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The Side-effects of Religion

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Christians do these things too, hth

Did anyone say Christians are perfect? I don't believe so. I do believe that what J-Man meant here is that Atheists lack a "moral-code". Have you ever taken the class Sociology? I'm probably sure you have. If this word rings a bell, then I'm sure I can explain: "taboo". Taboo means: " 2 a : banned on grounds of morality or taste <the subject is taboo> b : banned as constituting a risk" (Merriam-Webster Dictionary). Most humans if not all agree in one way or another that killing, either another person or oneself is stupid, thus the reason that murder/homicide/suicide/whatever else, is usually a taboo. What J-Man is saying, is that a "radical" atheist (and I don't mean radical as in politically radical) usually lacks the sense of following the norms that many people follow today, especially in the case of taboos. To murder is a taboo (this is just an example), because it brings uncertainty into society. Having war isn't a taboo, because it doesn't bring as much uncertainty and it is usually planned out (although that's partially an incorrect statement). Most of the "rules" in religion try to rule out uncertainty, so that the risk of taking out an entire population in society does not happen. It's uncertainty that is the reason why moral-codes exist, at least on the basis of the sociological stand-point. I am pointing this out to let people understand that religion or rather Christianity does not force you to be perfect or at least act in that way. Rather, it is an alternative to living a life filled with uncertainty (will you die one day or do you have a back-up plan, so to speak). It provides more purpose than one can ask. Just ask people like Jim Rohn or the CEO of ChicFillet. These guys were/are amongst the most richest people in the world (and are Christian), and were they perfect? Of course not! Did they cuss or do stupid stuff in their lifetime? Probably. But in the end, when you are about to die, do you think they are going look back upon their life and think that it was a waste of time, or do you think that they will say, I actually accomplished something in my life: I helped people. These guys had purpose in their life due to the fact that they weren't just living out each day as it came. They planned, they created, they worked. And all because of their belief. Anyways, that's that. I'm done here for now.
 
What are you talking about? Atheists don't necessarily lack a moral code. Some do, but that's a minority. They just don't have one imposed on them because someone said so a couple of milennia ago. People don't need religion to tell them what is right or wrong. Blindly following the moral code of one's religion without second thought is much worse.
 
Have you ever taken the class Sociology?
Thankfully no. I did library work at 6th form - biggest textbooks were the sociology ones, followed closely by psychology. Wouldn't have liked lugging that around in my rucksack, never mind learning it.

/offtopic
 
@OP Religion does not cause people to go deranged and angry. Some people will be asshole and idiots even if there was no religion. It is just easier to blame another force instead of accepting things how they are. It is much easier to rally people behind something that they already think about and believe, like their religion, that make each and every hick and hillbilly listen to their politics. Humans have a natural herd mentality, group think or whatever you want to call it.

About religion in general. I am a Christian. My mentality is, if live like a Christian is supposed to live, if there is a god, then great, I made it to heaven. If there isn't oh well, I still lived a good life and people will remember me as a kind person. Win-Win.
 
argh... guys i can't respond cause you guys triggered the "adult/mature" setting on my controls... i'll see what ican do, but please keep this conversation clean... and no, light use of curse words don't trigger them...
 
I totally agree with Cantab. Some atheists may lack morals; on the contrary, there are Christians who lack morals as well. Morals aren't "hey if I do this god will put me in heaven". Morals are "Hey I believe that Iranian women shouldn't get stoned to death for adultery because that isn't right". You don't get rewarded for having morals, nor do you get punished for lacking them. That's not what morals are. You do it because you feel it is the right thing to do. The blatantly false claim that atheists have no morals is just that; blatantly false. You can't say that one specific group of people lack morals. J-man's claim of Atheists doing things like drugs, pre marital sex, fights, etc can be said about any ethnic or religious group...there will always be some people who do these things. You don't think that there are Christians who do drugs? Have pre marital sex? Get into bar fights? People do these things because they believe that it is okay to do them (e.g. morals). This doesn't mean you lack morals, just have different ones than other people.

also i lol at anyone using the bible/holy text to prove a god exists.
read:
MY MAGIC SPACE PANDA DREW THE UNIVERSE AS IT IS TODAY AND YOU CANNOT PROVE ME WRONG

This is obviously utter bullshit-baseless, no evidence. Like most holy texts.

Also I want to say that we need to stop being so fucking tolerant of other religions. People like the Texas BOE are ruining America. I live in Georgia. I am the only atheist in my school. When my teachers used to teach evolution, however many years ago they taught it, everyone in the class would bitch. And moan. And everything else that it wasn't true. Some even got together and bombed a test on it to "prove a point". People like this lack morals. They are only concerned with going to heaven. Just a thought. ps read latios' link.
 
Food is a thing of this world.
You got me "there", i was being too lazy when i knew i could find verses conserning cursing.
Also, saying that I'm guilty enough to be sent to hell is judging me. Do not judge lest ye be judge. I don't say this in jest. It's one of my core tenets, and should be one of yours.
You seem to misunderstand my use of "you". I'm not using it directed at you, i'm using it in a broad context, concerning everyone, including me.
Further, the quote from Exodus hold to the old belief that you should not say or write the name of the Lord. We rarely say his name either, but don't mistake a passionate sign of reverence for a sinful act.
If they were not allowed to right The Lord's name, then why, in every OT book except Esther, is his name written? Anyways, since God is the name we reference to the Christian's Jehovah, then using that is taking God's name in vain.

Romans 2: 12-16
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Taking the name of the Lord in vain falls under "the law". It isn't just "a passionate sign of reverance."

Oh please. No curse word we speak today was spoken when the bible was written.
You blatantly sidestepped the verses that he produced after you asked for them with this pathetic excuse? It doesn't matter if a curse word was made before or after Paul wrote this, it's still classified as curse!
The quote itself has more to do with the nothing but god approach to life.
I think you missed this verse:
“But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned” (Matt. 12:36-37).

Thank you Interval... You did what i should have done...

This is bull. Although there are definitely atheists that act this way it is not something that we all follow.

You missed this, or intentionally ignored it...:

Or maybe not doing these things...
Straw Man argument????? Who knows....


Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. They're both very general terms. There are atheistic belief systems that might be called religions, just as there are theistic religions.
Well... Both adhere to the definition of Religion... Case Closed.

The origin of species by means of evolution by natural selectionis a scientifc theory, not a religion. Evolution sensu stricto - the gradual change of organisms over generations - is an observed fact. And no-one but creationists refers to "Darwinism".
Sure, Celebrating Darwin's birthday and the anniversary of Origins isn't ritualistic. Venomously denying the possibility of anything other than Evolution isn't Darwinist behavior. And no, Evolution is not an observed fact... besides change within a species, i have yet to see a reptile turn into a bird without interpreting the facts to adhere to such an absurd claim.

And the theory of evolution by natural selection has absolutely nothing to do with the "cause" or "purpose" of the Universe. It describes the behaviour of one small part of it. All scientific theories seek to describe the behaviour of some portion of the Universe to some degree of accuracy. None can say anything about the "purpose" of the Universe or whether such a purpose exists, and they can only explain how something was caused in terms of it being caused by something else or it being a random event.
Belief in evolution most certainly does have something to do with the cause and purpose of the Universe. While not directly, atheist believers must rely on erroneous descriptions of how the universe was created so that evolution could begin; "cause". and certainly, the purpose of evolution is to eventually prove it as fact.

please provide me with evidence that supports any religious belief. Holy books do not count.
If i am not allowed to use holy books, then you, sir, are not allowed to use science. plain an simple. asking me not to use the Bible is like asking me to throw down all my armor and weapons in a battle. It is Unreasonable. PERIOD. Anyways, to respond to your argument, it's the impossibility of the contrary world views that justify the Christian belief.

you must be kidding me. Please explain to me what love and marriage are then

countdown to "TO MAKE BABIES" response
Excuse me, but you didn't read what i said. If you wanna debate marriage, then make the thread. I said i wasn't going to argue anything on marriage in this thread. the only reason i responded is because religion not allowing people to marry other people of the same sex is an unfair hatred of religion.

Darwinism maybe, but calling atheism a religion is beyond stupid.
Opinionated?
Atheism is a response to claims of religion, nothing more.
Proof? This logic makes no sense.

Christians do these things too, hth

Romans 3...
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better[b]? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.

Romans 6....
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

If you can't piece this together, than i'll explain. The difference between Atheist and Christian is that the Christian knows that he does is wrong and seeks forgiveness... Not so much for the Atheist...

This is wrong. We went over this extensively in the texas education thread so I'll just link a post from there that explains it

This is wrong... I promise to refrain from using darwinism... But i already went over the dictionary.com. Your Nonbelief IS a belief. Humanism is your moral code and superhuman agency. Attacking those who have belief and celebrating those who back up your faith is your ritual.

There is no dogma for atheism, no set of beliefs, no anything.
That's a lie, there can't be nothing.
The only thing that is common for all atheists is that they lack the belief of a god.
Now you are double talking.
If you want to call that a religion then fine but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else to back you up on that
It seems you are hard pressed to prove Atheism is not a religion. This claim is ridiculous and the logic being used is also ridiculous.
You should the post below or two refuting this nonsense.

from a humanistic point of view.... sure? I said that the Atheist moral code is do what makes you happy.... And i most certainly said that would include NOT DOING VICE. Sure that is the norm to not do vice, but there is no real reason to follow law if their is no higher power than man to give law.

Idiot. I hope you get MRSA. Then tell me evolution is not an observed fact.
Ad hominen... Can i have this post reported? this is a terrible attack. You know better. You certainly know better than this behavior, and you rest my case on morals.

That is all for now, i promised i'd get off at this time.
 
Atheists as a group, lack a moral code, it is left to the individual what he sees as right and wrong. Therefore, while all atheists do not have unified morals, an individual atheist may or may not have what we call morals.
 
And no, Evolution is not an observed fact... besides change within a species, i have yet to see a reptile turn into a bird without interpreting the facts to adhere to such an absurd claim.
Idiot. I hope you get MRSA. Then tell me evolution is not an observed fact.
 
You seem to misunderstand my use of "you". I'm not using it directed at you, i'm using it in a broad context, concerning everyone, including me.

So judging one person is wrong, but judging everyone is acceptable? Also is judging someone acceptable if you judge yourself at the same time?

Venomously denying the possibility of anything other than Evolution isn't Darwinist behavior.
Noone is "venomously denying the possibility of anything". Rejecting theories that have inconclusive evidence backing them up though is widely acceptable in science.

While not directly, atheist believers must rely on erroneous descriptions of how the universe was created so that evolution could begin;
You lost me there. How does the creation of the universe affect evolution? And how can you claim that these descriptions are erroneous without any evidence?

Attacking those who have belief and celebrating those who back up your faith is your ritual.
You just attacked those who don't have belief and don't tell me you don't celebrate those who back up your faith.


That's a lie, there can't be nothing. Now you are double talking. It seems you are hard pressed to prove Atheism is not a religion. This claim is ridiculous and the logic being used is also ridiculous.
You should the post below or two refuting this nonsense.
Whether atheism is a religion or not isn't important. If you want to consider it a religion be my guest, but imo atheism can't be called a religion.

And no, Evolution is not an observed fact... besides change within a species, i have yet to see a reptile turn into a bird without interpreting the facts to adhere to such an absurd claim.

Now that I think of it, I've never seen an atom... It's a conspiracy I tell you!
 
J-man you seem to have a very negative view of atheists. How many do you actually know?
If i am not allowed to use holy books, then you, sir, are not allowed to use science. plain an simple. asking me not to use the Bible is like asking me to throw down all my armor and weapons in a battle. It is Unreasonable. PERIOD. Anyways, to respond to your argument, it's the impossibility of the contrary world views that justify the Christian belief.
You can use whatever texts you want, but what you cannot do is say that the bible is true because it says that it is true.

If you can't piece this together, than i'll explain. The difference between Atheist and Christian is that the Christian knows that he does is wrong and seeks forgiveness... Not so much for the Atheist...
There are some atheists who will realize when they have wronged someone and will try to make it right


I said that the Atheist moral code is do what makes you happy..
No it is not. there is no atheist moral code, just like there is no theist moral code, because atheism is not a full philosophy, it is merely the lack of a belief in god. there are atheistic philosophies which include hedonism as their moral code but there are also atheistic philosophies which include other moral codes.
 
You blatantly sidestepped the verses that he produced after you asked for them with this pathetic excuse? It doesn't matter if a curse word was made before or after Paul wrote this, it's still classified as curse!

By who? You? The pope? As far as I can tell, the greatest authority on curse words this century was George Carlin and he was an atheist. You just can't admit that your dislike of the words <>, <>, <> etc., is a tradition so recent that to God they are insignificant. I don't know if you're baptist, but you're acting like a pharisee.

<oh wait, didn't want to break your internet>
 
I'm an Athiest. My "moral code" is "don't do shit that will hurt or piss off other people". Why? Because I don't like getting hurt or pissed off so I'm assuming that other people feel the same.

I like my set of ethics because it is easy to understand and applies to pretty much every moral dilemma. I like it because I don't take anyone's word for it and I don't do it for a reward. I do it cause I know what I don't like, and I assume most others are the same.

Also, you really can't use the bible in an argument. It's circular logic. If you wanted to argue evolution you would look at the fossil records, not hold up The Orgin of Species and say "its in a book so it's true". We're not trying to "disarm" you. We're trying to get you to use more recognizable logic.
 
If you couldn't tell from his signature (he might not have it anymore, I have him ignored) Jman doesn't care for logical arguments, and dismisses them outright, except for when he uses his special brand of logic to argue that his religious beliefs are correct.
 
If you couldn't tell from his signature (he might not have it anymore, I have him ignored) Jman doesn't care for logical arguments, and dismisses them outright, except for when he uses his special brand of logic to argue that his religious beliefs are correct.

right, and you do? you fled our last debate, you have no justification of taking such a pot shot at me.

note: that is all i have to say for the rest of today unless there is an immediate response... good night sirs.

edit: i'll have responses to your arguments tomorrow.
 
Ugh, this is becoming a religious/atheistic debate now...Guys let's stay on topic:

The topic is the Side-effects of Religion.

And since there is this debate going on, I'd like to use it as an example. We have mainly two adamantly opposing sides in the U.S.A. in terms of religion. We have Atheists who adamantly believe there is no God above, nor is there any capability that there are lifeforms from other planets who are "superhuman" (if you are atheist and deny the second statement, please refrain from calling yourself an atheist because you believe there is a greater life form out somewhere in the Universe, perhaps not God, but a superior form of life). Then you have the Christians. The Christians believe that God created the heavens (i.e. the sky) and the Earth, and all other things in the world, and that there are no other Gods besides him (His names in Hebrew are:Jehovah Jirah, Jehovah Yasha, etc.; and in English: I am that I am, I am that was, I am that will become, etc..). Now besides that point, the Atheists mainly lie their beliefs that human origins lie in evolution, and that the universe either came from a Big Bang or some other theory. The two sides are at constant conflict as to who is correct, and I doubt they will ever stop, even if one side becomes the majority (they are like opposing magnets, and both have an equal capability of spreading). Usually, Christians go on "mission trips" in order to help those in need. In the process, they usually "spread the Gospel". Atheists, however (mainly in America once again), usually try to "convert" (not really, but I am using this word in the most non-religious sense) those in religion (not all the time but it happens), in subtle ways; such as having their scientific theories taught in schools, or using the media or whatever else. Now, of course, both sides do get up front with one another very often. And most of the time, those who really don't care about Christianity (they usually hate the fact that "God" doesn't answer their prayers right away, or there was a life problem that caused them to turn away) end up becoming atheists. There are some atheists, who were brought up as atheists, that end up becoming Christians, because what they have seen in life contradicts what's in the books. These two sides are the major opposing factors in religion, and atheism was brought around mainly because of Christianity.

As to religious discrimination. Well, I wouldn't neccessarily call either side discriminatory, but since Atheists lack a religion (or rather an "organized religion" if it was said by J-Man), then it seems that Atheists do discriminate those with religion, especially when religion is brought up. Now, I am not making an assumption, but that is usually the case (there may be some Atheists who dodge any religious talk because they don't care what you believe *and that I respect more than those who argue with the religious*). This is because those in religion wish to continue their religious ways (and note, I should be saying Christianity, because most Atheists don't care if somebody's Hinduist or Muslim, if you're Christian, then Atheists are weary of you). Christianity certainly put a bad light on things today, thus the reason why it is "pseudo-discriminated". However, I am sure that's the reason why many people (the extremely conservative Christians) are Muslim-haters or something like that because they don't want Christianity to continuously get that negative light. Otherwise, I don't think that there is any absence of religious persecution. It happens in China with Christians there, it happens here in the U.S. with Muslims, and I'm sure in other parts of the world, other religions get the butt-end of society just because they have something to do with religion.

This paragraph and a half are a response to the topic and not necessarily anybody's post. I just wanted to get this back on track. This isn't a debate after all:

Just as a note before I start: Hi.
Second note: I don't want this to descend into a religious debate, we've had that many times before I'd assume.

If you guys want to debate religion and atheism and stuff, please take this to another thread. I'm not a mod or anything, but this is seriously getting off-hand.
 
We have mainly two adamantly opposing sides in the U.S.A. in terms of religion. We have Atheists who adamantly believe there is no God above,
This is not really true. Most atheist's position is more like 'there could be a god but without more evidence I see no reason to believe that there is' than 'I adamantly belive that there is no god'.

Atheists, however (mainly in America once again), usually try to "convert" (not really, but I am using this word in the most non-religious sense) those in religion (not all the time but it happens), in subtle ways; such as having their scientific theories taught in schools,
Nothing that is taught in science class has anything at all to do wih atheism or relgion. Evolution is taught because it is a great theory backed up by an enormous amount of evidence that explains a lot of what we see in biology. It is perfectly possible that even of evolution is true that Christianity is still true. The catholic church accepts evolution.
 
No comment. All my comments were based on answering the question based off the topic. I'm not going to argue with you, it's just what I see.
 
Also I want to say that we need to stop being so fucking tolerant of other religions. People like the Texas BOE are ruining America. I live in Georgia. I am the only atheist in my school. When my teachers used to teach evolution, however many years ago they taught it, everyone in the class would bitch. And moan. And everything else that it wasn't true. Some even got together and bombed a test on it to "prove a point". People like this lack morals. They are only concerned with going to heaven. Just a thought. ps read latios' link.

Wait, so because some people were intolerant of your beliefs, you want everyone else to be intolerant of theirs? Fighting fire with flames here people.

Again, Christianity did not make them act they way that did. There is no where that says "Thou must bitcheth and moaneth against things you do not like." There was a similar thing that happened with me, except in Calculus class and religion wasn't involved. Asshole are Assholes either way.

Before we continue, can everyone read this because some of these arguments and insults are just plain petty.
 
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