , 5.87% , 8.81% , 2.36% , 4.27%
(6) Umbreon stall - 4.89% , 5.26% , 2.3%

So those are the RNG stats for a fighting chance of winning for each team. There’s a lot to talk about here but if you do the math, the Quag lover stall is the least efficient, and the Blimax spam team is the most efficient (if you don’t count it as future sight weak). Letme know if I got anything wrong. I rounded the values to the nearest hundredth.

Result Analysis

What really surprised me was how much future sight factored in. Even if you can’t beat Urshifu + future sight, you need something that can beat everything else because it’s huge and almost as important as dealing with Heatran. Addtionally, Magnezone, Tapu Lele, and Kyurem also make a big factor in the RNG to win a game, so don’t ignore those.

So when building a stall team, you should try to have a way to beat Kyurem and Lele, future sight, Magnezone, and constant hazard stacking. The top 4 (except the safety goggles Shedinja stall) deal with all of these. The ones at the bottom however lack on checking these things and have higher RNG to win a game.

It’s really nice how even the teams at the bottom of this experiment are still good against most of the meta, and stall is definitely proven to be a lot better now. So that’s all I’m going to say about this for now. If you have any other thoughts, let me know! Try this on your own stall teams if you want.

Also let me know if you happen to find a stall/semi stall team better than the top 2 ones for this experiment. Would greatly appreciate it and I’d love to look at them!

Happy stalling!

SD adamant Landorus-t with max attack and smack down has a pretty decent chance to give an autolose to nearly all stall teams listed in your post (and that ABR team is absolutely a stall team as traditional as any on the list, and a very good one). This set is kind of hard to fit onto non-screens teams, but you will always be one crit on unaware clefable away from an outright win or one or two predicts away from causing unaware clefable to run out of softboiled pp, so if you follow it up with another pokemon that is only covered by their clefable you have a good chance of cheesing these matchups.

 

[Deleted User 464209]

Da stall masta 999 can you please describe your methods a but more? At the beginning of you post, you mention you'd be looking at the chance to encounter various pokemon, but, later, you describe the "math" as the "RNG stats for a fighting chance of winning".

If the latter, how is that being determined?

 

[Da stall masta 999]

Da stall masta 999 can you please describe your methods a but more? At the beginning of you post, you mention you'd be looking at the chance to encounter various pokemon, but, later, you describe the "math" as the "RNG stats for a fighting chance of winning".

If the latter, how is that being determined?

I got the values for the RNG stats pretty much all on Pikanalytics. If the auto lose matchup was a single pokemon by itself like Heatran for example, it would be the entire Pokémon’s usage which is 20.53% for Heatran. So another example, Dracozolt which is listed a few times, would be 2.3% since that’s its usage, and it’s an auto lose matchup for team.

If the auto lose matchup is not a Pokemon by itself, but a specific set on it, I would multiply a key move on the set being used by the total Pokémon’s usage. To show how this works, let’s take hyper offense Mew for example. Mew itself has a usage of 7.19%, but the team loses to hyper offense Mew with taunt, not every single viable Mew set. So we multiply the usage of taunt on Mew (which is 59.45%), by the total usage of Mew and we get a 4.27% chance to run into hyper offense Mew in total.

There weren’t a lot of combinations because I only picked teams that could tolerate hazards to some extent, but in addition to that Pokémon or specific set for that Pokémon, we just multiply it by the teammate’s usage. But this doesn’t work, right? For example, Landorus-T may be used with Corviknight more than Corviknight is used with Landorus-T. So what do we do? Well, the larger value would obviously be more reliable since it’s the more likely chance anyway, but for the combination I calced (which would be Hippowdon + Specs Lele or Kyurem), I just estimated since it wouldn’t be that much since specs Lele is 5.26%, and Hippowdon as a partner isn’t even listed so at worst I would assume 10%. But I highly doubt specifically specs Lele is used that much with Hippowdon so I just put 0.40%. It’s hard to get an exact number for these types of combinations but in short, it can’t be more than about 0.50%.

SD adamant Landorus-t with max attack and smack down has a pretty decent chance to give an autolose to nearly all stall teams listed in your post (and that ABR team is absolutely a stall team as traditional as any on the list, and a very good one). This set is kind of hard to fit onto non-screens teams, but you will always be one crit on unaware clefable away from an outright win or one or two predicts away from causing unaware clefable to run out of softboiled pp, so if you follow it up with another pokemon that is only covered by their clefable you have a good chance of cheesing these matchups.

Yes let’s add smack down max atk Landorus-T to some of them, but it’s kinda complicated. Just add the entire set right? No, in reality it would be much harder to figure exactly how to add this.

Smack down Adamant Landorus-T has about a 6.6% chance to 2HKO Clef each time on the switch when you check it with your steelbird (not counting leftovers).
252+ Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 171-202 (43.4 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO

And looking at crits to break past Clefable, there would be about a 44% chance of surviving all 16 earthquakes with no crit not including leftovers and occasional predictions you can make to Skarmory/Corviknight.

But what about soft sand?

Soft sand obviously breaks past Clefable, but since it can’t heal you can venge kill it unless it’s double dance no substitute.
252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And if it hasn’t set up yet with substitute, Chomp can run a little bit more speed and trade for it by using toxic. Umbreon can also trade for it and OHKO with Foul Play at +2.

+2 252+ Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 12 Def Landorus-Therian: 399-469 (125 - 147%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Umbreon: 313-370 (79.4 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So there’s a lot that I need to value in here for smack down Landorus-T but it can take down a lot of them with the right set. Thanks for pointing it out! I may decide to make it all just soft sand Landorus-T. I’m still figuring out what to do here.

 

[xXxJenniferxXx]

Hey everyone, I'm back again with another niche Pokemon that I've had a lot of OU success with lately, Amoonguss.

Amoonguss

You're probably thinking, why use this Pokemon in OU? Hello, Toxapex, anyone? While Toxapex is admittedly far better than Amoonguss in a general sense (base stats come to mind more than anything here), but Toxapex does not have the specific role compression that Amoonguss has, nor does it have specific key traits, moves, and defensive perks that Amoonguss has in comparison. In addition, Amoonguss has a key edge regarding dismantling opposing team synergy that Toxapex simply cannot do. Let's roll out some of the positives of the unamused-looking mushroom Pokemon, we'll then dive into a set I've been using frequently, along with other options in its arsenal.

Amoonguss's Positive Traits​

- Grass / Poison actually has a unique defensive utility in some aspects to differentiate itself from Water / Poison in the current meta. While having Ice and Flying-type weaknesses isn't fun, it trades this for a crucial resistance to Electric-type attacks, and neutrality to Ground-type attacks (such as Landorus-T's Earthquake). It also means that Amoonguss is able to completely sit on Pokemon that Toxapex can't sit on, such as Tapu Koko (that lack Brave Bird) and Swampert.

- Amoonguss has the ability Regenerator like Toxapex for longevity, and they're both geared towards punishing physical attackers, but Amoonguss arguably does this even better in some regards. Clear Smog to shut down setup sweepers means that Amoonguss is not complete Taunt bait like Haze Toxapex is, and can slowly wear down opposing setup sweepers a little easier than Toxapex can.

- It is an excellent lure for Future Sight spam teams, as with the tiniest bit of Spe investment, Spore shuts down the Slowtwins and G-Slowking, as most players expect Amoonguss to fully spec into Bulk, and think that due to resisting both of Amoonguss's STABS, they can't be touched.

- In addition to this, Amoonguss has access to Foul Play which punishes Pokemon like Dragapult (especially Physical Dragon Darts builds) for switching in, as no matter what the set, it is always cleanly 2HKO'd by Foul Play, and on Physical builds, it has a chance to OHKO.

0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 182-216 (57.4 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 272-322 (85.8 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (Keep in mind, Foul Play uses the opponent's attack stat)

- Access to the 100% accurate sleep move Spore means that it is actually more reliable in dishing out status and shutting down a threat than Toxapex is, and in some cases can completely shut down an opposing Pokemon more effectively, as Amoonguss doesn't have to rely on 30% chance Scald burns or Baneful Bunker prediction to incapacitate an opponent.

- Thanks to better offensive stats (base 85 Attack and Special Attack) and some quirky movepool choices, Amoonguss can be relatively unpredictable despite its shallow movepool, such as a completely uninvested Stomping Tantrum cleanly 2HKO'ing Offensive Heatran variants on a predicted switch-in, and having a chance to 2HKO HP invested variants.

0 Atk Amoonguss Stomping Tantrum vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-216 (55.7 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Amoonguss Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-216 (46.6 - 55.9%) -- 17.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Set I've Been Testing

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 64 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Clear Smog
- Foul Play
- Protect / Synthesis / Energy Ball​

Spore, Clear Smog, and Foul Play along with Regenerator are the crux of this set for the reasons I've stated above. The last slot is filler based on your specific needs, the three best options I'd recommend are Protect, Synthesis, or Energy Ball. Protect allows for crucial scouting and eases the burden of prediction a little, while Synthesis provides reliable recovery (but is not as necessary due to Regenerator), while Energy Ball allows for a more powerful STAB attack to be used and nails the previously mentioned Swampert. The effort values are specifically set to hit certain benchmarks, such as 64 Special Defense allowing Amoonguss to narrowly avoid a 2HKO from Scarf Dragapult's Flamethrower.

252 SpA Dragapult Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 64 SpD Amoonguss: 182-216 (42.1 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery

The very slight 4 Speed EVs are to outspeed base 30s that almost never invest into Speed (Specifically the base 30 Speed Slowbro, Slowking, and G-Slowking come into mind, with the exception of G-Slowbro's Quick Draw, which is extremely niche and not placed in OU as the other three that I mentioned). This allows Spore to take the Slowmons out of commission and potentially prevent a Future Sight, which can put a gaping hole in your opponent's team synergy.

Great Partners for Amoonguss

Blissey is an excellent partner for Amoonguss, as it not only can handle Special Attackers such as Heatran that (barring niche Physical based sets) Amoonguss doesn't want to stay in on, along with Wish passing, healing off any status that Amoonguss might have incurred, etc. Blissey is also relatively easy to slot onto a variety of teams, so you shouldn't have issues here.

Do Corviknight and Skarmory have you feeling as unamused as Amoonguss's facial expression? Magnezone is absolutely fantastic for dealing with those two and can wear down additionally problematic Steel-type Pokemon through repeated VoltTurn combinations, allowing you to keep the momentum going even when you're forced to back out of Amoonguss.

Rillaboom is another fantastic partner for Amoonguss as the Grassy Terrain boost it provides not only provides Amoonguss with additional longevity, but it counteracts any existing terrains that can stop Amoonguss's Spore antics, and boosts up the power of Amoonguss's STAB Energy Ball (or Seed Bomb for Physical variants). In addition to this, Earthquake is halved in damage output, meaning that Amoongus's neutrality to Ground-type attacks becomes even more relevant compared to Toxapex's weakness, as it essentially gives Amoongus another resistance.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Amoonguss in Grassy Terrain: 85-102 (19.6 - 23.6%) -- possible 8HKO after Black Sludge recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

Give Amoonguss a try, you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how much he can do for your team!

 

[SetsuSetsuna]

Blissey is an excellent partner for Amoonguss, as it not only can handle Special Attackers such as Heatran that (barring niche Physical based sets) Amoonguss doesn't want to stay in on, along with Wish passing, healing off any status that Amoonguss might have incurred, etc. Blissey is also relatively easy to slot onto a variety of teams, so you shouldn't have issues here.

I am unsure if Blissey is a good partner for Amoonguss, but if it is, being able to handle special attackers aint really a great reason.

Heatran wants to trap blissey. Tapu Lele has psyshock. Sub Roost Kyurem stalls it. Dragapult just u-turns out. Blacephalon/Gengar can trick. Hell, even Torn wants to knock off Blisseys HDB.

The only *super common* special attackers that Blissey can handle and that Amoonguss doesn't want anything to do with are Slowking G, Hydreigon, Volcarona, both Moltres and Zapdos (Note that Safeguard Volc, Nasty Plot Hydreigon exist but I am too lazy to calc).

On another note, the 4EV in Speed might help against Slowking G (if it's not min speed, but the ones running eq are) but don't do anything against Slowbro/Slowking because they usually run min speed with 0 IV (to get slow teleports).

 

[Katy]

Underrated Sets in the SSOU Metagame (and what they do)!

The Waters (Splish & Splash)


Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

this set achieves basically the same as the calm mind set, boost tapu fini up and win games in the lategame, when every pokemon on the opposition is weakened. calm mind in conjunction with iron defense achieves, that tapu fini is able to break with stored power in its movepool, draining kiss is its stab of choice and helps it for having semi-longevity during the run. this set can easily abuse choice band urshifu-r and weavile as setup fodder in the later aspect. leftovers are its item of choice here. fire spin-hydreigon is an optimal partner to this set, as it can trap and remove ferrothorn, blissey, and toxapex.


Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Future Sight
- Scald
- Slack Off

basically a relic from other (lower) tiers in the past. but still a great way to deal hefty damage on foes. nasty plot achieves, that its future sight and scald are powered up. slack of is chosen as longevity option. it can abuse choice locked-tapu lele as setup fodder, it can also use slowbro as setup fodder. should be used carefully, but in overall a great, underrated option.

The Ice-Dragon (Kyurem)


Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Rock Slide

issues with bulkarona? well no more. rock slide on kyurem covers this pokemon pretty well and can achieve the potential of killing it after a bit of chip damage inflicted upon volcarona. Ice beam and focus blast hit most of the targets in ou for neutral damage and with freeze-dry this pokemon can still go past most pokemon in the metagame.

The Washing Machine (Rotom-W)


Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Discharge
- Dark Pulse

av galarking is a pain for this pokemon to deal with, but with this set, it can bypass it after some chip and with enough boosts, which nasty plot achieves it. discharge is capable of inflicting damage but also capable of having a great para-chance on opposing pokemon. it can abuse the likes of tornadus-t, landorus-t, and the steel-birds in corviknight and skarmory as setup fodder. the para-chance gives the rotom-w user also the advantage of having the ability of semi-speed control. lastly, dark pulse is chosen to bypass galarking, regular slowking, and it is able to hit dragapult for super effective damage. dark pulse gives it also coverage against ferrothorn and tangrowth.

Melt the Steel (Heatran)


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Burning Jealousy
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Magma Storm

burn the jealousness! this set achieves that pokemon, which are boosted, are getting inflicted with a status condition, a burn, while its also able to inflict damage upon the opposition. such targets could be swords dance excadrill, swords dance landorus-t, nasty plot tornadus-t, and pokemon such as mew. which usually scare out heatran in the cases of excadrill, landorus-t, and mew. earth power + magma storm + taunt can still deal with toxapex.

hope you will have fun trying these sets out and thanks for reading!

 

[P3DS]

Underrated Sets in the SSOU Metagame (and what they do)!

The Waters (Splish & Splash)


Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Iron Defense
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

this set achieves basically the same as the calm mind set, boost tapu fini up and win games in the lategame, when every pokemon on the opposition is weakened. calm mind in conjunction with iron defense achieves, that tapu fini is able to break with stored power in its movepool, draining kiss is its stab of choice and helps it for having semi-longevity during the run. this set can easily abuse choice band urshifu-r and weavile as setup fodder in the later aspect. leftovers are its item of choice here. fire spin-hydreigon is an optimal partner to this set, as it can trap and remove ferrothorn, blissey, and toxapex.


Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Future Sight
- Scald
- Slack Off

basically a relic from other (lower) tiers in the past. but still a great way to deal hefty damage on foes. nasty plot achieves, that its future sight and scald are powered up. slack of is chosen as longevity option. it can abuse choice locked-tapu lele as setup fodder, it can also use slowbro as setup fodder. should be used carefully, but in overall a great, underrated option.

The Ice-Dragon (Kyurem)


Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Rock Slide

issues with bulkarona? well no more. rock slide on kyurem covers this pokemon pretty well and can achieve the potential of killing it after a bit of chip damage inflicted upon volcarona. Ice beam and focus blast hit most of the targets in ou for neutral damage and with freeze-dry this pokemon can still go past most pokemon in the metagame.

The Washing Machine (Rotom-W)


Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Hydro Pump
- Discharge
- Dark Pulse

av galarking is a pain for this pokemon to deal with, but with this set, it can bypass it after some chip and with enough boosts, which nasty plot achieves it. discharge is capable of inflicting damage but also capable of having a great para-chance on opposing pokemon. it can abuse the likes of tornadus-t, landorus-t, and the steel-birds in corviknight and skarmory as setup fodder. the para-chance gives the rotom-w user also the advantage of having the ability of semi-speed control. lastly, dark pulse is chosen to bypass galarking, regular slowking, and it is able to hit dragapult for super effective damage. dark pulse gives it also coverage against ferrothorn and tangrowth.

Melt the Steel (Heatran)


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Burning Jealousy
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Magma Storm

burn the jealousness! this set achieves that pokemon, which are boosted, are getting inflicted with a status condition, a burn, while its also able to inflict damage upon the opposition. such targets could be swords dance excadrill, swords dance landorus-t, nasty plot tornadus-t, and pokemon such as mew. which usually scare out heatran in the cases of excadrill, landorus-t, and mew. earth power + magma storm + taunt can still deal with toxapex.

hope you will have fun trying these sets out and thanks for reading!

These are some absolutely spicy sets. Do you happen to have a set for the fire spin hydreigon? It's nice to see more trappers coming out the wood work (Was a fan of politoed on a semi stall team. Pretty big damage from whirlpools). Defo want to test that fini set out

On the rotom, is there much benefit for Dark Pulse over Shadow Ball? You trade 20% flinch and hitting switched in normals for less resistances and 20% spdef drop. One place it could shift a matchup is vs phys def unaware clefable. Shadow ball+ -1 hydro is a 64% chance to KO (Unless it has lefties, then its a 20% chance). Just an idea.

 

[Gomi]

These are some absolutely spicy sets. Do you happen to have a set for the fire spin hydreigon? It's nice to see more trappers coming out the wood work (Was a fan of politoed on a semi stall team. Pretty big damage from whirlpools). Defo want to test that fini set out

On the rotom, is there much benefit for Dark Pulse over Shadow Ball? You trade 20% flinch and hitting switched in normals for less resistances and 20% spdef drop. One place it could shift a matchup is vs phys def unaware clefable. Shadow ball+ -1 hydro is a 64% chance to KO (Unless it has lefties, then its a 20% chance). Just an idea.

Hydreigon @ Grip Claw
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SpA / 232 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Spin
- Earth Power
- Roost
- Taunt
its pretty useless beyond toxapex but trapping toxapex is enough to be semi relevant at worst.