You have got to be kidding. Guys, stop saying Gliscor counters things when it doesn't! Scor has 125 base Defense, he is worse than Hippowdon or Skarm against this guy. Damn Gliscor fanboys. Try to at least make an effort to look things up first.
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Terrakion
- Thread starter Ditto
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How many attack EVs does it take to OHKO Terakion with EQ?
252 with no previous damage doesn't guarantee it. LO will most likely be present though, and possibly SR damage too, and if LO alone is then there's a 93% chance to KO.
Problem is you can't withstand 2 hits from a +2 Terakion anyway, so you really need to OHKO, which is only possible with near max attack and LO damage, and this damages Gliscor's viability VS other things.
And then if you do get to near max atk, you can't take a single hit from Terakion for certain.
EDIT: After some EV optimising, Gliscor with 184HP/188Atk/136Def and Bold, can OHKO 4HP Terakion with EQ after LO and SR damage, for certain. It also avoids ever being OHKOd by Jolly LO Terakion at +2, though if SR is on your side you will need to Protect for a turn to get back to full health to be able to take the attack for sure, risking another SD if your opponent knows this too. This is the best Gliscor is gonna get against Terakion.
Actually, I'm not just "making it up". Hippowdon may have better defense but he doesn't resist close combat. Also, hippowdon has 3 weaknesses, whereas gliscor only has 2, so IMO he's a better candidate for a team. Also, hippowdon isn't immune to earthquake, so he can't switch in as easily as gliscor can.
Gliscor doesn't resist Stone Edge. Come on. Scor resists CC, Hippo resists Stone Edge, figure it out. Hippo is better against it. Also, 1 less weakness is not a reason to use something over another. If that was the case, Sableye would be the greatest wall ever.
I didn't say he resists stone edge. I said he resists close combat, which he does! If I ever said in any of my posts that he resists stone edge, it was a mistake and I meant to say close combat. Also, is terakion still able to 2HKO him if he's poisoned??
I can see right now how the battle would play out.
Turn 1-Terakion uses swords dance, while you switch in gliscor.
Turn 2-Terakion uses stone edge, while gliscor poisons you.
Turn 3-Terakion uses stone edge, but fails to get the 2HKO. In the meantime, you roost up and continue to stall until he dies. Game Over.
Wow, that would be nice if it really didn't 2HKO
It doesn't 2HKO. Poison status prevents that.
True, but SE is less accurate, and less powerful, which means Hippo is still greatly threatened by CC. However, a 252/220 spread survives CC and easily OHKOs back with EQ due to the Def drop. Hippo and Gliscor can both deal with it, though since Gliscor needs SR for the KO, it's probably a slightly worse counter to it. Neither can beat Balloon Terakion though, so Goruugu is the way to go if they become popular.
Why the hell would Gliscor try to Poison Terakion when it has a SE attack and can barely withstand a hit from it in order to OHKO? If you'd looked at my last post you'd know that there is no way for a Gliscor to survive 2 SEs from Terakion.
EDIT: Bold 252/252 Gliscor with Poison Heal takes 73.7-86.7% from +2 LO Jolly SE. Even if you then Protect for 2 turns of recovery, you recover 25%, and are at at most 48.7%. How this aims to beat Terakion I do not know.
Sorry to seem rude, but if you're going to think up a strategy to beat something as powerful as Tera it seems prudent to do calcs beforehand.
Look at the damage calculations (by Mario With Lasers). According to the calculations, stone edge from a JOLLY terakion does less than half to it.
Those calcs didn't account for a +2 you dumbass
Quite. You switch in as it gets a SD in, and it promptly 2HKOs you as all you do is Poison it, whether delayed by Protect or not. I more clearly defined my own calcs so as not to confuse people, anyway.
So the way I see it, Gliscor vs:
Sword Dance Tera: Gliscor loses
Rock Polish Tera: Gliscor wins
Double Dance Tera: 50/50 depending on which boost is used on the switch
Scarf Tera: Gliscor wins
Band Tera: Gliscor wins
So it seems it largely depends on the set more than anything. Looking on PO usage stats Rock Polish is currently the most popular set, followed by Double Dance. So it Gliscor is really more of a check than a counter.
Also, can a Adamant 252 +0 Roopushin OHKO with Mach Punch with Lefties?
Sword Dance Tera: Gliscor loses
Rock Polish Tera: Gliscor wins
Double Dance Tera: 50/50 depending on which boost is used on the switch
Scarf Tera: Gliscor wins
Band Tera: Gliscor wins
So it seems it largely depends on the set more than anything. Looking on PO usage stats Rock Polish is currently the most popular set, followed by Double Dance. So it Gliscor is really more of a check than a counter.
Also, can a Adamant 252 +0 Roopushin OHKO with Mach Punch with Lefties?
Well, Gliscor can beat any Terakion if you specialise it to do so, but you lose utility countering more important things (Dory). I think the EVing is so specific and the KOs so close that really most "yes Tera wins" matchups come down to luck as to whether you live one attack, if running a standard Gliscor. You also won't quite be able to OHKO back, but will deal crippling damage so it can only attack once more due to LO.
Roobushin does 51-61% with Lefties Mach Punch, so it can only deal with it if Guts is active (77-91%) and some residual damage has been done. It is also utterly OHKOd by CC.
? He is using a Roost Gliscor in this situation
Is it me or is this guy a lot harder to use than his stats make it seem? In theory this guy seems like an effortless sweeper, and when one is out on the opposing team I know its going to be dealing heavy chunks of damage. Yet when I have tried try him out I find him relatively ineffective. I don't think its the offense thats the problem due to the damage output, its more the defensive side thats really lacking.
His weakness', most prominent being fighting, ground and water, make him really hard to find ways to switch in and set up, as most walls in this meta carry at least one of these attacks, and as he is not immune to any status, he even fears switching into blissey. I find that to offset these weakness' he generally has to either come in after something is dead, lead or rely on his bulk to take one super effective hit before doing his business.
In saying that I find the most troublesome set to come up against is the scarf one, as he has the potential to revenge very effectively. Has anyone tried to use substitute on the swords dance set? In theory It sounds good, being able to scout the switch for priority users, taking out a chunk before having to switch.
His weakness', most prominent being fighting, ground and water, make him really hard to find ways to switch in and set up, as most walls in this meta carry at least one of these attacks, and as he is not immune to any status, he even fears switching into blissey. I find that to offset these weakness' he generally has to either come in after something is dead, lead or rely on his bulk to take one super effective hit before doing his business.
In saying that I find the most troublesome set to come up against is the scarf one, as he has the potential to revenge very effectively. Has anyone tried to use substitute on the swords dance set? In theory It sounds good, being able to scout the switch for priority users, taking out a chunk before having to switch.
After listening to the smogcast I was inspired to try CB terakion (thanks jabba) and I can safely say that it's an absolute monster. With team preview you can predict their initial switchin/resist to your STABs (mainly close combat though), and once that's eliminated, spam CC and do massive amounts of damage to everything. Try it out.
Yeah, his weaknesses really keep him in check. However he does have some useful resists, in Fire, Rock and Bug primarily, giving him some switchin opportunities. U-Turning to him seems an excellent option as well due to how easily he forces switches. Exploiting the Fire resist may be easiest with use of a Forretress or similar Bug/Steel? It requires a bit of team coordination to assist him though, he's definitely not a throw-on-a-team sweeper.
Sub, swords dance, sacred sword and rock slide, jolly with lefties.
Sub on the switch, SD and sweep. Works for me.
Sub on the switch, SD and sweep. Works for me.
Ah yes, I think that's exactly what the issue was. I figured with his stat layout I could just put him in a spare spot on the team and let him do his magic. His fire resist does seem good, especially if he has a sandstorm boost though I'd say a poke using fire as a coverage move will generally have something else to hit him super effectively with as well, just for the mind games.
True, but that trollish base speed allows you to threaten most dragons or TTar who commonly run Fire coverage, and if you have Sub you can simply scout for either a switch or another attack if they feel lucky. A lot of times this attack will be EQ too, so using balloon could help you out there.
I think a bug/steel partner may be ideal for him as they resist many of his weaknesses and lure Fire, whilst also learning U-Turn/Volt Change to get him in safely.
the bigger problem against these two pokes is that they can easily Burn you with Boiling Water/WoW wich makes setting up on them less then ideal.
Those are just examples. There are a lot of weak special attackers you can set up on, especially in the Sand. Sometimes, even strong special attackers can't do too much damage to him, like Heatran or Ulgamoth. He can be about as hard to take down as Ttar, really.
Yeah, and he doesn't even need sand to take decent hits. With his 91/90/90 defenses, he's not frail by any sense of the word. He requires proper team support, however. I use him in coordination with Burungeru and Zapdos and a Dragon, and as soon as the oppertunity arrives for him to switch in and set up, it's game over for the opponent if they can't outright resist or outspeed Terakion.