Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings

There's a lot I want to talk about in this post because theres a lot I straight-up dont agree with.

Tangela drop:
I woke up and I read this and I was thinking "the only thing comparable about Ferro and Tangela is the fact that they are small-looking grass types". It made me question if you have ever used Tangela because Ferro and Tangela do not do the same thing. Tangela is a physical wall who is able to pivot into the majority of our physical attackers like ape, golurk, stoutland being the most important imo and etc and ferro is a hazard setter which lacks Tangela's physical bulk so it is not able to pivot into attacks as well as Tangela but does possess the better defensive typing. Then you mention using victreebel as the better fighting check rather than Tangela and I just sigh at this point. Once again, you cannot compare these pokemon because they are so different. Sure, victreebel is a fighting resist due to its poison typing but when hit with coverage like chan's ice punch, it folds. Tangela is a fighting check because it doesnt take much damage from any of our fighting types then can just switch out.

I think you just miss the point of why people use Tangela and a drop for it when Stoutland still exists in the tier alongside other threatening physical attackers is uncalled for.

Ursaring drop:
I dont have much to say on this, ursa is kinda bad rn and is just outclassed by any normal type above it. What ursa does excel at which it does better than even Stout is stallbreaking. Breaking more defensive teams is the best thing Ursa does because it can just 2hko everything in the tier with its Guts set and isnt actually locked in like Stout is. This niche alone can probably keep ursa around C, it's not D material imo.

Leavanny rise:
"Premier sticky web setter" webs kinda sucks rn but that's beside the point because you're addressing the sd set. You mention the fact that bug/grass can threaten a lot but this mon has a lot of problems. Weaknesses to common typings like Ice, Flying and a rocks weakness doesnt make it a reliable set up sweeper compared to something like Dodrio (rocks weakness ik) but has higher attack, higher speed and stronger STABs.

I also wanted to address your calcs which I find quite irrelevant. Ik you want to show how much Leavanny does at +2 but using ev spreads that dont exist like max defence jelli, max defence mudsdale, 0 defence gurdurr oel and doing calcs on physically frailer mons like z move at +0 like victreebel isnt necessary cuz we all know its gonna kill if its unresisted.
Tangela: You're denying the fact that Ferroseed also switches into Golurk and Stoutland (with a little prediction) alongside other physical threats including Skuntank, Dodrio, and AlolaSlash. If I wanted a Grass-type physical wall on my team, I would be going with Ferroseed over Tangela 90% of the time, given its invaluable support capabilities. This is because Ferroseed can take on a variety of special attackers that Tangela straight up loses to. Tangela is more of a catch-all defensive pivot that performs only one role that Ferroseed can do equally as well. Also, Ferroseed has an immunity to Toxic, a very important defensive asset that Tangela lacks. I don't know how to make this argument without comparing the two because Ferroseed dropping is the only reason I'm making this nomination in the first place.

Ursaring: If I wanted a half-decent Normal-type stall breaker, I would just use Zangoose, who, with Adamant, has comparable power to Ursaring (even more so than Stoutland does). The reason I bring up Adamant is because Adamant Zangoose is still notably faster than Adamant/Jolly Ursaring and if I truly wanted a stall breaker, Adamant would be preferred. Additionally, Zangoose has access to Knock Off, allowing it to cripple stuff like Gurdurr and Tangela. The two aren't even in the same ballpark yet Zangoose is B- and Ursaring is literally one subrank lower at C+, which is a travesty to say the least. Nevertheless, it seems that you're content with Ursaring dropping to C or C-, so I'm fine with that.

Leavanny: I'm not sure why you're comparing Leavanny to Dodrio since Leavanny is unranked and Dodrio is all the way up in A. From what I understand, mons that are ranked are ones that have distinct niches in the tier, which Leavanny does. I'm only arguing for this thing to be ranked at all; I'm not saying that this thing should be anywhere close to Dodrio. Leavanny having common weaknesses should not invalidate it since Lycanroc and Absol have an even worse weakness to Fighting, yet they're solid SD sweepers. Again, I'm nomming this mon for <C rank , which I think is more than fair since it is able to threaten so many defensive cores with its STAB coverage. Sticky Web is an optional fourth-slot move as well to demonstrate that Leavanny can provide utility and that it is more than a one-trick pony.
 

Specs

Keep it simple
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Tangela is more of a catch-all defensive pivot that performs only one role that Ferroseed can do equally as well.
I don't think Ferroseed performs the role Tangela has equally as well. The lack of fighting weakness is actually pretty good for it, allowing it to come in on Stoutland (more reliably) Primeape Gurdurr (it gets knocked but u win the 1v1 easily) Hitmonchan ect. It's just about as good of a normal resist tbh, you don't actually resist but the access to reliable recovery in Synthesis and a great ability in Regenerator means you pivot in just about as well. Yeah Tangela has poor Spdef but it's not like anybody is arguing that Tangela could compete in that department with Ferroseed. I just don't really see why they're being compared so hard in your original post, as well as saying Tangela is somehow outclassed by Ferroseed. Sure yeah they're bulky grass types, but the comparison pretty much ends there. Ferroseed has the utility in spikes rocks, can afford to go either spdef or physdef depending on what you want to beat/what the team needs from it, iron barbs is cool to wear down mons, ect. Tangela has the better phys def allowing it to be a better physical meta check, having access to Regenerator allows it to pivot easier, actually has a pretty good offensive presence, fits on balance better imo, ect. All in all on paper maybe they look fairly similar, but in practice they perform different roles and in turn Tangela isn't 'outclassed' by Ferroseed. Don't agree with this nom to drop it.
 

uhuhuhu7

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Stay A+
People have already said what I wanted to say about Gurdurr, but to recap:
Gurdurr on its own isn't particularly difficult to build around, but rather the combination of both Gurdurr and Primeape. As a soft example, Victreebel is one of our best Gurdurr checks, but it does not check Primeape whatsoever, and covering both Pokemon without overlapping weaknesses can often be difficult. Combine this with all the set variations; Gurdurr with Toxic can lure in and take out Jellicent, Sableye etc, SpDef Gurdurr makes it a lot harder to break with the likes of Omastar, and then you have Band Primeape tearing down holes in would-be checks such as Mudsdale. Altogether they both make building pretty difficult, but individually I'd argue neither is particularly centralising.
Also, while Mesprit was certainly one of Gurdurr's best counters, it's worth noting that Healing Wish was incredible support for Gurdurr that isn't available on any other high ranking Pokemon; Gurdurr can't switch in on Pokémon like Stoutland anymore and still expect to set-up freely late game. Keep it A+ and let the meta develop a bit more.

Speaking of Stoutland...

Stay A-
I don't know how you can talk about how threatening Fighting types are while still suggesting this thing should drop; with the exception of maybe Sableye, Tangela is arguably the best fighting switchin in the tier right now. Eviolite is incredible for it, but not a necessity, and it can still consistently deal with Gurdurr regardless. Primeape can't touch it outside of using U-Turn to switch into a breaker, which, while an issue, is also true of pretty much every other switchin (Silvally-Fairy, Mudsdale etc.) and I think even with Victreebel's rise (who takes a ton from HP Fire btw) Tangela's doing more than enough to keep its current rank. Being able to do this, while also blanket checking most other physical attackers in the tier is not something Ferroseed can mirror, due to its Fighting-type weakness (making matchups vs Stoutland iffy) and limited recovery outside of Leech Seed. They have some cross-over, but they're used in very different defensive cores.

Now, back to Gurdurr...

Stay B+
Silvally-Fairy is getting a bit overhyped. Not much to say that others haven't, but it loses the 1v1 to Gurdurr if it's not at full health and struggles to remove hazards due to how easily both Regirock and Mudsdale set up on it (i.e. they can just switch in every time Silvally tries to Defog). It's fine glue, but it's not particularly great in either role it tries to perform.

Stay Unranked
Not entirely sure what the "niche" of this mon is exactly. It seems alright for taking on the typical Mudsdale/Eelektross cores floating about, but it's dead weight in just as many matchups (e.g. Ferroseed and Sandslash-Alola smoke you). It's weak to hazards, has little to no defensive utility (outside of checking Gurdurr, which is neat), and is forced out by anything faster, which normally isn't an issue (see similarly frail mons like Dodrio and Raichu-Alola) but when you're weak to hazards and have a typing like this it's really hard to find more than one setup opportunity, and Leavanny just doesn't have the natural speed or power to make up for this. It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats.

Stay C+
Ursaring and Zangoose aren't the same; Ursaring has much more power and if anything is probably better than before since Mesprit's left and it can abuse the slower fat rockers that are getting traction instead. I don't have much to say on this because I don't think I've used the mon myself enough personally but I don't think m3po's nomination was particularly convincing.

Stay A+
Sorry Skitty, but I think Stoutland is just as threatening as ever and there's not a good argument to drop it. Regirock is getting more use, but Mudsdale and Gurdurr find it a lot harder to check Stoutland without the fallback plan Healing Wish Scarf Mesprit provided. Victreebel's an incredible partner for Stoutland and makes it a lot harder to play against Stoutland with the standard checks we've always used in the past (i.e. Mudsdale, Ferroseed, Tangela, Gurdurr again). All in all this Pokemon is still very very good.

TL;DR keep everything the same
I want to offer my support to the Sensu and Leafeon nominations; they were argued well and I have nothing more to add.
 
Stay A+
People have already said what I wanted to say about Gurdurr, but to recap:
Gurdurr on its own isn't particularly difficult to build around, but rather the combination of both Gurdurr and Primeape. As a soft example, Victreebel is one of our best Gurdurr checks, but it does not check Primeape whatsoever, and covering both Pokemon without overlapping weaknesses can often be difficult. Combine this with all the set variations; Gurdurr with Toxic can lure in and take out Jellicent, Sableye etc, SpDef Gurdurr makes it a lot harder to break with the likes of Omastar, and then you have Band Primeape tearing down holes in would-be checks such as Mudsdale. Altogether they both make building pretty difficult, but individually I'd argue neither is particularly centralising.
Also, while Mesprit was certainly one of Gurdurr's best counters, it's worth noting that Healing Wish was incredible support for Gurdurr that isn't available on any other high ranking Pokemon; Gurdurr can't switch in on Pokémon like Stoutland anymore and still expect to set-up freely late game. Keep it A+ and let the meta develop a bit more.

Speaking of Stoutland...

Stay A-
I don't know how you can talk about how threatening Fighting types are while still suggesting this thing should drop; with the exception of maybe Sableye, Tangela is arguably the best fighting switchin in the tier right now. Eviolite is incredible for it, but not a necessity, and it can still consistently deal with Gurdurr regardless. Primeape can't touch it outside of using U-Turn to switch into a breaker, which, while an issue, is also true of pretty much every other switchin (Silvally-Fairy, Mudsdale etc.) and I think even with Victreebel's rise (who takes a ton from HP Fire btw) Tangela's doing more than enough to keep its current rank. Being able to do this, while also blanket checking most other physical attackers in the tier is not something Ferroseed can mirror, due to its Fighting-type weakness (making matchups vs Stoutland iffy) and limited recovery outside of Leech Seed. They have some cross-over, but they're used in very different defensive cores.

Now, back to Gurdurr...

Stay B+
Silvally-Fairy is getting a bit overhyped. Not much to say that others haven't, but it loses the 1v1 to Gurdurr if it's not at full health and struggles to remove hazards due to how easily both Regirock and Mudsdale set up on it (i.e. they can just switch in every time Silvally tries to Defog). It's fine glue, but it's not particularly great in either role it tries to perform.

Stay Unranked
Not entirely sure what the "niche" of this mon is exactly. It seems alright for taking on the typical Mudsdale/Eelektross cores floating about, but it's dead weight in just as many matchups (e.g. Ferroseed and Sandslash-Alola smoke you). It's weak to hazards, has little to no defensive utility (outside of checking Gurdurr, which is neat), and is forced out by anything faster, which normally isn't an issue (see similarly frail mons like Dodrio and Raichu-Alola) but when you're weak to hazards and have a typing like this it's really hard to find more than one setup opportunity, and Leavanny just doesn't have the natural speed or power to make up for this. It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats.

Stay C+
Ursaring and Zangoose aren't the same; Ursaring has much more power and if anything is probably better than before since Mesprit's left and it can abuse the slower fat rockers that are getting traction instead. I don't have much to say on this because I don't think I've used the mon myself enough personally but I don't think m3po's nomination was particularly convincing.

Stay A+
Sorry Skitty, but I think Stoutland is just as threatening as ever and there's not a good argument to drop it. Regirock is getting more use, but Mudsdale and Gurdurr find it a lot harder to check Stoutland without the fallback plan Healing Wish Scarf Mesprit provided. Victreebel's an incredible partner for Stoutland and makes it a lot harder to play against Stoutland with the standard checks we've always used in the past (i.e. Mudsdale, Ferroseed, Tangela, Gurdurr again). All in all this Pokemon is still very very good.

TL;DR keep everything the same
I want to offer my support to the Sensu and Leafeon nominations; they were argued well and I have nothing more to add.
First off, I apologize for my third post within the same day but I'm afraid I'll have to respond again due to some misunderstandings.

Leavanny: "It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats." It's usable and of course you can build around better threats, which can be said about almost every single mon in the C and D ranks. With that sort of reasoning, every single C-/D ranks mon should be Unranked since there are way better options out there. What I'm saying is that Leavanny has a defined niche (Sticky Web user and SD sweeper). I'm not saying it's good necessarily, but it's usable, and this goes for all Pokemon in the C/D ranks. You're not exactly telling me it's so bad that it should remain Unranked, you're simply telling me that it isn't very good, which can be said about all the Pokemon in the C/D ranks. Also, you said Ferroseed completely walls this thing, which isn't true because after +2, you kill it with Savage Spin-Out + X-Scissor while Ferroseed only 3HKOs back with Gyro Ball.

I forgot to mention the point that the SD set is used as a surprise tactic. When your opponent sees Leavanny, they'll assume it's Sticky Web and they'll switch in their Skuntank or whatever, and that gives you the opportunity to set up or bop them with Savage Spin-Out.

Ursaring: You're speaking hypothetically. You claimed that Ursaring is "probably" better now since Mesprit is gone. Uh...no. Ursaring wasn't or isn't used before or after Mesprit's departure so I doubt that Mesprit's rise had anything to do with Ursaring's usability. Besides, Choice Band Crabominable takes WAY more advantage of "fat rockers" like Mudsdale and Regirock than Ursaring ever would. But I digress.

Ursaring and Zangoose basically function the same way, except that Zangoose is much better. Ursaring has an Attack stat of 130 while Zangoose has an Attack stat of 115, so I wouldn't say that Ursaring hits MUCH harder. And besides, Zangoose's Speed advantage clearly offsets the slight Attack disadvantage. Below is a comparison:

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 42.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 276-325 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 301-355 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 276-325 (70 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 301-355 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, there is only about a 6% damage output between Zangoose and Ursaring, so I think you are really overexaggerating how much harder Ursaring hits than Zangoose.

Silvally-Fairy: The main argument from what I understand is that Silvally-Fairy loses to Mudsdale and Regirock, some of the tier's principal hazard setters. Hitmonchan and defensive AlolaSlash also lose to Mudsdale and Regirock respectively, so I'm not sure what this point is getting at in the first place. Furthermore, people are forgetting how versatile Silvally-Fairy is. You can run offensive Swords Dance, offensive pivot, or defensive Defogger. People (who probably haven't played too much with Silvally-Fairy) are nay-saying, claiming that "it loses to Regirock and Mudsdale". Okay, if you want, you can forego Parting Shot and run Toxic or something to cripple them, or whatever suits your team the best. Silvally-Fairy is very versatile offensively and defensively with Parting Shot, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and even Rest being viable utility options. You don't have to stick to the standard Parting Shot + Multi-Attack + Flamethrower + Defog set or the SD + Flame Charge set. With its good bulk and typing, Silvally-Fairy is extremely versatile, unlike some other one-trick ponies.
 
As someone who lusts after that ridiculous sticky web team play leavanny is easily my go to and I've played it a few ways, scarf(most sure fire way), reflect, special, utility, sash, Leftovers, and etc.

Webs aren't bad but there's only 2 ways to play them in pu in my experience. Super hyper offense(smeargle is probably the better setter) and match up spread which is basically bulky offense with an extra breaker and more focus on anti removal+weather check[banded floatzel nukes all with webs up]

And honestly webs are just worst than screens I've done both. There really isn't a niche in this tier for it because You're basically forced to pick weaker answers to the meta and play around other offensive teams.

And saying leavanny has a surprise doesn't get You up the ladder nor do any better than trade mons in a tournament set of 3 or 5 and that isn't worth ranking at all

Also You really need to post replays for an unranked mon and address the issues cause if that takes a team slot for sd, that's literally got to be Your win con or make room for it. Otherwise they can just make a trade and revenge and people aren't stupid they do look up sets if they don't know what a mon does

Also zangoose dies in one hit, the bear is TR
 
Ursaring's big bonus in the stall matchup is that it's way, way less suicidal than Zangoose. Best case scenario if Zangoose gets in on a sac with no chip damage it's living 7 turns max, and against stall chances are you'll be eating some hazards and rocky helmet chip at the very least. This makes it way easier to play around - chip when it sets up, a few careful switches and use of protect means the holes Zangoose makes can be limited pretty easily. Ursaring meanwhile only loses a measly 6% each turn, less than a Life Orb mon, while also being significantly fatter and still fast enough to outspeed all common stallmons. Stall can rely on Zangoose killing itself and hoping that what's left afterwards can deal with the rest of the enemy team, but Ursaring is a one-mon teamwipe threat to the playstyle.
 


From A -> A+ or S
I know this may be met with controversy but I believe this nomination is justified and more accurately reflects Victreebel's position in this meta.


Victreebel is a beast. It is perhaps the most reliable and most threatening wallbreaker in the current meta thanks to its almost unresisted coverage in Leaf Storm / Energy Ball + Sludge Bomb + Hidden Power Fire. What makes it more threatening is the fact that it can heal right back up when its health is getting low with Strength Sap.


The meta trends have also favoured Victreebel significantly. The ban of Lilligant meant that Vic has become PU’s strongest and most effective grass-type Pokémon. The departure of Mesprit and Guzz and the rise of Fighting-types in the current meta has made Victreebel even more splashable on teams as a consistent fighting check and wallbreaker. Similarly, the rise of bulky ground/rock types like Mudsdale, Quag and Regirock makes Vic’s Leaf Storm even more threatening. Vic’s most significant checks Skuntank, Alolaslash and Oricorio-E has seen decreased usage compared to previous metas. The current Vic resists that I have noticed are Ferroseed, Eel, Cryogonal and ironically Hitmonchan which could be dealt with easily by consistently wearing them down throughout the match by hazards and coming in on either a full forced Leaf Storm or HP Fire. Even Oricorio-E dies to a Z-Leaf Storm if it roosts. Moreover, Physical Victreebel can deal with those checks (bar Ferro) quite effectively.


The effect of Victreebel on the meta is noteworthy. We have seen mons including Muk, Crabominable, Type Null and even Flareon been used so that teams have a reliable way to check/counter Vic.

Victreebel is also versatile enough to warrant the S rank. Vic can run a physical SD set which is effective against most of its currents checks including Cryo, Eel, Crab and Type Null. Vic can also run Specs or just be a frightening sweeper under the Sun.

Vic also helps in teambuilding by not only being a reliable wallbreaker that checks fighting types but by absorbing Toxic Spikes and being a nice way to counterplay Sun teams with its ability Chlorophyll.

I would hope that this posts generates discussion on whether Vic is worthy of the S rank and would also love to hear what others think on this nomination.

Edit: Here's the SD physical Vic set - try it out:
Victreebel @ Iapapa Berry / Grassium Z
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Strength Sap
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Power Whip
- Poison Jab

Victreebel @ Grassium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Power Whip
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
 
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Megazard

The turtle moves
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PU Leader
Open's done, let's do an update.

Rises:
Code:
Eelektross A+ to S
Victreebel A to A+
Silvally-Fairy B+ to A-
Oricorio-Sensu B+ to A-
Cryogonal B to B+
Absol B- to B
Claydol B- to B
Musharna C+ to B-
Leavanny Unranked to D
And drops:
Code:
Articuno A- to B+
Tangela A- to B+
Kabutops B+ to B
Bellossom B to B-
Scyther B to B-
Roselia B- to C+
Bouffalant C- to D
Basculin D to Unranked
Gourgeist-Super D to Unranked
:Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross:
As before, the new voting sheet contains individual council members' reasonings for most of the nominations so I don't need to do my own explaining, but if you want more clarity on a particular change you can ask on discord, in the room, or in the SQSA thread. Snake is a pretty long tour so we'll probably do another slate before it's over while still keeping an eye on how the meta develops during the tournament.

As for a few discussion points: Alolan Persian A- to A and Leafeon B- to B both split us 50/50. The former is a question of is Alolan Persian really reaching its pre-Guzzlord heights or has our new Eel/Gurdurr/Victreebel-centric meta left it not quite as good, and the latter... honestly I don't know why people would think it deserves the same rank as Haunter, Metang, Lurantis, etc. but Natural Gift is a funny move.
 
You guys should know this was coming

193389

Lurantis: B to B+
We are currently in a tier where Mudsdale and Regirock are the default rockers, and seen on probably 80% of teams. Even if these aren't the rockers, Lurantis threatens Sandslash-Alola and Metang too, so essentially this means that it pressures 90% of team's rockers, and is able to get off a free defog. What separates Lurantis from other defoggers that threaten Mudsdale and Regirock is both its added benefit of offensive prowess, as well as its pseudo immunity to status via Aromatherapy. Aromatherapy allows Lurantis to stay healthy throughout the match from Toxic's aimed at it by Mudsdale and Regirock, meaning that Lurantis can do it's role the entire match and essentially make the opposing rocker useless. Aromatherapy even has the extra benefit of removing status from teammates, making Lurantis a semi-cleric as well. It can even act as an alright gurdurr answer with either the synthesis set or resttalk set. With all of this , you would think Lurantis deserves a rank somewhere in A! Though I would argue A-, I will settle for B+ right now. It does have flaws, such as being pressured by froslass, the best spiker in the tier. Oh, and it also gets pressured by Victreebel and Oricorio-Sensu, meaning you need teammates which reliably handles these so you don't get punished for clicking defog. These two things alone are a pretty large drawback for Lurantis. However, the simple fact that this thing can defog for free vs 90% of teams and also put on a large amount of offensive pressure is enough to see it in B+ above digimon like Pinsir and Dugtrio-Alola.

If you want replays just watch the snake week 1 replays because every Lurantis used had the sauce last week.

This message is sponsored by the Church of Lurantis Serene Grace
 
You know what we need to stop pretending?

Stall isn't crazy vaible

If You can build around the absolute biggest monster in the stall meta You will always have a fun soul shattering team mate

Audino....

That ain't clefairy good first off, that isn't part of a team comp that loses to combustion, aggron or any of that tier. B+ isn't bad, but it's pretty cheesy. Rotom frost/jynx isn't the face of a team that's reliable like audino.

If You want to beat it You need a mon with serious fighting coverage or chip it down(*gasp* trys to out stall stall) there is nothing with fighting coverage in this tier besides Lurantis that can beat the unaware mons it's always paired with and I hardcore believe in grass coverage in this tier.

Audino B+ to A, victreebel doesn't beat wish=> Silvally-P/bronzor commonly used on stall either if You wanna diss insane cores

Personally I think that mon is completely broken, creates an environment to easily counter build current meta threads in a way that forces You to only beat stall(then lose to banded soutland or whatever)

+2 252+ Atk Absol Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 402-474 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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hello everyone, lengthy post ahead with plenty of nominations that i feel are relevant especially now during snake:

:gurdurr: A+ > A
controversial nom i know, but gurdurr struggles to perform consistently well in current meta. it's highly predictable due to having only one viable set that is easily countered by top-tier mons like victreebel and pompom, the majority of special attackers can easily check it due to its poor special bulk and speed, and it recently faces a lot of competition from other fat and slow fighting-types like crabominable and throh that are less prepped for and often manage to put in more work, while a lot of mons it abuses like stout and regi get much less usage recently (for absolutely no good reason btw, these two are incredible). it's still a good fighting-type that can switch into a lot of physical attackers with ease, but it's just no longer on the same level as other a+ mons like stout, kanga, regi, vic, and pom-pom, all of which are much more difficult to take out or counter properly.

:lycanroc: A > A-
another case of a good mon that can often put in plenty of work yet really doesn't favor meta trends and is not on the same threat level as its a rank counterparts. with regi or muds being featured on 80% of teams, other prevalent mons like quagsire, tangela, and claydol not caring for its basic rock/ground coverage, and fighting-types like gurdurr only being threatened by niche psychium z sets, lycanroc simply fails to function as a threat in many matches. there's simply not enough reason to use this over superior rock-types like carracosta rn.

:ferroseed: A > B+
this mon is overrated fwiw. as a spikes setter it's outclassed by froslass and qwilfish which have a much better speed tier making them much less susceptible to taunt as well as superior utility options like taunt, will-o-wisp, scald, destiny bond etc and a better offensive presence. it's not great as a defensive wall either due to how easy grass/steel is to exploit defensively in the current meta. with fire- and fighting-type coverage being everywhere, the amount of top-tier mons it can actually switch into or try to set up on is incredibly little. oh yeah, and no recovery options whatsoever outside of leech seed. this is just very passive and underwhelming and is outclassed in almost all departments and i honestly don't see much of a reason to use it over superior mons, with role compression included in consideration.

:drampa: A- > A
hello consistent wallbreaker! this thing comes in and claims a kill every time unless you're forcing 50/50s with ghost+fairy cores like jelli+clef or running niche stuff like mr. mime. drampa can also take a beat. it also highly benefits from eel being so splashable as it can bring it in safely a lot of times and in general it just comes with very few drawbacks and is very easy to justify using.

:crabominable: B > B+
an uncommon and underappreciated mon that can run a variety of viable sets, has a very good mu against a variety of playstyles from bo to stall, and is really hard to switch into. aside from life orb being crucial on every good tr team and sets like band and av managing to put in plenty of work without tr, new sets like tlenit1's genius substitute set can be incredibly annoying to face (if you have yet to watch the xiri vs rexus match from week 3 of snake, go do it now). people should be using this more often.

:musharna: B- > B
fetus just keeps getting better and better, with dark-types like skunk being less common than ever it is now almost free to spam powerful future sights which can wear opposing teams down really fast. add an incredible immediate nuke in z-future sight, great bulk, reliable recovery, and healing wish and it's a gg. thanks to unuser gum for creating and popularizing this excellent set.

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Future Sight
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

:ursaring: C+ > B-
after it got nommed down a month ago i got interested in trying out ursaring again, devised a set with my good friend Sir Pin and built a team around it, and i can happily report this is genuinely good and worth using outside of trick room too. facade is still almost impossible to switch into and it notably cleanly ohkos eel which is really good rn as everyone struggles with it, unlike stout it's not choice-locked so it can't be taken advantage of in order to get free switches, and it's even good as an anti-lead as it can take advantage of common pivot leads like eel and ape by scouting with protect while crunch is super useful for lass. while its bulk isn't amazing, it wears itself down with burn recoil, and it can be revenge-killed fairly easily due to its medoicre speed tier, its sheer power more than makes up for it and this is seriously worth considering as a slow breaker on your team.

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

protect is super useful for scouting against choice-locked mons and setting up safely vs eel, speed investment allows it to outspeed uninvested tangela and jellicent.

:leavanny: D > UR
yeah send this sewage digimon back to where it came from. i see no merit in ranking it for being the faster webs setter when webs is a trash playstyle to begin with, that's the equivalent of ranking lapras on the basis of it being the bulkiest perish trapper, that's an irrelevant niche. it surely doesn't help that bug/grass is an awful defensive typing and that from an offensive standpoint there's absolutely no reason to use this over the superior leafeon. even if you're super adamant on using webs there's no reason to run it over shuckle which can do more than set up webs and die.

:dp/masquerain: UR > D
third time's the charm? :psyglad:

i won't go too much into detail as of why masquerain is good in general and why it should be considered using as a qd sweeper over a websetter, cute user tom holland has already explained it very thoroughly in his own nomination and the majority of points still stand to this day. however, i do want to pinpoint how recent meta trends are highly benefitting masq, and the first one is its ability to setup on extremely prevalent threats like victreebel and gurdurr as well as rising stars like lurantis and throh, it's capable of threatening our top rockers in muds and regi with even unboosted z-hydro pump, can take out defensive behemoths like eelektross and cryogonal with boosted z-bug buzz after very slight chip, some of its best checks like lycanroc and skuntank are seeing increasingly less usage, and it fits very well on voltturn teams which are super good rn. sure it still has its share of drawbacks; when it is being used lycanroc can easily get rid of it, pompom and sensu can still switch in for free, and being 4x weak to rocks will always be a big downside for it. however, its increased ease of setting up and good mu against prevalent eel-vic-muds cores allow it to function as an absolute wincon, now more often than ever. also if we're rising lurantis to b+ this has to be ranked too like cmon it's a really good counter.

i know it's hard to convince people that masq is actually good when it's often seen as low ladder scum, and that's why in addition to replays, top tier builder gum and i will supply you with the correct set as well as with viable teams so you can try it out and judge for yourself. incoming resources dump:

Masquerain @ Buginium Z / Waterium Z / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hydro Pump / Scald

timid allows masq to speed tie with scarf kabu at +1 and outspeed scarf dod at +2, modest has a higher chance of ohkoing regi and muds with unboosted z-hydro pump while generally dealing more damage which is always nice.

placeholder

:drampa::masquerain::eelektross::silvally::regirock::primeape: by moi

:masquerain::gurdurr::regirock::lanturn::skuntank::lurantis: by gum

:golem: :munchlax:C+/C- > UR?
this is less of a nomination and more of something that's worth a discussion imo. it's true that usage =/= viability, but i really can't recall seeing either of these used seriously in the past 9 months i've been playing pu. i don't have a strong opinion on either as i don't really know how they play but it's worth to see if they still have a meaningful niche in the meta or if they can go unranked.

thanks for giving this a read!
 
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hello everyone, lengthy post ahead with plenty of nominations that i feel are relevant especially now during snake:

:gurdurr: A+ > A
controversial nom i know, but gurdurr struggles to perform consistently well in current meta. it's highly predictable due to having only one viable set that is easily countered by top-tier mons like victreebel and pompom, the majority of special attackers can easily check it due to its poor special bulk and speed, and it recently faces a lot of competition from other fat and slow fighting-types like crabominable and throh that are less prepped for and often manage to put in more work, while a lot of mons it abuses like stout and regi get much less usage recently (for absolutely no good reason btw, these two are incredible). it's still a good fighting-type that can switch into a lot of physical attackers with ease, but it's just no longer on the same level as other a+ mons like stout, kanga, regi, vic, and pom-pom, all of which are much more difficult to take out or counter properly.

:lycanroc: A > A-
another case of a good mon that can often put in plenty of work yet really doesn't favor meta trends and is not on the same threat level as its a rank counterparts. with regi or muds being featured on 80% of teams, other prevalent mons like quagsire, tangela, and claydol not caring for its basic rock/ground coverage, and fighting-types like gurdurr only being threatened by niche psychium z sets, lycanroc simply fails to function as a threat in many matches. there's simply not enough reason to use this over superior rock-types like carracosta rn.

:ferroseed: A > B+
this mon is overrated fwiw. as a spikes setter it's outclassed by froslass and qwilfish which have a much better speed tier making them much less susceptible to taunt as well as superior utility options like taunt, will-o-wisp, scald, destiny bond etc and a better offensive presence. it's not great as a defensive wall either due to how easy grass/steel is to exploit defensively in the current meta. with fire- and fighting-type coverage being everywhere, the amount of top-tier mons it can actually switch into or try to set up on is incredibly little. oh yeah, and no recovery options whatsoever outside of leech seed. this is just very passive and underwhelming and is outclassed in almost all departments and i honestly don't see much of a reason to use it over superior mons, with role compression included in consideration.

:drampa: A- > A
hello consistent wallbreaker! this thing comes in and claims a kill every time unless you're forcing 50/50s with ghost+fairy cores like jelli+clef or running niche stuff like mr. mime. drampa can also take a beat. it also highly benefits from eel being so splashable as it can bring it in safely a lot of times and in general it just comes with very few drawbacks and is very easy to justify using.

:crabominable: B > B+
an uncommon and underappreciated mon that can run a variety of viable sets, has a very good mu against a variety of playstyles from bo to stall, and is really hard to switch into. aside from life orb being crucial on every good tr team and sets like band and av managing to put in plenty of work without tr, new sets like tlenit1's genius substitute set can be incredibly annoying to face (if you have yet to watch the xiri vs rexus match from week 3 of snake, go do it now). people should be using this more often.

:musharna: B- > B
fetus just keeps getting better and better, with dark-types like skunk being less common than ever it is now almost free to spam powerful future sights which can wear opposing teams down really fast. add an incredible immediate nuke in z-future sight, great bulk, reliable recovery, and healing wish and it's a gg. thanks to unuser gum for creating and popularizing this excellent set.

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Future Sight
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

:ursaring: C+ > B-
after it got nommed down a month ago i got interested in trying out ursaring again, devised a set with my good friend Sir Pin and built a team around it, and i can happily report this is genuinely good and worth using outside of trick room too. facade is still almost impossible to switch into and it notably cleanly ohkos eel which is really good rn as everyone struggles with it, unlike stout it's not choice-locked so it can't be taken advantage of in order to get free switches, and it's even good as an anti-lead as it can take advantage of common pivot leads like eel and ape by scouting with protect while crunch is super useful for lass. while its bulk isn't amazing, it wears itself down with burn recoil, and it can be revenge-killed fairly easily due to its medoicre speed tier, its sheer power more than makes up for it and this is seriously worth considering as a slow breaker on your team.

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

protect is super useful for scouting against choice-locked mons and setting up safely vs eel, speed investment allows it to outspeed uninvested tangela and jellicent.

:leavanny: D > UR
yeah send this sewage digimon back to where it came from. i see no merit in ranking it for being the faster webs setter when webs is a trash playstyle to begin with, that's the equivalent of ranking lapras on the basis of it being the bulkiest perish trapper, that's an irrelevant niche. it surely doesn't help that bug/grass is an awful defensive typing and that from an offensive standpoint there's absolutely no reason to use this over the superior leafeon. even if you're super adamant on using webs there's no reason to run it over shuckle which can do more than set up webs and die.

:dp/masquerain: UR > D
third time's the charm? :psyglad:

i won't go too much into detail as of why masquerain is good in general and why it should be considered using as a qd sweeper over a websetter, cute user tom holland has already explained it very thoroughly in his own nomination and the majority of points still stand to this day. however, i do want to pinpoint how recent meta trends are highly benefitting masq, and the first one is its ability to setup on extremely prevalent threats like victreebel and gurdurr as well as rising stars like lurantis and throh, it's capable of threatening our top rockers in muds and regi with even unboosted z-hydro pump, can take out defensive behemoths like eelektross and cryogonal with boosted z-bug buzz after very slight chip, some of its best checks like lycanroc and skuntank are seeing increasingly less usage, and it fits very well on voltturn teams which are super good rn. sure it still has its share of drawbacks; when it is being used lycanroc can easily get rid of it, pompom and sensu can still switch in for free, and being 4x weak to rocks will always be a big downside for it. however, its increased ease of setting up and good mu against prevalent eel-vic-muds cores allow it to function as an absolute wincon, now more often than ever. also if we're rising lurantis to b+ this has to be ranked too like cmon it's a really good counter.

i know it's hard to convince people that masq is actually good when it's often seen as low ladder scum, and that's why in addition to replays, top tier builder gum and i will supply you with the correct set as well as with viable teams so you can try it out and judge for yourself. incoming resources dump:

Masquerain @ Buginium Z / Waterium Z / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hydro Pump / Scald

timid allows masq to speed tie with scarf kabu at +1 and outspeed scarf dod at +2, modest has a higher chance of ohkoing regi and muds with unboosted z-hydro pump while generally dealing more damage which is always nice.

placeholder

:drampa::masquerain::eelektross::silvally::regirock::primeape: by moi

:masquerain::gurdurr::regirock::lanturn::skuntank::lurantis: by gum

:golem: :munchlax:C+/C- > UR?
this is less of a nomination and more of something that's worth a discussion imo. it's true that usage =/= viability, but i really can't recall seeing either of these used seriously in the past 9 months i've been playing pu. i don't have a strong opinion on either as i don't really know how they play but it's worth to see if they still have a meaningful niche in the meta or if they can go unranked.

thanks for giving this a read!
First off, I definitely agree with Musharna rising to B. That thing is an absolute beast defensively and offensively, once it sets up. Heck, I think B+ is realistic even. Anyways, I will take this opportunity to propose one of my favorite sets.


Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam / Barrier
- Rest

This thing annihilates stall and defensive playstyles in general. Calm Mind is there for obvious reasons but I go with Stored Power over Psychic because it stacks base power when you set up CM. Stored Power, with a mere 20 BP initially, isn't going to be doing much of anything to anything. That is, until you use Z-Stored Power, a 160-Base Power nuke that packs an immediate punch without the need to set up. I go with Dazzling Gleam so you don't get shut down by the likes of Absol, Sableye, and Skuntank, but Barrier is an option to deal with Band Aggron and Stoutland (given that you already have a solid Dark-type check). Lastly, Rest is there to heal up. Anyways, once this thing sets up, there's no stopping it. Ferroseed, defensive AlolaSlash, and Metang think that they beat you, but in reality you beat them after a few boosts. Might I add, max Defense Mush is extremely bulky.

Now there are 2 noms I disagree with, the first being Ferroseed. The drop of Ferroseed brought back bad memories of the FerroClef and Ferro+Lanturn meta, even though the tier was so much different back then compared to now. Ferroseed provides immense utility to one's team including hazards and the ability to handle threats like AlolaSlash, Skuntank, Lycanroc, Mudsdale, Regirock, etc. The 4 Taunt users I can think of are Lycanroc, Froslass, Qwilfish, and Jellicent. Ferroseed beats Lycanroc and Froslass with Gyro Ball, so Taunt isn't really an issue in their case. Lanturn, a notable partner of Ferroseed, is able to check Jellicent and Qwilfish. Besides, I never really have issues with setting up hazards in the first place, due to how many switches Ferro forces. Dropping Ferro 2 sub-ranks to B+ seems ridiculous to me, but A- is not completely out of the question.

The other nom I disagree with is Gurdurr. Ice Punch is actually a viable substitute for Bulk Up, so that is a decent tech that is able to nail Victreebel and Pom-Pom. You mentioned Crab and Throh, both of whom lose equally as hard to Pom-Pom (although Crab can take it out on the switch in). Crab and Throh also lose to SD Victreebel (but not the Z-Leaf Storm set). Whoever said that Gurdurr performs inconsistently in the current meta, when stuff like AlolaSlash, Aurorus, Skuntank, Lycanroc, Ferroseed, Stoutland, and Primeape are constantly running around? Also, it isn't fair to say that Gurdurr should drop just because it gets countered by Vic and Pom-Pom. That's like saying Kanga should drop because it gets countered by Gurdurr and Regirock.

Lastly, I think Golem should stay ranked. In case you aren't sure what Golem does, Golem has Sturdy, which allows it to survive a hit from Aurorus and OHKO it back. Since Golem has Sturdy, it can get up rocks 99% of the time, unless it is taunted or something. Custap Berry is a very important item that enables it to be an effective suicide lead. Turn 1, you theoretically get knocked down to Sturdy, but you're able to get up rocks. Turn 2, Custap activates and you can explode in the opponent's face. Golem is also a decent check to fellow leads like Froslass and Regirock, and it is able to handle stuff like Skuntank, Pom-Pom, and even Eelektross, as Explosion is a clean OHKO after rocks. It's more than enough to keep it ranked.

Rises


Shiftry from C+ to B-

Shiftry is underrated. This thing is able to dismantle many cores with STAB Leaf Storm and Knock Off. Then you have Sucker Punch, which is able to pick off many faster mons once they're weakened. The surprise move is Explosion, an insanely poweful move that straight up OHKOs Eelektross, Victreebel, and even Audino after rocks. For real, Shiftry is a monster that most people don't expect or prepare for. It also checks Absol, which has been on the rise once Mush became popular.


Cameupt from C- to C+/C

I played against Camerupt a couple of times, and I was surprised at how well it performed. Defensive Camerupt is a reliable check to lots of ordinary hazard setters, namely Froslass, Regirock, AlolaSlash, Ferroseed, etc. Not only that but it can take on Victreebel and Eelektross, two very potent mons in the tier right now. Additionally, there's the Specs set, which has some nice wallbreaking potential. All in all, I think Camerupt fits quite nicely in the current meta.

Drops


Clefairy from B+ to B

It straight up gets abused by many top-tier mons including Taunt Froslass, Stoutland, AlolaSlash, Victreebel, Taunt Pom-Pom, Skuntank, and others. Clef is a huge momentum drain, also being setup fodder for sweepers like Musharna, Raichu-Alola, and Simisear. As a rocker, it is clearly outshined by Regirock and Mudsdale. It is overshadowed by Silvally-Fairy as a Fighting-check, since Gurdurr can easily knock off Clef's Eviolite, effectively neutralizing it. Clefairy simply isn't bulky enough to keep up with the tier that is chockfull of wallbreakers and sweepers right now.
 

Megazard

The turtle moves
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PU Leader
:Stoutland: Stoutland A+ to A: Probably my most controversial opinion right now, especially since I've always been a big apologist for this mon, but I think the Stout/Kanga dynamic has become too imbalanced to keep Stout deserving of the same level. Kangaskhan has far better defensive utility, with its bulk, Figy, and dual priority, not to mention much better set variability and lure opportunities. Stoutland's tradeoff should be hitting buttons but that just doesn't work as well as it used to. We have only 4 really common rockers, all of which put a bit of a dent in that. Superpower vs Return feels a bit easier to play around with "50/50s" that really have risk/reward more skewed against Stout where they used to be in its favor. Also Stoutland has a genuinely annoying tradeoff to be decided between Jolly and Adamant at the moment that it never used to need to deal with and the power decrease for outrunning Victreebel/Absol/all those mid Speed mons inspired by Victreebel is just more noticeable. Usage also plays a considerable part in this, Snake is a bit early to judge given it's only a 5-2 ratio in Kangaskhan's favor so far, but in public snake replays you have Stoutland with 7 uses and Kangaskhan at 25, and now that I've been building more I can honestly say that this feels completely representative of how much more splashable Kangaskhan feels.

:Hitmonchan: Hitmonchan A- to B: Hitmonchan is bad and not very useful and we've been too slow in dropping it. Chan used to be good, I don't agree w/the people who've been saying it was always bad we just didn't notice, it's simply a massive shift in meta construction. Defensively it's lackluster, obviously it's not much of an offensive threat, you really have to work on choosing coverage moves, I don't even think Spin is worth running on its best sets since you need all the coverage you can get, and really this should just be much more at home with other niche picks that can work but need a lot more thought and support like Altaria or Pinsir. B+ if we have to but c'mon this thing's worse than everything in B+. I'd bring up usage too but Slam includes a ton of Guzz meta when it was way more reasonable to use this.

:Combusken: Combusken B+ to A-: I think anyone following PU tours might have noticed how this Pokemon is really good and one of the only decent Speed-boosting sweepers we have.

:Scyther: Scyther B- to C+: HJAD told me to nom this to C but I think C+ is more appropriate. It's hard to use but doesn't quite make every team worse, we do have legit dedicated hazard control options and it can be a solid pivot. That being said, I have a relatively decent opinion on the stuff in B- and Scyther kinda blows in comparison.

:Manectric: Manectric C+ to C/C-/D: But not as much as Manectric which should almost never be put on anything. I won't go for unranking just yet because it really feels like there's some universe where I'd put it on a team but honestly I think D rank is pretty representative. Manectric was at its best where you could go "but they might not have one of the things that completely screws with it" and now that at least one of Eel/Muds/Lanturn is on pretty much every relevant team it really forces Manectric to dig deep into its bag of gimmicks to stay relevant.
 
shiftry.gif
Shiftry from C+ to B or B+

Here's the set I'll be referencing as I think Shiftry's defog set is it's best:

Shiftry @ Black Glasses
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Leaf Storm
- Defog

Shiftry is criminally underrated in the current meta. Shiftry thrives right now for the same reasons Victreebell does. This offensive defog set uses leaf storm and max attack black glasses for strong Dark-type moves. This set destroys the two most common stealth rock setters, Mudsdale and Regirock. In addition, shiftry is a relatively good check to Golurk; although one needs to be wary of dynamic punch. It's threatening offensive presence enables Shiftry to get a free Defog or make the opponent switch into a blisteringly strong Knock off. It is usually able to switch in on psychic, ground, and certain grass types. In addition, Shiftry decimates bulky waters like Gastrodon and Quagsire.

While shiftry is limited by it's speed, a strong sucker punch allows it to get the KO on offensive threats. Unfortunately, I believe it's speed stat leaves it outclassed as both an offensive and sun sweeper. Despite this, it is a solid offensive 'Mon and pairs excellently with Pokemon like Regirock, Mudsdale, Regirock, and Quag.

I think Shiftry will probably rise a lot and I hope the VR Rankin's reflect that.
 
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ninjask.gif

Ninjask from Unranked to C+

Ninjask is Fast. Ninjask is naturally the second fastest Pokemon in the game. Only Deoxys-S, an Uber Tier Pokemon, is able to outspeed it. Ninjask is so fast in fact, that without any speed investment whatsoever, it is able to reach the absolutely coveted speed tier of 356. This not only outspeeds base 110s like Dodrio and Froslass, but it even outspeeds the fastest A-ranked Pokemon, Lycanroc. This speed however, means little if Ninjask cannot put in work.

The current set shown on the Smogon dex is as follows:

Ninjask @ Groundium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leech Life
- Dig
- Aerial Ace

While this set allows for Ninjask to bust through certain counters, I believe that it leaves it utterly outclassed by a multitude of other sweepers. Ninjask is incredibly frail and fails to break through common counters like Mudsdale, Regirock, or even Gurdurr for that matter. I think that Ninjask's true potential lies in being a fast pivot/revenge killer.

Here is my personal Ninjask set that I have been using to ladder:

Ninjask @ Flyinium Z
Adamant Nature
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Def
- U-turn
- Leech Life
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance

This set allows Ninjask to essentially function like Mega-Beedrill. It's goal is to come in and fire off strong attacks, and then get out. Using this set I've managed to peak around 1500 on the PU ladder. I think the number of games that it has won shows that Ninjask is viable and deserves to at least be ranked on the VR rankings. This set allows ninjask to work in Volt/Turn cores with other 'mons like Rotom-F and Eelektross. Ninjask's basic job is to switch in on Pokemon it outspeeds, dish out a powerful 306 attack STAB boosted U-turn, and switch into another 'Mon to gain momentum. Should you use a slow Volt-Turner like Lanturn or Eel, Ninjask can come in again for free and attempt to revenge kill and/or sweep. In addition, He can set up on passive 'mons like Clefairy and Shuckle and attempt to sweep.

The reason I choose to use Flyinium Z with Aerial Ace is because it allows Ninjask to punch through some would be counters. The main benefit of this set is that it completely walls Gurdurr. a +2 Supersonic Skytrike has a 98% chance to knock out Gurdurr and a 100% chance after rocks (Although rocks usually aren't on the field in a game with Ninjask). Ninjask is also able to switch in on Hitmonchan and revenge kill, given it doesn't use Ice/Thunder Punch on the switch. In addition, +1 Ninjask can outspeed and KO any Primeape that tries to switch in. Here are some relevant calcs:

252 Atk Ninjask Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 186-222 (49.7 - 59.3%)
+2 252 Atk Ninjask Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212 Def Eviolite Gurdurr: 372-438 (99.4 - 117.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ninjask Aerial Ace vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Hitmonchan: 372-438 (132.8 - 156.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Ninjask Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 244-288 (60.3 - 71.2%)
+2 252 Atk Ninjask Supersonic Skystrike (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Clefairy: 361-426 (104.9 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Evidently, Ninjask has a lot of power and is able to bust through some of it's would be counters during the late game. Should something not OHKO Ninjask, he can use Leech Life to regain hp and attempt to grab a kill. I've sent Ninjask in as a lead on passive 'Mons and have been able to sweep entire teams due to speed boost + SD. Despite the strengths Ninjask has, it has a glaring weakness in a 4x weakness to rocks. Ninjask requires a ton of Hazard support and needs solid Volt-Turn cores to make it Viable. It is for these reasons I think Ninjask should be ranked C+. Some excellent partners are: physical walls like Gurdurr, Mudsdale, and Regirock, Volt-Turners like Eelektross, Lanturn and Rotom-F And defog users like Rotom-F, Silvally, and Shiftry. Shiftry is a great partner because it busts through some of Ninjask's would be counters, and in return Ninjask can KO Pokemon that threaten Shiftry. Rotom-F also has the distinction of being a Defog user with Volt Switch.

Here are some repays from my team built around Ninjask:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-983720087
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-984204921
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-984240170
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-984241525
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-984243964
 
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Akir

A true villain!
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PU Leader
Hello everyone, today I have a VR update for you. This is based largely on recent tournament showings, and is meant largely for the pre-drop meta.

Rises:

Lurantis B to B+
Drampa A- to A
Crabominable B to B+
Musharna B- to B+
Combusken B+ to A-
Cryogonal B+ to A-
Absol B to A-
Floatzel B to B+
Liepard D to C-


Drops:

Lycanroc A to A-
Leavanny D to UR
Clefairy B+ to B
Stoutland A+ to A
Hitmonchan A- to B
Scyther B- to C+
Manectric C+ to D
Pom-Pom A+ to A
Poliwrath B to B-

Check out the voting here!

You might notice a few things:
  1. I am not Megazard. I am doing these now!
  2. No drops (Torterra) are included. This is largely because the drops have been out for ~3 days and PU likes taking their time and being sure on decisions.
  3. We went back to the sheet for this one. Both have their pros and cons; I will be experimenting.
  4. No reasoning? This one is just meant to be a small refresher, pushed out before the shift that has already changed things. So, some reasoning is already outdated. Expect a much more full response in the next one.
Also a few more housekeeping changes now that I'm at the helm:
  • VR updates will now be posted once a month, about midway through the month. Expect them around the 15th, but expect occasional variation. You can expect more consistent updates and smaller updates as well.
  • I am adding "triple jeopardy". If a mon has been nominated twice, and no notable changes have occurred (no usage shifts, no meta-significant tech, no notable tournament showing, no significant time lapse), then it will not be voted upon a third time. The same argument can only be rehashed so many times.

See you all next time!
 
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warzoid

wreck into a poll like a Raichu volt
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Ninjask @ Flyinium Z
Adamant Nature
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Def
- U-turn
- Leech Life
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance
Could you explain what the EVs are designed to live? I came up with an EV spread of 80 HP / 252+ Atk / 152 Def / 24 Spe that seems pretty good. 24 speed EVs outrun Floatzel and scarf Abomasnow without a speed boost, 80 HP always lives defensive Altaria's Dragon Pulse and Clefairy's Moonblast after rocks and gives odd HP for an extra rocks switchin, and the rest of the EVs are dumped into defense to tank as much priority as possible.
 

Akir

A true villain!
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Driver
PU Leader
Torterra_NB.gif

After much thought and consideration, the council has opted to put Torterra in A+.

Many factors go into this, namely the sheer effectiveness of the Rock Polish and Bulky Swords Dance sets. However, the fact that Torterra can also work as a sturdy Stealth Rocker also plays into its versatility. Combine all of that with its already-strong tournament presence and the fact that it reliably checks some of the tier's biggest mons (Eelektross, Mudsdale, etc) and you have a mon well worth A+.

That is all for this update, see you all next month! Also I used the BW sprite because I like them.
 

LordST

Wa Ha Ha
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Big post incoming:

A+ -> S Might be a bit early for this, but I think Torterra has proven it deserves to be S rank. First off, Tort has a very large amount of effective sets. Bulky Rocks(Spdef or Physdef), RP, SD Synth, Offensive Rocks, etc. are all highly effective at what they aim to accomplish and will almost always get value even vs teams well prepped for it. When you also account for lure potential lure sets that haven't been explored too much yet such as Band, Dual Dance, and Sub sets, checking Torterra can become really tough. With all this in mind, it has become increasingly hard to justify not running it in a way I think is comparable to Eel. I hope this post can spark a lot of good discussion and some more posts, cause i don't feel like going more into depth than this. :psysly:

A -> A+ In this meta where you really want to run Torterra, fitting Hail and Fire checks becomes very important and nothing fills this roll better than Jellicent. It has a surprising amount of versatility and can really be customized to fit your teams needs while rarely sacrificing its ability to check most of the things its meant to. Need it to be able to check Gurdurr and Sandslash the most? Phys Def is the best mon in the tier that covers both. Need it to stop Simisear/Combusken along with special Ices? Spdef stops them all bar specs Aurorus. And whats great about Jelli is that it can customize its EVs like this while still soft checking the things on the other side of the spectrum. Thanks to its fantastic natural bulk along with how broken Cursed Body can be while spamming Recover, mons that should in theory beat you like Cryogonal, Lanturn, or Stoutland can get walled out. When you consider everything Defensive sets can do and factor in more niche sets like OTR Z move or Specs, i think Jelli is easily an A+ mon.

B+ -> A- This one feels like a no brainer with the recent success it's had in tournaments. With yet another bulky rocker in the tier running Skuntank is harder to pull off. The recent rise of Offensive Future Sight sets alongside classics like Barrier or Z-Gleam have made Musharna a big threat in the current meta. With each of the four or so sets Musharna runs counterplay varies and you really have very little indication of what set it might be from team preview. This enables Musharna to be either a strong early game breaker or a late game wincon that's hard to play against and I feel A- is representative of that effectiveness.

B+ -> B/B- Type Null really struggles atm. There are tons of obstacles to it sweeping that it needs a lot of support to remove such as Ferroseed, Jellicent/Sableye, and strong physical breakers like Stoutland, Banded Primeape, Gurdurr etc. With all these checks, the only set it can really run successfully is as a blanket special pivot with U-turn, but it's really subpar at this as well. Thanks to all the random residual damage common in the meta like hazards, Rocky Helmet, and Hail, its forced to Rest often and becomes highly exploitable. I'd really like to see this drop two subranks but B might make more sense to some people idk.

B- -> B Leafeon has the useful niche of being really the only offensive mon that can reliably switch into pretty much any Torterra set comfortably. This is quite valuable as most hard Torterra counters like Tangela or Bronzor are really easy to abuse while Leafeon can threaten basically the entire meta with its great speed tier, solid physical bulk and decent coverage paired with SD and z moves. I believe you should be running Synthesis and SD always to be able to reliably beat Regi, Tort, and Muds but you can customize the rest of the set to suit your teams needs. Z Leaf Blade or Z Double Edge can break through common grass resists like Skunk or Knock can be used to cripple other checks such as Ferroseed or Tangela. Even other niche sets such as Heal Bell or Z celebrate can find success. Overall I think this is a mon that got just a bit better with the recent shift and a rise on the VR would reflect that.

B -> B-/C+ Claydol had a decent niche last meta with Refresh to be able to wall Regirock and Mudsdale, but Torterra as a common rocker complicates this niche. It can still pull it off but really needs to give up a moveslot for either Toxic or Ice Beam, making it much more abusable. It sees a lot of competition with Aromatherapy Lurantis which can still somewhat check all 3 common rocks and not have to deal with ghosts blocking spin. Claydol still has a niche as a soft rock/fighting check over Lurantis, but a drop on the VR is warranted.

vs
This one is more a discussion point than a nomination. There was some discussion on Discord about the viability of these similar rockers in the current meta and the various benefits and drawbacks of each and I wanted to see what people's thoughts on these is here. I don't know exactly where I'd place these or how they should be placed in relation to each other but I don't think where they are currently (Metang in B and Bronzor in C) really reflects how viable they are. Would love to see other's thoughts on these as I really don't use either very much.

Thanks for reading! :blobwizard:
 
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Big post incoming:

A+ -> S Might be a bit early for this, but I think Torterra has proven it deserves to be S rank. First off, Tort has a very large amount of effective sets. Bulky Rocks(Spdef or Physdef), RP, SD Synth, Offensive Rocks, etc. are all highly effective at what they aim to accomplish and will almost always get value even vs teams well prepped for it. When you also account for lure potential lure sets that haven't been explored too much yet such as Band, Dual Dance, and Sub sets, checking Torterra can become really tough. With all this in mind, it has become increasingly hard to justify not running it in a way I think is comparable to Eel. I hope this post can spark a lot of good discussion and some more posts, cause i don't feel like going more into depth than this. :psysly:

A -> A+ In this meta where you really want to run Torterra, fitting Hail and Fire checks becomes very important and nothing fills this roll better than Jellicent. It has a surprising amount of versatility and can really be customized to fit your teams needs while rarely sacrificing its ability to check most of the things its meant to. Need it to be able to check Gurdurr and Sandslash the most? Phys Def is the best mon in the tier that covers both. Need it to stop Simisear/Combusken along with special Ices? Spdef stops them all bar specs Aurorus. And whats great about Jelli is that it can customize its EVs like this while still soft checking the things on the other side of the spectrum. Thanks to its fantastic natural bulk along with how broken Cursed Body can be while spamming Recover, mons that should in theory beat you like Cryogonal, Lanturn, or Stoutland can get walled out. When you consider everything Defensive sets can do and factor in more niche sets like OTR Z move or Specs, i think Jelli is easily an A+ mon.

B+ -> A- This one feels like a no brainer with the recent success it's had in tournaments. With yet another bulky rocker in the tier running Skuntank is harder to pull off. The recent rise of Offensive Future Sight sets alongside classics like Barrier or Z-Gleam have made Musharna a big threat in the current meta. With each of the four or so sets Musharna runs counterplay varies and you really have very little indication of what set it might be from team preview. This enables Musharna to be either a strong early game breaker or a late game wincon that's hard to play against and I feel A- is representative of that effectiveness.

B+ -> B/B- Type Null really struggles atm. There are tons of obstacles to it sweeping that it needs a lot of support to remove such as Ferroseed, Jellicent/Sableye, and strong physical breakers like Stoutland, Banded Primeape, Gurdurr etc. With all these checks, the only set it can really run successfully is as a blanket special pivot with U-turn, but it's really subpar at this as well. Thanks to all the random residual damage common in the meta like hazards, Rocky Helmet, and Hail, its forced to Rest often and becomes highly exploitable. I'd really like to see this drop two subranks but B might make more sense to some people idk.

B- -> B Leafeon has the useful niche of being really the only offensive mon that can reliably switch into pretty much any Torterra set comfortably. This is quite valuable as most hard Torterra counters like Tangela or Bronzor are really easy to abuse while Leafeon can threaten basically the entire meta with its great speed tier, solid physical bulk and decent coverage paired with SD and z moves. I believe you should be running Synthesis and SD always to be able to reliably beat Regi, Tort, and Muds but you can customize the rest of the set to suit your teams needs. Z Leaf Blade or Z Double Edge can break through common grass resists like Skunk or Knock can be used to cripple other checks such as Ferroseed or Tangela. Even other niche sets such as Heal Bell or Z celebrate can find success. Overall I think this is a mon that got just a bit better with the recent shift and a rise on the VR would reflect that.

B -> B-/C+ Claydol had a decent niche last meta with Refresh to be able to wall Regirock and Mudsdale, but Torterra as a common rocker complicates this niche. It can still pull it off but really needs to give up a moveslot for either Toxic or Ice Beam, making it much more abusable. It sees a lot of competition with Aromatherapy Lurantis which can still somewhat check all 3 common rocks and not have to deal with ghosts blocking spin. Claydol still has a niche as a soft rock/fighting check over Lurantis, but a drop on the VR is warranted.

vs
This one is more a discussion point than a nomination. There was some discussion on Discord about the viability of these similar rockers in the current meta and the various benefits and drawbacks of each and I wanted to see what people's thoughts on these is here. I don't know exactly where I'd place these or how they should be placed in relation to each other but I don't think where they are currently (Metang in B and Bronzor in C) really reflects how viable they are. Would love to see other's thoughts on these as I really don't use either very much.

Thanks for reading! :blobwizard:
A+ -> S Might be a bit early for this, but I think Torterra has proven it deserves to be S rank. First off, Tort has a very large amount of effective sets. Bulky Rocks(Spdef or Physdef), RP, SD Synth, Offensive Rocks, etc. are all highly effective at what they aim to accomplish and will almost always get value even vs teams well prepped for it. When you also account for lure potential lure sets that haven't been explored too much yet such as Band, Dual Dance, and Sub sets, checking Torterra can become really tough. With all this in mind, it has become increasingly hard to justify not running it in a way I think is comparable to Eel. I hope this post can spark a lot of good discussion and some more posts, cause i don't feel like going more into depth than this. :psysly:

Could not agree more. Grass in general as an offensive typing gives the tier a lot to handle as there are very few Pokemon that can reliably switch into this tree headass thing. It can also reliably recover on many pokemon giving it longevity and utility in almost every scenario.

If any of you watch me play PU, you will see I am a huge advocate of the rock polish 3 attack set (stone edge, wood hammer, earthquake). This set in my opinion is borderline broken. It will net a kill every single game AT LEAST. Bloom Doom (Z grass) is absolutely devastating, as it will OHKO Eelektross from full almost always (252+ Atk Torterra Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eelektross: 363-427 (97 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO), Mudsdales, Regirocks, and many other super viable Pokemon. This along with Stone Edge will ensure your opponent will have tons of trouble dealing with this monster. Gurdurr, another top tier Pokemon here, gets obliterated by this beast as an Earthquake + bloom doom set will send it to the stars. I can go on and on about the great things this set can do, and how it may centralize the tier to a degree (rise in ice types, Gourgeist usage, etc). Overall, there is almost no switchins and counterplay when this thing gets a rock polish setup, thus why this thing is unhealthy.
 
I'm nominating Silvally-Dragon to move from B- -> B/B+
In my opinion Silvally-Dragon is a a much more splashable mon and can offer more than other mon's in B- tier. This mon can offer crazy amounts of offensive presence to a team, being able to punch holes with its stab draco meteor + Flamethrower/Ice beam to be able to reliably check or counter a crazy amount of high vr mon's. Its respectable bulk and speed stat also allow it to switch in on a lot of mons and defog for free, then retaliate on whatever is in front of it, or move out of the way with a U-Turn/Parting shot.

Some prevalent mon's Silvally-Dragon(252 SpA/252 Spe Timid) fares well against are:
Eelektross - Eelektross is free defog food for Dragonvally with it's strongest move on its typical set on its typical set being a possible 5hko, and the rest being a 6hko or worse, that in tandem with draco meteor dealing a chunk (36.3 - 43.3%) and then being able to parting shot to cripple eel's offenses makes dragonvally a solid switch in, although not a check/counter on its own
Torterra - Dragonvally is a check to all offensive torterra sets, and a counter to all defensive sets, ice beam is a guaranteed ohko to any offensive set, and can take any move from an unboosted torterra, while non offensive sets cant touch dragonvally and are atleast 2hko'd by dragonvally
A-Sandslash - Flamethrower has a chance to ohko spdef a-sandslash, and only takes a max of 68.8% from icicle crash, while still outspeeding it, guarantee'd ohko on non spdef sets, does get ohko'd by subzero slammer when they outspeed in hail though :(
Victreebell- Dragonvally counters Victree, outspeeding and 2hkoing with Draco, Ice beam, or flamethrower, while sludgebomb deals a max of 46.2% back
And for the sake of time im going to lightning round the rest---------------------
Drampa - Check, as Vally outspeeds and ohko's with draco
Ferroseed- Flamethrower 2hko's and free defog
Oricorio E- Outspeeds and 2hko's with ice beam, or 3hko's if they roost every time
Qwilfish- Gets defogged on and 2hko'd by draco,
I could go on but i'm dragging at this point.

As for replay data i'm providing this - https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pu-462576 --- Round 9 Snake draft Xiri vs taskr
Xiri abused draco meteor, using it to injure or kill some of the obstacles in his path, such as the Lanturn, snowslash, and combusken.
Thank you for reading, and please consider rising this mon
 
It's been ages since I did anything like this but I figured I'd leave my thoughts one some stuff

A -> A+ Agree
With tort around Ice types and fire types are stronger than ever and super hard to check. Jellicent can perform this really well and reliably thanks to his strong recovery, and is also a good supportive mon with cool options like taunt, hex, wow/tox and scald. Like lst said, depending on what you want it to check, the EV spread is pretty splashable and it can even run a shitton of speed to outspeed some zany stuff like offensive crab. Offensive sets are also still rather effective, specs being able to abuse pretty much every current rocker in the tier and to lure in stuff like eel, special skunk among others, outside of having few reliable switchins.

B- -> B Agree
I'll make this short since lst already brought everything relevant about it up. Leafeon's just nice for being able to abuse torterra, no matter what its set is. SD/Z Leaf Blade/Knock/Synthesis is obviously the main set, but I can see stuff like Z celebrate or even Toxic work, depending on the matchup. Its speed tier is also somewhat nice, letting it outspeed the Oris, non scarf FrostTom and Kanga while tying Silvallies, Primeape and Haunter. Overall it just feels like a splashable tool for a lot of bulky offense teams, and Torterra's drop obviously made him better

C -> B- (or higher?)

While I still think that, despite Torterra hurting him, Metang is a cool tool for the role compression it brings to a team without being to passive, I obviously think Bronzor got better. On the one side it's still very passive, relying on Toxic/Psywave to deal any form of damage and is forced to run Rest ; turning him into a setup bait for stuff like Alolan Persian or Simisear. On the other hand, it brings a much appreciated check to normal, grass, ice and ground types ; and to most of our current rocks users and removers. Thanks to eviolite, it also has a respectable bulk, allowing him to at least set rocks up in pretty much every matchup, and to really perform in some, especially if your opponent is lacking strong pursuit users. This is imo enough to warrant a rise cause I really don't see it fitting on the same level as stuff like probopass. I didn't play Metang a lot recently, but I don't think those are THIS similar. They are in the mons they keep in check but that's pretty much it, their roles and the playstyles they fit the best in being mostly different, not sure if Metang should move for now.

Rly quickly : I also agree on the Dragonvally point, it's a scary offensive pivot that can take advantage of a lot of stuff rn thanks to stab draco meteor having few reliable switchins, and as silvally forms go it might be the best at hitting stuff and pivoting right now, thanks to all the nice options silvallies have up their sleeve (ibeam for turtle, uturn for Regirock/Carbink..)

Now just for a couple of noms

C+ -> B- Brought to you by tlenit1 productions
For similar reasons as Bronzor's, I just feel Carbink should be ranked at least slightly higher. It keeps some scary stuff in check, mostly normal, dark and flying types, parting shot users thanks to clear body and is arguably the only thing you can somewhat reliably switch into Simisear. It got some use in snake, mostly in Xiri teams (check here : https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7pu-462197) with the goat cm rest set, being able to turn it into a bulky wincon and status absorber, which can be very handy in some matchups, providing in one slot a huge defensive backbone for the team, while admittedly somewhat shaky, passive and easy to pressure. It might sound odd to nom this to a higher rank now that tort is here but I just feel it's been quite slept on. Besides, it turns out to be a good partner for the turtle, being able to sponge a lot of its weaknesses and to run rocks, freeing Torterra to run any other set it'd like (the same goes for Bronz btw)

A+ -> A
Really not sure about that one, but I thought I'd bring this up anyway. While offensive sets are still really strong, I find little to no reason to run SpDef Alolaslash right now, which was admittedly its best option for a good while. Mesprit leaving made it less and less relevant, and while tort being here makes the offensive sets and overall any ice type really strong right now, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be more fitting for it to go down to A. It just doesn't feel like the glue you could put anywhere anymore to me, and it losing to rockers that aren't 4 times weak to its stabs do not help any rapid spin set rn.

Tried my best about my english, I hope it's good enough o/
 
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Tier is about to close out soon, I used to agree with 90% of everything, but the slow/rapid shake ups has been interesting and honestly in terms of micro-managing I think we have slowly made a decent but not on point list, like is skunk still A tier, null B+,and musdale A+? All have absolutely dropped over time, like You're not going to make me personally believe mudsdale is the same monster as he was in the guzzlord/mes meta where it could get away with being an actual messed up win con with resto chesto vs 70% of teams after their 1 mudsdale special wallbreaker was gone and now I see him with with a cryo/jelli,qwilfish,vic, tort, and eel heavy meta to completely blanket check mudsdale without thinking. With this line of thinking here are some of my thoughts

S
  • :Eelektross: Eelektross
    (This Guy isn't S, BUT is actually kind of better on preview if they aren't running any hard counters to standard eel(urasing, faticate, better eel, banded pinsir mold breaker, cryo, tort, smeargle(or shiinotic/any sleeper mon if real),but While I think his standard set has gotten worse, his mixed sets have gotten better, You can drop flamethrower if You have a ferro,vic tangla,tort, lursatis answer after a knock, otherwise drain punch hits all the fire targets better in a lot of cases, like You can play with his Evs, item, and moveset now and watch people flinch/toxic/turn/knock off instead of calling You out for not being vested. I've been running a sub, coil, t-punch, drain punch, lefties set that first worked with hitmonchan for me. The set itself is probably only B+ itself with T-spike support people having been running wilder coverage that makes me doubt switching in/staying in with some mons and it can start to work.

    Shoutouts to U-turn, hp ice, drain punch, but none to t-bolt or scarf, meh. Drop to S-
A-Rank

A+

  • :Gurdurr: Gurdurr( toxic façade is awesome vs mush)
  • Mudsdale(A)
  • Torterra( Should drop to A, I just can't understand why at all it's so high, thing literally loses to smart fundamental team building, banded, or bulky rocks probably best sets imo, like if You run a good hazard control it 1 vs 1s it, swanna, cryo, half of chans, snowslash with schuca can literally ram into Z earthquake, out speed and KO without any attack investment,and most standard wallbreakers, hail and scarfers also can check it. I literally have no idea why people keep thinking it's S, when it starts running curse rest on stall it'll be really scary in terms of compression. Check out the other A+ mons tort ain't there.

A

  • Jellicent(Agree A+, it's honestly part of the scariest defensive cores in terms of uses, stalling,cursed body, taunting, status, spinblocking, and it's why mudsdale is more meh, cause good teams want to beat jelli and happen to hit mudsdale too most often. it's other sets are good too, but it would be A+ without any other item besides Z/clobur berry
  • Lanturn, (I want a better item to run on it, heal bell is super clean on most teams, 2nd best A imo)
  • Primeape (he is slowly falling off, fine for now, struggling with power and coverage outside of bad plays vs it)
  • Qwilfish(A+ this is hands down the best hazard setter and with smart building cannot ever be counter lead(qwil+ cryo/jelli/kel, volt turner, silvally dragon,or anything that can take advantage of a -1 attack mon that has to use electric, ground, or psychic, and even vs primape they have to click E-quake and let a flying/levi/grass mon completely set up in Your face for it. qwilfish will always put Your team at some kind of plus and is scary flexible able to really pick and choose, I've been running liquidation for cryo lately who can't really 1 hit kill qwil after rocks. Someone start using SD dodrio/Ape with Adrenaline Orb if You wanna hard counter qwilfish teams. I think this should be at A+ more than anything else written from here.
  • Skuntank
    It's worse
    way worse

    good still.
    ...
    drop it to A- it doesn't stop qwilfish, tort, regi, ,muds, and at the end of the day has to do way to much than what it's stats can allow, it's like a different take on swanna that hits ferro
  • :Stoutland(mega Zard is right about a drop, but meta shift away from the bulk needed to stop stout so let it stay a little longer, on paper it should be A-, but this mon is nuts, use it You passive 40 hour work week bitch, be real)
A-
  • :Abomasnow(Monster, use it if You're a real teambuilder)
  • Absol( I think absol is trash..., if You want a mon that will be a nuke and always kill confirm, use Z double edge faticate(1 hit KO eel), You can run 12 defense and outspeed, bulk, damage absol, absols only niche is superpower for regirock,ferro,aggron like mons that faticate can't break. otherwise, I have one question... aright if stoutland could pursuit trap/KO the same target why are You using absol??? This mon always falls flat on it's face if the user doesn't build suboptimal just to SD on a switch, while yes faticate is trash 100% of 20% of the time, it can come in way more often and can always always drop a Z-move where absol often has to choose not to get a kILL, literally go look up faticate bulk/breaking. absol is for greedy people who wan to run superpower, sucker punch, Sword dance who aren't afraid to let it be a usless piece of shit in 1/3 of their games where Z rat will always do more, take more, and beat other absols, stop being a meme, pursuit trapping is mindlessly easy to cover in this tier, should You switch a jelli for a mush to always wall break eel and Sd and tank also? 20% whiff Is worth imo, B+ mon at best.
  • Combusken(mess with other T-spike mons, still good but ask if something wouldn't be btter)
  • Cryogonal(This thing is a God and idk care how many hazards are up, it's stupid specially bulky idc about Your swanna and nonsense and it pairs so perfectly with qwilfish/jellicent I literally don't run rocks on 1/3 my teams. also life orb flash cannon is nasty for beating down other cryo/regi, RANK A
B-Rank

B+

  • Aggron(pair with qwilfish/scythe/butterfree teams)
  • :Audino: Audino(when stall comes back this is it's face and when stall COMES BACK PUT IT AT a, IT'S SCARy)
    [Sexy Tier
  • :lurantis(Sub no defog)

  • :Gastrodon: Gastrodonlike really? cool Your have list of mon it pairs with with. but if it isn't scarf You shouldn't used qwilfish and if Your wanted damage vic is stupidly better, what are You actually doing? Dtop to C+ if You're nice
  • Haunter, alright..., what does this do?
    (creative team tier)
  • Hitmonchan, try non spin
B-
  • Kecleon(You can run max attack fire and always on paper anr practice beat vic bell, try it on kanga spikes
  • Mawile, use silvally fairy... drop to C
  • :Raticate-Alola(B normally better than absol+ 20% is still better)
  • Silvally-Dragon(rise by idk much)
C-Rank

C+

  • Carbink(really good check it out, it's calm rest is known, but it's just an insane defensive pivot, like it covers both banded dodrio and specs drampa, I mean??? it's a great mon on some teams B-
  • Roselia(special wall spike stacking on vic is fine)
  • Scyther(amazing scarf set PM for a balance team.)
  • Ursaring(God Mon
 
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Megazard

The turtle moves
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Top Team Rater Alumnus
PU Leader
:Leafeon: B- to B+ - ok so this thing finally feels usable now that it has a defensive purpose with Torterra and speed control has changed to stuff it can slap around and there's less fat Slashes. Or maybe it was this good all along and I didn't give it a fair shake? idts but either way I'm 100% on board with this thing now and don't even think B is high enough because Z-Celebrate is just a legitimately strong wincon in a meta where we have depressingly few late-game setup sweepers.

:Silvally:-Poison unranked to C+ - This is also a fine mon, not amazing and I can see it only being ranked at C but it's also proven itself worthy of not starting out in D and slowly moving up. It does a lot of what Silvally-Fairy does defensively, just trading the Dark resist for checking Victreebel and other Grasses and removing Tspikes, all of which is just generally nice. I feel like if the meta continued on for another few months it might fall off again and drop a bit, but at least for now I've got no real qualms with the specific role compression this offers.

:Bellossom: B- to C - This just isn't good, I thought about recommending it even lower but it's not completely unreasonable yet, just really hard to justify wanting to use anywhere. We just have too many checks to it all around and the 4mss is real.

:Liepard: C- to C+ - Ok this one I haven't used but Teddeh's convinced me it's at least worth this much (although he might place it higher idk). Solid speed control and pursuit trapping and utility here, not the easiest mon to use but clearly sticks out over Absol and Skuntank unlike the next mon

:Raticate-Alola: B- to C+ - I don't want to use this ever. It's not bad, just outclassed, which is why I'm not nominating it lower, but it should say a lot when the only notable usage of it I've seen recently is as a Final Gambit lure. The other Dark-types are just too good.

:Bronzor: C to C+ - B- is too high imo, Bronzor is certainly better with the ability to check Torterra, Cryo and SD Fairyvally getting more popular, and a bit more Drampa around, but we're also seeing an awful lot of Pursuit and Knock Off everywhere that still make supporting this thing more of a hassle than it ought to be. It's gotten a bit better, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

:Ursaring: C+ to C - Trick Room isn't really a thing anymore. When it does see usage Ursaring is mandatory and Guts off of Trick Room isn't 100% irrelevant so I think C is still fine, but we've kind of just ignored its placing rather than adjusting for how drastically the meta's shifted. Speaking of which...

:Volbeat: C+ to C - Weather is usable but not where it once was, and defensive is ass. Can't really see much of a reason to keep it in C+. Like it doesn't look super bad in the rank right now, but if we got Liepard and Poisonvally in there and drop Ursaring it starts sticking out a lot more.

I also agree that Jellicent is clearly an A+ mon right now and probably better than a few things in there, real stupid at times and 100% deserves a rise
 
Got some nominations to talk about. Will be addressing some of ICG's thoughts on some stuff (not everything or I'd be here forever and I hate dragging stuff out), Megazard's stuff and also my stuff which is ooh very exciting.

INSANE CARZY GUY's Stuff

: Idk what makes you think Absol is trash. I think Absol is better than its direct competition faticate for a variety of reasons and the vr shows that. Faticate's biggest problem is not only the fact it misses, making it much less consistent than Absol, its also x4 weak to Fighting meaning its always so vulnerable to Mach Punch, letting the fighting matchup be completely impossible to win when Absol can always live a Mach Punch from full from Gurdurr and kill it with +2 Play Rough. The fact that Absol has had good representation in snake and actually doing things when the best thing faticate has done is use final gambit just shows the difference in power between these two. Absol rise was warranted and its only niche isnt only Superpower (I would consider Play Rough > Superpower because you actually beat Gurdurr with that).

: I was extremely baffled when I read "tort loses to smart fundamental team building". That is one of the most vague statements that I've ever read. That applies to any pokemon if you prepare for a certain mon. Perhaps you were trying to get across another meaning but I just read that and thought "that doesn't have any meaning whatsoever". Either way, I would say it's too early to call Tort to be A when it's literally becoming one of the top meta mons rn. Sure, we'll slowly adapt to it (ice punch scarf ape etc) but tort is just too dangerous and versatile to be anything lower than A+ imo.

Nominations I agree with

Ranking
-Poison: Poisonvally is my third most used Silvally-forme atm (behind fairy and ghost) and I have to say I've been impressed by how much it is capable of. It feels good as a Fighting-resist and Grass-resist, checking stuff that is on the rise rn like Victreebel and Lurantis quite well. Silvally-Poison definitely has more use than the likes of Silvally-Water imo when that thing is C+ and I believe Silvally-Poison isn't as niche as it was in previous metas where it was D and it deserves C/C+ just because of its overall utility as a Silvally forme.

Rise: Grass gang getting stronger every day. Leafeon has always been kinda underrated and it shines much more when its one of our sweepers that don't really care for our new rocker Torterra thanks to its Ground resistance and good physical bulk. People tend to forget how fast Leafeon actually is and that's one of its best points. It's able to set up on a lot of common stuff like Mudsdale and Torterra with either Swords Dance or Z-Celebrate and outspeed all the mid speed tier breakers which everyone loves slapping onto teams like Victreebel, Stoutland, Absol and beat them into submission and it definitely feels like one of our best consistent sweepers because of the speed tier and its not overall a frail mon.

Nominations I disagree with

Drop: Tbh there isn't really much reason to drop Ursaring rn. I think it's fine where it is. I dislike how it has been confined to Trick Room archetypes when it's perfectly functional outside of it. It's quite similar to Drampa in terms of how you utilise the mon. Slow Volt-turn into it, immediately activates Guts and then you break something. Sounds simple enough. Ursaring is really only this low because of major competition from the other normal breakers and I don't even think Zangoose is that much better than it, Ursaring is stronger, has much longer longevity in my opinion and despite the fact Zangoose is faster, speed on a breaker isn't the make or break, Drampa is a slug and it's our most dangerous special wallbreaker. C+ is fine.

My own Nominations

B to B-/C+: This mon is so underwhelming. It just doesn't succeed in this meta thanks to the fact it doesn't break anything and just dies because it's extremely frail. It doesn't have good matchups at all in the meta: loses to Tort, Eel, infinitely walled by Regi and Muds, loses to Jelli and the Fighting trio screw it over. So many meta mons that just stop it in its tracks and it seriously feels like a 5v6 when using this mon. Its best set Subtoxic (oh believe me I'm not using scarf, band, LO) is decent at best, doing well against defensive balance type teams where its sub has a lower chance of being broken against passive things but it's extremely easy for those teams to fit Heal Bell support from Audino/Lanturn and it just renders this mon ineffective. Wouldn't mind seeing this in B- but I don't think I'm pushing it with C+ because it's really not good rn and has been falling off for a quite a while.

-Ghost D to C+: Last time I checked, this is not Guzzlord meta and Ghostvally2 isn't dead weight anymore. Ghostvally still has great utility in spinblocking, pivoting, hazard removal and being a fighting check and D is not reflective of its capabilities as of now. Ghostvally also appreciates the declining Skuntank usage. Unfort that Silvally-Ghost often struggles with breaking stuff but I then remember its not supposed to be a breaker, it can kill what it needs to kill. Flamethrower deals with Ferro and Alolaslash, I could see Ice Beam being run for Torterra now, stopping the Rock Polish when it's already used its Z because ghostvally has enough bulk not to get ohko'd. In my honest opinion, idt this is a C+ rank mon and it deserves to be B-/B but no one is gonna agree there so C+ is a good start.

Thanks for reading guys. Keep calm and use Endure Weakness Policy Weak Armor Kabutops (the Weak Kabutops). Crazy set in the right conditions.
 

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