Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings

There's a lot I want to talk about in this post because theres a lot I straight-up dont agree with.

Tangela drop:
I woke up and I read this and I was thinking "the only thing comparable about Ferro and Tangela is the fact that they are small-looking grass types". It made me question if you have ever used Tangela because Ferro and Tangela do not do the same thing. Tangela is a physical wall who is able to pivot into the majority of our physical attackers like ape, golurk, stoutland being the most important imo and etc and ferro is a hazard setter which lacks Tangela's physical bulk so it is not able to pivot into attacks as well as Tangela but does possess the better defensive typing. Then you mention using victreebel as the better fighting check rather than Tangela and I just sigh at this point. Once again, you cannot compare these pokemon because they are so different. Sure, victreebel is a fighting resist due to its poison typing but when hit with coverage like chan's ice punch, it folds. Tangela is a fighting check because it doesnt take much damage from any of our fighting types then can just switch out.

I think you just miss the point of why people use Tangela and a drop for it when Stoutland still exists in the tier alongside other threatening physical attackers is uncalled for.

Ursaring drop:
I dont have much to say on this, ursa is kinda bad rn and is just outclassed by any normal type above it. What ursa does excel at which it does better than even Stout is stallbreaking. Breaking more defensive teams is the best thing Ursa does because it can just 2hko everything in the tier with its Guts set and isnt actually locked in like Stout is. This niche alone can probably keep ursa around C, it's not D material imo.

Leavanny rise:
"Premier sticky web setter" webs kinda sucks rn but that's beside the point because you're addressing the sd set. You mention the fact that bug/grass can threaten a lot but this mon has a lot of problems. Weaknesses to common typings like Ice, Flying and a rocks weakness doesnt make it a reliable set up sweeper compared to something like Dodrio (rocks weakness ik) but has higher attack, higher speed and stronger STABs.

I also wanted to address your calcs which I find quite irrelevant. Ik you want to show how much Leavanny does at +2 but using ev spreads that dont exist like max defence jelli, max defence mudsdale, 0 defence gurdurr oel and doing calcs on physically frailer mons like z move at +0 like victreebel isnt necessary cuz we all know its gonna kill if its unresisted.
Tangela: You're denying the fact that Ferroseed also switches into Golurk and Stoutland (with a little prediction) alongside other physical threats including Skuntank, Dodrio, and AlolaSlash. If I wanted a Grass-type physical wall on my team, I would be going with Ferroseed over Tangela 90% of the time, given its invaluable support capabilities. This is because Ferroseed can take on a variety of special attackers that Tangela straight up loses to. Tangela is more of a catch-all defensive pivot that performs only one role that Ferroseed can do equally as well. Also, Ferroseed has an immunity to Toxic, a very important defensive asset that Tangela lacks. I don't know how to make this argument without comparing the two because Ferroseed dropping is the only reason I'm making this nomination in the first place.

Ursaring: If I wanted a half-decent Normal-type stall breaker, I would just use Zangoose, who, with Adamant, has comparable power to Ursaring (even more so than Stoutland does). The reason I bring up Adamant is because Adamant Zangoose is still notably faster than Adamant/Jolly Ursaring and if I truly wanted a stall breaker, Adamant would be preferred. Additionally, Zangoose has access to Knock Off, allowing it to cripple stuff like Gurdurr and Tangela. The two aren't even in the same ballpark yet Zangoose is B- and Ursaring is literally one subrank lower at C+, which is a travesty to say the least. Nevertheless, it seems that you're content with Ursaring dropping to C or C-, so I'm fine with that.

Leavanny: I'm not sure why you're comparing Leavanny to Dodrio since Leavanny is unranked and Dodrio is all the way up in A. From what I understand, mons that are ranked are ones that have distinct niches in the tier, which Leavanny does. I'm only arguing for this thing to be ranked at all; I'm not saying that this thing should be anywhere close to Dodrio. Leavanny having common weaknesses should not invalidate it since Lycanroc and Absol have an even worse weakness to Fighting, yet they're solid SD sweepers. Again, I'm nomming this mon for <C rank , which I think is more than fair since it is able to threaten so many defensive cores with its STAB coverage. Sticky Web is an optional fourth-slot move as well to demonstrate that Leavanny can provide utility and that it is more than a one-trick pony.
 

Specs

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Tangela is more of a catch-all defensive pivot that performs only one role that Ferroseed can do equally as well.
I don't think Ferroseed performs the role Tangela has equally as well. The lack of fighting weakness is actually pretty good for it, allowing it to come in on Stoutland (more reliably) Primeape Gurdurr (it gets knocked but u win the 1v1 easily) Hitmonchan ect. It's just about as good of a normal resist tbh, you don't actually resist but the access to reliable recovery in Synthesis and a great ability in Regenerator means you pivot in just about as well. Yeah Tangela has poor Spdef but it's not like anybody is arguing that Tangela could compete in that department with Ferroseed. I just don't really see why they're being compared so hard in your original post, as well as saying Tangela is somehow outclassed by Ferroseed. Sure yeah they're bulky grass types, but the comparison pretty much ends there. Ferroseed has the utility in spikes rocks, can afford to go either spdef or physdef depending on what you want to beat/what the team needs from it, iron barbs is cool to wear down mons, ect. Tangela has the better phys def allowing it to be a better physical meta check, having access to Regenerator allows it to pivot easier, actually has a pretty good offensive presence, fits on balance better imo, ect. All in all on paper maybe they look fairly similar, but in practice they perform different roles and in turn Tangela isn't 'outclassed' by Ferroseed. Don't agree with this nom to drop it.
 

uhuhuhu7

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Stay A+
People have already said what I wanted to say about Gurdurr, but to recap:
Gurdurr on its own isn't particularly difficult to build around, but rather the combination of both Gurdurr and Primeape. As a soft example, Victreebel is one of our best Gurdurr checks, but it does not check Primeape whatsoever, and covering both Pokemon without overlapping weaknesses can often be difficult. Combine this with all the set variations; Gurdurr with Toxic can lure in and take out Jellicent, Sableye etc, SpDef Gurdurr makes it a lot harder to break with the likes of Omastar, and then you have Band Primeape tearing down holes in would-be checks such as Mudsdale. Altogether they both make building pretty difficult, but individually I'd argue neither is particularly centralising.
Also, while Mesprit was certainly one of Gurdurr's best counters, it's worth noting that Healing Wish was incredible support for Gurdurr that isn't available on any other high ranking Pokemon; Gurdurr can't switch in on Pokémon like Stoutland anymore and still expect to set-up freely late game. Keep it A+ and let the meta develop a bit more.

Speaking of Stoutland...

Stay A-
I don't know how you can talk about how threatening Fighting types are while still suggesting this thing should drop; with the exception of maybe Sableye, Tangela is arguably the best fighting switchin in the tier right now. Eviolite is incredible for it, but not a necessity, and it can still consistently deal with Gurdurr regardless. Primeape can't touch it outside of using U-Turn to switch into a breaker, which, while an issue, is also true of pretty much every other switchin (Silvally-Fairy, Mudsdale etc.) and I think even with Victreebel's rise (who takes a ton from HP Fire btw) Tangela's doing more than enough to keep its current rank. Being able to do this, while also blanket checking most other physical attackers in the tier is not something Ferroseed can mirror, due to its Fighting-type weakness (making matchups vs Stoutland iffy) and limited recovery outside of Leech Seed. They have some cross-over, but they're used in very different defensive cores.

Now, back to Gurdurr...

Stay B+
Silvally-Fairy is getting a bit overhyped. Not much to say that others haven't, but it loses the 1v1 to Gurdurr if it's not at full health and struggles to remove hazards due to how easily both Regirock and Mudsdale set up on it (i.e. they can just switch in every time Silvally tries to Defog). It's fine glue, but it's not particularly great in either role it tries to perform.

Stay Unranked
Not entirely sure what the "niche" of this mon is exactly. It seems alright for taking on the typical Mudsdale/Eelektross cores floating about, but it's dead weight in just as many matchups (e.g. Ferroseed and Sandslash-Alola smoke you). It's weak to hazards, has little to no defensive utility (outside of checking Gurdurr, which is neat), and is forced out by anything faster, which normally isn't an issue (see similarly frail mons like Dodrio and Raichu-Alola) but when you're weak to hazards and have a typing like this it's really hard to find more than one setup opportunity, and Leavanny just doesn't have the natural speed or power to make up for this. It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats.

Stay C+
Ursaring and Zangoose aren't the same; Ursaring has much more power and if anything is probably better than before since Mesprit's left and it can abuse the slower fat rockers that are getting traction instead. I don't have much to say on this because I don't think I've used the mon myself enough personally but I don't think m3po's nomination was particularly convincing.

Stay A+
Sorry Skitty, but I think Stoutland is just as threatening as ever and there's not a good argument to drop it. Regirock is getting more use, but Mudsdale and Gurdurr find it a lot harder to check Stoutland without the fallback plan Healing Wish Scarf Mesprit provided. Victreebel's an incredible partner for Stoutland and makes it a lot harder to play against Stoutland with the standard checks we've always used in the past (i.e. Mudsdale, Ferroseed, Tangela, Gurdurr again). All in all this Pokemon is still very very good.

TL;DR keep everything the same
I want to offer my support to the Sensu and Leafeon nominations; they were argued well and I have nothing more to add.
 
Stay A+
People have already said what I wanted to say about Gurdurr, but to recap:
Gurdurr on its own isn't particularly difficult to build around, but rather the combination of both Gurdurr and Primeape. As a soft example, Victreebel is one of our best Gurdurr checks, but it does not check Primeape whatsoever, and covering both Pokemon without overlapping weaknesses can often be difficult. Combine this with all the set variations; Gurdurr with Toxic can lure in and take out Jellicent, Sableye etc, SpDef Gurdurr makes it a lot harder to break with the likes of Omastar, and then you have Band Primeape tearing down holes in would-be checks such as Mudsdale. Altogether they both make building pretty difficult, but individually I'd argue neither is particularly centralising.
Also, while Mesprit was certainly one of Gurdurr's best counters, it's worth noting that Healing Wish was incredible support for Gurdurr that isn't available on any other high ranking Pokemon; Gurdurr can't switch in on Pokémon like Stoutland anymore and still expect to set-up freely late game. Keep it A+ and let the meta develop a bit more.

Speaking of Stoutland...

Stay A-
I don't know how you can talk about how threatening Fighting types are while still suggesting this thing should drop; with the exception of maybe Sableye, Tangela is arguably the best fighting switchin in the tier right now. Eviolite is incredible for it, but not a necessity, and it can still consistently deal with Gurdurr regardless. Primeape can't touch it outside of using U-Turn to switch into a breaker, which, while an issue, is also true of pretty much every other switchin (Silvally-Fairy, Mudsdale etc.) and I think even with Victreebel's rise (who takes a ton from HP Fire btw) Tangela's doing more than enough to keep its current rank. Being able to do this, while also blanket checking most other physical attackers in the tier is not something Ferroseed can mirror, due to its Fighting-type weakness (making matchups vs Stoutland iffy) and limited recovery outside of Leech Seed. They have some cross-over, but they're used in very different defensive cores.

Now, back to Gurdurr...

Stay B+
Silvally-Fairy is getting a bit overhyped. Not much to say that others haven't, but it loses the 1v1 to Gurdurr if it's not at full health and struggles to remove hazards due to how easily both Regirock and Mudsdale set up on it (i.e. they can just switch in every time Silvally tries to Defog). It's fine glue, but it's not particularly great in either role it tries to perform.

Stay Unranked
Not entirely sure what the "niche" of this mon is exactly. It seems alright for taking on the typical Mudsdale/Eelektross cores floating about, but it's dead weight in just as many matchups (e.g. Ferroseed and Sandslash-Alola smoke you). It's weak to hazards, has little to no defensive utility (outside of checking Gurdurr, which is neat), and is forced out by anything faster, which normally isn't an issue (see similarly frail mons like Dodrio and Raichu-Alola) but when you're weak to hazards and have a typing like this it's really hard to find more than one setup opportunity, and Leavanny just doesn't have the natural speed or power to make up for this. It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats.

Stay C+
Ursaring and Zangoose aren't the same; Ursaring has much more power and if anything is probably better than before since Mesprit's left and it can abuse the slower fat rockers that are getting traction instead. I don't have much to say on this because I don't think I've used the mon myself enough personally but I don't think m3po's nomination was particularly convincing.

Stay A+
Sorry Skitty, but I think Stoutland is just as threatening as ever and there's not a good argument to drop it. Regirock is getting more use, but Mudsdale and Gurdurr find it a lot harder to check Stoutland without the fallback plan Healing Wish Scarf Mesprit provided. Victreebel's an incredible partner for Stoutland and makes it a lot harder to play against Stoutland with the standard checks we've always used in the past (i.e. Mudsdale, Ferroseed, Tangela, Gurdurr again). All in all this Pokemon is still very very good.

TL;DR keep everything the same
I want to offer my support to the Sensu and Leafeon nominations; they were argued well and I have nothing more to add.
First off, I apologize for my third post within the same day but I'm afraid I'll have to respond again due to some misunderstandings.

Leavanny: "It seems usable, but there's no reason to use this outside of "I really like Leavanny and want to use it" when you could be building around much better threats." It's usable and of course you can build around better threats, which can be said about almost every single mon in the C and D ranks. With that sort of reasoning, every single C-/D ranks mon should be Unranked since there are way better options out there. What I'm saying is that Leavanny has a defined niche (Sticky Web user and SD sweeper). I'm not saying it's good necessarily, but it's usable, and this goes for all Pokemon in the C/D ranks. You're not exactly telling me it's so bad that it should remain Unranked, you're simply telling me that it isn't very good, which can be said about all the Pokemon in the C/D ranks. Also, you said Ferroseed completely walls this thing, which isn't true because after +2, you kill it with Savage Spin-Out + X-Scissor while Ferroseed only 3HKOs back with Gyro Ball.

I forgot to mention the point that the SD set is used as a surprise tactic. When your opponent sees Leavanny, they'll assume it's Sticky Web and they'll switch in their Skuntank or whatever, and that gives you the opportunity to set up or bop them with Savage Spin-Out.

Ursaring: You're speaking hypothetically. You claimed that Ursaring is "probably" better now since Mesprit is gone. Uh...no. Ursaring wasn't or isn't used before or after Mesprit's departure so I doubt that Mesprit's rise had anything to do with Ursaring's usability. Besides, Choice Band Crabominable takes WAY more advantage of "fat rockers" like Mudsdale and Regirock than Ursaring ever would. But I digress.

Ursaring and Zangoose basically function the same way, except that Zangoose is much better. Ursaring has an Attack stat of 130 while Zangoose has an Attack stat of 115, so I wouldn't say that Ursaring hits MUCH harder. And besides, Zangoose's Speed advantage clearly offsets the slight Attack disadvantage. Below is a comparison:

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 195-231 (48.2 - 57.1%) -- 42.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 276-325 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 301-355 (74.5 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 195-231 (49.4 - 58.6%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Toxic Boost Zangoose Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 276-325 (70 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Guts Ursaring Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 301-355 (76.3 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As you can see, there is only about a 6% damage output between Zangoose and Ursaring, so I think you are really overexaggerating how much harder Ursaring hits than Zangoose.

Silvally-Fairy: The main argument from what I understand is that Silvally-Fairy loses to Mudsdale and Regirock, some of the tier's principal hazard setters. Hitmonchan and defensive AlolaSlash also lose to Mudsdale and Regirock respectively, so I'm not sure what this point is getting at in the first place. Furthermore, people are forgetting how versatile Silvally-Fairy is. You can run offensive Swords Dance, offensive pivot, or defensive Defogger. People (who probably haven't played too much with Silvally-Fairy) are nay-saying, claiming that "it loses to Regirock and Mudsdale". Okay, if you want, you can forego Parting Shot and run Toxic or something to cripple them, or whatever suits your team the best. Silvally-Fairy is very versatile offensively and defensively with Parting Shot, Toxic, Thunder Wave, and even Rest being viable utility options. You don't have to stick to the standard Parting Shot + Multi-Attack + Flamethrower + Defog set or the SD + Flame Charge set. With its good bulk and typing, Silvally-Fairy is extremely versatile, unlike some other one-trick ponies.
 
As someone who lusts after that ridiculous sticky web team play leavanny is easily my go to and I've played it a few ways, scarf(most sure fire way), reflect, special, utility, sash, Leftovers, and etc.

Webs aren't bad but there's only 2 ways to play them in pu in my experience. Super hyper offense(smeargle is probably the better setter) and match up spread which is basically bulky offense with an extra breaker and more focus on anti removal+weather check[banded floatzel nukes all with webs up]

And honestly webs are just worst than screens I've done both. There really isn't a niche in this tier for it because You're basically forced to pick weaker answers to the meta and play around other offensive teams.

And saying leavanny has a surprise doesn't get You up the ladder nor do any better than trade mons in a tournament set of 3 or 5 and that isn't worth ranking at all

Also You really need to post replays for an unranked mon and address the issues cause if that takes a team slot for sd, that's literally got to be Your win con or make room for it. Otherwise they can just make a trade and revenge and people aren't stupid they do look up sets if they don't know what a mon does

Also zangoose dies in one hit, the bear is TR
 
Ursaring's big bonus in the stall matchup is that it's way, way less suicidal than Zangoose. Best case scenario if Zangoose gets in on a sac with no chip damage it's living 7 turns max, and against stall chances are you'll be eating some hazards and rocky helmet chip at the very least. This makes it way easier to play around - chip when it sets up, a few careful switches and use of protect means the holes Zangoose makes can be limited pretty easily. Ursaring meanwhile only loses a measly 6% each turn, less than a Life Orb mon, while also being significantly fatter and still fast enough to outspeed all common stallmons. Stall can rely on Zangoose killing itself and hoping that what's left afterwards can deal with the rest of the enemy team, but Ursaring is a one-mon teamwipe threat to the playstyle.
 


From A -> A+ or S
I know this may be met with controversy but I believe this nomination is justified and more accurately reflects Victreebel's position in this meta.


Victreebel is a beast. It is perhaps the most reliable and most threatening wallbreaker in the current meta thanks to its almost unresisted coverage in Leaf Storm / Energy Ball + Sludge Bomb + Hidden Power Fire. What makes it more threatening is the fact that it can heal right back up when its health is getting low with Strength Sap.


The meta trends have also favoured Victreebel significantly. The ban of Lilligant meant that Vic has become PU’s strongest and most effective grass-type Pokémon. The departure of Mesprit and Guzz and the rise of Fighting-types in the current meta has made Victreebel even more splashable on teams as a consistent fighting check and wallbreaker. Similarly, the rise of bulky ground/rock types like Mudsdale, Quag and Regirock makes Vic’s Leaf Storm even more threatening. Vic’s most significant checks Skuntank, Alolaslash and Oricorio-E has seen decreased usage compared to previous metas. The current Vic resists that I have noticed are Ferroseed, Eel, Cryogonal and ironically Hitmonchan which could be dealt with easily by consistently wearing them down throughout the match by hazards and coming in on either a full forced Leaf Storm or HP Fire. Even Oricorio-E dies to a Z-Leaf Storm if it roosts. Moreover, Physical Victreebel can deal with those checks (bar Ferro) quite effectively.


The effect of Victreebel on the meta is noteworthy. We have seen mons including Muk, Crabominable, Type Null and even Flareon been used so that teams have a reliable way to check/counter Vic.

Victreebel is also versatile enough to warrant the S rank. Vic can run a physical SD set which is effective against most of its currents checks including Cryo, Eel, Crab and Type Null. Vic can also run Specs or just be a frightening sweeper under the Sun.

Vic also helps in teambuilding by not only being a reliable wallbreaker that checks fighting types but by absorbing Toxic Spikes and being a nice way to counterplay Sun teams with its ability Chlorophyll.

I would hope that this posts generates discussion on whether Vic is worthy of the S rank and would also love to hear what others think on this nomination.

Edit: Here's the SD physical Vic set - try it out:
Victreebel @ Iapapa Berry / Grassium Z
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Strength Sap
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Power Whip
- Poison Jab

Victreebel @ Grassium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade / Power Whip
- Poison Jab
- Sucker Punch
 
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Megazard

The turtle moves
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PU Leader
Open's done, let's do an update.

Rises:
Code:
Eelektross A+ to S
Victreebel A to A+
Silvally-Fairy B+ to A-
Oricorio-Sensu B+ to A-
Cryogonal B to B+
Absol B- to B
Claydol B- to B
Musharna C+ to B-
Leavanny Unranked to D
And drops:
Code:
Articuno A- to B+
Tangela A- to B+
Kabutops B+ to B
Bellossom B to B-
Scyther B to B-
Roselia B- to C+
Bouffalant C- to D
Basculin D to Unranked
Gourgeist-Super D to Unranked
:Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross: :Eelektross:
As before, the new voting sheet contains individual council members' reasonings for most of the nominations so I don't need to do my own explaining, but if you want more clarity on a particular change you can ask on discord, in the room, or in the SQSA thread. Snake is a pretty long tour so we'll probably do another slate before it's over while still keeping an eye on how the meta develops during the tournament.

As for a few discussion points: Alolan Persian A- to A and Leafeon B- to B both split us 50/50. The former is a question of is Alolan Persian really reaching its pre-Guzzlord heights or has our new Eel/Gurdurr/Victreebel-centric meta left it not quite as good, and the latter... honestly I don't know why people would think it deserves the same rank as Haunter, Metang, Lurantis, etc. but Natural Gift is a funny move.
 
You guys should know this was coming

193389

Lurantis: B to B+
We are currently in a tier where Mudsdale and Regirock are the default rockers, and seen on probably 80% of teams. Even if these aren't the rockers, Lurantis threatens Sandslash-Alola and Metang too, so essentially this means that it pressures 90% of team's rockers, and is able to get off a free defog. What separates Lurantis from other defoggers that threaten Mudsdale and Regirock is both its added benefit of offensive prowess, as well as its pseudo immunity to status via Aromatherapy. Aromatherapy allows Lurantis to stay healthy throughout the match from Toxic's aimed at it by Mudsdale and Regirock, meaning that Lurantis can do it's role the entire match and essentially make the opposing rocker useless. Aromatherapy even has the extra benefit of removing status from teammates, making Lurantis a semi-cleric as well. It can even act as an alright gurdurr answer with either the synthesis set or resttalk set. With all of this , you would think Lurantis deserves a rank somewhere in A! Though I would argue A-, I will settle for B+ right now. It does have flaws, such as being pressured by froslass, the best spiker in the tier. Oh, and it also gets pressured by Victreebel and Oricorio-Sensu, meaning you need teammates which reliably handles these so you don't get punished for clicking defog. These two things alone are a pretty large drawback for Lurantis. However, the simple fact that this thing can defog for free vs 90% of teams and also put on a large amount of offensive pressure is enough to see it in B+ above digimon like Pinsir and Dugtrio-Alola.

If you want replays just watch the snake week 1 replays because every Lurantis used had the sauce last week.

This message is sponsored by the Church of Lurantis Serene Grace
 
You know what we need to stop pretending?

Stall isn't crazy vaible

If You can build around the absolute biggest monster in the stall meta You will always have a fun soul shattering team mate

Audino....

That ain't clefairy good first off, that isn't part of a team comp that loses to combustion, aggron or any of that tier. B+ isn't bad, but it's pretty cheesy. Rotom frost/jynx isn't the face of a team that's reliable like audino.

If You want to beat it You need a mon with serious fighting coverage or chip it down(*gasp* trys to out stall stall) there is nothing with fighting coverage in this tier besides Lurantis that can beat the unaware mons it's always paired with and I hardcore believe in grass coverage in this tier.

Audino B+ to A, victreebel doesn't beat wish=> Silvally-P/bronzor commonly used on stall either if You wanna diss insane cores

Personally I think that mon is completely broken, creates an environment to easily counter build current meta threads in a way that forces You to only beat stall(then lose to banded soutland or whatever)

+2 252+ Atk Absol Black Hole Eclipse (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Mudsdale: 402-474 (99.5 - 117.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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hello everyone, lengthy post ahead with plenty of nominations that i feel are relevant especially now during snake:

:gurdurr: A+ > A
controversial nom i know, but gurdurr struggles to perform consistently well in current meta. it's highly predictable due to having only one viable set that is easily countered by top-tier mons like victreebel and pompom, the majority of special attackers can easily check it due to its poor special bulk and speed, and it recently faces a lot of competition from other fat and slow fighting-types like crabominable and throh that are less prepped for and often manage to put in more work, while a lot of mons it abuses like stout and regi get much less usage recently (for absolutely no good reason btw, these two are incredible). it's still a good fighting-type that can switch into a lot of physical attackers with ease, but it's just no longer on the same level as other a+ mons like stout, kanga, regi, vic, and pom-pom, all of which are much more difficult to take out or counter properly.

:lycanroc: A > A-
another case of a good mon that can often put in plenty of work yet really doesn't favor meta trends and is not on the same threat level as its a rank counterparts. with regi or muds being featured on 80% of teams, other prevalent mons like quagsire, tangela, and claydol not caring for its basic rock/ground coverage, and fighting-types like gurdurr only being threatened by niche psychium z sets, lycanroc simply fails to function as a threat in many matches. there's simply not enough reason to use this over superior rock-types like carracosta rn.

:ferroseed: A > B+
this mon is overrated fwiw. as a spikes setter it's outclassed by froslass and qwilfish which have a much better speed tier making them much less susceptible to taunt as well as superior utility options like taunt, will-o-wisp, scald, destiny bond etc and a better offensive presence. it's not great as a defensive wall either due to how easy grass/steel is to exploit defensively in the current meta. with fire- and fighting-type coverage being everywhere, the amount of top-tier mons it can actually switch into or try to set up on is incredibly little. oh yeah, and no recovery options whatsoever outside of leech seed. this is just very passive and underwhelming and is outclassed in almost all departments and i honestly don't see much of a reason to use it over superior mons, with role compression included in consideration.

:drampa: A- > A
hello consistent wallbreaker! this thing comes in and claims a kill every time unless you're forcing 50/50s with ghost+fairy cores like jelli+clef or running niche stuff like mr. mime. drampa can also take a beat. it also highly benefits from eel being so splashable as it can bring it in safely a lot of times and in general it just comes with very few drawbacks and is very easy to justify using.

:crabominable: B > B+
an uncommon and underappreciated mon that can run a variety of viable sets, has a very good mu against a variety of playstyles from bo to stall, and is really hard to switch into. aside from life orb being crucial on every good tr team and sets like band and av managing to put in plenty of work without tr, new sets like tlenit1's genius substitute set can be incredibly annoying to face (if you have yet to watch the xiri vs rexus match from week 3 of snake, go do it now). people should be using this more often.

:musharna: B- > B
fetus just keeps getting better and better, with dark-types like skunk being less common than ever it is now almost free to spam powerful future sights which can wear opposing teams down really fast. add an incredible immediate nuke in z-future sight, great bulk, reliable recovery, and healing wish and it's a gg. thanks to unuser gum for creating and popularizing this excellent set.

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Future Sight
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

:ursaring: C+ > B-
after it got nommed down a month ago i got interested in trying out ursaring again, devised a set with my good friend Sir Pin and built a team around it, and i can happily report this is genuinely good and worth using outside of trick room too. facade is still almost impossible to switch into and it notably cleanly ohkos eel which is really good rn as everyone struggles with it, unlike stout it's not choice-locked so it can't be taken advantage of in order to get free switches, and it's even good as an anti-lead as it can take advantage of common pivot leads like eel and ape by scouting with protect while crunch is super useful for lass. while its bulk isn't amazing, it wears itself down with burn recoil, and it can be revenge-killed fairly easily due to its medoicre speed tier, its sheer power more than makes up for it and this is seriously worth considering as a slow breaker on your team.

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

protect is super useful for scouting against choice-locked mons and setting up safely vs eel, speed investment allows it to outspeed uninvested tangela and jellicent.

:leavanny: D > UR
yeah send this sewage digimon back to where it came from. i see no merit in ranking it for being the faster webs setter when webs is a trash playstyle to begin with, that's the equivalent of ranking lapras on the basis of it being the bulkiest perish trapper, that's an irrelevant niche. it surely doesn't help that bug/grass is an awful defensive typing and that from an offensive standpoint there's absolutely no reason to use this over the superior leafeon. even if you're super adamant on using webs there's no reason to run it over shuckle which can do more than set up webs and die.

:dp/masquerain: UR > D
third time's the charm? :psyglad:

i won't go too much into detail as of why masquerain is good in general and why it should be considered using as a qd sweeper over a websetter, cute user tom holland has already explained it very thoroughly in his own nomination and the majority of points still stand to this day. however, i do want to pinpoint how recent meta trends are highly benefitting masq, and the first one is its ability to setup on extremely prevalent threats like victreebel and gurdurr as well as rising stars like lurantis and throh, it's capable of threatening our top rockers in muds and regi with even unboosted z-hydro pump, can take out defensive behemoths like eelektross and cryogonal with boosted z-bug buzz after very slight chip, some of its best checks like lycanroc and skuntank are seeing increasingly less usage, and it fits very well on voltturn teams which are super good rn. sure it still has its share of drawbacks; when it is being used lycanroc can easily get rid of it, pompom and sensu can still switch in for free, and being 4x weak to rocks will always be a big downside for it. however, its increased ease of setting up and good mu against prevalent eel-vic-muds cores allow it to function as an absolute wincon, now more often than ever. also if we're rising lurantis to b+ this has to be ranked too like cmon it's a really good counter.

i know it's hard to convince people that masq is actually good when it's often seen as low ladder scum, and that's why in addition to replays, top tier builder gum and i will supply you with the correct set as well as with viable teams so you can try it out and judge for yourself. incoming resources dump:

Masquerain @ Buginium Z / Waterium Z / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hydro Pump / Scald

timid allows masq to speed tie with scarf kabu at +1 and outspeed scarf dod at +2, modest has a higher chance of ohkoing regi and muds with unboosted z-hydro pump while generally dealing more damage which is always nice.

placeholder

:drampa::masquerain::eelektross::silvally::regirock::primeape: by moi

:masquerain::gurdurr::regirock::lanturn::skuntank::lurantis: by gum

:golem: :munchlax:C+/C- > UR?
this is less of a nomination and more of something that's worth a discussion imo. it's true that usage =/= viability, but i really can't recall seeing either of these used seriously in the past 9 months i've been playing pu. i don't have a strong opinion on either as i don't really know how they play but it's worth to see if they still have a meaningful niche in the meta or if they can go unranked.

thanks for giving this a read!
 
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hello everyone, lengthy post ahead with plenty of nominations that i feel are relevant especially now during snake:

:gurdurr: A+ > A
controversial nom i know, but gurdurr struggles to perform consistently well in current meta. it's highly predictable due to having only one viable set that is easily countered by top-tier mons like victreebel and pompom, the majority of special attackers can easily check it due to its poor special bulk and speed, and it recently faces a lot of competition from other fat and slow fighting-types like crabominable and throh that are less prepped for and often manage to put in more work, while a lot of mons it abuses like stout and regi get much less usage recently (for absolutely no good reason btw, these two are incredible). it's still a good fighting-type that can switch into a lot of physical attackers with ease, but it's just no longer on the same level as other a+ mons like stout, kanga, regi, vic, and pom-pom, all of which are much more difficult to take out or counter properly.

:lycanroc: A > A-
another case of a good mon that can often put in plenty of work yet really doesn't favor meta trends and is not on the same threat level as its a rank counterparts. with regi or muds being featured on 80% of teams, other prevalent mons like quagsire, tangela, and claydol not caring for its basic rock/ground coverage, and fighting-types like gurdurr only being threatened by niche psychium z sets, lycanroc simply fails to function as a threat in many matches. there's simply not enough reason to use this over superior rock-types like carracosta rn.

:ferroseed: A > B+
this mon is overrated fwiw. as a spikes setter it's outclassed by froslass and qwilfish which have a much better speed tier making them much less susceptible to taunt as well as superior utility options like taunt, will-o-wisp, scald, destiny bond etc and a better offensive presence. it's not great as a defensive wall either due to how easy grass/steel is to exploit defensively in the current meta. with fire- and fighting-type coverage being everywhere, the amount of top-tier mons it can actually switch into or try to set up on is incredibly little. oh yeah, and no recovery options whatsoever outside of leech seed. this is just very passive and underwhelming and is outclassed in almost all departments and i honestly don't see much of a reason to use it over superior mons, with role compression included in consideration.

:drampa: A- > A
hello consistent wallbreaker! this thing comes in and claims a kill every time unless you're forcing 50/50s with ghost+fairy cores like jelli+clef or running niche stuff like mr. mime. drampa can also take a beat. it also highly benefits from eel being so splashable as it can bring it in safely a lot of times and in general it just comes with very few drawbacks and is very easy to justify using.

:crabominable: B > B+
an uncommon and underappreciated mon that can run a variety of viable sets, has a very good mu against a variety of playstyles from bo to stall, and is really hard to switch into. aside from life orb being crucial on every good tr team and sets like band and av managing to put in plenty of work without tr, new sets like tlenit1's genius substitute set can be incredibly annoying to face (if you have yet to watch the xiri vs rexus match from week 3 of snake, go do it now). people should be using this more often.

:musharna: B- > B
fetus just keeps getting better and better, with dark-types like skunk being less common than ever it is now almost free to spam powerful future sights which can wear opposing teams down really fast. add an incredible immediate nuke in z-future sight, great bulk, reliable recovery, and healing wish and it's a gg. thanks to unuser gum for creating and popularizing this excellent set.

Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 28 SpD / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Future Sight
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish

:ursaring: C+ > B-
after it got nommed down a month ago i got interested in trying out ursaring again, devised a set with my good friend Sir Pin and built a team around it, and i can happily report this is genuinely good and worth using outside of trick room too. facade is still almost impossible to switch into and it notably cleanly ohkos eel which is really good rn as everyone struggles with it, unlike stout it's not choice-locked so it can't be taken advantage of in order to get free switches, and it's even good as an anti-lead as it can take advantage of common pivot leads like eel and ape by scouting with protect while crunch is super useful for lass. while its bulk isn't amazing, it wears itself down with burn recoil, and it can be revenge-killed fairly easily due to its medoicre speed tier, its sheer power more than makes up for it and this is seriously worth considering as a slow breaker on your team.

Ursaring @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Protect

protect is super useful for scouting against choice-locked mons and setting up safely vs eel, speed investment allows it to outspeed uninvested tangela and jellicent.

:leavanny: D > UR
yeah send this sewage digimon back to where it came from. i see no merit in ranking it for being the faster webs setter when webs is a trash playstyle to begin with, that's the equivalent of ranking lapras on the basis of it being the bulkiest perish trapper, that's an irrelevant niche. it surely doesn't help that bug/grass is an awful defensive typing and that from an offensive standpoint there's absolutely no reason to use this over the superior leafeon. even if you're super adamant on using webs there's no reason to run it over shuckle which can do more than set up webs and die.

:dp/masquerain: UR > D
third time's the charm? :psyglad:

i won't go too much into detail as of why masquerain is good in general and why it should be considered using as a qd sweeper over a websetter, cute user tom holland has already explained it very thoroughly in his own nomination and the majority of points still stand to this day. however, i do want to pinpoint how recent meta trends are highly benefitting masq, and the first one is its ability to setup on extremely prevalent threats like victreebel and gurdurr as well as rising stars like lurantis and throh, it's capable of threatening our top rockers in muds and regi with even unboosted z-hydro pump, can take out defensive behemoths like eelektross and cryogonal with boosted z-bug buzz after very slight chip, some of its best checks like lycanroc and skuntank are seeing increasingly less usage, and it fits very well on voltturn teams which are super good rn. sure it still has its share of drawbacks; when it is being used lycanroc can easily get rid of it, pompom and sensu can still switch in for free, and being 4x weak to rocks will always be a big downside for it. however, its increased ease of setting up and good mu against prevalent eel-vic-muds cores allow it to function as an absolute wincon, now more often than ever. also if we're rising lurantis to b+ this has to be ranked too like cmon it's a really good counter.

i know it's hard to convince people that masq is actually good when it's often seen as low ladder scum, and that's why in addition to replays, top tier builder gum and i will supply you with the correct set as well as with viable teams so you can try it out and judge for yourself. incoming resources dump:

Masquerain @ Buginium Z / Waterium Z / Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Hydro Pump / Scald

timid allows masq to speed tie with scarf kabu at +1 and outspeed scarf dod at +2, modest has a higher chance of ohkoing regi and muds with unboosted z-hydro pump while generally dealing more damage which is always nice.

placeholder

:drampa::masquerain::eelektross::silvally::regirock::primeape: by moi

:masquerain::gurdurr::regirock::lanturn::skuntank::lurantis: by gum

:golem: :munchlax:C+/C- > UR?
this is less of a nomination and more of something that's worth a discussion imo. it's true that usage =/= viability, but i really can't recall seeing either of these used seriously in the past 9 months i've been playing pu. i don't have a strong opinion on either as i don't really know how they play but it's worth to see if they still have a meaningful niche in the meta or if they can go unranked.

thanks for giving this a read!
First off, I definitely agree with Musharna rising to B. That thing is an absolute beast defensively and offensively, once it sets up. Heck, I think B+ is realistic even. Anyways, I will take this opportunity to propose one of my favorite sets.


Musharna @ Psychium Z
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam / Barrier
- Rest

This thing annihilates stall and defensive playstyles in general. Calm Mind is there for obvious reasons but I go with Stored Power over Psychic because it stacks base power when you set up CM. Stored Power, with a mere 20 BP initially, isn't going to be doing much of anything to anything. That is, until you use Z-Stored Power, a 160-Base Power nuke that packs an immediate punch without the need to set up. I go with Dazzling Gleam so you don't get shut down by the likes of Absol, Sableye, and Skuntank, but Barrier is an option to deal with Band Aggron and Stoutland (given that you already have a solid Dark-type check). Lastly, Rest is there to heal up. Anyways, once this thing sets up, there's no stopping it. Ferroseed, defensive AlolaSlash, and Metang think that they beat you, but in reality you beat them after a few boosts. Might I add, max Defense Mush is extremely bulky.

Now there are 2 noms I disagree with, the first being Ferroseed. The drop of Ferroseed brought back bad memories of the FerroClef and Ferro+Lanturn meta, even though the tier was so much different back then compared to now. Ferroseed provides immense utility to one's team including hazards and the ability to handle threats like AlolaSlash, Skuntank, Lycanroc, Mudsdale, Regirock, etc. The 4 Taunt users I can think of are Lycanroc, Froslass, Qwilfish, and Jellicent. Ferroseed beats Lycanroc and Froslass with Gyro Ball, so Taunt isn't really an issue in their case. Lanturn, a notable partner of Ferroseed, is able to check Jellicent and Qwilfish. Besides, I never really have issues with setting up hazards in the first place, due to how many switches Ferro forces. Dropping Ferro 2 sub-ranks to B+ seems ridiculous to me, but A- is not completely out of the question.

The other nom I disagree with is Gurdurr. Ice Punch is actually a viable substitute for Bulk Up, so that is a decent tech that is able to nail Victreebel and Pom-Pom. You mentioned Crab and Throh, both of whom lose equally as hard to Pom-Pom (although Crab can take it out on the switch in). Crab and Throh also lose to SD Victreebel (but not the Z-Leaf Storm set). Whoever said that Gurdurr performs inconsistently in the current meta, when stuff like AlolaSlash, Aurorus, Skuntank, Lycanroc, Ferroseed, Stoutland, and Primeape are constantly running around? Also, it isn't fair to say that Gurdurr should drop just because it gets countered by Vic and Pom-Pom. That's like saying Kanga should drop because it gets countered by Gurdurr and Regirock.

Lastly, I think Golem should stay ranked. In case you aren't sure what Golem does, Golem has Sturdy, which allows it to survive a hit from Aurorus and OHKO it back. Since Golem has Sturdy, it can get up rocks 99% of the time, unless it is taunted or something. Custap Berry is a very important item that enables it to be an effective suicide lead. Turn 1, you theoretically get knocked down to Sturdy, but you're able to get up rocks. Turn 2, Custap activates and you can explode in the opponent's face. Golem is also a decent check to fellow leads like Froslass and Regirock, and it is able to handle stuff like Skuntank, Pom-Pom, and even Eelektross, as Explosion is a clean OHKO after rocks. It's more than enough to keep it ranked.

Rises


Shiftry from C+ to B-

Shiftry is underrated. This thing is able to dismantle many cores with STAB Leaf Storm and Knock Off. Then you have Sucker Punch, which is able to pick off many faster mons once they're weakened. The surprise move is Explosion, an insanely poweful move that straight up OHKOs Eelektross, Victreebel, and even Audino after rocks. For real, Shiftry is a monster that most people don't expect or prepare for. It also checks Absol, which has been on the rise once Mush became popular.


Cameupt from C- to C+/C

I played against Camerupt a couple of times, and I was surprised at how well it performed. Defensive Camerupt is a reliable check to lots of ordinary hazard setters, namely Froslass, Regirock, AlolaSlash, Ferroseed, etc. Not only that but it can take on Victreebel and Eelektross, two very potent mons in the tier right now. Additionally, there's the Specs set, which has some nice wallbreaking potential. All in all, I think Camerupt fits quite nicely in the current meta.

Drops


Clefairy from B+ to B

It straight up gets abused by many top-tier mons including Taunt Froslass, Stoutland, AlolaSlash, Victreebel, Taunt Pom-Pom, Skuntank, and others. Clef is a huge momentum drain, also being setup fodder for sweepers like Musharna, Raichu-Alola, and Simisear. As a rocker, it is clearly outshined by Regirock and Mudsdale. It is overshadowed by Silvally-Fairy as a Fighting-check, since Gurdurr can easily knock off Clef's Eviolite, effectively neutralizing it. Clefairy simply isn't bulky enough to keep up with the tier that is chockfull of wallbreakers and sweepers right now.
 

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