Would this include banning Dynamic Punch, because that's Machamp's only claim to fame, and I'd be sad to steal it from him.
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SwagPlay, evaluating potential bans (basic definition of "uncompetitive" in OP)
- Thread starter haunter
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Chatter could be a bit different because it actually does damage... hmm. Might take some judgment calls. It does seem a bit silly to specifically make an exception for the move that has the same "broken" effect but also does damage.
But yeah there's no sense in a complex ban when there's no reason not to simply ban Swagger (and Confuse Ray, and Flatter...) or when Prankster is just a way of using the same strategy more easily.
Will there be any repercussions if we only ban Swagger or Prankster+Swagger for now and keep confusion "on watch"? I very much doubt people will successfully abuse Confuse Ray and the like, and outright banning Confusion could be "harmful" for any future suspect discussions.
Fucking finally, this thread is here. The amount of happiness and poetic justice I am feeling cannot be described in words.
Seriously, I'd much rather have MKang, MGar and MLuke and Genesect around than have Swagplay. Heck, I'd rather have Arceus. I'd rather need to predict when they switch in and KO them, rather than need to fight against the confusion hax while he hides behind a substitute, no doubt snickering like an asshole.
I'm for banning Swagger, Confuse Ray and Flatter. Basically, BAN CONFUSION.
Seriously, I'd much rather have MKang, MGar and MLuke and Genesect around than have Swagplay. Heck, I'd rather have Arceus. I'd rather need to predict when they switch in and KO them, rather than need to fight against the confusion hax while he hides behind a substitute, no doubt snickering like an asshole.
I'm for banning Swagger, Confuse Ray and Flatter. Basically, BAN CONFUSION.
Prevents Toxic, WoW on physical sweepers as well. It's worked pretty well for me.
Still fail to see how SwagPlay is uncounterable. I've been doing it since the metagame started.
Also, to the idiots(I don't even care anymore, these people are actual full retards) posting battle replays of swagplay beating UBERS teams.
OF COURSE IT KILLS ALL THE UBERS. It's UBERS. Their attack stats are so bloody sky-high that Foul Play even without the boost is going to tear them apart. My god, I can't believe that's actually being used as evidence for why it should be banned.
Subject 18, would you kindly give a valid reason for hiding my post other than foul language or telling people to get better at the game.
Calm_Mind_Latias Chesnaught
Prankster Swagger is the problem, the other modes of confusion are fine. The problem with Prankster Swagger is that it is transcending speed tiers in addition to boosting the damage output of the recoil it causes (as well as foul play). Combine that with the free turns it can generate by spamming priority substitutes and you have the problem we have now.
And remember kiddos:
Prankster Swagger is the problem, the other modes of confusion are fine. The problem with Prankster Swagger is that it is transcending speed tiers in addition to boosting the damage output of the recoil it causes (as well as foul play). Combine that with the free turns it can generate by spamming priority substitutes and you have the problem we have now.
And remember kiddos:
Yes, but that could lead to future bans of anyone who is an idiot. And eventually anyone who says something idiotic. Finally, anyone who is perceived to be idiotic but is just being sarcastic.
This could be workable. Most importantly, I'm starting to feel like stuff like Chatter and Dynamic Punch lead to a weird situation of figuring out where to draw the line if we tried to throw in stuff like Confuse Ray and Supersonic.
You don't need luck to counter it. You need a viable counter.
But the troll looks hungry!Calm_Mind_Latias Chesnaught
Prankster Swagger is the problem, the other modes of confusion are fine. The problem with Prankster Swagger is that it is transcending speed tiers in addition to boosting the damage output of the recoil it causes (as well as foul play). Combine that with the free turns it can generate by spamming priority substitutes and you have the problem we have now.
And remember kiddos:
Anyway, to all the people asking why we need confusion, I'll ask, why do we need to get rid of it?
Look, I dislike the Slippery Slope fallacy as well. But I'm not saying gay marriage leads to turtle marriage, I'm saying if enough people are making logic-based arguments around banning an ability or an entire game mechanic, they can make an equally logic-based argument against further mechanics. Courts use precedents for a reason.
Name one. Name something viable that beats SwagPlay 100% of the time and doesn't weigh your team down when you aren't facing it.
Thundurus-I.
I like the idea of one Prankster + Swagger + Foul Play user per team.
It is fairly easy to counter a given SwagPlay user such as Klefki or Liepard, but it is much harder to counter an entire team against them. I used a SwagPlay Klefki once, and it is not broken individually, and it can be played around as bulky Ground types really frustrate it.
It is fairly easy to counter a given SwagPlay user such as Klefki or Liepard, but it is much harder to counter an entire team against them. I used a SwagPlay Klefki once, and it is not broken individually, and it can be played around as bulky Ground types really frustrate it.
Guys like these are just trolling. They just want to see the pokemon world burn with all these excessive bans and they get a kick out of it too knowing that they helped banned something makes them feel good. Its illogical judging. The TC should feel guilty for even thinking about creating this thread.
Got me there, I probably should have worded that differently. But not every team runs Thundurus-I, and that being one of the only viable counters doesn't really work in its favor.
That isn't going to happen. Its too complex of a ban and is probably difficult to implement anyway. Just banning prankster + swagger is the best option if there were to be a ban. It eliminates pretty much all of the problems with swag play but doesn't entirely take away the use of it, because you could still use it without prankster. The problem with swag play is prankster. Without priority, it is very easy to get around.
I vote NO BAN. Good players should always build teams that take into account the different strategies other players will use and will throw at them. This is one of them, similar to Volturn. Both are annoying strategies but can be dealt with. Having a cleric or a ground type is a very good counter to it. The SwagPlay teams are not threatening to a team, like a Mega Lucario who can set up and destroy teams. My point is that there are very strong PokeMon in OU, like a Mega Pinsir and just like you would plan to counter the Pokemon you should plan to counter the strategy. The problem with Mega Luc was that imo even if you planned for the Pokemon, it would still with a few setups destroy whatever counter you had for it. SwagPlay, however, is much easier to counter. I also think that things that are simply annoying should not be a criteria for banning a strategy. Stall is very annoying but we won't just go around banning recovery moves. Luck has also always been a part of the game, getting a burn from a FlameBody is luck just like SwagPlay is.
Hi. I assure you, I hate seeing any bans for anything that actually adds to the metagame unless 100% necessary. Confusion does not add jack shit to the metagame.
Why are people still listing all these random 'counters' lol. Again, it's not about whether it's beatable or counterable.
Does swagplay reduce the game to a dice roll each turn? Yes or No?
Is a dice roll desirable for a competitive rule set? Yes or No?
The answer the to first question is yes. What has to be determined is whether as a collective people have a problem or not with the second one. Do you wanna play random.org/dice or not?
Yes = No ban.
No = Ban.
Simple.
Does swagplay reduce the game to a dice roll each turn? Yes or No?
Is a dice roll desirable for a competitive rule set? Yes or No?
The answer the to first question is yes. What has to be determined is whether as a collective people have a problem or not with the second one. Do you wanna play random.org/dice or not?
Yes = No ban.
No = Ban.
Simple.
This. If you absolutely HAVE to ban something, ban Swagger+Prankster
All but one way of dealing with it requires you to have the proper conditions up ahead of time, or be in at the same time. That is not a counter. The only one you have mentioned that is a counter is Safeguard. You can't swap whism into a swagplay mon without risking confusion and to which the game becomes a 50-50. I am sorry, but I will not respond to you again unless you actually bring something logic to the table. If not, I wish you a good day sir.
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