Unpopular opinions

[Worldie]

I actually liked how Sword and Shield mostly ignored the major concern that was happening while we played.

It let the story focus on the Gym Challenge for what was pretty much the first time in the entire series. Even if it was not great by any means, it was refreshing. Unfortunately this execution was botched at the very end, which makes the story end up being bad - I insist that the Eternatus crisis should have been part of the post-game, and have the main story solely focused on you, your rivals, and the road to become a champion.

To be fair, I actually liked the idea myself.

Rather than your usual "btw we trusting a 10 year old to save the world cause we adults are too dumb to do so", the plot actually has the adults (Leon/Sonia) actually try to do their job, and honestly as I wrote in the boss fight, Leon trying to protect the protagonist from Eternatus knowing his attempt to capture it failed miserably is probably one of the best Champion moments of the entire series, even though in the end we are the one to save the world.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

To be honest while it may not have been the best executed, the Eternatus crisis showing up during the League and out of complete surprise I believe was intentional, and it's designed to highlight Rose's most fatal flaw as a person, which is his impatience.

We see a conversation with Leon about how Rose wants him to help on controlling Eternatus, and Leon says he must do the Championship match everyone's been waiting for, but Rose is consistently pushing him even though Leon suggests he wait until after the Champion Cup, in which case it would be post-game. Leon is basically like "this is about a problem that will be 1000 years from now, we have time, we can wait!", but Rose is too impatient and he is so fixated on keeping the Galar region he loves so much alive and full of energy for years to come, and can't afford to wait in his mind.

So his impatience ultimately backfires, because he goes ahead and decides to try to unleash Eternatus without Leon, and of course since he doesn't have a strong Trainer with him to keep such a dangerous Pokemon under control, it backfires since Eternatus goes on a rampage that threatens to destroy all of Galar. Leon has to rush in during the event to do what he must (control Eternatus) but he now has to do it in the midst of its rampage, but since Eternatus is too strong, he fails.

You and Hop now are the ones to step in and save the day, but also because of the knowledge of the Darkest Day that you accumulated from Sonia over the course of the journey, who had been investigating the history of the Darkest Day, and because of that, you and Hop step in and manage to get the heroes' weapons and summon the two wolves who step in and stop Eternatus. Rose does ultimately succeed in giving Galar tons of energy as Eternatus after its capture unleashes energy that goes across all of Galar, but not without a crisis that was a consequence of him doing it too quickly without having a strong Trainer to help him from the get go, so now others had to rush in and stop Eternatus in the midst of a rampage.

It's not the best execution, but it was meant to emphasize Rose's lack of patience and how it backfired on him horribly, as well as the whole region to an extent.

 

[Scorpio]

On this topic, the D-Max Purrserker incident should’ve been a mini-Max Raid-style fight with you & Leon against it, ala Eternatus later in the game. Just saying.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Gen 1 pulled it off wonderfully, as there was no established pattern of Elite 4 + Champion, and Lance is built up to be the final boss (he even has unique music compared to the first three members of the Elite 4) to further sell the surprise.

No, they all use repeated music up until the Champion Battle with Blue:

• When battling Loreli, Bruno, and Agatha they use the normal Trainer Battle theme.
• Loreli's Room plays the Gym theme.
• Bruno's Room plays the Rocket HQ theme.
• Agatha's Room plays the Pokemon Tower theme.
• Lance's Room plays the Pokemon Gate/League theme.
• When battling Lance he uses the Gym Leader theme.
• Blue's Room also keeps playing the Pokemon Gate/League theme.
• Finally when you battle Blue do we get a new theme, Blue's Champion theme.

Edit: "Run its course" maybe isn't the best choice of words. Overused? I dunno.

Both terms work eitherway. Having the Champion be a "secret" is no longer a surprise, especially since the REASON for keeping the Champion a surprise only works in context to the player's relation to the character:

• Gen 1: There is no indication of there being a "Champion", just the Elite Four and whoever beats them becomes Champion. We get to the League, Blue no where in sight, and it feels like we finally got one over him and are rushing through the Elite Four. While they used repeated themes, having Lance's room use the Pokemon League theme and the Gym Leader theme does make him feel like the leader of the Elite Four and final boss (and his team is powerful). So when you beat him & are told you're now Champion it does feel like you've beaten the game... only for the rug to be pulled under you. The repeated theme, while used carefully, for any game veteran was still a hint there's one final battle as it wasn't a new theme. And going into the Champion room, though they kept it "secret", you knew who was waiting for you, there's only been one person that has been one step ahead of you this entire time. So the surprise isn't WHO the Champion is but more that few second feeling you beaten the Elite Four before Blue thus became Champion first.
  
  
• Gen 2: Now the surprise here only works if you played the original games. Anyone who played Gen I will know Lance. When you get to the fourth member of the Pokemon League and don't see any of them are Lance it's a surprise as there's also no reason for Blue or Red to no longer be Champion. With Loreli and Agatha gone the player may assume Lance is too busy being a g-man to do Elite Four duty. Then, SURPRISE! You were expecting the previous rival or player but instead its Lance! Turns out Red abandoned the position and Blue had no interest taking it back without beating Red, and with new trainers filling up Elite Four positions he took the opportunity to challenge the League himself to become Champion. But, once again, this is only a surprise if you played the previous game, otherwise a player would just go "oh, hey, it's the guy that helped me with the Lake of Rage, neat".
  
  
• Gen 3: No reason for Steven to be a secret Champion, he meet him once early on, helps us stop Kyogre/Groudon, and then off to the Pokemon League. Wallace in Emerald is only a surprise if you played Ruby and/or Sapphire where he was the Gym Leader, and even then the surprise isn't like with Lance as that technically had a few years build-up while Wallace suddenly being Champion in the third version feels like it was just done to be a twist.
  
  
• Gen 4: No reason for Cynthia to be a secret Champion either. By then everyone probably predicted it miles away even if it was your first Pokemon game. "Gasp! The enigmatic woman who helps us every so often, seems like an important figure, and hinted to be a strong trainer is the Champion who is an enigmatic figure that's an important figure with strong Pokemon, who saw that coming...".
  
  
• Gen 5: In BW was a nice chance of pace for Alder to just go "oh hey, I'm the Champ, what's up". Heck, even the twist that N was the final boss also wasn't a surprise as we knew he was going to make his way to the Pokemon League and Alder goes there to battle him. We knew either Alder wins and we face him for Championship or, the more likely, N wins and we have to defeat him to stop Plasma's plans... and to become Champion. The change of pace here was more that we were also finishing up the villain team story as the final part of the main game where previous had you doing that just before the League. The only other surprise to pull from this is that you do have to rematch the Elite Four and defeat Alder to "officially" become Champion, though everyone agrees it's more of a victory lap for the player.
  
  B2W2 I feel has the same problem as Emerald even though it tried playing things as Gen II did. The games are sequels and we know who Iris is... but we also barely know Iris. In BW she appears early in Castelia City to help Bianca when her Munna gets stolen and later in Opelucid City (and only in White do you battle her, in black she's just Drayden's assistant). In B2W2 she only appears in Castelia to barely help with the Team Plasma hunt before vanishing until her Champion battle. Like in Gen II a few years has past so there is build-up, but let's remeber Lance was also an Elite Four member just before the Champion while Iris was only a substitute Gym Leader in one version of the game, not really comparable even if we interacted with Iris more technically. It makes me wonder they were hoping the anime's influence of having Iris as a main travelling companion would help players be more familiar with her making the surprise more big (turns out Ash has been travelling around with a future Champion his entire time in Unova, whoa!).
  
  
• Gen 6: Diantha had no reason to be Champion, let alone a secret one. Thanks for helping me with Team Flare, no like you could have used your star power in any way to help. Would have been more believable if Lysandre was Champion and all members of the Kalos Elite Four were members of Team Flare. Though maybe that felt like it was too obvious in the opposite direction if they did think about it.
  
  
• Gen 7: It's not a surprise you became Champion as you were told the Champion seat was open. Wouldn't say Kukui being the final boss being a surprise either as he made the League and he loves battling. What I would say is a surprise was the Title Defense matches, unlike previous games where you becoming Champion was just a shiny title while the old Champion still remained in charge, in Gen 7 you were THE Champion thus when a trainer beats the Elite Four you had to challenge them (well, in-lore that is, gameplay wise it's just an excuse to make the League Rematches more interesting). Whether Hau being the surprise boss in USUM depended on whether you expected a twist or not when it was time for the first Champion bout, wasn't to me though what did take me surprise was the remix of Hau's theme into a Champion theme.
  
  
• Gen 8: Taking the BW route of knowing who the Champ is from the start as it plays into the story of the game, so a nice and understandable subversion. Also like in BW the surprise was more in Rose interrupting the Champion Match than the match itself... well, "surprise" but the still image cutscene of Rose and Leon talking about Galar's future made it obvious something was going to go down before, during, or right after the match and dramatic tension (& gameplay limitation) means it has to be before.

So, what would I like to see in the future? Well, would like for them to learn what makes an efficient "secret Champion" and go off that: Is there a reason to keep the character a "secret Champion"? If not, don't thus allowing to use that character more fluidly in the story. If yes, actually attempt to hide their title (and have a good reason why) before the reveal.

We see a conversation with Leon about how Rose wants him to help on controlling Eternatus, and Leon says he must do the Championship match everyone's been waiting for, but Rose is consistently pushing him even though Leon suggests he wait until after the Champion Cup, in which case it would be post-game. Leon is basically like "this is about a problem that will be 1000 years from now, we have time, we can wait!", but Rose is too impatient and he is so fixated on keeping the Galar region he loves so much alive and full of energy for years to come, and can't afford to wait in his mind.

So his impatience ultimately backfires, because he goes ahead and decides to try to unleash Eternatus without Leon, and of course since he doesn't have a strong Trainer with him to keep such a dangerous Pokemon under control, it backfires since Eternatus goes on a rampage that threatens to destroy all of Galar. Leon has to rush in during the event to do what he must (control Eternatus) but he now has to do it in the midst of its rampage, but since Eternatus is too strong, he fails.

Not to mention Eternatus learned Flamethrower while in hibernation, so Rose was likely unprepared for his Pokemon and employees Pokemon being wiped out.

Actually, I just had a thought: Why didn't Rose postpone the Champion Cup? HE'S Chairman, Leon can whine all he wants about Rose doing it, but as Chairman, Rose outranks him. If this was truly something be believed in and needed Leon for it, there's no reason for Rose to have agreed to let the Champion Cup not be delayed only for him to unleash Eternatus anyway. Like, what was he worried about if he actually delayed it? Leon being grumpy with him for a day? Leon isn't the type to allow a dangerous Pokemon to wreak havoc on the region so he knew Leon was going to help. Was Rose trying to be a "big man" and show Leon what happens when you question his decisions, damn the consequences even if they screw him over?

On this topic, the D-Max Purrserker incident should’ve been a mini-Max Raid-style fight with you & Leon against it, ala Eternatus later in the game. Just saying.

Ooh, maybe have the D-Purrserker being a Max Raid with you, Hop, Leon, and Raihan to build-up for his battle.

And for Eternatus, you know what, have it be the player, Hop, Marnie, and Bede. If one of the game's theme was about passing down the torch it should have been the four characters who represented this instead of just the player and Hop.

 

[Siggu]

To be honest while it may not have been the best executed, the Eternatus crisis showing up during the League and out of complete surprise I believe was intentional, and it's designed to highlight Rose's most fatal flaw as a person, which is his impatience.

We see a conversation with Leon about how Rose wants him to help on controlling Eternatus, and Leon says he must do the Championship match everyone's been waiting for, but Rose is consistently pushing him even though Leon suggests he wait until after the Champion Cup, in which case it would be post-game. Leon is basically like "this is about a problem that will be 1000 years from now, we have time, we can wait!", but Rose is too impatient and he is so fixated on keeping the Galar region he loves so much alive and full of energy for years to come, and can't afford to wait in his mind.

So his impatience ultimately backfires, because he goes ahead and decides to try to unleash Eternatus without Leon, and of course since he doesn't have a strong Trainer with him to keep such a dangerous Pokemon under control, it backfires since Eternatus goes on a rampage that threatens to destroy all of Galar. Leon has to rush in during the event to do what he must (control Eternatus) but he now has to do it in the midst of its rampage, but since Eternatus is too strong, he fails.

You and Hop now are the ones to step in and save the day, but also because of the knowledge of the Darkest Day that you accumulated from Sonia over the course of the journey, who had been investigating the history of the Darkest Day, and because of that, you and Hop step in and manage to get the heroes' weapons and summon the two wolves who step in and stop Eternatus. Rose does ultimately succeed in giving Galar tons of energy as Eternatus after its capture unleashes energy that goes across all of Galar, but not without a crisis that was a consequence of him doing it too quickly without having a strong Trainer to help him from the get go, so now others had to rush in and stop Eternatus in the midst of a rampage.

It's not the best execution, but it was meant to emphasize Rose's lack of patience and how it backfired on him horribly, as well as the whole region to an extent.

Yeah, of course, it's all foreshadowed through the game but, in terms of execution, it felt like "Oh no, we forgot the battle with the legendary! Where do we put it?"

 

[DrPumpkinz]

No, they all use repeated music up until the Champion Battle with Blue:

While they used repeated themes, having Lance's room use the Pokemon League theme and the Gym Leader theme does make him feel like the leader of the Elite Four and final boss (and his team is powerful). So when you beat him & are told you're now Champion it does feel like you've beaten the game... only for the rug to be pulled under you. The repeated theme, while used carefully, for any game veteran was still a hint there's one final battle as it wasn't a new theme.

I said compared to the first three Elite 4 members. I know Lance doesn't have a unique battle theme.

Also, there are only four battle themes in the entire game, and you would have only heard three at that point: wild, trainer, and gym leader. Even battles against important trainers like Blue, Giovanni, and the first three Elite 4 members use the regular trainer theme, so the use of the gym leader theme as Lance's battle track doesn't really provide any clue toward it not being the final battle. It just clues you into realizing the game reuses music a lot. However, the final Blue battle having the only unique battle music in the game certainly does elevate it and make it feel more dramatic.

And then Firered and Leafgreen went and gave all four of them the gym leader theme. Lame.


Everything else you said was right on the money, though.

 

[Worldie]

So, what would I like to see in the future? Well, would like for them to learn what makes an efficient "secret Champion" and go off that: Is there a reason to keep the character a "secret Champion"? If not, don't thus allowing to use that character more fluidly in the story. If yes, actually attempt to hide their title (and have a good reason why) before the reveal.

To be fair, the real question is, outside of the very first games that still kinda had the story all over the place (both due to inexperience and due to Game Boy games not exactly giving a lot of ways to tell the story in first place), why would the Champion be secret in first place?

In all of the ""modern"" Pokemon Games (tecnically the old ones too), every relevant trainer knows the whole point of Gyms isn't to just look pretty but it's for trainers to challenge them and then challenge the Elite 4 for the sake of being the best.
Why would the current Champion not be a (at least) region-wide knowledge? Expecially Gym Leaders who must have fought it at some point are deemed to know him/her and have talked of it with others, as well as probably having made it to the medias at some point.

Plus, even for the rematches, honestly I like gen 7 and 8 taking a slightly different approach.
Gen 7 has you do the title defense which is a nice touch (though why exactly the champion has to re-fight the E4 isnt exactly something that makes sense other than "formalities" according to the E4 themselves).
Gen 8 having instead a "League Tournament" to determine the champion is also a very nice shakeup from the formula.

Like, i'll be honest, the fact you have to just "go through E4 again", even if they have a buffed team or an altered dialogue, is kinda weak as far as lore goes, I wish that in future games they keep shaking up the concept in more ""realistic"" ways.

Yeah, of course, it's all foreshadowed through the game but, in terms of execution, it felt like "Oh no, we forgot the battle with the legendary! Where do we put it?"

Tecnically, it is in the postgame.
The questline to actually obtain the doggos is a postgame quest (not even a terrible one really).
Honestly they just wanted to "resolve" the Rose line before postgame, that's about it. Could have been done better, but it wasnt done "badly" ether.

 

[Codraroll]

On this topic, the D-Max Purrserker incident should’ve been a mini-Max Raid-style fight with you & Leon against it, ala Eternatus later in the game. Just saying.

I suspect this was the plan, but that it was shelved due to lack of time. We know Dynamax Pokémon were planned to roam the overworld at some point during the game's development:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1319092777993502720

 

[QuentinQuonce]

A champion that isn't only sitting on the Pokemon League and he is interested in making his region better.

Replying late to this, but I don't agree at all that we haven't had those already.

-Lance proactively investigates Team Rocket in GSC and their remakes, before the player ever gets involved
-Steven and Wallace both, in their own way, are clearly interested in making their region better and in its wellbeing
-Cynthia doesn't stay tied to the League and travels throughout Sinnoh, and her research definitely seems like something which would make the region better, by understanding it more deeply
-Alder explicitly states that he is on a journey around Unova and gets involved with all kinds of people, encouraging new talent like Iris and the preschoolers he has you and Cheren battle
-Iris doesn't have any defined role outside of being Drayden's protegee, but she's younger than the others and openly questions what kind of champion she will be, so I think the point here is that she's not quite on the same level yet. Notably she doesn't take part in the PWT, which I think implies her relative inexperience compared to the others. But it's clear to me that she will eventually be a more accomplished figure in her own right
-who knows what Diantha does on a day-to-day basis, but she clearly isn't tied to the league
-this is Kukui's whole thing. His motive in creating a Pokemon League is improving Alola so it can stand alongside other regions

So really the only one who doesn't quite fit this is Blue, and he at least takes a job as the Viridian Gym Leader (even if he's not that committed to it) so it would seem that he feels at least some sense of obligation to his region.

Now, if you mean in terms of their job, that's something I could get behind. Blue and Lance were both very much just trainers with little other responsibility, but increasingly as the games have progressed we've seen more champions with a duality in their roles, having some sort of other interest besides being a trainer. Steven is a rock maniac, Wallace is a contest master, Cynthia is an archaeologist, and Diantha is an actress. But for the most part this is just flavour and doesn't really impact the story, and none of those occupations are public service-type jobs.

I've mentioned before about an archetype I'd like to see the games try out, which is a champion who is a politician of some kind. We see politicians occasionally in the games and the anime but they're usually ineffective bumblers or outright villains - I'd like to see a Champion who was a politician with good motives, and whose first priority was contributing to the development and improvement of their city/region. Much as politicians come and go, the champion could reflect that one day soon they'll be gone, with someone new taking their place. I won't expound on this too much as it probably veers into wishlisting but I think there's great scope for a champion who is explicitly a public servant first and a trainer second, with them reflecting on how the two roles come together.

By design, this sort of character - much like Alder and Leon - would likely be identified as the champion from the start instead of being a "secret champion" like the others.

 

[Yung Dramps]

No clue if I've posted this in this thread or even somewhere else in this subforum already but I would genuinely be completely content with BDSP being just as stale and unimaginative as people claim it will be IF it meant the fanbase collectively waking up to how amazing ORAS was out of spite

 

[Pikachu315111]

No clue if I've posted this in this thread or even somewhere else in this subforum already but I would genuinely be completely content with BDSP being just as stale and unimaginative as people claim it will be IF it meant the fanbase collectively waking up to how amazing ORAS was out of spite

Would only work if they also included the Platinum additions (yes, that includes the Battle Frontier we're all tired hearing about):

Producer: "We want the third version stuff! We want the Battle Frontier! FINE! If you so damn want the third version stuff instead of seeing what new things we thought of than here's a 1:1 remake of the DP games right down to the 3D matching the sprite artwork. Oh, but it has your precious Platinum inclusions so it's now a 10/10 game now, right?"

Actually, if that was the point they wanted to get across just call it a day and do a singular Platinum 1:1 (except include all the Pokemon in the Regional Dex) remake.

 

[FangFoe]

I'm super late to this but who can stop me!

(1. Trubbish is cute
I'm a Gen 5 simp since I know that pokemon existed from the BW Anime. And I always hate when people diss it saying the pokemon are uncreative or ugly. I really like object-mons and that's why I think Trubbish is so cute! Trubbish's face looks like a dumb toddler who would bump their heads occasionally... IT'S CUTE

(2. Chingling is cute
People said that this is the most unnecessary pokemon to ever exist. NOT TRUE. I first saw Chingling at the Kalos Reflection Cave and I thought it was one of the cutest things ever. As I said at the Trubbish entry I love object-mons, heck my favorite pokemon of all time is Chandelure, an object-mon! (Speaking of Chandelure I was going to put it here until I realized the 2020 most popular mon of the year list, Chandelure is the most popular Gen 5 mon so.. yea) When I saw Chimecho also at Reflection Cave, I thought it was its pre-Evo. It disappoints me when I realize Chingling is too weak for even usage. (Congrats my boy V)

(3. I hate some very popular mons
The sprites above are very popular pokemon that I despise. IDK why but the majority of the fanbase likes plain pokemon, or just "iconic". Like we all know that Charizard is the worst mon ever don't @ me. And Staraptor's face just looks stupid I don't get people saying it's badass or something.. it's NOT. Arcanine looks too boring. It's just a fire lion that, unlike Pyroar, doesn't have cool manes or gender differences. The same goes for Gyarados, Snorlax, and Metagross. They all look boring. Also, can we talk about how people who stans gen 1 saying that other gen especially gen 5 that the pokemon are uncreative? LOOK AT GEN 1 MONS. A thumb sticking out of the ground, a Pokeball, a normal dragon that breathes fire with a firetail, a fat bear-like cmon! Their excuse is just "They're Iconic" or something. Newer Pokemons now have great origins and look interesting. Now, I hate Dragapult because it's ugly, but look at the design origins! It's cool, it's just that Dragapult's face is ugly.

Ok enough rampage since nobody is going to read this anyways. But cool, let me know your thoughts on.. my. thoughts

Yea and as always, see you later, Chandelier!

 

[SpiritGuy]

The sprites above are very popular pokemon that I despise. IDK why but the majority of the fanbase likes plain pokemon, or just "iconic". Like we all know that Charizard is the worst mon ever don't @ me. And Staraptor's face just looks stupid I don't get people saying it's badass or something.. it's NOT. Arcanine looks too boring. It's just a fire lion that, unlike Pyroar, doesn't have cool manes or gender differences. The same goes for Gyarados, Snorlax, and Metagross. They all look boring. Also, can we talk about how people who stans gen 1 saying that other gen especially gen 5 that the pokemon are uncreative? LOOK AT GEN 1 MONS. A thumb sticking out of the ground, a Pokeball, a normal dragon that breathes fire with a firetail, a fat bear-like cmon! Their excuse is just "They're Iconic" or something. Newer Pokemons now have great origins and look interesting. Now, I hate Dragapult because it's ugly, but look at the design origins! It's cool, it's just that Dragapult's face is ugly.

Well well well... I think there is pretty much bad faith in your message. Even if I don't care about Charizard or Staraptor, I can't let you say Arcanine is a boring mon. Since you're talking about Pokemon's origins, Arcanine's ones are pretty interesting, it's based on a crature that looks like a mix between lions and dogs, and the Xieshi, a fire-eating mythical dog. Furthermore, it's also probably based on a Kaiju I forgot the name, since it's one of the first Pokemon ever created. And why would they make gender differences for it ? Just for making gender differences ? Would the female Arcanine look dope with Female Pyroar's mane ? Diglett reference the Whac-a-mole games since Tajiri used to play it a lot when he was younger. Snorlax was created for scenaristic reasons, so a panda mixed with Koji Nishino, both enjoying eating and sleep would make a great concept for a Pokemon which block the path sleeping.
Even if I agree with you for some mons, calling older Pokemon boring and uninspired is totally wrong. They may look like rudimentary compared to the new ones and creating Pokemon like them would'nt work today but calling them uninspired is a pretty disingenuous shortcut. Furthermore, don't forget that was the genesis of the licence, pretty much everything was still to be invented and certain Pokemon were created under specifications, such as Pikachu or Eevee.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Also, can we talk about how people who stans gen 1 saying that other gen especially gen 5 that the pokemon are uncreative?

Those people have mostly died out, and mainly live on as strawmen.

 

[Codraroll]

I'm super late to this but who can stop me!

On behalf of the moderation team: Hello!

Now you know.

Then again, you haven't done anything worth stopping, so no worries.

 

[FangFoe]

Well well well... I think there is pretty much bad faith in your message. Even if I don't care about Charizard or Staraptor, I can't let you say Arcanine is a boring mon. Since you're talking about Pokemon's origins, Arcanine's ones are pretty interesting, it's based on a crature that looks like a mix between lions and dogs, and the Xieshi, a fire-eating mythical dog. Furthermore, it's also probably based on a Kaiju I forgot the name, since it's one of the first Pokemon ever created. And why would they make gender differences for it ? Just for making gender differences ? Would the female Arcanine look dope with Female Pyroar's mane ? Diglett reference the Whac-a-mole games since Tajiri used to play it a lot when he was younger. Snorlax was created for scenaristic reasons, so a panda mixed with Koji Nishino, both enjoying eating and sleep would make a great concept for a Pokemon which block the path sleeping.
Even if I agree with you for some mons, calling older Pokemon boring and uninspired is totally wrong. They may look like rudimentary compared to the new ones and creating Pokemon like them would'nt work today but calling them uninspired is a pretty disingenuous shortcut. Furthermore, don't forget that was the genesis of the licence, pretty much everything was still to be invented and certain Pokemon were created under specifications, such as Pikachu or Eevee.

Ok first up, I didn't even bother looking up for design origins for pokemon that I don't like, but that's an error on my part. Like at the dragapult entry at the last bit, even if its design origin is cool, that's not an excuse for the mon to be ugly or boring. It's just an extra point that really just bumps a bit of respect. Now I didnt mean like all gen 1 mons are bad i meant some of them. Really its my head that's saying that and not the forum post. Also when I said that arcanine doesnt have anything like pyroar i meant it like this. Since I think Pyroar is boring just like arcanine, I just think Pyroar is better cus it has a better mane with a special treat of a gender differences. So i would like arcanine a bit more if it got like a regional form, a mega, thats what i meant as in special treat. I didnt said that gen 1 mons are uninspiring, and like i didnt even said that all of them are. Me saying that diglett being a thumb from ground or snorlax being a fat bear, is just me describing them from what i see. As i said i dont like them thats why i didnt search up its design origins.

But hey, its not gamefreak faults cus it was 1990s. But thx for telling me this since now i got a bit of respect boost for the mons. Still doesnt changed my mind that they look boring. So its on me its my bad

 

[Pikachu315111]

(1. Trubbish is cute
(2. Chingling is cute

Certainly unpopular picks but I can see what you mean. Heck, there are episodes of the anime featuring them which sort of touch on the subject. Though I did notice a mistake in your post, don't worry I got it for yeah:

Like we all know that Charizard is the BEST mon ever don't @ me.

There ya go.

BTW I'm just joking, love any Pokemon to want to love, hate any Pokemon you want to hate (as long as well all agree Dracovish is the absolute worst). Let's just be respectful to one another and remember this is all in good fun.

(BTW, hating on Charizard isn't unpopular, sad to say. BTW if you couldn't tell, Charizard is my favorite Pokemon (so obviously we can't be friends; just kidding of course... maybe...). Though my favorite Gen is also Gen V so we can agree there).

 

[FangFoe]

Certainly unpopular picks but I can see what you mean. Heck, there are episodes of the anime featuring them which sort of touch on the subject. Though I did notice a mistake in your post, don't worry I got it for yeah:



There ya go.

BTW I'm just joking, love any Pokemon to want to love, hate any Pokemon you want to hate (as long as well all agree Dracovish is the absolute worst). Let's just be respectful to one another and remember this is all in good fun.

(BTW, hating on Charizard isn't unpopular, sad to say. BTW if you couldn't tell, Charizard is my favorite Pokemon (so obviously we can't be friends; just kidding of course... maybe...). Though my favorite Gen is also Gen V so we can agree there).

I guess now liking Charizard is an unpopular opinion lol.


I like both of Charizard's mega. Though, the Y is better :) Dracovish is indeed the worst mon..... of gen 8. I mean at least I have really good memories with Charizard literally carrying me on the victory road at Kalos. Now I hate him for something that he doesn't do... Sadge :( Gen V is my fav mainly cus of well-written characters and stories. The mons are amazing, sad that Chandelure didn't make it to the top 10 most popular mons back at 2020 :(

 

[Pikachu315111]

I guess now liking Charizard is an unpopular opinion lol.

Honestly, I don't really know WHAT to think when it comes to Charizard being liked or hated or overused or underappreciated. Due to Charizarids INITIAL popularity, partially thanks to the anime, it had become a background mascot for the franchise and it feels like nowadays it's being used more as a tool of "look how cool this thing is" rather than if it's really something that Charizard needed.

Like Charizard getting TWO Megas. I like Mega Charizard Y, but X feels like it was done for a marketing stunt. It's just a black Charizard with blue flames, cool for an alt Charizard form but a Mega? Charizard Y looks like a Mega and would rather it having the Dragon-typing.

But I HATE Gigantamax Charizard. Even though now they gave Leon a neat reason to have a Charizard as his ace, it still feels pretty pandering as it did when they first revealed it. G-Charizard felt like it was done to push Gigantamax as being something that was cool rather than something which Charizard itself needed.

sad that Chandelure didn't make it to the top 10 most popular mons back at 2020 :(

Hey, at least it's in Pokken which is something it can say over the other 800+ Pokemon.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Ok first up, I didn't even bother looking up for design origins for pokemon that I don't like, but that's an error on my part. Like at the dragapult entry at the last bit, even if its design origin is cool, that's not an excuse for the mon to be ugly or boring. It's just an extra point that really just bumps a bit of respect. Now I didnt mean like all gen 1 mons are bad i meant some of them. Really its my head that's saying that and not the forum post. Also when I said that arcanine doesnt have anything like pyroar i meant it like this. Since I think Pyroar is boring just like arcanine, I just think Pyroar is better cus it has a better mane with a special treat of a gender differences. So i would like arcanine a bit more if it got like a regional form, a mega, thats what i meant as in special treat. I didnt said that gen 1 mons are uninspiring, and like i didnt even said that all of them are. Me saying that diglett being a thumb from ground or snorlax being a fat bear, is just me describing them from what i see. As i said i dont like them thats why i didnt search up its design origins.

But hey, its not gamefreak faults cus it was 1990s. But thx for telling me this since now i got a bit of respect boost for the mons. Still doesnt changed my mind that they look boring. So its on me its my bad

Trubbish is just a bag of trash, Chingling is just a bell, and Chandelure is just a chandelier, therefore they are boring, and also uncreative and ugly. I don't actually believe that, but any Pokemon can be made boring if you describe them without any regard for nuance or accuracy (why do you keep comparing Arcanine to only Pyroar when canine is literally in its name).

Learn to temper your opinions. Don't hate designs just because they don't specifically appeal to you. Not care about? Sure. Dislike if there are parts that rub you the wrong way? Go ahead. But save hate for designs that you find actively and viscerally uncomfortable or upsetting to look at. And never ever ever make it sound like you think your opinions are fact

IDK why but the majority of the fanbase likes plain pokemon

we all know that Charizard is the worst mon ever

I don't get people saying it's badass or something.. it's NOT.

Arcanine looks too boring. It's just a fire lion

The same goes for Gyarados, Snorlax, and Metagross. They all look boring.

Also, can we talk about how people who stans gen 1 saying that other gen especially gen 5 that the pokemon are uncreative? LOOK AT GEN 1 MONS. A thumb sticking out of the ground, a Pokeball, a normal dragon that breathes fire with a firetail, a fat bear-like cmon! Their excuse is just "They're Iconic" or something.

because it makes you sound like a pompous jerk, and people will be less likely to take your words seriously and more likely to dunk on you with one liners.

 

[SillierCrayon]

I don't like a bunch of mega designs. A bunch just add more spikes, or something along those lines.

Spiked ones

I mean some megas do look cool, which is obviously the point, it's just that some of the changes are kinda lame.

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

Even if I agree with you for some mons, calling older Pokemon boring and uninspired is totally wrong. They may look like rudimentary compared to the new ones and creating Pokemon like them would'nt work today but calling them uninspired is a pretty disingenuous shortcut. Furthermore, don't forget that was the genesis of the licence, pretty much everything was still to be invented and certain Pokemon were created under specifications, such as Pikachu or Eevee.

Pokémon from the older generations are not immune to criticism. While I agree that it is wrong to call them uninspired (more about that further below), people are free to criticize or dislike them for pretty much any other reason, such as thinking they are boring. Personally, I got into Pokémon back during Gen 1, but nowadays I find a large amount of the Gen 1 Pokémon to have boring and uninteresting designs. I don't think they have aged particularly well, which combined with the large amount of focus they get in both official media and the fandom has soured my opinion of them even further. Sometimes, I wonder if one other possible reason Game Freak and TPCi give so many new forms to Pokémon from Gen 1 is because they also find them boring and feel that they need to be spiced up? Probably not, I guess they only do it for easy marketing, but it was something I thought of. Also, just because the Gen 1 Pokémon were the first or "the genesis of the licence" or whatever does not mean that they should be given a free pass from any criticism, be put on a piedestal or given special treatment compared to the other generations. They can still be criticized, as long as the reasons behind the criticism are valid.

As for calling a Pokémon "uninspired", I agree that it is wrong. Because in reality, all Pokémon from all generations take inspiration from something, so calling them uninspired is pretty much objectively wrong. That said, people might not like what certain Pokémon are inspired by, or the end result when comparing the final Pokémon design to what it is inspired by. Take Arcanine, for instance. It takes inspiration from all of the things you listed, and that is actually pretty cool. Sadly, I still find Arcanine to have a pretty boring design. It is inspired by all the things you listed, yet it looks just like a generic and boring old dog (in my opinion, at least). Looking at it from this perspective, it is almost sad to see how they took inspiration from so many cool things, yet ended up with such a boring design in the end. Don't know if this is unpopular, but I honestly think that Arcanine has a pretty boring design. I feel that it is one of the many Gen 1 Pokémon which could benefit from being spiced up in some cool way, like getting a Mega, a regional variant, another new form of some kind, or even a GMax form. In comparison, I think Charizard has a pretty boring design as well, but I really like Mega Charizard X. It "fixed" Charizard for me and made it really cool, it is easily my favorite from the Kanto starter Megas. I also prefer other dog-like Pokémon over Arcanine, such as Stoutland, Manectric and Boltund, I think they are much cooler than Arcanine.

 

[FangFoe]

Trubbish is just a bag of trash, Chingling is just a bell, and Chandelure is just a chandelier, therefore they are boring, and also uncreative and ugly. I don't actually believe that, but any Pokemon can be made boring if you describe them without any regard for nuance or accuracy (why do you keep comparing Arcanine to only Pyroar when canine is literally in its name).

I know that Trubbish is a bag of trash, and Chandelure is just a chandelier, i know if you describe them like that it sounds boring. But in reality, I said those mons are boring because I felt there's nothing that stands out to me. Like for example, Chandelure may be just a chandelier, but the color of the flames, and the face with the yellow eyes make it looks cool. While mons that i think are boring like Arcanine, I look at his design and there's nothing that stands out to me. Also I compare Arcanine to Pyroar because they both look similar. I think that Arcanine is boring not because I see it and said "OH just a dog boring" when in reality I think Arcanine is boring simply because of its design. It Doesn't stand out and have nothing interesting in it. Not because I think the design is "just a dog" because even if there's a pokemon who is just a fire rat if it looks cool or have anything that stands out i would think its not boring.

Learn to temper your opinions. Don't hate designs just because they don't specifically appeal to you. Not care about? Sure. Dislike if there are parts that rub you the wrong way? Go ahead. But save hate for designs that you find actively and viscerally uncomfortable or upsetting to look at. And never ever ever make it sound like you think your opinions are fact


because it makes you sound like a pompous jerk, and people will be less likely to take your words seriously and more likely to dunk on you with one liners.

Ok so I live in a country where english isn't a really used language so alot of them is just me being a bad writer.
Hating designs because they doesn't appeal to you is kinda the point to dislike them?
And my intention is that all of them is just what I think.
But ty for reminding me about that, can we end this conversation now? I kinda wanna move on and blame it on myself if something's wrong

 

[Sonikku A]

I don't like a bunch of mega designs. A bunch just add more spikes, or something along those lines.

Spiked ones

I mean some megas do look cool, which is obviously the point, it's just that some of the changes are kinda lame.

They took the Gen 4 philosophy of accessorizing

 

[Bakugames]

I keep forgetting how ugly Lucario is until I see it somewhere and I go "what the fuck were they smoking".
It looks like a poor mismatch of 2008 cool teen trends + ooooo cool jackal. It goes too cool and it just loops around on being dumb but not the good and funny kinda dumb.