-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Metagame USUM Memetagame Discussion was a mistake
- Thread starter Gary
- Start date
- Status
I don't think it'll have much of an impact on the meta. Mostly because Toxapex only takes around half from earthpower at +1 and can just haze away your boosts.
And it's total setup bait for Hawlucha if you're running seedflare/earthpower/HPfire which is the main set I've seen floating around.
Last edited:
Hi guys,
I wanted to drop a pre-warning here before the discussion continues. Feel free to discuss Celebrate Shaymin in OU, but just a reminder to stay away from theorymonning. Don’t post about it (or most other mons for that matter) unless you’ve played either with it or against it for at least a couple significant games. Thanks!
I wanted to drop a pre-warning here before the discussion continues. Feel free to discuss Celebrate Shaymin in OU, but just a reminder to stay away from theorymonning. Don’t post about it (or most other mons for that matter) unless you’ve played either with it or against it for at least a couple significant games. Thanks!
Hi friends, this isn't anything new, but I've been experimenting with this to take advantage of metagame trends and I've been finding nice success with this combo:
Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam
Kyurem-Black @ Electrium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
With the rise of Gastrodon cores and Jirachi, most of the popular Kyurem-B variants have been rendered useless or at least easily answered. This Kyurem-B set aims to solve a couple of those issues and then some. Tapu Koko is a pretty obvious partner, but since Kyu-B isn't running HP Fire, Specs HP Fire Koko leverages vs that a fair bit, in theory Scarf Magnezone also helps out. The premise here is that thanks to Gigavolt Havoc, Kyurem is able to utterly decimate Jirachi (and Magearna) with either Electric Terrain, or a Hone Claws boost which is often the biggest pain for it.
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 395-465 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in Electric Terrain: 395-465 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna in Electric Terrain: 350-412 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Electric Terrain: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
But then you'll be like A, why are you still running Hone Claws if Tapu Koko's terrain does the job? Well it mostly helps vs Quagsire, as uninvested Ice Beam does under half, and unboosted Dragon Claw tickles. +1 on the other hand with Teravolt, allows you to 2HKO.
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And it addition, it also just helps you pull off the Gigavolt knockouts without Tapu Koko, if the situation ever calls for it. Dragon Claw also eviscerates our good friend Gastrodon, which is rather important. Ice Beam is a staple and is pretty self-explanatory. Another cool thing about this is that most stall variants are going to have a hard time versus this Kyurem-B (though it really wishes it could run Substitute in that 5th slot! If you do decide with that, run 56 HP to make your HP 405 to avoid Seismic Toss from breaking it, so you can freely setup vs Chansey).
(disclaimer if you dont like hone claws run smth else, roost is p good and so is earth power)
Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Dazzling Gleam
Kyurem-Black @ Electrium Z
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam
- Hone Claws
- Fusion Bolt
With the rise of Gastrodon cores and Jirachi, most of the popular Kyurem-B variants have been rendered useless or at least easily answered. This Kyurem-B set aims to solve a couple of those issues and then some. Tapu Koko is a pretty obvious partner, but since Kyu-B isn't running HP Fire, Specs HP Fire Koko leverages vs that a fair bit, in theory Scarf Magnezone also helps out. The premise here is that thanks to Gigavolt Havoc, Kyurem is able to utterly decimate Jirachi (and Magearna) with either Electric Terrain, or a Hone Claws boost which is often the biggest pain for it.
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 395-465 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in Electric Terrain: 395-465 (98 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna in Electric Terrain: 350-412 (96.4 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Gigavolt Havoc (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable in Electric Terrain: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
But then you'll be like A, why are you still running Hone Claws if Tapu Koko's terrain does the job? Well it mostly helps vs Quagsire, as uninvested Ice Beam does under half, and unboosted Dragon Claw tickles. +1 on the other hand with Teravolt, allows you to 2HKO.
+1 252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And it addition, it also just helps you pull off the Gigavolt knockouts without Tapu Koko, if the situation ever calls for it. Dragon Claw also eviscerates our good friend Gastrodon, which is rather important. Ice Beam is a staple and is pretty self-explanatory. Another cool thing about this is that most stall variants are going to have a hard time versus this Kyurem-B (though it really wishes it could run Substitute in that 5th slot! If you do decide with that, run 56 HP to make your HP 405 to avoid Seismic Toss from breaking it, so you can freely setup vs Chansey).
(disclaimer if you dont like hone claws run smth else, roost is p good and so is earth power)
Last edited:
I’m not even going to pretend that I’m really up to date on the current metagame (it’s why you don’t see me in here/the VR anymore); competitive ‘mons has kinda been something that I’ve put aside until at least gen 8 (likely longer) outside of projects that aren’t heavily dependent on anything more than fundamentals and a rough understanding of a not-totally-ancient meta state just because I just don’t find the gen 7 formats in their current states at all fun; this is due to a number of issues that I’ve been… uh… very vocal about in the OU discord. But yeah I’m not here to talk about that, it was more of an aside and a disclaimer. Wall incoming.
AAANYWAY, I skimmed A’s post and saw Specs Koko in there and I just thought I’d make a general comment about the mon that I’ve been kinda sitting on for a while; it’s not really something that has changed with meta shifts so I feel qualified to talk about it. I personally do not think (and never have thought) that Specs Koko is a very good set. Now, this isn’t to call it a bad set, but more that it’s “just ok” (for lack of a better term)—I am fully aware of just how terrifying its Volt Switches can get when you have no electric immunities left to take it on, and I have been in situations both where I have been unable to do anything versus it other than let something drop to stop a situation that can’t be recovered from and where I have forced my opponent into the same position with Specs Koko of my own. However, I’ve always found that it is an incredibly awkward Pokemon to use, especially when conpared to both other Tapu Koko sets and to other choiced attackers, just due to the way that OU has functioned throughout this generation and as such it’s never been a Pokemon that I have enjoyed using just due to the more-than-average number of hoops you need to jump through both with regards to integrating it into its team effectively and with regards to addressing in the many auto-lose routes that an incorrect Koko lock can open up into your wider game plan, full in the knowledge that it is one of very few viable choiced breakers/momentum grabbers in the format which virtually never has an objective “correct lock” to fall back on until very specific conditions are met.
More specifically, what I mean by this is that classic thing which has always annoyed me about Electric-types, Electric-type coverage moves, and Volt Switch as a whole: Electric is a god-awful type to be locked into when the metagame is, by and large, run by Ground-types. Now, by “run by Ground-types” I don’t mean that it is primarily centralised around their presence; such a description would be straight-up wrong in a metagame that is completely and utterly warped by the toxic (forgive the pun) presence of Toxapex and the other “big boys” in this psuedobalanced metagame—once again, that is an aside and a topic for another thread that I’m going to leave there (i.e. don’t reply to it). Instead, what I mean is that in order for a team to be viable in any playstyle in the metagame (aside from maybe stall) it is almost mandatory for it to carry at least one Ground-type just due to the totally stupid threat pool (especially because of Tapu Koko, funnily enough), and especially in the case of the main one (Lando-T) it can feel like you are playing with a handicap until Electric immunities removed from the picture due to just how detrimental any incorrect lock is to the Tapu Koko user. If you lock into Volt Switch either as they switch in or as they don’t switch out when you “force” them out with the threat if Gleam/HP Ice you will be punished very heavily for it, and if you use HP Ice or Dazzling Gleam at the wrong time you will also be punished for it in an similarly heavy manner. Even if they are heavily weakened it is like walking a tightrope until they are actually removed from the game as a whole just due to how punishing they are able to be, whether that be due to their ability to set up (see: Zygarde vs Volt Switch, Volcarona vs HP Ice/Gleam, Magearna vs HP Ice/Gleam, SD Gliscor vs Volt Switch etc.) or their abiltiy to totally flip the game’s momentum on its head in a single turn to generate a situation which is impossible for the Koko player to recover from without substantial losses (mainly looking at Lando-T here).
Of course this is an issue whenever anything switches into any move it’s immune to, but unlike unchoiced Pokemon which often have ways of alleviating these issues (e.g. Heatran’s Earth Power means it can force a stalemate situation where both players are forced out or can still win on a speed tie with opposing Heatran) there is absolutely nothing that Tapu Koko can do about it without wasting turns (forced out, double Volting vs something and banking on it not setting up etc.), taking very large risks (e.g. volting vs Scarf Lando or Zygarde expecting a U-turn/double switch), or relying on multiple consecutive correct hard reads to recover from them (e.g. vs defensive lando, expecting a U-turn and then making an aggressive double as they go back to Lando to block the third Volt Switch). It’s also an issue for just about ever Specs/Scarf user under the sun, but it is just a lot more exaggerated for Tapu Koko than it is for most others because its STAB has a very awkward immunity and is its pivoting move (when compared to something like Scarf Lando, which also has a common+awkward STAB immunity but pivots with a different move that lacks any immunities).
Idk what I was trying to accomplish with this post; it’s more just commentary on the set and a major issue that makes me not really the most comfortable with it compared to other Tapu Koko stuff; I’m not really arguing that you shouldn’t use it and more just venting about how painful a set it is to use sometimes lol. Anyway, late-night rant over; enjoy your evenings or whatever ig, I’ll try to be more coherent/purposeful next time I make a non-project post but I can’t promise anything lol.
AAANYWAY, I skimmed A’s post and saw Specs Koko in there and I just thought I’d make a general comment about the mon that I’ve been kinda sitting on for a while; it’s not really something that has changed with meta shifts so I feel qualified to talk about it. I personally do not think (and never have thought) that Specs Koko is a very good set. Now, this isn’t to call it a bad set, but more that it’s “just ok” (for lack of a better term)—I am fully aware of just how terrifying its Volt Switches can get when you have no electric immunities left to take it on, and I have been in situations both where I have been unable to do anything versus it other than let something drop to stop a situation that can’t be recovered from and where I have forced my opponent into the same position with Specs Koko of my own. However, I’ve always found that it is an incredibly awkward Pokemon to use, especially when conpared to both other Tapu Koko sets and to other choiced attackers, just due to the way that OU has functioned throughout this generation and as such it’s never been a Pokemon that I have enjoyed using just due to the more-than-average number of hoops you need to jump through both with regards to integrating it into its team effectively and with regards to addressing in the many auto-lose routes that an incorrect Koko lock can open up into your wider game plan, full in the knowledge that it is one of very few viable choiced breakers/momentum grabbers in the format which virtually never has an objective “correct lock” to fall back on until very specific conditions are met.
More specifically, what I mean by this is that classic thing which has always annoyed me about Electric-types, Electric-type coverage moves, and Volt Switch as a whole: Electric is a god-awful type to be locked into when the metagame is, by and large, run by Ground-types. Now, by “run by Ground-types” I don’t mean that it is primarily centralised around their presence; such a description would be straight-up wrong in a metagame that is completely and utterly warped by the toxic (forgive the pun) presence of Toxapex and the other “big boys” in this psuedobalanced metagame—once again, that is an aside and a topic for another thread that I’m going to leave there (i.e. don’t reply to it). Instead, what I mean is that in order for a team to be viable in any playstyle in the metagame (aside from maybe stall) it is almost mandatory for it to carry at least one Ground-type just due to the totally stupid threat pool (especially because of Tapu Koko, funnily enough), and especially in the case of the main one (Lando-T) it can feel like you are playing with a handicap until Electric immunities removed from the picture due to just how detrimental any incorrect lock is to the Tapu Koko user. If you lock into Volt Switch either as they switch in or as they don’t switch out when you “force” them out with the threat if Gleam/HP Ice you will be punished very heavily for it, and if you use HP Ice or Dazzling Gleam at the wrong time you will also be punished for it in an similarly heavy manner. Even if they are heavily weakened it is like walking a tightrope until they are actually removed from the game as a whole just due to how punishing they are able to be, whether that be due to their ability to set up (see: Zygarde vs Volt Switch, Volcarona vs HP Ice/Gleam, Magearna vs HP Ice/Gleam, SD Gliscor vs Volt Switch etc.) or their abiltiy to totally flip the game’s momentum on its head in a single turn to generate a situation which is impossible for the Koko player to recover from without substantial losses (mainly looking at Lando-T here).
Of course this is an issue whenever anything switches into any move it’s immune to, but unlike unchoiced Pokemon which often have ways of alleviating these issues (e.g. Heatran’s Earth Power means it can force a stalemate situation where both players are forced out or can still win on a speed tie with opposing Heatran) there is absolutely nothing that Tapu Koko can do about it without wasting turns (forced out, double Volting vs something and banking on it not setting up etc.), taking very large risks (e.g. volting vs Scarf Lando or Zygarde expecting a U-turn/double switch), or relying on multiple consecutive correct hard reads to recover from them (e.g. vs defensive lando, expecting a U-turn and then making an aggressive double as they go back to Lando to block the third Volt Switch). It’s also an issue for just about ever Specs/Scarf user under the sun, but it is just a lot more exaggerated for Tapu Koko than it is for most others because its STAB has a very awkward immunity and is its pivoting move (when compared to something like Scarf Lando, which also has a common+awkward STAB immunity but pivots with a different move that lacks any immunities).
Idk what I was trying to accomplish with this post; it’s more just commentary on the set and a major issue that makes me not really the most comfortable with it compared to other Tapu Koko stuff; I’m not really arguing that you shouldn’t use it and more just venting about how painful a set it is to use sometimes lol. Anyway, late-night rant over; enjoy your evenings or whatever ig, I’ll try to be more coherent/purposeful next time I make a non-project post but I can’t promise anything lol.
Last edited:
what else can I do on sick days other than post giant posts?
So I wanted to basically talk about my personal favourite mons in the meta, because I really wanted to hear other opinions on the matter. So with that being said -
Zygarde has proven itself time and time again to be one of the meta's greatest picks. Zygarde as a whole is a fantastic 'mon - nearly every set-up reliant variant can break through the vast majority of its own checks. Dragon Dance variants can very easily break through its own checks - with the dragonium z variants grants garde with the ability to break its usual defensive checks, including landorus, gliscor, tangrowth and is a much more consistent method to break through, mega venusaur, reuniclus and amoonguss when compared to the groundium z variant. Speaking of the groundium z variant, that allows it to punish clefable, ferrothorn and mega scizor for letting it boost. Other DD variants, including weakness policy variants (as utilised in this match) accomplishes the same goals, even combining the targets of both the dragonium and groundium sets, but has a few more faults that both z variants - most notably, leaving it more exposed to landorus while also leaving it susceptible to knock off.
At this point, you may be thinking that zygarde's niche as a dragon dancer is its amazing offensive typing, speed tier and its good offensive stats, but there's one thing that you may have overlooked - its astronomical bulk. Its bulk allows it to defensively check the tier's biggest threats including - and not limited to - heatran, volcarona and tapu koko while possessing a fantastic offensive presence. One set that truly capitalises on this is the unique specially defensive rest sleep talk dragon dance set, which trades the sheer power of other dragon dance variants and trades it for sustainability and possesses an equally potent matchup against most playstyles, although stall is slightly shakier due to the presence of quagsire and clefable. This set grants zygarde the ability to set up on a large majority of the tier - most notably being able to freely setup on the entirety of the S ranks sans Kartana as well as the vast majority of the upper ranks, including volcarona, clefable, heatran, pre-transformed ash gren and common hp ice users including trangrowth and venusaur.
I honestly believe that Heatran is the best 'mon in the meta - the sheer effect it has on bulkier builds is astronomical, in fact in my opinion I believe that it is more centralising than Landorus (in my opinion it singlehandedly caused the rise of mega lati@s, gliscor, fightinium z lele and gear, but that could be a misinterpretation of previous information) but this isn't the point of my post - i'm here to recount my experiences with this mon. Unlike zygarde, I really don't have much to say about Heatran - but I hope to concisely explain how it effects balance.
It would be an understatement if I were to say that Heatran has an excellent matchup against balance, as I believe that Heatran is the quintessential balance breaker of the tier.
Heatran's defensive counterplay is very uncommon - its most consistent forms of counterplay comes in the form of mega latias - which is slowly dwindling in usage for whatever reason - bulky waters - specifically mantine, suicune and gastrodon, mega venusaur and bulky grounds, including zygarde and gliscor - which to say is a limited list. This list of checks is also a list of checks that heatran can easily break - for example, mantine is heavily pressured by the combination of taunt and toxic, preventing recovery as heatran slowly chips away at it while scald is doing a pathetic 37% average in return. Both mega venusaur and gliscor are both heavily pressured as they must recover in order not to be picked off by Zmagma. Although mega latias and zygarde come in relatively freely, neither appreciate a stray toxic.
Against offence, Heatran does fantastically against the usual defensive core of lando + steel, being able to outright ohko both mons with z-magma or base magma, allowing teammates such as ash greninja to efficiently clean. Speaking of gren, I feel as greninja is the best overall partner for heatran, as it provides sooooo much support for heatran. Heatran and greninja notably share complementary traits. First and foremost, they are able to beat each other's checks - heatran is not only able to wear down bulkier teams very easily (making the transformation much easier to accomplish) but is able to either trap or outright remove gren's best checks, including (and not limited to) toxapex, chansey and ferrothorn. Heatran also deals with the common landorus + steel core typically present on most bulky offence builds, making cleaning a much easier process for greninja. Speaking of offence, greninja is able to easily beat many of its offensive checks - most of which are found on offensively inclinded builds - including (but not limited to) tapu lele, [mega] tyranitar (although shaky at best, it does immensly threaten tran with [banded] edges) and kartana, making heatran's wallbreaking potential as well as its incredible bulk shine further, turning into a neigh unkillable breaker. While greninja may require some support when going up against bulkier builds, but there is one thing it can do without support - immensely pressure heatran's usual checks. 'Mons such as gliscor, mega latias, zygarde and even opposing heatran absolutely hates greninja's stab combination - more than often being able to greatly weaken said mons through the means of a mispredict or hazard damage is crucial for heatran's balance-breaking abilities, allowing to break with no little fears of defensive counterplay.
holy shit did I say small paragraph
part 2 coming soon
So I wanted to basically talk about my personal favourite mons in the meta, because I really wanted to hear other opinions on the matter. So with that being said -
Zygarde has proven itself time and time again to be one of the meta's greatest picks. Zygarde as a whole is a fantastic 'mon - nearly every set-up reliant variant can break through the vast majority of its own checks. Dragon Dance variants can very easily break through its own checks - with the dragonium z variants grants garde with the ability to break its usual defensive checks, including landorus, gliscor, tangrowth and is a much more consistent method to break through, mega venusaur, reuniclus and amoonguss when compared to the groundium z variant. Speaking of the groundium z variant, that allows it to punish clefable, ferrothorn and mega scizor for letting it boost. Other DD variants, including weakness policy variants (as utilised in this match) accomplishes the same goals, even combining the targets of both the dragonium and groundium sets, but has a few more faults that both z variants - most notably, leaving it more exposed to landorus while also leaving it susceptible to knock off.
At this point, you may be thinking that zygarde's niche as a dragon dancer is its amazing offensive typing, speed tier and its good offensive stats, but there's one thing that you may have overlooked - its astronomical bulk. Its bulk allows it to defensively check the tier's biggest threats including - and not limited to - heatran, volcarona and tapu koko while possessing a fantastic offensive presence. One set that truly capitalises on this is the unique specially defensive rest sleep talk dragon dance set, which trades the sheer power of other dragon dance variants and trades it for sustainability and possesses an equally potent matchup against most playstyles, although stall is slightly shakier due to the presence of quagsire and clefable. This set grants zygarde the ability to set up on a large majority of the tier - most notably being able to freely setup on the entirety of the S ranks sans Kartana as well as the vast majority of the upper ranks, including volcarona, clefable, heatran, pre-transformed ash gren and common hp ice users including trangrowth and venusaur.
I honestly believe that Heatran is the best 'mon in the meta - the sheer effect it has on bulkier builds is astronomical, in fact in my opinion I believe that it is more centralising than Landorus (in my opinion it singlehandedly caused the rise of mega lati@s, gliscor, fightinium z lele and gear, but that could be a misinterpretation of previous information) but this isn't the point of my post - i'm here to recount my experiences with this mon. Unlike zygarde, I really don't have much to say about Heatran - but I hope to concisely explain how it effects balance.
It would be an understatement if I were to say that Heatran has an excellent matchup against balance, as I believe that Heatran is the quintessential balance breaker of the tier.
Heatran's defensive counterplay is very uncommon - its most consistent forms of counterplay comes in the form of mega latias - which is slowly dwindling in usage for whatever reason - bulky waters - specifically mantine, suicune and gastrodon, mega venusaur and bulky grounds, including zygarde and gliscor - which to say is a limited list. This list of checks is also a list of checks that heatran can easily break - for example, mantine is heavily pressured by the combination of taunt and toxic, preventing recovery as heatran slowly chips away at it while scald is doing a pathetic 37% average in return. Both mega venusaur and gliscor are both heavily pressured as they must recover in order not to be picked off by Zmagma. Although mega latias and zygarde come in relatively freely, neither appreciate a stray toxic.
Against offence, Heatran does fantastically against the usual defensive core of lando + steel, being able to outright ohko both mons with z-magma or base magma, allowing teammates such as ash greninja to efficiently clean. Speaking of gren, I feel as greninja is the best overall partner for heatran, as it provides sooooo much support for heatran. Heatran and greninja notably share complementary traits. First and foremost, they are able to beat each other's checks - heatran is not only able to wear down bulkier teams very easily (making the transformation much easier to accomplish) but is able to either trap or outright remove gren's best checks, including (and not limited to) toxapex, chansey and ferrothorn. Heatran also deals with the common landorus + steel core typically present on most bulky offence builds, making cleaning a much easier process for greninja. Speaking of offence, greninja is able to easily beat many of its offensive checks - most of which are found on offensively inclinded builds - including (but not limited to) tapu lele, [mega] tyranitar (although shaky at best, it does immensly threaten tran with [banded] edges) and kartana, making heatran's wallbreaking potential as well as its incredible bulk shine further, turning into a neigh unkillable breaker. While greninja may require some support when going up against bulkier builds, but there is one thing it can do without support - immensely pressure heatran's usual checks. 'Mons such as gliscor, mega latias, zygarde and even opposing heatran absolutely hates greninja's stab combination - more than often being able to greatly weaken said mons through the means of a mispredict or hazard damage is crucial for heatran's balance-breaking abilities, allowing to break with no little fears of defensive counterplay.
part 2 coming soon
what else can I do on sick days other than post giant posts?
So I wanted to basically talk about my personal favourite mons in the meta, because I really wanted to hear other opinions on the matter. So with that being said -
At this point, you may be thinking that zygarde's niche as a dragon dancer is its amazing offensive typing, speed tier and its good offensive stats, but there's one thing that you may have overlooked - its astronomical bulk. Its bulk allows it to defensively check the tier's biggest threats including - and not limited to - heatran, volcarona and tapu koko while possessing a fantastic offensive presence. One set that truly capitalises on this is the unique specially defensive rest sleep talk dragon dance set, which trades the sheer power of other dragon dance variants and trades it for sustainability and possesses an equally potent matchup against most playstyles, although stall is slightly shakier due to the presence of quagsire and clefable. This set grants zygarde the ability to set up on a large majority of the tier - most notably being able to freely setup on the entirety of the S ranks sans Kartana as well as the vast majority of the upper ranks, including volcarona, clefable, heatran, pre-transformed ash gren and common hp ice users including trangrowth and venusaur.
holy shit did I say small paragraph
part 2 coming soon
This SpDef ResTalk Set sounds like fire. Will you share the EV spread and any item choices you like to use? I assume it can tank a +1 savage spin out from Volcarona. I guess I could guess EV's around that.
Seeing as how discussion is a bit dead atm, I wanted to give my two cents on a couple things I've been having fun with:
Gonna start out by saying that Metronome has been a pretty cool item to experiment with. I'm sure there's a ton of Pokemon that can use this, but the main Pokemon I've been trying it out on is Tapu Lele. A lot of the times, I have another Z user and don't want to lock myself into a Psychic- move if I'm choiced. CM/Taunt + 3 attacks Metronome Lele is pretty cool to beat certain Steel- types such as Heatran and Magearna after some prior damage without relying on FB. The most important part is that it still allows you to switch moves, avoiding being Pursuit trapped from the likes of Tyranitar. The second Pokemon that I've tried it out on is Mamoswine, which given the right team support, can be a pretty big threat to common defensive backbones. Metronome allows you to beat Pokemon like Clefable that try to stall you out (which is extremely common atm). The immediate power of LO sucks, but the 'surprise' factor is still neat and you do gain a bit more longetivity.
With Tornadus-T recently picking up a bit more traction, I noticed that a lot of teams rely on the likes of Zapdos / Heatran / Magearna to be their Flying- resists. Pinsir is a really sweet anti-meta Pokemon atm. Not only is it able to bypass the Steel- types due to its coverage moves, but it's also easy to fit something else alongside it like Toxapex with Toxic to bait in Zapdos and wear it down. It takes advantage of a lot of passive Pokemon like Clefable, and if given a free switch-in, it's really easy to abuse. Pinsir can also be a soft check on offense for any scarf Kartana locked into something outside of Smart Strike, and Quick Attack can help alleviate some pressure off of both Hawlucha / Volcarona, both of which annoy offensive builds. It's also a pretty scary wincon when you add SD, and I think it deserves to see a bit more usage despite the SR weakness.
Might add another point to this later, but it's 4 am here & I need sleep
(Also glad that both Reuniclus and Gastrodon have been seeing more usage as of lately...)
Gonna start out by saying that Metronome has been a pretty cool item to experiment with. I'm sure there's a ton of Pokemon that can use this, but the main Pokemon I've been trying it out on is Tapu Lele. A lot of the times, I have another Z user and don't want to lock myself into a Psychic- move if I'm choiced. CM/Taunt + 3 attacks Metronome Lele is pretty cool to beat certain Steel- types such as Heatran and Magearna after some prior damage without relying on FB. The most important part is that it still allows you to switch moves, avoiding being Pursuit trapped from the likes of Tyranitar. The second Pokemon that I've tried it out on is Mamoswine, which given the right team support, can be a pretty big threat to common defensive backbones. Metronome allows you to beat Pokemon like Clefable that try to stall you out (which is extremely common atm). The immediate power of LO sucks, but the 'surprise' factor is still neat and you do gain a bit more longetivity.
With Tornadus-T recently picking up a bit more traction, I noticed that a lot of teams rely on the likes of Zapdos / Heatran / Magearna to be their Flying- resists. Pinsir is a really sweet anti-meta Pokemon atm. Not only is it able to bypass the Steel- types due to its coverage moves, but it's also easy to fit something else alongside it like Toxapex with Toxic to bait in Zapdos and wear it down. It takes advantage of a lot of passive Pokemon like Clefable, and if given a free switch-in, it's really easy to abuse. Pinsir can also be a soft check on offense for any scarf Kartana locked into something outside of Smart Strike, and Quick Attack can help alleviate some pressure off of both Hawlucha / Volcarona, both of which annoy offensive builds. It's also a pretty scary wincon when you add SD, and I think it deserves to see a bit more usage despite the SR weakness.
Might add another point to this later, but it's 4 am here & I need sleep
(Also glad that both Reuniclus and Gastrodon have been seeing more usage as of lately...)
If anything becomes meta, then people will adapt to it. Problem with any Z-boost move is that any mon with whirlwind or roar will just make your z-boost move become useless. So it will still be ok at best, but won't do much to the meta, cause of roar and whirlwind.
Problem with this logic is that Hippo is the main phazer, which Shaymin beats (please don't talk about Skarmory it's trash). Though Toxapex and Mantine will be problems more than anything.
e: Skarmory calcs to show that it really isn't a problem.
+1 252 SpA Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 81-95 (24.3 - 28.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Shaymin Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Skarmory: 216-256 (64.8 - 76.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The only thing in OU that roars/whirlwinds are Suicune (gets blown back) Hippowdown (also gets blown back) and Skarmory (takes too much from HP Fire) and is pretty irrelevant in OU because of how good Celesteela is. If anything I'm worried about Pex and Mantine hazing it.
e: sniped
Skarmory is mostly used 1st, so you are not going to set up z-celebrate. Heatran with roar+rocks was other old set up. Even if you don't have roar or whirl wind. celebrate shaymin still has a very diffecult time vs charizard x, Heatran, mega venusaur, and volcarona. And you can only use z-celebrate 1 time, compared to them using dragon dance, quiver dance more then once. And mega venusaur just poisoning you and tanking you.
So have any of you been using Grass Knot Koko lately?
Grassium Z Grass Knot is a guaranteed OHKO on Gastrodon.
You pretend to be shuca and blast it
I like to partner it with Iapapa Berry Heatran so people assume that's my Z-move because it won't be eating Lefties.
Of course that plan fails if I get knock'd or low enough to eat the berry, but oh well
How does one beat Weakness Policy Zygarde? I've been losing to this shit on the ladder all day, and I legitimately can't think of any reasonable counterplay to it -- it seems like I would have to activate its WP and then phaze it out, with Dragon Tail for example.
I'm not going to say Zygarde is 'broken' or 'suspect worthy' because I think those terms are very loosely defined, but I find it damn near impossible to account for the majority of this mon's 5000 different sets when team building. Under veil/screens (which have been increasing in popularity lately) it automatically 6-0s most standard builds that aren't made to counter this specific strategy. Going up against this thing is always a pain in the ass because unlike most mons that have multiple different viable sets, you cannot 'scout' against Zygarde. It's a late game sweeper that only comes out in the late game, and you only find out what set it is when you try to counter it -- you will only find out that it's WP after you've activated it, or that it's Z-Iron Tail after it's killed your clef, and at that point you're probably going to get swept. There are many offensive threats in USM OU that severely restrict team building, but right now I feel like this is the worst offender of the bunch.
/rant
I'm not going to say Zygarde is 'broken' or 'suspect worthy' because I think those terms are very loosely defined, but I find it damn near impossible to account for the majority of this mon's 5000 different sets when team building. Under veil/screens (which have been increasing in popularity lately) it automatically 6-0s most standard builds that aren't made to counter this specific strategy. Going up against this thing is always a pain in the ass because unlike most mons that have multiple different viable sets, you cannot 'scout' against Zygarde. It's a late game sweeper that only comes out in the late game, and you only find out what set it is when you try to counter it -- you will only find out that it's WP after you've activated it, or that it's Z-Iron Tail after it's killed your clef, and at that point you're probably going to get swept. There are many offensive threats in USM OU that severely restrict team building, but right now I feel like this is the worst offender of the bunch.
/rant
Yeah the set is ridiculously hard to beat. There are some Pokemon that beat it outright, such as Mega Slowbro, Buzzwole, Unaware Clefable, Unaware Pyuku, Alomomola, but they're all pretty niche. Your best and most common way to deal with it is probably gonna be a combination of Clefables Moonblast into a Landorus' HP Ice. This is one of the reasons why I think Zygarde should possibly be suspected - it's so difficult to beat all of it's sets.
I havent been playing ou for a while either but did u really just mention Pyukumuku/Buzzwole and not mention Mew, Tangrowth, Mega-Scizor, Hippowdon or Tapu Bulu? I know the former two have fallen off a bit and a lure set for bulu rised a bit but still, steelium z is no where near common that bulu cannot counter it consistently. Scizor/Hippowdon is also a pretty consistent counter to most sets
Weakness policy is just so good right now only because it punishes the lazy slapping of lando/clef on a team to patch weakness to zygarde and get swept once they activate weakness policy, i think its just more of a flavor of the month thing personally
Weakness policy is just so good right now only because it punishes the lazy slapping of lando/clef on a team to patch weakness to zygarde and get swept once they activate weakness policy, i think its just more of a flavor of the month thing personally
Hey, before this turns into a zygarde suspect worthiness discussion thread let’s clarify what’s ok to post and what isn’t. It’s ok to discuss the influence zygarde has on the tier, viable counterplay and how it affects the meta etc. I don’t have a problem with anyone’s opinion and if you think it’s suspect worthy it’s fine, just avoid making “its only counter is unaware cosmoem suspect pls jk xD” posts, posts without substance that are toeing on the line are likely going to be deleted and infracted. Also no one liners etc, carry on
one of the soliddest zygarde checks in general is tangrowth, which has the ability to completely wall zygarde unless its dragonium which is a mediocre and uncommon set or has toxic spikes up. mons like mega latias and latios with ice beam or draco meteor are really good weakness policy zygarde checks. im not trying to say that i dont believe that zygarde is broken, but im trying to say that cores like clefable + mega latias or tangrowth + clefable or even clefable + scarf bulky landorus-t have a solid matchup against zygarde. in more offensive teams, you do not want to allow zygarde to set up and stalls have unaware users like clefable quagsire and pyukumuku in addition to potentially a rocky helmet tangrowth. curse scizor or even sd scizor also are really good zygarde checks.
this zygarde set is one that i have been loving right now. i am not sure if anyone used it before me but it is similar to the set blarghlfarghl used except it has glare > thousand waves. it can eat strong super effective attacks like an ice beam from mega latios and is one of the soliddest heatran checks in the tier. it can be used as a win condition late game and is able to beat pokemon like clefable, scarf bulky landorus, sd mega scizor, and tapu bulu if you play it right by glaring them once and then getting a coil on the switch. it has an about half chance of beating tangrowth but it hates taking a knock off as many rolls to 3hko like clefable's moonblast, tangrowth's hidden power ice, and landorus' hidden power ice become guaranteed. it also hates misty and electric terrain as they prevent it from getting a rest and faster pokemon that 2hko can come on sleeping turns. still, its utility of paralyzing many pokemon and countering fires like heatran, all victini sets, charizard-mega-y, celesteela, toxapex and checking non specs koko is huge.
E: Eternam also used a similar set in oupl with toxic > glare.
Last edited:
IMO people slapping lando/clef on teams is not lazy, it's a product of the metagame. In this meta, there are a million different offensive mons that will shred your team unless you prep for them: tapu koko, ash-gren, kartana, volcarona, hawlucha, zygarde... the list goes on. That's why role compression is valued so highly in this meta, and it's why a mon like gastrodon is thriving right now -- it's able to reliably check multiple top threats in a single team slot. The same is true of lando-t and clef: people don't use them just to check zygarde, they're used to check a multitude of different mons, and this also makes them the most popular zygarde answers. While I agree that mew and tangrowth are generally great zyg checks and are by no means 'niche', you still have to consider the opportunity cost of using these mons over lando/clef/gastrodon: mew completely relinquishes momentum against the likes of heatran, ash-gren and most other special attackers, tangrowth hates getting knocked off, gets volt switched on and has no way to cripple set-up sweepers like lucha and volcarona. Bulu and scizor are complete setup fodder for coil sets, which are some of the most common now. Hippowdon is cool, I've used it before and it is a good stop to zygarde, but it's really passive and can't provide much support other than stealth rocks.
Unlike other offensive mons, Zygarde is really good at taking advantage of the strain that its own sets place on team building. The meta is constantly playing a game of cat-and-mouse with this mon: as soon as we adapt to it, someone comes up with SpDef Coil, or Weakness Policy, and then the meta shifts again, and Zygarde has a new best set, and so on. Every time I see this mon on team preview, all I can do is hope that my opponent is using one of the two or three sets that my team can handle.
Everyone knows what Tapu Bulu does by now; it's a fantastic special sponge, using AV and its Grass/Fairy typing to check some of the tier's most dangerous attackers in Ash-Greninja, Tapu Koko, Zygarde, and others. Although AV definitely provides immense utility, it means that Bulu is forced to rely on Nature's Madness to heavily dent anything that isn't weak to Grass/Fighting. This is why I wanted to discuss a couple sets that I've been using (and been seen used) more recently:
~Swords Dance~
Tapu Bulu is able to produce a lot of switches, as it takes advantage of many popular Pokemon: Clefable, Gastrodon, Tapu Koko, Ash-Greninja, among others. Due to this, Swords Dance is a really good option to boost Tapu Bulu's attack and threaten Pokemon that like to switch in, such as Tangrowth, Zapdos, Celesteela, Kartana, and others. Tapu Bulu's base 130 Attack means that it can viably run not only different Z-Moves, but also different EV spreads:
- Grassium Z is a powerful nuke that, alongside Grassy Terrain, can deal a ton of damage to any Pokemon that doesn't quad resist. For example:
- +2 252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 376-443 (98.1 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
- +2 252 Atk Tapu Bulu Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos in Grassy Terrain: 376-443 (98.1 - 115.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
- Fightinium Z provides a strong, reliable hit against Steel-types that usually wall Tapu Bulu with ease, such as Celesteela and Mega Scizor.
- +2 252 Atk Tapu Bulu All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 235-277 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
- +2 252 Atk Tapu Bulu All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 332-391 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- Alternatively, Rockium Z nails common switch-ins like Flying- and Fire-types while maintaining good damage output on the aforementioned Steel-types and can be used to immediately kill Pokemon like Torn-T, which can easily switch into AV Bulu
- EV spread is also customizable; for example, a set with SD + a Careful nature can be used to live Magma Storm from Heatran and beat it with Fightinium Z if the team needs a last resort answer vs. it:
- 8 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 224 HP / 216+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 210-248 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and trapping damage
- 252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 224 HP / 216+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 252-296 (74.7 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery and trapping damage
- 0 Atk Tapu Bulu All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 326-384 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
Last edited:
my favorite bulu in the current the metagame is the z-stone edge set. The set im sure you all know consist of superpower horn leech stone edge sword dance. i like hitting the multiple flying type checks to bulu and z rockium helps mitigate stone edges acc and is good coverage with superpower which hits heatran, ferrothorn and kartana. rockium bulu breaks through celesteela (needs some prior chip depending on spread), amoongus, zapdos, lati twins, tornadus-t, volcorona and zard megas (on the switch). what are yall thoughts on rockium bulu set.
Tyranitar @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Avalanche
- Thunder Wave / Earthquake / Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit / Earthquake / Crunch / Stealth Rock
Here's a fun luretar set that I've been using recently. Avalanche with a Shuca Berry is an insanely consistent Zygarde lure. CB and +1 Zyg only deal 41 - 49% with Thousnd Arrows and cleanly OHKOS back with Avalanche. Coil variants can be annoying but they can be played around with. This Ttar also eats a WP Zyg hit in a pinch. With Stealth Rock, you can act as an insanely deceptive Gliscor lure with Avalanche, and even 1v1s SD Stallbreaker, even at +2. The moveset is also super flexible, T-Wave, Fire Blast, SR, EQ, you're free to mix and match.
Here's a replay:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-752930044
Last edited:
Just a quick note :
124 Atk / 128 SpD Adamant Bulu = Total 359 Atk / 258 SpD
188 Atk / 68 SpD Careful Bulu = Total 343 Atk / 267 SpD
64 Atk / 192 SpD Adamant Bulu = Total 343 Atk / 274 SpD
Basically the rule is : Your EV spread is wrong if you have a positive nature in a stat that is less in total value than what you would have reached with EVs alone and its still less than a stat you've invested EV in with a total value exceding what you would have reached with no EVs and a positive nature (of course ignore HP stat in that regard)
I think this affirmation is always true, correct me if I'm wrong
EDIT :
124 Atk / 128 SpD Adamant Bulu = Total 359 Atk / 258 SpD
188 Atk / 68 SpD Careful Bulu = Total 343 Atk / 267 SpD
64 Atk / 192 SpD Adamant Bulu = Total 343 Atk / 274 SpD
Basically the rule is : Your EV spread is wrong if you have a positive nature in a stat that is less in total value than what you would have reached with EVs alone and its still less than a stat you've invested EV in with a total value exceding what you would have reached with no EVs and a positive nature (of course ignore HP stat in that regard)
I think this affirmation is always true, correct me if I'm wrong
EDIT :
Last edited:
I'd also like to stay with the topic of lures and post a core that I've been enjoying recently. Because it isn't a full team, I can't really post it in an RMT so I would appreciate help on how to finish it. But in my honest opinion right now is that the meta is in a stage where you gain an excellent advantage with surprise heat tech that turns otherwise normal battles to your favor. I think everyone can agree that the meta is kinda stale with everyone running koko/lando/mag/pex/kart/tran and all this common stuff. However, this is a core I really like because it cripples a lot of defensive switchins to pave the way for the rest of the team (which I would really like help finishing!)
This core functions only with a lot of prediction and smart playing to lure and cripple/threats to offense.
Dragonite: This set lures and damages heatran, magearna, toxapex (kinda), ferro, lando, zygarde, skarm, scizor, lucha, volc, tangrowth...the list goes on. Vest and the investment in addition to multiscale makes it extremely bulky and a good check to a lot of the metagame, while also being a lead that can take down lando right away, which has proven very useful. Hurricane is also really nice on rain.
Fini: The tech here is trick, which is mostly for mons like ferro, pex (typically not, most people don't stay in), zapdos, bulu, tangrowth and some others. After the trick, fini still is able to defog while sponging hits and having se STAB coverage, which is really all it needs.
Ferro: This is pretty average set, but bulldoze lures and kills heatran, while having spikes to support the others. Really you can substitute any moves in this set, it just has really good synergy with the other two.
Let me know what you think, and if you're willing, help me find an offensive core to pair with these three. Thanks!
Dragonite @ Assault Vest
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 112 SpA / 40 SpD / 104 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulldoze
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip/Gyro Ball
- Knock Off/Spikes
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Defog
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 HP / 112 SpA / 40 SpD / 104 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Hurricane
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulldoze
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip/Gyro Ball
- Knock Off/Spikes
Tapu Fini @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 196 Def / 64 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Trick
- Hydro Pump
- Moonblast
- Defog
This core functions only with a lot of prediction and smart playing to lure and cripple/threats to offense.
Dragonite: This set lures and damages heatran, magearna, toxapex (kinda), ferro, lando, zygarde, skarm, scizor, lucha, volc, tangrowth...the list goes on. Vest and the investment in addition to multiscale makes it extremely bulky and a good check to a lot of the metagame, while also being a lead that can take down lando right away, which has proven very useful. Hurricane is also really nice on rain.
Fini: The tech here is trick, which is mostly for mons like ferro, pex (typically not, most people don't stay in), zapdos, bulu, tangrowth and some others. After the trick, fini still is able to defog while sponging hits and having se STAB coverage, which is really all it needs.
Ferro: This is pretty average set, but bulldoze lures and kills heatran, while having spikes to support the others. Really you can substitute any moves in this set, it just has really good synergy with the other two.
Let me know what you think, and if you're willing, help me find an offensive core to pair with these three. Thanks!
I just wanna add imo optimized spreads for common mons in OU:
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover
Explanation:
Modest should already be common enough to be accepted. 28 HP and 12 Def allows you to tank defensive Scarf Lando-T Earthquake. They run 293 Speed, max HP and 64 Atk EVs. 216 Spa is a jumppoint Spawise.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 60 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog
This allows you to outspeed everything up to Scarf TTar. You lose the speedtie with Torn-T but you can still tank everything from it and get a slow U-Turn on it or just hardswitch out. HP is divisible by 3 and odd which minimizes Stealth Rocks damage and maximizes Regenerator recovery. Rest into defense. This EV optimization gives Torn-T a bit more physical bulk as well.
Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 28 HP / 12 Def / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Recover
Explanation:
Modest should already be common enough to be accepted. 28 HP and 12 Def allows you to tank defensive Scarf Lando-T Earthquake. They run 293 Speed, max HP and 64 Atk EVs. 216 Spa is a jumppoint Spawise.
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 232 HP / 60 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog
This allows you to outspeed everything up to Scarf TTar. You lose the speedtie with Torn-T but you can still tank everything from it and get a slow U-Turn on it or just hardswitch out. HP is divisible by 3 and odd which minimizes Stealth Rocks damage and maximizes Regenerator recovery. Rest into defense. This EV optimization gives Torn-T a bit more physical bulk as well.
- Status