That looks pretty legit to me, so for now lynch LonelyNess
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[Standard] Ender's Second Game - Game Over! Lots of people won!
- Thread starter Aura Guardian
- Start date
Vote changed (read post #35)
I wanna take LonelyNess for a ride.
This is a multi factioned game, and not all of you factions have kills.
Those factions wanting to gain the favor of some kills should come to me. As the wolves' killer, my vow to you is this: only pequinos will die to my hand.
Lynch zorbees
Hive Queens / Lusitanians / Starways / Fleets
Let's show these yuppie pequinos that they are not the village, and they are not in control of this lynch.
Those factions wanting to gain the favor of some kills should come to me. As the wolves' killer, my vow to you is this: only pequinos will die to my hand.
Lynch zorbees
Hive Queens / Lusitanians / Starways / Fleets
Let's show these yuppie pequinos that they are not the village, and they are not in control of this lynch.
LonelyNess.
lynch LonelyNess
Hold on, everybody. I think we may be a bit too hasty with our lynching of LonelyNess. I beleive that we should take him up on his offer and lynch off zorbees instead.
Consider a few of the facts we know: LonelyNess is the carrier of this wolf alliance's killing power. If he is to die, presumably it will just pass on to one of his partners, someone we DON'T know. While the kill remains in LonelyNess' hands, we know where it's going: to a pequino. If it passes, it becomes unaccountable, and any faction is again at risk.
Keeping LonelyNess alive, and held accountable for his kill, is beneficial to ALL factions except the pequinos... but I would question why any faction EXCEPT for the pequinos would be against this. Every faction SHOULD be of the opinion "as long as it's not mine, I'm fine." Allowing LonelyNess' survival maintains accountability on one of the most important things in the game of mafia: kills. To lynch him and pass his kill off to one of his unknown partners, rather than take advantage of the fact that he's more than willing to kill the pequinos for us (meaning instead of a 1/4 shot for a win, each faction not named the pequinos now has a 1/3 shot to win.) puts us all at unnecessary risk, and would be foolish in my honest opinion.
Because of this, as long as LonelyNess has tabs kept on him to ensure that he kills who he says he's going to kill, I see no reason not to leave him around, and since he's decided to pick off the pequinos, we may as well start lynching them as well... so because of all this, I've decided to Change Lynch.
EDIT:
I have been persuaded to Lynch Lonelyness
Consider a few of the facts we know: LonelyNess is the carrier of this wolf alliance's killing power. If he is to die, presumably it will just pass on to one of his partners, someone we DON'T know. While the kill remains in LonelyNess' hands, we know where it's going: to a pequino. If it passes, it becomes unaccountable, and any faction is again at risk.
Keeping LonelyNess alive, and held accountable for his kill, is beneficial to ALL factions except the pequinos... but I would question why any faction EXCEPT for the pequinos would be against this. Every faction SHOULD be of the opinion "as long as it's not mine, I'm fine." Allowing LonelyNess' survival maintains accountability on one of the most important things in the game of mafia: kills. To lynch him and pass his kill off to one of his unknown partners, rather than take advantage of the fact that he's more than willing to kill the pequinos for us (meaning instead of a 1/4 shot for a win, each faction not named the pequinos now has a 1/3 shot to win.) puts us all at unnecessary risk, and would be foolish in my honest opinion.
Because of this, as long as LonelyNess has tabs kept on him to ensure that he kills who he says he's going to kill, I see no reason not to leave him around, and since he's decided to pick off the pequinos, we may as well start lynching them as well... so because of all this, I've decided to Change Lynch.
EDIT:
I have been persuaded to Lynch Lonelyness
This is confusing me. My vote will come a couple of hours later, I need to talk with some people, I'll knock myself silly again.
After talking with LonelyNess in the past few minutes, I think it makes most sense to lynch zorbees for the time being. If LonelyNess is what the role PM says, and he is after Pequinos, there is no reason to lynch him, unless you are a Pequino. If he steps out of line, then we can kill him, but until then, hes doing all of us a favor and getting rid of a common enemy.
Join us!
Join us!
Ok, this mess seems clear now.
Is lynch zorbees what we are doing?
EDIT2: No Lynch.
Is lynch zorbees what we are doing?
EDIT2: No Lynch.
I'm going to drop a big bomb on this game by revealing the "secret twist" regarding the factions and how they are aligned. This is in fact a lynchpin mafia game. However, it is a bit more complex than a traditional lynchpin game like Max Carnage or Pokemon Lynchpin. The three factions Lusitanians, Pequininos, and Hive Queen are allied through three different lynchpins; One bewteern Peq/Lus, one between HQ/Lus, one between HQ/Peq. Starways Congress and Lusitanian Fleet are also allied through a single lynchpin. The reason why it is bad to lynch me is because the three allied factions have the numbers advantage over the Congress/Fleet, and even if the wolves side with them, I believe. Therefore, anyone siding with the Lusitanians, Pequininos, or Hive Queen should lynch LonelyNess or no one at all. I would prefer to work with LonelyNess but if the majority of you want to get rid of the wolf, that is also fine.
I don't see how the knowledge of lynchpins changes anything.
Lynchpins always die. It is smarter for you all to play as though they don't even exist, because playing with the hopes that they survive is a fool's venture, because simply put, they won't. If you disagree with this... then I guess I don't even know why I'm trying, because it should be obvious to everybody. (If you want proof as to why knowing there are lynchpins is worthless, see Max Carnage mafia and Pokemon Lynchpin mafia, where in both, the lynchpins were killed as soon as humanly possible).
And if it truly will be every faction for themselves after the lynchpins inevitably die, then my proposal should be that much more appealing to you all.
Lynchpins always die. It is smarter for you all to play as though they don't even exist, because playing with the hopes that they survive is a fool's venture, because simply put, they won't. If you disagree with this... then I guess I don't even know why I'm trying, because it should be obvious to everybody. (If you want proof as to why knowing there are lynchpins is worthless, see Max Carnage mafia and Pokemon Lynchpin mafia, where in both, the lynchpins were killed as soon as humanly possible).
And if it truly will be every faction for themselves after the lynchpins inevitably die, then my proposal should be that much more appealing to you all.
LN the problem is that the numbers are so small in this game, with 4 of the players being lynchpins. It likely sits like this:
4 Lusitanians
4 Pequininos
4 Hive Queen
3 "Village" Lynchpins
3 Wolves
3 Starways Congress
3 Lusitanian Fleet
1 "Mafia" Lynchpin
=25 players
You are basically proposing that you want your wolf faction to slide in and replace the pequininos, who you plan on eliminating. You want the other factions to fight it out while your wolf faction slips in unnoticed. It is best for the "village" factions to work together because I can guarantee that no "village" faction will win if they have to fight amongst themselves and the mafia, and the wolves. We have to eliminate one of the deadliest players in the game, a nearly unrestricted killer with two allies.
4 Lusitanians
4 Pequininos
4 Hive Queen
3 "Village" Lynchpins
3 Wolves
3 Starways Congress
3 Lusitanian Fleet
1 "Mafia" Lynchpin
=25 players
You are basically proposing that you want your wolf faction to slide in and replace the pequininos, who you plan on eliminating. You want the other factions to fight it out while your wolf faction slips in unnoticed. It is best for the "village" factions to work together because I can guarantee that no "village" faction will win if they have to fight amongst themselves and the mafia, and the wolves. We have to eliminate one of the deadliest players in the game, a nearly unrestricted killer with two allies.
I've said all I can say.
Lynch me and all factions are at risk due to my kill being passed on, and the new killer being unaccountable.
Lynch zorbees and only the pequeninos are at risk and all other factions benefit.
However, I recommend anyone thinking that the pequeninos are this "weak little village faction" to consider what zorbees himself has said to me.
<LonelyNess> your faction presumably has no night kill
<zorbees> you can think thta
<zorbees> if you want
<zorbees> it may not be a good idea.
So who do you trust more? Me, who has laid out everything on the table, or zorbees, who knows that lynchpins mean shit and is withholding information in order to gain the advantage on you all when the lynchpins inevitably die.
You all know what the correct course of action is, so allow that to be my final piece on the matter.
Lynch me and all factions are at risk due to my kill being passed on, and the new killer being unaccountable.
Lynch zorbees and only the pequeninos are at risk and all other factions benefit.
However, I recommend anyone thinking that the pequeninos are this "weak little village faction" to consider what zorbees himself has said to me.
<LonelyNess> your faction presumably has no night kill
<zorbees> you can think thta
<zorbees> if you want
<zorbees> it may not be a good idea.
So who do you trust more? Me, who has laid out everything on the table, or zorbees, who knows that lynchpins mean shit and is withholding information in order to gain the advantage on you all when the lynchpins inevitably die.
You all know what the correct course of action is, so allow that to be my final piece on the matter.
Basically, who you lynch today depends on what style you are playing. My style, lynchpins living, or LN's style, lynchpins dead. Despite what LN says, I can assure you that lynchpins living is the right way to play the game, because I doubt too many lynchpins die. As I would say in a mocking tone, "Who do you trust more? Me, who has seen the lynchpins' role PMs, or LonelyNess, who doesn't know a damn thing about this game's pins."
Regarding the pequininos having a killer, all I was trying to tell LN was that assuming is a bad thing to do in mafia. If we did have a killer, he'd be nowhere near as powerful as a wolf. You can kill on nights 0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7( if we get that far), whereas I doubt a "village" killer would be that unrestricted.
Regarding the pequininos having a killer, all I was trying to tell LN was that assuming is a bad thing to do in mafia. If we did have a killer, he'd be nowhere near as powerful as a wolf. You can kill on nights 0, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7( if we get that far), whereas I doubt a "village" killer would be that unrestricted.
Y'know, except for the village lynchpin. That guy survived in Pokemafia for a long time. I should know, I was trying to kill him.
Why to vote LonelyNess
To be honest I've spent a lot of time considering whether to vote zorbees and gain LN's favour or keeping my vote on LN and keeping my current alliance with the Penguin Men.
Lonelyness is right, every lynchpin game we have played has had all the pins dead. In Maximum Carnage mafia this wasn't avoidable, since there were neutrals designed to hunt down each one in a game where one publicly claimed and the other was a big name (LN himself as a matter of fact). I do not know the circumstances exactly of Pokemon Lynchpin, but I believe that there was some sort of moling or random inspections or something.
However this doesn't have to be the case in this game. We have bodyguards, we have hookers if we find out the killers, we possibly even have martyrs of some sort. All of these can be used to protect the lynchpins (most of whom are currently known to me). If we are careful, there is absolutely no need for any lynchpins to die. We do not know of any unblockable kills as of yet, and AG is not as stupid as he sometimes makes out (just ignore his awesomeness mafia performance here...) He knows that it is a bad idea to put in unblockable kills when you have lynchpins. This was shown in Pokemon Lynchpin Mafia, when the only person who Arceus' Unblockable would not affect was Palkia. This means that we can very easily protect the lynchpins.
Now, about Zorbees concealing information from us (something he's really not doing very well at actually, since he's revealed waaaay too much!). Most notably this refers to his killer. I am not going to deny that this killer exists, indeed I have spoken to the user with this role. However their kill is one time use. We can all work out that the pequininos are going saving it for whoever poses the biggest threat to them, which for most of you means that they provide literally no threat to you. I cannot speak for any other factions, including my own since I am still waiting on a few claims from my team here, however the Penquininos provide no threat from the killer.
All right, I've defended zorbees here, so now to move on to why to lynch LonelyNess. Sure, he kills twice every three nights, which I agree is a massive positive, which is part of the reason why I originally planned to vote with LN. However, look past that and see what else you're getting. A neutral who cannot win with you and will have to be offed at some point no matter what. A killer. A very experienced player who could bit by bit discover all of the information that your faction has and give it to the other two wolves when he is inevitably offed. They then proceed to kill off your faction whilst flying under the radar to an easy win. Do you really want this?
Oh, and also, if we lynch LN now, if we find the remaining two wolves we can threaten a lynch, because at that point if one of them dies, they both lose.
TL;DR - Zorbees may seem untrustworthy and LN may seem like an entirely positive thing for your faction, but you need to look past this and see the big picture. Open your eyes!
Also anyone who does not read this whole post and proceeds to vote zorbees is an enormous pillock.
In addition I would like the last few (?) claims from my faction...
Also sorry to do this to you LN, I did originally plan to lynch with you like I said, but as a faction we decided against it.
To be honest I've spent a lot of time considering whether to vote zorbees and gain LN's favour or keeping my vote on LN and keeping my current alliance with the Penguin Men.
Lonelyness is right, every lynchpin game we have played has had all the pins dead. In Maximum Carnage mafia this wasn't avoidable, since there were neutrals designed to hunt down each one in a game where one publicly claimed and the other was a big name (LN himself as a matter of fact). I do not know the circumstances exactly of Pokemon Lynchpin, but I believe that there was some sort of moling or random inspections or something.
However this doesn't have to be the case in this game. We have bodyguards, we have hookers if we find out the killers, we possibly even have martyrs of some sort. All of these can be used to protect the lynchpins (most of whom are currently known to me). If we are careful, there is absolutely no need for any lynchpins to die. We do not know of any unblockable kills as of yet, and AG is not as stupid as he sometimes makes out (just ignore his awesomeness mafia performance here...) He knows that it is a bad idea to put in unblockable kills when you have lynchpins. This was shown in Pokemon Lynchpin Mafia, when the only person who Arceus' Unblockable would not affect was Palkia. This means that we can very easily protect the lynchpins.
Now, about Zorbees concealing information from us (something he's really not doing very well at actually, since he's revealed waaaay too much!). Most notably this refers to his killer. I am not going to deny that this killer exists, indeed I have spoken to the user with this role. However their kill is one time use. We can all work out that the pequininos are going saving it for whoever poses the biggest threat to them, which for most of you means that they provide literally no threat to you. I cannot speak for any other factions, including my own since I am still waiting on a few claims from my team here, however the Penquininos provide no threat from the killer.
All right, I've defended zorbees here, so now to move on to why to lynch LonelyNess. Sure, he kills twice every three nights, which I agree is a massive positive, which is part of the reason why I originally planned to vote with LN. However, look past that and see what else you're getting. A neutral who cannot win with you and will have to be offed at some point no matter what. A killer. A very experienced player who could bit by bit discover all of the information that your faction has and give it to the other two wolves when he is inevitably offed. They then proceed to kill off your faction whilst flying under the radar to an easy win. Do you really want this?
Oh, and also, if we lynch LN now, if we find the remaining two wolves we can threaten a lynch, because at that point if one of them dies, they both lose.
TL;DR - Zorbees may seem untrustworthy and LN may seem like an entirely positive thing for your faction, but you need to look past this and see the big picture. Open your eyes!
Also anyone who does not read this whole post and proceeds to vote zorbees is an enormous pillock.
In addition I would like the last few (?) claims from my faction...
Also sorry to do this to you LN, I did originally plan to lynch with you like I said, but as a faction we decided against it.
Alright I guess I'll have to post again, if only to debunk what Slim Guldo thinks is a coherent point.
All it takes is for ONE of the lynchpins to die, and all of a sudden everything is fucked up for you the three factions now allied.
Let's say that the Hive Queen / Lusitanian lynchpin dies, and now they can no longer win together. Do you really think that they will be all hunky dory allowing the pequeninos be in the king maker position and having no control over their own destiny as to whether or not they win (because in that situation, the pequeninos can win with either faction)? No, which means they WILL be gunning for the other lynchpin so they can make sure it's them and not the other faction. And it's all even more fucked up when another lynchpin drops.
You can say "but we can keep all of them alive" but what you're suggesting is that the three faction lives with at WORST 6 players (one man from each faction, and the 3 lynchpins). Do you realize the odds of 1/4 of the entire game surviving until the end? It's ridiculous to even think that way.
One of the lynchpins will die eventually, and from there, your little tea party is all fucked up, because now you can't all win. I'm trying to get each faction to realize that even though the lynchpins exist. You are being tricked into a false sense of security with these built in "alliances.". As soon as one lynchpin dies, you will be fucked. The option that I am bringing you says to hell with these kill magnet lynchpins in favor of a more strategic move for all of the factions except for the pequeninos.
If you want to go along and think that the lynchpins won't die, then fine, be my guest; You're not intelligent enough to see logical reasoning anyway so I won't waste my breath. But you will regret that you made the decision.
All it takes is for ONE of the lynchpins to die, and all of a sudden everything is fucked up for you the three factions now allied.
Let's say that the Hive Queen / Lusitanian lynchpin dies, and now they can no longer win together. Do you really think that they will be all hunky dory allowing the pequeninos be in the king maker position and having no control over their own destiny as to whether or not they win (because in that situation, the pequeninos can win with either faction)? No, which means they WILL be gunning for the other lynchpin so they can make sure it's them and not the other faction. And it's all even more fucked up when another lynchpin drops.
You can say "but we can keep all of them alive" but what you're suggesting is that the three faction lives with at WORST 6 players (one man from each faction, and the 3 lynchpins). Do you realize the odds of 1/4 of the entire game surviving until the end? It's ridiculous to even think that way.
One of the lynchpins will die eventually, and from there, your little tea party is all fucked up, because now you can't all win. I'm trying to get each faction to realize that even though the lynchpins exist. You are being tricked into a false sense of security with these built in "alliances.". As soon as one lynchpin dies, you will be fucked. The option that I am bringing you says to hell with these kill magnet lynchpins in favor of a more strategic move for all of the factions except for the pequeninos.
If you want to go along and think that the lynchpins won't die, then fine, be my guest; You're not intelligent enough to see logical reasoning anyway so I won't waste my breath. But you will regret that you made the decision.