The UU Viability Ranking Thread

kokoloko

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As the list stands in the OP right now, I'm thinking:

Azelf, Qwilfish, and Swampert should all be dropped down from A to B.

Nidoqueen should be bumped up from B to A.

Azumarril, Durant, Machamp, Meloetta, Scolipede, and Zoroark should be dropped down from B to C. I'd even go as far as saying Blastoise, Galvantula, and Cinccino should drop too, tbh.

Reasoning:

I know people are going to think I'm crazy cause everyone's loving Qwilfish right now (myself included actually), but there's some huge flaws you can't overlook when making these decisions. This thing is complete and utter setup bait for a lot of the things its typing/role is supposed to counter. Cobalion sets up all over it with either Taunt or Substitute unless you want to run Scald (which I've actually been doing lol), as does Bisharp because Defiant is a gay ability. It's offensive presence is so low even Chandelure can switch into it. It's a great mon and it pairs very nicely with Umbreon, but A rank should be for Pokemon that don't have such an obvious flaw, imo.

Swampert is another good mon that I might get some flack about, but hear me out. While its very very good at its job (and unlike Qwilfish, isn't setup bait), I think the majority of its niche (that is, checking Fire- and Electric-types) gets eaten up by the more threatening Rhyperior. That alone should be a reason to bump it down. There's also the fact that its a tank without recovery, though.

I'm honestly surprised Azelf is still A rank. While, yes, it can be very, very dangerous, it often just, well... isn't. Most of the danger factor on this one comes from pure theorymon. 115 base Speed and twin 125 offenses... holy shit, but then you realize its extremely frail, every Choice Scarf user in the tier hits it super effectively, and it gets walled by Umbreon most of the time.

I am stupefied as to why Nidoqueen, the Pokemon many consider the best in the tier atm, is still on the same rank as fucking Blastoise? Amazing defensive typing that gives it the ability to check Fighting- and Electric-types, two of the most dangerous in the tier, a better movepool than the based Arceus itself, sets up Stealth Rock, absorbs Toxic Spikes upon entry, wallbreaks, and fits into pretty much any team and literally every playstyle. I would even go as far as saying Nidoqueen is S, tbh.

The rest of the stuff, I don't feel like going into, but it just isn't on par with the rest of the Pokemon in that tier.
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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I'm on my phone, and your post has too much text for me to use the Reply button safely, so I'mma just post here...Kokoloko for the most part I guess I do agree with your stance on most pokes but I feel you shafted Swampert more than need be...as far as it goes, Swampert dies to an HP Grass/Grass Knot all the same as Rhyperior would...same deal with Scald. (Though unlike Rhyp, swampert at least isn't being 2HKO'd at the risk of a burn). But I wanna know, how exactly does it check Fire/Electrics better than Swampert outside of crushing zapdos with a STAB Rock move?

I mean, not only that but Swampert also checks Fighting/Ground attackers heck of a lot better than Rhyperior...assuming the defensive tank sets for both, the only reason Rhyperior can at least stand up to STAB Earthquakes and such is because of Solid Rock...and then on top of that BOTH pokes are tanks with no reliable recovery. I mean, it feels like you're saying it deserves B-Rank because it's less popular.
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Kay since I have nothing better to do I'll post my thoughts all of these one by one (imao)

Milotic: Eh, it's fine where it is. I know Milotic doesn't do very well in UU, and it sucks in general, but the lack of extra weaknesses from Slowking is kinda nice, and Milotic does pack a bit of every Water-type. Milotic is still a decent choice for a check to Fire-types and the like by virtue of its good (not great bulk). Milotic isn't great, but it isn't D/E material.

Qwilfish: I dunno tbh. Qwilfish is really good, but I can definitely see the point in dropping it to B. It's physically defensive capabilities are pretty neat, but it's pretty frail on the special side. Being bait for Raikou and Zapdos is also pretty bad, and it's piss weak. I like its support capabilities, and Qwilfish is definitely awesome, but I wouldn't be opposed to it being B-Rank.

Azelf: I can't really be sure on this one on this one despite my big fetish for the lake trio (especially mesprit), but I haven't had an awful lot of trouble dealing with it because it's fraility means anything OHKOes it. Thinking about it though B might seem reasonable since I've always been kinda disappointed in it because it dies so easily imo.

Swampert: CSB does say something on this one; although I feel like Swampert does well at its job, and I'm not sure if Rhyperior is enough of a reason to move it down.

Nidoqueen: I'd totally support this move. This thing is really good imo, and is 100% A. It hits really hard with SF+LO and great coverage, so it can deal a lot of damage once it gets in; Nidoqueen also has those nifty Fighting and Electric resistances (immunity in the latter), which is pretty nice overall. That bulk is also pretty nice, and Nidoqueen is really good, warrants A-Rank imo.

Azumarill/Durant: I can't really comment on these two since I don't use them much

Machamp: I support Machamp dropping down. I feel like it has almost no reason to be used over other more rewarding Fighting-types like Heracross, Mienshao, as well as other things like Scrafty and Virizion. No Guard DynamicPunch looks neat on paper, but in practice it's just too reliant on luck to succeed; also Machamp is pretty slow and isn't remarkably bulky. Also keep in mind that Machamp is relying on a weaker STAB move than other Fighting-types; and they have better potential than Machamp in the end. No Guard is also somewhat of a detriment to Machamp as well, because it means even if your opponent is relying on a normally inaccurate move you can't fish for a miss. Even worse is the fact that Machamp suffers from a meta filled with Fighting-type counters like Nidoqueen and Cofagrigus that are used to handle Heracross/Mienshao, and Machamp doesn't have many advantages. Definitely drop.

Meloetta: Okay I'm going to actually disagree with this one. I use Meloetta and I really like it. I think Meloetta definitely has advantages over other Mew and Azelf to warrant use honestly. The Normal typing does provide it some advantage imo, so it can be a great answer to OTR Cofagrigus and to an extent Mismagius, and I also like the mix of hitting a lot harder than Mew and having neat bulk to back it up imo. SubCM Meloetta is really good, and I like it as a CM attacker. It also has room for Sub and CM in a set so it can dodge Sucker Punch from Honchkrow and Bisharp, and be a good offensive threat too. I think it's good enough for B actually.

Scolipede: I love Scolipede. That said, I think dropping it would be fine, because I like using it as a Spikes lead and I personally think it's underrated, but it faces competition from Smeargle and Qwilfish as a spiker, and it's good but it's only on the same level as Accelgor imo. Then again, C would be fine (and that's what I suggested in the first place but it was placed in B)

Zoroark: I think this would be reasonable honestly though, because Zoroark is a pretty risky Pokemon with not that much reward. Illusion is kinda a risky ability, and if your opponent legitimately manages to see through the disguise (for some reason I always manage to know if the opponent is really a Zoroark), and Zoroark is also really frail and a Fighting weakness is pretty exploitable. B might be too high, but C is definitely good imo.

Just my thoughts.
 
I agree with Kokoloko as well, even with Swampert. However, Scolipede is really under-rated IMO, even though it's is outclassed by Roserade and Nidoqueen, it does have the advantage of speed, meaning it can set up spikes surprisingly well. Also, Zoroark can hit surprisingly hard, and is very versatile in the fact that it has Illusiona and it can run many sets. (Nasty Plot, Choice Spec/Scarf, and LO.) However, it is EXTREMELY frail, meaning it can be more trouble than it's worth in some/most battles. I wouldn't be disappointed if he dropped. Blastoise, however, is one of the best B pokes IMO, being the only good spinner bar Hitmontop (who isn't even that good anyway.) Even though he becomes near useless after a Toxic and has no good means of Recovery, he can still spin away the Spikes and T-Spikes which make Pokemon like Nidoqueen, Roserade, and Qwilfish so good. Plus, with Foresight, he can almost always get off a spin.
 
I agree with everything Koko suggested except Nidoqueen. Although it's typing is really good in this meta, the fact that basically any set up physical sweeper can plow through it is a problem. If you opt to be able to OHK most of the physical threats by using the Offensive set, you lose a lot of defensive prowess. Due to this, Nidoqueen is worn down quite quickly. The most common Scarfer, Mienshao (And I would say, the best fighting type in UU atm) still does a nice chunk to the offensive set: 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 139-164 (40.17 - 47.39%)

This is not to say that Nidoqueen cannot OHK it with this set, because Earth Power is OHKing Mienshao regardless (If it's the offensive set). However, if Nidoqueen opts to take hits better: 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Nidoqueen: 99-117 (25.78 - 30.46%) -- possible 4HKO

0 SpA Sheer Force Nidoqueen Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 150-177 (55.35 - 65.31%)

Nidoqueen cannot quite take out Mienshao, and Nidoqueen can be worn down quickly due to the lack of reliable recovery. Because of that, I feel Nidoqueen should not move up to A. Although it's a poke recognized for its many redeeming qualities, the fact that it has to has to either lose almost all offensive pressure by running a defensive set, or lose a LOT of its useful ability to take fighting and bug hits by running an offensive set, is just off putting. This is unlike something like, say Rhyperior, who, invested, can still dish out hits AND take resisted hits on both types of attacks like a champ.
 

kokoloko

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RE: Swampert vs Rhyperior:

The way I look at it, these two are interchangeable in teambuilding. The only reasons I'd run one over the other are are the few mons that one checks that the other doesn't. Off the top of my head, Rhyperior checks Togekiss while Swampert checks Sharpedo, but their general role/utility in the team is 95% the same.

However, Rhyperior is just better in general due to being much more threatening offensively and access to STAB Rock Blast to shit on SubRoost Zapdos (which beats Swampert). The weakness to Ground and Fighting attacks is mitigated a bit by its massive Defense and Solid Rock (granted, if your team's weak to those two types, you should probably use Swampert instead). I really do think Rhyperior is a better mon in general, though, which to me equates to Swampert being partially outclassed by it... enough to drop it to B imo.

@Aecor - Holy shit you are using Nidoqueen wrong. It's not supposed to be a counter to anything ever, its supposed to be an offensive check to everything. The fact that it /can/ tank two hits from those guys is really fucking impressive considering its an offensive Pokemon lol
 
For Nidoqueen I feel the same way, that's why I was wondering if the 152 EVs in speed were so important, since Nidoqueen's bulk is good but not exceptionnal. Wouldn't it be better to go for a 252 HP 252 SpA spread, or 236/252/20 in Speed to outspeed Blastoise for example ? 152 EVs seems a huge waste to me for a pokemon who's supposed to be able to take hard hits before hitting harder. Not to mention that Nidoqueen doesn't have any recovery at all...Which means that yeah she can take two hits from some powerful attackers but then she will have very low hp, and die to almost anything...Then again, being slow doesn't help...
So why the 152 EVs in speed ?
 

CoolStoryBrobat

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For Nidoqueen I feel the same way, that's why I was wondering if the 152 EVs in speed were so important, since Nidoqueen's bulk is good but not exceptionnal. Wouldn't it be better to go for a 252 HP 252 SpA spread, or 236/252/20 in Speed to outspeed Blastoise for example ? 152 EVs seems a huge waste to me for a pokemon who's supposed to be able to take hard hits before hitting harder. Not to mention that Nidoqueen doesn't have any recovery at all...Which means that yeah she can take two hits from some powerful attackers but then she will have very low hp, and die to almost anything...Then again, being slow doesn't help...
So why the 152 EVs in speed ?
It's mainly to outspeed other slow, bulky Pokemon, but the analysis specifically says "The EVs on this set allow Nidoqueen to reach 227 Speed, outrunning Xatu, Roserade, most Togekiss, and defensive Arcanine. From there, Nidoqueen can easily KO these Pokemon with a super effective move." But basically it's able to do respectable damage to most walls and retain the ability of being a pain to switch into given its awesome coverage. The leftover bulk is to just tank a hit or two while striking back and wrecking something with, once again dat awesome coverage.
 
I'd just like to say, Azelf can dish out a lot of pain...

Because of it's great coverage, It's able to dish out lots of pain, from the get go. It outspeeds almost everything. If it gets a nasty plot, it can ko the whole tier, except for some select few.

The biggest problem however, for it, is pursuit. However, I still think that it should be in "A"

There are also many other great set that it can use, making it able to fit into many teams.
 

Nas

Banned deucer.
RE: Swampert vs Rhyperior:

The way I look at it, these two are interchangeable in teambuilding. The only reasons I'd run one over the other are are the few mons that one checks that the other doesn't. Off the top of my head, Rhyperior checks Togekiss while Swampert checks Sharpedo, but their general role/utility in the team is 95% the same.

However, Rhyperior is just better in general due to being much more threatening offensively and access to STAB Rock Blast to shit on SubRoost Zapdos (which beats Swampert). The weakness to Ground and Fighting attacks is mitigated a bit by its massive Defense and Solid Rock (granted, if your team's weak to those two types, you should probably use Swampert instead). I really do think Rhyperior is a better mon in general, though, which to me equates to Swampert being partially outclassed by it... enough to drop it to B imo.

@Aecor - Holy shit you are using Nidoqueen wrong. It's not supposed to be a counter to anything ever, its supposed to be an offensive check to everything. The fact that it /can/ tank two hits from those guys is really fucking impressive considering its an offensive Pokemon lol
There's a few mons you missed that Swampert checks that are actually quite important, those being Kingdra and Weavile. Granted, you can't switch into RD Kingdra when Rain is up but unlike Rhyperior, it isn't forcing you out and it actually checks DD Kingdra quite well. With regards to Weavile though, you can switch into Swords Dance, take ~50% from Night Slash and KO with Earthquake most of the time after SR and one turn of recoil, which is really impressive since Weavile wrecks p much everything.

I really don't think Swampert should be dropped down to B rank. As you said, they're interchangeable in team building and fill the same role with slight differences in the mons they check. To address your points about Rhyperior outclassing Swampert: Rhyperior may have more offensive presence, but Swampert has Scald...enough said. Besides, that alone isn't reason enough to say that Rhyperior outclasses Swampert. As for SubRoost Zapdos, the only way it is beating Swampert is if it uses Toxic, which is a terrible set because Nidoqueen lol!

Also, I'm going to suggest we promote Ambipom to B Rank. Why? It's a really fucking good Pokemon against offense, which atm is the best playstyle to be using. Fake Out / Return / Low Kick / Beat Up @ Life Orb is really hard to wall even for Bulky Offense, (Beat Up 2HKOes Cofagrigus and Slowbro) with Bronzong and Sableye being the only 2 commonly used Pokemon that completely wall it. Before people go ahead and say it's outclassed Cinccino, I'd advise you not to underestimate the utility of Fake Out. Ambipom is at the very least just as good, so it should be B rank imo.

Also also, I support Nidoqueen moving up to A rank. (not S though) B rank looks kind of messy right now, there are a few other Pokemon I feel should be moved down that I won't get into right now because I'm tired, but in a nutshell; Scolipede->C Rank, Galvantula->C Rank, Lilligant->C Rank
 
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Celever

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It may be odd to nominate a Pokemon who doesn't even have a UU analysis as of yet to a rank, but I asked koko to check him out earlier to see if he thinks he is worthy of an analysis -- I definitely do.

I would like to nominate Kangaskhan for B rank.
Kangaskhan has very nicely spread stats, combining bulk and power into one fantastic Pokemon -- 105 base HP, 95 base Attack and 90 base Speed are all pretty good, even in UU. He may seem like a jack-of-all-trades kind of Pokemon, but he has several sets that work well thanks to his fantastic movepool. Since he has access to utility moves such as Fake Out and Wish, as well as the ability Scrappy to catch hazard-weakened Chandelure for example, Kangaskhan can be a fantastic utility Pokemon, and evidently this is my favourite set of his (D-Edge, Fake Out, Wish+Protect with Scrappy and Life Orb). He can also run fully offensive sets -- Choice Band, Choice Scarf, all-out attacker Life Orb -- quite effectively, and he can meet your team's needs thanks to his fantastic movepool. Ok I get it, the Choice Band set is an inferior Snorlax, right? Well, mostly yes but it does boast far better Physical Defense and Speed, so they actually play out rather differently. Choice Scarf is actually a very nice revenge-killer, both thanks to surprise and fantastic Speed to start off with. Kangaskhan obviously has flaws -- not excelling at any one thing but being great at lots of them, mono-normal Typing and the competition it receives in many different areas which keep it in B rank, but I just think Kangaskhan is too good for C rank.

He can also run some good fully-defensive sets on paper but I am yet to test him on that.
 
My favourite set to use on swampert is the tankbro set. It beats crobat with ice punch, makes Rhyperior run for the hills and ohkoes offensive nidoqueen sets. Adamant swampert is like Nidoqueen almost but not quite, and the amount of times someone has swapped in Kingdra and d danced only to see that Swampy 2hkoes it and can take a boosted outrage is pretty funny, what with Scald sort of being set up bait for the lum berry set. I don't know what someone would think you can set up on Swampert before you scout the set but there it is.
 
Ambipom is not B rank because it is walled/revenge killed by so many Pokemon. Even super-effective hits won't don that much, and most walls can heal off damage. Bronzong, Sableye, and Gligar are all common Pokes who wall it to death. Not to mention Rhyperior is only 3HKO'd by Low Kick and can kill with prior damage (Which isn't hard to rack up with Qwilfish easily setting up spikes all over its face, not to mention LO.) Not only that, but other bulky waters, like Suicune and Milotic, can takes hits and Recover stall. Finally, Ambipom is weak to some of the most common Choice Scarfers, such as Mienshio.

Another reason is Ambipom is just generally outclassed by Pokemon with better speed, power, or both. Ambipom, in general, has nothing over much of its competition except a Fake Out which can be easily absorbed by many Pokemon.
 
Nobody said Ambi is a wall breaker, it shits on offense with as frail as a lot of offensive threats are. It's also a capable revenge killer with high speed and Fake Out boosted by Technician and Life Orb.
 
With regards to moving a bunch of stuff from B-rank to C-rank, while I certainly agree with some of the moves, I feel like if we did them all we wouldn't quite have enough Pokemon B-rank or higher. Pretty much all the other Viability threads are ranked so the total number of Pokemon in B-Rank or above is slightly higher than the number of Pokemon in the tier itself. Right now we have 61 Pokemon in B or higher vs. 57 above the UU cutoff, but it can be lowered to 55 if you use 1850. koko suggested 6-9 Pokemon to drop to C rank, which puts us dangerously close to or below the ideal grouping imo. An alternative to just moving them to C is to create the Low/Mid/High divisions for B-rank (B is the only rank I think would need it atm). It would eliminate the problems people might have with Qwilfish being on the same rank as Blastoise, for example (assuming it does drop).

All of this said, I think Nidoqueen for A is still a good idea, then stuff like Swampert, Azelf, and Qwilfish could go to top B. Obviously you don't have to, but it might clean up B-rank without demoting a bunch of things that probably still deserve a B-rank of some kind (like Meloetta imo for a lot of the reasons SitB stated). Just a thought.
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Azelf lacks the pure power it needs to make an impact on the game. SPecial sets are completely picked apart by snorlax who just kills it with purusit. Mixed sets arent enough to muscle past anything it doesnt hit super effectively. Zen headbutt will muster pathetic damage aginst something like raikou, or snorlax who in turn use their superior bulk to beat you. Even when I noticed how well tailored the enemy's team is to my zelf's set It gets reduced to ashes so fast. Fighting types I might want to smack around with zen headbutt or psychic are ALWAYS fucking scarfed, water types are too bulky, many sucker punch and pursuit users exist. Having to use u-turn a lot on a pokemon thats hard to bring in is not so hot. Though it is great to take about 50% of umbreon.

Azelf cant muscle through anything with an uboosted set. Im afraid a nasty plot set will fall to snorlax, sucker punch , and the myriad of scarfs, but ive yet to try it. Top of the B rank is the best I can do, Ive managed to put some good holes in teams, catching rhyperiors with grass knots, abomasnows with fire blast, slowbro (weakened albeit) with thudnerbolt, virizion with u-turn, gligar with ice punch. The list goes, on, but at the same time ive yet to run into a single team that hasnt been able to wear azelf down, wall it, or revenge kill it without takeing too much damage. For that it is a B tier threat.
 
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Can I just say that I don't get this whole "there should be this many pokemon in this each group rank". Ranking should be on viability, not "how many Pokemon should optimally be in each rank". Arguments for demoting/promoting should be "this Pokemon is often better in these cases because..." or "this pokemon if often worse in most cases because..." or other such similar arguments. Using other tiers as comparison for how many pokes are in each rank also doesn't seem like a viable argument because the meta is different. Generally, the more balanced the meta, the more pokes there'd be in the same ranking. Hence why tiers like OU have only 3 pokes and Uber has 2, while RU and NU have 6 (if you think that OU and Uber are balanced, then lol).

If a pokemon is good, then it's good. If a pokemon is bad, then it's bad. If people determine that Poke A is suddenly not as good in practice as it was thought in theory and then is moved down, Poke B shouldn't moved up just to keep the ratio the same unless the fact that Poke A moving down has some direct connection with Poke B moving up (like A isn't actually as good as B, B can do things that outclass A in someway, or at the same time Poke B found you niches to fill).

If you feel that a group simply gets too big, then you can split it up by giving a new definition that splits the group better into 2 groups. If you feel a group is too small, then you'd have to change the definition of the small rank to include other pokemon more.

TL:DR, basically, if you aren't putting pokemon into the ranking based on the definition, then there's no point in this list in the first place.

/rant

Guess more on topic: I'm not sure how I feel about Meloetta moving down to C rank. I'm kind of 50/50 on it.

I personally really like using Meloetta (either the specs set or the subcm set, with Specs hitting most things pretty hard in the first place or using subcm to handle things that the specs set can't since specs can just be pursuit/sucker punched trapped). You can easily say that it's is generally outclassed by something like Chandlure, especially since Chandlure has generally better stab and initial power (although it's slower and less of glass cannon on the special side at least). The advantages it does have though it's that it's a physic type that's immune to Ghost type moves and that it can switch into quite a few special attackers without too much fear which lets it set up (if using SubCM). Additionally, it's Psychic typing is pretty decent offensively (takes on fighting and poison types which are fairly common in this tier) and it's one of the few Psychic types that can take on other Psychic types without as much fear since it's immune to Shadow Ball and can counter back with Shadow Ball as well.

I can see though why it'd be a possible C rank though. A Normal/Psychic typing isn't necessarily the best in this tier. The normal typing removes it's resistance from fighting type moves, which are way more common than ghost type moves in the first place and it's weak physical defense kind of compounds this. It's normal typing doesn't mitigate it's weakness to Bug and Dark moves and is generally OHKO'd by them. Additionally, it doesn't really have a reliable means of recovery. Chandlure can at least run Pain Split. It does have access to Rest, but then it's kind of useless to have that on an offensive Pokemon especially since it can't even run Sleep Talk.

I guess it comes down to, how much support does Meloetta really need to be effective? I've personally haven't found it that hard to support Meloetta, but that might just be cause of how I build my teams. What do most people find that they need to have Meloetta run effectively?
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Can someone epxlain to me what escavlier is doing up in B? Its movepool is barren, anything it runs is completely walled by any steel type. Fire types resist its stab, and easily KO it. I mean it basically cant hurt chandelier, outside of pursuit, but what use is pursuit on something that is going to switch in and outspeed. Zapdos runs it into the dirt without any trouble.

A cool pokemon, solid stats and typing, but not suited for UU I think when the highest usage pokemon, and most prominent threats have no trouble switchin in, outspeeding and OHKOing
 
Can someone epxlain to me what escavlier is doing up in B? Its movepool is barren, anything it runs is completely walled by any steel type. Fire types resist its stab, and easily KO it. I mean it basically cant hurt chandelier, outside of pursuit, but what use is pursuit on something that is going to switch in and outspeed. Zapdos runs it into the dirt without any trouble.

A cool pokemon, solid stats and typing, but not suited for UU I think when the highest usage pokemon, and most prominent threats have no trouble switchin in, outspeeding and OHKOing
Because an Adamant, CB boosted, STAB megahorn, with the further potential to get boosted by its swarm ability (plausible given that it will almost always move second and hence get knocked into swarm range) is extremely hard to wall. As you say, chandelure is one of the few pokemon who can make escavalier pay for spamming said move, but that is pretty much one of few pokemon who can claim to do so. Even fire types aren't overly safe. Darmanitan for example can actually be 1HKO'd without even needing hazards by return (only a 12% chance, but certainly KO'd after SR). Houndoom and victini are annihilated upon switch in, though arcanine with intimidate is fine to switch in. Offensive zapdos can be 1HKO'd after SR with a high damage roll by return, while other variants struggle unless a defensive variant with heat wave exists. I'm rather hard pressed to think of much else that would happily switch into escavalier, other than cobalion...well no, could be a few more, but they would be wrecked by iron head (Rhyperior, Crobat for example), or can do minimal damage back to escavalier (Hitmontop, Qwilfish).

Additionally, escavalier is one of the very few offensive pokemon who can check DD Kingdra, which is a very big plus in its favour. Hell even other variants struggle unless the kingdra in question has rain dance up, is holding a life orb, and hits you with hydro pump.

To be fair, escavalier appreicates support in the form of slow volt-turning to get it in to avoid taking unnecessary additional damage, and it would love a pokemon who can use TR on your team most of all.
 

Snaquaza

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Can someone epxlain to me what escavlier is doing up in B? Its movepool is barren, anything it runs is completely walled by any steel type. Fire types resist its stab, and easily KO it. I mean it basically cant hurt chandelier, outside of pursuit, but what use is pursuit on something that is going to switch in and outspeed. Zapdos runs it into the dirt without any trouble.

A cool pokemon, solid stats and typing, but not suited for UU I think when the highest usage pokemon, and most prominent threats have no trouble switchin in, outspeeding and OHKOing
Well it's typing lets it absorb many hits as it is only hit SE by Fire, also his Choice Band Megahorn is extremely strong, for example it OHKO's frail resists like Mienshao and Mismagius, as well as 2HKO'ing anything that doesn't resist it and still 2HKO'ing a lot that resists it.

252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 267-315 (76.06 - 89.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 135-159 (35.24 - 41.51%) -- 83.76% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Megahorn vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 90-106 (30.92 - 36.42%) -- 68.87% chance to 3HKO

So they are quite easily worn down, which makes it into an awesome wall breaker, mostly if you give it a bit of Paralysis support
 

ScraftyIsTheBest

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Yeah echoing what has just been said, Escavalier is B-Rank because it hits insanely hard, and also has good bulk. Its bulk and a slew of resistances mean Escavalier can come in on a number of things like OTR Cofagrigus, Roserade, and Weavile and the like and hitting whatever is in extremely hard. Although Escavalier has a small movepool, it makes up for that in its sheer power; that CB Megahorn is ridiculously powerful; as shown above, even some resists are not safe against it; if you plan on walling Escavalier, you're going to have to use a Pokemon that is extremely bulky, resists aren't enough. Even then however, some of the viable resists such as Registeel and Dusclops have issues regarding being worn down over time. Of course the slow speed and the fire weakness are somewhat of drawbacks, but those are only preventing it from making it into A-Rank; it's a great Pokemon in general and has perks that warrant use, but it needs a bit more support than A mons (like paralysis or Trick Room support; Slowbro or Slowking are amazing teammates for Escavalier because they can use T-Wave or Trick Room while having great offensive and defensive synergy with Escavalier).
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
I gotta say after trying escavlier im quite impressed with it's capabilities. I've been pairing it with wish support and it dies really hard. Even against cofagrigus who has huge defense and can outspeed with will-o-wisp, or zapdos who outspeeds and does some real damage with heat wave, the sheer power is overwhelming. The bulk is very impressive too, switchin in and taking 20% from roserade's leaf storm, then less than 50% from hidden power fire is brilliant. The poison immunity buys it a lot against walls that rely on toxic for damage like umbreon, gligar and registeel. I will say all the ghosts, and flying types, especially ones with 4x resists that are common like crobat and chandelure really prevented megahorn spam :-(

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uususpecttest-51231645

here's a replay of escavlier despite facing the defensive titans cofagrigus, milotic, and suicune still managing to muscle through things with wish and heal bell support, and putting pressure on the enemy. His typing lets him come in when others cant, and the damage output is no joke! Even if the third scald against milotic would have burned Megahorn would have finished it off easily thanks to swarm. Also, dont fuck with bulk up tornadus ..unless youre a zapdos or raikou.
 
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Psychotic

Banned deucer.
I forgot to update it this weekend so I'll update it today. This is gonna be a large update post.

Escavalier from B ==> C rank
Lilligant from B ==> C rank
Nidoqueen from B ==> A rank
Swampert from A ==> B rank
Galvantula from B ==> C rank
Ambipom from kokoloko ==> C rank
Azelf from A ==> B rank
Durant from B ==> C rank
Zoroark from B ==> C rank
Dusclops from Kokoloko ==> Lonelyness rank

Congratulations to Dusclops for becoming the first ever Lonelyness ranked pokemon!!!!!

I will probably remove a few mons that are not relevant at all, like Eelektross, to reduce some of the clutter.
 
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5 tiers is plenty.
With all the context behind what I'm quoting here, adding the sixth and sending Dusclops to it seems extremely contradictory. there's been a few times you've stated being against the revival and inclusion of the "E Rank", which is now appropriately named after LN (subject to change). Again, if you want to get rid of the clutter, do the tiered Rankings, even if its just + and -, and no middle. You're obviously going against the "5-tier max" you had set for the thread, so organizing it to be more accurate within the original 5 ranks, which every other tier has done to date, only makes maintaining the thread easier.

If you want the preliminary structure decided over IRC so that the top-tier players can organize it, then let's do that.
 

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