USUM UU Viability Ranking Thread V3

[watermess]

Crobat is worth C+ and should stay there due to it's Taunt+Super Fang set. While we should never raise Crobat unless Loom comes back or something, I don't think we should drop it either, because nothing has changed against Crobat's favor.

tl;dr - keep Crobat in C+ and don't use defog bat plz its bad

Yeah I think with your reasoning this makes alot of sense, fast taunt seems extremely useful Vs all different builds and when combined with super fang and reliable recovery I can see a noteworthy niche

In summary:
I agree, crobat seems fine to sit where it is!

 

[justdrew]

Can we drop Zeraora to one of the C tiers?

My argument is simple, what does it do? If you look at the C's you'll find some semi-viable niche stall breakers and Pokemon that have legitimate, albeit less important, uses. But what do you even use Zeraora for? As a Volt-Turner it's outclassed by Mega Manectric by an immeasurable amount. It is walled by Mega Altaria, Amoonguss, Gligar and Hippowdon which is pretty much the entire meta. Then there's the slightly less popular Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron. Include the popular Pokemon who can switch in off a prediction and stomach a hit: Cobalion, Doublade, Rotom Heat, etc., there is so much for it. It has base 80 defensive stats so it isn't hard to RKO at all. It has 0 ability to break stall. I don't really know what this Pokemon does, accomplishes or outclasses. What does its ability do other than make Mega Manectric hesitate slightly before clicking a move. It is a waste of a slot and deserves to inhabit the shadow realm. This post is pointless because this Pokemon should be RU soon but while its here we may as well treat it as we did Arcanine and Forretress because it encompasses the same realm of utter garbage.

TL;DR
[01:36] +vivalospride 〠: oh
[01:36] +vivalospride 〠: pfft
[01:36] +vivalospride 〠: zera is
[01:36] +vivalospride 〠: NOT
[01:36] +vivalospride 〠: BETTER THAN ARAQ!!!!!

 

[Dumb Sir]

B+ -> A- / A

So, before I begin my rant about Gligar, I'd like to apologize for the disrespect I gave him in the past. Anyways, let's begin.

Gligar is a fundamental part of the metagame, being the glue for most Stall and Balanced builds. In the face of physically / mixed defensive monsters like Hippo, Quagsire, and Alomomola, Gligar sets itself apart with the coveted Defog. This one move may not seem like enough to raise Gligar past the aforementioned Pokemon in viability, but it does way more than one may think at first. Most hazard removers in the tier support a more offensive play style. To name a few examples: Rotom-Heat, Scarf Latias, and Defensive Scizor. Though, there exist hazard removers other than Gligar that do support a more defensive play style, those being Tentacruel, Florges, Mantine, Silvally, and Articuno. However, these Pokemon either A: still get chipped away at by spikes or B: are more niche and require a lot of team support. Not to mention, Gligar's typing and access to roost allows it to stonewall both Volt Switch and U-turn, as well as the common Earthquake. Though, like most Pokemon, it can't be played haphazardly lest it takes an HP Ice or one too many Choice Banded U-Turns or Overheats. It even possesses U-Turn itself, giving it the ability to act like a pivot.

TL;DR, Gligar is a fundamental glue for more defensive teams. As a wall, Gligar sets itself apart with it's access to Defog and numerous utility other options. As a hazard remover, Gligar sets itself apart with it's phenomenal typing that allows it to wall out common offensive cores and attacks along side Roost and U-Turn.

For these reasons and many more I don't want to go into detail with, Gligar should be moved back to A- or even put alongside other stall catalyst Blissey in A.

 

[prikshit]

B+ -> A- / A

So, before I begin my rant about Gligar, I'd like to apologize for the disrespect I gave him in the past. Anyways, let's begin.

Gligar is a fundamental part of the metagame, being the glue for most Stall and Balanced builds. In the face of physically / mixed defensive monsters like Hippo, Quagsire, and Alomomola, Gligar sets itself apart with the coveted Defog. This one move may not seem like enough to raise Gligar past the aforementioned Pokemon in viability, but it does way more than one may think at first. Most hazard removers in the tier support a more offensive play style. To name a few examples: Rotom-Heat, Scarf Latias, and Defensive Scizor. Though, there exist hazard removers other than Gligar that do support a more defensive play style, those being Tentacruel, Florges, Mantine, Silvally, and Articuno. However, these Pokemon either A: still get chipped away at by spikes or B: are more niche and require a lot of team support. Not to mention, Gligar's typing and access to roost allows it to stonewall both Volt Switch and U-turn, as well as the common Earthquake. Though, like most Pokemon, it can't be played haphazardly lest it takes an HP Ice or one too many Choice Banded U-Turns or Overheats. It even possesses U-Turn itself, giving it the ability to act like a pivot.

TL;DR, Gligar is a fundamental glue for more defensive teams. As a wall, Gligar sets itself apart with it's access to Defog and numerous utility other options. As a hazard remover, Gligar sets itself apart with it's phenomenal typing that allows it to wall out common offensive cores and attacks along side Roost and U-Turn.

For these reasons and many more I don't want to go into detail with, Gligar should be moved back to A- or even put alongside other stall catalyst Blissey in A.

No No No No No.... I Simply Must Refuse This.... Please.... Not This Trash....

Gligar Is a Pretend Pokemon, In The Way You Use It And Pretend You Actually Have A Good Pokemon On Your Team. You Have Ground Immunity Which Sounds Very Nice But Then You Lose To Every Ground Type In The Tier, You Mention Volt Switch Immunity But What Good Is This When Those Pokemon Still Beat Gligar Switching In Anyway? Who Is Switching This Thing Into Mega-Manectric, Rotom-Heat Etc... Also A Pokemon As Hideously Weak To Knock Off As This Mon Should Never Be Above B- As You Can't Even Pivot Into The Stuff You Want To Such As Krook Or Scizor. Trash Players Use It Thinking They Now Have A Protection Against Strong Boys Such As Donkey Terrakion And Scizor But Truthfully A Well Played Swords Dancing Variation Of Either Beats It... Totally Gutter Filth. Sewage Straight From The Sewer. Trash Straight From Garbage Can. An Unspeakably Overrated Pokemon.

Being A Passable Pick On One Team Style Does Not Sound Like A-/A To Me... Sorry My Brother....

 

[VCrakeV]

B+ -> A- / A

So, before I begin my rant about Gligar, I'd like to apologize for the disrespect I gave him in the past. Anyways, let's begin.

Gligar is a fundamental part of the metagame, being the glue for most Stall and Balanced builds. In the face of physically / mixed defensive monsters like Hippo, Quagsire, and Alomomola, Gligar sets itself apart with the coveted Defog. This one move may not seem like enough to raise Gligar past the aforementioned Pokemon in viability, but it does way more than one may think at first. Most hazard removers in the tier support a more offensive play style. To name a few examples: Rotom-Heat, Scarf Latias, and Defensive Scizor. Though, there exist hazard removers other than Gligar that do support a more defensive play style, those being Tentacruel, Florges, Mantine, Silvally, and Articuno. However, these Pokemon either A: still get chipped away at by spikes or B: are more niche and require a lot of team support. Not to mention, Gligar's typing and access to roost allows it to stonewall both Volt Switch and U-turn, as well as the common Earthquake. Though, like most Pokemon, it can't be played haphazardly lest it takes an HP Ice or one too many Choice Banded U-Turns or Overheats. It even possesses U-Turn itself, giving it the ability to act like a pivot.

TL;DR, Gligar is a fundamental glue for more defensive teams. As a wall, Gligar sets itself apart with it's access to Defog and numerous utility other options. As a hazard remover, Gligar sets itself apart with it's phenomenal typing that allows it to wall out common offensive cores and attacks along side Roost and U-Turn.

For these reasons and many more I don't want to go into detail with, Gligar should be moved back to A- or even put alongside other stall catalyst Blissey in A.

I think that Prikshit got things right (he should tone down on the caps though lol). I just wanted to point out that Scizor can fit on stall as a defogger as well. While it can't check some setters that Gligar can, it also has a great typing that provides it a toxic immunity. It can check stealth rock Mamoswine, which is pretty big for stall. It can also check LO psyshock + Draco Latias, which is also great for stall.

 

[SHEEPSQUAD]

I want to say Mew dropped from OU so what i want to say mew is a very splashable mon which can be defogger, rocker NP psychium z, and stallbreaker. Mew can break through stall with nasty plot, taunt. It is also not as weak to krok as lati is more frail and is usually puruit trapped or knocked off.

252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 242-288 (70.9 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 266-314 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

it also has defensive sets
252 Atk Choice Band burned Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 52 Def Mew: 115-136 (28.6 - 33.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 52 Def Mew: 231-273 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

if it gets a burn of it can check terrakion it can check it with psychic and roost

+2 252+ SpA Mew Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 402-474 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

it can also break through blissey and other def cores such as hippo with z psychic
252+ SpA Mew Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 276-325 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



It has also good stats with 100 base all around stats i think it deserves either A or A+
thats all i have too say hope this dosent get del

 

[Moutemoute]

I want to say Mew dropped from OU so what i want to say mew is a very splashable mon which can be defogger, rocker NP psychium z, and stallbreaker. Mew can break through stall with nasty plot, taunt. It is also not as weak to krok as lati is more frail and is usually puruit trapped or knocked off.

252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 242-288 (70.9 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 266-314 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

it also has defensive sets
252 Atk Choice Band burned Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 52 Def Mew: 115-136 (28.6 - 33.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 52 Def Mew: 231-273 (57.6 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

if it gets a burn of it can check terrakion it can check it with psychic and roost

+2 252+ SpA Mew Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 402-474 (56.3 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

it can also break through blissey and other def cores such as hippo with z psychic
252+ SpA Mew Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 276-325 (65.7 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



It has also good stats with 100 base all around stats i think it deserves either A or A+
thats all i have too say hope this dosent get del

I don't want to be harsh but it makes no sense to nominate a Pokemon 1 day after he droped because you don't know how it will impact the tier.

 

[Cuddly]

Hoopa to C
Ok hear me out, I believe that Hoopa is the best stallbreaker in the tier. SpDef Pyukumuku cannot handle a Ghostium Hoopa and is forced to click a Recover in order to not risk taking major damage from Never Ending Nightmare and then being taken out by a Shadow Ball next turn. Pyukumuku relies on spiting the Hoopa which can just as easily switch out thanks to its Substitute protecting it from anything else. Other than that, Hoopa will almost always fuck over Stall once it places itself behind that Substitute and would need to be Pursuit trapped by Mega Aerodactyl out of it in order to be beaten. It’s not an easy Pokemon to build around and is matchup dependent but with how Stall has only shown to be a dominating playstyle, Hoopa is an extremely rare gem that can bust right through it.

Agreed. Hoopa-C is super underrated and I have been finding success with it priority abusers like Scizor, Mamo, and Lucario, especially since they can lure in Rotom-Heat, they beat the common anti-sticky webs Pokemon. I also want to mention that Hoopa is, ironically, pretty decent against most pursuit trappers too. Yes. Obviously, Hoopa-C will never take a Pursuit that isn’t from a hacked Shuckle. And yes, Hoopa can’t beat most of them 1 on 1. However, if you Sub (or not in some cases) on the Switch, which is easy to do thanks to its high SpD and neutral/resistance to common passive Pokemon, Hoopa can beat them or do enough damage to clean them up.
252+ SpA Hoopa Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Aerodactyl: 204-240 (67.7 - 79.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Hoopa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 304-358 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ SpA Hoopa All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 266-314 (75.5 - 89.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
So it can also be a lure itself.

But speaking of some similar Pokemon

Decidueye C -> C-/UR
This may be extremely controversial, which is why I think it should still be -C are least, but I honestly have no clue to why Decidueye is even considered viable. It especially will be less viable when Mew is currently usable, which is a Pokemon Hoopa preys on and something Decidueye will be burnt by.
Sure, Decidueye resisting Ground and Water is cool, and on the physical side, it can survive longer than Hoopa, but what good is that if you are so reliant on your OC DonutSteel Z-move for any immediate damage against anything neutral to its coverage. 107 Atk is extremely mediocre, especially with only Leaf Blade and Spirit Shackle, which gets easily walled by several top tier threats and key Pokemon, such as Hydreigon, Mega Aggron, Mega Altaria, Scizor, Amoongus, Alolan Muk, Rotom-Heat, Moltres (not even with Stealth Rocks up if it isn't feeling lucky), and more, with many Pokemon that Hoopa doesn't mind thanks to the Fighting/Ghost moves with its amazing 150 SpA.
And Realistically, what does those resistances do for Decidueye?
Switch into bulky water's scalds?
Hoopa-C does just the same and doesn't fear having its Atk cut in half.
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Decidueye: 21-26 (6.8 - 8.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hoopa: 34-42 (11.2 - 13.9%) -- possible 8HKO
And it can hit back pretty hard, sometimes hard like with Empoleon and Jellicent.
Tank those Earthquake?
Almost everything that would hit it with Earthquake can easily just use one of their coverage moves anyways, which Decidueye won't tank due its middling bulk on both sides, and its not like Hoopa was going to tank/switch into those attackers anyways. The only exception being Scarf Krook, Hippodown and Defensive Swampert, the latter of which also can burn Decidueye.
It can't beat the Electric types like Manectric or Rotom as they have Overheat, something Hoopa actually likes taking as it lets it set up subs easily.

Decidueye also gets bodied heavily by nearly every Anti-Sticky Web Pokemon in the tier, most of which is thanks to its Grass typing.
Early every Flying type destroys Decidueye while it typically can't do jack shit back to them.
The most common Levitators that isn't Latias can safely switch into it all day, and even Latias can drop a Draco Meteor on it.
It can do absolutely nothing to Bisharp or Stakataka.
It threatens out so little amount of hazard removers, and the ones it does, Hoopa does it better.
And even if Decidueye wasn't facing problems with these Pokemon, Hoopa is still preferable on Sticky Web teams (which are highly underrated) due to that immediate power.

And lastly, Decidueye is very restricted on moves, while Hoopa has tons of great options and let it deal with the select few Pokemon that Decidueye otherwise has a better time breaking (which is so few, and make little difference), such as Grass Knot or Thunderbolt.

There are very few upsides to Decidueye that I can think of that are not immediately outclassed by any other Pokemon in the tier, not just Hoopa. It should honestly be Unranked, but I know some people will be opposed to that, so I will compromise with a C- ranking.

 

[QY_CS]

Mew -> S
Great all around stats movepool diverse roles it can fit blah blah blah. Cant be bothered to explain

I am gonna add some thoughts on gligar. gligar teams tend to have a significantly stronger matchup against webs teams and spikes teams due to being able to do emergency defogs against a lot of pressuring foes. i think it is good at where it is

 

[Lin]

Can y'all chill with Mew nominations lol. The mon literally dropped 2 days ago and we have like 0 info on how it will affect the metagame. Maybe it will be way too broken for tier to handle it and get banned?

 

[Katy]

Hey all,

I agree with Moutemoute and Perish Song, Mew just dropped 2 days ago and it is definetly too early to say how it will impact the metagame, if it will stay or not (depends on what the council decides) and if it will get quickbanned and later on restesed. It is just too early to say smth about Mew, even tho in the NP Thread of the Weather (Drizzle & Drought suspect) there are possible good sets for Mew to use in the teambuilding process.
I think we should give Mew at least 1 and half or 2 weeks time in the tier to consider a rank in the viability thread.

now to a nom i disagree with:


Keep C
I think Deciduye shouldnt drop, because it can still reliably threaten one of the best Stealth Rock setters in ther tier Krookodile with its Grass-type STAB, similiar it can switch into Water-types and threaten them out with a strong Leaf Blade or is able to set-up on them with its Swords Dance.
Sure it finds itself in a very awkward spot in the UU-tier but it has its unique but desireable traits, it can also help against offense with its SD + Z Move set and the Z-Move itself is a pretty powerful one, which can threaten a multitude of good mons the UU-tier currently.
Similiar ability goes to its stallbreaking potential, since stall is very good at the UU-tier right now, Deciduye finds itself still in a useable place, since it can sub on most of the stallers and threaten them with its Leaf Blade or its typing alone. It can help vs. Blissey, Alomamola, Quagsire and its Z-Move can do realiable damage on Mega-Altaria.
Deciduye really should not get Unranked, since of the few but good factors it offers to be considered on teams as a niche and unique option.

 

[Smallsmallrose]

Keep C
I don't think Decidueye should be unranked, or even dropped for that matter. It's niche is in the meta is small, and somewhat comparable to the likes of Celebi and it's fellow substitute ghosts, but what Decidueye has over them has value in this meta. For one, it doesn't have to change it's moveset just to deal with double unaware cores. Celebi has to drop giga drain for a stronger grass STAB or run metronome if it wants any chance in hell of muscling through Specially Defensive Pyukumuku. This same Pyukumuku set also completely stonewalls Hoopa if it whiffs it's Z-move. Decidueye can just do what it normally does and still beat this core. In fact, it's probably the best ghost for dealing with Spdef Pyuku in general, as Hoopa needs to play unrealistically smart with it's Z-move if it wants a fighting chance, or switch to taunt (Thus losing sub and a lot of sub's utility.) And Chandy has to switch to taunt if it wants to still reliably handle spdef Pyuk, which is just sad. Decidueye is the only ghost that can run sub for offensive matchups and counteracting pursuit while still reliably breaking stall. Speaking of, it's pursuit weakness isn't as big as other ghosts either. It battles Muk much more efficiently than the others, as a +2 Z-move will pretty much always murder the garbage pile, where as even Hoopa's +2 Z Focus Blast can easily be lived from good health. It's also the only ghost that can actually 1v1 Krook without being behind a sub. Knock is a roll to KO from full, where as it completely murders similar ghosts with dark STAB or EQ. It can also live a non-switching pursuit arguably the easiest of the ghosts, letting it punish Krook for whiffs. It also withstands Aero, another common pursuit trapper, with much greater ease than the other Ghosts, who all get OHKOed whereas Decidueye can comfortably live everything barring the rare wing attack and a roll from Ice Fang (That's in Decidueye's favor btw) after rocks. Not to mention that Decidueye can pretty much beat any pursuit trapper if it's given a sub, even better than the other ghosts (As their sub variants still struggle to brawl with Muk) The only pursuit user I'd argue that the other ghosts take on better than Decidueye is Assault vest Bisharp, who Decidueye struggles to KO with it's bulk investment while the other ghosts can all blow it up comfortably if they play around sucker punch. Decidueye also has small perks over Celebi, the other pokemon I compared it to. For one, Latias can't handle Decidueye as well as it handles Celebi, as spirit shackle is far more threatening to it than Celebi's dazzling gleam. It also handles Scizor better to a degree. While it can't handle a bullet punch from full as well as Celebi, it's +2 STAB Z-move will KO even the bulkiest variants of the UU King without any of the chip Celebi needs to do the same. Decidueye also nabs other OHKOs that allude Celebi, such as a more reliable OHKO on Specs Primarina. It also handles miscellaneous specially defensive pokemon better, such as Spdef Pyuk, the whole gang of spdef steels, Muk, and it can get much more aggressive with Blissey. Overall, Decidueye is very mediocre, sure, but so is every pokemon in it's rank. When talking about niche pokemon like Decidueye, you need to look at not what it does poorly, but rather what it does over similar picks. Decidueye brings something to the table that the other ghosts and fellow Grass breaker Celebi doesn't, and this justifies it's place over those pokemon. Decidueye is very Hydra weak, which isn't great, and it can struggle with physical walls without it's Z-move, which also isn't great. Low speed and it's various weaknesses are also hardships. But it has a few good traits too. It battles with pursuit better overall than it's fellow ghosts and can doesn't need to change it's gameplan in a meta of constantly adapting stall that constantly invalidates even the best of the best stallbreakers. It can also hit a few cute things that Celebi doesn't and doesn't need to warp it's moveset around Spdef Pyuk like Celebi needs to do to be reliable now. Decidueye is niche, but it's small niche is a valuable one in the current meta.

 

[ehT]

This is gonna be a quickie, but please keep Azelf and Xatu where they are. Screens doesn't get much tour play or anything (to my recollection) but that shit still slaps, and at the end of the day I think Azelf is the better mon. 115 Speed + Taunt just feels better for aggressive teams in my experience. Xatu is still a hella valid pick though. That's just my two cents.

 

[solonor24]

Mega Aerodactyl at A+ is an absolute joke. By no means am I suggesting it is a bad Pokemon although it is severely overrated. For starters, tough claws could not be a more useless ability on it as its core moves will not be boosted by it (unless u count the whole 12 points to power it gives to pursuit or using aqua tail.) It suffers from severe 4 move slot syndrome and cannot switch into many of the common Pokemon in this tier.

Speaking of common Pokemon, i have noticed a trend that it really struggles with almost all of them. It's attack stat looks great until you realize that it doesn't OHKO many of the things it's supposed to check such as Manectric after intimidate or Terrakion. It also loses to almost all stealth rockers (swampert, rhyperior, even krook to a degree), scarfers, steels, and bulky waters (Alomomola, Primarina, Slowbro etc). And lets not even talk about Scizor being on 50% of teams here so Aerodactyl becomes practically irrelevant half of the time. If you see stall being used, good luck getting Aerodactyl to do anything special unless your playing kickassin666.

This doesn't negate that it still has a decent matchup against opposing offense although I always find myself restricted when using this Pokemon even in this sense. You are required to chip everything or else it can be easily switched into by many of the things mentioned above.

Overall, Aerodactyl should be an A or A- pokemon in my books as many of the pokemon ranked below it do their job more reliably than it ever can.

 

[prikshit]

Mega Aerodactyl at A+ is an absolute joke. By no means am I suggesting it is a bad Pokemon although it is severely overrated. For starters, tough claws could not be a more useless ability on it as its core moves will not be boosted by it (unless u count the whole 12 points to power it gives to pursuit or using aqua tail.) It suffers from severe 4 move slot syndrome and cannot switch into many of the common Pokemon in this tier.

Speaking of common Pokemon, i have noticed a trend that it really struggles with almost all of them. It's attack stat looks great until you realize that it doesn't OHKO many of the things it's supposed to check such as Manectric after intimidate or Terrakion. It also loses to almost all stealth rockers (swampert, rhyperior, even krook to a degree), scarfers, steels, and bulky waters (Alomomola, Primarina, Slowbro etc). And lets not even talk about Scizor being on 50% of teams here so Aerodactyl becomes practically irrelevant half of the time. If you see stall being used, good luck getting Aerodactyl to do anything special unless your playing kickassin666.

This doesn't negate that it still has a decent matchup against opposing offense although I always find myself restricted when using this Pokemon even in this sense. You are required to chip everything or else it can be easily switched into by many of the things mentioned above.

Overall, Aerodactyl should be an A or A- pokemon in my books as many of the pokemon ranked below it do their job more reliably than it ever can.

This Is What I Like To See... My Brother Has The Right Idea Which I May Say I Have Claimed Since The Start https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...-new-dress-mimikyu-test.3652404/#post-8189436

Yes This Pokemon Is Fast As Heck And Also Has Good Coverage Options... But This Is Where The Goodness Stops. It Is Simply Potato Pokemon!! My Learned Friend Has Raised Most Of The Points I Have Felt For A Long Time. There Is No Way This Mon Gets Past Any Pokemon With Any Semblance Of Physical Tankiness (Except For Gligar If This Has Ice Fang But This Just Further Proves How Sewage Gligar Is!!). The Other Premier Physical Attackers In This Tier Have At Least Some Way Of Busting Past Some Of Their Checks And Walls - See Dancing Donkey Terrakion, Dancing Scizor, Etc. So Then You Must Think This Mon Is Good Against Offence Teams Which It May Be But It Fails To One Shot Things Which It Really Wishes It Could. Throw In Fact That This Mon Has Absolutely Gutter Filth Of Flying Type Attacks In A Tier Where Flying Type Attacks Are Pretty Great And It Is Just Simply Not Up To The Par. Further, It Is Weak To Rocks, Filthy Defensive Typing And Stats And Weakness To Priority Coming From Number One Mon In This Tier... Hmm

This Sewage Boy In A+ Is An Insult To All Of The Other Pokemon In That Tier. Take This, Cobalion, Gligar And Empoleon And Send Them First Class Post With No Return Postage To Lower Down The Viability Rankings Or Even To RarelyUsed. Save A+ For The Other 4 Boys That Really Deserve It

 

[scorbunnys]

Hi, how are you, I hope well, today I bring you my verdict on the changes of smogon and users and my nominations, I hope you like it.
Council Noms

[A- -> A+ / S] [Agree] - Mimikyu is undoubtedly one of the best options in Hyper offense since it has a typing which allows it to be one of the best Under Used spinblockers, apart from that thanks to disguise you can allow to put a free SD, which makes metagame a lot of pressure on the rival team, I really only talk about HO, because it stands out in stall, puts pressure on wallbreakers and that, it really deserves to go up to A +, and it seems worthy of S if the metagame is still nice to him.

[A- -> B+] [Agree] - I really do not think I should explain much why Moltres deserves to go down, basically it is an attempt to counter Amoonguss, but having a weakness to rocks, spore + sludge bomb + SR is enough for amoonguss to weaken Moltres, Infernape is better, because no It is weak to rocks and can change to rocks, but not moltres, the truth is very bad, do you want an earth-immune mon that stops Amoonguss? Then choose Hydreigon, some fire ?, Infernape, has very few niches the truth and I see it falling very low, until B-

[B+ -> A-] [Agree] - Now that the archetypal stall is even more common, Aggron can shine, as Aggron provides a Filter (which gives it a great niche on Steelix), apart from having a better showdown against Celebi, Feraligatr DD, Altaria-Mega TQuake, etc. ... and I think it deserves to go up for these reasons and apart for being a better Mamoswine check, up to A-

[B+ -> B] [Disagree] - I don't think it deserves to go down imo, it has defog, screens with priority, etc. .. besides it has the best typing of pokemon, it is immune to toxic and it can be a very good support, that it stays in B +.

[B -> B+] [Agree] - The truth is that Nidoqueen has long deserved to climb, Nidoqueen Modest is just as powerful (and more bulky) than Nidoking Timid, currently Nidoqueen has a better niche because HO is more common and Nidoqueen can withstand two Mimikyu rough play at +2 being 252 hp, I don't think it deserves to stay, Nidoqueen until B+

View attachment 201341[B- -> B] [Agree] - The same logic that I used with Aggron-Mega, now that stall is more common, Quagsire manages to stand out as an anti-boosters, which makes Quagsire a very good mon, it also has a decent showdown vs Latias Z-Electric and Physical Attackers , thus managing to stop several common pokemon, for me it deserves to go to B, for all this I said.

View attachment 201342 [C+ -> UR] [Agree] - I'm going to ask you a question, what real niche does Crobat have? Do you want something that stops fairies and stall, choose Scizor, something that puts toxic spikes, here until Mareanie or Weezing are better, pokemon type flying ?, Well, choose togekiss or Latias, since it has levitate, there are few reasons to want to use bat, which goes down to Unranked.

View attachment 201343 [UR -> C+] [Agree] - Its niche is more than obvious, being a wallbreaker under sand, it takes advantage of Hippowdon's sand more than good, it can weaken Blissey of 1 Return with band, it makes 2HKO to Aggron-Mega with SPower CB and basically well played, it becomes a excellent wallbreaker, I would say that C- or C is too small, since this mon is possibly more than just a niche, since it can be scary if used well

[Drop Azelf and Raise Xatu] - Let's start with Azelf, I say lower it, because being a pony-with-a-single-trick, which makes it very easy to stop it (I don't want to say it's bad), but really this mon at all know what set has I think it deserves to go down to C +
Xatu must go up, because he has a better potential as a dual screener than Azelf, he also has the flying type, which means he can be immune to TQuake Altaria Mega or Steelix Mega, besides he can avoid being a victim of the famous taunt, he must go up to C +
PD: Both must be in C + personally.


Other Noms:

[A -> S] [Agree] - Blissey is one of those mons who force you to take something to stop them, your physical attacker has to be very powerful see: Cobalion SD or Stoutland Band with sand, forces Latias to carry Psyshock and since you have none of this, Blissey is a case lost, apart from even worse, stall is still more common than it already was because Pyukumuku and Alomomola have more use, for me it must be S rank, because it centralizes a lot and sometimes forces you to carry things that your team doesn't need.

[C- -> C] [Agree] - If I am sincere, this thing deserves to go up, since balance is quite good and this thing finds a small niche there, that is, it has its setbacks like having a weakness for four to stealth rocks, which can be a problem, but this mon well played is good, since it has a typing which makes it immune to Steelix-Mega Earthquake, Swampert Earthquake and most of the ground type, deserves to climb because if I'm honest, I would say that minimum is C +, but for now let's leave it in C.

[B -> B+] [Agree] - There really is not much to say, it has a good niche in hyper offense, so it works well with mimikyu, apart from that it is a good spinblocker in the tier, which makes it difficult to avoid spikes, although it is not More metagame, I think it deserves to go up to B + for these reasons.

My own nomination:

[B -> B+/ A-] - Well, these two mons are very good, they have a large bulk and that, Florges has reliable recovery and Sylveon has greater hp and defense, both are the best defensive fairies in my opinion, deserve to climb because apart offense is common and they cure mons Common as Scizor and Empoleon, they deserve to go up to B + or A-

[C -> B-] -
The same logic of sylveon and florges, is very good as a healer and has on top a guy who allows him to be a good cleric and for psychics, really nothing more to say, even B-.
see you later.

 

[SacredLatias]

YK, its been a while since I've posted here. I'll keep it short and sweet, dw.

[B+->A-] Rhyperior is consistently a good option on teams that want to keep up pressure, even with their bulkier mons. Great defenses, amazing attack stat of 140, and stab edge quake allow it to set itself apart as an offensive option for a ground type on bulky offense and balance teams. While often ridiculed because of its type, in the UU meta its typing allows it to thrive. Being an excellent check to Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Mane, and Moltres are all great traits to have in the current meta, and it has the ability to heavily punish other bulky mons like Mega Aggron and Empoleon for a bad switch in, being able to 3HKO and OHKO respectively. All in all, Rhyperior is a great offensive option for teams that need a good mix of offensive power and defensive utility.

 

[SacredLatias]

Hi, how are you, I hope well, today I bring you my verdict on the changes of smogon and users and my nominations, I hope you like it.
Council Noms
View attachment 201547[A- -> A+ / S] [Agree] - Mimikyu is undoubtedly one of the best options in Hyper offense since it has a typing which allows it to be one of the best Under Used spinblockers, apart from that thanks to disguise you can allow to put a free SD, which makes metagame a lot of pressure on the rival team, I really only talk about HO, because it stands out in stall, puts pressure on wallbreakers and that, it really deserves to go up to A +, and it seems worthy of S if the metagame is still nice to him.

[A- -> B-] [Agree] - I really do not think I should explain much why Moltres deserves to go down, basically it is an attempt to counter Amoonguss, but having a weakness to rocks, spore + sludge bomb + SR is enough for amoonguss to weaken Moltres, Infernape is better, because no It is weak to rocks and can change to rocks, but not moltres, the truth is very bad, do you want an earth-immune mon that stops Amoonguss? Then choose Hydreigon, some fire ?, Infernape, has very few niches the truth and I see it falling very low, until B-

View attachment 201548 [B+ -> A-] [Agree] - Now that the archetypal stall is even more common, Aggron can shine, as Aggron provides a Filter (which gives it a great niche on Steelix), apart from having a better showdown against Celebi, Feraligatr DD, Altaria-Mega TQuake, etc. ... and I think it deserves to go up for these reasons and apart for being a better Mamoswine check, up to A-

View attachment 201549 [B+ -> B] [Disagree] - I don't think it deserves to go down imo, it has defog, screens with priority, etc. .. besides it has the best typing of pokemon, it is immune to toxic and it can be a very good support, that it stays in B +.

View attachment 201550 [B -> B+] [Agree] - The truth is that Nidoqueen has long deserved to climb, Nidoqueen Modest is just as powerful (and more bulky) than Nidoking Timid, currently Nidoqueen has a better niche because HO is more common and Nidoqueen can withstand two Mimikyu rough play at +2 being 252 hp, I don't think it deserves to stay, Nidoqueen until B+

View attachment 201341[B- -> B] [Agree] - The same logic that I used with Aggron-Mega, now that stall is more common, Quagsire manages to stand out as an anti-boosters, which makes Quagsire a very good mon, it also has a decent showdown vs Latias Z-Electric and Physical Attackers , thus managing to stop several common pokemon, for me it deserves to go to B, for all this I said.

View attachment 201342 [C+ -> UR] [Agree] - I'm going to ask you a question, what real niche does Crobat have? Do you want something that stops fairies and stall, choose Scizor, something that puts toxic spikes, here until Mareanie or Weezing are better, pokemon type flying ?, Well, choose togekiss or Latias, since it has levitate, there are few reasons to want to use bat, which goes down to Unranked.

View attachment 201343 [UR -> C+] [Agree] - Its niche is more than obvious, being a wallbreaker under sand, it takes advantage of Hippowdon's sand more than good, it can weaken Blissey of 1 Return with band, it makes 2HKO to Aggron-Mega with SPower CB and basically well played, it becomes a excellent wallbreaker, I would say that C- or C is too small, since this mon is possibly more than just a niche, since it can be scary if used well

View attachment 201551View attachment 201552[Drop Azelf and Raise Xatu] - Let's start with Azelf, I say lower it, because being a pony-with-a-single-trick, which makes it very easy to stop it (I don't want to say it's bad), but really this mon at all know what set has I think it deserves to go down to C +
Xatu must go up, because he has a better potential as a dual screener than Azelf, he also has the flying type, which means he can be immune to TQuake Altaria Mega or Steelix Mega, besides he can avoid being a victim of the famous taunt, he must go up to C +
PD: Both must be in C + personally.


Other Noms:
View attachment 201560[A -> S] [Agree] - Blissey is one of those mons who force you to take something to stop them, your physical attacker has to be very powerful see: Cobalion SD or Stoutland Band with sand, forces Latias to carry Psyshock and since you have none of this, Blissey is a case lost, apart from even worse, stall is still more common than it already was because Pyukumuku and Alomomola have more use, for me it must be S rank, because it centralizes a lot and sometimes forces you to carry things that your team doesn't need.

View attachment 201561[C- -> C] [Agree] - If I am sincere, this thing deserves to go up, since balance is quite good and this thing finds a small niche there, that is, it has its setbacks like having a weakness for four to stealth rocks, which can be a problem, but this mon well played is good, since it has a typing which makes it immune to Steelix-Mega Earthquake, Swampert Earthquake and most of the ground type, deserves to climb because if I'm honest, I would say that minimum is C +, but for now let's leave it in C.

View attachment 201562[B -> B+] [Agree] - There really is not much to say, it has a good niche in hyper offense, so it works well with mimikyu, apart from that it is a good spinblocker in the tier, which makes it difficult to avoid spikes, although it is not More metagame, I think it deserves to go up to B + for these reasons.

My own nomination:
View attachment 201554View attachment 201556 [B -> B+/ A-] - Well, these two mons are very good, they have a large bulk and that, Florges has reliable recovery and Sylveon has greater hp and defense, both are the best defensive fairies in my opinion, deserve to climb because apart offense is common and they cure mons Common as Scizor and Empoleon, they deserve to go up to B + or A-

View attachment 201563 [C -> B-] -
The same logic of sylveon and florges, is very good as a healer and has on top a guy who allows him to be a good cleric and for psychics, really nothing more to say, even B-.
see you later.

I'll keep this short and sweet, just pointing a few things out.

Moltres A- -> B-: LMAO ofc not.
Moltres is the tiers most solid answer to scizor, being able to consistently wall every set excluding SD quick attack, but even SD QA doesnt want to stay in as it could fail to 2HKO bc of Flame Body. That niche alone is amazing, not to mention its other good matchups. Fly z is an amazing nuke, and bulky rocky helmet is able to check offense pretty well. With rocks, while they are an issue, they arent the end all be all. It has a good niche, and A- is representative of its niche at this moment.

Mimikyu A- -> A+/S: No.
Mimikyu, while good on spike stack offenses, is pretty underwhelming because bulky checks like Mega Steelix and Moltres largely shrug off Mimi-z even after a boost, and they can both threaten it (mega lix with an OHKO, molt with a flame body burn.) It is not on the level of say latias or scizor.

 

[Sage]

Hey all there has been an influx of low effort posts, try to take your time and contribute to the discussion rather than writing one line and quoting someone else's post. Update ft. Mew and goons will be dropping soon!

 

[OneSmogonCopyer]

Hi, how are you, I hope well, today I bring you my verdict on the changes of smogon and users and my nominations, I hope you like it.
Council Noms
View attachment 201547[A- -> A+ / S] [Agree] - Mimikyu is undoubtedly one of the best options in Hyper offense since it has a typing which allows it to be one of the best Under Used spinblockers, apart from that thanks to disguise you can allow to put a free SD, which makes metagame a lot of pressure on the rival team, I really only talk about HO, because it stands out in stall, puts pressure on wallbreakers and that, it really deserves to go up to A +, and it seems worthy of S if the metagame is still nice to him.

[A- -> B+] [Agree] - I really do not think I should explain much why Moltres deserves to go down, basically it is an attempt to counter Amoonguss, but having a weakness to rocks, spore + sludge bomb + SR is enough for amoonguss to weaken Moltres, Infernape is better, because no It is weak to rocks and can change to rocks, but not moltres, the truth is very bad, do you want an earth-immune mon that stops Amoonguss? Then choose Hydreigon, some fire ?, Infernape, has very few niches the truth and I see it falling very low, until B-

View attachment 201548 [B+ -> A-] [Agree] - Now that the archetypal stall is even more common, Aggron can shine, as Aggron provides a Filter (which gives it a great niche on Steelix), apart from having a better showdown against Celebi, Feraligatr DD, Altaria-Mega TQuake, etc. ... and I think it deserves to go up for these reasons and apart for being a better Mamoswine check, up to A-

View attachment 201549 [B+ -> B] [Disagree] - I don't think it deserves to go down imo, it has defog, screens with priority, etc. .. besides it has the best typing of pokemon, it is immune to toxic and it can be a very good support, that it stays in B +.

View attachment 201550 [B -> B+] [Agree] - The truth is that Nidoqueen has long deserved to climb, Nidoqueen Modest is just as powerful (and more bulky) than Nidoking Timid, currently Nidoqueen has a better niche because HO is more common and Nidoqueen can withstand two Mimikyu rough play at +2 being 252 hp, I don't think it deserves to stay, Nidoqueen until B+

View attachment 201341[B- -> B] [Agree] - The same logic that I used with Aggron-Mega, now that stall is more common, Quagsire manages to stand out as an anti-boosters, which makes Quagsire a very good mon, it also has a decent showdown vs Latias Z-Electric and Physical Attackers , thus managing to stop several common pokemon, for me it deserves to go to B, for all this I said.

View attachment 201342 [C+ -> UR] [Agree] - I'm going to ask you a question, what real niche does Crobat have? Do you want something that stops fairies and stall, choose Scizor, something that puts toxic spikes, here until Mareanie or Weezing are better, pokemon type flying ?, Well, choose togekiss or Latias, since it has levitate, there are few reasons to want to use bat, which goes down to Unranked.

View attachment 201343 [UR -> C+] [Agree] - Its niche is more than obvious, being a wallbreaker under sand, it takes advantage of Hippowdon's sand more than good, it can weaken Blissey of 1 Return with band, it makes 2HKO to Aggron-Mega with SPower CB and basically well played, it becomes a excellent wallbreaker, I would say that C- or C is too small, since this mon is possibly more than just a niche, since it can be scary if used well

View attachment 201551View attachment 201552[Drop Azelf and Raise Xatu] - Let's start with Azelf, I say lower it, because being a pony-with-a-single-trick, which makes it very easy to stop it (I don't want to say it's bad), but really this mon at all know what set has I think it deserves to go down to C +
Xatu must go up, because he has a better potential as a dual screener than Azelf, he also has the flying type, which means he can be immune to TQuake Altaria Mega or Steelix Mega, besides he can avoid being a victim of the famous taunt, he must go up to C +
PD: Both must be in C + personally.


Other Noms:
View attachment 201560[A -> S] [Agree] - Blissey is one of those mons who force you to take something to stop them, your physical attacker has to be very powerful see: Cobalion SD or Stoutland Band with sand, forces Latias to carry Psyshock and since you have none of this, Blissey is a case lost, apart from even worse, stall is still more common than it already was because Pyukumuku and Alomomola have more use, for me it must be S rank, because it centralizes a lot and sometimes forces you to carry things that your team doesn't need.

View attachment 201561[C- -> C] [Agree] - If I am sincere, this thing deserves to go up, since balance is quite good and this thing finds a small niche there, that is, it has its setbacks like having a weakness for four to stealth rocks, which can be a problem, but this mon well played is good, since it has a typing which makes it immune to Steelix-Mega Earthquake, Swampert Earthquake and most of the ground type, deserves to climb because if I'm honest, I would say that minimum is C +, but for now let's leave it in C.

View attachment 201562[B -> B+] [Agree] - There really is not much to say, it has a good niche in hyper offense, so it works well with mimikyu, apart from that it is a good spinblocker in the tier, which makes it difficult to avoid spikes, although it is not More metagame, I think it deserves to go up to B + for these reasons.

My own nomination:
View attachment 201554View attachment 201556 [B -> B+/ A-] - Well, these two mons are very good, they have a large bulk and that, Florges has reliable recovery and Sylveon has greater hp and defense, both are the best defensive fairies in my opinion, deserve to climb because apart offense is common and they cure mons Common as Scizor and Empoleon, they deserve to go up to B + or A-

View attachment 201563 [C -> B-] -
The same logic of sylveon and florges, is very good as a healer and has on top a guy who allows him to be a good cleric and for psychics, really nothing more to say, even B-.
see you later.

Things I disagree with
Blissey to S -> Absolutely not
Definition of S is having a way to get past its counters and can fit in a lot of playstyle and having lots of versatility. Blissey only fits on stall and balance teams. On bulky offense teams, if you want a cleric, I would rather go with Sylveon as she is not passive unlike blissey. Blissey cant fight its counters being strong fighting types and physical attacks and has no ability what so ever to break or sweep. Mons such as latias scizor and mega alt can sweep, has a lot of versatility on their sets, can fit on all or most archetypes and can fight their counters. Latias decimates its would be counters or checks with electrum a or just brute forcing them with either boosted dragonium z, HP fire or other wack sets such as surf for steelix-mega. Scizor with SD QA set or knock off in the case of doublade, superpower banded for steels etc and mega altaria being able to carry fire type coverage and beat its steel type nemesis. Can fit in balance, stall, some HO, BO. Now can blissey do all of this? It's the best at its niche being a really bulky special wall but it doesnt have the characteristics of an S tier mon. Unless some madman makes blissey work in HO, I will not see it as an S tier mon.
Crobat to UR -> Debatable
It has a niche. Definition for C ranks is that it either has a niche, is good but is outclassed or as a testing ground. Why does crobat still deserve to be C? Stall/Fatbreaker set. Taunt, Super fang, Brave bird, roost set allows it to be a formidable dealbreaker. Cant be toxiced, burn does somewhat hurt it but with super fang burn doesnt hurt it as much. It has OK MU with latias as it is faster and can OHKO with SSSS after rocks so it shouldn't come in nilly willy. Or other frail mons.
252 Atk Crobat Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 264-312 (87.7 - 103.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
Bulky Steel types could come in but has to fear of getting super fanged. Alomomola and Blissey cant do their jobs on stall due to taunt stopping their shenanigans and super fang chunking them for a lot of their health. Checks the fairy types plaguing the tier due to its typing and can check three of the common rockers in the tier being pert hippo glig.
Mimikyu rising to S -> Absolutely not
It's only really good at like 1 playstyle. Imma use the same reasoning I have with blissey with mimikyu. While yes it can sweep and help in the suffocation of HO nowadays by preventing spin, it's not all powerful unlike the S trio. It cant fit as well in BO, Balance or Stall teams unlike the trio. In this one unless someone builds stall Mimi really well and can win consistently, I will not consider it S. It cant break its conventional checks like the S tiers do being bulky steels as they shrug off its attack etc etc.
Others I'm either agreeing or just indifferent.
Now for my thoughts on the slate
Mimikyu to A -> 60/40
Mimikyu is really powerful in HO. It is really annoying and it's stupid OP ability and luckily it's used on a mon with shit attacking stats. But it's really good at its job at preventing the spikes being spun and this helps its teammates to sweep. But that's it. It's really only a one trick pony. While yes it can be a stall breaker with wood hammer in it's set, I do think this is more niche than it's set common set being Shadow claw sneak SD play rough. So yeah it has its shortcomings but MAYBE the advantages it provides could be enough to raise it.

 

[Sage]

Hallo, presumably the last update of the current generation coming in, but the thread will still be active as we wait for SS UU to roll in.

Rises

A- -> A

New Pokemon to A-

B+ -> A-

B -> B+

B- -> B

B- -> B

C+ -> B-


Drops

A- -> B+

B -> B-

B -> C+

B- -> C+

B- -> C+

C+ -> C

C+ -> C

C -> C-

C -> C-

Reasonings

Rises

Mimikyu has become the face of Hyper Offense, with Disguise forcing your opponent to play in linear ways and it’s fantastic typing giving it many opportunities for setup. It has also seen play in Bulky Offense, as Disguise allows you to have a one time revenge kill for any threat that gets out of hand. While it has some shortcomings, the utility more than makes up for it, and this little guy may rise even further should it keep climbing.

Mew comes into the board as A-, although there could be traction in either direction depending on how it evolves in the meta. From what we can tell so far, Taunt sets with Wisp and either Seismic Toss or Knock Off have proven very useful, being tough for a Stall team to handle without a regen core (and still bothersome with one), while NP sets have been less used but still worthy of a threat. Mew can underperform depending on the matchup a bit more than other tier staples, and it is yet to pick up a win in Snake Draft in 4 appearances, so we feel A- is high enough for now despite its versatility.

Mega Aggron has cycled back to the upper echelon of BO / Balance rockers, with the meta ever closing around Scizor as the generation comes to a close. Curse sets have also picked up a decent amount of traction, with Filter letting it 1v1 support Rotom in a way Steelix can’t ever get through. A spot in the A ranks more reflects its usage and current trends.

Nidoqueen’s power is finally being utilized to its potential, with players recognizing the breaking that comes with being able to run a Modest nature, as well as its better spread in terms of 1v1s with common offensive threats like Mega Aerodactyl and Terrakion. Queen can more consistently set hazards than her male counterpart, while it handles traits that take advantage of its speed like Substitute and Protect. As of now they are pretty much on par with each other, and having both in B+ shows this.

Both Unaware Pokemon are due for a rise with Stall’s current spot in the meta. Pyukumuku has seen more play recently, with recent innovations like its mixed spread that invests more in SpD allowing it to be an effective wall vs threats like Infernape and Altaria at the same time, something other Pokemon simply can not do. It also is able to help in matchups like Togekiss by stalling Air Slashes with Protect. Quagsire hasn’t really changed recently, but the archetype’s general improvement lends itself to a rise.

Stakataka’s Rocks set has been much more useful in recent times, particularly because of the Hyper Offense matchup. Big threat Mimikyu threatens to tear through unprepared teams, and Rock Blast is one of the only ways to ignore Disguise, as well as generally being a great answer to it. It also is able to anti-lead stuff like Froslass by breaking through Focus Sash and check Latias well. The great wall has a place in the meta once again.

Drops

Moltres has been a much less consistent pick recently, barely showing up in Snake Draft and with teams utilizing it often relying on not facing the incorrect Stealth Rock user. Rhyperior has steadily picked back up after being overhated for a portion of time, and Hippowdon’s increased usage makes Mega Aero even more solid of a counter.

Mienshao hasn’t declined all that much in terms of changes, although it can give free turns to Mimikyu. The meta in general has leaned more fast paced with Hyper Offense revitalized, and Mienshao doesn’t offer much in that matchup at all. Regenerator and Knock Off at least keep it afloat in the Stall matchup, but overall the tier is still a little less kind to it.

Zeraora’s bad. It struggles to break through common defensive cores, it’s not as sturdy of a Bullet Punch resist as Mega Manectric, finds itself facing 4MSS constantly, and just in general underperforms in most things you’d want it to do. There has been some slight experimentation with Assault Vest as a pivot, but not enough to keep it from dropping to the C ranks.

Jellicent finds itself struggling in recent times, with Mew coming to take some of its niche as user of Taunt + Wisp. It can still be used effectively in some team structures, but common picks like Hydreigon will always take advantage of it and it can’t effectively break stall if they have anything faster or Toxic Spikes.

Rotom-C, Salazzle, and Crobat all just have gradually dropped out of building, nothing specifically has changed for them other than them being overrated in their current ranks. Rotom Cut struggles to do anything meaningful to Dragon-types and can’t make use of its Bullet Punch resistance well, Salazzle is very matchup based and can be pivoted around easily versus Stall teams, and Crobat fails to provide any of the utility a Fighting-type check should in this meta.

The offensive Ghost-types not named Mimikyu were due for a drop, Decidueye still has an easier stall matchup but the massive competiton as Mimikyu excels in every other area makes its niche even smaller. Cofagrigus seems little to no usage and hasn’t for a long time, while Mimikyu can take advantage of free setup even easier with Disguise.

 

[Hilomilo]

Discussion Points

Mega Altaria S -> A+
The ranking council has discussed potentially leaving only Scizor in S rank to reflect its dominance comparable to every other Pokemon in the tier, though such a change would of course be subject to some controversy. Mega Altaria’s dominance has particularly decreased as adequate preparation has become standardized. In addition to checks like Nidoqueen growing more prominent, Amoonguss and Scizor are metagame mainstays, while Altaria now has competition for a physical Fairy-type from Mimikyu, which previously didn’t exist. Whether S still represents its status has been highly debated by the ranking council, so we figured publicizing the discussion point would be a good idea.

Latias S -> A+
While Latias hasn’t experienced harmful trends to the same extent as Mega Altaria, several ranking council members still believe it to lack the same presence as Scizor required to maintain S rank. The prominence of bulky Steel-types, Dark-types, and Rotom-H leaves builders with several answers to its different sets, though its combination of offensive prowess and defensive utility remains key in keeping several huge threats, including Infernape and Celebi, at bay.

Mimikyu A -> A+
Mimikyu has been the driving force behind hyper offense’s huge recent surge, providing the archetype massive utility and breathing new life into the offensive metagame. Its threat level and importance clearly have had a huge influence over the tier, and whether this is enough to push it into A+ has been discussed amongst the ranking council, though working against Mimikyu is the recent steady usage of several sturdy checks in addition its shaky damage output and general frailty issues.

Nihilego B+ -> B
Nihilego’s offensive prowess seems increasingly harder to take advantage of as Scizor maintains its dominance, Pursuit stays prevalent, and checks such as Mega Aggron and Blissey remain strong picks in the metagame. Its defensive niches have also grown less useful as Moltres has declined. However, it still provides varied utility to several strong builds and remains among the tier’s best answers to Togekiss, which alongside its wallbreaking capabilities could be enough for it to stay B+.

Slowbro B+ -> B
Slowbro dropping has been a decently popular topic among various ranking council members recently. It struggles to compare to its mega evolution, which has drastically better survivability, allowing it to more reliably answer to threats like Terrakion and Altaria while also pulling off 3 attacks sets to much greater success. This alongside regular Bro’s relative passiveness harms it rather significantly and gives it a lot of opportunity cost in metagame full of competitors for bulky Water-types, bringing a drop into question.

Froslass B -> B+
Froslass is a key Pokemon on the hyper offenses currently taking the metagame by storm. Its great synergy with the likes of Mimikyu and rocks Krookodile allows it to consistently perform and provide fantastic utility. However, Froslass itself is a rather linear threat that is hurt a fair amount by its lacking splashability outside of a specific playstyle. Given the presence of other B-ranked threats limited by playstyle splashability, such as the Unaware mons, Froslass’s ideal rank can be a tricky subject.

Mega Houndoom B -> B+
Houndoom’s typing allows it to excel against currently popular Mew sets while providing other solid perks in the metagame, such as an offensive check to both Latias and Scizor, a strong Froslass answer, and a Dark-type with a decent overall Fairy-type matchup. However, it’s still fairly hampered by its lacking usage, struggle to break rising threats in Blissey and Pyukumuku, and the significant competition it suffers from other Fire-types and Nasty Plot users, making a rise less clear cut than on paper.

Cofagrigus/Hoopa/Alolan Marowak C- -> UR
With Mimikyu now a prominent force, the aforementioned Ghost-types find themselves struggling heavily for a slot. This combined with their low usage could justify fully unranking them. Cofagrigus hasn’t seen significant usage in over a year and often struggles to find the setup opportunities necessary to make it a threat. Hoopa semi-recently picked up some steam for its stallbreaking prowess, but struggles to combat the omni-presence of Pursuit combined with its poor bulk and Speed. Alolan Marowak has seen sparing use for the entirety of its availability, with few niches over other Ghost- and Fire-types worth a slot considering its inconsistent defensive utility and awful Speed.

Hope you guys enjoyed the update! I'm aware some possible controversy is on its way with these discussion points, but let's do our best to be civil and kind to one another. Thanks as always for reading! :)

 

[Smallsmallrose]

Discussion Points

Mega Altaria S -> A+: Agree.
Altaria is a bit more manageable than it was before, Nidoqueen becoming a premier tank of the tier has brought forth some 4MSS demons since it's stallbreaker and the sets with fire blast that it wants to have to battle steels really don't want to deal with Nidoqueen. It could use Earthquake to deal with it in theory, but it leaves it much more checkable by other pokemon. Mimikyu has also come along to limit it's matchup against more offensive builds as well, as it acts as a consistent revenge killer beyond the usual Scizor and can constantly harass it off the field. Mimikyu also acts as extremely stiff competition for a physical setup fairy, something Altaria has never had to deal with prior to Mimi's drop. There's also other trends hurting Its overall usefulness on a game to game basis, like the prominence of Amoonguss and the slight but noticeable increase of roar/whirlwind on mons that Altaria would be more than glad to use as setup fodder, like Hippowdon and Empoleon. When it first rose to S, it had something to do in pretty much every matchup at team preview, now it's feeling much closer to a matchup fishing mon. A drop to A+ would reflect this nicely. Its still good for it's defensive roles, but it's not going to break the tier and clean up and the end of every game at the same time anymore.

Latias S -> A+: Disagree.
Latias still drastically outperforms most of A+. It really shouldn't drop just to make Scizor the exclusive S rank pokemon. It has just as many if not more sets than Scizor and among it's sets has ways to circumvent about 90% of it's checks and supposed counters. Assault Vest Bisharp became a thing simply because of it's ability to cover most Lati sets in one slot. While just manageable, Latias demands more out of the builder than just about anything in A+, usually needing much more specific pokemon or a group of several pokemon just to consistently keep it at bay. Latias is also almost exclusively responsible for the absolute dominance of pursuit in this meta, being the most vital pursuit trap target, with only a handful of other things like Nihilego and Celebi being useful targets, but not pokemon we'd think to run pursuit for unless we were already running it for Latias. Its just as dominant as King Scizor and I think those two being the only two S ranks would accurately reflect that, or, if you really wanted to make it clear that Scizor is just a little bit better than Latias, pull an OU and make an S+ rank or something, IDK. Latias being in A+ wouldn't be sincere to how influential it is on the meta, however.

Mimikyu A -> A+: Agree.
Mimikyu has turned the meta on it's head. Its given offense a massive buff to the point that it's arguably just as important an archetype to keep on your mind in the builder as stall. Poor preparation for the spikes builds that Mimi fuels is a one way ticket to the pain train. It slowly creeping it's way on to bulkier offense builds also shows how useful it can be on a game to game basis, usually having something to do against anything but the bulkiest of teams. Be it breaking, revenge killing, spinblocking, denting vital walls without recovery, or just being a general nuisance. The metagame has started to prep for it's offensive prowess a bit, but that doesn't mean this mon doesn't bring so many condensed roles to one slot. It has so much it can do in each matchup that it rarely feels like you're fishing with it, and you're rarely going to regret bringing it to a game.

Nihilego B+ -> B: Agree.
Nihilego really doesn't like this current meta, a lot of pokemon that it likes to check have been phazed out by the rediscovery of Rhyperior, who is also a stiff competitor as a rock type. Pursuit's chokehold on the meta also pressures Nihilego to run protect to do anything, but that cuts into it's niche as an incredibly strong offensive rocker/toxic spiker, in which it also faces competition from the current metagame superstar Nidoqueen. It can also feel a bit underwhelming in matchups against the prominent offensive spikes teams fueled by Mimikyu, as Froslass will taunt it out of setting it's hazards, and most of the staples of those teams like Latias, Sharpedo, and strong priority users like Scizor and Bisharp will completely slaughter it. It feels like this meta really brought the whole kitchen sink in terms of neutering Nihilego into the ground.

Slowbro B+ -> B: Agree.
Slowbro's general role as a physical wall has taken a bit of a hit lately. A lot of the tier's popular physical attackers can comfortably brawl with it. Pokemon like Scizor, Feraligatr, Bisharp, Altaria, Sharpedo, and Mimikyu can take it on without breaking much of a sweat. It's best physical attacker matchups above B- rank are against things like Aero-Mega (Which most teams tend to inherently have a check to anyway) and Terrakion, which can still break the normal Bro variants comfortably with careful play (Or just being Rockium Z) which comes to another point. The competition between Bro and it's mega gets far more stiff as the meta progresses, as Megabro can hit harder, take on physical attackers that regular Bro can't, and probably the biggest kicker, do most of what Bro has over it anyway by simply not mega evolving right away. It feels like you're just kicking yourself for running a Bro without a Slowbronite at this point, unless you're running a specific team that demands it be alongside a mega. Bro Mega can still do regular Slowbro things like regen, but with the added benefit of being able to beef up against colossal physical attacks. Running a strictly regular Bro just feels inferior by comparison.

Froslass B -> B+ Disagree.
I believe this thing truly is in the Quagsire boat of "Shouldn't go past B because it's archetype restricted." Froslass just doesn't match the splashability of most of B+ onward. Its also arguably the easiest member to target of the Mimi spikes core. Many players are finding crafty ways to limit Froslass' spikes turns, like faster taunts, multihit moves, etc. It also experiences 4MSS with wanting to run all of taunt, destiny bond, icy wind, and ice beam but having to pick two among those. Its a crucial, irreplaceable part of the spikes builds it's on, but it's also one of the more exploitable members of these cores, and it's inability to leave the spikes team unlike other pokemon on these builds like Mimi and Sharpedo which can reasonably used other places, makes it's overarching role somewhat limited.

Mega Houndoom B -> B+ Agree.
I LOVE this thing. Its a fantastic pokemon in the current meta. Its one of the few pokemon who isn't really bothered by wisp Mew, an underrated trait as Mew's ability to cripple a good number offensive pokemon with burn and muscle through defensive pokemon with taunt makes it something that can do damage in most matchups, but generally not ones where Doom harasses it. Doom's role as a revenge killer is also very underrated in this meta as it can comfortably revenge kill not only the mentioned Scizor and Latias, but also pokemon like Celebi, Mews of all kinds (Wisp or NP) Bisharp, and the various ghosts of the tier barring Mimikyu. (Though Doom can even revenge that if it takes so much as a light breeze of damage.) It practically feels like you have a scarfer and a half if you run this thing alongside a proper scarfer, as Doom can revenge a surprising amount of things. Speaking of it's speed, it also lends Doom to a great spikes offense matchup. it can bully Froslass, take on common priority users on those teams, and has a good shot to take a couple kills against these teams in general. As for it's bulkier matchups, sure, it isn't the top dog in terms of breaking through Blissey and Pyukumuku as a special attacker, but it's very threatening in pretty much every non-stall defensive matchup. Most balanced and BO teams won't have a defensive answer for it's coverage at +2, as most teams without a Blissey will typically be leaning on a fairy to brawl with special darks, making Doom a very effective breaker until the pink blob and it's cucumber friend shows up at preview, which, when combined with it's niche as a revenge killer, does it really matter that it can't break stall if it has something to do in most other matchups? Doom is underrated and B+ would better reflect just how much it loves this meta.

Cofagrigus/Hoopa/Alolan Marowak C- -> UR Agree on Cofagrigus and Marowak-Alola, Disagree on Hoopa.
For one, why would you lump these 3 under one discussion point considering the different niches they try to take up? That minor little nitpick aside, I'll break down my agreements first, starting with Cofagrigus. OTR in general is a very outdated niche in this meta, as most of the faster, frailer offensive teams that OTR mons try to exploit in this meta generally have enough offensive pressure to stop it from getting going anyway, and even if it could be pulled off, it'd be pulled off better by Stakataka, who has better bulk and typing to both setup Trick Room and use when it's not cleaning opposing teams. The fact that Cofagrigus also demands your Z-Slot (No one is using Life Orb Cofagrigus in 2019, if you were even using Cofagrigus at all) is also extremely painful in a meta where a good chunk of stallbreakers generally need their Z just to barely muscle by the unaware users, while Cofagrigus would be using it to MAYBE fish for decent cheese matchup, which aren't plentiful compared to when it was first ranked. The popularity of dark types and the increase in general special walls with Sub Gengar's popularity (Some of which are specifically ghost resistant) also really doesn't help it's case. Now on to Marowak-Alola. Not to be mean to our friend but I'm.....Honestly surprised this thing stayed ranked as long as it did. It has THE lowest speed tier of any offensive pokemon in UU. To the point that even pokemon like Bewear and Primarina, who are already considered sluggish by breaker standards, can run circles around it. This leaves it open to massive exploitation by faster offensive pokemon. (Which is basically all of them.) Theoretically, this speed would lend it useful to a possible Trick Room team, trick room had any semblance of viability in this day and age. Alowak hardly checks anything to justify this either. It's passable against electrics and Scizor, but even that's generous as Rotom-H just toxics it, and Sciz and Zera have knock off to do massive damage and take it's thick club (The only thing making it remotely unique) and when you're an ""electric type check"" that Zeraora doesn't even need Grass Knot to beat, you've really hit rock bottom. So what does that leave us? A slow glass cannon with an alright matchup against Manetric, the quickly plummeting Rotom-C, and very specific non-knock Scizors. Its a niche I guess, but probably too specific to stay ranked. That's not even mentioning things like rocks, pursuit, dark types in general, it's abyssmal offensive matchup as well as competition from offense's superstar Mimikyu. Alowak is not long for the world in this meta. I guess it has a strong, spammable flare blitz? But honestly I'd rather use the unranked CBDARM for that at this point, at least that doesn't get outrun by half the tier uninvested. This thing probably should have been sent to the shadow realm several shifts ago but better late than never. Now lets talk about why I disagree to unranking Hoopa. Hoopa is honestly still pretty good despite Mimikyu. Like most of the other ranked ghosts do, it can circumvent the overly dominant pursuit using substitute, and at times even punish teams for trying to go hard into their dark types. Hoopa's special defense also gives plenty of this substitute opprotunities. It can abuse many prominent metagame facets like most bulky scald users (It can even spinblock Tentacruel repeatedly, a task that not even Mimi likes to uptake due to the ever present fear of scald burns) as well as other passive pokemon like Amoonguss, Gligar, and of course, stall queen Blissey. Speaking of Stall, Hoopa does enjoy being one of the few special breakers in existence that can actually muscle past Spdef Pyukumuku with some chip and/or a Z-move. And well? Forget about walling it with anything if you aren't playing Spdef Pyukumuku, or an Alomuk. People really underrate how monstrous this thing is when it gets a nasty plot up, it almost always demands you carry an offensive answer to it as Hoopa is arguably one of the most unwallable pokemon in the tier. Not much is able to take it on defensively with a Nasty Plot. And even without the singular Nasty Plot, it's special attack is monstrous. It can easily pick up a kill or two if given a chance to come in on something slower/unable to touch it. Now that isn't to say it doesn't have it's flaws. its slow, it's frail physically, it can still be stopped by a more careful spdef Pyuku player, substitute isn't a foolproof anti-pursuit plan, getting dusted by even the weakest knock off will make it fold over, and there is slight competition from Mimi (Though not really as their niches outside of spinblocking are very different) But it's fine where it is at C-. As a standalone mon, it isn't great, but it still has some nice small perks over the other ghosts that still make it worth using.

 

[Pat Labor]

Mega Altaria S -> A+ Agree
In few week Mega Altaria abilities falls in metagame. Metagame trends to be so agressive or defensive for mAltaria. Offensive teams who struggled against the dragon-bird have new card like MMK to RK. Maltaria is no more the only fairy-typed physical attacker with MMK and Mew is a serious competitor as defog users.

Latias S -> A+: Disagree.
God, no. Latias is unpredictable : Electrium-Z, Choice Spec, Choice Scarf, CM+Stored Power, Life Orber sets are viable, if mmk arrival hurts latias, mew arrival is less evident. Mew is a serious competitor as offensive psychic-typed pokemon. However, Latias has better defensive traits than Mew with levitation and dragon-type resistances and offensive traits with superior SpAtk and speed.

Mimikyu A -> A+ Agree
No Pokemon has a role compression like mmk : a viable spinblocker, RK and wallbreaker in one slot is something very helpful in the current metagame. MMK helps a lot against offensive team and stalls. He is the eponym of a whole playstyle : HO. The highladder trends to be polarised by stalls and ho, thanks to mmk.

Mega Houndoom B -> B+ Disagree on B+, agree on B
Mega Houndoom isn't a monster because he has a serious EH weakness, few HP and no recovery option. Against stalls M-Houndoom is hyper reliable on the 4th move NP/Fire Blast/Dark Pulse/Sunny Day breaks the Pyumukuku and Blissey core. NP/Hp Grass/Overheat/Dark Pulse houndoom beats the Quagsire and Blissey core without SludgeWave he struggles against offensive Pokemon like Primarina or mAltaria. However, he has good qualities, fire and dark-type combinaison give resistances against the most common priority moves in the metagame : bullet punch, sucker punch, ice shard and shadow sneak, then M-houndoom is a good RK against Scizor, Mew, Latias, Bisharp, Mamoswine and MMK. But, NastyApe is more reliable option than Houndoom as fire-typed NP user, he has a priority move, no SR weakness and Latias, its best counter, is removed by a pursuiter.

 

[Moutemoute]

From S to A+ : Strongly disagree

Alright so I'm going to put this two together because the argument to drop both of them is the same aka "Scizor is "better" and was a pillar on UU from beginning to the end which is not the case of this two". In my opinion it's definitively not the good way to adress a ranking change. If you think Scizor is insanely better than this two, then make a S+ tier rank and just put it in it or a S- rank and then put both Mega-Altaria and Latias in this rank.

I do not think Mega-Altaria has become less dominant and if people are running more and more things like Amoonguss or defensive Nidoqueen maybe we should think why ? I do believe that Mega-Altaria is the most greatest Mega-Evolution in the tier because it can fulfill so much things in so many archetypes. First of all, Mega-Altaria is probably the best Mega-Evolution pick for Stall thanks to its great typing and bulk which allows it to check so much threats like Crawdaunt, Terrakion to a lesser extent or just CM Latias (to a certain extent too). It brings so much utility to this team thanks to Defog and/or Heal Bell. On the other hand, Mega-Altaria is a great pick for Balanced / Bulky Offense teams thanks to its sheer power and its access to Dragon Dance which allows it to pressure a lot of Pokemon and even Stall teams thanks to DD + Refresh or DD + Facade. I mean yeah Nidoqueen, Amoonguss and Scizor are good to check it but they can't check every set of Mega-Altaria for sure. Nidoqueen drops to DD + Earthquake Mega-Altaria with just a bit of chip (roll goes to 75.5 - 89%) while Amoonguss without Sludge Bomb struggled so much to deal with almost all variant of Mega-Altaria since it can't beat it 1v1 before it has Mega-Evolved. Last but not least, Scizor need to be careful because DD Mega-Altaria + Fire Blast is now a thing and not a gimmick. Mega-Altaria is undoubtedly between the top 3 Pokemon UU has for sure and it doesn't seem fair to drop it in A+ rank when it's better than every Pokemon is this rank.

Latias is in the same position because it's definitively better than all A+ rank in my opinion. Latias is a super versatile Pokemon with so much great sets (just check its analysis on Smogon it has 5 sets lmao). Dragonium Z and Electrium Z are two super strong and scary set to face and they can bypass each other checks which force you to scout which kind of CM Latias you have in front of you. On the other hand Choice Specs Latias can be super threatening if you weren't aware of it because it has a insane sheer power right away. Last but not least, even if it's not the best set of Latias in my opinion, Choice Scarf Latias is still a decent option with great speed tier and nice utility thanks to Healing Wish/Trick/Defog..

I understand that Scizor is better than both Mega-Altaria and Latias and I kinda agree with it. However I do not believe those two should be drop in A+ because they're way better than their counterparts in the A+ rank.

tl;dr : put scizor S+ or mega-altaria & latias S-