I would honestly not use Galvantula as it does get killed by Darts from Dragapult. Smthng like Ribombee is probs more reliable as it is faster + has some stuff like stun spore too.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)
- Thread starter TPP
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What are some thoughts on Sun? I figure it's still inferior to Rain, but it got some perks this gen. Heavy Duty Boots means the sole Drought user, Torkoal, can come in more times to get sun up. There's a Dynamax move which name escapes me that also creates sun. I'm also intrigued by Heliolisk's potential to break open common cores.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Timid Nature
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
- Weather Ball
- Surf / Solar Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice / Volt Switch
Sun turns Weather Ball into a 100 BP Fire move that's guaranteed to OHKO Ferrothorns expecting an Electric move. Solar Power boosted Thunderbolt has a 68% chance to OHKO Toxapex. You're going to be taking a ton of recoil damage, you're effected by all entry hazards, and Heliolisk's paper defenses means it can't stomach even neutral hits, but maybe its type coverage and firepower means it's worth a shot.
Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Timid Nature
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
- Weather Ball
- Surf / Solar Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hyper Voice / Volt Switch
Sun turns Weather Ball into a 100 BP Fire move that's guaranteed to OHKO Ferrothorns expecting an Electric move. Solar Power boosted Thunderbolt has a 68% chance to OHKO Toxapex. You're going to be taking a ton of recoil damage, you're effected by all entry hazards, and Heliolisk's paper defenses means it can't stomach even neutral hits, but maybe its type coverage and firepower means it's worth a shot.
Galvantula has a perfectly accurate Thunder Wave, as well as 91% accurate Thunder, which it can use to threaten opposing Araquanid with solid damage, or basically any non-Ground non-Electric type with paralysis more accurately than Stun Spore would. It does lack speed though, which is its biggest flaw, I'm just saying don't totally discount it either.
EDIT: it's also worth noting that it also outspeeds Araq, giving you the chance to cripple it early, making Galv worth considering as a counter-lead if Araq becomes even more prevalent than it already was.
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Weirdly enough, I've had a huge change of heart in regards to this meta game. I went from hating it to having a good deal of fun. I won 30 games in row so maybe that helps lol
I'm really liking Umbreon atm. Wish users are so rare in this post-dexit era and Umbreon is basically the only good user of the move at this point. When combined with things like Hatterene that have awesome utility and usable bulk but no reliable recovery, you can get a ton of mileage out of Wish passing right now. Being a defensive dark type with good mixed bulk is very useful in this meta where people are spamming ghosts, and it happens to synergise very well with Toxapex, who is a clear frontrunner in this meta game. It lost Toxic in Gen 8 but I'm having good success with using Yawn instead, which forces a lot of switches. It's very nice if you have hazards up.
Hatterene is amazing. The fact that Pex can essentially do nothing to this mon makes it such a good meta pick rn. You just bring in something that forces in Pex and then double to this thing and wreck havoc. Between its STABs and Mystic Fire, your opponent has to predict very correctly to not take a lot of damage and because Pex can literally do nothing, you hardly get punished for over predicting your opponents switch-ins. Magic Bounce is wonderful in a meta where defog isn't as widespread and G-Corsola is an amazing spin blocker. If you play correctly, you can almost always keep the hazard advantage if you have a Pex and a G-Corsola.
As more bugs get fixed and understanding of the mechanics grow, this meta is becoming much more fun.
I'm really liking Umbreon atm. Wish users are so rare in this post-dexit era and Umbreon is basically the only good user of the move at this point. When combined with things like Hatterene that have awesome utility and usable bulk but no reliable recovery, you can get a ton of mileage out of Wish passing right now. Being a defensive dark type with good mixed bulk is very useful in this meta where people are spamming ghosts, and it happens to synergise very well with Toxapex, who is a clear frontrunner in this meta game. It lost Toxic in Gen 8 but I'm having good success with using Yawn instead, which forces a lot of switches. It's very nice if you have hazards up.
Hatterene is amazing. The fact that Pex can essentially do nothing to this mon makes it such a good meta pick rn. You just bring in something that forces in Pex and then double to this thing and wreck havoc. Between its STABs and Mystic Fire, your opponent has to predict very correctly to not take a lot of damage and because Pex can literally do nothing, you hardly get punished for over predicting your opponents switch-ins. Magic Bounce is wonderful in a meta where defog isn't as widespread and G-Corsola is an amazing spin blocker. If you play correctly, you can almost always keep the hazard advantage if you have a Pex and a G-Corsola.
As more bugs get fixed and understanding of the mechanics grow, this meta is becoming much more fun.
Super new to competitive (haven't played a new Pokemon game since Heart Gold), but I've been heaving a lot of fun today leading with Ludicolo running Scald, Giga Drain, Ice Beam, and Leaf Storm with Assault Vest. GMax right away and set up Rain and/or Grassy Terrain against anything that doesn't resist. Ice Beam gives Max Hail which adds good coverage and lets you break Sash leads. Leaf Storm is there for added power when you can't GMax.
The rest of my team is a huge WIP, but Leadicolo seems legit.
The rest of my team is a huge WIP, but Leadicolo seems legit.
Thoughts on Zard? Specially Belly Zard, I think being inmune now to Stealth Rock thanks to the new item may make this set viable again like in older generations. Gigamaxing power up massively his huge moveset coverage, with electric, fire and ground/fighting/rock options and still be able to surprise checks with options like solar beam or hurricane bluffing a full physical set for things like unaware Quagsire.
A Belly Drum set is probably outclassed by monstrous Darmanitan, but Zard its naturally faster and still gets the job done on would be check like araquanid, pelipper or gyarados thanks to thunder punch and OHKoing Toxapex with little prior damage. It can also work a bit with the surprise factor of brick break to kill Tyranitar, Hydreigon or Snorlax while still outspeeding most of the metagame. Variants with dragon dance can work as well since dyna fighting move increases your attack while you cover yourself up from any revenge killer under 100. Altho I think it could be a huge 4th slot syndrome, wouldn't it be able to reliably defeat a lot of teams?
I understand it's probably not that simple to pull off, but I just wanna know if either belly drum or sword dance might be viable options for Zard now because there aren't as much mons that outsped him like in the past nor Stealth Rock to wear it down like before/more options to fight it and idk, maybe I just miss gen 2-3 sets.
A Belly Drum set is probably outclassed by monstrous Darmanitan, but Zard its naturally faster and still gets the job done on would be check like araquanid, pelipper or gyarados thanks to thunder punch and OHKoing Toxapex with little prior damage. It can also work a bit with the surprise factor of brick break to kill Tyranitar, Hydreigon or Snorlax while still outspeeding most of the metagame. Variants with dragon dance can work as well since dyna fighting move increases your attack while you cover yourself up from any revenge killer under 100. Altho I think it could be a huge 4th slot syndrome, wouldn't it be able to reliably defeat a lot of teams?
I understand it's probably not that simple to pull off, but I just wanna know if either belly drum or sword dance might be viable options for Zard now because there aren't as much mons that outsped him like in the past nor Stealth Rock to wear it down like before/more options to fight it and idk, maybe I just miss gen 2-3 sets.
Ema Skye
Work!
I doubt this will have any impact in OU, but according to Serebii, Moody has been updated. Accuracy and Evasion stats aren't affected by the random boosts. Does this ability need to be banned still (since the primary motivation was Evasion boosting)? Only users are Glalie and Octillery so it's likely only going to do anything in the hypothetical NU if it were unbanned.
Related note: How are we feeling about Mimikyu given that busting Disguise now deals 1/8th HP in recoil?
Related note: How are we feeling about Mimikyu given that busting Disguise now deals 1/8th HP in recoil?
It can set its own sand for Sand Rush, and Mold Breaker kills Rotom-W which is a strong anti-meta mon.
Where Excadrill really shines, though, is Ubers, because every relevant mon there is weak to Ground and it can outspeed every common mon except Scarf Zamazenta while in Sand.
I'm by no means a competitive Pokemon player, just have lurked around here.
That's said... I'd like to see what you guys think about baton pass gigamax togekiss. I think he can make a great baton passer. He can nasty plot, then gigamax into STAB wind, and baton pass +2-3 speed and +2 SP attack to another pokemon.
Any thoughts on this? Is it viable or am I just a noob that doesn't know any better? And if viable what does a potential team look like?
That's said... I'd like to see what you guys think about baton pass gigamax togekiss. I think he can make a great baton passer. He can nasty plot, then gigamax into STAB wind, and baton pass +2-3 speed and +2 SP attack to another pokemon.
Any thoughts on this? Is it viable or am I just a noob that doesn't know any better? And if viable what does a potential team look like?
Ema Skye
Work!
Baton Pass is banned on Showdown
Toge seems like a good user though. Really anything with Max Airstream seems at least good because it's so ridiculous. Max Fighting off of Aura Sphere exists for Steels, though the boost is pretty useless.
Ahh forgot about that ban thanks. Just getting back into Pokemon after XY.
Another Web setter is the new Orbeetle, whith recover, momentun and phys bulk
BigBeatle (Orbeetle) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 Spe
Impish Nature
- Sticky Web
- U-turn
- Recover
- Body Press
Enought speed for Taunt Corviknight and Taunt Mandibuzz
Body Press is use to check Excadrill and Tytar.. BP do 60% to Excadrill
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FYI, Baton Pass was banned at the start of the generation. The strategy has proven to be broken pretty much every generation it's in, and this time around, it even got a buff in Polteageist, a Shell Smash user with Baton Pass that can't even be punished because Pursuit isn't in the game. On top of that, Dynamax can even deny phazing.
So I've played around on Showdown a bit in gens 6 and 7 but never created an account
Anyway, it might be kind of gimmicky, but I think people might be sleeping on Alolan Raichu here. I've been running it with Choice Scarf and dynamaxing it fairly often, and I think it's got potential (maybe someone more experienced can make more of this than I can). It might be a little gimmicky, but I think it has a lot of potential as a Dynamax
A-Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Surge Surfer
252 SpA/252 Spe/4...SpD? (not sure what is best there or if it even amounts to much)
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Psychic
- Focus Blast/Volt Switch/Grass Knot
This outspeeds a Gyarados after a Dragon Dance and one shots it. Also makes pretty short work of Toxapex (sorry, don't know how to do calcs or I'd show them, but it's worked pretty well for me). You get the speed boost from Choice Scarf the turn you Dynamax still, so you can Dynamax with your electric type move and Surge Surfer will kick in for double speed. You can then set Rain, or switch to Psychic Terrain if you're dealing with stall/a lot of status setters. Focus Blast and Grass Knot provide some additional coverage, and you can Volt Switch to pivot out after your Dynamax ends. Works pretty well with Barraskuda if you set rain, you can run it with Hawlucha if you're using Electric Seed...and in both cases, you can dynamax with the other partner and Raichu can still capitalize on it.
I don't think it's amazing or anything, and it doesn't have the snowball effect that but I think with how dominating Gyarados and Toxapex are in the meta right now, it can serve a pretty valuable niche, plus providing good Rain or Terrain support for the rest of your team, which can be tweaked to fit your needs.
I don't know, thoughts?
Anyway, it might be kind of gimmicky, but I think people might be sleeping on Alolan Raichu here. I've been running it with Choice Scarf and dynamaxing it fairly often, and I think it's got potential (maybe someone more experienced can make more of this than I can). It might be a little gimmicky, but I think it has a lot of potential as a Dynamax
A-Raichu @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Surge Surfer
252 SpA/252 Spe/4...SpD? (not sure what is best there or if it even amounts to much)
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Psychic
- Focus Blast/Volt Switch/Grass Knot
This outspeeds a Gyarados after a Dragon Dance and one shots it. Also makes pretty short work of Toxapex (sorry, don't know how to do calcs or I'd show them, but it's worked pretty well for me). You get the speed boost from Choice Scarf the turn you Dynamax still, so you can Dynamax with your electric type move and Surge Surfer will kick in for double speed. You can then set Rain, or switch to Psychic Terrain if you're dealing with stall/a lot of status setters. Focus Blast and Grass Knot provide some additional coverage, and you can Volt Switch to pivot out after your Dynamax ends. Works pretty well with Barraskuda if you set rain, you can run it with Hawlucha if you're using Electric Seed...and in both cases, you can dynamax with the other partner and Raichu can still capitalize on it.
I don't think it's amazing or anything, and it doesn't have the snowball effect that but I think with how dominating Gyarados and Toxapex are in the meta right now, it can serve a pretty valuable niche, plus providing good Rain or Terrain support for the rest of your team, which can be tweaked to fit your needs.
I don't know, thoughts?
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Just a heads up: After some testing and inquiring on the battle mechanics research thread, it appears that Gorilla Tactics does not boost Dynamax moves. From this, it can be reasonably inferred that Choice Band and Choice Specs probably don't boost them either. Choice Scarf's interaction with the mechanic is still up in the air, but I somehow doubt it'll be much different.
I'm pretty sure it works similar to old Mega Evo mechanics. It calculates speed before dynamaxing, and then stats recalc after Dynamax. So you'll get the speed boost the turn you dynamax and nothing after. I could be wrong though.
Probably not. It's been shown in research thread that SwSh recalculate speed immediately.
a soundproof set of boomburst[or any other sound move], clanging scales, clangorous soul and substitute could be quite an effective ditto bait, which is incredibly common and dangerous in the HO orientated metagame. this set turns it in to set up fodder, as ditto cannot touch it, and is forced out by lack of pp. meanwhile, kommo-o can sub up to stop ditto from coming in again and can continue to set up with soul, which can be incredibly scary.
leftovers or a pinch berry would be the best item here, as it increases how much you can set-up with kommo-o.
it is worth noting however, that it gets walled by mimikyu [although from experience that isn't common] and steels resist both of the coverage, so a partner of sash dugtrio could be effective [before it/if it gets banned lol]
scarf rotom-wash has been used for pretty much the same niche (minus some coverage) and has the bulk to take a hit from gyara
I know people will disagree with me, but Eiscue is really good. I have swept entire teams with it.
Essentially, I have it come in on a physical attacker, and use that opportunity to set up Belly Drum. Ice Face takes the hit, I get +4 attack, and his speed skyrockets to a nice base 130. With Icicle Crash and Liquidation, it hits very hard. Bulky water types are a problem, but it also gets Head Smash. Not sure if it is overused, but the thing is powerful
Essentially, I have it come in on a physical attacker, and use that opportunity to set up Belly Drum. Ice Face takes the hit, I get +4 attack, and his speed skyrockets to a nice base 130. With Icicle Crash and Liquidation, it hits very hard. Bulky water types are a problem, but it also gets Head Smash. Not sure if it is overused, but the thing is powerful
Sayuze
Banned deucer.
Hey, thought I'd make a post about Sand Balance. I made a post earlier in this thread but I felt like it was too rushed and not to the point. But I feel like not many people have been talking about or showing traction, nor have many people been using it (from what I've been seeing).
Anyway, over the past few days, I have been breezing through ladder and I would like to believe it's due to the spam of Sand Balance in the form of:
+
along with
+
+
/
and then some speed control such as
/
.
These kind of cores are well suited for the meta right now imo. They have tools to beat offense, stall, and anything in between.
Starting off, the obviously true and tried core of TTar + Drill. I have tried support tar and band tar, both work great. Then SD Drill is a staple. The thing about drill in SS OU is that this mon is so versatile. To emphasize, think of it like this: It can SD, it can get a speed boost from spin very easily, it can get its defense boosted from the Dynamax Iron Head... This mon can literally setup on its own and win in certain scenarios. It's pretty insane. I had a game earlier where a scarf rotom Volt Switch'd on me as I spun (+1 speed boost), I SD'D on the switch then when he tried to kill me with his Hippowdon I dynamax'd and got the +1 Defense raise (along w/ the attack increase from Dynamax), leading me to just sweep with Drill himself, no sand needed or anything. This mon is super capable especially with Dynamax mechanics.
The defensive core of Ferro + Clef + Rotom/Pex is really good too. I think ferro is a god mon in the sense that it can beat mons 1v1 such as Gyara/Barraskewda/Excadrill with a simple Dynamax button. As well as Leech + Protect and Spikes are really good supporting moves. Clef, even without Softboiled in the form as an LO attacker or Bulky CM mon (w/ Moonlight/Wish ) is just good in general for being able to reliably pressure fat builds that are being commonly used. There isn't much downside to this mon as it can also beat stuff like Dragapult/Offensive Fighting types. It's really good imo. And you have your bulky water.
Top this all off with a Dragapult or something else of your choice for speed control as back up.
Anyway, I think that this is a more consistent playstyle from stall / cheese-y offense from what I've seen. I haven't really encountered too many tough matchups where I can't outplay which has definitely intrigued me a bit to spread the word about how these types of archetypes are good in the meta.
Good replays showcasing it:
Anyway, over the past few days, I have been breezing through ladder and I would like to believe it's due to the spam of Sand Balance in the form of:
These kind of cores are well suited for the meta right now imo. They have tools to beat offense, stall, and anything in between.
Starting off, the obviously true and tried core of TTar + Drill. I have tried support tar and band tar, both work great. Then SD Drill is a staple. The thing about drill in SS OU is that this mon is so versatile. To emphasize, think of it like this: It can SD, it can get a speed boost from spin very easily, it can get its defense boosted from the Dynamax Iron Head... This mon can literally setup on its own and win in certain scenarios. It's pretty insane. I had a game earlier where a scarf rotom Volt Switch'd on me as I spun (+1 speed boost), I SD'D on the switch then when he tried to kill me with his Hippowdon I dynamax'd and got the +1 Defense raise (along w/ the attack increase from Dynamax), leading me to just sweep with Drill himself, no sand needed or anything. This mon is super capable especially with Dynamax mechanics.
The defensive core of Ferro + Clef + Rotom/Pex is really good too. I think ferro is a god mon in the sense that it can beat mons 1v1 such as Gyara/Barraskewda/Excadrill with a simple Dynamax button. As well as Leech + Protect and Spikes are really good supporting moves. Clef, even without Softboiled in the form as an LO attacker or Bulky CM mon (w/ Moonlight/Wish ) is just good in general for being able to reliably pressure fat builds that are being commonly used. There isn't much downside to this mon as it can also beat stuff like Dragapult/Offensive Fighting types. It's really good imo. And you have your bulky water.
Top this all off with a Dragapult or something else of your choice for speed control as back up.
Anyway, I think that this is a more consistent playstyle from stall / cheese-y offense from what I've seen. I haven't really encountered too many tough matchups where I can't outplay which has definitely intrigued me a bit to spread the word about how these types of archetypes are good in the meta.
Good replays showcasing it:
Attachments
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not only is it great for the reasons you mentioned, but dynamaxing and using max ice move resets the cube. This thing is redonk
In my opinion, these are some of the best mons and will have a slot in OU once everything is sorted out.
Returning mons
/
same old, same old.
Dynamax Gyara is OP
And here I was thinking that without the Tapus this mon would drop. ( How wrong I was)
With a lot of its checks gone,Drill is ready to dominate the meta again ( with or without Sand support )
The Scarf set is the only one seeing effective use now, but that doesn't make Washrotom any less effective.
New mons
The fact that I need several mons to counter this speaks to how good this is.
This guy can function as a rain sweeper, anti rain or Banded beast.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Not as good as hyped but still a good wall nevertheless.
Also not as good as hyped, but I think its Choice Specs set will keep it afloat.
Also both arena trap and shadow tag need to be banned.
Returning mons
New mons
Also both arena trap and shadow tag need to be banned.
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