It’s nice to see everyone off garganacl suspect train. Yay!
we have bigger fish to fry tbh, Garganacl is extremely irrelevant atmIt’s nice to see everyone off garganacl suspect train. Yay!
gliscor is still ou-worthy. even without roost, it's healing 1/4 every 2 turns, which is nothing to sneeze at, and it gets both forms of spikes now. i still believe that we can get lando-t down to uu this gen if we really try
Gliscor
"We thought Landorus was dropping to UU lmao."
I say this with sincerity, I have never seen such a fall from grace. Not only did they nerf recovery moves, they removed Roost from Gliscor and attempted to substitute it with the empty promise of coverage. Nothing disappoints me more than a longstanding OU staple being disgraced by a receding movepool; it's effectively a worse Ting-Lu.
this is partially my thought on it too, but i can see light clay going because screens in general have been the driving force behind some really heinous shit this genTbh, surrounding the conversation of banning Aurora Veil or Light Clay. Isn't the whole big thing with banning moves/items that they have to prove to be broken on multiple users? I fail to see how either of these are broken on their own without Ninetales-A, it definitely just seems like it's ease of setting them as well as it's speed and utility covering as an insane setter.
I'm interested in seeing why we'd ban anything other than Ninetales-A (if we do look into veil in some way), other options just seem to me like an attempt to complex ban Ninetales because they like using it.
Respectfully, I dont know how you can argue Gliscor fell from grace and then say Rilla is back. Grassy Glide is severely nerfed and it isn't unnoticeable. It really shows and often forces it to tera to make up the difference. Still faces the same issues as last gen with hazards only much worse and it ooses badly to all manner of poison and flyer. Rilla is usable, but it's overall majorly underwhelming.
Rillaboom and Tornadus
"Aaannnddd we're back."
With the reintroduction of Knock Off and Grassy Glide, Rillaboom and Tornadus are back in OU. While they received some significant nerfs (Grassy Glide nerf and Defog loss), neither have been disqualified from OU and will continue to do well. I'm personally very excited to see both return to OU after being briefly dispatched to UU, and will be anticipating a lot of creative shenanigans thanks to Tera.
I hate to be on the side of partiality but I agree with this. Ninetales-Alola is supporting a heinous playstyle right now and it's really annoying. However, it's obvious we need to remove the broken abusers before we touch Nintales-Alola. Stuff like Baxcalibur, Hearthflame, and Manaphy need to go before we can think about putting dampers one screens because these three are the majority of the reason we're having this issue to begin with. I think it would be very foolish to put the cart before horse here.Tbh, surrounding the conversation of banning Aurora Veil or Light Clay. Isn't the whole big thing with banning moves/items that they have to prove to be broken on multiple users? I fail to see how either of these are broken on their own without Ninetales-A, it definitely just seems like it's ease of setting them as well as it's speed and utility covering as an insane setter.
I'm interested in seeing why we'd ban anything other than Ninetales-A (if we do look into veil in some way), other options just seem to me like an attempt to complex ban Ninetales because they like using it.
^This. A9T has done this in other versions with underwhelmingly mons. Deal with the other stuff and then visit light clay if need be.I hate to be on the side of partiality but I agree with this. Ninetales-Alola is supporting a heinous playstyle right now and it's really annoying. However, it's obvious we need to remove the broken abusers before we touch Nintales-Alola. Stuff like Baxcalibur, Hearthflame, and Manaphy need to go before we can think about putting dampers one screens because these three are the majority of the reason we're having this issue to begin with. I think it would be very foolish to put the cart before horse here.
Haven't play too many games but so far I really haven't found manaphy to be too OP, at least not yet. Tail glow isn't fast enough imo and easily revenge killed. Getting the free turn to setup is not the easiest from what ive seen from my opponents. Have not faced Take Heart but I think that one could be OP with Acid Armor to jack up stored power and Take Heart to get rid of status. Likely needs some time before a conclusion can be reached imo.I must admit to being baffled at this seemingly universal agreement that Manaphy is busted. How have the surroundings changed so much from gen 7 that it's now busted? It's a stall and balance breaker that struggles against offence and oh would you look at that, offence is king this generation. It's incredible on webs (everyone runs boots) and loves z-moves (lol).
Is it tera? Ah yes, finally it can tera out of its famously awful defensive typing: Pure water.
It's very good on screens. Every setup sweeper is good on screens. It's not like it hasn't existed alongside Alolatails before. If something has changed, it's not Manaphy, it's Alolatails. Snow boosting its defence, the complete lack of defog due to Gholdengo, hail not chipping your own team. If there's a problem, it's with Alolatails
I think that vanilla Ogerpon is very potentially underrated as long as you’re willing to commit to a team that can usually afford to Tera it. A passive +1 speed every time it comes in is SUPER strong and is really the selling point of base Ogerpon, not its free item slot. I think that you’d probably get the most use out of Choice Band on it since with Tera it gains nuclear strength and insane speed with no need for setup.she can hold an item!
…which is basically all she has going for her. i suppose you could use her as a spikes setter because defiant lets her punish defog, but she doesn't have a good matchup against literally any defogger. knock off + u-turn is neat, especially considering she's the only ogerpon form that can wear shoes (i guess the other masks are too big and get in the way?), so i could see use as a utility mon. problem is, her stat spread is built for offense, in which she's outclassed by… well, by three more of herself
So basically Gen 8 Rillaboom on crack?I think that vanilla Ogerpon is very potentially underrated as long as you’re willing to commit to a team that can usually afford to Tera it. A passive +1 speed every time it comes in is SUPER strong and is really the selling point of base Ogerpon, not its free item slot. I think that you’d probably get the most use out of Choice Band on it since with Tera it gains nuclear strength and insane speed with no need for setup.
oh gee, i wonder how the changes since gen 7 have benefited manaphy. could it be the extra boost that tera water grants it, especially under rain? or possibly the distinct lack of ferrothorn, one of its most splashable checks in the past? maybe because chansey and blissey are way harder to justify slotting onto a team? the existence of heavy-duty boots, which allow pelipper to come in much more easily to set up rain? the decreased viability of toxapex making it easier to swap out psychic for something like energy ball or rest? the nonexistence of mantine? the dexiting of some of its best revenge killers, such as tapu koko and kartana? oh, what could have possibly changed to push manaphy over the edge?How have the surroundings changed so much from gen 7 that it's now busted?
You know this does not happenthe existence of heavy-duty boots, which allow pelipper to come in much more easily to set up rain?
What the actual fuck is this sentence.Why should people who don't play or care about the metagame be allowed to vote by coasting off their innate skill?
you know what else doesn't happen? manaphy not getting banned. half its switch-ins are gone and the other half aren't really switch-ins. whenever the meta produces something to handle it, it'll just start running a new set with a tera type that lets it beat that tooYou know this does not happen
You know half of these are nonsense. Heavy duty boots Pelipper is a lol. Sun and snow are far better and more prevelant now than gen 7, interfering with rain. "It can tera into its own type" applies to literally every offensive mon. Mantine was a highly niche pick for defensive teams.oh gee, i wonder how the changes since gen 7 have benefited manaphy. could it be the extra boost that tera water grants it, especially under rain? or possibly the distinct lack of ferrothorn, one of its most splashable checks in the past? maybe because chansey and blissey are way harder to justify slotting onto a team? the existence of heavy-duty boots, which allow pelipper to come in much more easily to set up rain? the decreased viability of toxapex making it easier to swap out psychic for something like energy ball or rest? the nonexistence of mantine? the dexiting of some of its best revenge killers, such as tapu koko and kartana? oh, what could have possibly changed to push manaphy over the edge?
sure it isHeavy duty boots Pelipper is a lol.
yeah, and manaphy is still broken. hell, half the reason it's broken is because of how much more prevalent snow is; it can set up multiple times behind veil so easily that sets on veiltales teams can afford to run the wacky new take heart move over tail glowSun and snow are far better and more prevelant now than gen 7, interfering with rain.
and it didn't apply in gen 7. you asked what changed since gen 7 to break manaphy, tera's one of those things"It can tera into its own type" applies to literally every offensive mon.
which doesn't change the fact that it was undeniably one of manaphy's best answers. not as splashable as ferrothorn or mega latias, but there was virtually nothing manaphy could do against a well-played mantineMantine was a highly niche pick for defensive teams.
Yea, it's weird that this format already has a bit of a lame duck feel and it's only a couple days old. On that note, I am curious what the shortest between major additions to a format is. If memory serves Bank and Home went live a few months after Gens 6 and 8 so those are also probably short lived.All of this is reminding me that we're getting another 27 TMs in DLC2 alongside a bunch of new and returning lines, meaning that that we only have two-three months to sort all this chaos out before it all goes to hell again.
This isn't the argument you think it is. Last generation, Snow didn't exist; Hail did, and Hail offered zero defensive benefits for some solid abusers.Funny that people want Alolan ninetales gone when it wasn’t a problem last generation lol