Lower Tiers Stadium OU Hub

[Enigami]

Credit to Force Fire for these amazing Stadium model PNGs! Banner by me.
| Viability Rankings | Strategy Dex | Sample Teams | Mechanics & Beginner's Guide |​

With the Viability Rankings established and the Global Championship and RoA Spotlight behind us, it seems like a good time to open up this thread. Here you can discuss anything pertaining to Stadium OU, such as teams, interesting sets, metagame trends, replay analysis, or just general opinions. This format has only recently gained a "reliable" simulator in the recent updates to Pokemon Showdown, so the current format can be seen as quite new.

Thread Rules
• Do not ask basic questions here, go to the Simple Question Simple Answer thread for that.
• No one-liners, contribute to the discussion at hand.
• If posting a replay, explain what makes it significant, etc
• Posts should be related to Stadium OU and not deviate from the standard ruleset.

Stadium OU Ruleset

• Stadium Sleep Clause - A player cannot put two of their opponent's Pokémon to sleep at one time. Run innately by Stadium itself, only it also counts an opposing Pokemon using Rest as well. This doesn't affect its activation, so multiple Pokemon can be resting at one time.
• Freeze Clause - A player cannot freeze two of their opponent's Pokémon at the same time. All effects of moves that would cause freeze are prevented from taking effect while Freeze Clause is active. This is run innately in Stadium.
• Self-KO Clause - In the event a Pokémon KOes itself with Self-Destruct or Explosion and the use results in a tie, the user automatically loses.
• Species Clause - A player cannot have two Pokémon with the same National Pokédex number on a team. For example, you cannot have 2 Koffing on your team.
• Evasion Clause - A Pokémon may not have the moves Double Team or Minimize in its moveset.
• OHKO Clause - A Pokémon may not have the moves Fissure, Guillotine, or Horn Drill in its moveset.
• Endless Battle Clause - In the event of an endless battle, a draw is called.
• Tradeback Clause - Tradeback moves from GSC are not allowed.

For resources, review the RBY Resource Hub.

Some starter prompts:

• Any thoughts on Team Preview and the strategies it can provide? Eg. Intel for Zapdos/Rhydon teams, lead prediction, etc.
• Thoughts on Substitute? Experienced players tend to see it as an interesting twist that gives the metagame a strong identity, while others believe it's broken and should be banned.
• With the rise of RestEgg, Exeggutor has taken a strong position in the metagame. Do you think it will stay that way, or do you think it will gradually drop off as the metagame adapts?

To crack things off, I'm interested in two Pokemon that (in my opinion) got surprising high placings on the Viability Rankings. I personally think that Golem and Jynx are just not very good Pokemon.

Pretty much everything went wrong for Golem besides its critical hit rate being amped up. Substitute and Team Preview make Exploding with it a very difficult prospect: if the opposing team has Gengar, Rhydon, or other good absorbers, the player is going to be much less inclined to expend them, as they will want to save them to switch in on predicted Explosions. A similar situation can be seen with Zapdos teams, as they will now never bring it in at all knowing full well that they lose momentum for doing so: Golem has much less opportunity to switch in and do its job. All of that being said, Rhydon is the better Pokemon by a country mile, not only doing better than Golem stat-wise except in Speed, but being drastically boosted in viability by Substitute directly buffing something it was already doing extremely well. I cannot fathom why people use Golem in a tier that has only nerfed it while buffing a Pokemon known to outclass it in almost every scenario. If you want a Self-KO move user, BoomLax is right there and even does the role far, far better.

Jynx, on the other hand, ends up making Team Preview very predictable while sleep has catastrophic nerfs in the 0-3 turn duration and Rest counting in Stadium's Sleep Clause. In regards to the sleep nerf, you effectively have a 50:50 chance of getting the cursed 0-1 turn wake while 2-3 is kind of whatever against some Pokemon. While Golem is at least usable for Explosion and better Rhydon team matchups (I guess?) I genuinely see no reason to use Jynx over most other Pokemon. Unless it has some serious adaptation for Lovely Kiss dying off, it seems like it'll drop off extremely quickly. Reviewing the Spotlight Tournament usage stats, all 6 had Lovely Kiss and the win rate overall was middling. If we look at the Global Championship usage stats, we have 42 Jynx uses, ~79% of which revealed Lovely Kiss, with a ~39% win rate overall and a below-average win rate when using Lovely Kiss itself. Every replay I've seen bar a very small minority have it basically choking on air.

I also like the rise in viability that Persian and Kangaskhan have experienced with the revamped Substitute. The Hyper Beam nerf is inconsequential overall, as Substitute lets these two do so much: Persian can be a wincon while making Tauros more expendable, while Kangaskhan can pummel Chansey thanks to its ridiculous HP and thus the ability to absorb Seismic Tosses. They're so fun to play around with and I hope this upturn continues for the forseeable future, it's really cool. I also summon Ctown6 to maybe bring up that one really cool Kangaskhan set they were using in the Global Championship. I think it had Mega Kick or something?

In terms of those prompts...

Any thoughts on Team Preview and the strategies it can provide? Eg. Intel for Zapdos/Rhydon teams, lead prediction, etc.

I think Team Preview helps Stadium OU distinguish itself while making it more accessible for players with a passing interest in RBY. It keeps that newgen familiarity factor while introducing older mechanics at the same time. Additionally, it reduces variance that the lack of Team Preview can cause, such as surprise sweeps from things like Articuno or Zapdos. There flexible leads also adds some flavour: if you know they're doing a lead Thunder Wave sort of thing, use a fast Substitute or Snorlax, etc. Sure this is just generic stuff that those who play Team Preview gens know, but it's cool in the context of RBY, y'know?

Thoughts on Substitute? Experienced players tend to see it as an interesting twist that gives the metagame a strong identity, while others believe it's broken and should be banned.

I've noticed that the people who dislike Substitute are usually the ones that have not played the metagame for more than like, 15 games at most. While counterplay to Substitute was limited, it wasn't erased and oftentimes the users complained about actually suck at using it. For example, Substitute Alakazam is effortlessly PP stalled because it's forced to only run Psychic while also losing to Seismic Toss Chansey...I legit see that set as a noob killer at best. Starmie is in a similar boat, and Chansey can sometimes experience hardship as it has a slight case of 4MSS when using it. Substitute can certainly lengthen games but from what I've seen it's about the same as regular RBY on average.

With the rise of RestEgg, it has taken a place as a very strong Pokemon in the metagame. Do you think it will stay that way, or do you think it will gradually drop off as the metagame adapts?

Considering the metagame isn't intensely played and there aren't many other options for the walking palm tree, I can see RestEgg sticking around for a very long time. Stadium kind of broke this poor bastard's kneecaps: sleep nerf, Substitute, Explosion generally being a bit worse...despite this, it's adapted in the best way possible. I really like this new Exeggutor and I think it has a lot of further optimisation potential.

 

[Ortheore]

Tbh I really don't see any reason to run Jynx. More than any other pokemon, its viability is based on sleep, which is practically irrelevant in this format. Gengar is shit, but at least it has some defensive utility, so it can at least be a fringe mon (has almost no offensive potential lol). Egg would've plummeted off the face of the earth, but Rest suddenly being good (I think the loss of HB is probably the biggest factor for this) means that it's arguably even more prevalent than in RBY. I think if you're going to run sleep, you need to immediately be in a position to threaten to sweep/wallbreak as you're just not getting enough value out of sleep to justify the risk in going for it otherwise. Even then it's dicey, since the pokemon that match this description either get screwed by HB nerf (Bel/Venu) or rely on Hypnosis (Poli).

I think to characterise Golem as unviable is a bit harsh. I agree that stadium mechanics don't help it insofar as boom is a lot less safe, while Don still exists. That said, I think it's definitely usable, just not very good. It at least has a clearly defined role that is still somewhat useful, unlike Jynx, while arguably team preview helps it somewhat in that you know immediately whether you need to preserve it or if you're free to blow it up on something. I also think that saying that Don's Subs get substantially better is technically true, but the improvement is far less than what is experienced by every other pokemon, since Don is already immune to the most prominent status move in the game, limiting the benefit of Sub blocking status. With all that said, I don't want to try to argue that it's good, just that it's not as bad as Jynx

The biggest thing for me is that Electric types, especially Zap, feel soooooo much worse. Jolt does get functioning FEnergy which is cool, however the modified crit rates are a mild buzzkill, and more importantly Rest Egg being everywhere limits the set's potential. However, Zap gets absolutely nothing from Stadium's mechanics- Agility is much worse, and obviously both electric types get absolutely screwed by team preview, which dials their matchup dependency all the way to the max, since (Gol)Don players will know immediately to preserve it. Jolt>Zap imo.

I don't think Sub is broken, but it's a hell of a lot less fun to play with, at least for me. Sub Chansey fills me with rage.

 

[Ctown6]

Alright so I’ll add a few thoughts here to keep the discussion going an add some input.

first and foremost Jynx is in fact bad, possibly UU status once the time comes to make that tiering decision. I’ve played around in the builder with dropping Lovely Kiss, problem is Jynx doesn’t really have any good alternate options. Reflect+Rest isn’t enough to save it from being absolutely molly whopped by any physical attacker in the tier. Mimic is bad unless you are really lucky making it very inconsistent overall. It doesn’t have enough durability to make use of Ice Beam + Blizzard, which in theory could actually be nice if it stuck around.

The one saving grace Jynx has, is the absolute dominance of Eggy, currently being used more so than even Tauros, but more on that later. Problem once again is that with team preview no one in there right might will lead Exeggutor after seeing Jynx, Starmie and Zam are amazing options and yeah Jynx is just not good currently. Although freeze and jacked up STAB Blizz is always nice, so maybe someone will make it work at some point.

I don’t really feel a need to touch on Golem. PVK and Ortheore said plenty and yeah Rhydon is even more superior than it is in OU, unviable is a bit harsh but yeah it’s a lot harder to use than Don generally making it not worth it.

Exeggutor on the other hand, is a trend I do see continuing. A while ago, Zam wasleading so many games and clicking sub, now Egg is leading almost every serious game I’ve been a part of. Delphi showed me an interesting build that looked to Use Hypno as a lead to deter opposing egg, and save her egg for late game equipped with explosion. But I don’t see anything stopping egg, it’s just too safe and consistent. It gets off rest easily, and usually wakes easily to threaten you some more, spreads para easily and yeah this thing is great. Jynx not being around helps and Zapdos being used less is great as well.

To finish up I’ll speak on Kanga, Persian, and Kabutops.

First up I haven’t used Persian all that much, it just doesn’t feel worth it to me, it’s to frail and can’t switch in against anything, you might get a double or two per game, but the pace of stadium being so slow means, at least in my opinion, that having Persian and Tauros can really make the early game hard. Tauros of course being able to be used as a breaker, rather than a cleaner is great and can provide some serious offensive pressure, so I think it’s an interesting concept thats definitely worth bringing every once in a while, if that’s your style. Getting up a sub with Persian can be terrifying especially in the late game with para support and things like Egg and Lax taking a nap. However once again when the time comes, this thing should be UU.

Kanga suffers from some of the same issues, as it’s really hard to switch in, you really have to get it in on a chipped/ Parlayzed Chansey or a sleeping Snorlax. However should you get in and should you get behind a sub, the output is nasty. The initial set looked like this:


Kangaskhan (F)
Ability: none
- Substitute
- Mega Kick
- Earthquake
- Body Slam

Mega Kick is particularly brutal thanks to these calcs:

Kangaskhan Mega Kick vs. Chansey: 344-405 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.8% chance to 2HKO

Kangaskhan Mega Kick vs. Snorlax: 164-193 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 78% chance to 3HKO

Kangaskhan Mega Kick vs. Exeggutor: 140-165 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Now of course you have to HIT. This move is really unreliable, but if Kanga cooperates you might just shit on your opponent. Also 103 HP subs are obviously good because Chans is commonly inclined to run Stoss. Again, make this thing UU. Hard to get on the field, accuracy issues, etc. you can probably drop Mega Kick but if your gonna use Kanga I just say fuck it. All or nothing for me.

Now for an underrated mon that needs to be talked about and needs to be respected. The great Kabutops. As time has gone on I’ve realized this thing is great. Not in like a lol kabu way, in like I will always consider bringing it to a tournament set. So many Lax running reflect + ice means unlike Persian and Kanga, you have a clear cut method to get on the field without risky doubles. You get up a sub for free on Lax, and although 3 slash’s will never KO. You can go for a surf crit or force an extremely predictable rest loop, or even better force it to switch out while sleeping.

Chuvas plot armor (Kabutops)
Ability: none
- Substitute
- Slash
- Surf
- Rest

Kabutops Slash vs. Snorlax on a critical hit: 142-167 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Kabutops Slash vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 297-350 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Kabutops Slash vs. Exeggutor on a critical hit: 120-142 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 50.6% chance to 3HKO

This thing isn’t so powerful, it isn’t so fast, but it has an incredible niche and at the end of the day there’s nothing aside from Gengar that wants to switch in to take a Slash, and in my personal experience Kabu has been very good.

Shoutouts to Chuva for creating these sets with me, he deserves a lot of credit, homie is a menace

edit: I might touch on substitute later but I’m out of time lel

 

[Mikon]

Wanted to give some thoughts on some Pokemon and moves in the metagame.

Exeggutor
I really like Exeggutor here, and I'd even go so far as to call it a Big 3 member along with Snorlax and Chansey. It's the best (standard) lead in the metagame by a long shot, walls a bunch of offensive threats, wipes off the damage and remains relevant throughout the game with Rest, spreads paralysis, creates forced recovery turns with Double-Edge or blows a hole in the opponent's team with Explosion... It reminds me a bit of UU Hypno, though it's not quite as dominant. I think it has the potential to remain superb even if things like Cloyster start seeing more usage.

Tauros
I feel that Tauros is less mandatory here, even if it is still the best at what it does. It's hurt by the nerf of Hyper Beam and its lower critical hit rate allowing it to be walled more reliably and by more Pokemon. Tauros is still crippled by status of any kind and contributes 0 defensive utility to a team. Substitute is its compensation, and it is useful, but Tauros gets 2HKOed by half the metagame after using it, and running it means only being able to run one of Stomp, Double-Edge, Earthquake, and Thunderbolt, giving it more room to be walled.

Substitute
Don't run Substitute on these Pokemon, any good Stadium OU team is going to have several ways to wall these if you do. Physical threats (Tauros, Persian, Kangaskhan, Rhydon, Kabutops, etc...) should use it though. I don't believe Substitute is broken, really; most Pokemon that actually benefit from it have difficulty setting it up without predicted switches (thus it requires skill), and the HP drop is significant enough to make it easier to pick them off once the Substitute is gone (meaning you need to be able to assess when it's actually worth using). I also think only 1-2 Pokemon per team should be running Substitute, that being Tauros and occasionally the sixth mon.

Alakazam doesn't deserve 60% usage either, it's still worse than Starmie.

Focus Energy
Focus Energy isn't good; you will always need to find a free turn to set it up, and even after doing so, you have a significant chance to not score a critical hit even when you're using Jolteon. Moreover, these Pokemon are all very frail. If you want to use it, Nidoking is your best option; the Thunder Wave immunity and perfect coverage really do a lot for it, but it's still not something that should be standard by any means due to the inherent problems with Focus Energy and all the weaknesses it has and paralysis support it needs. Though this is unrelated, Focus Energy seems to have a lot more potential in Stadium UU, with Nidoking, Raticate, and Vaporeon all being relevant Pokemon who can use it.

Slowbro
Slowbro is great. Substitute is an underrated option for it, as it protects Slowbro from Thunderbolt critical hits, and even Snorlax can't break it reliably with a single Body Slam. Too many people leave this at maximum Special EVs. Run 216 Special EVs; if you don't, you won't be able to boost to +6 as you would go beyond 999.
EDIT: This is false apparently, you can boost to 999 at maximum Special EVs. You'd still probably want to run less EVs on the simulator as there is an inaccuracy where boosting beyond 1023 results in an overflow.

Zapdos
I don't think that Zapdos is bad here, or that it's worse than Jolteon. It loves Exeggutor's current omnipresence as well as Slowbro being much more common. Its attacking moves are just as powerful as ever. The loss of Agility is a shame, but it can run Substitute or Rest instead. Jolteon still doesn't want to switch into Thunder Wave, and now has to worry much more about Exeggutor. Rhydon is only very slightly more used here than it is in RBY OU, and while Golem has decent usage here, I'd expect it to decline in the future.

Cloyster
Cloyster
Ability: none
- Clamp
- Blizzard
- Explosion
- Rest
yes this is the rby ou set
People don't want to use Cloyster after the Clamp nerf, which is a shame; everything else is kind to it, particularly Exeggutor being on 90% of teams and running Rest. Tauros hardly runs Hyper Beam, so it essentially requires Thunderbolt to break through it. Snorlax is in the same situation, and cannot threaten Cloyster with its popular Amnesia set. It's another switchin for Rhydon in a metagame where Exeggutor is a worse check to it than you'd expect it to be, and it carries a powerful Explosion for Slowbro. Clamp's still a good option for it; being able to secure free switchins and deny recovery is a very worthwhile ability to have. This definitely warrants being OU and deserves much more usage than it's getting imo.

Gengar
Gengar
Ability: none
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Rest
Gengar is being underrated as well, though I'm not confident it's OU material. Neither Tauros nor Snorlax run Earthquake more than ~10% of the time, and it blanks Persian as well. I'd say Rest is not a bad option for it, as it lets Gengar remain healthy to check them as well as Starmie lacking Psychic and Cloyster. You're also capable of looping Chansey as it lacks the offence to 3HKO Gengar. Gengar's still got a solid critical hit rate of 18%, so it can be a good choice for fishing for critical hits with Thunderbolt on Slowbro. Needless to say, Explosion is nice as well, and Gengar having an immunity to it itself gives it unique utility.


Neither of these should be OU but I won't go into them as everything has already been said. It'd be nice to see Jynx especially drop and have a lead in Stadium UU that isn't named Hypno.

Lapras
Another Pokemon that should most likely be UU. I might go into this more once I've actually tested it.

Kangaskhan
I don't like Kangaskhan at all. Yes, you have 103HP Substitutes, but losing Hyper Beam is hardly "inconsequential" and you have to rely on the inaccurate, weaker Mega Kick instead. Its Attack is nothing impressive either and a team's going to be equipped to handle Tauros, which is far better than it, in the first place. Its Special is absolutely godawful, opening it up to being 2HKOed by decently powerful special attacks. Kangaskhan's Substitutes aren't unique to it either; Rhydon can do the same thing while having the most powerful physical attack in the game without a drawback, having the ability to switch in on Thunder Wave, and being able to stonewall Jolteon and Zapdos and absorb Explosions. Finally, Kangaskhan has no advantage over Persian against Chansey if it isn't running Seismic Toss, which it drops half the time, and Persian can ignore Reflect with Slash while it cannot.

Kabutops
I agree with Ctown on this, Kabutops looks very promising here from what I've seen and played.

Hypno
Hypno
Ability: none
- Psychic
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
Hypno is slightly faster than Exeggutor, has Thunder Wave for fully reliable paralysis, and also Seismic Toss to force Rest more quickly than it can. This is why I think it could be a more efficient lead than it is. Obviously, you would never drop Exeggutor from your team for it, as Exeggutor's Ground and Electric resistances and better bulk are much more important overall. However, bringing both might be worthwhile, as the point of leading Hypno imo is to keep Exeggutor away from damage and status so it can check Rhydon better later in the game and free it up to use Explosion instead of Double-Edge. Hypno has a nice movepool, but I doubt it has room to run anything not in the set above. It's very untested though, so I might be proven wrong.

Not taking super effective damage from Ice and Flying makes Hypno's life easier against Starmie, Chansey, Zapdos, and paralyzed Cloyster.


lol

 

[Blue Cloyster]

I made an excel ages ago to work out crit rates in Gen 1 Stadium OU as I couldn't find them anywhere so as there's a spotlight I thought I'd post them now.

Stadium Critical Hit Rates

Speed Stat	Pokémon	Speed	Crit Chance	Crit Chance with High Crit Moves
378	Electrode	140	21.09	99
358	Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Mewtwo	130	20.12	99
338	Alakazam, Dugtrio	120	19.14	99
328	Persian, Starmie	115	18.65	99
318	Gengar, Tauros	110	18.16	99
308	Electabuzz, Kadabra, Rapidash, Scyther	105	17.68	99
298	Charizard, Dodrio, Fearow, Mew, Ninetales, Raichu, Tentacruel, Zapdos	100	17.19	99
292	Raticate	97	16.89	99
288	Arcanine, Haunter, Jynx, Primeape	95	16.70	99
284	Magmar	93	16.50	99
280	Pidgeot	91	16.31	99
278	Golbat, Kangaskahn, Moltres, Mr. Mime, Venomoth	90	16.21	99
272	Hitmonlee	87	15.92	99
268	Articuno, Golduck, Nidoking, Pinsir, Seadra	85	15.72	99
260	Gyarados	81	15.33	99
258	Arbok, Dragonite, Kabutops, Venusaur	80	15.23	99
254	Blastoise	78	15.04	99
250	Hitmonchan, Nidoqueen	76	14.84	99
248	Beedrill, Kingler	75	14.75	99
238	Butterfree, Cloyster, Dewgong, Magneton, Onix, Poliwrath, Victreebel	70	14.26	99
234	Seaking	68	14.06	99
232	Hypno	67	13.96	99
228	Flareon, Sandslash, Vaporeon	65	13.77	99
218	Clefable, Farfetch'd, Lapras, Tangela, Weezing	60	13.28	99
208	Exeggutor, Machamp, Omastar	55	12.79	99
198	Chansey, Muk, Vileplume	50	12.30	98.4375
194	Ditto	48	N/A	N/A
188	Golem, Marowak, Wigglytuff	45	11.82	94.53125
178	Porygon, Rhydon	40	11.33	90.625
158	Lickitung, Parasect, Slowbro, Snorlax	30	10.35	82.8125

 

[Toxin Boost]

Figured I'd drop my VR and some thoughts about this tier

VR

VR Explanations

S+

Without question the best pokemon in the tier, it hits like a truck, takes hits like a champ, It has a much higher crit rate, it can fulfill many different roles which allows it to fit onto any team. This guy is mandatory, and every team needs a plan to take this beast out.

S

Not nearly as mandatory or dominant as Snorlax but still worth bringing on every team as it can check a good amount of pokemon and is without question the best answer to Rhydon available.

The best Special wall in the tier, the lack of offense hurts this thing so there is an argument you could build Chansey-less hyper offense but I don't think it's ever worth it.

A+

Tauros is the best revenge killer and one of the best wall breakers available with a large movepool and great stats backed by a high crit rate allowing it to break through anything it desires, it's also one of the pokemon at closing end games, however the lack of longevity keeps it from S tier.

The changes to crit rates helped slowbro a lot as now it's much harder to stop it by simply landing a critical hit, it also appreciates the nerf to hyper beam as that's one less attack it has to fear ending its sweep. Slowbro is also great defensively checking a ton of important threats, however this is still Slowbro so the consistency issues keep it from being higher up.

A

Starmie is the other side of the Slowbro coin, nowhere near as threatening but extremely consistent, however Slowbro is a better pokemon as it can threaten to sweep while Starmie just can't, and you can't really justify using both on the same team.

Rhydon is the premier Zapdos counter and a great physical attacker, however it faces troubles getting onto the field with all the ice moves and it struggles to make progress with Exeggutor around.

A-

The best Snorlax and Tauros check around, it does face issues with Starmie Slowbro and thunderbolt variants of the normals but being able to stop Snorlax and Tauros is just so valuable. And of course, you can always go boom if you need to.

The other Zapdos Counter, Jolteon is a fine pokemon but it has issues with Exeggutor and Chansey, to say nothing of Rhydon, If supported right Jolteon can be a great mon as it even switches into chansey but it faces sever issues, often facing multiple of its checks in a single battle.

Persian faces stiff competition from Tauros as there is almost never any reason to run it over Tauros but if you can get past that and either run both or make an excuse to use Persian instead of Tauros you will quickly find out this thing is very good, just not as good as Tauros.

B

One of the most polarizing pokemon in Stadium to be sure, as there is a lot to love but at the same time there is almost nothing this guy can do that is others can't. You can either use Alakazam as a midgame Chansey switch in that, compared to Jolteon, can do more damage to Exeggutor and Rhydon but does much worse against Zapdos, or you can use it endgame with substitute as a gimmicky but potentially extremely scary sweeper.

B-

Another one of the most polarizing pokemon in Stadium, with incredible stats, amazing mixed attacking potential, and the ability to be worthless on turn 0 this guy sure makes an impression. To be fair the frankly absurd usage of sub rest rockslide-less Rhydon gives Zapdos some recourse as it can actually wall that Rhydon set with rest, which is funny if nothing else.

Being the only ghost in the game allows it to wall greedy Snorlax or Tauros that skimp out on earthquake to have more coverage, however gengar comes with the chance of being worthless against eq variants and it's also very easy to switch into and threaten out.

The best answer to Snorlax in the tier that loses to pretty much everything else, most people seem to think that Porygon is worse off in stadium due to Snorlax' higher crit rate but I actually think it improved. The chance of getting crit twice in a row is very low especially if Snorlax is paralyzed and Porygon itself benefits from the higher crit rate meaning it can more easily force Amnesia Snorlax to rest. I honestly considered putting Porygon higher but most people are already gonna disagree with Porygon being this high and it's hard to justify putting it much higher than this.

C

Another Snorlax answer that can actually threaten the opposing team, but with the caveat of losing to both earthquake and thunderbolt Snorlax and being unable to check anything else.

Some people will disagree with me putting lap this low but what does this thing do that makes it worth using? Sure thunderbolt is nice for Starmie and Cloyster but compared to Cloyster lapras can barely handle Snorlax and is much worse off against every physical attacker except Persian, but at that point just run Gengar. Also I'm not counting the bugged confuse that makes lapras a god.

The best focus energy user is a pretty neat title, too bad you can just run persian or any other fast threat and farm for crits without even wasting a turn. Nidoking does have pretty good role compression as it's a wall breaker and a stop to electric types but it kinda sucks at both of those, as it can't handle Zapdos' drill peck too many times and can easily be revenge killed after setting up, it does have potential against slower teams but stadium seems to be heading into a more fast paced direction unfortunately.

C-

Golem is another stop to electric types with the unique ability to explode, problem is Rhydon doesn't need to explode to make progress whereas golem does. If supported right I could see golem being decent but I will never not ask myself why I don't just bring Rhydon.

Just another normal type but with the unique ability to create 101 hp substitutes that survive Chansey seismic toss, but if your opponent is using reflect-toss Chansey trust me you do not need to counter team that. If you want another normal just use Persian.

Flareon is another focus energy user that can OHKO Exeggutor with a crit, but it struggles against so much and is revenged killed so easily that it's just not worth it.

I have never tested or seen Hypno used but on paper it seems like a secondary Exeggutor to block the opponent Exeggutor with so you can keep yours healthy. It sounds alright and I want to test it sometime but I can't justify putting it above other things I've used with success.

Special Mentions


Surprisingly high ranked on the official VR considering how bad this thing truly is. Please don't use Jynx it just lets in Starmie or Slowbro then when it uses rest it lets in Tauros or Snorlax.


I probably should have ranked this higher but I have never seen this used and it seems outclassed by other normal checks like Cloyster.


This is actual cheeks please don't use this unless you are trying to be funny.

Threat watch

This is a section dedicated to pokemon and sets I think are underrated and need to be used more and watched out for.

Hyper Beam
Hyper Beam was absolutely destroyed in Stadium so it makes sense why you rarely see this move but of all the pokemon to use it Snorlax is probably the best. It has a very high attack stat and is very bulky so the recharge turn isn't as bad as it would be for others, and the potential extra ko could be game breaking.

Amnesia Bolt-Beam
I've only seen this set once and it needs more recognition as it's actually a very strong sweeper if Chansey is out of the picture and it can also fish for freezes if it comes to that.

Thunderbolt
With Thunderbolt Tauros can destroy Cloyster and has extra recourse against Slowbro, which trust me you are going to want, it also gives a slightly harder smack on Starmie guaranteeing the 3HKO.

Rockslide
I've seen way too many Sub Rest Rockslide-less Rhydons and it needs to stop, whether you drop rest or sub is a personal choice but if you keep running slide-less don you will get punished by flying types and even just Exeggutor as it's very difficult to break without slide. To be clear Slide-less don isn't bad it's just rather specific and has been used far too much.

In General
Cloyster is very underrated in Stadium being the best answer to Snorlax and Tauros without Thunderbolt. While it does struggle against a lot of other pokemon and is smacked hard by thunderbolt it's rare for Tauros and Especially Snorlax to have Thunderbolt and Snorlax and Tauros are so powerful that being able to prevent them from making progress is invaluable, Cloyster also benefits from Ice stab meaning Exeggutor can't switch in until Closter rests.

In General
Much like Cloyster Porygon is a check to Snorlax, but instead of fearing Thunderbolt this duck fears the power of forgetting, Amnesia. Amnesia is one of Snorlax's better sets but generally Porygon can force it to rest and bring in a heavy hitting teammate that can ko it. Of course, the Amnesia matchup still isn't good, but Porygon makes up for that by completely walling any other Snorlax variant, and as I stated before Snorlax is so dominant that being able to prevent it from making progress is a powerful thing.

Fraud watch

This is a section dedicated to pokemon and sets I think are bad and are still getting used despite there being much better choices.

Reflect
The more I've used this set the more I've soured towards it. It's not that bad but by using this set you're giving up on Snorlax's true offensive power and most of the time Reflect barely does that much. It's not nearly as bad as some of these other sets but I think most teams can just fit a Normal Check and use a better, more offensively threatening Snorlax set.

Reflect-Toss
Now on the complete opposite side of the coin Reflect Chansey is complete trash, and I would never recommend it over ice-bolt or even Substitute. I mean seriously Snorlax has a 10% crit rate, Rhydon has 11% and Tauros still has 18%, and that not even mentioning how obscenely passive this set is. Please just stay away from this set.

Surf-Bolt/Eggroll
With Rest Exeggutor usage being 100% in most tours it's not hard to see why this set is bad, normally one of Starmie's selling points is switching into Exeggutor and forcing it out, but this set just cannot do that.

Substitute
Newer players often assume Substitute is broken in Stadium and Alakazam is one of the most prominent users of this move, but let me set the record straight, Substitute is nowhere even close to broken and Substitute Alakazam is barely even useable. If you try to use Substitute Alakazam too early you will run into Chansey and Exeggutor and use up all your Psychics, so this set is pretty much reserved for a late game cleaner where it can setup on a special wall incapable of breaking its sub and then try to win the game from there. Sounds decent on paper but imagine trying to pull this off in practice you not only need the game to go a certain way but also hope your opponent has no idea what you're trying to do. TLDR not horrible but not good either.

In General
Pretty much just a worse version of Cloyster, you can still use Confuse ray to cheese for wins but as soon as that is patched there will be almost zero reason to run this pokemon.

Lmao
Her VR placement alone makes her worthy of fraud watch, I mean holy crap how the fridge is this thing ranked above Cloyster, that should be a crime.

TLDR

Snorlax is borderline broken, Cloyster is fucking awesome and Reflect Chansey is actually the worst.

 

[gastlies]

Agree with the take on HB being underrated, especially on lax. One other set that I've tried out that seems quite good is HB + Rest Tauros. The idea is that you can use HB to finish off a Chansey or Exeggutor or something that would normally live a different move. Normally the opponent would be able to revenge and paralyze Tauros on the recharge turn, but then Tauros can click Rest and just needs to find chances to burn sleep for it to be healthy again, which isn't too hard in current Stadium because of how passive all the teams are.