I used Choice Band sets for maximum damage output against the supposed counters I was suggesting. Unburden sets prior to SD are much weaker and easier to handle with common mons like Lando, Tusk, and Zapdos and all of which Sneasler cant 2OHKO prior to SD or OHKO after an SD. Sneasler is only broken because you can hax your way through checks with Dire Claw. Which you can't do anything about hax that's why I suggested Cloak as an item to prevent that. Which is not "trash" since I seen ppl would use it on mons like Dozo, Pex, Corv, Garg, Ghold, almost all of which are common knock absorbers. This also considering that they were legit only running it because 1 pokemon. So Dire Claw just gives players more reason to use an item they were already using . As Garg and Sneasler share similar checks. Also tera leaves Sneasler vulnerable to priority such as Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, and Aqua Jet. Which any serious team should have with the speed creep of this gen.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
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I used Choice Band sets for maximum damage output against the supposed counters I was suggesting. Unburden sets prior to SD are much weaker and easier to handle with common mons like Lando, Tusk, and Zapdos and all of which Sneasler cant 2OHKO prior to SD or OHKO after an SD. Sneasler is only broken because you can hax your way through checks with Dire Claw. Which you can't do anything about hax that's why I suggested Cloak as an item to prevent that. Which is not "trash" since I seen ppl would use it on mons like Dozo, Pex, Corv, Garg, Ghold, almost all of which are common knock absorbers. This also considering that they were legit only running it because 1 pokemon. So Dire Claw just gives players more reason to use an item they were already using . As Garg and Sneasler share similar checks. Also tera leaves Sneasler vulnerable to priority such as Ice Shard, Sucker Punch, and Aqua Jet. Which any serious team should have with the speed creep of this gen.
Airballoon Gholdengo- and if you use a specific tera for Ghols that leaves Sneasler wall by other checks I already listed.
What does full physical investment on air balloon Gholdengo does other than best sneasler? You don’t want to trade off the damage.
Fully physdef Ghold is already a set look at (Gholdengo OU Defensive) on the damage calc meaning it has been used enough to be listed as viable set. Also if were talking about made up sets what about CB Night Slash/Shadow Claw/Fire Punch Sneasler? That mon only runs its stabs, acro, tera blast, and potentially switcheroo on the CB set. I was giving it the benefit of the doubt. Also how could you not feel silly clicking any of those moves on CB Sneasler, what if tusk comes in? Like just U-turn...
Just because people use it doesn't make it good. Dozo is a shit Cloak user because it crumpled under hazard pressure extremely quickly unless packing wish support, and even then that's questionable given the way it's so often knock bait. Corv is similarly knock bait so it is a bad user of the item. So you've got Pex, which prefers HDB or AV sets, Garg which prefers leftovers and Gholdengo which is the only mon who has practical applications for the item outside Garg salt cure. And that set just loses to curse water Garg. The item has become far less common, especially on all of these bar Ghold.
See above on the item being much less common nowadays. But also, the fact you need to rely on an overly specific item that has zero value beyond that one match up, is a testament to how bad it is, and how much a problem that Pokemon you're trying to answer is.
Priority being the only way, or one of the only ways, to handle something offensively is a sign of an issue. And speaking of
All of these have potential to just not be counterplay with dire claw hax.
people these days will suggest doing literally anything to avoid banning centralising, clearly fucked up pokemon, and blatantly uncompetitive mechanics
what on earth is going on in the ou zeitgeist. has the smogon water supply had a massive contamination of copium?
edit: to make this a non-meme post, there is truth in my jest. i’ve been really disappointed with the community’s attitudes towards what is/is not too much for the tier, and the drift from “volatility is bad” to “tera is fun!” etc.
what on earth is going on in the ou zeitgeist. has the smogon water supply had a massive contamination of copium?
edit: to make this a non-meme post, there is truth in my jest. i’ve been really disappointed with the community’s attitudes towards what is/is not too much for the tier, and the drift from “volatility is bad” to “tera is fun!” etc.
You know, I was always on the side of keeping Tera legal because I thought it made the game more fun and interesting, and even though it had some broken stuff popping up, it was probably just a few crazy abusers of it and things would balance out once Home dropped and the really egregious stuff got banned.
It's been half a year now. Tera is not any less volatile and those ugly wrinkles I thought would smooth over are damn persistent. Mons are still being banned because Tera pushes them beyond the point of reason with Tera still being the sole or the biggest reason why. I think having to deal with Chien-Pao Banded Tera Dark Crunch again kinda brought me to this point.
So, uh, Pro-Tera gang, I'm jumping ship. Tell me why you're still on board for it, maybe I'm missing something. I just think being able to do this and sweep through the majority of my checks is disgusting:
Velguarder (Zamazenta-Crowned) @ Rusted Shield
Ability: Dauntless Shield
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Bash
- Body Press
- Tera Blast
- Iron Defense
im pro giving the team preview disclosure of Tera types a go.
At least you can start planning for sets during gameplay.
tera allows a lot of threats to have magearna-tier unpredictability of sets
and then you have mag herself with all her diversity, and then Tera unpredictability on top, that’s like the problem squared..
You convince me more with every post that Chestnaught really is God
I can't believe the filthy scrubs allowed it to drop to uu smh
This is not, has never been, and very likely will never be how banning moves works. If only one Pokemon has it, then that Pokemon gets banned, like Houndstone with Last Respects. If more than one Pokemon has it but only one is broken with it, the broken one gets banned. The move needs to be on multiple Pokemon and completely uncompetitive and unfair on all of them. Only Sneasler has Dire Claw, so it makes a lot more sense to just ban Sneasler.
after playing sneasler quite a lot and against it quite a lot, can confidently say that dire claw is cheesy, but not what makes her great.
if she gets banned it’ll be because of the whole package for sure. Sneasler isn’t really like cloyster in the sense that the unburden set can choose between straight KOing more threats like zapdos (gunk shot) or flipping a coin on crippling a check like landorus-t (dire claw).
cloyster has value added to it with kings rock, in addition to its max power STAB. The cost? The ability to use HDB or sash.
I don’t think dire claw being cheesy is relevant in the pivot/choice sets, as they’re less pressuring and explosive. It’s definitely for those situations when you’re facing a +2 Atk and +2 Spe threat without any priority moves that can KO it, or a specific counter like gholdengo/ghost garganacl/ Dozo/covert cloak enjoyer
the pivot sets have to deal with bulky variants of glowking, toxapex, gholdengo, ghost Garg, tusk, lando, etc. they also have to deal with lots of Pokémon’s coming in on an immunity and being able to deal with the other STAB if it stays in, thus forcing out the sneasler. Heck, the pivot set is checked by other sneasler….!
also: unburden sneasler needs 2 Pokémon, sneasler and the terrain setter, unless sneasler is going to run air balloon. So this means it’s easier to plan gameflow around it.
if it’s the air balloon set, you have completely new checks, like double status dragapult, most scarfers, anything that can OHKO and isn’t weak to STABs, and Pokémon’s in the speed tier higher than adamant sneasler, such as enamorus, roaring moon or valiant
it really seems like sneasler in Ubers is a coin toss , obviously no one can see the future so it’s yet to be determined if the checks it has can keep it tame after the first round of bans.
keep in mind that none of the radar threats: Mag, zamazenta, ursaluna, Volcarona, are particularly checking the unburden set unless they’re using Tera. CP & Urshifu check it if it’s within KO range of priority.
after the first round of bans, the viability of other priority users like kingambit, arcanine-h and dragonite is also likely to improve. We might even see more tank chomp, etc. all these will make it harder for a sneasler.
you’ll have everything that makes life for it slightly harder, from an uptick in tornadus (checks air balloon set) to baxcalibur (revenges with priority) to an increase in bulkier teams being viable.
the pivot set, and choice item sets are actually very fun. Itd be a shame if she’s banned.
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TL:DR because I know few people read that all:
- dire claw hasn’t broken pivot sneasler as it doesn’t apply intense pressure over a game (yet)
- unlike cloyster, direclaw hax isn’t additive for sneasler, it has to forego 50% more power with gunk shot
- the metagame will change soon, and there will be less pressure to deal with the big 5. None of the big 5 are counters or checks to +2 Spe/Atk sneasler unless they Tera or if it’s in range of priority . So it won’t improve for sneasler, it’ll get harder
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Surely the OU council has better horses!
Concretely, which Pokemon capable of resisting Tera Blast Ice can now fight better against Regieleki thanks to the nerf of its Electric moves?
Maybe after everything calms down, they might try a retest. Like they did with everything else they QB'd and retested last gen (see Cinderace and Melmetal). I don't see them unbanning it right away
I love watching the circular discourse around Covert Cloak, and people saying it's a bad item that only works on a handful of mons while I find decent success with it on bulky Dengo and defensive Gastro.
Anywho, council results some time this morning. Can't wait to see what happens.
Anywho, council results some time this morning. Can't wait to see what happens.
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I expect at least Pao, Crowned, and Mag to go at the very least.
I'm thinking Hero escapes the banhammer by a few votes
On Enamorus being completely budget Iron Valiant, you're underestimating how valuable a Ground immunity is to both teambuilding and switching Enamorus in:
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 236-278 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You mispredict on pivoting Enamorus in, at least she survives stuff from Ground-types.
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 264-312 (91.3 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
This is the riskier Ground-type to switch into, but at least you can make Lando-T quake a little.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur: 170-201 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur in Electric Terrain: 148-174 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 186-219 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
Baxcalibur was a decent Regieleki check, but this is starting to get into switch-in-twice territory.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra-Hisui: 106-126 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 38.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra-Hisui in Electric Terrain: 92-108 (25.3 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
OK, this one was terrible for Regieleki from the start. Goodra-H is even neutral to or resists all kinds of Tera Blasts to boot!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 151-178 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 131-154 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Now consider Dragonite slipping out of OHKO range when Multiscale is chipped off.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 149-176 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon in Electric Terrain: 129-153 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The Roaring Moon switch-in margins get more comfortable.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 165-194 (50.7 - 59.6%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Electric Terrain: 142-168 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(252 SpA Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regieleki: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
Hydreigon can now switch in just that little bit more often.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 346-408 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit in Electric Terrain: 300-354 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 313-370 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
(252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 322-381 (106.9 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
I don't like needing 4 KOed allies to OHKO Regieleki with Sucker Punch without Black Glasses, but dodging the OHKO entirely exactly once with the new Transistor is clutch.
...It's definitely looking possible that the nerf to Transistor reduces the need to switch in a Ground-type into Regieleki just enough.
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 236-278 (81.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You mispredict on pivoting Enamorus in, at least she survives stuff from Ground-types.
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Enamorus: 264-312 (91.3 - 107.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
This is the riskier Ground-type to switch into, but at least you can make Lando-T quake a little.
Which is why you don't lead with Samurott-H unless you really think the single layer of Spikes matters. And man have Spikes never felt weaker in OU right now. Samurott-H has a great defensive typing when it comes to partnering with Fairies or at least Enamorus, and I take advantage of that by having Samurott-H switch in on lured-in opportunities like Heatran, Slowking-G, Skeledirge, and Gholdengo. Unless Gholdengo is packing Focus Blast (or Thunderbolt) and getting the predict right, Samurott-H survives at least one hit from all of them and forces them out or blows them up (Heatran forces the Razor Shell). Unlike Greninja, Samurott-H gets actual strong priority and role compresses laying convenient entry hazards and forcing out Ghosts at the same time. I actually don't miss having a Stealth Rock setter when I have Samurott-H.
Let's see if it does so we can try Electric resists instead of immunities against Regieleki (note that Transistor uses the old multiplier and Electric Terrain simulates new Transistor):
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur: 170-201 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Baxcalibur in Electric Terrain: 148-174 (39.8 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(252 Atk Choice Band Baxcalibur Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 186-219 (61.7 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)
Baxcalibur was a decent Regieleki check, but this is starting to get into switch-in-twice territory.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra-Hisui: 106-126 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 38.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Goodra-Hisui in Electric Terrain: 92-108 (25.3 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
OK, this one was terrible for Regieleki from the start. Goodra-H is even neutral to or resists all kinds of Tera Blasts to boot!
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 151-178 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite in Electric Terrain: 131-154 (40.5 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Now consider Dragonite slipping out of OHKO range when Multiscale is chipped off.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon: 149-176 (42.4 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Roaring Moon in Electric Terrain: 129-153 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
The Roaring Moon switch-in margins get more comfortable.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 165-194 (50.7 - 59.6%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon in Electric Terrain: 142-168 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
(252 SpA Hydreigon Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Regieleki: 332-392 (110.2 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
Hydreigon can now switch in just that little bit more often.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Transistor Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit: 346-408 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Regieleki Thunderbolt vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Kingambit in Electric Terrain: 300-354 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 4 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 313-370 (103.9 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
(252+ Atk Black Glasses Supreme Overlord 2 allies fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Regieleki: 322-381 (106.9 - 126.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
I don't like needing 4 KOed allies to OHKO Regieleki with Sucker Punch without Black Glasses, but dodging the OHKO entirely exactly once with the new Transistor is clutch.
...It's definitely looking possible that the nerf to Transistor reduces the need to switch in a Ground-type into Regieleki just enough.
I forgot about unaware also ignoring stat drops. I haven't seen any Specs Mag though. Most of them try to cheese the win by running the Stored Power set.
But then Zamazenta can just slot in Stone Edge, which will mean any sort of chip (i.e. Entry Hazards, which you're taking damage from because you're giving up HDB to run Covert Cloak) will let Zamazenta beat Skeledirge (and if rocks are up Skeledirge can occasionally lose to Crunch Zamazenta anyway). And it's honestly not that bad a move on Zamazenta- yes, you lose hard to Gholdengo, but Gholdengo is widely used to check a slew of other threats isn't it?
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