Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers

[Laurel]

Lol Chaos made Smogon, he can do whatever he wants.

 

[Thorhammer]

Lol Chaos made Smogon, he can do whatever he wants.

To be fair, that kind of IS the definition of a dictatorship.

Not that it seems to be a problem in this case.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

That didn't even happen in the end, so your argument is pretty invalid. (And if it did, the same can be done in an aristocracy.)

Also, a dictatorship is only 1 person controlling everything, which I can tell you is not the case. It is definitely an aristocracy.

A dictatorship can be a group of people, but commonly identified as a single person.

 

[LeoLancaster]

A dictatorship can be a group of people, but commonly identified as a single person.

pretty sure that's called an oligarchy

on topic: this decision makes me want to play Ubers. I'm glad that the philosophical issues around bans from Ubers have basically been solved. Not really much else to say, I guess.

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

I feel like all the Shadow Tag Strife basically foreShadowed (eh...eh...?) this transition.

Now I won't be surprised is Shadow Tag itself gets kicked up into AG sometime in the future. It seemed clear to me that most good players could agree that Shadow Tag was unhealthy from a metagame standpoint but that not everyone could get on board with the mentality of treating Ubers as a tier or with removing a Pokemon form from all formats. AG maintains that ban-list mentality in a new place and takes away both those old concerns.

 

[LeoLancaster]

I feel like all the Shadow Tag Strife basically foreShadowed (eh...eh...?) this transition.

Now I won't be surprised is Shadow Tag itself gets kicked up into AG sometime in the future. It seemed clear to me that most good players could agree that Shadow Tag was unhealthy from a metagame standpoint but that not everyone could get on board with the mentality of treating Ubers as a tier or with removing a Pokemon form from all formats. AG maintains that ban-list mentality in a new place and takes away both those old concerns.

If Shadow Tag was banned from Ubers, would it also therefore be banned from all lower tiers? (Similarly to how UU Drought ban affects lower tiers.)

Similarly, if Gothitelle was banned from Ubers (unlikely from what I've read, but with the new philosophy it's possible if STag was considered a problem on Goth/Gar but not Wobbuffet) would it be banned from all lower tiers?

 

[Thorhammer]

If Shadow Tag was banned from Ubers, would it also therefore be banned from all lower tiers? (Similarly to how UU Drought ban affects lower tiers.)

Similarly, if Gothitelle was banned from Ubers (unlikely from what I've read, but with the new philosophy it's possible if STag was considered a problem on Goth/Gar but not Wobbuffet) would it be banned from all lower tiers?

Philosophically, it would. But the fact that stuff can be banned from Ubers in the form of AG rather than just clauses means that if Mega Gengar were to be that big of an issue, it could be banned alone rather than messing with other Shadow Tag users.

Hopefully this will not turn into too much ban-happiness along those lines, though.

 

[LeoLancaster]

Philosophically, it would. But the fact that stuff can be banned from Ubers in the form of AG rather than just clauses means that if Mega Gengar were to be that big of an issue, it could be banned alone rather than messing with other Shadow Tag users.

I know, but from what I've read a lot of people consider Goth uncompetitive as well. Hence why I'm asking.

 

[Thorhammer]

I know, but from what I've read a lot of people consider Goth uncompetitive as well. Hence why I'm asking.

I imagine any decisions on that account would not be made on the Ubers level, at least not at first. Hopefully.

 

[CaptButterToast]

CaptButterToast, you are my hero.

<3

 

[9 Tales of Ninetales]

I imagine any decisions on that account would not be made on the Ubers level, at least not at first. Hopefully.

I get what your saying. basically, Shadow tag abusers are more or less unhealthy depending on the user itself and the environment.

So basically you would hope that the decision to remove Shadow from Ubers would be on a case by case basis and a tier by tier basis rather than a sweeping clause that hurts some more innocent bystanders (Wobb or OU Goth)

I don't really know how it'll work out I was just looking ahead and seeing some of the Ubers rules getting a little stricter now that AG is around.

 

[SparksBlade]

shadow tag stayed, we got a new happy-go-lucky meta, let's stick to that rather dwelling to unnecessary past stuff, nobody loves history

 

[Becks]

wow. great. i guess that'll give you a nice excuse to eventually ban stag from ubers, ignoring the majority of the players that cared.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

pretty sure that's called an oligarchy

on topic: this decision makes me want to play Ubers. I'm glad that the philosophical issues around bans from Ubers have basically been solved. Not really much else to say, I guess.

Take Mexico's PRI and China's Communist Party into consideration. Both groups were and are, respectively, classified as dictatorships.

 

[DeathIncarnate501]

.. well this is interesting. Definitely, with the previous ubers philosophy, this would have been highly inappropriate. I think that creating AG is a realistic solution that will probably piss off just enough people.

So the question which is currently only partiall answered is what would be suitable criteria for banning in ubers?

We do for sure have to see how it develops, but as a tournament metagame i would have banned geomancy/shadow tag/evasionpass in some form. In a metagame with ubers' previous philosophy, I'd probably not suspect evasionpass or geomancy even. So, whilst ubers is a tournament metagame, how ridiculous are things going to have to be to be removed? Fireburn (not sure if you can answer this yet but if you can I'd be interested to hear), in the previous ubers metagame, with the current ubers philosophy (I'm assuming you've discussed with chaos) would you have banned or suspected any of shadow tag, gengarite, geomancy, any element comprising in evasionpass?

Geomancy doesn't need a ban. I carry around a Wailord with Clear Smog, Scald, and Heavy Slam specifically to defeat Power Herb Xerneas.

 

[Disaster Area]

Geomancy doesn't need a ban. I carry around a Wailord with Clear Smog, Scald, and Heavy Slam specifically to defeat Power Herb Xerneas.

I'll have to use that set in SPL o.o (well, use it for playtesting)

 

[scodic]

AG should be used to teach children about the importance of smogon

 

[deleted user 21478691]

So we set up a baton pass chain to mega Rayquaza...

 

[BrellowBran]

Evasion Moody Pass in Action
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/anythinggoes-188395062

 

[Lady Vader]

shadow tag stayed, we got a new happy-go-lucky meta, let's stick to that rather dwelling to unnecessary past stuff, nobody loves history

Exactly. I mean, where else are you going to see a team of six Scrappy FEAR Taillow?

 

[devil fox]

Does anything go tier mean a pokemon can have moves it normally cant or you can have any pokemon regardless of what tier they are in?

 

[Karxrida]

Does anything go tier mean a pokemon can have moves it normally cant or you can have any pokemon regardless of what tier they are in?

It still needs to be able to be obtained legitimately, so no Icicle Crash Kyurem-B for you.

 

[devil fox]

It still needs to be able to be obtained legitimately, so no Icicle Crash Kyurem-B for you.

Thanks and how did you know i was going to give my Kyurem-B Icicle Crash?

 

[Eonic Hope]

No, I get that. That's why I worded it "resulting in" rather than "to," but I guess that didn't work. I don't even know if Game Freak knows Smogon exists. But they might because it may be allowed in Nintendo tournaments like VGC 2010, where you could use 2 normally unallowed pokemon (e.g. Kyogre and Giratina), and I know there are a few tournaments coming up that will do the same. Also, they did change the HA of Chandelure from Shadow Tag to Infiltrator (even though Shadow Tag was never released).
And Mega Arceus? No. Mega Dialga/Palkia? I don't know. Just saying. Game Freak does change stuff between generations, some which are major.

Mega Dialga?
Its Primal Dialga for sure; Pmd2 confirmed that... unless my theory is true...

 

[Eonic Hope]

just to have some smogon-ness well cos we want results from pokemon battles, not from "who can stay and fuck about longer"

Well...
If you get endless battled in AG
You honestly, deserve it.