Metagame Ubers Metagame and Set Discussion v1 - Uncharted Territory

[InChandyWeTrust]

Serious question: How do you guys beat Miraidon? Pretty much every time I see one, I die a little inside because I know at least 1/2 of my team is going down just to that.

 

[MiraidonGaming]

Serious question: How do you guys beat Miraidon? Pretty much every time I see one, I die a little inside because I know at least 1/2 of my team is going down just to that.

Takes one to kill one. Scarf Mirai, or Sash Chien. Sash Chien +2 Ice Shard OHKOs both of them.

 

[InChandyWeTrust]

Seems a bit overcentralizing to me

 

[gayblading]

Seems a bit overcentralizing to me

I mean, yeah. As I understand it, the tier as of right now is in a RBY Ubers sort of situation where there's no real reason to ban Koraidon and Miraidon because without them, there's almost no point to Ubers existing at all. Miraidon has already been banned in the National Dex Ubers format, so it can be assumed that once Home support is added and the tier is expanded with Pokemon like Mewtwo, Groudon, Dialga, etc. being introduced, Miraidon will get banned, as the tier will still be able to exist and have Uber Pokemon even with it gone.

If you are looking for a good answer to it, Ting-Lu is the generally regarded as the best Pokemon to take it on defensively.

 

[MiraidonGaming]

I mean, yeah. As I understand it, the tier as of right now is in a RBY Ubers sort of situation where there's no real reason to ban Koraidon and Miraidon because without them, there's almost no point to Ubers existing at all. Miraidon has already been banned in the National Dex Ubers format, so it can be assumed that once Home support is added and the tier is expanded with Pokemon like Mewtwo, Groudon, Dialga, etc. being introduced, Miraidon will get banned, as the tier will still be able to exist and have Uber Pokemon even with it gone.

If you are looking for a good answer to it, Ting-Lu is the generally regarded as the best Pokemon to take it on defensively.

You guys are having trouble? I haven't noticed problems... Maybe my double sash team handles it better?

 

[gayblading]

You guys are having trouble? I haven't noticed problems... Maybe my double sash team handles it better?

I mean, not particularly, I make sure my teams are always planned around it. The main reason I think it's fine for the time being is because it's one of only two Uber Pokemon available for use, meaning that every team can dedicate a team slot or two for dealing with it. Like I said, I generally use Specially Defensive Ting-Lu for it, sometimes with support from Pokemon like specially defensive Scream Tail to paralyze it if it Terastallizes into a type other than Electric or Ground (usually Fairy).

But to say that Miraidon isn't a problem is a bit disingenuous in my opinion. As mentioned it got banned from Nat Dex Ubers, and while that tier has its own unique rules that won't be true of this one once Home is introduced (such as how Nat Dex Ubers has access to Z-Moves, something Miraidon would use on its sets), it is still undeniable how powerful it is. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be surprised to see it banned to AG alongside Calyrex-Shadow. This is all speculative though, so do keep that in mind. I'm just someone that really likes speculating about things lol, I'm super excited to see how the future of this tier will pan out.

 

[MiraidonGaming]

I mean, not particularly, I make sure my teams are always planned around it. The main reason I think it's fine for the time being is because it's one of only two Uber Pokemon available for use, meaning that every team can dedicate a team slot or two for dealing with it. Like I said, I generally use Specially Defensive Ting-Lu for it, sometimes with support from Pokemon like specially defensive Scream Tail to paralyze it if it Terastallizes into a type other than Electric or Ground (usually Fairy).

But to say that Miraidon isn't a problem is a bit disingenuous in my opinion. As mentioned it got banned from Nat Dex Ubers, and while that tier has its own unique rules that won't be true of this one once Home is introduced (such as how Nat Dex Ubers has access to Z-Moves, something Miraidon would use on its sets), it is still undeniable how powerful it is. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be surprised to see it banned to AG alongside Calyrex-Shadow. This is all speculative though, so do keep that in mind. I'm just someone that really likes speculating about things lol, I'm super excited to see how the future of this tier will pa

I mean, not particularly, I make sure my teams are always planned around it. The main reason I think it's fine for the time being is because it's one of only two Uber Pokemon available for use, meaning that every team can dedicate a team slot or two for dealing with it. Like I said, I generally use Specially Defensive Ting-Lu for it, sometimes with support from Pokemon like specially defensive Scream Tail to paralyze it if it Terastallizes into a type other than Electric or Ground (usually Fairy).

But to say that Miraidon isn't a problem is a bit disingenuous in my opinion. As mentioned it got banned from Nat Dex Ubers, and while that tier has its own unique rules that won't be true of this one once Home is introduced (such as how Nat Dex Ubers has access to Z-Moves, something Miraidon would use on its sets), it is still undeniable how powerful it is. Personally speaking, I wouldn't be surprised to see it banned to AG alongside Calyrex-Shadow. This is all speculative though, so do keep that in mind. I'm just someone that really likes speculating about things lol, I'm super excited to see how the future of this tier will pan out.

Oh. I hope not honestly, I've already dumped quite a lot of time into this tier. I actually don't have a specific counter, my team just handles opposing legendaries fairly well. Three of them are fully capable of killing, at least. (Korai, Mirai, Chien)

 

[Vurnoise]

Is there a defined Miraidon set?

I'm guessing Timid and a 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread but which sets seem most popular? Life Orb, Scarf, Specs, support?

 

[Fc]

Is there a defined Miraidon set?

I'm guessing Timid and a 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread but which sets seem most popular? Life Orb, Scarf, Specs, support?

Miraidon has too many viable sets to have one defined set, but generally I think the most impactful overall is specs just for its high usage and damage output. We've uploaded 6 sample sets for Miraidon which shows how customizable it is. Generally I think the ones that are easiest to throw on a team are specs and boots pivot, but the most potent as a sweeper is double dance. Scarf is a really strong form of speed control but more iffy offensively, and CM sets have a lot of potentail to break through checks early game. The most defining I'd say is specs rn, but the most volatile and MU based is double dance since you either load into Iron Head Treads / Clodsire or win.

 

[darkcyber]

Cant dragon be slashed along with fairy as a tera type for specs? It has a bit less defensive utility, but makes up for being able to hit both clod and ting-lu really hard, while also 2hkoing iron treads unless it is assault vest or spdf boosted under terrain. It just straight up ohko's iron treads with just max hp and no assault vest or spdf investment.

0 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ting-Lu: 364-430 (70.8 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(I adjusted the ev's and iv's taking in account of ting-lu's ability, vessel of ruin)

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 418-494 (90 - 106.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Iron Treads: 390-459 (101.5 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Iron Treads: 135-159 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (This also includes quark drive boost).

 

[SiTuM]

approved by Fc, Aberforth and post mostly taken from Finchinator

Hey! I recently saw Finchinator's post on the Tera Type Index in SV OU and I thought that was a very good resource that should be added as well in Ubers, since Terastallization is also an incredibly important mechanic in this tier, so I hope this will help some people if they're a bit lost about what Tera type you can often come across in this tier!

TERA TYPE INDEX: SV UBERS

S Rank

Koraidon: Fire / Steel / Fairy / Fighting
Miraidon: Fairy / Electric / Water / Ice / Dragon

A Rank

A+
Chien-Pao: Ice / Dark / Electric
Flutter Mane: Ghost / Fairy / Fire / Normal / Psychic
Great Tusk: Ground / Fairy / Fighting / Ghost
Iron Bundle: Ice / Water
Ting-Lu: Steel / Fairy / Ghost

A
Chi-Yu: Fire / Flying / Dark
Corviknight: Steel / Fairy / Water / Ground
Gholdengo: Fighting / Steel
Skeledirge: Fairy / Normal

A-
Glimmora: Ghost / Flying / Fairy
Iron Treads: Ground / Ghost

B+
Annihilape: Water / Fire
Blissey: Ghost / Steel
Dondozo: Ground / Steel
Dugtrio: Ground / Fairy
Espathra: Fairy / Fighting
Garganacl: Steel / Fairy
Grimmsnarl: Ghost
Iron Valiant: Fairy / Fighting / Electric
Toxapex: Ground / Steel

B
Clodsire: Steel / Ground
Gothitelle: Steel / Fairy
Houndstone: Ghost / Fighting / Normal
Iron Moth: Grass / Water
Kingambit: Ghost / Flying
Palafin: Water
Scream Tail: Steel

B-
Pawmot: Electric
Pelipper: Steel / Ground / Fairy
Roaring Moon: Flying / Steel

C+
Alomomola: Fairy / Ground
Baxcalibur: Ice / Ghost / Fairy
Cloyster: Ice / Water / Ghost
Cyclizar: Ghost / Fairy
Dachsbun: Steel
Garchomp: Ghost / Ground
Hippowdon: Steel / Water
Slither Wing: Bug / Ground

C
Azumarill: Water / Ground
Ceruledge: Ghost / Fairy
Chansey: Ghost / Steel
Ditto: Fairy / Steel
Dragapult: Ghost
Dragonite: Normal
Dudunsparce: Ghost / Steel
Froslass: Steel
Gyarados: Water / Steel / Flying
Hatterene: Water
Iron Hands: Steel / Fighting
Masquerain: Ghost
Scizor: Steel / Water
Scovillain: Fairy
Slowking: Fairy

C-
Arboliva: Steel
Brute Bonnet: Dark / Steel
Cetitan: Ice
Maushold: Ghost / Normal
Slowbro: Water / Fairy
Tinkaton: Water
Tyranitar: Ghost
Umbreon: Ghost / Steel

 

[Sliceofbread96]

approved by Fc, Aberforth and post mostly taken from Finchinator

Hey! I recently saw Finchinator's post on the Tera Type Index in SV OU and I thought that was a very good resource that should be added as well in Ubers, since Terastallization is also an incredibly important mechanic in this tier, so I hope this will help some people if they're a bit lost about what Tera type you can often come across in this tier!

TERA TYPE INDEX: SV UBERS

S Rank

Koraidon: Fire / Steel / Fairy / Fighting
Miraidon: Fairy / Electric / Water / Ice / Dragon

A Rank

A+
Chien-Pao: Ice / Dark / Electric
Flutter Mane: Ghost / Fairy / Fire / Normal / Psychic
Great Tusk: Ground / Fairy / Fighting / Ghost
Iron Bundle: Ice / Water
Ting-Lu: Steel / Fairy / Ghost

A
Chi-Yu: Fire / Flying / Dark
Corviknight: Steel / Fairy / Water / Ground
Gholdengo: Fighting / Steel
Skeledirge: Fairy / Normal

A-
Glimmora: Ghost / Flying / Fairy
Iron Treads: Ground / Ghost

B+
Annihilape: Water / Fire
Blissey: Ghost / Steel
Dondozo: Ground / Steel
Dugtrio: Ground / Fairy
Espathra: Fairy / Fighting
Garganacl: Steel / Fairy
Grimmsnarl: Ghost
Iron Valiant: Fairy / Fighting / Electric
Toxapex: Ground / Steel

B
Clodsire: Steel / Ground
Gothitelle: Steel / Fairy
Houndstone: Ghost / Fighting / Normal
Iron Moth: Grass / Water
Kingambit: Ghost / Flying
Palafin: Water
Scream Tail: Steel

B-
Pawmot: Electric
Pelipper: Steel / Ground / Fairy
Roaring Moon: Flying / Steel

C+
Alomomola: Fairy / Ground
Baxcalibur: Ice / Ghost / Fairy
Cloyster: Ice / Water / Ghost
Cyclizar: Ghost / Fairy
Dachsbun: Steel
Garchomp: Ghost / Ground
Hippowdon: Steel / Water
Slither Wing: Bug / Ground

C
Azumarill: Water / Ground
Ceruledge: Ghost / Fairy
Chansey: Ghost / Steel
Ditto: Fairy / Steel
Dragapult: Ghost
Dragonite: Normal
Dudunsparce: Ghost / Steel
Froslass: Steel
Gyarados: Water / Steel / Flying
Hatterene: Water
Iron Hands: Steel / Fighting
Masquerain: Ghost
Scizor: Steel / Water
Scovillain: Fairy
Slowking: Fairy

C-
Arboliva: Steel
Brute Bonnet: Dark / Steel
Cetitan: Ice
Maushold: Ghost / Normal
Slowbro: Water / Fairy
Tinkaton: Water
Tyranitar: Ghost
Umbreon: Ghost / Steel

If you don't mind me asking, why does koraidon use tera fairy?

 

[darkcyber]

Y
If you don't mind me asking, why does koraidon use tera fairy?

Mainly to take on opposing koraidon and miraidon using dragon moves. Also fairy typing removes its ice weakness and fairy weakness, helping it beat both iron bundle and flutter mane one on one.

 

[Sliceofbread96]

Mainly to take on opposing koraidon and miraidon using dragon moves. Also fairy typing removes its ice weakness and fairy weakness, helping it beat both iron bundle and flutter mane one on one.

Thanks

 

[Rust Dust and Guts]

Seems a bit overcentralizing to me

Then you realize it has mediocre at best longevity without boots, most teams pack immunities to both of its STABs, it's easy to abuse when it's locked into a STAB and that everything in the tier competes for its speed tier and can eliminate it with relative ease;
Flutter Mane in sun outruns and obliterates it with Moonblast
Koraidon, Chien Pao and unboosted Flutter speed tie it and therefore force each other out and Iron Bundle uses its own electric terrain to outrun even Scarf Miraidon and destroy it with a Specs Ice Beam.

It's not as broken as you think.

 

[darkcyber]

Miraidon is definetely not overcentralising, u do have to run atleast one dedicated check to it like ting lu or clodsire if u are not running an offensive team, but the same can be said for koraidon. besides its not like the mons i mentioned are bad, as they check more than just miraidon with their bulk while also supporting the team well with spikes, stealth rock and in clod's case tspikes. Offensive teams have iron bundle and iron treads to check it as well.

 

[darkcyber]

what do u guys think is the best koraidon set? I like scarf koraidon just because it is still threatning enough for balanced or defensive teams for them to switch in their checks to it, which u can take advatage of with uturn, and offensive teams are heavily threatened by it, with only flutter mane being able to speed tie it and tera fire can handle that matchup (although u have to be wary of locking into collision course or dragon claw while it still alive, offensive teams dont really take flare blitz that well and u can still uturn on them to maintain momentum).

 

[OreoSpeedruns]

Great Tusk: Ground / Fairy / Fighting / Ghost

If you don’t mind me asking, why Tera Fairy on Great Tusk?

 

[Lasen]

If you don’t mind me asking, why Tera Fairy on Great Tusk?

on both defensive and offensive sets, the ability to completely blank Dragon moves from Miraidon and Koraidon is very much appreciated, especially when the former can OHKO with Draco Meteor and it's never clicking its Electric moves in front of a Ground-type. Fairy also powers up Play Rough on the defensive set which lets it OHKO the aforementioned Miraidon and 2HKO opposing Great Tusks. The weaknesses Fairy provides (Poison, Steel) aren't very common unlike Steel which also resists Dragon, so there's also some merit there.

 

[OreoSpeedruns]

on both defensive and offensive sets, the ability to completely blank Dragon moves from Miraidon and Koraidon is very much appreciated, especially when the former can OHKO with Draco Meteor and it's never clicking its Electric moves in front of a Ground-type. Fairy also powers up Play Rough on the defensive set which lets it OHKO the aforementioned Miraidon and 2HKO opposing Great Tusks. The weaknesses Fairy provides (Poison, Steel) aren't very common unlike Steel which also resists Dragon, so there's also some merit there.

Thanks Lasen!!!

 

[McGrrr]

Miraidon has too many viable sets to have one defined set, but generally I think the most impactful overall is specs just for its high usage and damage output. We've uploaded 6 sample sets for Miraidon which shows how customizable it is. Generally I think the ones that are easiest to throw on a team are specs and boots pivot, but the most potent as a sweeper is double dance. Scarf is a really strong form of speed control but more iffy offensively, and CM sets have a lot of potentail to break through checks early game. The most defining I'd say is specs rn, but the most volatile and MU based is double dance since you either load into Iron Head Treads / Clodsire or win.

AV Tera Fairy has done a lot of work for me as it wins the 1v1 against Flutter and Bundle. Parabolic Charge recovers too much in terrain vs neutral targets, while Gleam/Overheat provide perfect coverage vs common ground mons. Other sets have to compromise with either choice lock, iffy bulk, or reduced coverage, but Hadron Engine is perfectly sufficient to power this thing alone.

Miraidon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Dazzling Gleam
- Overheat
- Parabolic Charge

 

[McGrrr]

Great Tusk: Ground / Fairy / Fighting / Ghost

Steel and Poison are missing here from defensive sets. For example, I have been using:

Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Headlong Rush

Tera Steel is to survive vs Flutter/Bundle/Chien-Pao/Gholdengo in a pinch and OHKO in return. Tera Poison is similar, but resists Fighting, and absorbs Toxic Spikes

 

[Takatk]

AV Tera Fairy has done a lot of work for me as it wins the 1v1 against Flutter and Bundle. Parabolic Charge recovers too much in terrain vs neutral targets, while Gleam/Overheat provide perfect coverage vs common ground mons. Other sets have to compromise with either choice lock, iffy bulk, or reduced coverage, but Hadron Engine is perfectly sufficient to power this thing alone.

Miraidon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Drift
- Dazzling Gleam
- Overheat
- Parabolic Charge

Can attest to this, I’ve been testing out a lot of AV and being able to take on Flutter and Bundle without use of Tera, and nearly recover all of the damage you take back is incredible, and potentially worth mentioning as a sample. You do lose out on the breaking power and it’s more of a lure, but in exchange you have an incredible bulky special attacker and you can wear down Clodsire and Ting-Lu through pressure with Korai and Tusk either way.

 

[McGrrr]

Cyclizar @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Scarf
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 208 HP / 48 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

If you are forced to Tera Cyclizar, the battle is usually not going well. However, Tera Steel offers genuine utility in matchups vs Flutter and Bundle i.e. the EV spread guarantees that Life Orb Moonblast and Choice Specs Ice Beam deal less than 50% after Tera Steel, enabling a slow Shed Tail of an unbroken sub to your win con.

Iron Head is an additional funny option that always OHKOs Flutter after Tera and offers a "Jirachi at home" flinch win con. Cyclizar is obviously Shed Tail + 3 fillers, so there is room if you want it.

 

[MiraidonGaming]

Cyclizar @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Choice Scarf
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 208 HP / 48 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature

If you are forced to Tera Cyclizar, the battle is usually not going well. However, Tera Steel offers genuine utility in matchups vs Flutter and Bundle i.e. the EV spread guarantees that Life Orb Moonblast and Choice Specs Ice Beam deal less than 50% after Tera Steel, enabling a slow Shed Tail of an unbroken sub to your win con.

Iron Head is an additional funny option that always OHKOs Flutter after Tera and offers a "Jirachi at home" flinch win con. Cyclizar is obviously Shed Tail + 3 fillers, so there is room if you want it.

Nice. I might add it to my team.
Does anyone know if there's a way to check sub durability? I kinda want to know if I'm missing out on surviving extra hits with this compared to max hp.