Already edited it, but I guess I didn't make it in time lol.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
The Best and Worst Boss Fights in Pokemon
- Thread starter Yung Dramps
- Start date
I'll put aside my hatred of certain leaders for now, but I honestly really like both Viola and Grant from X/Y and would put Viola among the best first gyms in the franchise. I look at first gyms as a type advantage lesson, and Viola serves as a method to teach people to look past certain type advantage to others. Surskit gives her neutrality to Fire, but then gives her a crippling weakness to Electric and Flying also hits it. If she was a bit later I'd say she should have a Dwebble like Burgh to make things more difficult for Flying types, but it's a great first gym anyways.
I'll give less detail on Grant, but I appreciate how he uses both fossils and how Tyrunt gives neutrality to a bunch of Rock weaknesses and Amaura screws over the Grass type even with its ridiculous weaknesses. If he was a bit later I'd add a Solrock or Lunatone to help against Fighting types, but for a second gym I like it a lot.
I'll give less detail on Grant, but I appreciate how he uses both fossils and how Tyrunt gives neutrality to a bunch of Rock weaknesses and Amaura screws over the Grass type even with its ridiculous weaknesses. If he was a bit later I'd add a Solrock or Lunatone to help against Fighting types, but for a second gym I like it a lot.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
I have to be honest, I don't see the hype at all for Grant. Two first-stage fossils would be fine for like, Level 15, but at Level 25? Ain't a good look. Admittedly my memory of playing through Y is kinda hazyish but I don't recall a particular struggle, all the guy's really got going for him is a deceptively strong Take Down from Amaura. If he had a third mon he would be cool, but in his current state he's just really meh to me. More than anything the fact people praise him this often is just a sad commentary on the rest of XY's boss design Viola not withstanding.
I'll acknowledge that I might be grading Grant on a curve, considering he's not the past embodiment of "Geodude Onix unique Pokémon" like the other Rock type gyms are. Of the others I'd probably give Ramos a little more credit if he'd had a Lombre or Ludicolo for Ice/Fire pokes, but for whatever reason GameFreak seemed allergic to letting the gym leaders have more than 3. For her part Olivia's trial in Ultra Sun/Moon isn't bad either except for the lack of a Steel type counter.
Truth be told, his gym is a great gym overall, which gives him cool points.
Instead of endless hordes of Geodude and Onix, the trainers got Relicanth, Dwebble, Rhyhorn, Solrock and Lunatone. That's a lot better in terms of both representation and difficulty.
Then Grant himself shows up with two fossils that honestly ain't that bad. I'm not sure if it'd be ok to give him an Aerodactyl at this point in the game, but maybe if the moveset was kept in check, it'd be fine.
Grant's gym as a whole is a much more refreshing experience compared to all other Rock-type gyms. In fact, there isn't a single Geodude in it. That gives him a lot of points in my book.
So i saw this thread and i'm very interested. I read through and while this might be nostalgia talking, i was surprised i never saw anyone mention this guy.
This fight always gets me hyped. Everything from the atmosphere, to the music, to the battle itself, is frankly awesome. After an entire game of Blue being one step ahead of you at all times, you and him are about to have your final showdown for the title of Pokemon League Champion, and in my opinion he's no pushover either. Blue has a very strong and well balanced team that not only has some hard hitters like his Alakazam, but throws a bunch of other tactics at you that don't always involve brute force such as screens, sleep, intimidate spam, and weather (although exactly which ones he uses and to what extent will depend on your starter since his team varies) to keep you on your toes. It's a fairly challenging fight as far as Pokemon games go in my opinion, but it never really gets overbearing, and that feeling when you beat him and take that Champion title away from him just feels so good.
If that wasn't enough, his rematch team ups the ante, replacing two of his imo weaker team members (Pidgeot and Rhydon) with Heracross and Tyranitar, and gives the team members that stay significantly better movesets without sacrificing any of the versatility he had in the first fight.
Note how i specified FRLG's version of blue here, i think the fight in the remake is significantly better than the fight in the original, where a good amount of Blue's movesets were frankly really bad. While there are still a few questionable things in the remake like Dragon Rage Gyarados, at least all of his pokemon pose some kind of a threat in the remakes. The RBY fight also doesn't have a lot of the interesting tactics FRLG blue has.
So, what do all of you think? Is FRLG blue as good as i think he is, or am i getting blinded by nostalgia here?
EDIT: OH, while i'm here, i wanted to add a Gen 1 fight that i don't like.
I don't know about you guys, but i honestly think Misty feels straight up unfair in both the original and the remakes. The reasoning is pretty simple: the game is throwing something at the player that's WAYYYYY too strong for them to reasonably deal with at that point, to the point where the game's intended "counterplay" of catching a grass-type on the routes above cerulean can end up being ineffective because of just how ridiculous her Starmie is by the standards of being the second gym in the game. As far as i can tell the best way to beat her is to either pick Bulbasaur or get the Magikarp from the Magikarp salesman and evolve it, otherwise it's a massive pain.
This fight always gets me hyped. Everything from the atmosphere, to the music, to the battle itself, is frankly awesome. After an entire game of Blue being one step ahead of you at all times, you and him are about to have your final showdown for the title of Pokemon League Champion, and in my opinion he's no pushover either. Blue has a very strong and well balanced team that not only has some hard hitters like his Alakazam, but throws a bunch of other tactics at you that don't always involve brute force such as screens, sleep, intimidate spam, and weather (although exactly which ones he uses and to what extent will depend on your starter since his team varies) to keep you on your toes. It's a fairly challenging fight as far as Pokemon games go in my opinion, but it never really gets overbearing, and that feeling when you beat him and take that Champion title away from him just feels so good.
If that wasn't enough, his rematch team ups the ante, replacing two of his imo weaker team members (Pidgeot and Rhydon) with Heracross and Tyranitar, and gives the team members that stay significantly better movesets without sacrificing any of the versatility he had in the first fight.
Note how i specified FRLG's version of blue here, i think the fight in the remake is significantly better than the fight in the original, where a good amount of Blue's movesets were frankly really bad. While there are still a few questionable things in the remake like Dragon Rage Gyarados, at least all of his pokemon pose some kind of a threat in the remakes. The RBY fight also doesn't have a lot of the interesting tactics FRLG blue has.
So, what do all of you think? Is FRLG blue as good as i think he is, or am i getting blinded by nostalgia here?
EDIT: OH, while i'm here, i wanted to add a Gen 1 fight that i don't like.
I don't know about you guys, but i honestly think Misty feels straight up unfair in both the original and the remakes. The reasoning is pretty simple: the game is throwing something at the player that's WAYYYYY too strong for them to reasonably deal with at that point, to the point where the game's intended "counterplay" of catching a grass-type on the routes above cerulean can end up being ineffective because of just how ridiculous her Starmie is by the standards of being the second gym in the game. As far as i can tell the best way to beat her is to either pick Bulbasaur or get the Magikarp from the Magikarp salesman and evolve it, otherwise it's a massive pain.
Last edited:
What a coincidence, I beat her with Mega Punch Wartortle yesterday on Blue.
I dunno, there's plenty of counterplay.
She's tough on a neutral matchup because nothing really wants to get hit by Starmie's Bubblebeam, but between being able to either get a Grass-type, go for a war of attrition with Wartortle or Seismic Toss Kadabra, or try to zap it with Pikachu before it can get overwhelmed, Misty only requires a bit of planning.
Or skip as far ahead as the S.S. Anne and then go back.
I don't think the Grass-types are particularly effective honestly, they get completely and utterly outmatched by Misty's Starmie statwise and neither of them learn a decent BP Grass-type move around the time you'd be fighting misty, Oddish is stuck with Absorb. Wartortle should work out nicely though.What a coincidence, I beat her with Mega Punch Wartortle yesterday on Blue.
I dunno, there's plenty of counterplay.
She's tough on a neutral matchup because nothing really wants to get hit by Starmie's Bubblebeam, but between being able to either get a Grass-type, go for a war of attrition with Wartortle or Seismic Toss Kadabra, or try to zap it with Pikachu before it can get overwhelmed, Misty only requires a bit of planning.
I agree at Blue being a pretty solid fight. Even team, fine move selection (though RB Blue has the advantage on Blastoise, which has Blizzard), good selection of pokemon. I think his high levels relative to what your levels are do a lot of the heavy lifting, however.
That and I think that FRLG benefits from what RB suffers from: innate system stuff. His team obviously wasn't made with all stuff like abilities in mind and its 90% benefits
contrast with RB, where 90% of pokemon suffer from abysmal move pools even before accounting for questionable moveset decisions the trainers themselves have (why did they not give Rhydon rock slide or earthquake??).
I'm still floored that Let's Go gave Starmie scald, though. Like wow. Talk about an upgrade.
That and I think that FRLG benefits from what RB suffers from: innate system stuff. His team obviously wasn't made with all stuff like abilities in mind and its 90% benefits
contrast with RB, where 90% of pokemon suffer from abysmal move pools even before accounting for questionable moveset decisions the trainers themselves have (why did they not give Rhydon rock slide or earthquake??).
Starmie's a definite threat I don't think they thought much about but resisting the water attacks goes a long way and they purposely shy away from having it throw out actual psychic attacks.
I'm still floored that Let's Go gave Starmie scald, though. Like wow. Talk about an upgrade.
You get both Poison Powder if you want raw damage per turn or Sleep Powder to ensure that you don't lose. Absorb's draining effect also helps with tanking Starmie's Tackles.
Also, since Starmie is at lv. 21, you can have a Gloom since Oddish evolves at that level and still be on par with Misty. But even if you don't, that's still a very good matchup.
Bellsprout is on an even better situation with Vine Whip and the ability to stall with Wrap+Poison Powder.
Wait, what?
Yo, I thought Let's Go was the kiddie casual game, how come they just sic Scald Starmie on the player like that?
It looks scary on paper, until you remind you basically have a legendary as Starter, Pikachu sporting 120 base speed and +2 priority autocrit electric attack, and Eevee being bulky enough to tank a hit and delete back with its own Zippy Zap..Wait, what?
Yo, I thought Let's Go was the kiddie casual game, how come they just sic Scald Starmie on the player like that?
Let's go significantly improved no movesets and roster on most "bosses" (even though some only have 3 attacks), BUT, the player also has access to significantly stronger options. (and that's not even mentioning candies)
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Let's Go gym leader design is underrated. I made a more detailed post about it a while back, but the gist of it is that even sticking to the OG 151 they made some great changes to the used Pokemon to add much more variety to encounters and represent more Pokemon of the leaders' respective types that no other remake in this series can match the scope of. And while I didn't discuss movesets in that post those ain't too shabby either, with some cool stuff like the aforementioned Scald Starmie, every one of Lt. Surge' Pokemon having Thunderbolt and Koga using Toxic + Protect on 3/4 of his Pokemon.
Jerry the great
Banned deucer.
Misty is worse in the remakes for one simple reason: Recover. Now she can heal her starmie all she wants!
How I usually beat is like this: If I play with Charmander, get me a gyarados or raticate. They'll have better stats than much other stuff. You can use charmelon and teach it mega punch for staryu, then have gyarados or raticate take care of Starmie. With the other 2, I have my starter take out staryu no sweat, then my team gangs up on starmie.
Word of advice though. Although you can fight Misty before even going on nugget bridge, I recommend you don't. I recommend you at least find your way to Bill first before bothering with Misty. Or if you are really scared, take care of every trainer you can possibly fight before being able to use cut outside of battle. Obviously, a level advantage means more opportunities to build your movesets, get stronger Pokemon (like gyarados) and more.
How I usually beat is like this: If I play with Charmander, get me a gyarados or raticate. They'll have better stats than much other stuff. You can use charmelon and teach it mega punch for staryu, then have gyarados or raticate take care of Starmie. With the other 2, I have my starter take out staryu no sweat, then my team gangs up on starmie.
Word of advice though. Although you can fight Misty before even going on nugget bridge, I recommend you don't. I recommend you at least find your way to Bill first before bothering with Misty. Or if you are really scared, take care of every trainer you can possibly fight before being able to use cut outside of battle. Obviously, a level advantage means more opportunities to build your movesets, get stronger Pokemon (like gyarados) and more.
Last edited:
I must say I've got a soft spot for many of Sinnoh's Gym Leaders. These games aren't afraid to let trainers encounter late-game Pokémon in the early Gyms. For instance, Gardenia, only the second Gym, has a Roserade as her ace. You're up against Mismagius in the third Gym in Platinum (or Lucario in DP, not a slouch either). Contrast the second Gyms in the Unova games, with the awesome aces Watchog and Whirlipede, respectively. Granted, Burgh has his Leavanny, but it is only the fully evolved form of an early-route Bug after all. In RSE, Brawly's ace is Makuhita, hardly anything to strike terror in the hearts of trainers. By pulling out a third-stage evolution as early as the second Gym, Gardenia certainly made her battle memorable. And to lower the threat to manageable levels, its moveset was kind of gimped. Grass Knot, Poison Sting, Magical Leaf, and Stun Spore isn't that difficult to manage. Great design!
Granted, some Sinnoh gyms are duds too. Floatzel is hardly awe-inspiring for Crasher Wake, but Sinnoh is kinda lacking on fully-evolved, native Water-types. The alternatives would have been Bibarel, Gastrodon, or Lumineon, end of list (Though, with Gardenia having a Turtwig, they might have given him Empoleon). Byron is a bit of a dud too (Bastiodon was never a threatening Pokémon), Roark walks into the Geodude-Onix-Ace trap with both feet, and half of Volkner's team is neither Electric nor impressive in DP. Giving him an Electivire in Platinum was a nice touch, however.
Hm, come to think of it, maybe part of the reason why I like those Sinnoh Gym Leaders is that they feature the new evolutions of previous-gen Pokémon. Roserade, Mismagius, Froslass, and Electivire (Ambipom in DP). It's a good way to showcase the new evolutions and also make it feel like you're overcoming a really powerful trainer at the same time. Too bad cross-gen evolutions have faltered a lot in recent generations.
Granted, some Sinnoh gyms are duds too. Floatzel is hardly awe-inspiring for Crasher Wake, but Sinnoh is kinda lacking on fully-evolved, native Water-types. The alternatives would have been Bibarel, Gastrodon, or Lumineon, end of list (Though, with Gardenia having a Turtwig, they might have given him Empoleon). Byron is a bit of a dud too (Bastiodon was never a threatening Pokémon), Roark walks into the Geodude-Onix-Ace trap with both feet, and half of Volkner's team is neither Electric nor impressive in DP. Giving him an Electivire in Platinum was a nice touch, however.
Hm, come to think of it, maybe part of the reason why I like those Sinnoh Gym Leaders is that they feature the new evolutions of previous-gen Pokémon. Roserade, Mismagius, Froslass, and Electivire (Ambipom in DP). It's a good way to showcase the new evolutions and also make it feel like you're overcoming a really powerful trainer at the same time. Too bad cross-gen evolutions have faltered a lot in recent generations.
To expand on this (and maybe also on Molk's point of Blue being a good battle), I like what they did with the rematches and the bonus boss battles:
Brock: It's essentially his GSC team except replaced Rhyhorn with an Aerodactyl to keep with his sudden focus on fossil Pokemon.
Misty: Interesting thing here is that, whenever they expand on Misty's team in other games they usually give her a Lapras. But this time they gave her a Dewgong, probably because a batch of trainers use Lapras while not that use Dewgong. Getting a Gyarados and Vaporeon are obvious inclusions (even though it wasn't till now she was given a Vaporeon).
Lt. Surge: Another GSC team but replacing the extra Electrode he had with a Jolteon.
Erika: A surprising addition is Parasect, though with no Bug expert I guess it shouldn't be as its an easy place to put it. She also gets Exeggutor which is less surprising.
Koga: Kind of funny. He adds a Tentacruel which he never used before in the games BUT he did in the Adventure manga.
Sabrina: Honestly the most interesting change with Sabrina was done with her initial team be replacing the random Venomoth with a more appropriate Jynx. Her rematch team only adds a Hypno.
Blaine: Misty got Vaporeon, Lt. Surge got Jolteon, what do you think Blaine got?
Archer: Taking a quick swerve here, it was a surprise to see them adding Archer into the narrative, and he shockingly has a better team here then he did in GSC! He starts out with just a Weezing and Golbat, but second battle (which is a double with a grunt) he adds an Electrode and his third battle adds a Magmar (personally would have made it an Arcanine to more reference his Houndoom but whatever). Still, it's not that bad team and puts his GSC team to shame (FUN FACT: His second battle in Let's Go had him nearly on equal level with his GSC team, his third having his team being nearly 20+ levels).
Elite Four: It's neat how they Elite Four got Alolan Pokemon as an addition to their team. While Bruno getting Alolan Golem is a bit of a stretch, the others make sense (and whatever gets the serious Lance to having to use an Alolan Exeggutor is okay in my book).
Red: Now usually they give Red all the Kanto Starters, but now that they added Green to the games they have a trio of trainers to spread the Starters to so this time Red only gets (Mega) Venusaur. They replaced his Charizard with Arcanine (which is usually associated with Blue but there's a reason why it was given to Red) and, since he has Lapras for a Water-type, was given a Machamp instead of a Blastoise. Personally would have given him Alakazam in reference to him having an Espeon in the original GSC, but I guess Alakazam is also an iconic member of Blue's team.
Blue: So normally Blue is given a Gyarados, Exeggutor, and an Arcanine; the Pokemon he uses as replacements for the Kanto Starters he doesn't have in the original games and later on whenever they gave Red all the Kanto Starters. But this time Blue was given Charizard thus why Red was given Arcanine. Another notable change was Blue usually used a Pidgeot but that was made into Trace's ace, so they replaced it with a Tauros. Why Tauros you may be wonder? Because I think its a reference to the dummy out Professor Oak battle where he essentially used Blue's team + a Tauros!
Green: So the theme of Green's team is Blastoise and then any other Pokemon that Red & Blue didn't get. It's not much of a restriction of course and there's other choices they made that could be related to Red & Blue. With Blastoise being her Water-type she also does have a Fire- and Grass-type: Ninetales and Victreebel. And with Red having Machamp and Blue having Alakazam, Green was also given a trade evo in Gengar. That just leaves two extra which were Clefairy and Kangaskhan for whatever reason.
Well that's because they based its moveset on the TM that Gardenia gave out (Grass Knot) and what level-up moves it (and Roselia) would have at Level 22: Absorb, Growth, Poison Sting, Stun Spore, Mega Drain, Leech Seed, Magical Leaf, & Grass Whistle.
I think Green got Kangaskhan because the boys have their own single staged (makes iffy hand motions on snorlax) pure normal type. Clefable...honestly I think she just got that because she's a Girl so she needs a Girly pokemon and they probably cared enough about her to give her the superior Clefable instead of Wigglytuff.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Something interesting about Red, Blue and Green in Let's Go to me at first were their starter choices. It seemed like they almost had the exact opposites of what they are usually portrayed with, especially in the case of the two boys: Red with Venusaur instead of Charizard, Blue with Charizard instead of Blastoise and Green with Blastoise instead of Venusaur. Weird, right? Well recently I happened to discover that these were actually the three characters' starter choices in Pokemon Adventures! I have no idea if this was intentional or not but if so that's a really nifty easter egg IMO.
They have those starters because they match their games & names in Japan.
Blue is green in japan, so he gets Venusaur. Green is blue in japan, so she gets Blastoise. It matches the manga because the manga did the same thing.
Honestly TPCi shoudl have asked GameFreak to swap their starters for the international versions but it is what it is.
e: Did you know they did that? Like once, ever, in gen 2 there's a fisherman who has 3 pokemon and the joke is they all have "king" in their names in Japan. The localizer noticed this and also noticed we happened to have 3 pokemon with "king" in their name, and asked to have them changed. iirc this change was reverted in the remakes.
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Thanks for the history/localization lesson! Yeah like R_N said probably woulda been a good idea to change their signature starters for the Americas.Also some hella old Ken art.
Hol up.
Red gets Venusaur, Blue gets Charizard and Green gets Blastoise?
That's a manga reference! These are the starters they got in Adventures!
Jerry the great
Banned deucer.
Hello! Today, I will bring up my favorite and least favorite electric gym leader battle! Wanna know what's odd though? My least favorite electric gym leader is my favorite of them all otherwise, and my least favorite electric gym leader otherwise has my favorite battle of all electric gym leaders!
#1 best: Elesa (BW1). I don't like the concept of models at all to be honest. But regardless of that, I don't really hate her as a character, just what she is and stuff. Regardless of all that nonsense... She provides the PERFECT battle for me. You know how back when I described Sabrina how I like it when you got to do more than just your typical ways to win? This one also does it well. I personally hate battles that you can just switch a lot to win. But this boss makings switching VERY dangerous! She spams volt switch like a madman! So good luck switching much safely! Oh? Ground types like Drilbur and Palpitoad you say? Ohohoho! Maybe that means you can absorb volt switch, but what about the Emolgas aerial ace and them being part flying?! That also makes it unsafe for a grass type, who normally resists any kind of stab electric types throw at it! And sure, boldore exists, and sure it can make it past the emolgas. But what about that Zebstrika and it's double kick?! Not to mention it'll just get worn out by a constant barrage of volt switch as it isn't as fast as emolga is, and not being faster than emolga means you aren't faster than Zebstrika! Oh yeah, that volt switch also makes it unsafe for you to spam items too! Not only does it let them switch like crazy, but it has more power than many moves at that point of the game! So I hope you bring MANY and I mean MANY healing items! Oh yeah! No revives at this point of the game either! At least I think there isn't, but I cannot remember. But even if there is, those are very expensive and only revive half your HP! So, how do you stop this team? Well, Herdier can work wonders. It has the bulk to take a hit, and if you let a teammate die before it comes in, it can unleash a devastating retaliate. Boldore, as I already said, works wonders with beating Emolga. It can take advantage of their rock weakness, has great bulk for that point of the game, and gets rock stab. Overall, I like this battle quite a lot.
#1 worst: Lt.Surge (RBY). It's too bad though. Character wise, this is honestly not only my favorite electric gym leader, but one of my favorite characters in ALL of Pokemon. Too bad he isn't so awesome in battle. There is WAY too many ways you can beat this. Any grass type does wonders, and should you have a ground type like Diglett (who is RIGHT NEXT TO HIS GYM) or Nidoking, you instantly win. And only his Raichu has the devastating thunderbolt! The other two resort to growl, sonicboom, and thunder shock! Oh! So scary! And even though Surge has the scary, big bad thunderbolt at only the third gym, that aspect gets completely ruined by two things: One, due to gen 1 AI, he at times may use thunder shock instead! Two, ground types!
And hello! Welcome to the buff the weak boss show! Hosted by Jerry! Today, we will look at Lt.Surge! Here is how he can be improved!
#1 best: Elesa (BW1). I don't like the concept of models at all to be honest. But regardless of that, I don't really hate her as a character, just what she is and stuff. Regardless of all that nonsense... She provides the PERFECT battle for me. You know how back when I described Sabrina how I like it when you got to do more than just your typical ways to win? This one also does it well. I personally hate battles that you can just switch a lot to win. But this boss makings switching VERY dangerous! She spams volt switch like a madman! So good luck switching much safely! Oh? Ground types like Drilbur and Palpitoad you say? Ohohoho! Maybe that means you can absorb volt switch, but what about the Emolgas aerial ace and them being part flying?! That also makes it unsafe for a grass type, who normally resists any kind of stab electric types throw at it! And sure, boldore exists, and sure it can make it past the emolgas. But what about that Zebstrika and it's double kick?! Not to mention it'll just get worn out by a constant barrage of volt switch as it isn't as fast as emolga is, and not being faster than emolga means you aren't faster than Zebstrika! Oh yeah, that volt switch also makes it unsafe for you to spam items too! Not only does it let them switch like crazy, but it has more power than many moves at that point of the game! So I hope you bring MANY and I mean MANY healing items! Oh yeah! No revives at this point of the game either! At least I think there isn't, but I cannot remember. But even if there is, those are very expensive and only revive half your HP! So, how do you stop this team? Well, Herdier can work wonders. It has the bulk to take a hit, and if you let a teammate die before it comes in, it can unleash a devastating retaliate. Boldore, as I already said, works wonders with beating Emolga. It can take advantage of their rock weakness, has great bulk for that point of the game, and gets rock stab. Overall, I like this battle quite a lot.
#1 worst: Lt.Surge (RBY). It's too bad though. Character wise, this is honestly not only my favorite electric gym leader, but one of my favorite characters in ALL of Pokemon. Too bad he isn't so awesome in battle. There is WAY too many ways you can beat this. Any grass type does wonders, and should you have a ground type like Diglett (who is RIGHT NEXT TO HIS GYM) or Nidoking, you instantly win. And only his Raichu has the devastating thunderbolt! The other two resort to growl, sonicboom, and thunder shock! Oh! So scary! And even though Surge has the scary, big bad thunderbolt at only the third gym, that aspect gets completely ruined by two things: One, due to gen 1 AI, he at times may use thunder shock instead! Two, ground types!
And hello! Welcome to the buff the weak boss show! Hosted by Jerry! Today, we will look at Lt.Surge! Here is how he can be improved!
Pokemon: Electabuzz
Level: 23
Moves: Quick Attack, Leer, Thunderbolt
Pokemon: Jolteon
Level: 23
Moves: Pin Missile, Double Kick, Thunderbolt
Pokemon: Raichu
Level: 26
Moves: Swift, Quick Attack, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt
Level: 23
Moves: Quick Attack, Leer, Thunderbolt
Pokemon: Jolteon
Level: 23
Moves: Pin Missile, Double Kick, Thunderbolt
Pokemon: Raichu
Level: 26
Moves: Swift, Quick Attack, Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt
Last edited:
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
A while back I posted about my favorite and least favorite first gym leader (those being Viola and Emerald Roxanne respectively). Since then I've come to realize there are quite a few pretty crappy first gym leaders. Let's go through them.
I'll give both incarnations of Falkner this: Either way you play he serves as a perfect introduction to the Johto Gym Challenge, just for reasons most likely not intended by the developers. In his case, he's a perfect representation of everything wrong with these games' boss design: Janky levels courtesy of his Pidgeotto, trolly/annoying strats like his Sand-Attack spam and a constant unwillingness to actually utilize any of those shiny extra 100 Pokemon introduced in Gen 2.
They didn't even try with Roark. A Rock-type first gym leader when RSE already had one, and all he's got to show for it is a team which is literally Brock's + Cranidos. Doesn't help that his actual gym is a snoozefest even for 1st gym standards, and again a semi-clone of Pewter Gym when you compare them side-by-side. Using Stealth Rock is kind of novel and I like the detail where he and his dad Byron use the two fossils between their gym battles but it's too little too late with all the other stuff going against him.
Milo is like the anti-Viola. Whereas she was the one brilliant gem in the pile of shit that was XY's boss battles, Milo is by far the poorest showing and a pretty mediocre first impression to one of the near-universally recognized best Gym Challenges in the series. Muscle daddy status can't save him from being pretty boring as a character compared to the heavy lifters like Raihan and Piers, and his team is by far one of the worst in the game, falling into the "two mons of the same evolutionary line on one team" trap and falling hard with having both Gossifleur and Eldegoss and nothing else.
While writing this I also recalled Celever mentioned when that discussion came up that he liked BW2 Cheren the most since as a Normal leader he didn't give an advantage/disadvantage to any of the starters over one another. But alas, he forgot about our lord and savior Pokemon Sun and Moon, so he neglected to mention...
Yeah yeah he's technically not a gym leader and if you wanna be really anal about it you can bring up how Popplio learns Disarming Voice at like Level 8, but it's not that immense of an advantage compared to, say, the easy wins the 1st Rock leaders give to Water and Grass starters at the expense of Fire starters and he's close enough to the level of the average first gym leader + being the first Kahuna. Besides I just personally like Hala more than Cheren and think his team is way more interesting, you don't see Mankey too often that's for sure and his Crabrawler is just a cool main mon. I don't count the USUM version since the aforementioned cool and unusual Mankey is replaced with yet another Machop because USUM are a crime against humanity that were seemingly dedicated to obliterating nearly every last good thing the original games tried to do.
I'll give both incarnations of Falkner this: Either way you play he serves as a perfect introduction to the Johto Gym Challenge, just for reasons most likely not intended by the developers. In his case, he's a perfect representation of everything wrong with these games' boss design: Janky levels courtesy of his Pidgeotto, trolly/annoying strats like his Sand-Attack spam and a constant unwillingness to actually utilize any of those shiny extra 100 Pokemon introduced in Gen 2.
They didn't even try with Roark. A Rock-type first gym leader when RSE already had one, and all he's got to show for it is a team which is literally Brock's + Cranidos. Doesn't help that his actual gym is a snoozefest even for 1st gym standards, and again a semi-clone of Pewter Gym when you compare them side-by-side. Using Stealth Rock is kind of novel and I like the detail where he and his dad Byron use the two fossils between their gym battles but it's too little too late with all the other stuff going against him.
Milo is like the anti-Viola. Whereas she was the one brilliant gem in the pile of shit that was XY's boss battles, Milo is by far the poorest showing and a pretty mediocre first impression to one of the near-universally recognized best Gym Challenges in the series. Muscle daddy status can't save him from being pretty boring as a character compared to the heavy lifters like Raihan and Piers, and his team is by far one of the worst in the game, falling into the "two mons of the same evolutionary line on one team" trap and falling hard with having both Gossifleur and Eldegoss and nothing else.
While writing this I also recalled Celever mentioned when that discussion came up that he liked BW2 Cheren the most since as a Normal leader he didn't give an advantage/disadvantage to any of the starters over one another. But alas, he forgot about our lord and savior Pokemon Sun and Moon, so he neglected to mention...
Yeah yeah he's technically not a gym leader and if you wanna be really anal about it you can bring up how Popplio learns Disarming Voice at like Level 8, but it's not that immense of an advantage compared to, say, the easy wins the 1st Rock leaders give to Water and Grass starters at the expense of Fire starters and he's close enough to the level of the average first gym leader + being the first Kahuna. Besides I just personally like Hala more than Cheren and think his team is way more interesting, you don't see Mankey too often that's for sure and his Crabrawler is just a cool main mon. I don't count the USUM version since the aforementioned cool and unusual Mankey is replaced with yet another Machop because USUM are a crime against humanity that were seemingly dedicated to obliterating nearly every last good thing the original games tried to do.
Last edited: