wow this is very cool i see your evidence i however also seen those pokemon drawings that were not bad something to ponder about very cool
I'm guessing Ho-oh was moved to the end of the Pokedex just so that all the legendaries could be at the end of the Pokedex. And I'm guessing that Scizor starts at 212 because that's either where they decided to tack on the pokemon they had already designed, or because they wanted to insert the "new" pokemon in front (so that the early pokemon will be at the beginning).Eh, is it just me, or is it that everything except Ho-oh is in National Dex order?
Scizor/Shuckle/Heracross are 212, 213 and 214 in the Nat Dex. This is followed by Ho-oh, who just probably got plunked in randomly, idk, because after Ho-oh came Sneasel, which was after Heracross in Nat Dex order(215). Then after Sneasel all the suspect Gen 2 Pokemon came together IN NATIONAL DEX ORDER, FROM SNEASEL TO LUGIA. Then of course you have Ho-oh plunked in randomly between Heracross and Sneasel. Then of course after Victreebel(the last Pokemon in the programming) was the National Dex order for 152-211(Chikorita-Qwilfish), then Celebi after Qwilfish thanks to 212-249, 250 being clunked up there.
I tried forcing 0x45, 0x51 and 0x7F by tampering with both RAM addresses D059 and CFD8 in Red/Blue (were you using Red/Green or Yellow?) and to me 0x45 and 0x51 used the exact same cry type, pitch and length as Golbat and Pidgey rather than any unique cry type sounding like Crobat/ an 'altered Pidgey'? But 0x7F did sound different. I don't know whether 0x7F was just a different pitch and/or cry length combined with the cry type of a real Pokémon or was indeed using an unused cry type? It would be interesting if it was.0x45 has the exact same cry as Crobat, which leads me to believe that Crobat was one of the Pokemon intended for Gold. However if you check this list, you'll see that when you trade 0x45 to Gold it's Piloswine. So no, the Missingno's "gold counterparts" are not what was intended for that slot in Red.
There are other cases of Missingnos with unique cries.
0x43: The same cry as all the other Missingnos, but has a different pitch.
0x45: Same cry as Crobat in gold, probably Crobat's ID
0x51: Unique cry, similar to Pidgey
0x5E: Unique cry, same cry ID as Dratini but pitched differently.
0x5F: Same unique cry, but lower.
0x7F: Slighty different version of Rhydon's cry.
0x89: Has EXACTLY the same cry as Dragonair, type, pitch, and length.
Further supporting my "Family" theory for 5E/5F, you'll see that 5E and 5F are in the middle of a bunch of families that follow the pattern: First stage, second stage. This also applies to 0x56/0x57 that don't have any cry data for them.
0x57: Missingno. (Possibly another family)
0x59: Dragonair (Evolution comes at an earlier ID)
0x5E: Missingno. with unique cry
0x5F: Missingno. with same unique cry except pitched lower
This tells us that two "first / second" stage families were dropped for Red and later put into Gold. Gold introduces 30 (or 0x1E) new cry types, and the only Pokemon past 151 in Gold that has a cry type from Red/Blue is Crobat and Murkrow. So basically, when the Pokemon were in Red/Blue, they had different cries.
So that's basically all I can remember/find now. I'm sure I have more information somewhere, but if you have some theories of your own let me know and I could take a look inside a first or second generation ROM and see what I can find.
I agree, additionally if we are to assume that the internal ordering of the R/B Pokémon is correct (Rhydon & Ken Sugimori interview), by Occam's Razor why should we assume the G/S Pokémon being 'squeezed' (in between real Generation I Pokémon) in their final Pokédex ordering [with the exception of Ho-Oh] is also correct? For instance, most Generation I Pokémon do not even follow in order of their evolutionary stages, though the fact that we have Slugma>Magcargo, Teddiursa>Ursaring may suggest that the 'ordering' is very much a quirk of the equivalent G/S algorithm itself and does not imply what the formatted identifiers were.I saw this theory posted on TV Tropes, so I came over here to give my two cents:
The theory about there being 190 Pokemon is almost certainly correct, especially since the GameFreak employee said it's true. I'd always kinda suspected that those Missingnos were planned-but-erased Pokemon myself, anyway.
However, the theory that the algorithm or lookup table used to translate the Pokemon into the second gen indicating what the missing Pokemon were is almost certainly wrong. Ho-Oh's name is pretty much the same in English or Japanese, so the fact that he looked confused the moment you mentioned his name says a lot; this in addition to the Crobat sound effect mentioned above. You really had no reason to assume that his response was based on a translation error that I can see. The overall theory is a good one, but don't let confirmation bias get you caught up in the details.
Tried EXACTLY that:It checks if the Pokemon being traded over has the same type(s) as the one in Gold's database. If not, it just gives you the abnormal message. Since Missningo has the unused "Bird" type, attempts to trade Missingno will always fail. Gamefreak forgot to write an exception for the Magnemite family. Try trading one of those from Red to Gold and see what happens!
You can do this and it will give you SOME SORT of gen 2 pokemon. The GSC games were designed so that the missingnos would translate into actual gen 2 pokemon that were in the game.Is it possible to use Pokemon Stadium 2 to trade these missingno's to a gen 2 game, and have them show up as the pokemon they were intended to be? I only have one usable game boy.
Also, using the old man glitch (when you're making your name to determine who you run into on the cinnibar coast), is there any way to know WHICH missingnos you'll be encountering? And can you level them up with rare candies until they go back down to level 2 (so basically, is it possible to have a level 2 missingno and trade it over to GSC and have it become a level 2 raikou or lugia or something).
I know nothing about game hacking and modifying/checking data and so forth, so that's why I ask. Sorry for the dumb questions :-).