Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion v4 (check out posts #483 and 484 for DLC1 info!)

[Monky25]

Here's my own take on the DLC tier list so far, mostly focusing on OU viability like the others. (Sorry for the long post btw)

- Chansey is going to definitely impact the meta-game, being a solid alternate wish passer and being a huge special wall. It'll be able to block special attackers such as Gengar, Dragapult, Specs Aegislash, Kyurem, Hydreigon, rotom-heat (be wary of toxic) and the incoming volcarona. it'll probably do the same stuff as last gen, setting up rocks and status with thunder wave or toxic while forcing many special walls out. Still, it'll be beaten by conkeldurr, zeraora, bisharp, cinderace, and other physicall attackers. Also Telewish Chansey is illegal so i see wish being picked more, yet teleport will also be a useful move in its arsenal.

- Heavy Duty Boots have blessed this mon. It's able to set up on common mons such as Corviknight and ferrothron while also being a fearsome special wallbreaker. This will definitely impact the tier and it can even beat bulky waters such as gastrodon, and prim with giga drain. It does have 4MSS thought, wanting to run quiver dance, stab fire blast and bug buzz, but needs coverage in psychic for toxapex and giga drain for bulky waters. It also can run roost for recovery, but in a metagame of wish passing it can forego it.

- Teleport and regenerator on this thing is going to be fucking nasty. It's able to pivot out and get it's health back while also checking many physical attackers such as cinderace, excadrill, mamowsine, hawlucha, and terrakion. It can also go offensive with it's broad moveset and nasty plot and can even use body press in it's own niche sets. Still, this mon doesn't appreciate ghost attackers in the tier, while hydriegon can set up on slowbro and it can only either pivot out or damage with body press. Definitely will be a solid mon though.

-This mon has excellent bulk, regenerator, and great splashibility in the metagame. It is able to be either a special or physical wall and has a broad movepoll. In addition, this will be a bitch to kill with wish spam to keep it alive. It checks many threats like terrakion, keldeo, bisharp, and mimikyu while forcing gout stuff like bulky waters and hippowdon. and has a staying place in the metagame.

- belly drum azu is going to be a monster. With the exception of ferrothron and toxapex ( best azu usually is drum, aqua jet, liqui, and play rough), no other physical wall can take more than 2 hits from it.
Examples:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 866-1022 (206.1 - 243.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 218-258 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 342-404 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 469-553 (117.2 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (struggles to beat without belly drum boost)

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o: 444-528 (125.4 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 207-244 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 154-183 (37.1 - 44.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are just some calcs to show Azumairll's wall breaking power. It also has priority to nail stuff like terrakion, volcarona, cinderace, and excadrill. Very powerful wallbreaker and will be fearsome under the rain.

- I see magnezone being actually good in this current metagame. It deals with corv and skarmory by trapping, so it'll be OU just because of that. It can run body press to deal with bisharp, but cannot beat ferro without hp fire. It still deals with stuff like Toxapex, Primirna, scizor (be wary of knock off) mandibuzz, togekiss, and the infamous clef. It'll be useful in OU but won't be as good as it used to be without hp fire.

- Not much to say suprisingly, i feel that corv has dispalced this mon as the steel-flying type of OU. It just is better than skarm in every way, with the exception hazards. I can see it being viable in OU but I wouldn't be surprised if it drops to UU this gen actually.

- This will be a good hazard remover, utilizing rapid spin, psychic, hydro pump, and last move can vary. It has good matchups against stuff like tyranitar, excadrill, togekiss, conekleudrr, and Kommo-0, while being fatser than the majority of the metagame. being a psychic type isn't that good in OU now with stuff like Pult, Zera, U-turn on cinderace, scarf gengar, and walls like clef and chansey running around. Might be OU but I can see this dropping to UU.

- Heavy Duty Boots helps this thing, might be a bit overhyped but it is extremely fast in this metagame, damaging stuff like ferrothron and threats like hydra, also can do major damage to incoming dlc drops like volcarona with priority brave bird and tangrowth, who fears both it's stabs.

-If krook was in the absegame, it would have a field day in OU. It has a fanatstic offensive typing in ground-dark and has a great speed tier. It'll have a mich damagingstuff like aegislash, gengar not using focus blast, and mew. Still, it gets hurt by lots of premier threats like cloyster, cc zera, conkeldurr, halwucha, and rillaboom. Might have some precense in OU but I can see it going to UU.

- this thing will bring back rain alongside azumarill to the OU tier. Has hurricane now to improve it's shit movepool, so welcome back pelipper ig.

-Mostly just an inferior chansey tbh, want to see other's thoughts on this

 

[Tysonslayer]

This mon is going to be really good upon release with the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots helping it out a lot because of its Stealth Rock weakness. The only thing stopping this thing is going to be Chansey , but besides that once this thing sets up it's going to be an absolute threat in blowing through a lot of teams. It's last moveset in reality could be played around with such as Roost for better longevity for more bulky Volcaronas. Psychic seems mandatory tbh in hitting Toxapex and Kommo-o effectively, Giga Drain is a nice option for the likes of bulky waters that want to switch in into Volcarona , but Bug Buzz is also super nice on hitting Hydreigon and Tyranitar , so the movesets could be played around with depending on the team it is in.


By far one of the most exciting mons to return in the tier tbh , an amazing defensive switchin against Zeraora that the tier needed. As another bulky grass type added to the tier , and can really be either Physical Defensive or Special Defensive depending on the team making this a really solid addition to ou. Tangrowth has access to some nice utility and coverage moves like Knock Off , Sludge Bomb , Earthquake , Sleep Powder and some more , the biggest loss for this mon in the removal of Hidden Power , but I still think it would be fine without it.


Access to Teleport and Regenerator gives Slowbro a big advantage of a defensive pivot that can bring momentum , while being able to recovery switching thanks to its incredible ability. Being an incredible switchin against the likes of Excadrill , Cloyster, Cinderace , Hawlucha also makes it a solid addition to the tier.


Behold the pink fat blob, Chansey is going to influence the meta one way or another just how fat is on handing some of the tiers strongest special attackers. Everyone knows Chansey has access to teleport on it's moveslot which would be used in Chansey Offense and no longer being momentum drain in those teams. Wish is going to be really nice to be used on Chansey to keep teammates healthy and the utility moves it provides are also really nice like Stealth Rock , Toxic , Thunder Wave, and Heal Bell.


These 4 are going to be some of the best mons that we are receiving in DLC and definitely will bring an impact in the tier that will shake things out a lot for the tier. There are some other mons I didn't touch upon yet and will probably talk about them later , but wanted to get the big four out of the way.

 

[Colonel M]

View attachment 254124- belly drum azu is going to be a monster. With the exception of ferrothron and toxapex ( best azu usually is drum, aqua jet, liqui, and play rough), no other physical wall can take more than 2 hits from it.
Examples:
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 866-1022 (206.1 - 243.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 218-258 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mandibuzz: 342-404 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 469-553 (117.2 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (struggles to beat without belly drum boost)

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Liquidation vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o: 444-528 (125.4 - 149.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 80 Def Primarina: 207-244 (57 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 154-183 (37.1 - 44.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

These are just some calcs to show Azumairll's wall breaking power. It also has priority to nail stuff like terrakion, volcarona, cinderace, and excadrill. Very powerful wallbreaker and will be fearsome under the rain.

Personally disagree. I think the best set will be close to what it ran in SM - Drum / Jet / PR / Knock. Knock is still a really good neutral ground for Ferrothorn and Toxapex - which otherwise can be massive roadblocks to Azumarill. Liquidation might see some fringe use every now and then, but I think Knock Off just remains the superior middle-ground option.

No Mega Stones or Z Crystals alone make Knock Off even more appealing too - so stuff like Slowbro is far from safe.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

To start off, none of them strike me as “meta-defining”, akin to Clef and Corv, so there are no S-tiers. I placed Chansey, Slowbro, and Tangrowth in A+ because of their insane bulk and excellent utility/splashability. Volcarona will be a potent sweeper, with nothing walling all of its sets except Chansey. It can also run bulky Wisp + Roost sets.

These sets also have a new option to play with in Mystical Fire. It's weaker and has less PP than Flamethrower, but it gives Volcarona a less passive way to mess with special attackers.

 

[Empress Mobile]

Starmie looks to be back with a vengeance. Analytic Hydro Pump deters most spin spinblockers from switching in, and it has a good matchup against quite a few relevant rockers like Hippowdon and Excadrill. Im also curious about BD Poliwrath in the rain. I feel it could overwhelm traditional rain answers.

 

[Yoshiblaze]

Personally disagree. I think the best set will be close to what it ran in SM - Drum / Jet / PR / Knock. Knock is still a really good neutral ground for Ferrothorn and Toxapex - which otherwise can be massive roadblocks to Azumarill. Liquidation might see some fringe use every now and then, but I think Knock Off just remains the superior middle-ground option.

No Mega Stones or Z Crystals alone make Knock Off even more appealing too - so stuff like Slowbro is far from safe.

For Belly Drum Azu, Knock Off is still really good as always, but looking at the new moves it got, I feel like High Horsepower might be a good option, since it guarantees an OHKO on Toxapex before it can Haze you without needing chip and still KOes Ferro after some chip while most other Knock targets fold to Play Rough like Slowbro. You do give up Knock's general utility, but it may be a cool option to guarantee that Toxapex can't end a sweep


+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 536-632 (176.3 - 207.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 136-160 (44.7 - 52.6%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Black Sludge recovery
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill High Horsepower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 299-352 (84.9 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

 

[Vengeance417]

Unfortunately I think Natural Cure and Teleport are illegal, as otherwise defensive sets would have had some interesting methods to predict switches. Lack of Pursuit is a big buff for Starmie, though, since it means that it isn't easily punished in sets that it could use. I think there's some opportunities for Starmie to come back even though Ferrothorn and Chansey exist in the tier. Analytic is really strong offensively when defensive Pokemon switch into it, and Chansey will forever be prone to entry hazards since it's forced to run Eviolite.

Natural Cure + Teleport WILL be legal. Pokemon from LGPE do not come with their hidden abilities, unlike those from the VC ports (aka Slowbro).

 

[Martin]

Decided some definitions were wrong after the fact but fuck going back and changing them. Mons in each tier are unordered. Here are my thoughts on every Pokémon listed:

Sincerely very excited about this thing. A very welcome addition for any archetype that needs the option to pivot around. Gaining Teleport is a massive boon for it and I think that style of pivoting will likely come to define this generation (IMO for the better). Much welcome with Cinderace kicking about too, as well as a much more sturdy response to Conkeldurr than anything we have now outside of niche stuff like Cofag and Weezing. Really likes the fact there's no more Pursuit too, as it means no more Tyranitar mindgames when it's sitting at around 40% or w/e the point where it's in crunch range but out of 'suit range is.

Also gets Teleport now. Provides a much-needed all-purpose special sponge (our good options consist of diddley, squat, and mandi, and pex) and has a move other than Healing Wish to let it not be a total momentum sap on offense. Also gives us a cleric that's slightly less bleh than Clefable, hopefully mending the Toxic problem this tier currently has.

A much needed Ground-type resist. Eases that demand for running one of Rillaboom/Hippo/Corviknight on balance to deal with the Excadrill matchup consistently.

Heavy Duty Boots Volcarona. Need I say more? Thankfully doesn't break Chansey.

I know it's weird to mention this so far up on a list that has Chansey, but there are a number of things that Blissey does better than Chansey: it can run Shadow Ball viably to help with Aegislash/Gengar/Dragapult (esp. Sub variants); it can run CM+BoltBeam viably to take advantage of Tauntless Hydreigon on stall (VERY hard matchup if you don't want to run Unaware Clef or Sylveon); it can even just run Ice Beam for that MU too. The added SpA brings a lot to the table that Chansey simply doesn't, so I think it will be worth exploring once the new meta comes out.

This 'mon hits like a truck. Will do Azu things the same as it always does, and unlike last gen not everything else is retarded. Except Toxapex. That mon's still retarded.

Mienshao has always been a cool Pokemon. It's a Fighting-type with access to U-turn+Knock Off+Regenerator, and it now even gets Close Combat so you don't have to rely on HJK as your only STAB move. Of course, you can still run Reckless+HJK, which hits like a truck as it always did, although the presence of Toxapex and Slowbro may make a set like that questionable especially when Conkeldurr exists now.

This is a weird case. Losing HP Fire is a massive bummer, but it also traps both Corv and Skarmory. I expect the main sets to be Specs with idk-what-the-fuck in slot 4 and Air Balloon+Magnet Rise+Thunderbolt+Iron Defense+Body Press.

Competent swift swimmer. Might make rain viable again.

No more competition from Mega Scizor and a much-needed Freeze Dry resist. I expect to see a lot of Choice Band and SpD SD variants.

Corviknight which exchanges special bulk and BU/Power Trip for access to Whirlwind, Spikes, and Counter as well as a stronger Body Press. All in all sounds pretty solid if you have a good specially defensive backbone in place.

Rapid Spin user, offensive Psychic-type. Could see it running either bulky or offensive. Being slower than Zeraora and Cinderace really hurts though, and if we get Greninja back it will be fairly hard to justify.

Interesting Swift Swimmer. Good offensive typing and movepool but sorta lame unboosted offenses. Very good matchup versus Bisharp is nice.

Cool utility options but just kinda hard to justify when Pelipper exists.

Actually has a lot of cool options; nice if you need a Ghost resist+Ground-type in one slot but the weakness to Fighting is super lame especially if you don't pair with something like Slowbro. Losing out on Pursuit is also very bad. Intimidate is a cool ability tho so we'll see if it ends up being better than I expect.

This things viability half hinges on how Gale Wings works this gen. If it gets buffed I could see it being very viable, if it doesn't it's hard to say. Its base Speed is very good though—being a Flying-type that is faster than Cinderace is a godsend.

This mon is just very "meh" at all of its jobs. Nice for punishing Cinderace and Zeraora very hard with Helmet+Rough Skin but otherwise difficult to justify over Kommo-o.

Toxic Spikes and posion/dragon typing sound cool but even with Adaptability its stats are a little underwhelming.

Dusk will be the only form worth bothering with. Don't use any others. Priority that RKs Volcarona is amazing tho.

It's Zoroark

The rest are just kinda… there. Either heavily outclassed or outright bad. Golduck could be cool for its access to Psychic+tied SpA stat with Kingdra, but there's nothing interesting there beyond that. I don't think it's fair to lump any of these mons in with the two Pikaclones tho, hence why they've been split up.

 

[LordHelix]

this gen seems pretty good for defensive starmie since it doesnt have to worry abt pursuit or momentum drain thanks to teleport+natural cure

Itll be nice status absorber and hazard remover for sure. Being able to spin and pivot on mons like kommo-o, hippo, pex, non pwhip ferro and spread status on them will be appreciated.

I think twave will be a very fun tool this gen because it punishes defensive starmie switchins and has great synergy with hex dragapult. Even stuff like tang, pex and clef will hate taking it cause it makes them much more vulnerable to hex

Offensive sets love the rapid spin speed boost as well but im not too sure abt offensive sets in general with all the fatmons running around

I know it's weird to mention this so far up on a list that has Chansey, but there are a number of things that Blissey does better than Chansey: it can run Shadow Ball viably to help with Aegislash/Gengar/Dragapult (esp. Sub variants); it can run CM+BoltBeam viably to take advantage of Tauntless Hydreigon on stall (VERY hard matchup if you don't want to run Unaware Clef or Sylveon); it can even just run Ice Beam for that MU too. The added SpA brings a lot to the table that Chansey simply doesn't, so I think it will be worth exploring once the new meta comes out.

Weirdly enough i was gonna mention this, have nothing more to add than potentially watch out for this as it seems it has an actual niche this time around

Ice beam to smack both hydreigon and dragapult is very valuable given how easily they set up on chansey. Holding a leftovers to negate the ever present sand and rocks chip will potentially help set it apart too

 

[War Incarnate]

Stuff aside, this is my first impressions for these pokemon. I might be wrong on some of these, so who knows?

Here we go

Chansey: Make stall great again. Yeah in all seriousness Chansey is going to be the big new toy of the DLC. Special attackers causing you problems? Chansey says hello. Ghosts like Aegislash (this is the only main special attacker I can think of that can bypass Chansey) do give it shit as Aegislash has CC, but Shadow Ball Blissey says hello. This mon can pass even bigger Wishes than Clefable, which is another thing.
Slowbro: Not sure what this will do, probs Teleport shenanigans but hey another Cinderace check is nice when there's virtually none.
Tangrowth: Read all the posts above me and you'll see why.
Volcarona: Do I need to explain this? HDB. That is all.
Magnezone: Losing HP Fire sucks. But you know what's better? It traps the 2 main Steel-types, Corviknight and Jirachi. Did I talk Scizor and Skarmory as well? Pretty damn good.
Scizor: Less competition from its mega evolution? That's already good. Plus it also checks Kyurem. I don't need to say more.
Skarmory: Another Spikes setter nobody asked for but hey, it's something. Obviously being able to not die against most physical attackers thanks to stupid high physical bulk + Roost is fantastic.
Azumarill: I've trashed this pokemon for a long ass time and it's not hard to see why. Hits like GDarm but over 9000x harder and even has priority. Toxapex says hello once more.
Blissey: Definitely not on the same level as Chansey but being a wall that doesn't need to worry about the Ghosts running around is very nice. Did I mention this can put in something offensively? That's pretty damn cool.
Kingdra: MAKE RAIN GREAT AGAIN! No, Rain has been and will always be bad without Mega Swampert. Moving on. Sounds like a good rain abuser though.
Krookodile: Too weak to Conkeldurr and no Pursuit but the resists of Dark/Ground are so worth having around.
Mienshao: Why use this over Conkeldurr? The lacking power of this thing makes it terrible, and it's walled by Toxapex and Slowbro (even factoring whatever coverage it gets). Next.
Starmie: An offensive Water-Psychic type that's slower than Zeraora and Cinderace (even though Starmie resists it) will be guaranteed to fail in OU.
Talonflame: Gale Wings is nice, but we have to wait and see how it works. If it works like how it did in Gen 7 it's gonna be p much garbo.
Zoroark: Same thing for Starmie but now you're weak to Conkeldurr. Next.
Lycanroc: Why use this over anything else? Yes priority that one-shots Volc will be nice and all but does this even have any usability?
Rest are flat out trash and Politoed and Poliwrath are as bad as the 2 pikaclones.

 

[Astra]

Okay, now after gathering some thoughts (and learning that Wish + Teleport is illegal on Chansey), I think I'm ready to discuss the potential of stall team in the first wave of DLC and potential ways for them to be structured.

Similar to last generation, Chansey is going to be an essential Pokemon on stall team in SS OU simply due to its immense specially defensive bulk, taking on special attackers like Hydreigon, Kyurem, and Aegislash. Teleport is certainly a great move to have for a Pokemon like it, and though it can't run Wish with it, the value of a pivot move with negative priority is amazing. Though, after thinking about it for a bit, I realized that Chansey definitely doesn't need to run Teleport as much as Pokemon like Clefable does. Chansey already has a lot on its plate but unfortunate can't fit it all in its stomach; Seismic Toss, Heal Bell, Soft-Boiled, Teleport, Wish, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock are moves Chansey can really take advantage of, but losing out of some unfortunately leaves some holes to patch up with the rest of the team. If I had to choose what moves Chansey should run, it should definitely be Seismic Toss, Heal Bell, Soft-Boiled, and Teleport (you could swap Teleport out for Stealth Rock but only when you really need to), preventing status while acting as a slow pivot after it clears status from whatever teammate comes in after.


Unfortunately, I feel like Clefable will be locked into being the Wish passer on stall teams, but that's simply because it's great at it. It'll most likely still be doing what it has been doing as of late, though I can hypothesize that some Clefable may opt to run Unaware instead of Magic Guard.


In terms of bulky Water-types, stall has a good selection to choose from. Both Slowbro and Toxapex will definitely be interchangeable depending on what exactly you want for your team; Slowbro acts as a great pivot with Teleport, while Toxapex offers utility with Toxic Spikes and Haze. I guess you can have both on the same team if you really wanted to, considering it only common weakness is Electric, but you'll probably need to run a Ground-type like Hippowdon. The reason why I put Vaporeon here is because it can fulfill the role as a bulky Water-type while also acting as a Wish passer, though the only real reason why you would do this is to free up Clefable to run another set (which can definitely be useful). Slowbro and Toxapex also have Regenerator, something Vaporeon can't really match up to.


Tangrowth's amazing physical bulk will make it a great pickup for stall teams. You can definitely run a specially defensive sets, but I think physically defensive sets will be more popular due to covering for the bulky Water-type of team better. It will definitely be run with Slowbro, creating a great Regenerator core backed up by Wish support. I think it's also one of the few Pokemon currently that has access to a reliable sleep move, so that's just the icing on the cake. Ferrothorn is here because is can be a option if you'd rather want a Pokemon with more mixed bulk, but I think Tangrowth will usually be the better option in most circumstances.


Nothing too much to say here; all stall teams need some sort of hazard removal. Corviknight and Skarmory have their own differences, though Skarmory has the upper hand in having a lot more Defense, and Corviknight has the benefit of having access to Pressure. Both of them, however, will most likely need to run Shed Shell to avoid being trapped by Magnezone. Mandibuzz has the advantage of not needing to worry about that, and it can be used to better deter Ghost-types like Dragapult and Aegislash, especially considering how Chansey can switch into them but can't actually do anything to it. Avalugg stands out like a sore thumb, but its here because it can provide hazard removal while also acting as a way to face opposing Chansey better thanks to Body Press.


Hippowdon and Kommo-o are both really good physical tanks that can offer Stealth Rock support to allow Chansey to run something else, as well as other things. Hippowdon can use Whirlwind to chip down the opposition, while Kommo-o can set up with Iron Defense and provide an switch-in to certain moves depending on if it's running either Bulletproof or Soundproof.


If you want to have a Pokemon on your stall team can offensively take advantage of the team wearing the opposition down (or just want your game to go quicker, though I'm not sure why you're running stall in the first place), then these two Pokemon I feel are going to be the prime choices. Volcarona simply can just shred through everything after one Quiver Dance, while Dragapult can take advantage of the rest of the team inducing the foes with status with Hex. What makes Pokemon like these ones much better options this generation is how Teleport users can get them on the field with absolutely no risk.

So, here are some potential team compositions I can see being run. They may not be perfect, though, since it's hard to build around a metagame that doesn't exist yet.


Dragapult can take advantage of the status Toxapex and Tangrowth can spread and can come in safely thanks to Teleport from Chansey and Clefable and perhaps U-turn from Corviknight. Toxapex can potentially be swapped out for Slowbro if you want an extra way to pivot into Dragapult, though you'll probably need to give it Toxic.


This is basically just full on stall. I particularly like Kommo-o here because it helps in the stall versus stall matchup (yuck) as a means to threaten opposing Chansey.


Unlike Dragapult, Volcarona only really needs to switch in onto a foe it can set up on, and there's no other way to do that other than with Teleport users. Avalugg is there to fulfill the roles as a spinner and a way to weaken Chansey, one the only Pokemon Volcarona will need help with.

I highly doubt these teams will be the standards for stall once the first wave of DLC comes out, but it's always fun to theorize about it, especially for an archetype that has been very weak so far this generation.

mfw these teams end up actually being the standard for stall and i'm blamed for correctly predicting them

 

[TURBODERP]

Not a new mon, but I think Mantine might see a rise in viability/usage as a bulky water Defogger due to the likelihood of Volcarona being common (to a lesser degree Kingdra too, as well as Zeraora probably dropping a bit in usage with Tangrowth coming back). With the lack of Z-moves or Hidden Power and the addition of HDB, Volcarona can't break Mantine, who can Haze and Toxic freely and unlike Pex/Primarina/Gastro, Mantine doesn't fear Giga Drain or Psychic, even boosted.

Of course, Chansey can basically do the same and doesn't suck up momentum as much, but Defog is still a nice niche Mantine has over it.

 

[Pokeron]

Prediction of mine: Due to the abundance of Knock Off, Blissey might be used more than Chansey in OU. Knock Off is a brain-dead, low risk-high reward move, perfect for the Smogon Playerbase.

The best check to Volcarona might be Gigalith, even if Giga Drain does massive damage. Sandstorm and Hail are the only ways to passively damage boots Volcarona. Or spamming Knock Off.

 

[Zach Parrott]

Prediction of mine: Due to the abundance of Knock Off, Blissey might be used more than Chansey in OU. Knock Off is a brain-dead, low risk-high reward move, perfect for the Smogon Playerbase.

The best check to Volcarona might be Gigalith, even if Giga Drain does massive damage. Sandstorm and Hail are the only ways to passively damage boots Volcarona. Or spamming Knock Off.

Considering that Chansey was OU for the entirety of Gen 7 (and likely Gen 6, I can't remember), I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this assessment is dead wrong.

Gigalith being a Volc check is interesting, but considering we have plenty of checks to it already (Chansey/Blissey, Mantine, Pex if not carrying Psychic, among others), I don't think Lith is gonna be that solid of a Volc check. Not only does Lith take a decent chunk from Giga Drain, but it has no reliable recovery making it a flimsy answer at best. Not to mention that sand chip is much less effective than rocks chip against Volc.

 

[fart goblin]

My opinion is the objective truth. All other tier lists are wrong. /s

Thoughts

Chansey: LOL
Slowbro: The addition of Teleport to its arsenal is pretty nice. Body Press + Iron Defense could be a fun meme, and Nasty Plot...I guess could work??
Volcarona: Not having to fear the R O C K S anymore and the slightly lower power level this gen brings out its full potential. Definitely one of the best additions in this wave of Pokemon.
Kingdra: Even more solid now that it got Hurricane, making Rain sweeping even easier for it.
Scizor: The removal of Mega-evos slightly hurts it, but fuck it we need a Clefable check and this thing does the job plus more
Skarmory: Still a solid hazards setter. By the way, did you know it learns Swords Dance? I only found that out recently
Azumarill: High Horsepower is a fine addition to fuck over Toxapex, its mortal enemy. Still kinda meh though, if I'm being honest. Use Band on it.
Krookodile: Where the fuck did Pursuit go?
Magnezone: RIP Hidden Power. Oh well.
Starmie: Has the potential to be a solid spinner. Gets Teleport too, that's nice

More Thoughts

Tangrowth: Yeah it's fine
Poliwrath: Why did it take this long for it to get decent moves? Same thing as Kingdra except slightly worse.
Blissey: Worse Chansey.
Dragalgae: Good bulk and decent SpA. Also good defensive typing. That's all I can say really
Lycanroc: You're not quite OU yet. UU maybe though (Dusk specifically)
Mienshao: The same as last gen.
Zoroark: Still flawed.
Talonflame: Yeah
Exeggutor: Still sucks even in Sun
Exploud: Keep spamming Scrappy Boombursts, old friend
Kanghaskhan: Removal of Mega-evos fucks it harder than Scizor.
Druddigon: I can see this becoming a gimmick for one week and then never seeing usage again
Politoed: Just use Pelipper instead.
Tauros: Same as last gen
Everything under D tier is complete trash

 

[lydian]

gonna give my two cents on some mons and join the cool kid's table:

a lot of people are sleeping on talonflame, and i lowkey believe it's going to be a stellar addition to ou. it's an outstanding offensive check to liberace, something that slowbro might not be the best at, since banded u-turns are gonna sting. and it's also very very valuable against volcarona, and in general a great anti offense mon, since with boots, it's not hard at all to keep it at full if you want. you can force a ton of switches with this mon and roost as rotom-w or rhyperior comes in etc, you know the drill.

volcarona is gonna be great, kinda auto wins if your opponent doesn't have one of spdef toxapex, chansey, talonflame, or i guess rain... and being able to switch into clefable and give no fucks about telewish is great. you just need to watch out for knock off or twave, which i definitely feel clefable is gonna want to run more often with volcarona around...

these two are gonna be great as well, the tier only has ferrothorn as its grass type, and that makes zeraora quite the headache... tangrowth is gonna be able to deal with it very comfortably, and amoonguss has the advantage of being immune to toxic, which i truthfully believe might be the best set in a dlc metagame, with tangrowth and hippowdown being as dominant as i expect them to be. these two are also great water resists, which will help very much against the newly buffed rain. and speaking of it...

i think these two will go a long way for rain teams. lo hurricane kingdra is gonna be a threat and a half being able to do this (252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 244+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 203-239 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) to tangrowth, and this (252+ SpA Life Orb Kingdra Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 204+ SpD Amoonguss: 242-286 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery) to amoonguss (yes, i know these are the sm spreads, but i'm too lazy to change them). ferrothorn still gonna be annoying, but fellow rain teammates can help with that. bdrum azumarill is also a fucking threat in rain. kyurem, hydreigon, and keldeo are all a roll after rocks (and dragapult is guaranteed) so any chip damage on these with rain up and it's a wrap... choice band is gonna be bad though...

skarmory will also be really good. body press makes it miles better than in previous gens, and the relative lack of offensive psychics and fairies makes its low spdef relatively passable. spikes is huge, and while missing out on u-turn sucks, it's definitely not the end of the world.

that's about it for the mons i wanted to talk about, i don't want to repeat anyone's words so i'll keep it at these that i actually have something to add! thanks to tpp and finchinator for organizing discussion as always, it's fun to speculate how next week's metagame will turn out like!

 

[ImperialGamer517]

View attachment 254169
My opinion is the objective truth. All other tier lists are wrong. /s

Thoughts

Chansey: LOL
Slowbro: The addition of Teleport to its arsenal is pretty nice. Body Press + Iron Defense could be a fun meme, and Nasty Plot...I guess could work??
Volcarona: Not having to fear the R O C K S anymore and the slightly lower power level this gen brings out its full potential. Definitely one of the best additions in this wave of Pokemon.
Kingdra: Even more solid now that it got Hurricane, making Rain sweeping even easier for it.
Scizor: The removal of Mega-evos slightly hurts it, but fuck it we need a Clefable check and this thing does the job plus more
Skarmory: Still a solid hazards setter. By the way, did you know it learns Swords Dance? I only found that out recently
Azumarill: High Horsepower is a fine addition to fuck over Toxapex, its mortal enemy. Still kinda meh though, if I'm being honest. Use Band on it.
Krookodile: Where the fuck did Pursuit go?
Magnezone: RIP Hidden Power. Oh well.
Starmie: Has the potential to be a solid spinner. Gets Teleport too, that's nice

More Thoughts

Tangrowth: Yeah it's fine
Poliwrath: Why did it take this long for it to get decent moves? Same thing as Kingdra except slightly worse.
Blissey: Worse Chansey.
Dragalgae: Good bulk and decent SpA. Also good defensive typing. That's all I can say really
Lycanroc: You're not quite OU yet. UU maybe though (Dusk specifically)
Mienshao: The same as last gen.
Zoroark: Still flawed.
Talonflame: Yeah
Exeggutor: Still sucks even in Sun
Exploud: Keep spamming Scrappy Boombursts, old friend
Kanghaskhan: Removal of Mega-evos fucks it harder than Scizor.
Druddigon: I can see this becoming a gimmick for one week and then never seeing usage again
Politoed: Just use Pelipper instead.
Tauros: Same as last gen
Everything under D tier is complete trash

Gotta have to disagree with some of these:

Magnezone - I absolutely disagree with the Magnezone nomination. It’s going to be decent and at least deserves an A. The reason for this is that it is able to trap metagame threats such as Corviknight and Skarmory thanks to Magnet Pull. It is also able to force out Slowbro as well, since Slowbro sets last gen and even for NatDex this generation run max Defense and minimal SpD investment.

Tangrowth - I think Tangrowth is ranked too low. Tangrowth fulfills lots of roles in this generation’s metagame. First of all, Tangrowth serves as a good check to prominent Ground-types such as Excadrill and Hippowdon, and since sand teams are increasing in usage since the Dracovish ban making rain teams horrible, Tangrowth is going to be seen a lot.

 

[zedhatool]

The DLC could signal the return of VoltTurn as a viable playstyle. This generation there have been heretofore relatively few users of U-Turn and Volt Switch in OU, and the general balkanization to hyperoffense and fat balance have relegated extant users to pivot roles as part of a team, rather than teams being built around the momentum gain of pivot moves (i.e. VoltTurn).

That won't necessarily be the case in the post-Isle of Armor metagame.
Returning in the DLC are:
and
Scizor is walled by Corviknight, Toxapex, and Skarmory. Magnezone beats these three, allowing Scizor to fire off banded U-turns all over the place.

A good partner for these will be . Cinderace can U-Turn, and beat things that the aforementioned pair struggle with, like Corviknight and Tyranitar, as well as potentially backup-checking Toxapex.

VoltTurn matches up quite well against balance, and could seriously disrupt some of the bulkier builds that will emerge from the DLC.

 

[ImperialGamer517]

Anyways here are my thoughts:

The introduction of Heavy-Duty Boots this gen have blessed this mon. It now has the freedom to switch-in any time, and it can serve as a good check to current Galar Dex mons like Excadrill and Ferrothorn, as well as incoming mons this DLC such as Tangrowth and Slowbro (maybe). The one problem Volcarona will face this gen is its old nemesis Chansey, who easily walls this thing.

Slowbro will be better this generation. The introduction of Body Press this generation and it being blessed with Teleport will result in an increase of its usage from last gen. This thing could function as a great defensive pivot thanks to Teleport.

Although losing one of its useful moves in HP Fire, Magnezone gains compensation by being able to trap metagame staples like Corviknight and Skarmory.

 

[Cuddly]

The Blob is back, but some bad news for it is the fact that Pursuit no longer exists, which has made switching in as a Ghost type nearly for free.
Aegislash, Gengar, and Sub variants of Dragapult will be a huge pain in Chansey’s egg pouch since all Chansey can really do is Teleport or Thunder Wave them. Aegislash and Gengar then can easily Sword Dance and Nasty Plot if Chansey lacks Thunder Wave, and Dragapult can then get a free Sub, which means free damage on anything else incoming.
Other than that, it’s a great stop to Special threats other than Gengar, so make sure you bring Bill Murray on your team.

Honestly, if it wasn’t for Toxapex, Rotom-H, Terrakion, and Chansey, this thing would without a doubt be ban worthy. Even with those Pokemon, Volcarona will likely be the first off the chopping block for returning Pokemon. Now with Heavy Duty Boots, buffed Rapid Spin, and Corviknight being nearly a free Defog, Volcarona can have a much more customizable team than it would otherwise.
Not only that, but it has an excellent speed tier for something with Quiver Dance is a meta that has a total of 7 Pokemon with over 100 Base speed (that is going to change with the DLC, but it won’t add that many more Pokemon with that speed and will be OU by usage).
The only thing it’ll miss is Z moves and Hidden Power, but when your main counterplay is now pretty easy to bypass for free, it’s definitely worth it for Volcarona.
()
Slowbro has seen some great success in National Dex OU, thanks to being one of the best checks to Mega Metagross/Darmanitan-G, and having access to a buffed Teleport.
Teleport is really nice, letting Slowbro pivot, tank damage for its frailer teammates, and then heal it off for free.
What really is a double-edge sword is the available Pokemon.
No Ash-Greninja is good.
Cinderace being completely physical is good.
Aegislash being amazing, not so good.
Zeraora being really good, not so much for Slowbro.
You get the picture.
It will have its uses, but also have some struggles.
(Oh, and while technically not confirmed, Slowking will also be nice too. Although if it’s not in the game, I’ll go eat at the trashiest fast food joint near where I live)

Glad to see Tangrowth return. It will need to fill in the gap left by Hidden Power being removed, but it can manage.
AssVest Tangrowth will be a great answer for Dragapult and especially Zeraora, so if your team struggles against these Pokemon, consider using Tangrowth.
It will easily be top tier.

The Crimson King has returned, and good news is that there is no more HP Fire and now it can hit Toxapex with Psycho Cut.
Unfortunately, that’s as much good news as it gets.
First, it lost pursuit.
Second, tons of Pokemon received Mystical Fire as coverage, so it’s like if HP Fire was upgraded.
Third, not only is Rotom-H, an amazing Pokemon currently, one of Scizor’s best counters, it’s also a much better Defogger than Scizor too.
Forth, so is Corviknight.
Fifth, Cinderace is also an amazing check to Scizor, which is one if the best offensive Pokemon.
Sixth, Bullet Punch is nice against Dragapult, but not so nice against Zeraora, and Dragapult can Fire Blast Scizor into oblivion.
Seventh, Aegislash was nerfed enough to drop to OU, and Scizor is screwed over by it since it no longer has pursuit.
Eighth, Volcarona will be one of the best Pokemon in the tier, and Scizor won’t help it out much besides picking off a special wall since Volcarona is an independent moth who doesn’t need a defogger.
For Scizor as a whole, this will be its worst Generation after Gen 4.

Sucks that it doesn’t have HP Fire any more, but at least it has Body Press, and that [lack of HP Fire] really will only affect the match up against Ferrothorn.
There isn’t much else to say since Magnezone is really simple. Being a Steel deleter and being good against Fairies too.

Lmao. This thing is mostly outclassed by Corviknight that using Skarmory might as well be a handicap. You’ll only use this thing if you really want Corviknight with Hazards, really want Body Press off a 140 Def, or really hate Rillaboom/Scizor.
Honestly, it’s not bad, it’s just Corviknight out shines it in nearly every way.

Finally, a Pokemon that appreciates there being no Pursuit. And a buffed Rapid Spin at that too.
Other good news is that Starmie is amazing against the 2 best Defoggers, Corviknight and Rotom-Heat.
It also doesn’t mind Gengar or Dragapult all that much either.
Gengar is easily beat by Psyshock, Dragapult doesn’t like being hit by Analytic Ice Beam on the switch, and Starmie can also run Natural Cure so that Hex isn’t doing maximum damage all the time.
The ghost Starmie has to worry about the most is Aegislash.
Starmie also really benefits from the Rapid Spin buff, letting it have a speed tier go from mid Tier Two to mid Tier Zero with Timid, and being the second fastest Pokemon in Tier One, with Modest, beating Scarf Jirachi with positive nature by 1 point.
With how very few thing will be outspeeding Starmie, Starmie could easily run modest, raining down stronger Hydro Pumps and Psyshocks, and punishing Priority Abusers even more.

Everything else, I don’t really have an opinion or it’s genuine garbage.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

As others have said, there's a good chance Talonflame will be much better this gen than the last. Not only does it benefit immensely from the timbs, and not only does it revenge kill Volcarona, another timbs user and the current scariest new addition, but it also has more ways of maintaining its priority with WishPort and delayed Healing Wish.

I wonder if Talonflame might start running Aerial Ace or Acrobatics alongside Brave Bird. Now that the timbs let it switch in and out without the constant fear of hazards clipping its wings, a priority move that lets you pick off a weakened foe and still come back later with priority intact could be more valuable. Just to be clear, it would still wear the timbs even if it uses Acrobatics. It's just trading a bit of power for a big boost in case it gets knocked off, and as mentioned earlier with WishPort and Healing Wish, taking damage from a Knock Off isn't as bad as it used to be.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but doesn't Skarm seem largely inferior to Corviknight? Its only real niches are 1. More physical defense (which actually isn't as big of an increase as some people are suggesting especially considering the huge SpD trade-off) and 2. Spikes/Stealth Rock which while definitely cool ain't enough to have them co-exist on an equal plane IMO especially since most of the weak mons like Volcarona and Talonflame will probably be running the timbs anyway.

People are also downplaying how bad the loss of Hidden Power is for Magnezone. On the one hand its only big matchup loss is Ferrothorn, but on the other hand that is a massive target to miss out on, and no Body Press does not come remotely close to compensating unless you run some whack Iron Defense set with a ton of investment.

 

[Cuddly]

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but doesn't Skarm seem largely inferior to Corviknight? Its only real niches are 1. More physical defense (which actually isn't as big of an increase as some people are suggesting especially considering the huge SpD trade-off) and 2. Spikes/Stealth Rock which while definitely cool ain't enough to have them co-exist on an equal plane IMO especially since most of the weak mons like Volcarona and Talonflame will probably be running the timbs anyway.

People are also downplaying how bad the loss of Hidden Power is for Magnezone. On the one hand its only big matchup loss is Ferrothorn, but on the other hand that is a massive target to miss out on, and no Body Press does not come remotely close to compensating unless you run some whack Iron Defense set with a ton of investment.

Yeah. Skarmory is C ranked in National Dex OU, which has physical threats like Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, and Darmanitan-G where it might be more useful as a check to those Pokemon. Skarmory might even be worse here since those threats don't exist and Corviknight is fine walling the rest. Not even the stronger Body Press will be really worth is since Corviknight still has the stronger Brave Bird/Iron Head and you only use Body Press for fending off Bisharp and pressuring Excadrill, on top of having U-turn for extra utility.
We may see Choice Band Skarmory since Body Press is boosted by Choice Band (yeah, Choice Band boosts Body Press, but not Eviolite), but I highly doubt it since Body Press is really gimmicky on non-defensive archetypes.

Also I feel half and half about Magnezone's i | i1 | ii | i_ of Hidden Power Fire and replacement with Body Press.
HP Fire was better for the Ferrothorn match-up, as Body Press is a contact move using the weaker uninvested Stat that hits Ferrothorn's stronger defense for x2 damage instead of x4, it could be worse.
Also, Body Press does help Magnezone against Excadrill if you have scarf Magnezone.
That it is to say it does a whooping 3.3% more than HP Fire does with Scarf and Timid.
252 SpA Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 186-220 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Def Magnezone Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 196-232 (54.2 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
See, it has a guaranteed 2HKO instead of a 92.6% chance to 2HKO. You just need to not get burned, have Excadrill at low enough HP, and hope Excadrill isn't scarfed or being boosted by Sand Rush.

 

[Tacotaco]

Keep Seismitoad in OU!

1. Dracovish ban means it's no longer forced to run Water Absorb
2. Rain team were meh at the start of the generation because there were no good special attackers. Now, we have Hurricane Kingdra coming back for an even better Mega Swampert-Kingdra core.
3. Its new Power Whip means it's not walled by Slowbro, Vaporeon and Rotom-W unlike Mega Swampert.
4. Other new abusers like Azumarill, Starmie and Hurricane Volcarona would overwhelm bulky waters and grasses.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Keep Seismitoad in OU!

1. Dracovish ban means it's no longer forced to run Water Absorb
2. Rain team were meh at the start of the generation because there were no good special attackers. Now, we have Hurricane Kingdra coming back for an even better Mega Swampert-Kingdra core.
3. Its new Power Whip means it's not walled by Slowbro, Vaporeon and Rotom-W unlike Mega Swampert.
4. Other new abusers like Azumarill, Starmie and Hurricane Volcarona would overwhelm bulky waters and grasses.

I wouldn't say Seismitoad is an upgrade from Mega Swampert. Seismitoad has Power Whip, which is definitely nice, and it's a little bit faster, but Mega Swampert dwarfs Seismitoad in every other stat. Compare Seismitoad's mediocre 95 Attack and okay 105/75/75 bulk with Mega Swampert's titanic 150 Attack and impressive 100/110/110 bulk.