• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

The Uber Metagame: a Fun "Change of Pace"

Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay, all of these complaints against the Uber tier has got to stop. If you don't want to play it, fine. Shut up and leave us alone. What exactly can any possible arguments against the tier do besides being an attempt to stir up trouble?

No, it is not novelty thank you very much, and it is not wrenched either

Also I gotta agree with Gen here. After playing OU for a while I can say it is easier to create backups than it does in Ubers. This means you've got to be more careful about your actions as one wrong kill and it can kill the rest of your team.
 
<+ReyScarface> 100 Evs per stat?
<+ReyScarface> why?
<locopokee> it comes at level 100
<@aldaron> only available at level 100
<+ReyScarface> and?
<locopokee> and the Box EV training trick or whatever, doesn't work in platinum
<+ReyScarface> so?
<locopokee> errhm..
<locopokee> o.o
<@aldaron> could you trade that arceus back to dp?
<+ReyScarface> i think you can
<+ReyScarface> or maybe not
<locopokee> yeah i guess you could
<@aldaron> box ev train trick and then back to plat?
<locopokee> yeah
<locopokee> i dont see any problems with that
<locopokee> o.o
<+ReyScarface> yeah
<@aldaron> apparently you cannot because i am sure rbg would have thought of that right away
<+ReyScarface> so 252 EVs for Arceus yay
<@aldaron> rbg?
<@aldaron> damn he left
<+ReyScarface> Arceus can be traded back to D/P from Platinum?
<+jrrrr> lol
<+ReyScarface> damnit
<Flashstorm1> verizon?
<+jrrrr> o that explains it
<Flashstorm1> lol he just left
<@aldaron> apparently the box ev training trick does not work for gen 4
<@aldaron> locopoke and reyscarface
<locopokee> ?_?
<@aldaron> i dunno
<@aldaron> i am merely relaying information
<+ReyScarface> damn
<locopokee> should I post it in the uber metagame thread and see what people think?
Click to expand...

Can somebody clarify if this would work for Arceus? Trading him back to DP and using the EV Training trick to EV train him, and then trading him back to Platinum. I think somebody would have thought of this already and mentioned it if it actually did work, but I haven't heard anybody mention it yet.
 
The box trick does work in D/P (haven't tried Platinum), but you have to gain experience to gain EVs. Because you won't gain experience in battle, there's no EVs for the box trick to adjust into your stats.
 
Veedrock said:
Sorry for the double post.

From the Clash of the Titans logs I've been reading, Arceus is going to be an incredible jolt to the Ubers metagame. He won't impact much at first as people will overprepare but then they will really catch on and toy around with him, getting creative. Normal, Ghost, and Steel seem to be the most common. Normal Arceus hasn't gotten very far as it seems players are overly prepared for him (they have at least one surefire counter), while Steel Calm Mind Arceus has managed to set up relatively easy and rip things up. I predict Arceus will push the Uber metagame into the physical state since special attackers won't be able to break him, meaning Lugia and Giratina are going to whore around even more >=( Steel Arceus also puts Registeel out of a job unfortunately :'(

Just a question. Where can you play and legibly use Arcues?

Just theorymoning, but I can see why there's some quiet hype over Grass Arceus. Resistance to Ground, Water, and Electric is really hard to beat defensively, especially coming off of 120/120/120 defenses. Offensively a STAB 100 power move (+Plate bonus) hitting the current top 2 pokemon for Super Effective damage is outstanding, not to mention that it hits every psychic type (bar Lati@s) for more than Shadow Ball would. Shadow Ball would do more, but not much more damage. It's absolutely crazy. That leaves 3 other moveslots; 1 for recover, 1 for stat upping, and 1 coverage move (likely Dragon Pulse). Maybe this last point is for Arceus in general, but you get the point that it's nuts.
Click to expand...

I wonder how a Calm Mind Normal-type Arcues would fair. Not with a sweeper set though, but one that functions similarly to Bulk-Up Dialga. This is theorymon, though it looks great on paper.

Like this:
Calm Mind
Recover
Judgement
Ice Beam
Item: Leftovers:
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

Judgement + Ice Beam = very good coverage in Ubers. The Ubers that resist Normal-type Judgement are Dialga and Giratina, who are hit at least neutral by Ice Beam.

The Spe is to outrun neutral nature base 90s. Even Specs Kyogre can't beat it. Modest Kyogre is outsped, and Timid Specs cannot OHKO a +1 Arcues with SR support thanks to Leftovers. Rest goes into Def. Adamant CB Groudon has a less than a 50% chance to 2HKO this with SR support, and Groudon almost never uses a CB.

[EDIT] This set is arguably a better Rayquaza counter than Lugia thanks to no SR weakness, and it can OHKO Rayquaza without SR support.

Veedrock said:
Ok, Arceus and his soon-to-be dominance aside, I'm having some team issues. It's currently really physically based as I was almost destroyed by Skarmory. I have Choice Scarf Palkia on my team which is my "weak link." I'm running off of Sun primarily, which makes Thunder suck and Surf weaken. It's also my only special attacker outside of my lead @_@ Now the question: is there another good Special Attacker that can be scarfed to beat DD Rayquaza? That's the reason I haven't jumped straight to Dialga (who would otherwise be my go to guy)? I'd rather not risk Jolly DDQuaza and just beat out any varient available. I will go for Dialga if there's nothing else though. Also, can somebody recommend some good standalone Special Attackers? I have a placeholder in Wobbuffet but my team doesn't really benefit from him. I already have Mewtwo leading, and I have a sleep inducer so I'd rather avoid Darkrai. I'm sun based so Kyogre is a no-go. Everything else is unappealing to me off theorymon, that's why I ask. Maybe Giratina-O?
Click to expand...

You could change Palkia's movepool so that it isn't hindered by Sun. e.g. Fire Blast, Spacial Rend, Outrage/Draco Meteor, Thunder (it's there for opposing Kyogre). Otherwise, you could use Mew. Whilst it's generally inferior to Mewtwo when holding a Scarf, it has a massive suprise factor, and a better movepool. You could U-turn and Explosion to great effect, even on a Special Scarfer. Just use a few Def or HP EVs to guarantee survival from Adamant +2 Extremespeed with SR support.

Giratina-O works as a standalone special sweeper, though it's tricky getting it in. Latios works too.
 
Just a question. Where can you play and legibly use Arcues?
Click to expand...

There's nowhere to actually use him outside of locopoke's tournament unfortunately.

Shadow Ball would do more, but not much more damage.
Click to expand...

Not with the Plate boost applied:

301 Judgement vs. 0/0 Mewtwo: 50.99% - 60.34%
301 Shadow Ball vs. 0/0 Mewtwo: 45.33% - 53.82%

Thanks for the team advice. Switching Surf to Fire Blast should do the trick (surf doesn't hit anything anyways), and I'll give Giratina-O a whilrl.


About Normal CM Arceus; the thought has crossed my mind before and it's not a bad concept, but it's just that Normal has only 1 immunity while Steel is backed by a plethora of resists. Steel's coverage isn't too grand, especially for ubers, but the resists easily make up for it. I don't see much reason to use Normal over Steel for that reason.
 
So I played my first serious games today in the uber ladder. The first I noticed is that if in a normal OU game it takes say 25 turns to finish a game, in ubers it will be more like 15. I tried to use Giratina-o as a calm minder and really although it was ok, I think it will perform better as a mix attacker, something like sub, dragon claw, shadow ball and aura sphere although I don't know if it will have the necessary damage output. I'm gonna give this a try, should be fun
 
CB Arecus is surprisingly good - from experience, CB Extremespeed often cuts through teams like butter, making it a really good late game cleaner.
 
I don't know... clearly I think the impressions of ubers is that it is "samey." But that is because people are too reluctant to use pokemon that are not standard in ubers. I've seen people bring their UU teams into Ubers and beat some "samey" teams no sweat. My only Uber team I've ever used still works, and it carries 2 common OU pokemon and uses them both extremely effectively.
 
For more defensive oriented uber teams, I think that these versions of Arcreus may work better than the Extreme Killer while still remaining functional. By adding recover, you are allowing for more survivability and can help you stall as well as give the opponent the impression that you aren't the Extreme Killer.


252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant
Leftovers / Silk Scarf
-Swords Dance
-Recover
-Extremespeed
-Earthquake

80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly
Leftovers
-Swords Dance
-Recover
-Return
-Earthquake
 
RaikouLover said:
I don't know... clearly I think the impressions of ubers is that it is "samey." But that is because people are too reluctant to use pokemon that are not standard in ubers. I've seen people bring their UU teams into Ubers and beat some "samey" teams no sweat. My only Uber team I've ever used still works, and it carries 2 common OU pokemon and uses them both extremely effectively.
Click to expand...


I guess you think of T-tar and Scizor.

T-tar has uber stats thanks to sandstream, and it has some very good sets for the uber metagame. (Choice Band with Wobby, or DD for example).

Scizor, we all know him. Now the is the 2nd time in a row Nr. 1 in usage. Even Deoxys-e and Shaymin-s were never at the top of the OU list. If Scizor works in OU better than some "ubers" so why should he not work in the uber metagame ??!!

They both have also good typing for the psycho/dragon metagame uber.


"muna:For more defensive oriented uber teams, I think that these versions of Arcreus may work better than the Extreme Killer while still remaining functional. By adding recover, you are allowing for more survivability and can help you stall as well as give the opponent the impression that you aren't the Extreme Killer.


252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant
Leftovers / Silk Scarf
-Swords Dance
-Recover
-Extremespeed
-Earthquake

80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly
Leftovers
-Swords Dance
-Recover
-Return
-Earthquake"

There are only physical (SD) or special (CM) sets for Arceus(without counting choice sets). I m sure you will beat every SD Arceus in a similar way, the same for CM sets.
I personaly think that Arceus is to strong for uber, he is not even a part of the uber metagame now. It is pure theory when talking about him, the battles will show us its arresting power.
When looking at your sets i like the first one better.I m already a big fan of boosting-recovery sets. But they are limited in their attacks. Both of your sets can not touch Giratina-o.



When talking about the uber metagame now i think it has changed. I see so many Deo-e leads right now. He is the head of many uber teams. SR+Spikes or Screens, he can do that. Almost nothing can stop him. I m not sure but i think over 90% have a speed boosting nature with max speed, i had not seen one pokemon with similar speed numbers. This makes him a luck factor.Imagine it will be banned from ubers....
 
Well, actually I was referring to Metagross and Kingdra.. who are staples on my uber team. Metagross is a very underrated Tank in ubers, who works well even without Choice Band (mine is a Stealth Rocker!).. and Kingdra is a godly sweeper with Kyogre's Rain everywhere...
 
I agree with Pokeboss9, Deoxys-e leads are so common that speed ties can literally make or break the battle on the first turn with this metagame being mostly offensive and quick. Screens or Sr/Spikes is a huge advantage for any team at the very beginning while other Deoxys-e leads can only switch out or extreeme speed/ shadowball/ signal beam you then you can easily revenge kill after getting up at least one screen or SR.

Basically, speed tie deoxys-e (which is the dominating lead right now that I'm seeing) gets you the advantage while your opponent usually gets nothing. It's very annoying.

When Arceus comes out, i'm thinking of replacing him with Lucario with something like Pokeboss' spread, not quite the same. It might work. Wish i was in the Clash of the Titans to try him out.
 
Iris said:
I agree with Pokeboss9, Deoxys-e leads are so common that speed ties can literally make or break the battle on the first turn with this metagame being mostly offensive and quick. Screens or Sr/Spikes is a huge advantage for any team at the very beginning while other Deoxys-e leads can only switch out or extreeme speed/ shadowball/ signal beam you then you can easily revenge kill after getting up at least one screen or SR.

Basically, speed tie deoxys-e (which is the dominating lead right now that I'm seeing) gets you the advantage while your opponent usually gets nothing. It's very annoying.

When Arceus comes out, i'm thinking of replacing him with Lucario with something like Pokeboss' spread, not quite the same. It might work. Wish i was in the Clash of the Titans to try him out.
Click to expand...

If you don't like Deoxys-e leads, then run a Scarf lead such as Darkrai or Kyogre. Darkrai stops it cold if it isnt carrying lum berry, and Kyogre takes it down in 1-2 hits depending if it has a Sash or not. Mewtwo can also solve your issue having a Choice Scarf and hitting it with a fast Taunt / Shadow Ball. Do not look at things as "too good" because in most cases it can be stopped. I already provided three ways to stop Deoxys-e from getting anything more than two layers of spikes to 1 sr + 1 spikes. Even Taunt Choice Scarf Mewtwo (albeit a bit strange) makes most leads it's bitch with Focus Blast, Shadow Ball and Explosion.
 
I noticed in an Arceus match on Shoddy that knock off knocked off my Arceus' plate when Multitype should prevent this. This is just something to watch out for until this is fixed. This also caused my Arceus to revert to the normal type as well.
 
Clocks said:
I noticed in an Arceus match on Shoddy that knock off knocked off my Arceus' plate when Multitype should prevent this. This is just something to watch out for until this is fixed. This also caused my Arceus to revert to the normal type as well.
Click to expand...


Multitype should not prevent this. What should happen is: [Pokemon] uses Knock Off on Arceus and [Plate] is removed. Arceus will still stay in whatever type the Plate provided. Though, once Arceus is switched out and switches back in, it will not transform into any type (since the Plate is gone) and it will remain in Normal form.

Remember that the Plates only transform arceus when he is first sent out.
 
Man, I wish I could get into Ubers, it just my only attempt was so bad, I gave up... I really can't think of where to start.
 
The best place to start is to literally just make a team. From there you notice what the faults with your team are and you fix them. Ubers isn't really that hard to get into, considering that you know what specific threats you are pretty much guaranteed to battle against. DD/SD Rayquaza, RP Groudon, Specs Kyogre, Scarf Palkia/Dialga and Wobbuffet are all extremely common sweepers / support pokemon. If you would like I can PM you a team if you really have no idea where to start.
 
You could also get a tutor to teach you or join #stark on irc and talk to people there about ubers.
 
Macle said:
You could also get a tutor to teach you or join #stark on irc and talk to people there about ubers.
Click to expand...


He could also go to #ubers for some Uber Discussions and to have people tell him stuff about the metagame. Also, thanks for pointing that out to me Gen. I decided to ban Knock Off from my tournament since it'd be stupid for people to go around getting rid of Plates left and right when it isn't legal.
 
I wanted to quickly bring up the topic of leads. I have no battled a single lead not called Deoxys-E in my last 5 uber battles and there is no way to prevent it from setting up apart for a fast, Choice Scarf Taunter who is actually viable to work on a team and that doesn't exist to my knowledge. The closest thing to a counter is a Scarfkrai and that isn't that isn't reliable.

If you go for the Dark Void, then Lum Berry might save it. If you go for Dark Pulse, then Focus Sash might save it. If you go for Trick, then it will be able to set up at least Stealth Rocks which is a problem to anybody who like to use Lugia and Rayquaza like me and it can still come back in later, bring able to literally outspeed anything (including all Choice Scarf users) to set up Spikes once you trick a Choice Scarf on. The lack of good Rapid Spinners also makes it very important to prevent SR from getting out on the field.

My main question is how do you beat it? How can it be prevented from setting up Stealth Rocks?
 
ive seen some lead starmies with life orb which can surf and then rapid spin. these starmies also OHKO groudon. they have trouble against darkrai though.

you could also use mamoswine with ice shard/EQ/SR/endeavor. EQ then ice shard lets deoxys only set up one layer. these leads also beat any kyogre lead with 2 earthquakes (if its slower) or endeavor then ice shard is they are faster.

you could also use a scarf shaymin-s which fucks over deoxys with air slash, or CB tyranitar which kills with crunch.

its all experimentation. most leads that beat deoxys lose to darkrai
 
Mamo loses to deoxyes-E, EQ + Ice shard won't OHKO. Scarf Dakrai or Scarf Shaymin-S is likely you best bet just sleep it or flinch it, most are sash.
 
Mamo loses to deoxyes-E, EQ + Ice shard won't OHKO. Scarf Dakrai or Scarf Shaymin-S is likely you best bet just sleep it or flinch it, most are sash.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Scarf pokemon for stopping it aren't too reliable either. If I see Shaymin-S I'm not risking it, especially if I still have a sash... I'll just switch to something that really doesn't give a shit, like Metagross. Deoxys-E is so fast he can come in later and get his two layers of whatever in.

I honestly would just get used to not preventing Stealth Rock I don't really think its a big deal even if you have pokemon like Lugia. As for Deoxys-E vs. Deoxys-E speed ties, they are so common so just get used to it. If you lose, just go for the kill to keep your sash then set your shit up once taunt wears off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top