Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

[Hogg]

It was definitely the right thing to do, so I definitely applaud everyone who contributed to help the GOP office rebuild. That being said, Republicans are great at offering their thoughts and prayers to victims of otherwise avoidable tragedies while doing absolute jack shit to actually address the problem. So with that in mind, my thoughts and prayers are going out to the NC GOP (but not much else). Hope they find it helpful.

 

[Soul Fly]

Think of George Soros as Emperor Palpatine & Hillary Clinton as Darth Vader.

Yes. A video that refers to Black Lives matter a "terrorist organization", can't possibly be biased, and must be the pinnacle of investigative journalism.

 

[TheValkyries]

It was definitely the right thing to do, so I definitely applaud everyone who contributed to help the GOP office rebuild. That being said, Republicans are great at offering their thoughts and prayers to victims of otherwise avoidable tragedies while doing absolute jack shit to actually address the problem. So with that in mind, my thoughts and prayers are going out to the NC GOP (but not much else). Hope they find it helpful.

Not only that, but we can rub it in the faces of RWNJs, and show that even the establishment aren't dicks, and then ask them why they have to be?

Look people are already cashing in their rhetorical tokens of superiority. Wow so damn glad the dems paid 13k to the GOP instead of helping communities in need so we can act morally superior to people on the internet.


Still waiting on why exactly it's the right thing to do to raise money for the GOP. Should the dems be running gofundmes for the republicans all the time? Would you donate to them right now? Would you have donated to them before?

 

[thesecondbest]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/18/a...ent-chicago-protests-was-on-hillarys-payroll/
Now what excuses do you guys have? And yes the source is biased but they have video proof. But I'm sure that this is Trump's fault...

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Look people are already cashing in their rhetorical tokens of superiority. Wow so damn glad the dems paid 13k to the GOP instead of helping communities in need so we can act morally superior to people on the internet.

Still waiting on why exactly it's the right thing to do to raise money for the GOP. Should the dems be running gofundmes for the republicans all the time? Would you donate to them right now? Would you have donated to them before?

Haven't you answered your own questions? Surprise, a lot of politicians empathize more strongly with their opposition in the same field than the marginalized communities they claim to represent. It's good PR, too: people will cling to anything that disrupts the typical narrative of political division, and that's going to be the prevailing interpretation, not the "apology and payoff" view espoused only by right-wing conspiracy theorists. You might argue that a simple statement would suffice, but when you compare the restoration of a GOP office to the restoration of a random Black church, then it's pretty easy to see which is the better donation from a PR standpoint. The general public cares more about one than the other. Similarly, the DNC can get away with supporting economic turmoil in NC because the damage involves abstractions, not explosions, and non-NC residents are less prone to outrage over the former.

Sure, the DNC is shooting its own purported cause(s) in the foot, but are you actually surprised by that, or are you just trying to make a point?

 

[JES]

Look people are already cashing in their rhetorical tokens of superiority. Wow so damn glad the dems paid 13k to the GOP instead of helping communities in need so we can act morally superior to people on the internet.


Still waiting on why exactly it's the right thing to do to raise money for the GOP. Should the dems be running gofundmes for the republicans all the time? Would you donate to them right now? Would you have donated to them before?

That way, if (or should I say when) one of those RWNJs firebomb one of the DP counterparts, then the GOP will either return the favor that has been given to them, or lambasted.

Maybe that 13K should have been shunted to helping communities instead? That is of course your opinion. Maybe you're right. Maybe not. It is probably more of a grey area, like most things.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Look people are already cashing in their rhetorical tokens of superiority. Wow so damn glad the dems paid 13k to the GOP instead of helping communities in need so we can act morally superior to people on the internet.


Still waiting on why exactly it's the right thing to do to raise money for the GOP. Should the dems be running gofundmes for the republicans all the time? Would you donate to them right now? Would you have donated to them before?

I'm really glad they raised the money for their opposition. I live in Orange County, NC, and the race here is really close. Our governor is the worst, and the Democratic opposition actually has a shot. This incident has the potential to become a serious talking point here, and I really hope the fact that the Democrats made this gesture of good faith puts this matter to rest. If the Democrats lose here because of this incident, we're in for more years with the governor that has ruined business and education in this state.

 

[TheValkyries]

Eo Ut Mortus I'm not surprised but I am making the point that a lack of surprise does not absolve them from criticism.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

If you're going to criticize spending of money on anything BUT "helping communities in need", why don't you start funneling 100% of your money towards helping the community? The DNC isn't a charity, it's a political organization designed to get their candidates elected. By putting that money towards the opposition, they are helping their candidates get elected.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trumps-five-point-plan-for-ethics-reform

Anybody seen this yet? It seems Trump has massively swung positions, capitalizing on the victimhood of his leaked tapes, the fact that Hillary is "bought for" thanks to WikiLeaks, and his own anti-establishment "I represent YOU!" background to somehow bring libertarian / fringe policies like term limits and anti-lobbying into the mainstream.

Given how many people actually dislike the government and refuse to vote in the "rigged two party system", this could be a very dangerous proposal. If trump wins, I would call this the crucial moment.

 

[Bughouse]

term limits and cutting down on lobbying are not libertarian nor fringe policies

they're policies that have reasonably bipartisan support but don't pass because the people who would need to pass the laws changing the process are personally hurt by it and no one cares enough to make that be the deciding factor in voting them out of office.

 

[gali]

http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/18/a...ent-chicago-protests-was-on-hillarys-payroll/
Now what excuses do you guys have? And yes the source is biased but they have video proof. But I'm sure that this is Trump's fault...

james o'keefe has a long track record of heavily editing tapes to push an agenda regardless of what was actually said (he was the guy behind the ACORN video in 2009). anything he publishes is going to be like that. he has no credibility as a journalist except among far-right types who have been parroting the "clinton is literally satan" thing for decades.

 

[GatoDelFuego]

term limits and cutting down on lobbying are not libertarian nor fringe policies

they're policies that have reasonably bipartisan support but don't pass because the people who would need to pass the laws changing the process are personally hurt by it and no one cares enough to make that be the deciding factor in voting them out of office.

As far as I'm aware, for the past several election cycles the only supporter of term limits for congress in the final vote has been Johnson. Libertarian senator Rand Paul introduced the USTL amendment twice to enforce term limits. As for anti-lobbying, sure that's not a direct libertarian stance, neither is term limits I suppose. They are popular opinions held at > 85% support by all parties by voters themselves. However support in congress for these is largely lacking on all sides.

 

[BuzzkillAmpharos]

For this election, I think I have taken away a few things. One is that Trump garnered much of his support by filling a niche, and I'm not sure how big that niche is, but that'll be shown on November 8th. Now, thst niche is thst he is a voice of reason for all of those who feel pressured from all sides about everything in the world right now.

Now about Clinton, I think you can just tell how much of an elitist party the democrats have become just from Hilary alone. Going with the parties I feel that with the republicans being conservative(barring trump lol) and the democrats being liberals, the lack of diversity in the parties has hurt politics in the US a lot, nonetheless they still go strong.

 

[Yoshi King]

What a shitshow that debate was. Apparently I missed Trump being calm for the first half hour of it, which must have been something else. At least (from all I saw) there was no more completely untrue shit about Canada's healthcare system being spouted by Trump. Fuck him and his lies, America needs to get with the fucking program on that at least and I hope some strides will be made this time around.

(Before anyone tries to make a case about wait times, give your head a shake. My father discovered he had an aneurysm right beneath his heart and was put in a hospital, then got surgery within 12 hours. I think I can stand to wait for three hours in the ER with a broken wrist while far more important issues are addressed for other patients. Yes I'm pissed off/touchy about this issue and how people are selfish, entitled fucks.)

And to those non-Americans, how funny is it that one of those people will be our president?

You people deserved Bernie. Too bad about that one. I'd rather see Clinton, liar though she may be, as your president than an outright misogynistic psycho who denies any and all blame for anything, ever.

 

[Empress]

That wasn't very nice at all, Trump. Do you realize how awful and demoralizing it is to be called what literally translates to "(a) bad hunger?" How dare you poke fun at the fact that I haven't eaten in 11 hours!

 

[Bughouse]

look at this bad ombre

 

[kd24]

can someone explain the big deal about him not accepting election results? this seems to be the big turning point for undecided voters instead of the countless other terrible things this guy has said / done...but i still refuse to believe bush beat gore legitimately, i remember everyone saying it was rigged against bernie earlier this year, and quite frankly ive heard nothing but stories of repubs rigging elections by pushing id requirements or gerrymandering. has everyone here lost their mind or is it just me because i would definitely not blindly say i trust the results either without seeing what happens, especially with how much corruption can and has existed through history.

that being said both of these candidates are terrible, i watched the debate last night. trump acted like a little kid, he told some lies, and when pushed on plans he just said we are gonna have a plan for that or its going to be great, trust me. hes says his lines like a salesman, not confident like a president. and he accuses hill and obama of being dictators who are tricking the people of the country but at same time they are outwitted by every other country in every facet, innovation, trade, war, etc.

that being said, hillary constantly deflected questions last night too and also couldnt answer anything. the mod was saying that both of their economic plans were ineffective and doomed us. i have no idea if thats true or not so i wanted to hear one of them address it. trump i think was talking about other countries still and hillary couldnt give an actual response. why cant she just be like "i disagree with your findings, my team has looked at my plan and we're confident it'll do well" or "this plan is the building blocks down the road, you're right it wont immediately fix things but it provides us a chance to" or something.

 

[Hogg]

The problem is that Trump has already built up a narrative where the election is being stolen from him. You can see this in his speech where he encourages people to go out to "certain areas" and monitor polls (a classic form of voter intimidation that has explicitly been deemed illegal). You can see it again and again with his claims that the media has been unfair to him and against him, despite the fact that he has had more active coverage than any candidate in history, and that the media largely gave him a pass on his inflammatory statements for the first several months of his campaign. You could see it last night with his statements that Hillary should never have been allowed to run for president; there is clearly no way that he is willing to accept this election as legitimate when he has now in the last two debates argued that Hillary is ineligible and even promised to arrest her if elected. Now he is repeating thoroughly debunked urban legends about deceased voters casting votes and "millions" of non-citizens voting, trying to create a story where the Democratic Party is stealing the election away from him. (Why he thinks that would be necessary is a mystery to me - the gap in their polling has reached a historic point, and literally no candidate in history has ever come back from such a large polling deficit. At this point stealing the election would not just be difficult and impractical - it would be almost unnecessary.)

Fighting voter fraud or seeking to correct it is certainly not a bad thing, and if there is actual evidence of real fraud in this election it should of course be addressed. But what Trump is doing is creating a story where ANY ending other than him taking office will be illegitimate, and by refusing to say that he would accept a legitimate Clinton victory, he is leaving the door open for his followers to push back against the results of this election.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Speaking of Donald Trump and if he'll accept the election results, he's said he would......

If he wins.

Welcome to the destruction of American democracy. At this rate, it's beginning to look like Trump will have to be court-ordered to concede the election to Clinton or something.

 

[manodelrey]

How dare Trump doubt the election results- everyone calling the 2000 and 2004 election result fraudulent. What a fucking joke this press is

 

[Aberforth]

You do realise why people are concerned right? The idea that he refuses to concede after he loses, which almost every poll has him doing by a quite considerable margin, and stirring up his crowds more can be dangerous. He's cultivating a revolution to go against a democratic result. After the Supreme Court decision, Al Gore didn't go to his supporters and say "We totally won, despite what the biased media and Supreme Court say, lets do something about this miscarriage of justice and revolt" or anything like that, he conceded to Bush.

If even the Fox News anchor knows that it's a bad thing to do as republican candidate, stop being stupidly blind over Trump and admit that it is dangerous.

 

[DTC]

Keep in mind the Al Gore and Bush race was super fucking close, Gore literally lost Florida (a major swing state) by 537 votes while winning the popular vote. In addition, there were actual legitimate issues with the Florida voting (butterfly ballots).

In this election, if you give Donald Trump a +4.5 curve in every state, he still loses the election to Hillary Clinton based on the averages of all the polls. Donald Trump is getting smoked.

Well, it's not fair to say Donald Trump is being smoked -- he is up by 3 in the battleground state of Texas!

You need to stop being a bad attempt at a conspiracy theorist, manodelrey.

 

[Aberforth]

Problems I have with Trump's campaign:

• His economic plan is bogus and wont work, his defence of this is that everyone else is wrong and that he's right cause fuck everyone.
• Climate Change. He thinks it's a Hoax by the Chinese. Just by this I would vote against him if I was allowed to.
• Abortion - I dont think the Government should have much say on Abortions and if a woman should be limited on getting one outside of if the Baby is due in about a week or so, he opposes all except in extreme cases.
• Guns - I'm anti-gun. But I'm also from a western country not named America so that's pretty much a given.
• Immigration: The Boarder Wall wont work and is a huge waste of taxpayer money, his comments about restricting access to America based on religion is horrifying to me, and not as a muslim but as an atheist.
• His complete lack of understanding of Trade Deals (eg NAFTA is considered by all except him to have been a good deal)
• Same Sex Marriage: Much like abortion I dont really think the Government should be allowed to restrict people from getting married outside of extreme cases (incest or with a minor).
• Heath Care: I have significant doubts about how well his health care plan would work due to the nature of Oligarchies.
• Anti-Globalism: Just personal, but I am much more of a globalist than he is.
• He wants to renew the Patriot Act. I do not.
• He is advocating for unconstitutional practices that have proven to be racist - stop and frisk - without looking at the success rate of these practices (no noticeable impact in New York).
• He is using dangerous rhetoric regarding the use of nuclear weapons that sets me on edge regarding his defence policy.
• Speaking of defence, he has no clear plan on how to do the things he promises ("we're going to defeat Isis" "how" "we will, that's how").

So shut the fuck up by telling me I cant construct an argument against Trump's policies and that I dont know shit. I have reservations about Clinton of course, but implying that the two are anywhere close to on the same level is ludicrous at best.

And this is just looking at Trump's policies, if we're bringing shit like Clinton's emails into the mix then stuff like Trump University, the Trump Foundation and him not paying taxes are fair game too, which just shoot him lower.

 

[thesecondbest]

Problems I have with Trump's campaign:

• His economic plan is bogus and wont work, his defence of this is that everyone else is wrong and that he's right cause fuck everyone.
• Climate Change. He thinks it's a Hoax by the Chinese. Just by this I would vote against him if I was allowed to.
• Abortion - I dont think the Government should have much say on Abortions and if a woman should be limited on getting one outside of if the Baby is due in about a week or so, he opposes all except in extreme cases.
• Guns - I'm anti-gun. But I'm also from a western country not named America so that's pretty much a given.
• Immigration: The Boarder Wall wont work and is a huge waste of taxpayer money, his comments about restricting access to America based on religion is horrifying to me, and not as a muslim but as an atheist.
• His complete lack of understanding of Trade Deals (eg NAFTA is considered by all except him to have been a good deal)
• Same Sex Marriage: Much like abortion I dont really think the Government should be allowed to restrict people from getting married outside of extreme cases (incest or with a minor).
• Heath Care: I have significant doubts about how well his health care plan would work due to the nature of Oligarchies.
• Anti-Globalism: Just personal, but I am much more of a globalist than he is.
• He wants to renew the Patriot Act. I do not.
• He is advocating for unconstitutional practices that have proven to be racist - stop and frisk - without looking at the success rate of these practices (no noticeable impact in New York).
• He is using dangerous rhetoric regarding the use of nuclear weapons that sets me on edge regarding his defence policy.
• Speaking of defence, he has no clear plan on how to do the things he promises ("we're going to defeat Isis" "how" "we will, that's how").

So shut the fuck up by telling me I cant construct an argument against Trump's policies and that I dont know shit. I have reservations about Clinton of course, but implying that the two are anywhere close to on the same level is ludicrous at best.

And this is just looking at Trump's policies, if we're bringing shit like Clinton's emails into the mix then stuff like Trump University, the Trump Foundation and him not paying taxes are fair game too, which just shoot him lower.

Economic plan: Agree with you here, Reaganomics doesn't really work. +1 Clinton
Climate Change: Can't defend Trump here. +1 Clinton
Abortion: This is an issue Trump doesn't care about, he's just pandering to his base. http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm proof of how hiw views were pretty liberal but have moved to the right just to get voters. Even
Guns: Hillary wants to sue gun manufacturers if someone uses their gun in a murder. That's fucking stupid. That's like suing plate companies if you get a rotten dish. Also, do a statistical regression on gun ownership in states vs gun homicide rate. You see there is a slight inverse correlation (like .6) that more guns = less crime after removing the outlier of DC. And both are pro no-fly, no-buy, which is a reasonable policy. Overall, hillary is way too far left, trump maybe a little bit right. +1 Trump
Immigration: Yeah the wall is fucking stupid but the Temporary muslim ban is legit, look at all the problems Europe has with "Syrian refugees" who end up being economic migrants who come in just for welfare. And I say this as an atheist who looks like a Muslim. I understand the doctrines of Islam are anti woman, anti gay, and anti freedom. Look at communities in England, listen to interviews of Tommy Robinson. He's not racist, neither am I. So yes, I am anti importing refugees. But the wall is way too costly and stupid so the two cancel out. Even
Trade Deals: Whatever you think, it's clear the people are with Trump here. Hell, bernie hated the tpp too and between trump and bernie hillary flipped her position. But i'll call this one even because i am also pro free trade (go gary).
Same sex marriage: same thing with abortion, just pandering to his base. http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Donald_Trump_Civil_Rights.htm He came out against hate crimes in 2000, has said the issue has been settled and he won't overturn it. And he's a new yorker who used to be a democrat. He was easily the most socially liberal candidate in the Republican primary. He openly courts gay voters, something I don't think any other nominee has ever done for the Republicans. Peter Thiel, a respectable gay man, endorsed Trump.
Plus Hillary wasn't pro gay marriage until 2013. Even Dick Cheney was pro gay marriage before hillary! (http://www.politifact.com/colorado/...cking-gary-johnson-says-dick-cheney-supporte/ and politifact is super pro hillary lol) But I'll be honest, she's better than he is, but it's not like he's completely terrible +.5 Clinton.
Health Care: Yeah, he doesn't know what he's saying, but obamacare is pretty dumb too, so +.5 hillary
Anti-Globalism: Fuck globalism. That's the reason profits go to the one percent instead of the people. The corporations left wingers claim to hate benefit the most from it. +1 Trump
Patriot Act: Are you shitting me? HILLARY VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT IN CONGRESS. Even
Stop and Frisk: Yeah this is undefensible as well. +1 Clinton
Nuclear Weapons: Excuse me? Dangerous Rhetoric? Who wants to implement a no flyzone after admitting that leads to massive civilian casualties in the emails? Who want to go to world war 3 with russia over fucking syria? Hillary. She is way more of a warmonger than trump. +2 Trump just because this russia shit is so dumb. It reeks of the cold war - do you want more of that? Vote hillary then. But I don't.
Defense: Yeah he doesn't know what he's doing but hillary did bad things. She voted for the Iraq War, unleashed isis in libya (this is independent of benghazi, i'm saying taking out gaddafi was dumb) and she also wants to take out Assad. She did create ISIS by voting for Iraq, taking out Hussein, and wants to arm "rebels" in Syria again so more fucking groups can arise. Can we stop with this nation building garbage? +1 Trump.

Overall, my record is Trump +1. Obviously you may think hillary +2 or something, but saying Trump's policies are bad without looking at the alternative is very intellectually dishonest. They both suck ass, so vote Gary.

And then you want to talk scandals. Here's the difference between Trump and Hillary - only one's scandals affected national security. Only one spilled out government secrets (4 minutes to launch, 17 intelligence organizations) on the debate stage. Only one hosts her classified emails on a private server with worse security than gmail, and then deletes them after getting a subpoena. So yes, we can talk scandals. Both did shady shit. But only one harmed national security. She broke the law. And Hillary also rigged the primary in her favor. We know that DNC insiders were blatantly pro Hillary. We know Sanders favored counties in New York had reduced hours so hillary could win. We know superdelegates are bullshit and undemocratic. So yes, I am scared that the election will be rigged, because the primary was.

You wanna debate? Then let's debate. Hopefully we can do this without calling each other racist or homophobic.

 

[dice]

no fly no buy is not very reasonable.