Two-face Bronzong

CWW

Courtesy of Doug's statistics, Bronzong is currently the most popular lead in OU by a wide margin, with Azelf and Gengar trailing behind. The amount of leading Bronzongs are almost half of the total number of Bronzongs in all teams. Sassy (40.5%) and Relaxed (38.4%) are the preferred natures as a whopping 83.9% are equipped with Gyro Ball. The two other popular moves are Stealth Rock and Hypnosis with usually Explosion or Earthquake taking the last slot.

As for EVs, HP is easy: Max it. Now comes the dilemma. With an investment in Special Defense, Bronzong can survive Fire attacks from Infernape, Heatran and SpecsMence, but any form of prior damage and it will likely lose. An investment in Defense will allow Bronzong to take hits better from Weavile, Tyranitar and Metagross. CB Gross for instance can't 3HKO with Meteor Mash assuming Bronzong has Leftovers and Metagross doesn't receive a boost.

My question is: What is your preferred nature and why? Is it EV'd to resist specific attacks and to KO certain threats? Who are part of the daring 11.8% that use Heatproof? Has it worked on more than one occasion? Seeing that the current analysis lacks a proper EV spread and an explanation I have wondered about this.
 
I usually make it even - Relaxed or sassy, max hp, and then not a simple 128/128, but bring it as close as possible.


I think you are best with physical defense, as there are better special walls (like Blissey), and the other physical walls have massive problems with various things (Gliscor with HP Ice Lucario, Skarmory with the high use of Thunder and fire blast and healing, etc).
 
I used heatproof on my Trick Room team with a lead bronzong. It worked really well. I either had time to set up Trick room as they attacked, taking ~40% from Infernape, then attacked back with Earthquake for about 80%, or I used trick room as they swtiched in, and got to 2HKO w/ EQ and only take ~40% from Infernape.
 
I'm surprised more people don't use Heatproof.

I use a Sand Veil Dugtrio myself, and everyone who plays against me thinks that it's an Arena Trap Dugtrio, so they don't even try to switch out while he's on the field. However, if they did try, they would find out they were free to switch.

Heatproof Bronzong is even less risky. There's no way to "check" without potentially wasting a turn, and since most people use Levitate Bronzong I would imagine that until Bronzong runs into a fire move, it wouldn't become a problem.

People usually aren't too cautious with those types of abilities. When they see a Bronzong they think Levitate, when they see a Dugtrio they think Arena Trap. A smart trainer can take advantage of this and gain the abilities of the other nature. In addition, in my case Sand Veil isn't that noticable if they use an attack that's 100% accuracy >
 
Heatproof Bronzong is even less risky. There's no way to "check" without potentially wasting a turn, and since most people use Levitate Bronzong I would imagine that until Bronzong runs into a fire move, it wouldn't become a problem.
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One thing to note about heatproof bronzong is that it can be hurt by spikes, so if those are on the field anybody paying attention would know it did not have levitate.
 
The problem is that you can't switch a heatproof Bronzong into a predicted EQ (and you can't switch either into a fire attack).

As for EV's, mine are about split but I may be redoing the EVs soon after I research it a little bit more.
 
Sassy on zong lead. That way i can survive a fire attack from the heatran or w/e they just brought in and EQ.

Heatproof can definitely work on a suicude zong lead but Levitate is a thousand times better in every other scenario.
 
I use mine to absorb physical hits from Metagross, Tyranitar, Garchomp, Weavile, and Staraptor, so it has mad Defense and it's Relaxed. I'm pretty sure a little Sp Def EVs may help against some mixed TTar and Garchomp's set without hindering too much of its Defensive capabilities however. It may even help me survive some random Psychic Pokemon's, Gengar, SpecsLucario, or P-Z hits better =d.
 
Arcaseven said:
I'm surprised more people don't use Heatproof.

I use a Sand Veil Dugtrio myself, and everyone who plays against me thinks that it's an Arena Trap Dugtrio, so they don't even try to switch out while he's on the field. However, if they did try, they would find out they were free to switch.

Heatproof Bronzong is even less risky. There's no way to "check" without potentially wasting a turn, and since most people use Levitate Bronzong I would imagine that until Bronzong runs into a fire move, it wouldn't become a problem.

People usually aren't too cautious with those types of abilities. When they see a Bronzong they think Levitate, when they see a Dugtrio they think Arena Trap. A smart trainer can take advantage of this and gain the abilities of the other nature. In addition, in my case Sand Veil isn't that noticable if they use an attack that's 100% accuracy >
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However, in Dugtrio's case, one ability is clearly more useful than the other. Dugtrio should not be trying to dodge attacks, as it should not be in the position where it should have to take one.
 
Heatproof Bronzong's main flaw unlike other "gimmick Pokémon" is that if you switch into Spikes, the surprise is ruined. Also, have fun not being able to ever switch in directly on Earthquakes. I guess if you're running a lead just to get Stealth Rock out on Turn 1, then Heatproof makes sense, but otherwise it seems all but pointless to me. Which would you rather have, Spikes and Earthquake immunity or neutrality to Fire?
 
It depends on the team. If you already have a special wall, make 'Zong a physical. If your team is really weak to Fire attacks, get him Heatproof and vice-versa.
 
Forgot about the Spikes thing.

Does Heatproof provide significant resistance to fire attacks for it to be useful?

Syberia said:
However, in Dugtrio's case, one ability is clearly more useful than the other. Dugtrio should not be trying to dodge attacks, as it should not be in the position where it should have to take one.
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It's more of an emergency thing. For example, if Dugtrio is my last Pokemon, or if for some reason I can't switch out. The "faux" Arena Trap allows Dugtrio to use a potentially more useful ability - mind you, "potentially" - over an ability that people rarely, if ever, check for.
 
Arcaseven said:
Forgot about the Spikes thing.

Does Heatproof provide significant resistance to fire attacks for it to be useful?



It's more of an emergency thing. For example, if Dugtrio is my last Pokemon, or if for some reason I can't switch out. The "faux" Arena Trap allows Dugtrio to use a potentially more useful ability - mind you, "potentially" - over an ability that people rarely, if ever, check for.
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I always check for it, particularly on Shoddy because plenty of people, myself included, will often forget to set the right ability. And just because checking doesn't do any harm.

Bear in mind that Dugtrio doesn't really have the raw offense to abuse Sand Veil, and missing Dugtrio will very rarely make a difference. As soon as people's 100% accurate moves start missing, your surprise is up and your Dugtrio is as good as deadweight.
 
dugtrio has a paltry 80 base attack. the only reason people use him is arena trap. that's the ONLY reason. if he didn't get it, he'd probably be in UU, or at least not in OU. feigning arena trap is stupid, as you shouldn't be relying on sand veil anyways. as that syberia quote says, duggy shouldn't be in a position where he's gonna get hit.
 
I believe I used Bold, using CM/Shadow Ball/Psychic/HP Ice. I had Shadow Ball over Grass Knot, since a common switch-in was Cresselia, which would die to a few CMed Shadow Balls.

Yeah, I used CM Zong.
 
Wichu said:
I believe I used Bold, using CM/Shadow Ball/Psychic/HP Ice. I had Shadow Ball over Grass Knot, since a common switch-in was Cresselia, which would die to a few CMed Shadow Balls.

Yeah, I used CM Zong.
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lol, same :p I had quite a lot of success with a Calm Mind/Flash Cannon/Rest/Sleep Talk variant, which won me several games I wouldn't have stood a chance in otherwise.
 
Evil Hamster said:
lol, same :p I had quite a lot of success with a Calm Mind/Flash Cannon/Rest/Sleep Talk variant, which won me several games I wouldn't have stood a chance in otherwise.
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I believe I also used a similar set, but with Psychic over Flash Cannon. It's crazily difficult to take down after all Darks are gone.
 
Arcaseven said:
I'm surprised more people don't use Heatproof.

I use a Sand Veil Dugtrio myself, and everyone who plays against me thinks that it's an Arena Trap Dugtrio, so they don't even try to switch out while he's on the field. However, if they did try, they would find out they were free to switch.

Heatproof Bronzong is even less risky. There's no way to "check" without potentially wasting a turn, and since most people use Levitate Bronzong I would imagine that until Bronzong runs into a fire move, it wouldn't become a problem.

People usually aren't too cautious with those types of abilities. When they see a Bronzong they think Levitate, when they see a Dugtrio they think Arena Trap. A smart trainer can take advantage of this and gain the abilities of the other nature. In addition, in my case Sand Veil isn't that noticable if they use an attack that's 100% accuracy >
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Well Heatproof isn't used for plenty of reasons. First of all, it allows you to switch into Garchomp without fear, and only the occasional Fire Blast or SD Fire Fang is going to hurt. It also allows you to switch in when Spikes are up, and once the opponent sees your Bronzong being hurt by Spikes, prepare for the spamming of EQ.

Levitate is possibly one of the most useful abilities, as it allows things to be immune to Spikes AND Toxic Spikes while at the same time resisting Stealth Rock. Levitate also gives Bronzong a way to switch into the ever common Edgequake combo without fear.

I don't think I would ever find Heatproof more useful than Levitate, unless I switch in my Bronzong on Garchomp after it killed something, which still wouldn't help at all since it would Fire Blast, see the crap damage, then it would EQ, while I wouldn't even OHKO with Gyro Ball. There is no reason to specialize Bronzong in such a way where it isn't a definitive tank anymore.

Umm Dugtrio would be in NU or in the depths of UU without Arena Trap. Sure, it is the fastest ground, but it would still be outclassed by Sandslash. Nidoking, Steelix, Golem, Marowak, and even Quagsire. All of those pokemon have much higher attack stats, and they don't require massive investment into attack, thus allowing them to pour into defenses. They also don't really need a CB to hit harder than Dugtrio, with the exception of Quagsire and Steelix, who are supposed to tank hits/set up Stealth Rock anyways.
 
well, edge-quake isn't nearly as popular as it's been in past generations . . . because of bronzong. >.>

same thing standing in the way of mamo's ice-ground combo . . .
 
ChouToshio said:
well, edge-quake isn't nearly as popular as it's been in past generations . . . because of bronzong. >.>

same thing standing in the way of mamo's ice-ground combo . . .
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My biggest problem with Heatproof is I don't have the luxury of switching into Mamoswine or Garchomp, because Levitate is absent.
 
ChouToshio said:
well, edge-quake isn't nearly as popular as it's been in past generations . . . because of bronzong. >.>

same thing standing in the way of mamo's ice-ground combo . . .
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That's why I use Magnezone along with Mamoswine.

If Heatproof gave an immunity to fire, you'd probably see about 50/50, and people would never know what to hit Bronzong with.
 
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