Unpopular opinions

[Nix_Hex]

Mt. Coronet is awesome. Sinnoh is great because of Mt. Coronet, not in spite of it! I know a lot of people hate it because caves suck in general, you need a ton of HMs to get through it, and you have to keep going back (I'm really not doing a good job selling it, am I?). But the return trips and the various layers that you uncover throughout the adventure are what make it so unique.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Mt. Coronet is awesome. Sinnoh is great because of Mt. Coronet, not in spite of it! I know a lot of people hate it because caves suck in general, you need a ton of HMs to get through it, and you have to keep going back (I'm really not doing a good job selling it, am I?). But the return trips and the various layers that you uncover throughout the adventure are what make it so unique.

I do like the idea of Mt. Coronet, but as you tried to dance around it was poorly executed. What killed what should have been an ever expanding location you traverse through multiple times throughout the game was hindered by all the HMs they used to roadblock and railroad you. I would have rather them just have a construction team doing renovations in Mt. Coronet. Passing through first time they'll just have actual roadblocks up saying in-game there's construction going on but have a simple pathway for people to use to get through. But when you go through the other times they'd have jumping ledges and ladders (and if you have HMs those can be used but they wouldn't be mandatory, or at least you'd only need one kind of HM to get passed an obstacle the construction crew hadn't dealt with yet) to take you around to not only your next destination but also to new locations to explore in Mt. Coronet (they could make it so certain species of Pokemon only appear in certain levels or chambers in Mt. Coronet, they could also even have it connect to other locations around the region like Wayward Cave, Ravaged Path, Solaceon Ruins, and Celestic Ruins). And by the time you're to climb up and face Cyrus and his plans the construction would be all done and you'll have easy pathways to 207 (Oreburgh City), 208 (Hearthome City), 211 (Eterna City & Celestic Town), and 216 (Snowpoint City). They could also have all inner caves connect together for easier travel within Mt. Coronet without having to remember which specific cave entrance leads to what area.

 

[Celever]

Somehow I kind of agree with both of the above two posts in some ways and disagree with them in others, which has led to me figuring out my own thoughts on Mt. Coronet properly.

I'm hesitant to say that Mt. Coronet's concept was actually particularly good for one reason and one reason alone: nothing's at the top of it. Well, you have a couple of routes, Lake Acuity, Spear Pillar, and Snowpoint City (which as I pointed out in another post is an awesome location). But that's not enough -- in the end, the payout is the finale of the Team Galactic plot and a gym badge, but as Mt. Coronet is the most central part of the region and a location the player visits countless times, the most central part of the game should be located there too. The Pokémon League.

Most players aren't really playing Pokémon for the exciting conclusion to the story. Particularly in Gen IV, where the best way to sum up the story is "perfectly serviceable", the story really takes a backseat to the gameplay. Therefore, the most exciting, most challenging gameplay -- the Elite Four and the Champion -- should take the most work to get to. And the games kind of understand this, because every game in the series has Victory Road, as a preliminary challenge before the final one.

But imagine if Victory Road were truly a gauntlet. A gauntlet the player begins working on right after the first gym badge by smashing some rocks that stay smashed, and then the player returns to throughout the game to use more HMs and clear the path even more. Move some boulders with Strength, cut a tree on a low altitude arboreal area, surf over a body of water or go up a waterfall to get to a location that Fly can later be used to get to... it's still a challenging dungeon of puzzles that requires HMs to progress through, but in the end the player can climb from the bottom to the top with no HM use at all (or perhaps with a choice of either Surf/Waterfall or Fly) meaning the player can fight the final trainers in Victory Road with their true team of 6, no HM Slave necessary. Spear Pillar, Snowpoint City and the like can still all be here of course, but above any of them is a final part of the mountain where Cynthia awaits.

I think that if that were the case, I think it would be difficult to criticise Mt. Coronet/Victory Road too heavily. The issue right now is payout per effort invested more than anything. Naturally, ideas like what Pikachu expressed above would help to refine and better harness the potential of the area down to the minutiae, but with this one small shift in the overall concept of the area, I think even if Mt. Coronet were the exact same as it is now + the additional area, it would leave a much more positive impression on the player.

 

[stage7_4]

Another problem with Mt. Coronet and most Sinnoh routes is how same-y they look. They take the moutainous region theme and run it into the ground, with a color palate and sprite work that all feels remarkably similar to each other. Thus any one part of Mt. Coronet looks exactly like any other place in the game.

So let's play Can you even tell the difference?!

which is Coronet and which is Wayward cave

Coronet or Route 216?

Coronet or Victory Road?

That's not to say there isn't some cool places to see in Sinnoh, but it's mostly limited to the towns and specific locales like the Spear Pillar or Floraroma Town. For the routes they use a remarkably similar sprite set so very few of them stand out from each other. And whenever they do, it's mostly to their detriment (like Route 217's stupid snowbanks and vision obscuring storm, or the sinking swamps in the Great Marsh. I have no idea who on the development team got a speeding ticket but clearly they made this game feel so annoyingly slow to just get through).

That and Mt. Coronet lacks the spectacle factor you'd expect of a giant mountain peak. Like, you never really get a sense of it's scale as you always tackle it in tiny caves with chunks here and there, with no way of knowing how high you are. Compare this shot from the next game which really gives a sense of bigness to Skyarrow bridge:

Sinnoh really needed something like this, some overlook near the top saying 'woah, look how high you've climbed' or some observatory at the bottom for you to look up at this gigantic mountain you have to climb. But we never really got that so Coronet looks lame.

Now it is a bit unfair to compare Gen 4 to Gen 5, but coming off the heels of Gen 3 and Hoenn it really looks like Gamefreak struggled in the jump to the DS. Like, remember these places? These are all routes in Hoenn.

It may have too much water but at least it had some biodiversity to it.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

While we're on the topic of comparing gens 3 and 4, I've got an opinion of my own. Not sure if it's unpopular though.

I very much prefer the overworld look of Gen 3 to Gen 4. Maybe it's that I like the pixel environments of Hoenn to the 3D environments of Sinnoh. Maybe it's because I really like the vertical line eye style of the characters. Or maybe it's just because I grew up with Emerald.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I really don't mind all the Alolan forms being Gen 1 only as much as some other people do. People argue it was this way because of "gen 1 pandering", which in itself is a complaint that gets on my nerves, but that's a post for another time. Anyways, counterpoint: If the primary motive was fanservice, why was the batch of Pokemon they chose to get new forms mainly lesser-known members of the Kanto cast? Out of all 18 of the Alolan forms, the only ones you could argue were made due to the originals' popularity are Meowth and maybe Marowak and Ninetales. Again, if pandering was the primary motive behind Alolan forms, Mega Evolutions already showed us GF is not above giving new forms to stuff that really doesn't need a buff like Gengar, Gyarados and Scizor for that very purpose. In addition, as much as people whine about it, Gen 1 does have a lot of Pokemon that have succumbed to power creep heavily over the years (cough cough Marowak and Exeggutor cough), and with the exception of Dugtrio, the rest of them all were in bad need of an update to make them useful again. Finally, I simply love regional variants too much at a conceptual level to be phased that much by something like this. Now, I'm not saying it wouldn't have been nice to see the Alolan forms go beyond the first generation, but Galar's doing that now so it's kinda water under the bridge at this point.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I very much prefer the overworld look of Gen 3 to Gen 4. Maybe it's that I like the pixel environments of Hoenn to the 3D environments of Sinnoh. Maybe it's because I really like the vertical line eye style of the characters. Or maybe it's just because I grew up with Emerald.

Maybe GF should take a page from Dragon Quest 11's book and have a mode where you can switch between a 3D style and a 2D style.

I really don't mind all the Alolan forms being Gen 1 only as much as some other people do.

Looking back at it now, I wonder if they kept it Gen I exclusive in order to test the waters to see how well received it was. As much as they love to pander Gen I, they also like to experiment with Gen I as well before bringing in the other gens. If an idea doesn't work out no reason to do the extra work to bring in the other gens.

As for regional forms themselves, the ones for Alola's main purpose was to just fill in certain gaps which otherwise they'd have to make a completely new Pokemon form. Now I would have liked to see at least some Johto and Unova mons as Alola would also be closely connected with those two regions, however it does have a connection with Kanto so there is an excuse.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Maybe GF should take a page from Dragon Quest 11's book and have a mode where you can switch between a 3D style and a 2D style.

Maybe, though I don't think that's quite it. Gens 7 and 8 look fantastic. I just the 3D in Gen 4 specifically that I don't like.

 

[stage7_4]

Maybe, though I don't think that's quite it. Gens 7 and 8 look fantastic. I just the 3D in Gen 4 specifically that I don't like.

Same, as I feel putting 2D vs 3D is missing the point. There's more than enough evidence that Gamefreak really struggled with Diamond and Pearl and Sinnoh as a whole suffers from a lack of design creativity. We are only praising Gen 3 in a "look how much better they were on older hardware" way.

Evidence including:
1. The really weird initial pokedex with only two fire-type families (among other sins)
2. Wait times, especially when saving or interacting with the PC
3. The guard houses between routes (aka disguised zone loading screens) that force you off your bike.
4. Poor sorting on your backpack, which despite storing all your items can't easily find a specific one.
5. Surfing speed (it's really slow)
6. HP bars have a time delay, 1 second must pass between an attack and the bar dropping.
7. This might be repetitive but the framerate in general was whack.

Platinum fixed most of that, but couldn't cure fundamental design choices like route layouts and spritework.

Heck, it's not even the whole of Gen 4 that's to blame as Gamefreak pretty clearly showed they can create some visually interesting routes in HG/SS:

 

[Kurona]

Whenever the ability to change a Pokémon's advantageous and disadvantageous stats affected through nature comes up, the general argument against is always brought up that by changing a Pokémon's nature, it would feel wrong and against a lot of what Pokémon is about; resulting in a similar problem to what IVs already cause. While I agree with this and that I wouldn't enjoy a nature changer in this direct a way, I feel this opinion has a lack of thinking outside the box.

Instead I would simply suggest that, much like how Hyper Training technically does keep the Pokémon's actual IVs (as evidenced through the likes of Hidden Power), a hypothetical ability to change which stats get a 1.1X and 0.9X multiplier would not have to change nature. You could quite easily have an NPC who says "Oh, I see your Lucario has a Relaxed nature! That means they're inclined towards the defence stat, but not so good at the speed stat... would you like me to teach them another style of battle?", and then you get to have your Lucario who has been relaxed the whole journey and still is now, but is now proficient in speed and deficient in special attack. You can easily have it both ways through in-world justifications like simply being trained to know a different style of battle without risking their personality, while what actual advantageous and disadvantageous stat they have is indicated through the red and blue highlights we've had for over a decade now (though I would suggest those highlights be much more obvious and stronger).

Hyper Training sets a precedent for modifying stats without changing the core of what your Pokémon is, and I would suggest a similar model be used for Natures. What personality is displayed on the menu; as well as certain other effects of nature such as what berry they prefer would remain unchanged while the battle aspect is unhindered and you don't drop a valuable partner just because they don't have a personality that's not advantageous. It allows the messages of bonding and friendship and acceptance of your Pokémon as they are to persist while also emphasising the importance of training your Pokémon instead of the effect of some arbitrary inherent trait.

 

[Yung Dramps]

People always say they'd love to see a Giratina quest with a revamped Distortion World in a DPP remake, and why I agree that would be cool I'd honestly much rather they finally do something of substance with Arceus. It's really disappointing imo how little fanfare this guy got throughout gen 4 and since, and he deserves a cool in-game event to match up to his godly lore. I mean hey, they were able to make Deoxys badass in ORAS, so surely they could so something cool with Arceus.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

People always say they'd love to see a Giratina quest with a revamped Distortion World in a DPP remake, and why I agree that would be cool I'd honestly much rather they finally do something of substance with Arceus. It's really disappointing imo how little fanfare this guy got throughout gen 4 and since, and he deserves a cool in-game event to match up to his godly lore. I mean hey, they were able to make Deoxys badass in ORAS, so surely they could so something cool with Arceus.

Why not both? A Giratina quest would be absolutely excellent to have in line with Platinum, AND it would be awesome to have something of substance with Arceus in the DPP story, especially because it's related to all of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia, and the Lake Trio (being the one who created them) and both a Giratina quest and some Arceus involvement would help tie all the big Sinnoh deity legends together (Arceus, Creation trio, Lake Trio), and both would make for very interesting content. The more content the merrier, I don't see why one should come at the expense of the other. I agree with you, but I would love to have BOTH of those ideas implemented into a DPP remake.

The more the merrier, especially since I am quite a myth/legend fanatic when it comes to stuff of ancient legends and myths so I would love some expansion on the Sinnoh legendaries altogether.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Why not both? A Giratina quest would be absolutely excellent to have in line with Platinum, AND it would be awesome to have something of substance with Arceus in the DPP story, especially because it's related to all of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia, and the Lake Trio (being the one who created them) and both a Giratina quest and some Arceus involvement would help tie all the big Sinnoh deity legends together (Arceus, Creation trio, Lake Trio), and both would make for very interesting content. The more content the merrier, I don't see why one should come at the expense of the other. I agree with you, but I would love to have BOTH of those ideas implemented into a DPP remake.

The more the merrier, especially since I am quite a myth/legend fanatic when it comes to stuff of ancient legends and myths so I would love some expansion on the Sinnoh legendaries altogether.

Sure! I'm just saying that if they had to pick one or the other, go with Arceus.

 

[Pikachu315111]

People always say they'd love to see a Giratina quest with a revamped Distortion World in a DPP remake, and why I agree that would be cool I'd honestly much rather they finally do something of substance with Arceus. It's really disappointing imo how little fanfare this guy got throughout gen 4 and since, and he deserves a cool in-game event to match up to his godly lore. I mean hey, they were able to make Deoxys badass in ORAS, so surely they could so something cool with Arceus.

Why not both? A Giratina quest would be absolutely excellent to have in line with Platinum, AND it would be awesome to have something of substance with Arceus in the DPP story, especially because it's related to all of Giratina, Dialga, Palkia, and the Lake Trio (being the one who created them) and both a Giratina quest and some Arceus involvement would help tie all the big Sinnoh deity legends together (Arceus, Creation trio, Lake Trio), and both would make for very interesting content. The more content the merrier, I don't see why one should come at the expense of the other. I agree with you, but I would love to have BOTH of those ideas implemented into a DPP remake.

The more the merrier, especially since I am quite a myth/legend fanatic when it comes to stuff of ancient legends and myths so I would love some expansion on the Sinnoh legendaries altogether.

Hmm, how about this idea: They extend the Hall of Origins to have a chamber for Arceus, Giratina, Dialga, & Palkia.

We start with the ending of the Team Galactic plot. The player defeats Cyrus however Cyrus isn't going to give up just because a kid defeated them in a Pokemon battle. He commands Dialga/Palkia to unleash its power... which is when a shadow dragon appears and drags Cyrus into a world unseen. This break the control over Dialga/Palkia and they disappear back into the portal they were summoned from... but the timespace distortion isn't stopping. Cynthia tells the player to chase Dialga/Palkia into the portal and they do... and they end up in this hall made of light. Around them are four other chambers, 3 closed by one open that leads to Dialga/Palkia. You battle them, catch/defeat them, and then are teleported back to the top of Mt. Coronet to continue the story. There's no way to return to the Hall of Origins atm.

Post game you hear reports that Cyrus was seen at Turnback Cave... though he vanishes as quickly as he appears. The player goes to investigate, solving the Turnback Cave maze. At the end you see Cyrus entering into another portal and you chase him in. This takes you to the Distortion World where, after adventuring through it, you have one final encounter with Cyrus who says he's satisfied in this world and only appeared in the "real" world to bid it farewell... and then he vanishes. In his place is a portal you go into... to end up in the Hall of Origins again. This time two other doors are open: Palkia/Dialga's and Giratina's. In Palkia/Dialga's there's nothing except for a single item: the timespace orb held item. Also if you didn't catch Dialga/Palkia the first time you can now try again, but this time you won't be teleported once you do (also this time they will be holding their item, if you already caught them their timespace orb will also be laying on the floor). No, you have to go into Giratina's chamber where it awaits you in its Origin Form (yes, it's holding its timespace orb). You battle and either catch/beat it which is when you're teleported back to the entrance of Turnback Cave. By travelling through Turnback Cave & the Distortion World again you can now access the Hall or Origin whenever you like.

FINALLY, for the Arceus event, you get the Azure Flute as originally planned and take it to the top of Mt. Coronet where you play it (at this time Turnback Cave become inaccessible, seemingly having vanished). The stairway to Hall of Origin appears and upon getting there the final chamber is finally unlocked (and all the other doors are also unlocked so you can try to catch the other Legendaries again if you didn't or get their timespace orbs). Awaiting you in the final chamber is Arceus you catch/battle... but you don't teleport away. Rather you now have an easy way of entering & exiting the Hall or Origins via the stairway on top of Mt. Coronet (also after the battle with Arceus the Turnback Cave reappears).

 

[Rarycaris]

The idea of an Arceus/Giratina story offers the opportunity to, perhaps with a mural, expand on why Giratina was banished.

 

[Yung Dramps]

All of these ideas are cool! The last thing I'd like to say on this is that if Arceus were to appear as a fight in a DPP remake, I want it to be HARD. Make him Level 90+, have him change types to counter your Pokemon mid-battle, anything needed to be a challenge befitting of a god.

 

[Rarycaris]

All of these ideas are cool! The last thing I'd like to say on this is that if Arceus were to appear as a fight in a DPP remake, I want it to be HARD. Make him Level 90+, have him change types to counter your Pokemon mid-battle, anything needed to be a challenge befitting of a god.

If we get an Arceus super-form of any sort, the ability to change types on the fly would be really cool. Arceus is strong, but power creep has caught up with it and it just doesn't feel as impressive nowadays. My unpopular opinion is that in retrospect, Arceus was introduced too early.

 

[Yung Dramps]

 

[Wishy]

View attachment 194690

All of them?

 

[harambe's solution]

Collecting TCG Pokemon cards is heavily underrated.

 

[Hugin]

View attachment 194690

I’d disagree, in that I think Plusle and Minun at least aren’t terrible from a concept or design perspective. Stat-wise, they’re trash, but they have a reason to exist(demo double battle mechanics) and are visually distinct in a way that many of the pikaclones aren’t. They’re not great, but I’d put them as better than any of the other electric clones in any way except stats.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Going back to the subject of DPP remakes, I've heard people say they're unnecessary or that Game Freak would cut content like the Battle Frontier or the Distortion World, dampening the overall experience. As someone whose first Pokemon game was Pearl, I firmly believe a potential remake WILL be worth it solely to finally have a version of Gen 4 with HMs nuked and a health bar scroll speed that doesn't make me wanna kill myself.

 

[Specs]

and a health bar scroll speed that doesn't make me wanna kill myself.

lol for real, that alone made the gen very frustrating. Love those games but man that was tough to sit through. As far as remakes, Sinnoh would look really cool imo in the art style of today's pokemon games, some cities like Jubilife especially

 

[Kurona]

Going back to the subject of DPP remakes, I've heard people say they're unnecessary or that Game Freak would cut content like the Battle Frontier or the Distortion World, dampening the overall experience. As someone whose first Pokemon game was Pearl, I firmly believe a potential remake WILL be worth it solely to finally have a version of Gen 4 with HMs nuked and a health bar scroll speed that doesn't make me wanna kill myself.

DPP remakes are very interesting to me because at least in concept they would fix all the major problems Sinnoh had just going by today's standards. The slow gameplay engine? The over-abundant HMs? The repetitive tilesets? It's difficult to foresee a remake not addressing all of these issues, not even deliberately; but just because of the way they make games and what sort of engine they're already using for the likes of SwSh.

In fact, now that you've brought up HMs; I can actually see this not just being a problem that will be solved, but the transformation from a negative into a positive. A huge amount of HMs would actually be fairly interesting because you get to see so many skills in rapid succession and you get a lot of different ways to explore different parts of the world, and it gives you even more things to come back to old areas for. Oreburgh Gate clearly comes to mind as a good example -- there's areas locked off by Rock Smash, the Bike, Surf and Strength. Keeping those areas and roadblocks in mind for later directly rewards the player and makes you feel like your world's expanding and like you're making progress... but the issue, of course, was the dull monotony of having to go back to your PC for a Strength Pokémon or fit it into your team or finding compression, just all these annoying preparation aspects that made it feel more like a chore.

But now we're looking at Ride Pokémon (or an improved bike, going by SwSh pre-release material?) that removes all of these negatives and leaves only the positives. The large amount of roadblocks Sinnoh has will lead to the original intent becoming clearer; that with every new tool you get, every past area you've visited becomes richer and larger. It's one of my favourite things that Pokémon's style of progression does, and we could be looking forward to the best implementation of it.

... then again, ORAS brought back a separated Center/Mart and other things; so who knows... we could just see the return of actual HMs. We will either be met with extreme euphoria or humongous horror.

 

[Luisar2002]

They literally only have to do a few things to make the gen 4 remakes be good.

1-Use the LGPE exp system of "all your mons recieve exp but very little", this would not only fix the strategic dominance of old games, but would also prevent the games from overflowing you with exp.
2-Get rid of HMs and increase the speed of the game.
3-Skippable cutscenes/dialogue.
4-Fix the levels of wild water types.
5-Keep everything intact from platinum.

If they do this, they would not only have the best remake on the franchise, but the best game on the franchise by a huge margen, im not exaggerating.

I wouldn't recommend gamefreak to do a remake tho, they struggle to get the mainline games in time, let alone more side proyects, if they refuse to increase their staff (which i can sort of understand now that they are more on the edge of getting fired than ever), then they can always let other developers make the remakes, grezzo doesn't really have anything important to do (that hasn't been announced) right now,so they could do it.