Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

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You know its funny that :Tornadus-Therian: could be in the A ranks after the next VR update, as it is a pretty good Pokemon in the current meta. And yet, it seems usage wise people have not quite caught on to that as of yet as its only gotten 3% usage.

Typical ladder moment I guess
 
Your Hopes and Dreams said:
View attachment 575569
We're so back Chompbros
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In all honestly, wasn't surprising seeing it UUBL, would be surprising if instead was still UU even after it got Scale Shot back. Anyway, is still happy seeing an old OU staple returning in the tier
 
Holesum420 said:
I'm mixing up SS and SV now what's wrong with me.

Pex can whittle down the opposing team and have its teammates clean up for it while Glimmora just sets up rocks and dies.
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While it is true that Glimmora is mostly used to set up hazards as a suicide lead, it has some actual firepower in its arsenal. It is by no means a sitting duck and can definitely put some offensive pressure on the opponent.
 
BolTingBlazie said:
You know its funny that :Tornadus-Therian: could be in the A ranks after the next VR update, as it is a pretty good Pokemon in the current meta. And yet, it seems usage wise people have not quite caught on to that as of yet as its only gotten 3% usage.

Typical ladder moment I guess
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I think people are just afraid of having to rely on inaccurate STAB as your main source of damage when there's so much consistent power in OU already.

I know I've been let down by Hurricane on Zapdos and that guy has at least Discharge as a secondary means of STAB damage. I'll admit tho that Tornadus does have some appeal as a Knock/Regenerator pivot machine...
 
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Thoughts on some notable usage differences between November and December:
:Great Tusk: 29.659% -> 37.389%

Great Tusk sees a big rise in usage. With Gliscor no longer being in the tier, its much easier for Great Tusk to Spin and get hazards off + its not as easily worn down by them itself. I still am not the biggest Great Tusk fan personally due to how much it overlaps in terms of weaknesses with other mons like Ting-Lu and Pult, but its high usage is more than earned.

:Kingambit: 40.931% -> 35.855%

Midgambit's noticeable decline in usage makes sense. Bro ain't him anymore. Its much harder for Gambit to land those free sweeps like it did in prior metagames, esp with a much wider pool of Pokemon forcing it to Tera, which won't always be an option on the table. Getting KO'd by stray Low Kicks ain't fun. Even with Tera, the opponent having Zamazenta, ID Corv, or Moltres in the back make it harder to sweep. Tech like Mental Herb Tera Fire is cute, but comes with massive oppurtunity cost imo vs King's standard counterplay like Tusk. These days, I'm personally using King more as a check to Gholdengo and Pult than a wincon itself, which imo is a far healthier use of its talents.

:Dragapult: 19.201% -> 27.108%

Deadass, IDK what cause such a drastic increase in Pult usage. I'm guessing its ability to act as a form of speed control is in much higher demand in this economy, but I would have assumed Gliscor leaving would have been bad for it since Ting-Lu and friends have much higher usage.

:Garganacl: 3.879% -> 7.092%

Garg is back and better than ever. Gliscor's departure give a lot more room for our boy to run Lefties since Spikes aren't littered on the field as much & Garg fills quite a bit of the utilities Gliscor was known for, namely being a reliable status absorber and passive damage dealer. The defensive utilities Curse Garg brings to the table as a water-type are just way too good in general, being both a great Gholdengo and Dragapult switch-in. With nothing running cloak these days, I think Garg is in a great spot.
 
Magcargo said:
:Kingambit: 40.931% -> 35.855%

Midgambit's noticeable decline in usage makes sense. Bro ain't him anymore.
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The gambit switchup is crazy dawg ain't no way we went from "ban this mf" to "Oh nah he's washed, got that 0-0-0-0-0-28 record." Trust the process bro, gambit's on offseason yet he's STILL putting all time OU numbers, second only to prime tusk. I would post a "Stay on that side when gambit skyrockets back to kingdom" but that curses anything that's the subject of it. Anyways, I need to get back to cooking some OU shenanigans...
 
BolTingBlazie said:
You know its funny that :Tornadus-Therian: could be in the A ranks after the next VR update, as it is a pretty good Pokemon in the current meta. And yet, it seems usage wise people have not quite caught on to that as of yet as its only gotten 3% usage.

Typical ladder moment I guess
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| 45 | Tornadus-Therian | 7 | 2.61% | 14.29% |

It's not especially common in SCL either...

Torn-T's an okay mon, but you do have to find reasons to go out of your way to use it, it's just not the kind of thing you'd expect to hit high usage without Defog. For example, most people find it easier to use Zapdos as their bird and then pivot into progress makers like Samu-H (the duo of Zap + Samu on its own manages twice the usage of Torn-T).

Torn-T is just one of those mons that you're gonna see nommed on the VR a lot even when it has low usage, because the combination of Regen + Knock Off is bound to be really attractive to someone at some point.
 
yomaalt said:
| 20 | Landorus-Therian | 10.406% |

landorus-therHIM BEAT THE FUCKING ALLEGATIONS AGAIN RAHHHHHHHHH
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I mean without Gliscor in the tier he has a niche. Even if in most teams Tusks is usually a better choice.

Gambit still proving king, not even all the counterplay in the world can stop this man from terrorizing the tier. All teams have 3 to 6 gambit "checks" and he still pulling the numbers!
 
Magcargo said:
Thoughts on some notable usage differences between November and December:


:Kingambit: 40.931% -> 35.855%

Midgambit's noticeable decline in usage makes sense. Bro ain't him anymore. Its much harder for Gambit to land those free sweeps like it did in prior metagames, esp with a much wider pool of Pokemon forcing it to Tera, which won't always be an option on the table. Getting KO'd by stray Low Kicks ain't fun. Even with Tera, the opponent having Zamazenta, ID Corv, or Moltres in the back make it harder to sweep. Tech like Mental Herb Tera Fire is cute, but comes with massive oppurtunity cost imo vs King's standard counterplay like Tusk. These days, I'm personally using King more as a check to Gholdengo and Pult than a wincon itself, which imo is a far healthier use of its talents.
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The only reason I am still not getting folded by this mon is because I'm running a very specific team that has Grassy Seed Strength Sap Sinischa and Wisp Skeledirge and Garganacl juuuust in case. That's like 4 team slots dedicated to not lose to this (among other things like Valiant and Waterpon). No, this mon is still very much a problem you absolutely have to prepare for in the builder or you're bound to get reverse sweeped if not careful.

Magcargo said:
:Dragapult: 19.201% -> 27.108%

Deadass, IDK what cause such a drastic increase in Pult usage. I'm guessing its ability to act as a form of speed control is in much higher demand in this economy, but I would have assumed Gliscor leaving would have been bad for it since Ting-Lu and friends have much higher usage.
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Yeah, I have no idea what this is doing on ladder tbh? Sp. Def Garg sits on this thing all day and chips it, and the Hex variants can't really threathen Ghold either. Can someone shed some light into this? All I can think of is a means to revenge kill something low on HP

Magcargo said:
:Garganacl: 3.879% -> 7.092%

Garg is back and better than ever. Gliscor's departure give a lot more room for our boy to run Lefties since Spikes aren't littered on the field as much & Garg fills quite a bit of the utilities Gliscor was known for, namely being a reliable status absorber and passive damage dealer. The defensive utilities Curse Garg brings to the table as a water-type are just way too good in general, being both a great Gholdengo and Dragapult switch-in. With nothing running cloak these days, I think Garg is in a great spot.
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Agreed on this. I personally prefer Iron Defense Garg as you're just clicking Body Press for damage and Salt Cure for chip, plus Iron Defense Garg kinda counters non Tera Ghost Curse Garg because eventually you outspeed them and outdamage them yourself. I've used Water Tera a lot in the past, but the ubiquitousness of Waterpon and Rilla with their Grass STABS (and the dangerous Tera Grass Energy Ball Iron Moth) have made me pivot to Tera Poison instead to great results. A specially defensive build sits on all the ground moves in the tier after an Iron Defense in my experience and psychic is non existent as an attacking move (and the move I've seen, Psyshock, tickles even boosted). All in all, we are so Garganabackl.
 
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xavgb said:
| 45 | Tornadus-Therian | 7 | 2.61% | 14.29% |

It's not especially common in SCL either...

Torn-T's an okay mon, but you do have to find reasons to go out of your way to use it, it's just not the kind of thing you'd expect to hit high usage without Defog. For example, most people find it easier to use Zapdos as their bird and then pivot into progress makers like Samu-H (the duo of Zap + Samu on its own manages twice the usage of Torn-T).

Torn-T is just one of those mons that you're gonna see nommed on the VR a lot even when it has low usage, because the combination of Regen + Knock Off is bound to be really attractive to someone at some point.
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My point still stands that its definitely a very underrated and surprisingly effective choice in current ou. Regen + U-Turn + Knock is very effective in the meta.

Its funny though, because i'm pretty Knock off was a more important move for Tornadus-T than defog was, and yet people still think of it as a defog mon even though it tended to run knock off more due to the plethora of other foggers

Tornadus-T is a Mon I think just gets glossed over because people forgot it existed due to the fact it was kind of just meh without knock off for a while, which makes sense because knock off + Regen was its literal bread and butter
 
WOOOOO! SKELEDIRGE FANS RISE UP! MY FAVOURITE FIRE CROC IS OU AGAIN BABY!
Also UU players may be happy to lose this abomination.

| 1 | Great Tusk | 37.389% |
| 19 | Ting-Lu | 10.785% |
| 20 | Landorus-Therian | 10.406% |
| 35 | Garchomp | 5.232% |
Ground type mains rise up.

| 39 | Weavile | 4.423% |
Hold up, weavile was so close to rising to OU. This seems like one of the greatest comeback stories ever.
 
cartertben said:
WOOOOO! SKELEDIRGE FANS RISE UP! MY FAVOURITE FIRE CROC IS OU AGAIN BABY!
Also UU players may be happy to lose this abomination.
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Speaking for UU players no the fuck we aren't, that "abomination" was one of the best checks to annoying-ass cheese setup like Cress and Iron Hands (you an L). Can't wait for the collapse of society or the eventual quickban of Dogi, whichever comes first.
 
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cartertben said:
WOOOOO! SKELEDIRGE FANS RISE UP! MY FAVOURITE FIRE CROC IS OU AGAIN BABY!
Also UU players may be happy to lose this abomination.

| 1 | Great Tusk | 37.389% |
| 19 | Ting-Lu | 10.785% |
| 20 | Landorus-Therian | 10.406% |
| 35 | Garchomp | 5.232% |
Ground type mains rise up.

| 39 | Weavile | 4.423% |
Hold up, weavile was so close to rising to OU. This seems like one of the greatest comeback stories ever.
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Just wait till the mofo gets triple axel back in a couple weeks
 
DoofV3 said:
The only reason I am still not getting folded by this mon is because I'm running a very specific team that has Grassy Seed Strength Sap Sinischa and Wisp Skeledirge and Garganacl juuuust in case. That's like 4 team slots dedicated to not lose to this (among other things like Valiant and Waterpon). No, this mon is still very much a problem you absolutely have to prepare for in the builder or you're bound to get reverse sweeped if not careful.
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Name one OU Pokémon you don't have to prepare for in the builder or that you won't lose to by not preparing to. This applies to the entire top 10 if not 20 at the very least. Whether Kingambit is broken or not (it's so much less reliable than it was 3 months ago) "it's broken because you have to prepare for it" is not good reasoning
 
ianlazerbeem said:
Name one OU Pokémon you don't have to prepare for in the builder or that you won't lose to by not preparing to. This applies to the entire top 10 if not 20 at the very least. Whether Kingambit is broken or not (it's so much less reliable than it was 3 months ago) "it's broken because you have to prepare for it" is not good reasoning
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Let's put it this way. A lot of OU pokemon that you have to prepare for in the builder are pokemon that are prepared for by using pokemon in OU. Kingambit is different, as you have to go out of your way to put Kingambit checks on your team as opposed to something like garchomp where if you have a bulky core you're probably fine barring crits.
 
ianlazerbeem said:
Name one OU Pokémon you don't have to prepare for in the builder or that you won't lose to by not preparing to. This applies to the entire top 10 if not 20 at the very least. Whether Kingambit is broken or not (it's so much less reliable than it was 3 months ago) "it's broken because you have to prepare for it" is not good reasoning
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I'm not out here putting two encores mons, a zamazenta, focus blast dengo AND my own gambit just to beat smth like ting now am I? of course gambit has slowed down, but he still exudes a sort of pressure on the builder where anything less then two sturdy "checks" and one makeshift can and sooner or later WILL lose you a game. Most of these countermeasures also conveniently line up well against the rest of the metagame, so that allows some sort of breathing space, but if encore was an like, only 2 turn encore like before, then people would most likely have banned him by now.

"The most dangerous enemy is not the one who lingers behind you in the shadows, but the one who walks beside you as a friend. "
 
DoofV3 said:
Yeah, I have no idea what this is doing on ladder tbh? Sp. Def Garg sits on this thing all day and chips it, and the Hex variants can't really threathen Ghold either. Can someone shed some light into this? All I can think of is a means to revenge kill something low on HP
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I don’t have access to the data on specific sets that increased in use, but I would presume the improved viability of physical band sets and the resurgence of HDB+u turn instead of sub, contributed to overall increase in dragapult usage. It resisted sneasler STABs and hex did as much damage as meteor to Gliscor. It’s also a great anti-webs pick right now.

It’ll definitely mellow out as Pokemon such as Garganacl and skeledirge rise.
 
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