If so, why should it be?
Also, are you going to finish the Teammates and counters? They can't stay in bullet form, and they technically aren't "the same" as additional comments.
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Tyranitar (Analysis)
- Thread starter Ray Jay
- Start date
If so, why should it be?
Also, are you going to finish the Teammates and counters? They can't stay in bullet form, and they technically aren't "the same" as additional comments.
Well because its amazing in this metagame. It also makes a fantastic wall breaker and Doryuuzu partner, weakening and luring many of the things that halt a Dory sweep, namely ground types. A wonderful example of this is Gliscor.
Tyranitar @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
Naive / Hasty Nature
56 Atk / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd
- Crunch
- SuperPower / Stone Edge
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
There are many ev spreads, some people like bulkier or slower but i personally like outspeeding min Gliscor which is rather common at the moment.
Also agreeing with that SR lead MixTar (SR/Ice Beam/Fire Blast/Crunch or Stone Edge or SuperPower, ive seen all of them occupy the last slot) which is good for the same aforementioned reasons (luring) and again makes an awesome partner to many Pokemon and is just a generally great way to start the game off on SS teams as it also beats many leads.
Okay, here's what I'm thinking.
-Mixed definitely deserves a mention - in fact, it deserves the very first mention due to its dominance.
name: MixTar
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
-mention of a faster, sweeper-oriented spread of 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
---Hasty (lets it utilize its sand boosted Special Defense better)
---Naive (lets it survive physical attacks such as Scizor Bullet Punch)
-mention Chople Berry which lets it survive/ take less damage from stuff like Tyranitar/Deoxys-S Superpower, Birijion/Rankurusu Focus Blast, and if you're really lucky, Terakion Close Combat (but don't count on it)
-mention Balloon, which lets it check Landlos / Gliscor in emergencies
-I think Pursuit is good enough to warrant its own set, but it could, I suppose, be squeezed into the aforementioned set.
name: Special Defensive (Physical)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-mention Ice Beam for Gliscor / Landlos
-mention Thunder Wave
-mention Chople Berry / Balloon
-adamant lets it 2HKO max HP / max Def LO Rankurusu but there might be a better spread
-Put BOAH next: Sub aids it in beating just about all of its checks that rely more on resistances than pure defense
-finally scarf and CB
-drop LeadTar, which was basically replaced by the first set, and lure, which was also basically replaced by the first set
So basically, the sets should be ordered like this:
-MixTar
-Special Defensive (Physical)
-BOAH
-Scarf
-Choice Band
My two cents.
-Mixed definitely deserves a mention - in fact, it deserves the very first mention due to its dominance.
name: MixTar
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
-mention of a faster, sweeper-oriented spread of 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
---Hasty (lets it utilize its sand boosted Special Defense better)
---Naive (lets it survive physical attacks such as Scizor Bullet Punch)
-mention Chople Berry which lets it survive/ take less damage from stuff like Tyranitar/Deoxys-S Superpower, Birijion/Rankurusu Focus Blast, and if you're really lucky, Terakion Close Combat (but don't count on it)
-mention Balloon, which lets it check Landlos / Gliscor in emergencies
-I think Pursuit is good enough to warrant its own set, but it could, I suppose, be squeezed into the aforementioned set.
name: Special Defensive (Physical)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Pursuit
move 4: Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
-mention Ice Beam for Gliscor / Landlos
-mention Thunder Wave
-mention Chople Berry / Balloon
-adamant lets it 2HKO max HP / max Def LO Rankurusu but there might be a better spread
-Put BOAH next: Sub aids it in beating just about all of its checks that rely more on resistances than pure defense
-finally scarf and CB
-drop LeadTar, which was basically replaced by the first set, and lure, which was also basically replaced by the first set
So basically, the sets should be ordered like this:
-MixTar
-Special Defensive (Physical)
-BOAH
-Scarf
-Choice Band
My two cents.
Eo Ut Mortus said:
Interesting set, and if it's effective for a specific time, that's good. I feel, however, that this Tyranitar's trying to do so many things at the same time, with the moves and the EV investment and all. I think the set should go along like zis:
name: Specially Defensive
move 1: Pursuit / Dragon Tail
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Ice Beam / Fire Blast
move 4: Dragon Tail / Stealth Rock
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def
ivs: 0 Speed (To take Nattorei Gyro Ball better)
Basically, Pursuit or Dragon Tail; your choice. If you really want to screw up momentum and damage the switch-in, Dragon Tail. it also takes advantage of entry hazards and Tyranitar's own Stealth Rocks. Pursuit is there to counter Ghosts and Psychics (especially Lati@s), obviously.
Ice Beam, assuming Gliscor doesn't invest in Special Defense, will do 94% minimum to it, and it will KO once Gliscor has taken Stealth Rocks or prior damage. Lure it with Crunch, then hit with Ice Beam.
And yeah, Dragon tail + Stealth Rocks is good, but you don't have to go with that combination if you already have Stealth Rock support.
EDIT: Also, the Stealth Rocks comment goes for MixTar as well. Don't run it if you already have a guy for that. As for Fire Blast, it doesn't quite KO specially defensive Skarmory or Nattorei, but it's nice. Not sure about Super power because it's technically weak.
I would definitely give Expert Belt a mention on the Mixed set (maybe over leftovers), as it's goal is to hit things super effectively. A 1.2x power boost gives a near-LO powered boost without recoil, and you're going to hit most things SE, too. Mixtar isn't very powerful (it's not weak, but a 100 Base SpA isn't great), so a drawback-free power boost on well-predicted hits could help it.
Also, why Fire Blast over Flamethrower? Are there certain kills that Flamethrower misses over Fire Blast even with an Expert Belt boost? Flamethrower's more reliable and has more PP, and Tyranitar cannot afford to miss against things like Doryuzu. I would recommend:
Tyranitar @ Expert Belt- Sand Stream
Naive, 56 Atk, 252 SpA, 200 Spd
-Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Crunch
-Superpower
Also, on the Choice Band set, I would make Earthquake the primary option over Aqua Tail, but that's a nitpick. EQ's more powerful, accurate, and rounds off the EdgeQuake combo, and what does Aqua Tail hit that would make it primary.
Also, this might be getting a little crazy, but maybe mention a set of Earthquake/Pursuit/Superpower/Stone Edge on ScarfTar? It can surprise an opponent who thinks they don't have to worry about Superpower/EQ after the other's been used.
Also, why Fire Blast over Flamethrower? Are there certain kills that Flamethrower misses over Fire Blast even with an Expert Belt boost? Flamethrower's more reliable and has more PP, and Tyranitar cannot afford to miss against things like Doryuzu. I would recommend:
Tyranitar @ Expert Belt- Sand Stream
Naive, 56 Atk, 252 SpA, 200 Spd
-Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Crunch
-Superpower
Also, on the Choice Band set, I would make Earthquake the primary option over Aqua Tail, but that's a nitpick. EQ's more powerful, accurate, and rounds off the EdgeQuake combo, and what does Aqua Tail hit that would make it primary.
Also, this might be getting a little crazy, but maybe mention a set of Earthquake/Pursuit/Superpower/Stone Edge on ScarfTar? It can surprise an opponent who thinks they don't have to worry about Superpower/EQ after the other's been used.
I was going to give Expert Belt a good mention in the Mixtar set because the power boost is welcome and it can bluff a Choice Scarf to easily lure in the targets of the rest of Tyranitars moves. Fire Blast is the choice over Flamethrower because Tyranitar needs all the power he can get behind those moves to leave a lasting mark in the targets. And Tyranitar is much better off using Superpower against Doryuuzu then Fire Blast.
Edit:
Aqua Tail hits the Balloon users who are weak to Water (basically all of them), and doesn't allow Landorus to just come in and set up all over you like Earthquake and Superpower would.
Please use prefixes in the future. Also, you should not write up your analysis before it is QC approved, as they may demand changes to the sets that waste your effort.
Yeah, was going to put up a skeleton and fix this all up after I was done writing up Landorus.
Edit: Aerodactyl@ Hey, don't ask me why the orignal poster had Scarf as the first set.
I'm also wondering why the "unorthodox" Scarf set is first. Latias may be around, but so are many other threats that Tyranitar has to worry about that a Choice Scarf won't help in taking them on. Pretty obvious that the most common set is the Stealth Rock lead. That should be first unless any lures prove to be better. Boah is always nice. So is the Choice Band. They all should have priority above the Scarf which, in my opinion, should actually be in OC.
I think the ordering of the sets are all wrong. Choice Scarf shouldn't be anywhere near the top because it isn't really that effective in this metagame. Its alright, but there better ways of taking out Lati@s.
I think the lead set (it should be called mixed) should be the first set because its extremely effective in this metagame and its very common. You should change the EV's & nature to 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD with a Sassy nature. Max HP / Max SpD should probably get a mention in AC for the ability to take heavy Special hits.
The choice band set should be next with 252 HP / 36 atk / 220 SpD with an Adamant nature. The EV spread you used is largely outdated, due to rarity of Suicune. (sure you 2HKO skarm, but being able to counter Lati@s more effectively is more important) This allows Tyranitar to switch into nearly anything Specs Latios throws at him and pursuit him for an OHKO (or heavy damage if he stays in). Even if Latios stays in, he can't 2HKO with anything (Surf barely misses the 2HKO)
I guess Boah and Lure go next (Lure should use more SpD) but to be honest I haven't really used those sets.
I think the lead set (it should be called mixed) should be the first set because its extremely effective in this metagame and its very common. You should change the EV's & nature to 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD with a Sassy nature. Max HP / Max SpD should probably get a mention in AC for the ability to take heavy Special hits.
The choice band set should be next with 252 HP / 36 atk / 220 SpD with an Adamant nature. The EV spread you used is largely outdated, due to rarity of Suicune. (sure you 2HKO skarm, but being able to counter Lati@s more effectively is more important) This allows Tyranitar to switch into nearly anything Specs Latios throws at him and pursuit him for an OHKO (or heavy damage if he stays in). Even if Latios stays in, he can't 2HKO with anything (Surf barely misses the 2HKO)
I guess Boah and Lure go next (Lure should use more SpD) but to be honest I haven't really used those sets.
Implement these changes and you have my stamp.
Err, your set is trying to do more than mine if you consider the numerous slashes and the fact that it's basically what I said except you threw in Dragon Tail and Fire Blast. I mentioned Ice Beam in set comments. Dragon Tail is not that good considering Tyranitar already suffers from four moveslot syndrome, doesn't get STAB on it, and it has redundant coverage with the more useful Ice Beam / Crunch. It deserves a mention in Optional Changes at best, in my opinion. As for Fire Blast, I'm fine with that either slashed with Superpower or in set comments.
As for the Sassy nature and 0 Spe IVs, I'd rather not be slower than opposing Tyranitar than take less from Gyro Ball (there's still Power Whip anyway)
Also posting to say that I changed the nature on the special defensive set to Careful, which is more appropriate.
This is what I've been using:
name: MixTar
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Superpower / Ice Beam / Pursuit
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry / Expert Belt.
nature: Sassy / Brave
evs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Heres the deal, you want -Speed nature on this thing to get the most out of your distribution regardless of the large speed investment. Tyranitar wants to outspeed Scizor so they dont U-turn. This also outspeeds Skarm and possibly Jellicent depending on their spread. Sassy is best with Superpower / Ice Beam. You really don't need any attack investment since your coverage does the trick on what you need to hit, and expert belt is a good option. 96 EVs is a jump point. If you want to use Crunch AND Pursuit, your a good check for Latios after its killed something, go Brave to make your attacks stronger and put those 96 EVs into attack. I don't really see what all the Special Attack is for, you still are 2HKOing Skarm and Natty and OHKOing Forretress and Gliscor so yeah...?
name: MixTar
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Superpower / Ice Beam / Pursuit
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry / Expert Belt.
nature: Sassy / Brave
evs: 252 HP / 96 SpD / 160 Spe
Heres the deal, you want -Speed nature on this thing to get the most out of your distribution regardless of the large speed investment. Tyranitar wants to outspeed Scizor so they dont U-turn. This also outspeeds Skarm and possibly Jellicent depending on their spread. Sassy is best with Superpower / Ice Beam. You really don't need any attack investment since your coverage does the trick on what you need to hit, and expert belt is a good option. 96 EVs is a jump point. If you want to use Crunch AND Pursuit, your a good check for Latios after its killed something, go Brave to make your attacks stronger and put those 96 EVs into attack. I don't really see what all the Special Attack is for, you still are 2HKOing Skarm and Natty and OHKOing Forretress and Gliscor so yeah...?
TTar has so many options. I don't expect this set to make it into the analysis, but I'm posting it to give more ideas as to what it can do
name: MixTar (errr)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Fire Blast / Dragon Tail / Stone Edge / Ice Beam / Pursuit / whatever
item: Chople Berry / Leftovers
nature: Brave / Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spe / 252 SpD
Though Chople Berry won't save you from Fighting Pokemon, there are a lot of other things in the metagame that utilize strong Fighting attacks. Deoxys-S' Superpower (and it will look for opportunities to surprise you with it), Reuniclus' Focus Blast, Thundurus/Tornadus' Focus Blast, Tyranitar's Superpower, etc. I don't really like using Chople due to the recovery lost but it comes in handy many times. Low Kick over Superpower because the only thing you'd be hitting harder are Doryuuzu/Blissey anyways, and neither are too difficult to stop. Superpower's attack/defense drops can be quite annoying sometimes. Last move I guess is pretty much whatever. Fire Blast to fry Skarm/Forry/Ferro, Dragon Tail to mess Gorebyss, Stone Edge for the genies, Ice Beam for Gliscor/Chomp/Landorus, Pursuit helps with Lati@s quite a bit if you don't have Lefties as you probably don't want them wearing your team down a lot.
name: MixTar (errr)
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Crunch
move 3: Low Kick
move 4: Fire Blast / Dragon Tail / Stone Edge / Ice Beam / Pursuit / whatever
item: Chople Berry / Leftovers
nature: Brave / Adamant
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spe / 252 SpD
Though Chople Berry won't save you from Fighting Pokemon, there are a lot of other things in the metagame that utilize strong Fighting attacks. Deoxys-S' Superpower (and it will look for opportunities to surprise you with it), Reuniclus' Focus Blast, Thundurus/Tornadus' Focus Blast, Tyranitar's Superpower, etc. I don't really like using Chople due to the recovery lost but it comes in handy many times. Low Kick over Superpower because the only thing you'd be hitting harder are Doryuuzu/Blissey anyways, and neither are too difficult to stop. Superpower's attack/defense drops can be quite annoying sometimes. Last move I guess is pretty much whatever. Fire Blast to fry Skarm/Forry/Ferro, Dragon Tail to mess Gorebyss, Stone Edge for the genies, Ice Beam for Gliscor/Chomp/Landorus, Pursuit helps with Lati@s quite a bit if you don't have Lefties as you probably don't want them wearing your team down a lot.
Nice analysis so far Berserker Lord.
Bloo and I talked it over and decided that the "Mixed" and "SpDef" set are practically the same, or at least they should be, so we're going to combine them. This is what the set should look like:
Now I also reccomend adding a Dragon Dance set. It isn't Tar's best set this generation by a long shot, but it's far from unusable. It should probably look like this:
Bloo and I are still unsure of what to do with the Offensive Mixed and TyraniBoah sets, so we'll get back to you on that.
EDIT: Oh yeah Curse might be viable... We'll discuss that as well.
Bloo and I talked it over and decided that the "Mixed" and "SpDef" set are practically the same, or at least they should be, so we're going to combine them. This is what the set should look like:
name: Specially Defensive (Mixed)
move 1: Crunch / Pursuit
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
You want to maximize Tyranitar's Special bulk to take as many hits as possible from the likes of Latios, Ulgamoth, etc. Also mention an alternative EV spread - as provided by Eo - of 252 HP / 180 SpAtk / 76 SpDef in the AC for a set with more offensive power on the special side. The extra EVs provide Tyranitar enough muscle to 2HKO even Specially Defensive Skarmory (the physically defensive set is 2HKOed without SpAtk investment), as well as doing more damage to Nattorei with Fire Blast and always OHKOing Garchomp, Gliscor, and some Dragonite (after SR) with Ice Beam. However, mention that if you're using Superpower you shouldn't be running that much SpAtk.
move 1: Crunch / Pursuit
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Ice Beam / Superpower
item: Leftovers
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 SpDef
You want to maximize Tyranitar's Special bulk to take as many hits as possible from the likes of Latios, Ulgamoth, etc. Also mention an alternative EV spread - as provided by Eo - of 252 HP / 180 SpAtk / 76 SpDef in the AC for a set with more offensive power on the special side. The extra EVs provide Tyranitar enough muscle to 2HKO even Specially Defensive Skarmory (the physically defensive set is 2HKOed without SpAtk investment), as well as doing more damage to Nattorei with Fire Blast and always OHKOing Garchomp, Gliscor, and some Dragonite (after SR) with Ice Beam. However, mention that if you're using Superpower you shouldn't be running that much SpAtk.
Now I also reccomend adding a Dragon Dance set. It isn't Tar's best set this generation by a long shot, but it's far from unusable. It should probably look like this:
name: Dragon Dance
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Fire Punch / Aqua Tail / Ice Punch
item: Balloon / Lum Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Mention Earthquake and Taunt in the AC in slot 4. Also mention Babiri Berry, Chople Berry, and Leftovers in the Additional Comments as other item options. Balloon helps Tyranitar set up on Pokemon such as Randorosu, Doryuzzu, and Gliscor; Lum Berry allows Tyranitar to not get wrecked by a stray burn or paralysis; Life Orb grants you a ton of extra power that is particularly helpful against stall teams.
move 1: Dragon Dance
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Crunch
move 4: Fire Punch / Aqua Tail / Ice Punch
item: Balloon / Lum Berry / Life Orb
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Mention Earthquake and Taunt in the AC in slot 4. Also mention Babiri Berry, Chople Berry, and Leftovers in the Additional Comments as other item options. Balloon helps Tyranitar set up on Pokemon such as Randorosu, Doryuzzu, and Gliscor; Lum Berry allows Tyranitar to not get wrecked by a stray burn or paralysis; Life Orb grants you a ton of extra power that is particularly helpful against stall teams.
Bloo and I are still unsure of what to do with the Offensive Mixed and TyraniBoah sets, so we'll get back to you on that.
EDIT: Oh yeah Curse might be viable... We'll discuss that as well.
Please keep Tyraniboah. Many people have no idea how much this thing decimates defensive Pokemon in general. Tyranitar can easily do a spit-take on Latios' Draco Meteor and Substitute upon switching out. Once Tar is behind the Substitute, it has the potential to put the hurt on Chansey, Blissey, Jellivent, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Latias, Latios, and Skarmory when put into play. With so many of them common, BOAH and Specially Defensive are never short of effective unless you're against a dedicated counter like Conkeldurr and Quagsire. BOAH has forced nicely in my opinion.
Mention Dugtrio as a threat to watch for. Playtesting with Dugtrio made me realize how amazing it really is at disposing of Tyranitar with only slight damage (which can happen through Life Orb, Stealth Rock, etc). Copied from my analysis...
Jolly Choice Band Earthquake vs. 252/0 Neutral Tyranitar 80.94% - 95.79%
Jolly Life Orb Earthquake vs. 252/0 Neutral Tyranitar 70.54% - 82.43%
Jolly Choice Band Earthquake vs. 4/0 Neutral Tyranitar 95.61% - 113.16% (74.35% OHKO)
Jolly Life Orb Earthquake vs. 4/0 Neutral Tyranitar 83.33% - 97.37%
-Zane
Jolly Choice Band Earthquake vs. 252/0 Neutral Tyranitar 80.94% - 95.79%
Jolly Life Orb Earthquake vs. 252/0 Neutral Tyranitar 70.54% - 82.43%
Jolly Choice Band Earthquake vs. 4/0 Neutral Tyranitar 95.61% - 113.16% (74.35% OHKO)
Jolly Life Orb Earthquake vs. 4/0 Neutral Tyranitar 83.33% - 97.37%
-Zane
Posting to say that after some discussion, the QC team decided that leaving the Mixed and Special Defensive sets separate is preferable to merging them, so keep them as two different sets.
Aqua Tail enables Tyranitar to super effectively hit Gliscor and Hippowdom for 2HKO's, and you wouldn't be surprised at how consistent of threats they are on the current metagame to use Aqua Tail. Really, Earthquake is a bit redundant when multiple other physical threats can run an attacking combo set with Earthquake, and Aqua Tail's damage to opposing Tyranitar is only negligible.