Yeah that's what I was confused about, he talks about gorilla tactics+dynamaxing but the interactions between gorilla tactics+choice items aren't made super clear
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Is there going to be a Pre-Home OU Meta and an OU including the changes after release of Pokemon Home (for example Knock off Bisharp) like in early SM?
As a reminder, any one liners will be deleted. Please make sure your posts include sufficient details as to add something to the discussion at hand. If someone makes a short and/or incorrect statement, please pm them or leave a post on their wall since I will most likely delete it to keep the thread fresh. If you have a question, use the SQSA thread!
This is also not the place to post your team and ask for feedback - those posts belong in the SQSA thread. If you’ve had success with a certain team or used something that you think should be explored, by all means post away, but make sure to include explanations of why you’re posting it!
And in case you missed it, Shadow Tag has already been banned from Gen 8, so posts regarding that will continue to be deleted.
Thank you to everyone that has contributed to the discussion so far, there have been plenty of fun reads. Keep up the good work folks!
This is also not the place to post your team and ask for feedback - those posts belong in the SQSA thread. If you’ve had success with a certain team or used something that you think should be explored, by all means post away, but make sure to include explanations of why you’re posting it!
And in case you missed it, Shadow Tag has already been banned from Gen 8, so posts regarding that will continue to be deleted.
Thank you to everyone that has contributed to the discussion so far, there have been plenty of fun reads. Keep up the good work folks!
Wanted to post about another mon I've been liking lately that helps against a lot of the current trends.
Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Fire Punch
- Quick Attack
Dexit has taken a lot of the best ground resists out of the game, with Landorus-T and Gliscor being the most notable losses, so Diggersby is actually quite good even with the departure of Return and Frustration. Normal typing is actually a boon right now from a defensive standpoint, as Diggersby can pivot into choiced Ghost-types like Gengar and Dragapult, and it gives it a ton of opportunities to come in and break through opposing teams. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are main ground checks in the tier right now, so Wild Charge Diggersby is extremely potent against bulkier teams in genreal. I opted for Fire Punch over some substitute normal STAB like Body Slam because smashing Ferrothorn is a lot more important than more damage on split-less Rotom. Quick Attack is just really nice priority to pick off weakened stuff and prevent Dugtrio from trapping you, which is really nice. Looking forward to a possible dynamax-less metagame because this new dex looks really fun and has a ton of potential for creativity.
Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Wild Charge
- Fire Punch
- Quick Attack
Dexit has taken a lot of the best ground resists out of the game, with Landorus-T and Gliscor being the most notable losses, so Diggersby is actually quite good even with the departure of Return and Frustration. Normal typing is actually a boon right now from a defensive standpoint, as Diggersby can pivot into choiced Ghost-types like Gengar and Dragapult, and it gives it a ton of opportunities to come in and break through opposing teams. Mandibuzz and Corviknight are main ground checks in the tier right now, so Wild Charge Diggersby is extremely potent against bulkier teams in genreal. I opted for Fire Punch over some substitute normal STAB like Body Slam because smashing Ferrothorn is a lot more important than more damage on split-less Rotom. Quick Attack is just really nice priority to pick off weakened stuff and prevent Dugtrio from trapping you, which is really nice. Looking forward to a possible dynamax-less metagame because this new dex looks really fun and has a ton of potential for creativity.
Don’t want to use Hatterne because its too slow? What about Indeedee but wait you’d rather use your Scarf or Choice Item on another Pokemon? Well you’re in luck because I have just the Pokemon for you:
Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Sigilyph plays a solid middle ground between these two Psychic-types. Magic Guard is broken as usual so Sigilyph doesn’t give a shit about Toxapex and Ferrothorn while breaking them. Other benefits that Sigilyph has is of course not being harmed by hazards, status, and weather and it is one of the few Pokemon still blessed with Roost. It does suck that Sigilyph underspeeds Hydreigon but being faster than Excadrill, unboosted Kommo-o, and the Rotoms is beneficial. Psychic without Pursuit and the existance of Hawlucha actually has usable Defensive merit and Sigilyph softchecks it while also checking Excadrill. Sigilyph even has some Dynamax potential by boosting its Psychics through Max Mindstorm and cleaning teams in the endgame. Its an unconventional and even anti-meta offensive Pokemon that I’d recommend to anyone who can fit it over the aforementioned Psychic-types.
Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Sigilyph plays a solid middle ground between these two Psychic-types. Magic Guard is broken as usual so Sigilyph doesn’t give a shit about Toxapex and Ferrothorn while breaking them. Other benefits that Sigilyph has is of course not being harmed by hazards, status, and weather and it is one of the few Pokemon still blessed with Roost. It does suck that Sigilyph underspeeds Hydreigon but being faster than Excadrill, unboosted Kommo-o, and the Rotoms is beneficial. Psychic without Pursuit and the existance of Hawlucha actually has usable Defensive merit and Sigilyph softchecks it while also checking Excadrill. Sigilyph even has some Dynamax potential by boosting its Psychics through Max Mindstorm and cleaning teams in the endgame. Its an unconventional and even anti-meta offensive Pokemon that I’d recommend to anyone who can fit it over the aforementioned Psychic-types.
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I've noticed that Baneful Bunker has become a standard move on Toxapex as of late, and it makes sense considering all of the physical threats in the meta that utilize contact moves like Gyarados, U-turn/Flare Blitz Galarian Darmanitan, Hawlucha, Barraskewda, Cinderace, etc. It's also really good for scouting Choice-locked moves. I've been liking Baneful Bunker/Haze/Scald/Recover since I feel it's a near-full stop to a lot of the boosting sweepers in the meta.
I'm still a low-ladder scrub but a really neat alternative dynamax mon I've been using is Drednaw. The set is as follows:
Drednaw @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall (sets rain with max, and the chance to flinch post-dynamax is weirdly effective)
- Earthquake (Coverage plus SpD boosts to match Drednaw's decent defenses)
- Stone Edge (max rockfall setting sand seems counterintuitive, but it's still a fantastic STAB that can net OHKOs on plenty of mons, and in a pinch the SpD boost can help.)
- Jaw Lock (Dark type coverage is fun, plus even post-dyna you won't be switching out much)
I wouldn't bother with Gigamax Drednaw; Strong Jaw to boost Jaw Lock is fun and all, but it can't compete with the speed and rain team usability that Swift Swim grants.
Obviously there are superior options (Barraskewda comes to mind) and an EQ weakness is no fun, but everyone's new favorite turtle still hits a respectable 494 Speed alongside 361 Attack and really solid STABs. I don't see Drednaw being some OU powerhouse, but it's very much so usable, particularly on rain teams, if you want something with a more bulk than Barrraskewda.
Drednaw @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall (sets rain with max, and the chance to flinch post-dynamax is weirdly effective)
- Earthquake (Coverage plus SpD boosts to match Drednaw's decent defenses)
- Stone Edge (max rockfall setting sand seems counterintuitive, but it's still a fantastic STAB that can net OHKOs on plenty of mons, and in a pinch the SpD boost can help.)
- Jaw Lock (Dark type coverage is fun, plus even post-dyna you won't be switching out much)
I wouldn't bother with Gigamax Drednaw; Strong Jaw to boost Jaw Lock is fun and all, but it can't compete with the speed and rain team usability that Swift Swim grants.
Obviously there are superior options (Barraskewda comes to mind) and an EQ weakness is no fun, but everyone's new favorite turtle still hits a respectable 494 Speed alongside 361 Attack and really solid STABs. I don't see Drednaw being some OU powerhouse, but it's very much so usable, particularly on rain teams, if you want something with a more bulk than Barrraskewda.
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what do people think are the things that are pretty much neccesary for a team? like how in usum you practically have to have a ground type, steel type, defogger/spinner, rocks etc or else your team most likely wasn't good. are there any things like that in swsh so far or does it just seem like any team archetype can work?
Something that checks Gyarados, whether it's defensively/offensively/both, is an absolute must, almost to the point where it'll be good to double up on Gyara checks that can also take on other threats, like physdef Ferro, Baneful Pex, Scarf Rotom, etc. Might as well just say good Water-resists in general as Rain is very strong in this meta as are mons like Barraskewda, opposing Rotom-W, Pelipper, etc.
Excadrill checks are also an absolute necessity as imo this mon is #2 behind Gyarados in terms of how threatening it is to most of the meta. Corviknight w/ Body Press handles just about any variant fairly well, as does Rotom-W against Sand Rush variants.
Hi... i was playing in lowlader and 9/10 teams are tytar+exca+2wall+dragapullt.... is so boring to play agains the same team!!
Btw i was playing a Volturn with new mons and this is working right now
Crawdant is so hard to wall in this metagame, also Aqua Jet kill many hyper offence team whith rock and some damage
IP Edit: Please use a hide tag or pokepaste when pasting your team; include more details next time, there are a lot of non-standard mons to simply paste the team
Btw i was playing a Volturn with new mons and this is working right now
Toxtri (Toxtricity) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Wave
Ubstagoon (Obstagoon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Brick Break
SnowMan (Darmanitan-Galar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
Sonic (Noivern) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- U-turn
KingDraw (Crawdaunt) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
Ability: Punk Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Boomburst
- Overdrive
- Volt Switch
- Sludge Wave
Ubstagoon (Obstagoon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Parting Shot
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Brick Break
SnowMan (Darmanitan-Galar) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
Sonic (Noivern) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- U-turn
KingDraw (Crawdaunt) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower
Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Stealth Rock
Crawdant is so hard to wall in this metagame, also Aqua Jet kill many hyper offence team whith rock and some damage
IP Edit: Please use a hide tag or pokepaste when pasting your team; include more details next time, there are a lot of non-standard mons to simply paste the team
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There hasn't been much mention of Tyranitar as a dynamaxer, but this mon is really threatening. In sand and after dynamax, Ttar is bulkier than Chansey with her eviolite, except he also has great attack and dd.
Choosing when to dynamax is a little more strategic than i think ppl are giving credit for. It's tough to tell this early I'm really on the fence about whether dynamax is banworthy, but I don't think it's as mindless 'click dynamax and win with gyara' as it's been made out. Toxapex's haze seems invaluable right now, and g-corsola is extremely hard to break physically. It's been said but ferro/pex/corsola is very hard to break, and aside from the ditto teams, it seems like those 3 + a couple breakers/sweepers and some speed control is the most consistent archetype. Also I really don't like that ditto is so prominent and powerful right now, seems like a symptom of an unbalanced metagame. We'll see how it goes tho.
Dragapult has been underwhelming. Corviknight is cool but it's matchup against other walls is not great, and it's bulk is not as good as our old steel birds. I haven't played around with self setting weather abusers but the potential there seems strong, like that ludicolo mentioned earlier. Maybe beartic if it can ever force anything out. The hazard game is very aggressive right now, hazard stack + wait is a powerful strategy even in this offensive meta, with super sturdy setters, nice spinbockers, and numerous options for pressuring/taking advantage of defoggers.
Tyranitar @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake/Crunch
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch
- Earthquake/Crunch
Choosing when to dynamax is a little more strategic than i think ppl are giving credit for. It's tough to tell this early I'm really on the fence about whether dynamax is banworthy, but I don't think it's as mindless 'click dynamax and win with gyara' as it's been made out. Toxapex's haze seems invaluable right now, and g-corsola is extremely hard to break physically. It's been said but ferro/pex/corsola is very hard to break, and aside from the ditto teams, it seems like those 3 + a couple breakers/sweepers and some speed control is the most consistent archetype. Also I really don't like that ditto is so prominent and powerful right now, seems like a symptom of an unbalanced metagame. We'll see how it goes tho.
Dragapult has been underwhelming. Corviknight is cool but it's matchup against other walls is not great, and it's bulk is not as good as our old steel birds. I haven't played around with self setting weather abusers but the potential there seems strong, like that ludicolo mentioned earlier. Maybe beartic if it can ever force anything out. The hazard game is very aggressive right now, hazard stack + wait is a powerful strategy even in this offensive meta, with super sturdy setters, nice spinbockers, and numerous options for pressuring/taking advantage of defoggers.
Gonna drop some thoughts about the current state of SS OU. Overall, I got a bit of mixed feeling about it: on the one hand, I like how fast-paced the meta is, but on the other hand, such a fast pace along with Dynamax and all the new threats makes some games uncomfortably chaotic and crazy. It's understandable, though, the format exists for less than a week, and we have some unknown mechanics yet to discover.
Well, about some of new (and not only new) Pokemon:
: the fish is just busted. With very nice Attack, blistering Speed further boosted by Swift Swim, and amazing coverage Barraskewda is very very tough to deal with and is a great asset for Rain teams, compensating the loss of Mega Swampert. Barraskewda also is an outstanding Dynamaxer: everything can be crushed with its wide arsenal of powerful Max attacks, and two of them, Max Geyser and Max Knuckle, boast secondary effects especially useful for Barraskewda in setting Rain up and boosting its Attack, respectively. Overall, the best fish of all the world.
: the Gen 8 reincarnation of Skarmory turns out to be very cool Pokemon in the metagame! Bulk Up sets can single-handedly screw up many unprepared teams, while utility sets, well, provide a ton of useful utility like Taunt, Defog, and U-turn. Pressure is also very neat, stalling out moves like Toxapex's Haze and Ferrothorn's hazards. Watch out for this birb!
: Rather bulky and offensively strong Prankster abuser is definitely something nice! Grimmsnarl has access to some amazing supportive options like Taunt, Thunder Wave, Dual screens. Bulk Up sets are also intriguing, they can destroy unprepared teams just by themselves, pretty much like Corviknight. Grimmsnarl has a great potential I think, and I'm interested in what sets will prevail when the metagame settles down.
: CBCBDARM COMES HERE!!! Natutally great Attack backed up by well-rounded coverage enables Galar Darmanitan to make a good use of its Gorilla Tactics ability, which is like free Choice Band. Putting Choice Band or Choice Scarf on this Pokemon makes it either impossible to defensively check hard-hitter or strong revenge killer, pivot, and even cleaner in some cases. Galar Darmanitan also got actually cool Zen Mode forme which can pull off a surprising sweep via Substitute, Salac Berry, and Belly Drum. I definitely want to see how Galar Darmanitan will play when the metagame settles down.
: Rotom got Nasty Plot this generation, and Rotom-H is suited best for this move! Its Electric+Fire coverage gives absolutely no chance to FerroPex-like cores, and Rotom-H is still a decent pivot with Volt Switch. Right now, however, I find myself putting Rotom-W over the microwave oven, giving up its breaking capabilities solely for having a counterplay to Gyarados.
: one of the best Dynamaxers, Gyarados just wreaks havoc in the metagame right now. Getting Power Whip is a very huge buff to it, since Rotom-W can no longer call itself a reliable Gyarados answer. Power Whip also helps against Quagsire and Pyukumuku, which otherwise just laugh on Gyarados's attepmts to set up and get past them. I strongly believe that Gyarados should be suspect tested when the metagame settles down, unless some yet undiscovered mechanic or Smogon tiering desicion nerf Dynamax.
: Ditto is instumental for a ton of teams, especially fatter and slower ones, to not let Dynamaxers run through them on a single breath. Even just the sole presence of Ditto puts a tremendous pressure on how you play with your offensive Pokemon. One misstep and you find yourself reverse sweeped by Ditto in a moment. Very nice Pokemon in this crazy metagame, overall.
: Another take on handling rampaging sweepers, Mimikyu is a cool fit on many offensive teams that seek for a revenge killer. While its initial firepower is rather underwhelming, and thus it somewhat struggles to deal with Dynamaxers, Mimikyu still is at very least capable of weakening them for teammates. As for non-Dynamax threats, the combination of Disguise and Red Card proves to be amazing versus them; Mimikyu is even able to reverse sweep in such cases sometimes. Don't overlook this Pokemon when creating an offensive team!
I have a lot to say about other Pokemon but it's 2am right now so I won't do this. However, I also want to share a team with you all:
click for importable
This team was built by me recently; while it doesn't have any real ladder success or such a thing, this team is certainly very fun to use! It is based around Choice Scarf Galar Darmanitan, which, as I've stated earlier, is a cool revenge killer, pivot, and sweeper. Rotom-W is here to create a VoltTurn core with Galar Darmanitan, give me some Gyarados counterplay, and wallbreak in some matchups after a Nasty Plot boost. Excadrill is a prime partner to Galar Darmanitan: it provides a form of hazard control in Rapid Spin, sets up Stealth Rock, and threatens Toxapex, Rotom-W, and Rotom-H, which came in on Galar Darmanitan and got U-Turn'd. Gyarados is a pretty brainless slot here, it just gives me a busted setup sweeper and an actual Ground immunuty so Mold Breaker Excadrill won't override me only clicking Earthquake. Choice Specs Dragapult gives my team more Speed and immediate firepower; it also can eat Hawlucha's predicted Fighting-type attack in a pinch. Lastly, Grimmsnarl glues my team together, providing a counterplay to snowballing sweepers in Prankster Thunder Wave, a soft switch-in on Dragapult, Taunt to annoy defensive Pokemon, and so on.
Ok, that's all for my first Gen 8 post!well its actually second, the real fisrt was my corviknight thread
Well, about some of new (and not only new) Pokemon:
I have a lot to say about other Pokemon but it's 2am right now so I won't do this. However, I also want to share a team with you all:
click for importable
This team was built by me recently; while it doesn't have any real ladder success or such a thing, this team is certainly very fun to use! It is based around Choice Scarf Galar Darmanitan, which, as I've stated earlier, is a cool revenge killer, pivot, and sweeper. Rotom-W is here to create a VoltTurn core with Galar Darmanitan, give me some Gyarados counterplay, and wallbreak in some matchups after a Nasty Plot boost. Excadrill is a prime partner to Galar Darmanitan: it provides a form of hazard control in Rapid Spin, sets up Stealth Rock, and threatens Toxapex, Rotom-W, and Rotom-H, which came in on Galar Darmanitan and got U-Turn'd. Gyarados is a pretty brainless slot here, it just gives me a busted setup sweeper and an actual Ground immunuty so Mold Breaker Excadrill won't override me only clicking Earthquake. Choice Specs Dragapult gives my team more Speed and immediate firepower; it also can eat Hawlucha's predicted Fighting-type attack in a pinch. Lastly, Grimmsnarl glues my team together, providing a counterplay to snowballing sweepers in Prankster Thunder Wave, a soft switch-in on Dragapult, Taunt to annoy defensive Pokemon, and so on.
Ok, that's all for my first Gen 8 post!
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w
To prevent this from being a 1-liner on darmanitan i changed speed to 200+ to outspeed drill and then dumped rest into HP
on rotom-w i dumped 48 into spdef to avoid changing the bulk benchmarks (what are those benchmarks anyways?)
On gyarados i ran 236+ on speed to outspeed dragapult at +1 though ig you could alternately run 248+ to outspeed base 80's
All of these aren't necessary if you want to speed tie but I don't like running unnecessary EVs all for a 50/50 chance of outspeeding
on dragapult i prefer 180+ in spa to guarantee 2hko on pex after SR
i'm just throwing my two cents in, all of this is absolutely minor and absolutely optional but see what you like
why is your rotom-w missing 48 EVsGonna drop some thoughts about the current state of SS OU. Overall, I got a bit of mixed feeling about it: on the one hand, I like how fast-paced the meta is, but on the other hand, such a fast pace along with Dynamax and all the new threats makes some games uncomfortably chaotic and crazy. It's understandable, though, the format exists for less than a week, and we have some unknown mechanics yet to discover.
Well, about some of new (and not only new) Pokemon:
: the fish is just busted. With very nice Attack, blistering Speed further boosted by Swift Swim, and amazing coverage Barraskewda is very very tough to deal with and is a great asset for Rain teams, compensating the loss of Mega Swampert. Barraskewda also is an outstanding Dynamaxer: everything can be crushed with its wide arsenal of powerful Max attacks, and two of them, Max Geyser and Max Knuckle, boast secondary effects especially useful for Barraskewda in setting Rain up and boosting its Attack, respectively. Overall, the best fish of all the world.
: the Gen 8 reincarnation of Skarmory turns out to be very cool Pokemon in the metagame! Bulk Up sets can single-handedly screw up many unprepared teams, while utility sets, well, provide a ton of useful utility like Taunt, Defog, and U-turn. Pressure is also very neat, stalling out moves like Toxapex's Haze and Ferrothorn's hazards. Watch out for this birb!
: Rather bulky and offensively strong Prankster abuser is definitely something nice! Grimmsnarl has access to some amazing supportive options like Taunt, Thunder Wave, Dual screens. Bulk Up sets are also intriguing, they can destroy unprepared teams just by themselves, pretty much like Corviknight. Grimmsnarl has a great potential I think, and I'm interested in what sets will prevail when the metagame settles down.
: CBCBDARM COMES HERE!!! Natutally great Attack backed up by well-rounded coverage enable Galar Darmanitan to make a good use of its Gorilla Tactics ability, which is like free Choice Band. Putting Choice Band or Choice Scarf on this Pokemon makes it either impossible to defensively check hard-hitter or strong revenge killer, pivot, and even cleaner in some cases. Galar Darmanitan also got actually cool Zen Mode forme which can pull of a surprising sweep via Substitute, Salac Berry, and Belly Drum. I definitely want to see how Galar Darmanitan will play when the metagame settles down.
: Rotom got Nasty Plot this generation, and Rotom-H is suited best for this move! Its Electric+Fire coverage gives absolutely no chance to FerroPex-like cores, and Rotom-H is still a decent pivot with Volt Switch. Right now, however, I find myself putting Rotom-W over the microwave, giving up its breaking capabilities solely for having a counterplay to Gyarados.
: one of the best Dynamaxers, Gyarados just wreaks havoc in the metagame right now. Getting Power Whip is a very huge buff to it, since Rotom-W can no longer call itself a reliable Gyarados answer. Power Whip also helps against Quagsire and Pyukumuku, which otherwise just laugh on Gyarados's attepmts to set up and get past them. I strongly believe that Gyarados should be suspect tested when the metagame settles down, unless some yet undiscovered mechanic or Smogon tiering desicion nerf Dynamax.
: Ditto is instumental for a ton of teams, especially fatter and slower ones, to not let Dynamaxers run through them on a single breath. Even just the sole presence of Ditto puts a tremendous pressure on how you play with your offensive Pokemon. One misstep and you find yourself reverse sweeped by Ditto in a moment. Very nice Pokemon in this crazy metagame, overall.
: Another take on handling rampaging sweepers, Mimikyu is a cool fit on many offensive teams that seek for a revenge killer. While its initial firepower is rather underwhelming, and thus it somewhat struggles to deal with Dynamaxers, Mimikyu still is at very least capable of weakening them for teammates. As for non-Dynamax threats, the combination of Disguise and Red Card proves to be amazing versus them; Mimikyu is even able to reverse sweep in such cases sometimes. Don't overlook this Pokemon when creating an offensive team!
I have a lot to say about other Pokemon but it's 2am right now so I won't do this. However, I also want to share a team with you all:
click for importable
This team was built by me recently; while it doesn't have any real ladder success or such a thing, this team is certainly very fun to use! It is based around Choice Scarf Galar Darmanitan, which, as I've stated earlier, is a cool revenge killer, pivot, and sweeper. Rotom-W is here to create a VoltTurn core with Galar Darmanitan, give me some Gyarados counterplay, and wallbreak in some matchups after a Nasty Plot boost. Excadrill is a prime partner to Galar Darmanitan: it provides a form of hazard control in Rapid Spin, sets up Stealth Rock, and threatens Toxapex, Rotom-W, and Rotom-H, which came in on Galar Darmanitan and got U-Turn'd. Gyarados is a pretty brainless slot here, it just gives me a busted setup sweeper and an actual Ground immunuty so Mold Breaker Excadrill won't override me only clicking Earthquake. Choice Specs Dragapult gives my team more Speed and immediate firepower; it also can eat Hawlucha's predicted Fighting-type attack in a pinch. Lastly, Grimmsnarl glues my team together, providing a counterplay to snowballing sweepers in Prankster Thunder Wave, a soft switch-in on Dragapult, Taunt to annoy defensive Pokemon, and so on.
Ok, that's all for my first Gen 8 post!well its actually second, the real fisrt was my corviknight thread
To prevent this from being a 1-liner on darmanitan i changed speed to 200+ to outspeed drill and then dumped rest into HP
on rotom-w i dumped 48 into spdef to avoid changing the bulk benchmarks (what are those benchmarks anyways?)
On gyarados i ran 236+ on speed to outspeed dragapult at +1 though ig you could alternately run 248+ to outspeed base 80's
All of these aren't necessary if you want to speed tie but I don't like running unnecessary EVs all for a 50/50 chance of outspeeding
on dragapult i prefer 180+ in spa to guarantee 2hko on pex after SR
i'm just throwing my two cents in, all of this is absolutely minor and absolutely optional but see what you like
I would like to point out that Inteleon + Duggy is a scary combo before Arena Trap gets banned.
This pair reminds me of ZardY and Duggy back in the days of SM OU. Inteleon hits a large portion of the meta hard with Specs Hydro Pump or Snipe Shot crits and can pivot out of unfavorable matchups like Ferro, Pex, and Washtom. It also helps its the 11th fastest mon in the tier. Inteleon seems kinda niche compared to the other fast hard hitting special attacker, Dragapult and the other fast water glass-cannon Barraskewda. Though I feel it still holds a small but noticeable niche which helps it differentiate itself out of the two. But when paired with Duggy its an absolute monster. Sash Dug traps Pex and now even Ferrothorn with Max Knuckle. Once those two are gone feel free to wreck havoc on everything else. This core is even better with Inteleon having U-Turn allowing Duggy to come in safely if it U-Turns on a predicted Ferro or Pex switch. I built a sand offense team around this core.
This pair reminds me of ZardY and Duggy back in the days of SM OU. Inteleon hits a large portion of the meta hard with Specs Hydro Pump or Snipe Shot crits and can pivot out of unfavorable matchups like Ferro, Pex, and Washtom. It also helps its the 11th fastest mon in the tier. Inteleon seems kinda niche compared to the other fast hard hitting special attacker, Dragapult and the other fast water glass-cannon Barraskewda. Though I feel it still holds a small but noticeable niche which helps it differentiate itself out of the two. But when paired with Duggy its an absolute monster. Sash Dug traps Pex and now even Ferrothorn with Max Knuckle. Once those two are gone feel free to wreck havoc on everything else. This core is even better with Inteleon having U-Turn allowing Duggy to come in safely if it U-Turns on a predicted Ferro or Pex switch. I built a sand offense team around this core.
Mark Zuckerberg (Inteleon) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Snipe Shot/Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
Gyro (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Knock Off/Gyro Ball
Ban me (Dugtrio) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
Mr. Sandman (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
Shredder (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
Missile Rick (Dragapult) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn
Sucker Punch on Dugtrio is nice for revenging weakened Barra and Dragapult. Ferro sets spikes and annoys opposing Ferrothorn and Pex with Knock. Ttar sets up sand and rocks. Drill sweeps and spins. Dragapult for late game cleaning and early game. Dark Pulse can be used instead of Snipe Shot to hit Jellicent if needed.
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Snipe Shot/Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- U-turn
Gyro (Ferrothorn) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Knock Off/Gyro Ball
Ban me (Dugtrio) (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
Mr. Sandman (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
Shredder (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin
Missile Rick (Dragapult) (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn
Sucker Punch on Dugtrio is nice for revenging weakened Barra and Dragapult. Ferro sets spikes and annoys opposing Ferrothorn and Pex with Knock. Ttar sets up sand and rocks. Drill sweeps and spins. Dragapult for late game cleaning and early game. Dark Pulse can be used instead of Snipe Shot to hit Jellicent if needed.
I like gimmicky yet somewhat viable teams. Here's one I came up with
https://pokepast.es/6b2653f098443b33
Notable members include choice specs glaceon, who now has access to freeze dry to deal with bulky waters:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 212-252 (69.7 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 356-422 (117.1 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Simple Swoobat, who now has access to nasty plot (!!) which can boost its attack 4 stages. Do I really need to explain this one? +4 heat wave annihlates ferrothorn.
Anywho, hope you guys like it. Don't shit on me
https://pokepast.es/6b2653f098443b33
Notable members include choice specs glaceon, who now has access to freeze dry to deal with bulky waters:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 212-252 (69.7 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Glaceon Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 356-422 (117.1 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Simple Swoobat, who now has access to nasty plot (!!) which can boost its attack 4 stages. Do I really need to explain this one? +4 heat wave annihlates ferrothorn.
Anywho, hope you guys like it. Don't shit on me
Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Stealth Rock
- Memento
it's no secret trapping is amazing. gothitelle got the boot, so it's time to abuse dugtrio
there's so many strong and threatening u-turn users in ou right now, with mons like darmanitan, hydreigon, the starters, dragapult, and to an extent corviknight and scarf rotom-w. all of those can be abused to click u-turn and trap supposed checks with dugtrio. it can also work as a fail-safe option and a safety net for almost everything. sand rush exca? check. pex? checked unless ur burned. random shit like copperajah and duraludon? also checked. gets rid of shit like ttar too. i have come across a torkoal that only took like 23% from eq tho which was stupid lolalso i used a corviknight set basically cuz i lacked a defogger and bu corvi is stupid good, and to my surprise defog/bulk up corvi is actually good and can pull off both jobs successfully a lot more than i thought
i can't wait for the meta to properly grow and i'm really hoping dynamax is banned so it's truly a fun experience for everyone. this is the first time i get excited for an ou metagame since 1st black and white!
I don't know if this has been said already, but like Inner Focus, Own Tempo and Oblivious, Scrappy also ignores Intimidate
I think centiskorch + rotom wash is actually a really good core.
so basically rotom lures in things like seismitoad or grass types like ferrothorn. if you have a rotom in, you know that they will most likely switch to a ferrothorn. obviously, you just volt switch and centiskorch gets a free switch in to just rip off attacks. also, on something like seismitoad you can just double into your centiskorch, and then OHKO with power whip (which a lot of people don't expect) and just wipe out the seimitoad or something else of the sort. also, the speed evs on centiskorch are just so you can outspeed 0 speed seismitoad. so yea I just wanted to show this core I've been using lately because I think it's something people should try out.
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
so basically rotom lures in things like seismitoad or grass types like ferrothorn. if you have a rotom in, you know that they will most likely switch to a ferrothorn. obviously, you just volt switch and centiskorch gets a free switch in to just rip off attacks. also, on something like seismitoad you can just double into your centiskorch, and then OHKO with power whip (which a lot of people don't expect) and just wipe out the seimitoad or something else of the sort. also, the speed evs on centiskorch are just so you can outspeed 0 speed seismitoad. so yea I just wanted to show this core I've been using lately because I think it's something people should try out.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Pyukumuku @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soak
- Recover
- Toxic
- Protect
Are you tired of all the offense shit running around? Well now you can totally invalidate almost all of it with Pyukumuku! Keep him away from Mold Breaker Excadrill, and remember to Soak those non-Substitute Aegislashes and Corviknights so even they won't be safe from the wrath of Toxic!
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 133-156 (42.3 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 111-132 (35.3 - 42%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 124-148 (39.4 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pyukumuku: 113-134 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 155-183 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (That's right, Banded GT EQ isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO!!!!)
252 Atk Sky Plate Gyarados Max Airstream vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 150-177 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 111-132 (35.3 - 42%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 124-148 (39.4 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Dragapult Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pyukumuku: 113-134 (35.9 - 42.6%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Darmanitan-Galar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 155-183 (49.3 - 58.2%) -- 65.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (That's right, Banded GT EQ isn't even a guaranteed 2HKO!!!!)
252 Atk Sky Plate Gyarados Max Airstream vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 150-177 (47.7 - 56.3%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Run block over protect, and personally I think the block+spite+rest+recover set is overall better, if much slower
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Unless Showdown is bugged, Block is seemingly not available at least until Home comes out
Oh that really hurts Pyuk's viability... Maybe Quag is better for the time being?
I know no one cares if I post, so I'm just going to do it.
Going to break down a few thoughts, and then probably hit the hay.
Definitely on the hype train for this mon. It's bulky, it has Stealth Rock, it hard stops some very dangerous sweepers in the metagame at the moment, I feel a lot of teams should utilize it more. This thing is extremely cancerous and can swing games almost by itself. It's not perfect, but trust me when I say this thing somehow finds a way to be more cancerous than Chansey at times. The only drawback is that it can't infinitely refresh its status. Clefable is a really good teammate with this thanks to Aromatherapy. Toxapex works too since the only status Corsola doesn't really like is Toxic.
The only thing I don't like about this Pokemon is that Substitute can really destroy some of the things that Corsola-Galar can do to keep healthy and prevent Pokemon from snowballing. Night Shade helps with that since it makes Corsola-Galar less passive, but there's always Taunt that can make things extremely annoying (which can allow a Pokemon like Corviknight to set up on Corsola-Galar).
Didn't really make a great team with it, and there are flaws since it's pretty prone to Ditto copying it (not a huge fan of that), but it's interesting because it snowballs in a unique way - it can get bulkier.
Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Drain Punch
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
The nice thing with Drain Punch is you can restore health after you're done with Dynamax or prior to. You can take advantage of fat HP stacks too. It's not the best set, and you probably could argue Aerial Ace in here somewhere for Speed boosts (wouldn't blame you for this, but then you have to find ways to beat Clef or Toxapex).
Charizard @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Air Slash
- Solarbeam
- Roost
This thing can be really terrifying. I prefer Air Slash since you're already getting 130 BP with Max Airstream and you're not as gimped by your own weather. Solar Power Dynamax moves do a fuckton of damage, and the nice thing is you can be pretty impervious to the recoil if you use Roost. I find that Solarbeam is really good as a Dynamax move, though.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
It's hard to break through Pex, sadly.
Going to break down a few thoughts, and then probably hit the hay.
Definitely on the hype train for this mon. It's bulky, it has Stealth Rock, it hard stops some very dangerous sweepers in the metagame at the moment, I feel a lot of teams should utilize it more. This thing is extremely cancerous and can swing games almost by itself. It's not perfect, but trust me when I say this thing somehow finds a way to be more cancerous than Chansey at times. The only drawback is that it can't infinitely refresh its status. Clefable is a really good teammate with this thanks to Aromatherapy. Toxapex works too since the only status Corsola doesn't really like is Toxic.
The only thing I don't like about this Pokemon is that Substitute can really destroy some of the things that Corsola-Galar can do to keep healthy and prevent Pokemon from snowballing. Night Shade helps with that since it makes Corsola-Galar less passive, but there's always Taunt that can make things extremely annoying (which can allow a Pokemon like Corviknight to set up on Corsola-Galar).
Didn't really make a great team with it, and there are flaws since it's pretty prone to Ditto copying it (not a huge fan of that), but it's interesting because it snowballs in a unique way - it can get bulkier.
Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Ability: Bulletproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Clangorous Soul
- Drain Punch
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
The nice thing with Drain Punch is you can restore health after you're done with Dynamax or prior to. You can take advantage of fat HP stacks too. It's not the best set, and you probably could argue Aerial Ace in here somewhere for Speed boosts (wouldn't blame you for this, but then you have to find ways to beat Clef or Toxapex).
Charizard @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Air Slash
- Solarbeam
- Roost
This thing can be really terrifying. I prefer Air Slash since you're already getting 130 BP with Max Airstream and you're not as gimped by your own weather. Solar Power Dynamax moves do a fuckton of damage, and the nice thing is you can be pretty impervious to the recoil if you use Roost. I find that Solarbeam is really good as a Dynamax move, though.
252 SpA Solar Power Charizard Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex in Harsh Sunshine: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
It's hard to break through Pex, sadly.
Jellicent @ Colbur Berry / Kasib Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hex
- Will-O-Wisp
- Strength Sap
- Taunt
Despite Corsola's superior bulk, Jellicent is a nice alternative on some teams due to key resistances to Fire, Ice and Steel and Water Inmunity. Pretty much stops BU Corviknight (with speed investment) while checking Barraskewda, Dragapult and Darmanitan. I really like to pair it up with Weezing to exploit T-spikes Hex, just make sure to run Fire Blast to lure Ferro. Colbur has traditionally be the item of choice since gen6 but I feel Kasib might be the best option to catch on Ghost like Gengar or Polteageist since Knock Off is now quite uncommon and Pursuit no longer exist.
- Status