Metagame SV Pokebilities AAA

[MothmansBf]

https://pokemondb.net/sprites

I use this site, find a sprite you like, right click the sprite you want and click copy image link. Then, here in Showdown it's on the third row thing on the top that has insert link, 2nd option image link, paste the link you copied and

Voila!


And regarding Incin, that's fascinating! I wonder how well it handles Meow without any physical investment, but a potential SpD mon that can handle Meow in a pinch and provide Knock support is really interesting. I also would 100% replace CC with Fake Out, since I run that on AV Iron Hands always and it puts in an insane amount of work (and you cripple any Heatran by just knocking it anyways), and likely would with Incin too.

Thank you for letting me know!

It handles Meow surprisingly well actually, it just sucks losing the AV into Choiced variants that guess your switch-in. I haven't experimented with Fake Out, but CC has done shockingly good work into mons like Garg that enable me to switch in a more powerful check on the Recover, and helps provide some chip on popular WBB mons that have already been knocked.

 

[MothmansBf]

What are yall using to check Lokix, every other battle I have is CB Lokix spam and even max def Pech is taking minimum half, I can't think of a single mon that can comfortably withstand SoR + Tinted Lens + CB First Impression or Knock. Max def Tusk is even taking 60% average.

 

[Ducky]

fluffy max def pech, physdef tusk, physdef intim/fluffy alo, physdef lando-t

Max def Tusk is even taking 60% average.

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk: 192-227 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
dont know where youre getting 60+ from

main thing with lokix is limiting switchin, you have to prioritize getting hazards up and cannot give it free turns.

 

[Pajoomas!]

Hit rank 1 again with a new team, so you know what time it is!View attachment 837067

ForrMeowtress Semi-Stall
https://pokepast.es/a7abbcc2dcd2aa1a

Slowking @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Chilly Reception
- Earthquake

Standard af Slowking set. EQ for DesoHeatran and Glowking. Shadow Shield Regen HDB is a busted combo for pivoting and threatening frail mons with super effective moves. It really does not get more basic than this.

Pecharunt @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Night Shade
- Toxic
- Recover

Team needed a proper ground resist, a way to block spin AND deal with Breloom. This Pecha set solves all of those problems. Sludge Bomb hits about as hard as Ligma Chain, while not having issues with PP, and Toxic is more reliable than Ligma in applying toxic. Night Shade I feel generally hits harder than SBall or Sludge Bomb. Makes Tusk and Treads users cry themselves to sleep.

Meowscarada @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Flower Trick
- U-turn
- Triple Axel

It's the cat. It hits hard. Adaptability over Long Reach because with our next party member, dodging Flame Body burns isn't as important. Adaptability over SoR because SoR immediately gives away your AAA, Adapt hits just about as hard (listen Meow has 0 bulk it ain't switching in on knocks), and ALSO doesn't have its damage reduced by opposing SoR.

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Heal Bell

Standard Unaware Bliss, Heal Bell is amazing support and it's our stonk setter.

Forretress @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Counter
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch
- Spikes

Good ol' Forre, the joys of role compression. Counter is a bit cheesey, but it threatens a LOT of mons that Body Press just couldn't, and threaten KOs against opposing setup mons if you keep your Sturdy intact.

Dondozo @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Wave Crash
- Curse
- Rest
- Body Press

This used to be ditto but it just wasn't reliable enough at taking care of certain threats. Dozo on the other hand serves as a good physical unaware wall, and... does what it does. Volt Absorb for a great immunity and screwing over Volt Switch mons, and making it so you reliably wall Hands. Could argue for either Ability Shield or HDB over Lefties, but I prefer leftovers.


Now, I know what you're all gonna say- HOLY SHIT VICE? IS THIS A TEAM OF YOURS? WITHOUT CORVIKNIGHT???? I know, I know, I truly have lost it, but it genuinely just didn't feel like it fit on the team. Defog is amazing, but this is a bit more of a hazard stack team that uses Meow to pressure enemy Corvs. Rapid Spin lets us keep hazards up while getting rid of our own, and Forre itself serves as a good enough Meow check, lessening the need for Corvi. It's also just nice to branch out from the Tier Queen once in a while.

Anywho, enough yapping from me! Hope you all enjoy the team :)​

Isn't Earth Eater strictly better than levitate?

 

[EtherealLouser]

First time doing a mini RMT-style post. Wanted to share a team that got me #4 on the ladder even though I'm kinda ass at the game: https://pokepast.es/e4e75010bbfdac9d

The main breaker of the team. DOOM music starts playing every time this thing hits the field because even resists hate taking this SFLO Bleakwind. However, the more I've used Torn, the more I've come to despise anything less than 100% accurate 'cuz your life depends on hitting multiple Bleakwinds and Focus Blasts sometimes. If you hate missing, like me, PrimSea (Weather Ball over Heat Wave) and No Guard (Hurricane over Bleakwind) are fine substitutes in testing, but the calcs from SFLO are sometimes too nice to pass up (ex. SFLO one-shotting Pecha with no plot).

The second breaker of the team when Torn doesn't feel like hitting its moves that game. Outside of Fluffy mons and bulk Ghosts, people seem to have forgotten how strong this dog is. This guy is nice speed control versus Offense structures and complements Torn quite well.

Really good hazard control for the team and a check to contact threats. Cloak allows you to block Garg and some Glimmora, crazily enough. Ting-Lu actually beats Hatt 1v1 because normally, Draining Kiss does too little and Ting-Lu is faster. Calm Mind allows you to properly 1v1 and beat Ting-Lu, and also serves as a win-con and stallbreaker. EVs in Speed allows you to outpace Pex and Garg.

Going a bit out of order here, but Corrosion Clod is a really nice progress maker and special wall, while also punishing brainless U-Turn spam with Poison Point (Corrosion makes Poison Point work on Steel-Types btw, it's pretty cool). Stops a lot of set-up too, discourages Corv from coming in to Defog the Rocks, and is the #1 Keldeo counter bar none. While it is really nice for the Stall matchup, this team already has a solid stall MU without, so you can try drop Corrosion for an immunity, namely Earth Eater to check other Rockers and Sandy Shocks, or Sap Sipper, because Wellspring is a headache.

Tried and true hazard remover and another physical check. Delta Stream makes the team not auto-lose to Mamoswine and other strong Ice and Rock types, like Cornerstone and CB Boulder.

This was put on the team last and was the mon that surprised me the most. Courtesy of user MothmansBF, this is the resident Fire, Psychic, and Ghost check (Hatt and Corv are fake Psychic resists in the face of Specs Lati) that also provides useful pivoting and Knock Off support. This guy is extra nice into opposing Corvs and Alo because it underspeeds them.


Hard Matchups for the team:

No WBB and PrimSea means Fires that can threaten Incin are pretty rough to switch into. Torn-T and Zama can outspeed and blow them up, so play aggressively, don't let them get free switches, and shuffle between immunities and Intimidate on Incin if they do. These never felt unplayable to win in testing, but PrimSea Torn can help with all of these bar Talonflame and Volc.

I despise this mon with a burning passion and personally, I think we should at least suspect test it. Regardless, Banded SoR Ceaseless Edge is pretty rough to switch into and sets hazards on Hatt, same counterplay for the fires though.

Another pokemon I despise as a concept, but thankfully is more manageable in this tier. Still, SD sets with PrimSea are rough to switch into, so keep Corv healthy to trade into it or burn Zama's Dauntless early.

 

[Velcroc]

Isn't Earth Eater strictly better than levitate?

Levitate avoids hazards, which is better vs spikes

 

[MothmansBf]

fluffy max def pech, physdef tusk, physdef intim/fluffy alo, physdef lando-t

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Lokix Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Great Tusk: 192-227 (44.2 - 52.3%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
dont know where youre getting 60+ from

main thing with lokix is limiting switchin, you have to prioritize getting hazards up and cannot give it free turns.

I run Water Absorb Tusk is where I got that from lol, I always have a hard time justifying Fluffy Tusk with all the Cinderace I see, but duly noted thank you!

View attachment 837741
First time doing a mini RMT-style post. Wanted to share a team that got me #4 on the ladder even though I'm kinda ass at the game: https://pokepast.es/e4e75010bbfdac9d
View attachment 837742The main breaker of the team. DOOM music starts playing every time this thing hits the field because even resists hate taking this SFLO Bleakwind. However, the more I've used Torn, the more I've come to despise anything less than 100% accurate 'cuz your life depends on hitting multiple Bleakwinds and Focus Blasts sometimes. If you hate missing, like me, PrimSea (Weather Ball over Heat Wave) and No Guard (Hurricane over Bleakwind) are fine substitutes in testing, but the calcs from SFLO are sometimes too nice to pass up (ex. SFLO one-shotting Pecha with no plot).
View attachment 837743The second breaker of the team when Torn doesn't feel like hitting its moves that game. Outside of Fluffy mons and bulk Ghosts, people seem to have forgotten how strong this dog is. This guy is nice speed control versus Offense structures and complements Torn quite well.
View attachment 837744Really good hazard control for the team and a check to contact threats. Cloak allows you to block Garg and some Glimmora, crazily enough. Ting-Lu actually beats Hatt 1v1 because normally, Draining Kiss does too little and Ting-Lu is faster. Calm Mind allows you to properly 1v1 and beat Ting-Lu, and also serves as a win-con and stallbreaker. EVs in Speed allows you to outpace Pex and Garg.
View attachment 837745Going a bit out of order here, but Corrosion Clod is a really nice progress maker and special wall, while also punishing brainless U-Turn spam with Poison Point (Corrosion makes Poison Point work on Steel-Types btw, it's pretty cool). Stops a lot of set-up too, discourages Corv from coming in to Defog the Rocks, and is the #1 Keldeo counter bar none. While it is really nice for the Stall matchup, this team already has a solid stall MU without, so you can try drop Corrosion for an immunity, namely Earth Eater to check other Rockers and Sandy Shocks, or Sap Sipper, because Wellspring is a headache.
View attachment 837746Tried and true hazard remover and another physical check. Delta Stream makes the team not auto-lose to Mamoswine and other strong Ice and Rock types, like Cornerstone and CB Boulder.
View attachment 837747This was put on the team last and was the mon that surprised me the most. Courtesy of user MothmansBF, this is the resident Fire, Psychic, and Ghost check (Hatt and Corv are fake Psychic resists in the face of Specs Lati) that also provides useful pivoting and Knock Off support. This guy is extra nice into opposing Corvs and Alo because it underspeeds them.


Hard Matchups for the team:
View attachment 837750View attachment 837752View attachment 837757View attachment 837761No WBB and PrimSea means Fires that can threaten Incin are pretty rough to switch into. Torn-T and Zama can outspeed and blow them up, so play aggressively, don't let them get free switches, and shuffle between immunities and Intimidate on Incin if they do. These never felt unplayable to win in testing, but PrimSea Torn can help with all of these bar Talonflame and Volc.
View attachment 837758I despise this mon with a burning passion and personally, I think we should at least suspect test it. Regardless, Banded SoR Ceaseless Edge is pretty rough to switch into and sets hazards on Hatt, same counterplay for the fires though.
View attachment 837763Another pokemon I despise as a concept, but thankfully is more manageable in this tier. Still, SD sets with PrimSea are rough to switch into, so keep Corv healthy to trade into it or burn Zama's Dauntless early.

Appreciate the shout-out for AV Incin, I'm glad it's done you so well! I personally run it alongside max def Water Absorb Tusk for the Hamu full counter, as well as being a decent soft check to Ace. It can even take a non-boosted BB from Talon if need be and land the knock!

 

[Ducky]

I run Water Absorb Tusk is where I got that from lol, I always have a hard time justifying Fluffy Tusk with all the Cinderace I see, but duly noted thank you

this isnt fluffy tusk. that was just 252hp 252def with a neutral nature. ive included the calc below with acutal max def tusk as a screenshot to clear up any confusion. fluffy tusk is a fine option but i agree that its not the best set for tusk

Calc

 

[MothmansBf]

this isnt fluffy tusk. that was just 252hp 252def with a neutral nature. ive included the calc below with acutal max def tusk as a screenshot to clear up any confusion. fluffy tusk is a fine option but i agree that its not the best set for tusk

Calc

View attachment 837824

I don't see where this accounts for Tinted Lens is the problem, I do run 40 Speed EVs for certain outspeeds and the rest in HP and Def with Impish, but next time I face a Lokix I can send either the replay or a screenshot where my Tusk takes upwards of 60% from a Knock/First Impression. It's very often I'm facing either SoR or Tough Claws Lokix and, since I don't usually run Fluffy on a Bug or Dark resist, I just get ran through by the cricket.

 

[Ducky]

I don't see where this accounts for Tinted Lens is the problem, I do run 40 Speed EVs for certain outspeeds and the rest in HP and Def with Impish, but next time I face a Lokix I can send either the replay or a screenshot where my Tusk takes upwards of 60% from a Knock/First Impression. It's very often I'm facing either SoR or Tough Claws Lokix and, since I don't usually run Fluffy on a Bug or Dark resist, I just get ran through by the cricket.

thats where the +2 is coming from on the calc

 

[sleepyfwog]

Due to tinted lens on Lokix you don’t need a fluffy Bug/Dark resist (it doesn’t help). Abuse the fact that it’s Stealth Rock weak and that it doesn’t have enough power to muscle through physical walls naturally (ie intimidate or fluffy or tablets) to wear it down quickly. Predicting Lokix is one of the easier things to do as being locked into First Impression is very undesirable and they often wish to click Knock Off to remove helmets to slow how fast it is worn down. If they do revenge a mon with first impression take advantage of the free turn you have to pressure your opponent heavily.

 

[IAMLEGENDhalo]

Lowkey Keldeo and Glimmora should be looked at. Feels like all the counters to them a very specific.

 

[Ducky]

Lowkey Keldeo and Glimmora should be looked at. Feels like all the counters to them a very specific.

Keldeo is definitely really strong, and Miss Crisis mentioned a potential suspect test for it coming soon in this post.

I'm not sure if I agree with you about Glimmora being broken, however. I think some of your issues might be coming from your team, as many viable pokemon are quite good into it. If you shared your team here, I'd be happy to take a look and help work through any problems you are having with it

 

[Bluear]

I've just found this a few days ago and I'm already loving it. It is hands down one of my favorite metas. Here's my team, keep in mind i'm not that great at regular smogon and I made this without knowing any of the meta for this om, this is meant for more fun then an actual meta team, but I still want to know how to improve it

Grassy Sand
​

Torterra @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Headlong Rush
- Wood Hammer
- Grassy Glide

With Grassy Surge Torterra becomes a side grade for Rillaboom. In exchange for losing a bit of attack u-turn and knock off, you get an amazing secondary STAB in ground, while also getting defensive moves like synthesis and leach seed. But let's be honest, the main appeal is shell smash, giving a very clear 'lights out' sweeper in the end game. I won't lie and pretend like Torterra is a critical part of my team, I am trying to make her work because I like her.

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Taunt

Just a Great general cheek to a lot of physical attackers in the meta. Sand stream gives much needed flexibility in
setting weather, defog is hazard control, while taunt stifles other defensive pokes (and sometimes catchs a setup
sweeper on the switch). Biggest problem is that Crov is a little passive, but his purpose is to come in take a hit,
maybe remove hazards then u-turn out


Tyranitar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Dragon Tail
Assault vest Tyranitar in sand eats up supereffective special STAB for breakfast, and regenerator allows him to take breakfast three meals a day. Non of this detracts form the fact that this is a flarkin' Tyranitar and he hits hard. I'm probably going to switch iron head for high horsepower.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Recover
- Earth Power
- Hydro Pump
Gastrodon cosplays as Clafaeyble with magic guard. But seriously, Gastrodon's native storm drain gives a much needed water immunity to deal with rain or PrimSea, while magic guard gives it the longevity. The best thing about this is that it also gets a native sandforce, making its earthpowers hit hard in sand while hydropump gets boosted in rain, to say nothing of getting a storm drain boost. I was thinking of giving it posion heal, but magic guard allows it to clown on Garg

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Seed Bomb
- Leech Seed
- Rock Tomb
- Mach Punch

Though technically not immune to sand, poison heal means it will heal in sand, and guts brings Looms attack to
Monstrous heights. Leach seed is generally annoying, mach punch is amazing priority, probably going to switch seed bomb
for bullet seed, and rock tomb for ariel ace.
Chandelure @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Shadow Ball
- Fire Blast
- Flamethrower

The mon I'm most proud of. Giving 145 SPA sand rush is just as scary as it sounds. It doesn't need any boosts, it just
drops most mons with a bit of chip. All of its native abilities are great too, infiltrator says flark you to subs,
flash fire give it an amazing fire immunity, and flame body allows it to punish u-turns with its 4X resist. It aslo
covers for Ttar and Corv by being immune to fire and fighting, and since booth set up sand Chandlure will almost always
outspeed and be able to threaten out the mon


The game plan is to wear the opponent down with passive damage while also hitting hard. There is only one mon on the
team that is not offensively treating, which is Crovikight. Besides that, every member has some form of longevity.
Doesn't using grassy go against this though? Mabye a little, but 1. Torterra ussly wont come out that offten, as you
want to preserve her for a late game sweep or revenge killing with priority 2. I like to think of it as sandstorm
negating the enemy form healing in grassy terrain 3. It increases your longviety too 4. Guts boosted grassy terrain
technician bullet seed.

Against offensive teams Tyranitar is your main sand setter and defesive backbone, Loom and Tortera should use their
priority to pick off non priority immune opponents, while sand rush Chandlure tears trough the rest of the team.
notable weakness include Wellspring.
Honestly i'm thinking of putting Synthesis or leach seed, maybe both on Torterra, while getting rid of wood hammer for seedbomb to give to some longevity. Any thoughts?

 

[IAMLEGENDhalo]

Keldeo is definitely really strong, and Miss Crisis mentioned a potential suspect test for it coming soon in this post.

I'm not sure if I agree with you about Glimmora being broken, however. I think some of your issues might be coming from your team, as many viable pokemon are quite good into it. If you shared your team here, I'd be happy to take a look and help work through any problems you are having with it

Been trying, Corvi, Slowking, Slowbro, Chomp, Ting-Lu, Alo, Hydregion, Goodra-Hisui, Regileki, Breloom, Hatterene, Heatran to handle Glimmora. Feels like nothing is capable of switching in and even the stuff that does 1v1 it gets significantly crippled in the process. Just the combo of being able to remove hazards, get up a bunch of hazards itself or poison anything is a bit much even before it gets to choose a new ability.

 

[Lavender Vice]

Been trying, Corvi, Slowking, Slowbro, Chomp, Ting-Lu, Alo, Hydregion, Goodra-Hisui, Regileki, Breloom, Hatterene, Heatran to handle Glimmora. Feels like nothing is capable of switching in and even the stuff that does 1v1 it gets significantly crippled in the process. Just the combo of being able to remove hazards, get up a bunch of hazards itself or poison anything is a bit much even before it gets to choose a new ability.

Plenty deals with Glimm though? Yeah, you might have to eat a toxic but it's not the end of the world, even on defensive mons. Can run Rain Dance on Alomomola to cure poison on it, Regen mons don't care much in general for toxic (not ideal but not nearly that bad), it's frail with an awful defensive typing, relatively slow, a lot of its moveslots are eaten up for hazards and mortal spin typically with weak STAB types. Purifying Salt is a niche but useable ability on certain mons as well.

Like how does Hoodra not just switch in, OHKO with Heavy Slam and then just... takes 6% a turn or whatever from Toxic. Remember, they're using an ENTIRE TEAM SLOT for what is essentially just a poison bot with hazards. That's a lot of investment for not that much of a benefit.

 

[GamebooAdvance]

Can I get any tips on how to deal with corvi? I feel like every single pokemon on my team has to run something to deal with one of the 500 different sets/abilities it can use. Wish I could just use magnezone honestly

 

[Lavender Vice]

Can I get any tips on how to deal with corvi? I feel like every single pokemon on my team has to run something to deal with one of the 500 different sets/abilities it can use. Wish I could just use magnezone honestly

Wearing it down, knock off, Stealth Rock, Corrosion poison or burn, wallbreakers that can tear through any of its sets like Mold Breaker Crawdaunt. Corvi is a very big multitool mon that has to handle a lot of threats, and it only has 8 Roosts to keep itself topped off. Quite a few mons, like Meow, can break through Corvi if it takes a decent bit of chip damage allowing it to not be able to reliably switch in without being 2HKO'd.

 

[MothmansBf]

Can I get any tips on how to deal with corvi? I feel like every single pokemon on my team has to run something to deal with one of the 500 different sets/abilities it can use. Wish I could just use magnezone honestly

Agreed on wishing we could use Magnezone. I definitely understand not being allowed to choose Magnet Pull for any Pokemon, but does anyone on current council know why it can't be used on native users of the ability? I feel like it really only helps Magnezone/Magneton, as I don't personally see Golem-A or Probopass being switched into any relevant Steel types, which to my knowledge the most prominent ones being Corv, Crown, Treads, and Heatran. As for Mag, I don't see it wanting to take the Crown FB, or the Heatran MS. I think it's obvious Mag would be running a Ground immunity that could invalidate Treads EQ, but save for Body Press it can't really threaten Treads for serious damage, especially not the popular AV Regen Treads I see. It'd make a fantastic check to Corv, basically forcing it to run VA and Body Press, or even forgoing min speed to pull off the fast U-Turn to escape. I don't personally find Corv to be problematic, but it's definitely incredibly vast in what roles in can play, and it very much is a guessing game trying to determine its ability depending on the team it's on. LV herself knows how applicable Corv is to virtually every single team you could make in this tier, while going relatively unchecked, as opposed to other walls in the tier that have obvious, exploitable, and plentiful weaknesses. Again I don't personally find Corv problematic, as I can usually surmise its ability based on the rest of the opponent's team, but I do think Magneton/zone would be an interesting addition to the tier. If there's an element I'm missing that makes Magnet Pull busted, please do let me know though! I do tend to miss some glaring issues when I suggest suspecting mons/abilities for a return lol.

Also, off topic related to Mag, is it possible to code mons such as Ninetales-A to not trigger Cloak in the Snow or would that not be considered seeing as how evasion abilities themselves aren't banned? Don't get me wrong I'm loving seeing Abomasnow, but with the (justified) banning of I-Val and Enamorus, Ninetales-A would be one of the last relatively fast Moonblast users with decent SpAtk. Ribombee is definitely fun with QD, but I feel like Webs support isn't as useful as Veil/Encore support for the common HO archetypes of the tier.

 

[Bluear]

Can I get any tips on how to deal with corvi? I feel like every single pokemon on my team has to run something to deal with one of the 500 different sets/abilities it can use. Wish I could just use magnezone honestly

For me crov is kind of passive. Rarely they run brave bird and even if it does it doesn't threaten Chandelure that much, so I can just shadow ball spam even if does have a fire immunity. Plus flame body can punish crov with a brun

 

[Lavender Vice]

Once again, you all know what time it is. Lost a good deal of elo tinkering, and climbed back up to #1 on ladder, therefore a new team to share!

Glimmora Treads Stall
https://pokepast.es/09a199756fc8fa81

Glimmora @ Black Sludge
Ability: Earth Eater
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Spiky Shield
- Mortal Spin
- Spikes

I have been... shockingly surprised by defensive Glimmora and how well it works. Combined with Treads rapid spin it actually very reliably removes hazards, and with Spiky Shield and Black Sludge it can stick around for a long time, especially when combined with wish support. Poison/Rock still isn't a great defensive typing, but it's pretty decent with Earth Eater at switching in, and having innate Corrosion Toxic lets it be a huge threat to mons like Corvi that want to come in and remove hazards. A semi-check to Meow (aka it isn't one shot and can poison it).

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Scald
- Flip Turn
- Wish
- Mirror Coat

Fluffy Mola. Mirror Coat instead of something like Tickle or Rain Dance because I find Mirror Coat gives Mola some really nice offensive pressure that the team can find itself lacking otherwise.

Scream Tail @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

I've dissed Scream a little in the past, but Unaware Scream really is an amazing wall. This is my standard set, you aren't doing fuckall with attacks anyways because of its awful offenses, and Roar helps rack up hazard damage.

Iron Treads @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 232 SpD / 24 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin
- Earthquake

I... ok, I am going to be honest, I DON'T like Treads, but before this team I HATED it. A little behind the scenes, when me and the rest of the council were doing the VR voting for all the mons I put Treads in C I hated it that much. But, using it on a proper team, where it can showcase its defensive prowess and role compression has really lightened my opinion of it (still not a huge fan but regardless). Takes special hits semi-well with its 'good enough' defensive typing considering the meta, can take a hit from Meow (speed is to outspeed Meow at +1), Knock + Rapid + Volt is AMAZING role compression, and against opposing ETerrain serves as a nice mixed wall since Quark boosts Defense still. It's pretty ok. I'd probably rate it like, B- or low B.

Skeledirge @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Encore
- Slack Off
- Hex

Skeledirge is another mon that continues to impress me, despite my first impressions. First off, Water Absorb makes it so it completely walls Keldeo which is AMAZING since this team REALLY struggles into it otherwise. Native Unaware as a ghost is also amazing role compression, as it lets it spin block while also being an unaware wall. Standard 4 moves, Encore over Wilo because Glimm is going to be poisoning most of the stuff on the field anyways and Encore can help cheese Gargs.

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform

yk, I'm still not super sold on this last slot. The other 5 form such a shockingly good core that all the team really struggles with, funnily enough despite the 2 unaware walls is opposing offense. Tried Craw, Meow, Talon and Lokix but none of them were really doing it and lacked the longevity (and also the opposing stall matchup was rough). With Ditto however, we form the evil essentially 3 regen core, while also threatening offense.​

So yeah! This team was an absolute treat to build and play. As you all can hopefully see, I'm trying to try out more Corvi-less teams, because I'm kinda bored of the bird and want to branch out more, and find ways to handle hazards without it. This team is a really strange mishmash of defensive mons I normally write off, but together they come together to form a nice little core. The team is NOT without its weaknesses though, Moth is a MASSIVE problem for it, and it still really struggles to withstand any wallbreakers that can tear through Mola. Garg is also VERY annoying for the team, but manageable if you play your cards right.

 

[Lavender Vice]

Agreed on wishing we could use Magnezone. I definitely understand not being allowed to choose Magnet Pull for any Pokemon, but does anyone on current council know why it can't be used on native users of the ability? I feel like it really only helps Magnezone/Magneton, as I don't personally see Golem-A or Probopass being switched into any relevant Steel types, which to my knowledge the most prominent ones being Corv, Crown, Treads, and Heatran. As for Mag, I don't see it wanting to take the Crown FB, or the Heatran MS. I think it's obvious Mag would be running a Ground immunity that could invalidate Treads EQ, but save for Body Press it can't really threaten Treads for serious damage, especially not the popular AV Regen Treads I see. It'd make a fantastic check to Corv, basically forcing it to run VA and Body Press, or even forgoing min speed to pull off the fast U-Turn to escape. I don't personally find Corv to be problematic, but it's definitely incredibly vast in what roles in can play, and it very much is a guessing game trying to determine its ability depending on the team it's on. LV herself knows how applicable Corv is to virtually every single team you could make in this tier, while going relatively unchecked, as opposed to other walls in the tier that have obvious, exploitable, and plentiful weaknesses. Again I don't personally find Corv problematic, as I can usually surmise its ability based on the rest of the opponent's team, but I do think Magneton/zone would be an interesting addition to the tier. If there's an element I'm missing that makes Magnet Pull busted, please do let me know though! I do tend to miss some glaring issues when I suggest suspecting mons/abilities for a return lol.

Also, off topic related to Mag, is it possible to code mons such as Ninetales-A to not trigger Cloak in the Snow or would that not be considered seeing as how evasion abilities themselves aren't banned? Don't get me wrong I'm loving seeing Abomasnow, but with the (justified) banning of I-Val and Enamorus, Ninetales-A would be one of the last relatively fast Moonblast users with decent SpAtk. Ribombee is definitely fun with QD, but I feel like Webs support isn't as useful as Veil/Encore support for the common HO archetypes of the tier.

Because it's unhealthy and leads to Steel types being actively detrimental to have on your team, and it's not like there aren't plenty of ways to deal with Steels in the tier as-is. Corvi REALLY isn't a big enough problem that we need to allow a mon that turns the best glue of the tier (and any steel types that aren't faster AND have a pivoting move) into a Pokemon that instead makes it so you're playing 5-6.

And saying it doesn't help Golem-A is just... wrong? Ground immune Golem-A one taps non Ground immune Heatran with EQ for example, one taps Corvi, rips apart things like Hoodra and Tinkaton and threatening a Custap Sturdy Galvanize Explosion making it so it can literally slaughter your steels and then take another sorry sap down with it.

Not to mention, lastly, having Magnet Pull in the tier makes DragSpam (which is ALREADY a solid archetype) into basically 'if you don't have a fairy type I auto-win the game' and that's just not balanced at all. I'm generally open to ideas, and trying out certain things that are banned just to see how things are with it in the tier, but not Magnet Pull. There's a reason trapping abilities are generally banned.

 

[MothmansBf]

Because it's unhealthy and leads to Steel types being actively detrimental to have on your team, and it's not like there aren't plenty of ways to deal with Steels in the tier as-is. Corvi REALLY isn't a big enough problem that we need to allow a mon that turns the best glue of the tier (and any steel types that aren't faster AND have a pivoting move) into a Pokemon that instead makes it so you're playing 5-6.

And saying it doesn't help Golem-A is just... wrong? Ground immune Golem-A one taps non Ground immune Heatran with EQ for example, one taps Corvi, rips apart things like Hoodra and Tinkaton and threatening a Custap Sturdy Galvanize Explosion making it so it can literally slaughter your steels and then take another sorry sap down with it.

Not to mention, lastly, having Magnet Pull in the tier makes DragSpam (which is ALREADY a solid archetype) into basically 'if you don't have a fairy type I auto-win the game' and that's just not balanced at all. I'm generally open to ideas, and trying out certain things that are banned just to see how things are with it in the tier, but not Magnet Pull. There's a reason trapping abilities are generally banned.

Very understandable, I can't say I've ever given Golem-A a second look past Custap Sturdy/Galvanize Explosion being fun cheese, I didn't even consider its own matchup into Heatran and Corv. I very much do wanna reiterate that I don't believe Corv is problematic in the slightest as well, just that it is by FAR the most common mon in the tier at 60% usage and that I personally believe it'd be healthy to have more concrete counter play into it, just like every other defensive mon in the tier has. We all know what Hoodra is running, Alo is almost always Fluffy or VA, Glowking tends to run ShSh, etc. Corv is much more of a matchup fish at some points, with skill and experience it's usually not difficult to tell what ability it will be, but it very evenly runs WBB, VA, Delta, Fluffy, Intim, and even WA, making it fairly difficult to break for less experienced/perceptive players. With what you've said tho I'm not gonna argue for Magnet Pull to be allowed natively, you definitely brought up some points I didn't consider, but I do think it lends itself to my question about Ninetales-A and the possibility of Snow Cloak being disabled in some way. I know it'd set new precedent, but I do genuinely feel like the tier is sore for more Fairy type variety with the lack of I-Val, Clef, Enam, and Azu.

While I'm definitely not advocating for the unbanning of those guys, I think the tier lacks the support and unique offensive pressure offered by the missing Fairies that could be somewhat remedied by the precense of Ninetales-A. It's no I-Val, but it most definitely has the traits to check, counter, or at least do well in the meta in a healthy manner IMO. Defensive Tales has the ability to, maybe not counter, but very well check the most powerful offensive mon in the tier, Meowscarada. It eats everything but Flower Trick from CB SoR and threatens the OHKO from uninvested Blizzard, it outspeeds and OHKOs the popular Scaleshot Chomp, shuts down the everpresent Tusk, checks Hamu, Lando, Hydrapple, soft checks offensive Torn, speed creeps Keldeo and OHKO's (if offensive) with Moonblast, and even aids in the new threat of Breloom, courtesy of yourself lol.

I could easily see it running both supprtive or offensive sets, stuff like SFLO Blizzard/Moonblast/FreezeDry would go crazy even off of 81 SpAtk, with Dark Pulse/Extrasensory/Hex/Weather Ball for opposing weather to put paws on some other staple walls like Glowking, Pech, and T-Tar. I'm sure I'm yelling into the void with here with trying to get this thing looked at due to its native ability interactions, but I truly do believe it deserves to be looked at, along with possibly even the other mons that would be at worst decent without their banned abilities, such as previously mentioned Golem-A, Mag, and decent tanks like the Weezings.

 

[Lavender Vice]

Very understandable, I can't say I've ever given Golem-A a second look past Custap Sturdy/Galvanize Explosion being fun cheese, I didn't even consider its own matchup into Heatran and Corv. I very much do wanna reiterate that I don't believe Corv is problematic in the slightest as well, just that it is by FAR the most common mon in the tier at 60% usage and that I personally believe it'd be healthy to have more concrete counter play into it, just like every other defensive mon in the tier has. We all know what Hoodra is running, Alo is almost always Fluffy or VA, Glowking tends to run ShSh, etc. Corv is much more of a matchup fish at some points, with skill and experience it's usually not difficult to tell what ability it will be, but it very evenly runs WBB, VA, Delta, Fluffy, Intim, and even WA, making it fairly difficult to break for less experienced/perceptive players. With what you've said tho I'm not gonna argue for Magnet Pull to be allowed natively, you definitely brought up some points I didn't consider, but I do think it lends itself to my question about Ninetales-A and the possibility of Snow Cloak being disabled in some way. I know it'd set new precedent, but I do genuinely feel like the tier is sore for more Fairy type variety with the lack of I-Val, Clef, Enam, and Azu.

While I'm definitely not advocating for the unbanning of those guys, I think the tier lacks the support and unique offensive pressure offered by the missing Fairies that could be somewhat remedied by the precense of Ninetales-A. It's no I-Val, but it most definitely has the traits to check, counter, or at least do well in the meta in a healthy manner IMO. Defensive Tales has the ability to, maybe not counter, but very well check the most powerful offensive mon in the tier, Meowscarada. It eats everything but Flower Trick from CB SoR and threatens the OHKO from uninvested Blizzard, it outspeeds and OHKOs the popular Scaleshot Chomp, shuts down the everpresent Tusk, checks Hamu, Lando, Hydrapple, soft checks offensive Torn, speed creeps Keldeo and OHKO's (if offensive) with Moonblast, and even aids in the new threat of Breloom, courtesy of yourself lol.

I could easily see it running both supprtive or offensive sets, stuff like SFLO Blizzard/Moonblast/FreezeDry would go crazy even off of 81 SpAtk, with Dark Pulse/Extrasensory/Hex/Weather Ball for opposing weather to put paws on some other staple walls like Glowking, Pech, and T-Tar. I'm sure I'm yelling into the void with here with trying to get this thing looked at due to its native ability interactions, but I truly do believe it deserves to be looked at, along with possibly even the other mons that would be at worst decent without their banned abilities, such as previously mentioned Golem-A, Mag, and decent tanks like the Weezings.

The issue with allowing Ninetales-A with the exception of having it so Snow Cloak isn't allowed leads to a WHOLE other can of worms of native ability interactions and allowing mons with synergistic/'problematic' natives with complex changes to the entire metagame.

For example, do we allow Excadrill but make it so it only has Sand Rush instead of both Sand Force and Sand Rush? Do we allow Dragonite but without Multiscale? Arcanine-Hisui without Rock Head? How far with these complex bans are we willing to go until we completely detach from the Pokebilities aspect of the metagame?

It's a slippery slope that Alolan-Ninetales, frankly, isn't worth the trouble allowing in the tier to deal with.

 

[EtherealLouser]

I very much do wanna reiterate that I don't believe Corv is problematic in the slightest as well, just that it is by FAR the most common mon in the tier at 60% usage and that I personally believe it'd be healthy to have more concrete counter play into it, just like every other defensive mon in the tier has. We all know what Hoodra is running, Alo is almost always Fluffy or VA, Glowking tends to run ShSh, etc. Corv is much more of a matchup fish at some points, with skill and experience it's usually not difficult to tell what ability it will be, but it very evenly runs WBB, VA, Delta, Fluffy, Intim, and even WA, making it fairly difficult to break for less experienced/perceptive players.

The reason why Corvi is the most used mon in the tier is because of the fact it's super splashable with its ability choice AND fulfills a very crucial niche: hazard control (look at all the other Defoggers, the next best is fucking Scizor and Weak Armor Mandibuzz). Look at almost meta even outside of OM's and you'll see 1 or 2 pokemon that stand peerless in usage because they fulfill crucial roles the best (ex. Gen 7 Lando, Gen 9 Great Tusk even). It's good to have defensive mons be centralizing because defensive mons are your team's backbone; they make the team work. Like many other top 1 usage mons like the aforementioned, Corvi has plenty of concrete counterplay other than just blowing it up. If you could blow up Corvi with an offensive threat at a whim, or use it to set up with any random sweeper to set up and win, I promise you this tier would see 10x less play.

The actual counterplay to Corviknight is long-term playing; this is something any team can do, if built right. Regen Corvi is shit (don't use it), so unless it Roosts, it's not healing. This is especially true if it's a Phys Def variant because those Corvis are often the team's Knock-Off absorber, so game to game, it's not gonna have an item. Thus, take advantage of this lack of passive recovery through Rocks, and especially Rocky Helmet. Rock Helmety, and Rough Skin on a native mon like Garchomp, is the #1 counterplay to Corvi because Corvi's method to avoid being passive and giving free turns, U-turn, is weak and makes contact. Corviknight is certainly bulky, but it's not bulky enough to withstand the tier's numerous breakers if it has to constantly come in, take Rocks and sometimes Helmet chip, before Roosting off the damage. Corvi only has 8 Roosts and each time it tries to Roost or Defog your rocks, you get an easy switch into another strong mon to punish whatever passive decision it made.

Again, Corvi's "matchup fishy" elements are defensive: it's not like Corvi's going to deal that much damage, it just means that sometimes your breaker is not as effective as you wish. Due to the nature of AAA, you inherently cannot rely on just one mon to make progress, you need multiple members or your whole team to contribute. Ex. Ogerpon-Wellspring may thud in WA Corv but that means that the Corv is not running Fluffy; Wellspring can Knock and U-turn on it so that a, for example, SoR CB Zama in the back can click CC without fear of chip later, knowing it 2h-KOs the bird.