Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread

[BigFatMantis]

Post Screens VR Update
With the recent ban of light clay by the UU council, it is no secret that the viability of plenty Pokemon has changed. Going to give some of my own screen related nominations, second a lot of the nominations expressed in the thread since I last posted, and even drop some discussion points to spark some new conversation. Now, lets get to it.​

My own nominations

to C/UR: Grimmsnarl's viability has basically been ruined by the screens ban. Screens are no longer up for long, not to mention it needs to get up two screens over two turns in addition to blocking defog attempts. Rises of glowbro, aegislash, primarina, and nihilego also dont do it any favors. So, where does this leave grimmsnarl? Frankly, I'm not too sure myself. I've seen offensive sets utilize its solid typing alongside BU RestTalk sets, but neither are too particularly strong. I've fought grimmsnarl on light clay less screens and needless to say it sucks. I lean toward C since screens aren't COMPLETELY dead just yet and has those other sets I've mentioned, but I don't think Grimmsnarl belongs outside of the C ranks.

to B-/C+: like Grimmsnarl, most of alolan ninetales' viability was killed by the light clay ban. However, its better off than our hairy friend due to its ability to set two screens in one with aurora veil, giving one extra turn to a sweeper to set up. It also can run boots now to come in more and set screens. I don't think its great or anything but B-/C+ feels like a good place for it.

to UR: Lool wtf does this do now that screens are dead, get unranked doodo bird. On a serious note, its niche derived from dual screens+ magic bounce+ teleport, but since screens are dead I don't think this is worth ranking

- these two aren't really "my own" nominations but Id like to say that I've changed by stance on my previous post with the ban actually happening. I think kommo-o should drop to A and gyarados remain A-. I said this in my last post but even though most clanger sets are danger, screens being heavily nerfed definitely makes kommo-o worse. It doesn't live as many hits without screens and doesn't find its most dangerous sets on common teams due to how hard they are to fit. Defensive sets are dogshit and offensive rocks get walled by aegislash or prim (both top 10 mons rn) meaning it wont make much progress. Gyarados just hasn't been experimented enough on screen-less teams to rise. However, gyara is still solid on webs and can even work on bulky offenses with spikes if it wants to be tried out, so I think it has merit in A- still, just not enough splashaility to rise to A imo.

I have been experimenting with non-clay screens teams and just wanted to touch on these points related to mons tied to Screens viability:

to C/UR : Agree with C, not UR though
Grimmsnarl is a bad setter now, but it's not the absolute worst and can still run a fully specially defensive set and has access to leftovers recovery. You won't be able to brainlessly spam screens anymore with it, but you can set a screen, maybe taunt, and dip to something else, it's just only really usable on teams with bulky sweepers like Gyarados that can still switch in and not be that bothered. It also has other offensive sets like BU/Sleep Talk that are very niche but not useless.

to B-/C+ : Disagree with C+, but B/B- is probably ok
Veil and Clay made everyone focus on Ninetales as a screen setter and little else, as it did that job so easily, but there's a lot left to explore with this mon. It can still set veil without clay and use Encore/Hypnosis to help give something a safe switch, and with boots it can set Veil more often now to help offset the loss of extra turns. But the offensive sets with Nasty Plot or Icy Rock have more to offer than you may think, even with Veil on top of those, and I hope people try these out in the next few weeks.

Remain A- : Agree
I said this in my last post, but Gyarados is still a ridiculous sweeper and doesn't need extended Screen-time to be disruptive. I actually thought it should even rise to A, but with the Clay ban that's a hard sell so just keeping it at A- seems to be good. I have seen Gyarados sweep many teams without even needing screens at all, but even with 3 turns of screens it's more than enough to get this bad fish going.

 

[kino]

​

Nominations I agree/Disagree with

to S-/A+, agree: If I'm being 100% honest, I don't think Scizor is that crazy right now. Multiple natural checks like rotom forms, thundurus, mew, keldeo, salamence and moltres are all common tier staples, keeping scizor down from succeeding. Offensive LO sets are still solid on webs but screens being gone hurts it a bit. To me, there are no true S ranks rn. Scizor has too many natural checks, prim can be taken advantage of due to its speed, aegislash is slow, glowbro is overhyped it struggles to get a boost at times and only really is threatening from there, and mew is just too passive sometimes. Each S rank has their flaws, this doesn't matter much but its something I felt like sharing. Anyway, prim feels more threatening and better than scizor rn so Id put it down to S- at least.

Nothing wrong with that take I just wanted to say a few things about Scizor. While I think bulky SD got considerably worse and doesn't really do much, HO sets are still threatening and 3atk roost are exceptionnaly good. Uturn-Roost-Bullet Punch-DwB/Knock brings a tremendous amount of utility, and depending on your last coverage option you really choose what to lose to, which makes it extremely splashable while building. Knock brings utility against Rotom forms, Moltres, Mence, Aegi (which you can even outspeed if you're really concerned about it, I saw someone calling it a "check" and I couldn't disagree more) while DwB deals with Buzz, Amoong and can get very solid damage on fighting that'd like to check (coba/keld/clanger).

Maybe I'm overhyping the 3atk Roost sets a bit but I consider them extremely scary while building, cause one check that dies/gets hindered too badly by one of the possible coverage moves won't be enough, thus you gotta stack checks, which isn't always easy. It's also extremely easy to support, and very few of its counters got actual ways to punsih it outside of Moltres. Between this, good offensive sets for HO and BP BP still working, I'm not too sure it should drop. Not too against S- either if we wanna set it apart from Mew but it feels better than most of the stuff in A+ to me.

--
I saw a couple of people reducing Zarude to its offensive presence and saying that because it's got so many checks, it really doesn't deserve A+ ; and I couldn't disagree more. Zarude brings to a team qualities that I would consider to be offensive, or even defensive, utility ; like key resistances to a ton of threats, hard check to most of aegi's sets, water and ground resists, status absorber, pivoting ; all this coupled with its still great offensive presence for a mon that brings all of these. Scarf set is still great and very consistent at speed controlling, but I feel like boots might currently be the way to go. It makes it much more reliable at eating status and countering stuff like Mew or Aegislash. Its speed tier is still amazing, outspeeding the base 100 + Thundy T + Nihilego is huge, esp since it can easily pressure/remove them after chip (doesn't even die from unboosted focus and got 6% to die to unboosted wave from nihi so it can even take those trades from full).
While it's true that Helmet Users can theoretically punish it, it really isn't too hard to remove Buzzwole's or Amoong's item (Zor, Conk, Tang can do that with extreme ease) and Buzz won't even run Helmet most of the time (even Amoong's starting to trade it for boots or sludge occasionally). Boots Zarude is much like Scizor, extremely hard to punish, because outside of missing Power Whip and the helmet eventuality (which isnt such an issue but mentionnable), its stabs are extremely spammable and it can even heal the passive damage on free turns stuff like Mew, Aegislash, Rotom Wash and Krookodile are going to give him (the list is much wider if you're willing to take a few rather safe predicts). Thus it's also pretty damn good at chipping its own checks, since clicking stab + uturn can be extremely free in a lot of matchups with slower defensive answers.
All of this don't even mention the Band set, which makes it extremely painful to check if it clicks the right move. Again, Zarude to A+ is a nomination I'd support, but I'm fine with A (despite how much I love and use the mon). My point is mostly I definitely don't think it should drop


I'd support Kitten Milk's nom, got to see th Guzz do some work, but when will you get to use viable teams km ;_;

 

[OniCornwalis]

to C+: While Grimmsnarl is definitely worse due to the Light Clay ban, it still has utility with moves like Taunt and Thunder Wave, and RestTalk and Bulk Up sets still have enough merit to where Grimmsnarl isn’t completely worthless.

 

[romanji]

DISCUSSION TIME
Agree

to A+: Specially defensive Aegislash is everything that Celesteela wants supposed to be, as it is basically the same speed, with more variety and isn't walled by Chansey due to its access to Close Combat. It serves as a great blanket check to special attackers such as Nihilego, Sylveon, and Mew. King's Shield can be used to punish Knock Off attempts from Scizor and Krookodile, forcing them to switch. Choice Specs and Mixed sets are also fantastic at choosing its own checks.

to A-: Buzzwole has found a good home on bulky offense teams for its great physical bulk and attack, being able to go against Pokemon such as Scizor, Zarude, and Mienshao. but I feel like it can't take on many of the Pokemon ranked from A to S, such as Primarina, Moltres, and Salamence effectively. It's horrible Special Defense leave it vulnerable to many coverage options such as Flamethrower on Kommo-o and Mew. But its merits as a tank definitely keep it at A-.

to A: Screens are broken so Gyarados is back in business. Power Whip is there to destroy any Water-type thinking it can force it out. (how does this even use power whip, does it use its body or the mustache?) Ice Fang is great coverage against Salamence. Though it does struggle against bulky Grass-types such as Amoonguss and Zarude, with the latter potentially revenge killing it with Choice Scarf Power Whip, but Screens support can help that out effectively.

to A: Nihilego is a top tier Stealth Rock setter due to having great speed, over top Pokemon such as Thundurus-T and Salamence. Knock Off is used to remove Heavy-Duty Boots, Leftovers, and Eviolite from Chansey. Meteor Beam sets have become rarer so any team must be careful of it as a late-game sweeper. Grass Knot is great for handling Seismitoad and Quagsire, and may even be A+.

to C+: When stall is bad, our squishy friend is also bad, but it still has some semblance of a niche with being able to stop some set-up sweepers, but it can't stop many common ones such as Gyarados and Nihilego.
Disagree

to A: Kommo-o has now found itself in a tough spot, due to the rise of many Fairy-types such as Primarina and Togekiss. But it should not be dropped from A+. Mixed Stealth Rock sets have become one of my favorites, especially due to having Poison Jab to 2HKO any Fairy-type coming in on a switch. Belly Drum sets are much more rare than in January, but they can still sweep unprepared teams.
IDK

: I haven't used so these, but I have played against it. Mantine is a solid Moltres counter but it is very prone to losing its Heavy-Duty Boots.

POST LIGHT CLAY VR
Not much has changed, but I wanted to make some changes since Light Clay's ban has effected some ranking + some personal rankings

KEEP A-: With the ban of Light Clay, it has become easier to revenge kill with Choice Scarf users such as Zarude and Jirachi.

to C+/lower: Hopefully we can have some Trick + Choice Band or Bulk Up + RestTalk sets with this but it isn't going to be very consistent.

to B-/lower: Alolan Ninetales still has more if an offensive niche as it, due to Nasty Plot, and still setting up it's own Aurora Veil.

to UR: Screens are gone so why use this?

to UR: Ditto here; it is already frail so removing any defensive help it got would be the nail in the coffin.

PERSONAL RANKINGS

to A: MURDER DOG IS BACK BABY! All out attacking sets are nearly impossible to wall with its coverage, and Swords Dance can absolutely sweep unprepared teams, due to its high Speed and Attack.

to A: The Electric-type immunity and higher Special Attack simply isn't worth it over the higher speed from the Incarnate form. Being revenge killed by Nihilego, Lycanroc-D and Keldeo is not favorable in this meta.

 

[iceblazer]

a- -> c+/c
Screens were Grimm’s niche, and now that playstyle is all but dead due to Light Clay’s ban, Grimmsnarl struggles to make a name for itself. It’s decent-ish 95 HP is undermined by its poor 65/75 defenses, which makes it much less desirable for a tank and Grimmsnarl can be surprisingly frail at times thanks to this. I genuinely do not know what Grimm‘s niche is at this point; I can see RestTalk and BU sets becoming a thing, but at that point, why not use something else like Hatt or Conk? As for offensive sets, they have already been proven to not be worth the effort.

b+ -> b-
Ninetales also got hit hard by the recent LC ban, but it still can carve a niche for itself with NP sets. You could still use it as a screen setter as A-Veil is essentially two screens in one, but don‘t take my word for it.

Other noms I agree with:
a- -> a
a- -> a-
a+ -> a
ur -> b-/b

 

[Morsel]

Hey.

Late night post since I can't sleep. This will cover my thoughts on the current discussion slate. Sorry if this is a bit disorganized or low quality. Think of it more as a dump of thoughts rather than an actual quality post.


Kommo-o A+ ->A: Disagree

I still think that Kommo-o is fantastic. Specs is very hard to switch into since it has nearly perfect coverage. Pair this with spikes and you will be able to cleave through most checks. Clangorous soul is still obnoxious to deal with even with the screens nerf since it can easily bypass its normal defensive checks with coverage. It still retains significant versatility in its other roles (defensive rocks, belly drum, mixed LO rocks) as well.


Aegislash A -> A+: Agree

It's no secret that slapping on Mew+Aegislash is a fairly safe way to start building a new team. That aside, it has a ton of sets that require very different counterplay (subtoxic, sd 3 attacks, mixed). It fits on a wide variety of teams due to its ability to act as both a steel type with significant defensive utility and a hard-to-check breaker of defensive cores.


Buzzwole A -> A-: Agree

I've used CB Buzzwole in the past (if you name it Mike Tyson you get more crits, trust me on this) and you either predict the Moltres/Mence/Aegislash coming in and get a kill (and more kills after with Close Combat) or guess wrong and lose a ton of momentum. Scarf I feel is outclassed by other forms of speed control (scarf krookodile/zarude, scizor bp, fast electric types like raikou/thundy forms) and band is a bit too inconsistent for it to be A rank worthy. I still think that boots+3 attacks and defensive rocky helmet are good which is why it's still an A- ranked Pokemon for me.


Gyarados A- -> A: Agree

I think Gyarados is better since a lot of people seem to be relying on full HP thundy forms, scarf krookodile/zarude, or Salamence to keep this thing in check. You have to play so carefully and optimally if your opponent has a Gyarados since one opening with your checks chipped usually means that you lose. Not to mention randomly losing since you got flinched by Waterfall.


Nihilego A- -> A: Agree

Nihlego is super annoying if you don't have a Chansey since it's hard to know what lure/coverage it's running until you hard switch your Rhyperior in and die to Grass Knot. Also, a lot of people rely on Scizor/Krookodile/Aegislash for their rock check which all get chunked by Nihilego pretty hard (And if Aegislash is sub-toxic without Flash Cannon it doesn't do much back). Being an offensive T-spikes setter is another good niche for it. The Power Herb+Meteor Beam set is also super deadly in certain matchups since rock+poison+electric/grass coverage is hard to switch into and it gets many chances to setup due to its bulk.


Togekiss B -> B+: Disagree

Togekiss can work if you are wanting to matchup fish, but it's vastly outclassed. Primarina is more effective as a setup sweeper with CM, sylveon/umbreon are much better clerics, and as a defogger it's hard to justify over something like Salamence or Moltres. I can see specs being decent in certain matchups or a cheesy t-wave set working, but I just don't see much value in this compared to other Pokemon in B+.


Quagsire B- -> C+: Disagree

Still plays a very valuable role within fat teams. This may be hard to notice with the ladder flooded with HO/cheese but Quagsire still fills an important role for certain teams and shouldn't drop. Nothing in the meta is really worse for it as well imo.


Mantine C+ -> B-/B: Disagree

I've literally never seen this used aside from Jeza.P in that one UUFPL game where it sat there and recovered for 1000 turns straight before eventually dying. No thanks.

 

[Mygrein]

1st vr post plz no hate ;_; only discussion slate bc da/dc

Kommo-o A+ -> A: disagree I never found kommo in screens to be anything special when compared to other more imposing mons. Kommo as a rocker is probably in the same spot as before but now you have to run pjab flames or accept that you cant hit either primarina or aegislash, which is why i think SD(sd, cc, scale, eq) is probably the best after seeing i think Adaam use it in ladder mb if not real, it shat on Aegislash and prima dies to eq after some chip which is not hard to obtain in mew meta.

Aegislash A -> A+: agree, i dont know who be using specs but shield tox flash ball claims soul if you play it right and i wouldnt be surprised if aegi becomes broken later on. SD is also good but that was mainly screens shenanigans, 4 attakcs speel tag is also good

Buzzwole A -> A-: disagree buzzwole dropping is kinda crazy, it stops so many mons that would straight shit on teams without it, 1v1s scizor which is better than ppl think when some people only rely on moltres to beat it and even bulky sets can break through teams with enough bulks up. A flying type weakness does not matter when Nihilego is such a good partner to buzzy wuzzy and lycanroc is apparently best mon.

Gyarados A- -> A: agree gyarados is most likely still underexplored and has many options like sub dd lefties, or even restalk mono water move but it is in a good spot regardless of if screens are banned or not. all it needs is 1 dd to beat the electrics and it can go crazy vs slow shit

Nihilego A- -> A: agree nihilego has amazing utility as a mon that has infinite pp vs stall and can crit psn JustFranco mons consistently, gets rocks up vs a lotta shit, is able to run knock off to cripple shit like ppl harding krook, can use protect instead to heal + scout choiced moves, can use tspikes to beat the ugly cheesers, and it saves scizor from the wrath of moltres/rotom heat. Also dealing with utility lego at +1 spa is not easy if you dont have anything for it so its not even a mon you can ignore and expect to not be punished.

Togekiss B -> B+: disagree, while stall has been used more uult has shown that lycanroc is too good, and the meta is just faster than what togekiss wants for it to achieve some epic flinching, kinda shits on fat shit tho just not the inner focus umbreon variants, i would rather use haze tenta to deal with prima than this

Quagsire B- -> C+: disagree, stall is not out of the limelight. It was in hibernation for a while and is still very good, also this is the mon that stops nihilego in stallkeklol

Mantine C+ -> B-/B: not sure, to me this is a stall only mon?? i didnt like milotic either after tini was banned so for that im out. disagree

any stunfisk fans in chat?

 

[romanji]

any stunfisk fans in chat?

I wanted to use that for UULT, but Static isn't worth it just use Helmet Buzzwole

 

[justdrew]

Neither of these are on the discussion slate but I think they are worth nominating.



C Tier - I don't know why Entei isn't in C tier. I've seen it in tournaments more times than most of the other Pokemon in that tier. You can run Heavy Duty Boots or Choice Band which are both amazing sets. It packs a punch with Sacred Fire and Flare Blitz, it has a good speed tier hitting 328 speed Jolly or 299 Adamant which outspeeds Kommo-o and the Rotom's, it has Stone Edge which claps the ever annoying Salamence, Toxic is awesome to run on Heavy Duty Boots sets as the 4th move to cripple common Fire resists like Rotom's, Kommo-o, and Rhyperior. and if even has a priority move in Extreme Speed. It is a good Pokemon and certainly deserving of a rank. If you want to see me using it I made a post in sample teams of a team that I almost qualified for UULT with.



B- Tier - Depressing news but stall and balance are good this generation. I am citing pokemonisfun as my source for Umbreon being a fantastic member of stall and balance. To quote him "Umbreon provides stall with a unique way of improving its matchup versus dangerous threats to stall such as Necrozma, Taunt Chandelure, and Gyarados." Umbreon is in my opinion the optimal Wish passer for Stall. Other than Amoonguss it is the best Knock Off resist and provides a lot of utility having Heal Bell so Chansey can use Stealth Rock. It is currently sitting in C but it should be bumped up to C+, B-, or even B as it is comfortably sits in my mind as an essential member of stall right now. It is also great for balances like the ones Pif uses to a high degree of success on ladder. I don't think Quagsire should sit two tiers above Umbreon. Umbreon provides an equal amount of utility in my opinion to stall.

A quick couple thoughts on the conversation in the thread:


Screens isn't crippled without Light Clay but it is certainly worse and as these are only used for screens knock them each down a tier.


Scizor should stay where it is. Swords Dance sets are still as good as ever. Less set versatility than the last generation but 3 attacks Roost, Choice Band, and Life Orb sets are all great. It is still a threat and there's really no removing it from the S family.

Okay thanks for reading!

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

A- -> B+

Having screens as a playstyle lost for it is a huge bummer, it loves having those extra turns to set up and now it does not have very many safe opportunities since many pokemon can ohko it or 2hko it without screens that otherwise would not such as nihilego, thundurus-t, rhyperior, and primarina. Bulky moltres still fits on bulky teams and serves as a great check to common pokemon such as aegislash, mew, slowbro-g, and zarude so it is fine in B+ to me

 

[467 11 11p]

TMM (Tsareena) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Queenly Majesty
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Triple Axel
- High Jump Kick​

I want to nominate tsareena to B-/B (s/o ojr)
UU been sleeping on this fantastic mon who was even the original mascot of the malamar milita. It's better off with an offensive set rather than a defensive set but don't think for one second it cant eat some hits like how it eats cheerios in the morning

calcs

0 SpA Primarina Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tsareena: 54-63 (18.9 - 22.1%) -- 14.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tsareena: 135-160 (47.3 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tsareena: 96-114 (33.6 - 40%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tsareena: 63-74 (22.1 - 25.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tsareena: 77-91 (27 - 31.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Seismitoad Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tsareena: 97-114 (34 - 40%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tsareena: 212-250 (74.3 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tsareena: 218-257 (76.4 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Diggersby Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tsareena: 140-165 (49.1 - 57.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even after seeing its amazing bulk for an offensive set all may not be sold. Tsareenas true power however lies in its amazing coverage this thing is a fucking nuke I cannot comprehend why it is not on the vr list. It has a 120 attack literally tied for 9th place with the most attack in uu and this thing with its coverage just clicks buttons like no man's business. It gets power whip for some powerful stab being able to almost one hit ko max hp max def primarina (s- tier mon), and don't get me started how it melts literally every other water type usable in this tier especially keldeo because this thing can eat a hit and kill it back (a+ tier mon). But wait can't they just switch out primarina into a grass resist into high ranked mons on the vr list like salamence, thundurus, tangrowth, amoongus, kommo-o or scizor???? Absolutely fucking not. You think you are cool and wanna go amoongus???
252 Atk Tsareena Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 234-276 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- approx. 2HKO (knock the helmet before hand noobs) tangrowth??? 252 Atk Tsareena Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Tangrowth: 204-246 (50.4 - 60.8%) -- approx. 2HKO, kommo-o???
252 Atk Tsareena Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Kommo-o: 168-198 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- approx. 11.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. And for the salamence masacare 252 Atk Tsareena Triple Axel (40 BP) (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Salamence: 420-504 (106.8 - 128.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Too add more power to this amazing pokemon it has knockoff which is prolly the best move in uu currently. You can knockoff moltres heattoms boots, globros item, celesteelas leftovers, amoongus helmet to spam ta, aegi if it wants to come in. Now on top of all that it also can be an sd scizor answer. 252 Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 134-158 (43 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO however you need chip and chip can come very easily like free samples at Costco you can easily get this chip from knockoff and rocks or just other pokemon uturning on it. Queenly Majesty does not allow them to click sdbpbpbpbp so get that chip and your good to go. Even then this pokemon has other moves like rapid spin, uturn, hell even taunt and synthesis might be able to work on some niche set and even acrobatics if you are facing cbu or something and want to catch him off guard or acupressure ;) (only rapid spin and uturn are viable). Now after reading all of that if you arent sold on tsareena you must be eating some scooby snacks. However It is with great sadness that I must say its great on paper but still has issues. Knocking moltres is nice but you still risk burn, whip and hjk can always miss, buzzwole (which is rising in popularity) tsa cant touch it, and many more weaknesses. It is far better than any pokemon in c- to c+ however which is why I want to nom it to B- or B this pokemon can also catch many of the top ranking pokemon off guard with its orgasmic coverage (literally destroys the sample team known as Umbreon + slowbro-galar stall. Thank you for reading I hope the wool has now been pulled over your eyes and will start to use Queen Tsareena.

 

[Crushy]

I'm here to make a nomination I should have made awhile ago, but I wanted to first see how it would be affected by meta trends. At this point in time, I truly do believe that its unique niche does have a place in the UU tier. The official nomination I am making is for:

UR -> B-/B

The Set

Articuno-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Freezing Glare
- Hurricane
- Shadow Ball
- U-turn

Before going in-depth, I want to clarify that I can only speak on behalf of its Choice Scarf set, but I have seen others use non-choiced sets for this mon for if they feel like giving their opinions on this mon in the future. Anyways, let's get right down to it.

What does it do?
Garticuno is a 95 base speed scarfer with a powerful STAB combination with the ability to punish common intimidate users in Krookodile and Salamence, while deterring defog all thanks to its Competitive ability. While it is a scarfer that is outsped by other common scarfers in Zarude and Mienshao, its still fast enough to outspeed everything in the tier making it a force to be reckoned with. Being a flying-type scarfer, this mon is able to bypass webs as well and serves as a solid revenge killer to some set up mons, particularly Kommo-o and Gyarados to an extent. Though its coverage is resorted mainly to Shadow Ball and U-turn, these can be enough to still be able to hit most of the steel-types that prevent it from freely spamming its stabs such as Aegislash, Jirachi, Scizor, and Celesteela to a lesser degree. This is also a special attacker with the ability to beat Chansey in some circumstances when considering if Hurricane is able to hit, confuse, and/or whether Chansey's eviolite is still in tact or not.

Why is it good?
With its scarf in mind, its stab combo tends to require actual resists to properly check so it often forces switches (if they're available), but the thing is that most of its actual checks lack instant recovery. Essentially, Garticuno's checks tend to rely a lot on Leftovers for recovery, which can be compensated for with Knock off support:
1.] the steel types rely on their lefties to stay healthy being Aegis/Steela/Jirachi (though this has wish too)
2.] the same applies to the rock and electric types that check it while these also fear switching into a Freezing Glare being the Thundys/Rotoms (though these have pain split)/Nihilego/Rhyperior/Lycanroc-dusk (not a real flying resist)

The point here is that Garticuno has the potential to beat all of its checks long-term with the exception of Chansey, though I will get to why this is a shaky check too. Any team without a proper flying resist will typically get broken by Garticuno. I believe that this mon is the closest option that exists for UU that replaces Bisharp and Alakazam all in one. The tier lacks potent psychic types as well when you consider the fact that Hatterene is typically the only psychic that runs psychic coverage; Jirachi typically drops psychic coverage, and Glowbro/Azelf/Mew sometimes run psychic coverage, but rarely do. When you look at the other options the tier has for a mon that punishes defog (so Defiant/Competitive mons) on offense based teams while not looking beyond PU for viability's sake, Thunderus/Obstagoon/Tornadus/Braviary/Passimian/Milotic/Atricuno-g, the only two that outspeed Garticuno is Thundy-I, but even those would be forced into running a physical set to benefit fully in being the Defiant role on these teams. The point I am making here is that no other mon in generation 8 can offer the unique traits that Garticuno has while still being effective within the UU tier. It fulfils its role well as a defog deterant/punisher in that having to switch into Garticuno can become increasingly more difficult as hazards go up and the opportunity to defog becomes more dire too. This is truly not a mon you want to give a Competitive boost to either in that it can 3hko Chansey with eviolite at +2 and flat out 2hko without an eviolite at +2, so even a mon like Chansey is often forced to heal against this thing and the opportunity to toxic or s-toss it is dire. It's also worth mentioning that this tier has plenty of grass and fighting types that Garticuno can easily come in against and just do what it does. This thing has decent natural bulk too so its able to sponge most neutral hits quite nicely and even some super effective hits comfortably too like an Accelerock or even a Nidoqueen Ice Beam.

What are its drawbacks?
For starters, the stabs it has can be easy to punish when considering that it being choiced can allow it to be revenged easily depending on the move its locked into. Having the scarf makes it susceptible to repeated rocks damage, so you really gotta time when you choose to bring it onto the field when hazards are up. Its worth mentioning that Hurricane spamming can be risky considering the accuracy; I can't tell you how many times I have lead off Garticuno against a lead Krook and just missed Hurricane turn 1 lmao. Garticuno also seems to be limited to offense oriented teams in that fitting this set on a Balance team would be a very difficult task. The last drawback is that it faces competition with some of the other flying-types in the tier that are also suited for offensive builds such as Salamence, the Moltres twins, the Thundy twins, and even Gyarados and Celesteela to an extent.

Where's the proof?

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Accelerock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Articuno-Galar: 237-281 (73.8 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoqueen Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Articuno-Galar: 252-299 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Nihilego Power Gem vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Articuno-Galar: 258-306 (80.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Articuno-Galar: 230-272 (71.6 - 84.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Articuno-Galar: 213-252 (66.3 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 223-264 (31.6 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 334-394 (47.4 - 55.9%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Articuno-Galar Hurricane vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 211-249 (67.8 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Articuno-Galar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 120 SpD Jirachi: 152-180 (37.6 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Articuno-Galar Freezing Glare vs. +1 0 HP / 4 SpD Kommo-o: 186-218 (63.9 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1344655030 Against stall vs Rinnegan (thanks for the replay dude) showing how destructive Garticuno can be
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1344050666 Against HO just highlighting that turn 1 interaction, look at how quickly Hurricane switch-ins became dire considering set up Steela doesn't really want to take damage before it sets up and Thundy-t would do nothing if it switched in considering the Scarf here
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1344941683 Against a Hazard stack mirror match showing how limited Garticuno switch ins can be against some offensive builds
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1345699658 Against a Chansey balance showing how switching into Garticuno with hazards up is serious business

Final thoughts
I believe I have mentioned the key aspects of Scarf Garticuno to where I believe it meets the criteria for a B- ranked mon. I promise its not as bad as it seems on paper and that its a legitimate threat within this meta and hope some give this mon a chance on their teams in the future.

VR Discuccsion Slate
A+ -> A Disagree
While I do believe that the omnipresence of Primarina and Glowbro to a degree hurts it, I still think its a fantastic mon in this tier. I'm likely one of the few that still uses its defensive set, but I do think this set is still effective at checking many of the physical threats and Body Press + Flamethrower is still a solid progress maker against non-fairy/Glowbro builds and against teams that run bulky grass + Chansey. I think that more should run Protect or Dragon Tail to get the most out of a defensive variant at the current point in time of this meta. Its offensive sets are still dangerous and can be difficult to scout for early on as to whether its a physical, mixed, or special offensive variant. I just don't think the meta trends have impacted Kommo-o enough to warrant a drop to A rank in that its still a versatile mon that can adapt to meta trends easier than most and its still one of the threats you should take seriously in the builder.

A -> A+ Agree
Not much to say here other than I think Aegis has solidified itself as one of the best mons in the tier being a solid glue mon that checks a lot in one slot and can fit easily on every team archetype. Sub/tox sets are excellent at the moment and its offensive sets are just as potent and not to be forgotten about when teambuilding. I've even seen more teams starting to properly account for Aegis in the builder to where status absorbers seem more common on teams, and even Nihilego has started running knock off more arguably because of this mon. Definitely worthy of the A+ rank.

A- -> A Agree
I firmly believe that Nihilego is in the best spot its ever been in within UU in this generation so far. This mon creates momentum like no other and can make solid progress against most teams considering that its stabs in combination with its coverage options in grass knot, twave, knock off, etc. doesn't leave much to switch into this thing safely repeatedly. This mon provides so much for any team all in one slot including some crucial resistances in flying/fire/fairy/bug with an amazing speed tier for its typing as well, while acting as a toxic absorber as well, all of these elements are crucial for this current meta. Nihi is in a good spot in this tier right now and I can only see it getting better honestly.

Other than all of this, have a great day everyone!

 

[Band]

A+ -> S

Calm Mind with Scald + Sludge Bomb is an extremely dangerous combo, since you punish literally every single Steel-type: Celesteela and Aegi have their Lefties negated and Scizor and Jirachi become quite weakened, especially Jirachi, and Scizor needs to boost like twice. Sludge Bomb punishes so much of the meta, and Regenerator makes Glowbro so self sufficient that even Calm Mind sets that aren't made to switch in multiple times can easily come in and start spreading status or make your opponent shit their pants as you Calm Mind and become unkillable. Shuca/Colbur make Glowbro extremely consistent at removing its checks once set up, destroying Ground and Steel-types with Scald and everything else with Sludge Bomb.

Assault Vest is an absolutely incredible glue, checking Salamence, Amoonguss, Primarina, Thundurus, Keldeo, Washer and Oven, Nihilego, and many more. You can choose a whole bunch of moves and tailor Glowbro to your team's needs: Future Sight to support breakers like Mienshao and Buzzwole, Ice Beam to destroy Salamence, Flamethrower to melt Scizor, Psyshock for Nihilego and Nidoqueen, Psychic for Kommo-o and Amoonguss, Sludge Bomb for Tangrowth, Shell Side Arm for SubCM Primarina, Scald to punish Ground- and Steel-types, and you can even try Grass Knot to catch Seismitoad, Gastrodon, Quagsire and Rhyperior off guard. Nasty Plot is less consistent, but if you manage to get lucky with the right Quick Draw turns, Glowbro is just so incredibly infuriating to face with Psyshock/Sludge Bomb/Flamethrower coverage.

A- -> A

Just want to do an official nom for this one. Switching into CC is nearly impossible unless your name is Buzzwole/Amoonguss/Tangrowth, with Amoong just dying to Psyfangs, and Accelerock is incredible priority given how good Thundurus is now, and you also get to pick off Salamence/Moltres/Gyarados.

A- -> A+

I originally ranked this in A, but now I think Nihilego is A+ material. Choice Scarf Zarude/Mienshao are rarer, with boots and LO being more popular afaik and Azumarill and Crawdaunt seeing very low usage. Scizor is a big problem for it for sure, but can never risk switching into Power Gem, and Mbeam OHKOes it. At +1 Speed and Special Attack, Nihilego becomes incredibly difficult to check outside from what I mentioned before and after you manage to weaken Celesteela/Aegi/Jirachi, it just sweeps everything. Extremely potent wincon and needs support only for Steel-types, which isn't hard with flame mew/glowbro being amazing. Utility knocks a whole bunch of stuff like Chansey and Celesteela, shits on every defogger bar washer, and can even run Protect to rack lefties + scout choice-locked mons (thanks Lilburr for finding this one).

A -> A+

Seriously thought this was A+ already lol. Krookodile is extremely versatile and can run a whole bunch of items to tailor itself to the team's needs: Leftovers, Life Orb, Rindo/Chople/Passho Berry, Choice Scarf, and Choice Band are some options, but I'm sure ppl can come up with even more sets for this thing. Having a Dark-type is insanely important now cuz Mew is everywhere too. Krookodile is an incredible way to compress roles on your team between Intimidate + Rocks + 2 immunities, one of those blocking Volt Switch and the other blocking Future Sight. Seriously cannot understate how much progress this thing makes between EQ + Knock + Rocks.

A+ -> A/A-

Don't see any reason to use this one now, especially with the screens nerf, seems like it only fits on webs ho. Even if the electric immunity is nice, regular Thundy brings a lot more to the table with Knock + U-turn + Speed.

 

[hs]

For some reason, the draft of my post wasn't saved, so instead I'm just going to give my two cents on Mantine because people have already addressed enough on other mons and I don't want to harp on about it.

to B/B+: Agree
The mon is not bad at all, it checks Primarina, Nido, Keld, Molt, Kommo-o, Buzzwole, offers Ground immunity, Haze provides a good countermeasure against HO and Scizor in general too, and if needed Defog (it should always stop non-Edge Scarf Krook variants from getting rocks up), there is irrefutable proof that it's a very capable mon. Here are some replays I got from Open that shows it:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8uu-560596 - As you can see, Mantine did the most in this game, walling Rachi after it had already used Meteor Beam and gatekeeping Keldeo from spamming STABs 5 times and winning, and though he only managed to pull it back because of an Air Slash miss, he only got in that position because of a flinch in the turn before.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8uu-558758 - Again, Mantine carried this game against Nido, Keld, Aegi, and Reuni, and even with the absurd amount of luck Osh had after getting 2 SpDef drops on it with Aegi and Reuni coupled with like 4 crits later, it still managed to outdamage and tox everything and win pretty comfortably.
Mantine has been getting more usage due to providing an unique and very important role compression, and a rise is deserved very much. There are probably some other series that I just cba to look up for because they're private and I don't wanna bother asking people to share.

Would like to say that I agree with Adaam's noms, especially that Noivern should be dropping to B, it is nowhere near as good as it once was, its only niche is being fast, but doesn't have the defensive/offensive stats to back it up, making its mu vs Scizor, Keldeo, Zarude, and etc much worse. Overall, there's no reason to run Noiv over Mence, which is better in almost every aspect.
Prima is something I wanted to talk about too because it is not deserving of being as high as it is right now, it's not as good of a mon as an S- rank is supposed to be, as a breaker the Specs set is largely more vulnerable to all mons it's meant to switch into, like Keldeo, Buzzwole, Kommo-o, not to say that there are enough pivots for it, and you need to get a certain amount of plays correctly to make progress with it, which you're very unlikely to do, because it has fewer opportunities to break because of the mediocre phys bulk, and as mentioned the speed sets it back a lot in a metagame as offensive as this, as it's always going to get chunked hard before opening holes. The defensive set is better and much more splashable, but still shouldn't be enough to warrant the same category as behemoths like Mew and Scizor, that perform many useful roles because of their splashability and warp the metagame around themselves.

Also, rank Entei please, it's been a long time.

 

[KM]

i feel like doing a bit of a nomination dump so here we go! Some of these are on the slate, some aren't.

Scizor S -> S-


Scizor is obviously still great -- but I think there's a number of metagame trends that are actively working against it, and this should be reflected in the VR. When running Scizor, it really feels like you have to choose what you want to be walled by in a way that it didn't before. SD Roost sets are generally best off going Knock / BP, but then you literally have a Scizor that loses to Umbreon. Offensive LO sets want to run double priority, but also want to run DWB for buzzwole, but also need Knock for Aegi.... etc etc. Scizor just doesn't feel like the oppressive threat it's been in a pre-April metagame -- a lot of teams are just running multiple checks without any intention at all.

Kommo-o A+ -> A

Agree with most things everyone else has said! Screens nerf hurt the boosting sets, defensive sucks, Eject Pack is still good but not A+ good, etc. Still an incredibly solid Pokemon with a lot of surprise upside, but a lot of games it just doesn't do much.

Slowbro Galar A+ -> S-

I've been running a lot of CM GBro stall recently and it's ridiculous how much utility it provides while being a solid wincon. A lot of discussion about gbro seems to be centered around how you can stop it -- but even if it's not able to set up and sweep it usually is able to break down teams with status and chip damage with virtually 0 risk.

Thundurus-T A+ -> A

This one's not that deep -- got a lot worse with screens nerf, is actively worse than the other Thundurus right now so it should be at a lower rank.

Aegislash A -> A+

Now that people stopped running bad Aegislash sets, it's pretty clear how excellent it is as glue, and that's being reflected in the insane amount of usage on balance / BO teams. It also has an incredibly strong matchup into metagame trends like Lycanroc and Nihilego and is just always useful. A lot of my teambuilding process recently has started with trying to theorycraft how to take advantage of SBall Toxic KS ?? sets -- while there's certainly some creative answers, most of them are otherwise subpar or depend on that 4th move being flash cannon and not Close Combat (which is a better set than people give it credit for). Aegislash feels super centralizing right now, and it should definitely be ranked higher.

Buzzwole A-> A+

This one might be a little more controversial, but I find myself reaching for Buzzwole on nearly every team I make recently. Defensive is incredible, but what I've noticed more recently is that you can run hybrid sets between fully defensive and LO 3 attacks that are excellent in their own right. I've had a lot of success with HDB 3 attacks (CC ice punch eq) roost with attack investment, but you could also easily run a more defensive HDB set, an expert belt set, rocky helmet with CC EQ PJab, etc. More generally, there's such a huge lack of fire, psychic, and flying type physical attackers in the tier right now that Buzzwole just ends up walling most physical threats.

Zygarde-10% B- -> B

Zygarde is having a moment right now as she should -- there's hella otherwise excellent teams right now that have 1 or 0 thousand arrows switchins. I also had moderate success running non-band sets (the two i tried were thousand waves trapper booster and ToxTect DD Thousand Arrows) -- they certainly weren't as consistent or good as CB but there's definitely potential for them in the tier. B- is too low to reflect how big of a threat it is right now.

UR-> C

I know I come on here all the time hyping unviable bullshit so if y'all ignore this I have no qualms but Dragalge is a super solid option right now. I've been running Choice Specs with Sleep Talk and there's truly no switchins in the entire tier (bar Klefki). It can switch in on Amoonguss or be paired with a slow pivoter like TP Mew or U-turn Scizor and claim every time it comes in -- Draco Meteor 2HKOs every non-fairy besides Celesteela and Aegislash (and it comes pretty close for them), and Sludge Wave covers Fairy-types and does massive damage to everything else. You can run Shadow Ball in the third slot to do more to Aegislash and Jirachi, or just run three moves with sleep talk and improve your rolls -- but either way, it's a great wallbreaker. It also has enough natural bulk to trade even in matchups where it doesn't have something it can come in on. spatula was brave enough to run a dragalge team faded and I made during UUFPL -- and while it didn't win, it notably took 39 from a Salamence Hurricane and killed something! Definitely requires team support, but it's a super cool option right now that deserves more exploration.

 

[sugarybomber]

Shiftry UR -> C

I know you might think shiftry is too slow and frail and is also quad weak to u turn. Those may be true but there is one team style where it is a threat full sun teams. Venasuar maybe the main sun sweeper but it’s the only good chlorophyll as tangrowth is too slow and even the next best tier wise is vileplume which is also too slow. Enter shiftry the second best sun sweeper. While venasuar does outclass shiftry the two can be paired up for some chlorophyll havoc. Shiftry plays as a physical venasuar due to solar blade and knock off. But it also has heat wave to lure and destroy scizor tangrowth and other physical walls. However shiftry is super niche and should be used on full sun teams. But with the right team and support it can be very threatening.

 

[HydreigonTheChild]

A -> A+

It has been seeing a lot more usage with flash cannon sets, previously counters like obstagoon and zarude were free entry, now flash cannon does 40 to them and outheals jungle healing and forces obstagoon to use rest more often. Aegislash also helps weaken physical attackers such as scizor, lycanroc-d, and mienshao so a teammate can take advantage of them being at -1 and plays mindgames with pokemon such as zarude, and lycanroc-d if its worth to go for stone edge/jungle healing to avoid being punished by king shield or risk that they go for the offensive play. It also is very hard to wear down since its immune to toxic, resistant to stealth rocks, and has a total of 9 resists and 3 immunities which helps it in switching into pokemon.

A+ -> A
A -> A+

with mew, scizor, zarude, and aegislash being very top threats amoonguss is a better pokemon than tangrowth as it is able to pressure scizor better, is not reliant on AV and can spore/sludge bomb mew without being returned a crippling poison. It can check zarude via rocky helmet and stab sludge bomb and does not get toxic'ed unlike tangrowth and foul play does not care about attack drops from king shield. Scizor is another pokemon that amoonguss is better against than tang as it does not have a bug weakness and is able to hit a +2 scizor with foul play or spore since they are running heavy duty boots more and more often while tangrowth can knock it at most. This is why i feel these 2 should swap placements.

 

[Hilomilo]

Locking this thread while the VR team works on this time's slate for the update. Stay tuned!

 

[Hilomilo]

Here's the first part of our update! The VR team tried polishing the ranks due to some inflated subranks here and there, so this one is a bit bigger than usual and as such will be formatted a bit differently with a full write-up on changes (Pokemon that changed ranks will have their names capitalized and bolded for visibility in the hide box below). Here's what we've got:
Rises
A -> S-
A- -> A
A- -> A
A- -> A
B+ -> A-
B+ -> A-
C -> B-
UR -> B-
UR -> C

Drops
S -> S-
A+ -> A-
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B+
A- -> B
A- -> B
A- -> C
B+ -> B
B+ -> C
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> B-
B -> C+
B -> C+
B- -> C+
B- -> C+
C+ -> C
C+ -> UR
:
Ribombee: C -> UR

Reasonings

S RANK
SCIZOR is dropping to S- for a few reasons. The first is to reflect that Mew is simply above anything else in the metagame and should be represented as the best Pokemon by being the only one in S rank, its versatility and consistency between supportive and offensive sets alike giving it a strong hold. In addition to this, however, Scizor is just easier to prepare for than once before. Moltres is a metagame staple, both Rotom formes are pretty solid right now, and there are plenty popular Pokemon capable of forcing trades with Scizor or outright powering through it, including Thundurus/Keldeo/Salamence/Buzzwole. It still possesses a strong offensive hold and overall utility, but being in the highest rank possible misrepresents its current prowess, especially alongside something as currently dominant as Mew.


S- RANK
PRIMARINA is still one of the metagame’s amazing offensive presences, but is seeing a general adjustment to its presence take place following the initial surge it saw last month. Assault Vest Glowbro has found its place in the meta and is a real nuisance for Primarina, Chansey is seeing more usage again, and the popular Tangrowth and Amoonguss sets burden it pretty significantly. Keldeo still being excellent also gives it some opportunity cost, especially with the specific benefits Keldeo can offer, like outspeeding Mew among many other threats and resisting Bullet Punch. As it currently stands, A+ is a good spot for both our favorite Water-type breakers to reside.

A+ RANK
THUNDURUS-T is the only Pokemon to move from A+ for the time being. It dropped two subranks due to its flaws in comparison to regular Thundurus having really been exacerbated by meta developments since its initial rise. Screens builds are no longer accessible and were one of the best ways of supporting Thundy-T, which further brings the issue of its Speed tier into focus given how strong all of Zarude, Keldeo, and Nihilego are right now. It’s a potent breaker but suffers more opportunity cost now than ever before.

A RANK
AEGISLASH is jumping from A to S- thanks to how incredible its King’s Shield + Toxic set is right now. It forces excellent progress with Shadow Ball and Toxic, while its typing and King’s Shield also offer amazing utility as a burden to Pokemon like Nihilego and Mew. It’s a layered threat that accomplishes many things in any given match, though choiced and SD sets are still potent and further boost Aegislash’s current hold over the tier. While Mew is still the most dominant Pokemon around, Aegislash has wonderfully come into its own and S- reflects its importance and applicability quite nicely.

A- RANK
LYCANROC-D sees a rise from A- on account of its immense threat level in the current meta. Possessing one of the best speed tiers, priority for Thundurus, and typing/coverage that threaten staples like Moltres and Zarude are massive for it. However, trends such as Tangrowth most often investing in SpD and Terrakion counterplay being long-gone also favor it. NIHILEGO has become an amazing tool in the builder, with its typing being extremely helpful for foes like Moltres/Thundurus/Rotom-H/etc and its STABs and coverage being quite potent. Stealth Rock and Knock Off also are excellent for the progress they make, while its Meteor Beam sets still have a strong place, shredding unprepared teams. ROTOM-W has been steadily rising for some time now and looks better in the same ranking as its Fire-type counterpart because of the unique perks both can offer. It has great matchups against most current hazard setters, has good options for forcing progress against Grass-types between Will-o-Wisp and pivoting, and can utilize its typing to check or pressure common Pokemon like Moltres, Scizor, and Primarina.

As for drops from A-, CHANDELURE continues its downgrades through the ranks as Aegislash remains a presence that it simply struggles immensely to compete with. It also is more abusable and prediction-reliant than before given how strong Primarina, Moltres, Keldeo, etc. all currently are. DIGGERSBY is a bit of a non-entity lately due to its lack of defensive utility making it incredibly hard to support. It requires players to build around it and overall has lost the relevance/threat level needed to maintain a spot in A-. GALARIAN MOLTRES suffers from screens support no longer being nearly as accessible, making its flagship double dance sets more of a chore to fit than ever before, though RestTalk is quite nice in an Aegislash-ruled meta. NIDOQUEEN has lost its offensive hold as a strong check in Mew has grown into *the* metagame staple and as other rockers have been explored and given it increased competition. NOIVERN drops two subranks to reflect its highly decreased urgency. It was a strong pick when Keldeo briefly took the meta by storm, though once Keldeo became more adjusted to, Noivern’s main perk lost a bit of its value and the competition it suffered from Salamence began to worsen yet again. RAIKOU is also dropping two subranks due to the opportunity cost it suffers with both thundies and Rotoms being solid picks. SubCM has also become relatively adjusted to, relegating Raikou to its pivoting set in most cases. GRIMMSNARL may still have some niche as a fringe screens setter, but only makes sense to take a nosedive drop to C following the Light Clay ban.

B+ RANK
JIRACHI sees a rise from B+ to A- thanks to the new life it’s found with its more offensive sets. It’s one of the best scarfers available thanks to the fantastic utility it provides with typing/pivoting/coverage/Healing Wish, while offensive rocks and SubToxic have also proven to be consistent sets that bolster its current value. MIENSHAO is an excellent offensive presence with Life Orb thanks to its excellent coverage for making progress and Regenerator making it surprisingly durable. Choice Scarf sets have also emerged as one of the stronger current options for speed control, giving Mienshao a very realized niche at this stage. REUNICLUS drops a subrank due to the lack of breathing room Galarian Slowbro currently gives it competition-wise. As AV Glowbro has become a more mainstream set, Reuniclus’s ability to carve worthy niches over it have lessened considering its previous claim was its own AV set. ALOLAN NINETALES has dramatically dropped to reflect its decreased viability following the Light Clay ban, though C seems fair for now due to its potential as a fringe screens setter.


B RANK
BARRASKEWDA is among the many drops from B in this update, often having a hard time finding a place on most teams. Its defensive utility is non-existent and it can also run into both 4mss and damage output issues as a pivot, which are all things that current structures can quite easily take advantage of. CRAWDAUNT also drops a subrank, struggling a ton recently on account of both its frailty and pitiful Speed in a meta full of strong offensive checks. INCINEROAR is no longer nearly as handy a pick, only soft checking Mew/Scizor/Aegislash among the current top tiers and being overwhelmed quite easily by most other common Pokemon. MILOTIC has fallen off following the initial hype it received, generally suffering pretty high opportunity cost given Primarina’s strong place in the tier and generally more valuable utility. POLTEAGEIST is a lot harder to support without screens being as realistic an option, but also dislikes Zarude’s prominence and the increased exploration of Umbreon. TORKOAL and VENUSAUR are dropping to reflect the lacking relevance of sun in the current metagame, as it simply has not seen serious usage or presented too large a threat to most current structures, especially considering the capacity Pokemon like Nihilego/Kommo-o/Mew have to 1v1 Venusaur. VOLCANION suffers massive opportunity cost as a breaker with Keldeo and Primarina, who both offer more versatility and excellent secondary typings. Its defensive utility is also very hard to tap into given how prone to chip damage it is. SYLVEON drops two subranks to reflect having lost its place in the metagame for the most part as Primarina’s bulky sets have kept their importance in the metagame and supplied it with massive competition. TAPU BULU is a gigantic chore to support and simply has too many checks to keep up with (Moltres/Amoonguss/Tangrowth/Salamence/Buzzwole to name a few), which justifies dropping it two subranks to better reflect how heavily you need to build around it for success.

B- RANK
ENTEI finds a new home in B- from having previously been unranked. It’s a very potent breaker thanks to progress it can convincingly force with Sacred Fire’s burn chance, dissuading conventional switch-ins like Rhyperior. Solid coverage and priority access serve to bolster the utility it provides. KLEFKI is dropping a subrank due to the steep competition it faces as a spiker from Mew, giving it fairly intense opportunity cost. It also struggles to consistently keep up pressure against currently common hazard removal options, usually over-relying on Prankster status moves. SUICUNE continues its trend down the rankings as a win condition that can too often give free turns to many tier staples because of its passive nature, which requires intense support to make it work. Zarude being a tier staple also does it absolutely no favors as of late.

C+ RANK
DIANCIE is dropping a subrank for similar reasons as last update. It takes up the currently very valuable Fairy-type slot, struggles immensely from 4mss which leads to inviting in many common threats, and fails to check a particularly large amount of common threats save for Pokemon like Salamence and Moltres. KINGDRA struggles a ton to break the tier’s Regenerator Grass-types, dislikes Primarina’s popularity, and can be abused in many ways between wearing itself down with Life Orb, locking into an attack with Choice Specs, or dropping its SpA with Draco Meteor. It drops below Politoed to reflect that it isn’t quite the rain staple it’s chalked up to be, especially given how usable breakers like Keldeo are on the archetype. SHUCKLE and SLURPUFF are both very niche and predictable as Webs setters, and are dropping to reflect both this and their rather one-note places in the tier.

Many pokemon have additionally been unranked from C+ instead of dropping to C. ARAQUANID has no tangible niche over other Webs setters or Water-type breakers that warrants consistent usage, especially given its fairly abusable typing. ROSERADE has an abundance of strong checks and relies way too much on its status moves to make progress at this rate. SCOLIPEDE can no longer be convincingly supported with screens and just pales in comparison overall to other options for HO sweepers with more offensive prowess and/or utility. Barring Zarude, GALARIAN WEEZING loses to nearly everything you’d expect a Pokemon with its typing to check, and in general is extremely abusable and easy to overwhelm with most top tier Pokemon.

C RANK
UMBREON offers great utility to bulkier builds right now, justifying a two-subrank rise. Checking Aegislash/bulky SD Scizor/Chandelure/Necrozma in addition to avoiding flinches from Jirachi and Gyarados gives it a lot of unique and relevant value. DRAGALGE is finding a new spot in C from previously being unlisted, its typing being useful for checking presences like Keldeo/the Rotoms/Amoonguss. Choice Specs supplies it with devastating immediate power, while bulkier sets that utilize Toxic Spikes also have some current claim. Everything other change in C rank concerns a Pokemon being unranked. CELEBI faces immense competition from Mew and can’t consistently combat popular Pokemon like Zarude/Scizor/Aegislash. CHARIZARD and DARMANITAN both require way too much support on an already niche play-style in sun due to their horrible longevity, making other Fire-type breakers better options. CLOYSTER is convincingly checked by many mainstream Pokemon and is more hard-pressed than to set up than ever with screens now out of the equation. LINOONE is in a similar boat, previously only seeing use on screens which are obviously way worse now. Spikes HOs are just bad right now given Mew’s current value and boots being everywhere, giving FROSLASS no niche. INDEEDEE once held a decent niche as a scarfer capable of revenge killing Kommo-o/Scizor/Bisharp, but the former two are no longer as threatening while the latter isn’t in the tier, and the female variant’s access to Healing Wish makes it a better source of terrain support. MIMIKYU, while unique, still fails to define enough niches it has over Aegislash that are worthwhile. OMASTAR is never used and only hypothetically works on a fairly fringe play-style in rain. STAKATAKA is outperformed as both a cleaner and defensive hazard setter by an abundance of Pokemon, largely due to its awkward typing. RIBOMBEE no longer possesses a niche as a webs setter with other options offering way more current utility. XATU was a fringe pick for a screens setter, but now provides virtually no relevant utility with Light Clay banned.

Hope y'all enjoyed! Discussion points will be covered in the next post, which should be coming later today most likely. Cheers~

 

[Hilomilo]

Here are our discussion points~

Tangrowth A+ -> A: While still a consistent check to Pokemon like Lycanroc-D and Thundurus, Tangrowth is yet again beginning to face more notable competition from Amoonguss, who is appreciating the lowered amount of Safety Goggles and can more convincingly handle foes like Scizor and Toxic Aegislash. Based on this last voting slate, the VR team seemed conflicted about where to place Tangrowth, warranting a discussion amongst the community.

Nihilego A -> A+: Nihilego is a simply fantastic presence in the tier right now that a good amount of the VR team thought could stand to further rise. It offers excellent support through its strong matchups against Moltres/special Salamence/Thundurus and customizable movepool, making its utility set one of the tier's most splashable and consistent rocks setters. It currently brings an excellent blend of offensive prowess and defensive utility lately, though its vulnerability to strong Pokemon like Aegislash and Scizor, as well as the rising Jirachi, is also important to note.

Rotom-H A -> A-: Rotom-H has struggled a bit to counteract the steady rises of Pokemon like Nihilego and Rhyperior, as well as the opportunity cost it increasingly suffers as its Water-type counterpart grows stronger in the current metagame. Its typing may also not be particularly useful enough for that of an A-ranked threat, as despite checking Scizor and Moltres, it can still open weaknesses to many excellent offensive presences right now.

Celesteela A- -> B+: Celesteela continues to struggle to apply its defensive tools, its typing failing to find particular value right now as other Steel-types like Aegislash and Jirachi solidify the current worth of the specific utility they offer. Its awkwardness is further compounded by the limited splashability of its Autotomize set with Light Clay out of the picture. However, its ability to pivot in on Pokemon like Nihilego and Toxic Aegislash can prove to be fairly valuable right now.

Gyarados A- -> B+: Gyarados was an extremely accessible offensive threat when screens were readily available to it. However, the Light Clay ban has made it a fair bit harder to adequately support. Its nature as a one-time sweeper prevents it from tapping into the perks of its typing as much as it'd like to, often requiring teams to specifically build around it in order to optimize its sweeping potential. It's still quite potent, though having grown far more strenuous to harness to its fun potential has brought a drop into question.

Chansey B+ -> A-: Even without stall being a particularly strong archetype, Chansey has managed to fit onto balances fairly well in recent weeks and stand out as an extremely durable check to many important Pokemon in the metagame, including Primarina, special Salamence, and Nihilego. Although it is still a bit constricted by its passive nature, Chansey brings a lot of very immediate and valuable defensive worth that could be rewarded with a rise back into the A ranks.

Hatterene B+ -> A-: There have been talks of Hatterene rising for a bit now, warranting a more focused discussion on it among the community. The perks of Magic Bounce are fairly notable with Spikes Mew being a huge factor of the metagame, giving Hatterene a fair amount of opportunity to make progress. It still does have to carefully work around Steel-types, however, given the current prowess of Aegislash and Jirachi's steady rise.

Tentacruel B -> B+: Although it fell off for a period of time, Tentacruel has been slowly trending upwards again as both Primarina and Keldeo have remained excellent breakers. It also offers a decent pivot into currently strong utility picks in Nihilego and Moltres and always has its ways of making progress between the headache its STAB moves can induce and its excellent support movepool. It can still tend to overwhelm itself due to its lack of recovery, however, which can open up easy opportunities for it to be exploited or powered through in the late-game.

Thanks for reading and sorry for the wait! This thread should be unlocked now, so happy posting!

 

[Monky25]

gonna give my thoughts on the discussion points as well as a nomination of my own, hope you all enjoy :)

to A-, agree (use this sprite in the list its much cooler): I'm surprised chansey didn't make the cut this last update. Chansey balances have been everywhere for me, it pairs well with other defensive Pokemon like Moltres, Spdef aegi, and buzzwole to form a great defensive core being able to handle nearly every Pokemon in the meta (except demon lord azelf). It can compress rocks, cripple threats with status, and be able to keep up momentum with teleport. A key part of balances in the current meta, I think a rise is well deserved.

to B+, agree: Ok maybe tenta deserves a bit more credit than its given. I shat on it a lot in the past but I'm ready to admit its actually solid. Once its in tenta is pretty hard to switch into between knock scald and sludge. Its pretty helpful against top dogs like aegi, molt, and prim with its nice spdef and good speed tier. Def worth a rise in my book.

to B+, agree: Gyara's time at the top has come to an end. Now don't get me wrong, gyarados is still a solid Pokemon. I've seen DD BO teams with Spikes support for it and I've personally used gyarados webs to a solid effectiveness. However, it certainly requires a lot more support to work, with electric types as well as bulky Pokemon like aegislash needing to be removed before going ham. Its still a great sweeper that can easily setup on top threats like keldeo and scizor (who will be gone soon) but it doesn't have the consistency as an A- pokemon. B+ is still good though!

to B+, agree: Like gyarados, steela fits a lot better in B+. Autotomize sets are seldom used now compared to other sweepers like necrozma who have much better bulk, and defensive sets still get taken advantage of by electrics and moltres. Steela still has its benefits, being able to own pretty much all aegislash variants, but B+ is more indicative of it rn. (all the B+ pokes are good don't sleep!)

to A-, disagree: Ik we're not supposed to "speculate" and whatnot but since Mew is likely to rise up in less than 2 weeks Hatterene's main advantage over the top fairy primarina is gone. If mew stayed I would have no problem rising hatt, but since its unlikely to remain UU I'd keep it at B+. This is just so I don't do a nomination supporting a rise only to refute it in a future post.

to A-, agree: The above post says it all, heattom has it rough rn. It doesn't check too many of the top threats, only really dealing with aegi, scizor, and moltres. It loses to the best rockers in nihilego and rhyperior unlike the washer, who has begun to outshine it a lot more on VoltTurn teams and as a defogger. Washtom is significantly better than heattom rn so Rotom-H can drop down to A-.

- unsure. Both of these I'm not too sure on and will likely revisit in the future. Nihi is the best rocker in the tier and can deal with top dogs like the thundurus forms and mence, but is also vulnerable to other Pokemon like slowbro galar, aegislash, duskroc, and zarude, all great threats. While it can hinder the former two with knock off, I cant help but notice that if Nihi isn't running the right move at the right time (gknot for rhyp, knock for chansey) it can struggle at times. I lean toward keeping it A but we'll see as the tier changes. Tang I also don't really think should drop rn, it offers excellent glue for thundurus, prim, and keldeo while still matching up well against aegi and glowbro thanks to knock off. I don't think its so much better than amoonguss but I do think its enough to stay in A+ with amoonguss in A.

Now, I've got one last nomination to share. This is 100% serious btw, this is a genuine threat in the tier rn.

to B+: I shit you not, azelf is worthy of being at the B+ rank right now. Between both the nasty plot and pivot set azelf has begun a solid threat in the tier. Its nasty plot set is a fearsome wallbreaker, being basically the fastest threat in the tier since who the fuck uses any of the others. At +2 it shreds defensive teams apart, only truly fearing umbreon as the sole method of beating it, which only really fits on stall. It can surprisingly eat a priority attack from scizor and KO back, not to mention it actually sets up on a lot of things it forces out like keldeo. The pivot set is more common in tours, where it can act as an annoying fast pivot, knocking off items like leftovers on aegi and eviolite on chansey and pivoting out while still dispatching threats like nihilego and keldeo for the team. I get azelf has been a joke in this thread, and I wasn't crazy about it myself, but I'm willing to say that azelf is a good Pokemon in the tier and should rise to B+ to reflect that.

 

[romanji]

200th post

to A: IDK: Like Amoonguss, it appreciates the fact that there are less Pokemon running Safety Goggles, making physically defensive sets much better as well. Unfortunately, the Toxic weakness hinders its ability to check the Pokemon it’s supposed to like Primarina and Keldeo.

to A+: AGREE: Nihilego is the best Stealth Rock setter right now. Checking many top Pokemon such as Thundurus, Salamence, and Primarina.

to A-: AGREE: Nihilego’s rise has made Defog on Rotom-H really bad, with Nihilego also being immune to Toxic. It still has the defensive utility to check Scizor, but Rotom-W has been much better due to not relying on Heavy-Duty Boots and being able to check Gyarados and Rhyperior much better.

to B+: AGREE: Autotomize sets are just better on Pokemon like Aegislash and Necrozma, which offer better offensive movepools. Aegislash can even run a much better specially defensive set.

to B+: AGREE: Screens are gone, losing Gyarados’s best team style, as it would avoid the 2HKO from Zarude Power Whip. It often needs to get a Dragon Dance boost to even do damage, sometimes, as Ice Fang barely dents Tangrowth. But once you can get a good opportunity, it can still be a pain for many balance teams.

to A-: AGREE: The fat pink blob has become a staple on balance teams. Teleport has been great for bringing in the heavy hitter, and wall the other Pokemon for the offensive Pokemon

to A-: AGREE: Its fantastic bulk allows this thing to survive many strong neutral hits such as Lycanroc-D Stone Edge. Calm Mind is used to set up on passive Pokemon such as Chansey, which gets dumpstered by Psyshock. Draining Kiss heals so much HP, further boosting its bulk. Mystical Fire for Steel-types that would resist it’s STAB combination is also fantastic. Also AV sets with Nuzzle are super annoying.

to B+: AGREE: As a former avid Tentacruel hater, I can’t deny that it has been great in the past few weeks. Primarina sets have shifted to RestTalk, meaning it no longer has to worry as much about switching into a Psychic. Tentacruel has found it great that it is hazard control that wouldn’t lose to common Stealth Rock users such as Nihilego and Rhyperior.

PERSONAL NOMINATION

to B-: Tapu Bulu is not the shitmon that the VR would make you seem. Defensive Bulu is really good, as you can run Heavy-Duty Boots while having a pseudo-Leftovers with Grassy Terrain. It’s offensive sets are just more than Swords Dance (don’t use it). Choice Scarf is my favorite offensive set, as it can pick up surprise KOs on Nihilego and Lycanroc-D. With all the versatility it should at least be B-.

Other noms I agree with:

to B+ (psycho boost when)

 

[Sickist]

to A- : basically what everyone else has said, super good outside of stall builds, can provide rocks/wish/status support depending on what you need for your build, even works on some offense playstyles like sun.

keep A+ : I agree Amoonguss should rise, but this should not drop. Tangrowth's Ground resistance, huge physical bulk without need for investment, access to EQ/Knock making it non-glowbro fodder and overall not useless after you click Spore arehuge traits in the metagame right now. While it doesn't have the Toxic immunity or Fairy resistance like Amoonguss has, I think it's ability to actually check stuff like Lycanroc-Dusk and previously mentioned access to Knock Off making it far less passive warrant keeping Tangrowth A+ for the time being, as it is still important glue for a lot of builds.

keep C+ : I've not been very big on Tapu Bulu. I don't think it's any good, but giving the benefit of the doubt due to it being relatively unexplored, I think it should be raised eventually. However, I don't think now is the time for that, as it still hasn't carved a definite spot as far as sets are concerned that would warrant a raise. Like I said, once it actually develops a good set that makes it worth using, I'm not opposed to raising it, but for now it's probably best to keep it where it is.

to B+ : While it's still notably easy to wear down, I think Tentacruel is in a nice spot. Like avg mentioned, it really takes advantage of current metagame trends, like Primarina spamming resttalk sets, and so on. Scald+Sludge+Rapid Spin is also very annoying and hard to keep from removing hazards, as it punishes 99% of our rockers. Also, it has Knock Off too. Overall, I think Tentacruel is due to rise.

Those were really the only discussion points I cared about particularly, but I have a couple nominations of my own.

to B+ : Don't get me wrong, I love Mamoswine. It's probably one of my favorite breakers to spam and I enjoy using it in actual pokemon games when I have the chance. However, the metagame is trending super hard against it right now. Rotom-Wash is everywhere, Scizor, Mew, and offensive waters are everywhere, Lycandusk is getting better, which all make Mamoswine lose a ton of breathing room. I still think Mamoswine is decent, but its lack of bulk and middling speed tier leave it in a worse spot right now than an A- ranking reflects.

I don't have a nom for this mon atm, but I think it's SpDef set is pretty good, even better than physdef. While you lose the ability to check most physical attackers, SpDef Gastro lets you beat Chandy, Nidoqueen, Salamence, Glowbro, and Knock Nihilego, all in one slot. Like I said, I'm not advocating for a rise yet, but I think it has some potential that could enable a rise in the coming months.

 

[Adaam]

Quick comments:

I think it's time we swap Tang and Amoonguss again. Goggles spam is no more and Spore is as devastating as it's ever been. It's a bit worse than Tangrowth in checking Thundurus, Lycanroc (with Psychic Fangs), and Aegislash, but Spore is just so ridiculous a move. The Fighting/Fairy resist is also pretty clutch and makes up for its inferiority with taking Earthquakes.

Krook is also A+ material and is one of the most splashable glue mons in the tier. Intimidate + STAB Knock Off + Rocks + Aegislash and Mew check + Electric immunity + Toxic offers so much utility and guarantees its going to make progress for you every game. Even hard hard coutners like Buzzwole, Tangrowth, Salamence, and Zarude detest item removal and Toxics (or in Zarude's case, forces a turn to Jungle Heal). I use this mon on the majority of my teams and find it hard to justify any other Ground-type in the tier. Scarf is also still solid as it revenges the two biggest pains in the ass in all of UU (Thundurus and Lycanroc).

Slowbro-G is simply overrated and should drop. CM is hard to justify in an Aegislash metagame, so AV finds itself more splashable, and AV is simply not an A+ mon. A is more fitting to it.

Lastly, I hinted before but Lycanroc has cemented itself as one of the tier's fiercest wallbreakers. With coverage up the wazoo, hard counters simply do not exist for this Pokemon, as even Pokemon like Buzzwole and Aegislash fold to Psychic Fangs and Crunch. Not to mention how damn good Accelerock is for stopping DD mons in their tracks. Definite A+ material.

 

[Rae]

Nom time!

-> A+: Lycanroc-D is a terrifying wallbreaker, and I don't have many things to say about it that haven't been covered in previous post. Murder Dog can really just run through teams if it's give breathing room, and definitely is fitting of A+

: I don't really know where i stand with these two, they're both crucial members to teams and offer so much, with AV Tang being one of the best glue mons in the tier and Amoonguss' ability to Spore threats, which is amazing as long as you avoid a Ramoment. I feel like these two fluctuate constantly and you could honestly either drop Tangrowth or raise Amoonguss.

-> A+: Very much agree with Adaam's post above. Krookodile is an incredible Pokemon for many of the reasons listed: Intimidate, Knock Off + Rocks, being an Aegislash and Mew check, an Electric immunity and the ability to run Toxic makes for incredible role compression. Choice Scarf is a great set and Choice Band, while underrated, is incredibly powerful. A+ for sure

-> A-: Overall, I agree with most statements about Chansey. It's found it's way onto balance and bulky balance teams as well as being a Stall staple. You really can change up it's move slots to better fit the team and Chansey will always be one of the best Special Walls in any tier with Eviolite, so I support the rise to A-

-> A-: Hatterene is a very under-the-radar threat which absolutely loves all the Spikes and Hazard Stack going around. Magic Bounce is just an incredible ability, and pairing it with great bulk, coverage and Calm Mind + Draining Kiss makes for a solid Pokemon that not only to check a multitude of Pokemon, but also pose a very serious threat to opposing teams.

Keep A-: Mamoswine is absolutely crazy, when it gets in it does massive damage to almost anything and is able to Knock things off like Rotom-W. While it is true that a lot of things outspeed it and revenge kill it, Mamoswine's sheer power and wallbreaking ability allows it to stay in A-

:

to B+: I shit you not, azelf is worthy of being at the B+ rank right now. Between both the nasty plot and pivot set azelf has begun a solid threat in the tier. Its nasty plot set is a fearsome wallbreaker, being basically the fastest threat in the tier since who the fuck uses any of the others. At +2 it shreds defensive teams apart, only truly fearing umbreon as the sole method of beating it, which only really fits on stall. It can surprisingly eat a priority attack from scizor and KO back, not to mention it actually sets up on a lot of things it forces out like keldeo. The pivot set is more common in tours, where it can act as an annoying fast pivot, knocking off items like leftovers on aegi and eviolite on chansey and pivoting out while still dispatching threats like nihilego and keldeo for the team. I get azelf has been a joke in this thread, and I wasn't crazy about it myself, but I'm willing to say that azelf is a good Pokemon in the tier and should rise to B+ to reflect that.

Don't make me turn you into a meme too, however i do very much agree that Azelf is actually pretty damn good. Nasty Plot is super scary when coupled with it's speed tier, which allows it to outspeed pretty much the entirety of the unboosted metagame. I admittedly haven't seen the pivot set so I won't leave any thoughts on it for now, but i support a rise to B+. Good job BigFatMantis

Last nom, make fun of me if you wish

-> B-/B: I think that we've been a bit too mean to Bulu in general. It's offensive sets are still somewhat useful and defensive sets have also seen a minor surge in usage, I do agree that there is a lot of experimentation to be had with it thanks to it's versatility, passive recovery, and ability to check certain things with it's different sets so i'm down for B-, B being a bit of a stretch.