Virginity

[Matthew]

1) Yes, I'm a virgin, sadly. It's not by choice, it's because most people in rl loathe/ignore/whatever me, and that my last hookup was in January. But whatever, you guys don't need to hear my sob story.

2) I have no problem with casual sex, and I dislike the emphasis that society places on someone's virginity, be it on males to lose it or females to keep it. I find it especially disgusting that some people can care so much about a piece of vestigial tissue (the hymen of a female), but hey, if you like it, go for it. Just don't expect me to hang around you.

I'm sorry, but what the fuck? Just because someone wants to wait for someone special, or until marriage then you won't be their friend? That is probably the most shallow thing I've ever heard. Be it for religious reasons or personal it is their choice what they allow someone to do with their body, simple as that. Do you expect a girl who was savagely raped to just put out for any average guy? No, she'll wait for a guy who she feel safe with, someone who she will feel comfortable with, someone who won't force it upon her. Would you not hang out with that girl because she is waiting for 'Mr. Right?'

Look, it's their body and they can and cannot do what they want with it. You have absolutely no say in what they should do. I don't drink or do drugs, I doubt many kids see that as cool but they respect my decisions about what I put into my body. So respect someone's feelings about who they let enter their body (or are the ones entering, shouldn't assume it's a girl!) and don't consider not hanging out with someone because of that reason.

 

[ivar]

What matters in a relationship varies from person to person, but if you want multiple partners who are all incapable of jealosy, good luck. Us monogamous guys usually have a hard enough time finding one girl with the same relationship needs.

friends can be jealous of other friends, but that doesn't stop anyone from having multiple friends or best friends.

 

[Reno]

• Are you a virgin? If so, then why are you still one? If not, then what made you decide to lose it/give it away?

yeah, I’m a virgin. I pin it down to complete lack of self confidence, to be honest. I’m in the mindset that my first time will be with someone I want to be with, but I can’t really see that happening either. it is probably a bunch of other things as well, but self-consciousness and lack of confidence I’m putting down as the main factors.

• What are your views on the idea of "casual sex" or, in general, the value of virginity? Is it something worth keeping?

ehhh. I’m from Essex, so being a virgin is like having a tag for loser. the vast majority of people my age (18 or so) lost their virginity at 15-16. Casual sex... I don’t really know. I’ve always thought it should be something between partners, not something between the walls of an alleyway. I guess I can’t really comment on this as I have no experience of it.

• If it is, why do you think it's worth keeping? If not, justify why it's lost its value.

I’d like to say you keep it so you can be proud of not having lost it till you were with someone you loved, but that is pretty contradictory to what I think. being around people who lost their virginity at 15 or so really doesn’t make it seem all that special and sacred, and really just makes me think worse of myself.

• Do you think there's a certain dogma about being a virgin? Is it generally accepted, approved upon, or criticized?

I’d say it was criticized, to be honest. if anyone ever asks me if I am a virgin and I say no, it tends to result in ‘aww really? that’s so cute *giggle*’. yeah I don’t get many guys ask me. when I have, it has been ‘seriously? mate you need to get laid’ or... whatever. either way, it is incredibly patronising, to me anyway. then again, I could just be looking at things from the wrong angle. but generally I’d say it is considered negative to be a virgin, for me at least.

• What emotional and relational requirements do you think there are for being ready to have sex for the first time?

trust is such a major factor. I don’t really see how you could do anything with someone you don’t trust. I guess some feeling of love, be it purely physical, has to be involved. ideally, my first time would be with a girlfriend of a few months who wouldn’t hold anything against me, judge me or what not.

 

[Surgo]

you obviously have some big psychological problems.

Some people, including some of my friends, completely lack any sex drive whatsoever. There's no "psychological problem" there -- I even see it as something of an advantage over the rest of us.

 

[Hot Nikkels]

Because the emotional value of sex is debatable, it makes no sense that something arguably purely physical can strengthen a relationship, which is an intangible (therefore not physical) thing. Of course, I might be getting the definitions of "physical" and "emotional" completely wrong, in which case I'm sure someone will set me straight without linking me to Wikipedia and then I can re-evaluate what I'm saying.

If there are any more reasons for having sex, then I'd like to hear them.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/features/10-surprising-health-benefits-of-sex?page=2

#6 relates directly to your first quoted point

http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/08/cz_af_1008health.html

http://www.askmen.com/dating/dzimmer/18_love_answers.html

Also, and this is just my personal opinion, but I think people need to take another look at the term "casual sex". Obviously there are big differences (mostly in regards to personal safety) between going to candy raves and having multiple Ecstasy-induced sexual experiences with anonymous partners than having a close female friend who you have occasionally become physical with, though not in a committed relationship.

If it matters, I'm 24 years old.

 

[6A9 Ace Matador]

i am pretty sure that is being asexual and not what he is describing. i may be wrong.

 

[DM]

Like Surgo said: great thread.

If there are any more reasons for having sex, then I'd like to hear them.

Put quite simply (and this is the only reply I will make to your post), when you have an orgasm like the one I had yesterday with my girlfriend, it feels like your entire body is exploding in sheer physical ecstasy, all the particles shooting out into space at a millions miles per hour. I suppose if you despise sex, you despise feeling good.

On to the questions:

• Are you a virgin? If so, then why are you still one? If not, then what made you decide to lose it/give it away?

I am not a virgin. I am 26 and I lost it when I was... 19? I was a late bloomer by society's standards. I had just built sex up in my mind to be something unattainable and put it on a silly pedestal. A girl who really liked me who I didn't really think of as anything past a friend offered to have sex with me, so I did it. She didn't have a uterus so I didn't wear a condom, and it lasted about 45 seconds. But it was a weight off my mind after that, and while I was never the "go look for sex at every party" kind of guy, it really loosened me up to the whole proposition of opening myself up to a woman.

• What are your views on the idea of "casual sex" or, in general, the value of virginity? Is it something worth keeping?

Casual sex has its place, some people thrive on it, but I'm not one of them. Back in winter 07-08 I had a girlfriend who turned out to be horrible for me. We broke up in the spring, and I was pretty hurt by it. It kind of sent me into this spiral for the entire summer and fall where I would just have meaningless sex at every opportunity. I look on that time as a pretty wasteful time in my life, where I didn't really know what I wanted out of relationships. Thankfully, I settled down and started dating properly again (and got checked for STDs more than once, always luckily clean).

• If it is, why do you think it's worth keeping? If not, justify why it's lost its value.

Its value has been placed on it not by you (royal You, not Bam), but by society and religion and all the other external influences you have in life. Some people are raised ultra-religious and end up having crazy amounts of pre-marital sex; everyone makes their own choices in life. I, personally, find the concept of "virginity" to be a bit archaic and based on social mores that in great part no longer exist.

• Do you think there's a certain dogma about being a virgin? Is it generally accepted, approved upon, or criticized?

There is certainly a dogma about being a virgin. For men, it's looked upon as a sign of masculinity to lose it; for women, virgins are considered prudes. Anyone who admits to being a virgin past the age of 18 is surely to face ridicule, even from close friends.

• If you are not a virgin, what would you say to a virgin friend who is considering giving it up? Would you encourage him to lose it or keep it, and why?

I would tell them to be safe about it. I wouldn't try to sway them either away about the ultimate decision, because I don't believe that is a decision anyone else should make for you. All I would say is if you're going to have sex, make sure you take all proper precautions.

Oh, and do it more than once. The first time is never that great. Doing it once and giving up is like smoking pot once then swearing it off: you don't really get high until the 3rd time.

• What emotional and relational requirements do you think there are for being ready to have sex for the first time?

Well, considering I've had sex with people on the night I met them, I suppose there is no answer to this. However, I will say how it happened with my current girlfriend.

We started dating in October. Previously, I had had a problem of moving way too fast with women, to my own detriment. I wanted to make damn sure that I didn't do anything like that with this one, so I told her up front that I wanted to take it slowly. She agreed, and we didn't have sex until a month into our relationship. (Pretty long by modern day standards. It turns out she wanted to the entire time and was basically begging for it; I thought we were in agreement, but turns out I was the one holding out on her.)

Like Phantom, trilog, and others mentioned before, the sex took our relationship to an entirely new level. I liked her a lot before we did it, but through physical intimacy we built a much stronger bond than one that could be formed with words alone. We just now hit six months together, and I love the shit out of her (and her me). I have never felt so comfortable around a woman before, and I have never felt the trust that we share. I'm not saying we wouldn't be in love without sex, but I can say without a doubt in my mind that our bond wouldn't be as strong sans sex.

 

[mtr]

I'm sorry, but what the fuck? Just because someone wants to wait for someone special, or until marriage then you won't be their friend? That is probably the most shallow thing I've ever heard. Be it for religious reasons or personal it is their choice what they allow someone to do with their body, simple as that. Do you expect a girl who was savagely raped to just put out for any average guy? No, she'll wait for a guy who she feel safe with, someone who she will feel comfortable with, someone who won't force it upon her. Would you not hang out with that girl because she is waiting for 'Mr. Right?'

Look, it's their body and they can and cannot do what they want with it. You have absolutely no say in what they should do. I don't drink or do drugs, I doubt many kids see that as cool but they respect my decisions about what I put into my body. So respect someone's feelings about who they let enter their body (or are the ones entering, shouldn't assume it's a girl!) and don't consider not hanging out with someone because of that reason.

First of all, if you read my second paragraph, I fully agree that everyone should be allowed their own values, and I respect that. And by 'hang out', I meant enter into a relationship with, not simply 'hang out'. I apologize for any misunderstanding caused by my words.

As for your first point: I had to deal with a girl who was waiting for Mr. Right. It bugged the hell out of me to know someone who would readily perform fellatio on you, but refuse to engage in intercourse because she didn't see herself marrying you.

How I saw it was that if someone was waiting for "Mr. Right", then she probably doesn't think the person she's with, aka me, has any potential. Which is sad, because in a relationship, a person should be truly devoted to the guy/girl they're with. Obviously, she's going have sex with other guys if she isn't going to be a nun. But if she doesn't have sex with you, that means you're worth less to her than the other guys.

Now I know you're going to think I'm shallow for suggesting this. But try substituting the word "dinner" in place of "sex" into the sentences. See my point now?

So don't let yourself be abused by a girl as such. I realized this, and I told that bitch I was dealing with to fuck off. Haven't spoken to her in months :)

 

[WarriorPrince]

I am a virgin. I'm 17 and I am a heterosexual male. I don't care who knows I am a virgin and know that it's 'cause I choose to be not because I can't get a chick. Most girls find me attractive[I can't speak for everyone, but I can speak from experience], but I have a habit of turning cute girls down just for the lols. I don't understand why some of them still try. The relationship ain't gonna work for them unless there is sex involved. I am not gonna have sex till I am married. There's an obvious conflict there, but they still insist that I may change my mind.

I don't agree with casual sex. It just helps spreads STD's and adds to the unwanted pregnancy total.

I definite agree that there is a dogma about being a virgin. It truly depends on where you are though. Some of the kids call me a "boy" just to be funny. I guess they don't think I'm a man till I smash something.

 

[Sanglunaria]

Frankly, to the OP, I don't really see why you're still with that girl. If she realized that virginity/sex is such an important issue to you (i.e., she really cares about you and your values), she wouldn't have been sleeping around. but that's just my personal opinion.

Yes, I am still a virgin. There are many reasons as to why I chose this, but the main one is that I'm incredibly paranoid about getting pregnant (yes, I'm a girl). I'm in my fourth year of being an engineering major and I'm planning on staying in school for a fifth year so I can complete my math minor. I'm incredibly busy, I wouldn't say I'm the most emotionally balanced person in the world, and I don't feel like I firm grasp on my life yet, so even though I have had a steady boyfriend for more than 3 years now, I'd hate to ruin everything by having an "oops" baby. Yes, I am aware of contraceptives. Honestly, I don't trust condoms alone to do the job, so I wouldn't have sex unless I was also on birth control... which I'm not on now because my parents are opposed to the idea of birth control pills and I don't have the income to buy them myself at the moment. Secondly, I am personally against abortion, so there's even less of a reason for me to have sex right now. Lastly, I value emotional happiness side of love much more than the lustful part.

As you can see from all of the above, I think virginity is worth keeping if you're still fairly uncertain about where you are in life and your goals. To some degree, I also feel like girls devalue themselves when they go around having casual sex, but it's really not my place to tell people what they should do. If people want to have sex because they find it enjoyable, then that's their prerogative, not mine.

Virginity is criticized because that's what the biological and "animal" side of us tells us- that if you're still a virgin, then you're considered too weak/unattractive to reproduce. Every now and then, I get the feeling that my friends think me to be naive just because I haven't had sex yet, but I see it more as me thinking out my life more than they have. Sometimes my boyfriend gets crap from his "friends" about not having sex with me yet, but I really think he should just tell them to shut the fuck up.

t;ldr: Yes, I'm a virgin. I think virginity should be kept if you aren't ready to deal with the consequences (emotional, mental, and physical) of having sex.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

• Are you a virgin? If so, then why are you still one? If not, then what made you decide to lose it/give it away?

I am not a virgin. At first, I thought that in order to go to heaven I could not fornicate. I was so worried about it that I started praying, asking God to help me stop masturbating in 8th grade. Then, I began straying from the views that had been imposed on me from an early age. At that point, I realized that virginity (for males at least) is a mere word, as your body does not change at all once you begin having intercourse. Thus, I began looking for suitable sexual partners, largely failing until my junior year in highschool.

• What are your views on the idea of "casual sex" or, in general, the value of virginity? Is it something worth keeping?

Casual sex can ABSOLUTELY be harmful on your psyche if you become emotionally attached to the person. However, if it truly is casual sex, and you have no emotional stake in the person along with rarely seeing them, then it is something that is not only relaxing but also very fulfilling for the short time that it occurs. Not only that, but if you become emotionally attached and your love is reciprocated, it can lead to a productive long-term relationship. Once again though, if this is what you're looking for at the beginning of a "casual sex" relationship, then it will ultimately fail the majority of the time. Regarding the value of virginity, the only real purpose in keeping your virginity is to apply the word to yourself, since that is the only difference between a non-virgin and a virgin in males. Those who wish to keep their virginity typically either cannot get laid, and thus tout their virginity as something sacred to protect themselves from the reality of the situation, or they have been misled.

• What emotional and relational requirements do you think there are for being ready to have sex for the first time?

I believe in a couple of different requirements to begin having sex.

1. You have to be intelligent enough to have sex. This means ALWAYS USE PROTECTION. Even if the person you are having sex with says they are on birth control or have never had sex before, ALWAYS USE PROTECTION. Don't buy shitty condoms, and if one does break, get the morning after pill. Immediately go to your parents, explain the situation, and buy one.

2. Understand that having sex as male does not change you physically, and that it will not condemn you to hell. If you don't understand this, then don't have sex. Because, sex is not something you should regret.

3. Understand that if you don't have an emotional connection or an extreme lust for someone, sex will not be nearly as fulfilling. Many people have spur-of-the-moment sex with someone who they have no interest in, and ultimately find it quite disappointing.

Enjoy, Bam ;)

 

[FattyButt]

As for sex being fun, I do not understand how sticking your penis inside another person's body and thrusting until semen comes out can be fun.

There are a lot of nerve endings there, if you catch my drift.

 

[trilog]

without linking me to Wikipedia and then I can re-evaluate what I'm saying.

yeah because Wikipedia isn't credible or anything, right?

sounds like my high school teachers.

that being said if you find no pleasure from sex then it obviously isn't for you, but you cannot simply say you dislike it or think it isn't fun/pleasurable without trying it.

 

[Zacchaeus]

You seriously need to get a reality check. You're way too sheltered and, for the lack of a better word, selfless

 

[Bam]

And I could just as rightfully say that you seriously need to get a reality check, weren't raised with enough care, and are, for lack of a better word, are selfish, simply because your views don't mesh with mine.

In better terms: shut the fuck up.

Everybody: Please don't use this thread to discuss my girlfriend or my parents. Yes, I don't necessarily agree with how I was raised and I'm not proud of every little thing my girlfriend has done, but this is not the place to talk about either of those. If this comes up again then I will just edit out half of the op and anything pertaining to that topic.

Perhaps you should read the op in its entirety before posting and consider offering some relevant points of conversation rather than simply saying how it's my problem when I didn't ask for you to tell me and even specifically said not to in the first place.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

Just wondering, Bam. What are you leaning towards currently?

 

[FattyButt]

I'm not understanding why so many people talk about being a virgin even when they don't want to be.

People tend to underestimate themselves. When they say that they have a total lack in self confidence, its usually about looks. Honestly, its not as big of a deal as people think it is. I'm actually not the best looking guy. But I still manage to get girls. All you need is to be charming or funny... and fake some self confidence. It's actually not as much about looks as people think it is.

 

[ivar]

philosophy majors: virginity is an ascetic ideal maybe?

 

[Siete]

I think the value of virginity relies upon a number of variables. One of the main things that lowers the values of virginity, mainly in guys, is peer opinion. Most guys are expected to be losing it fairly early. This seems to connect to the view between guys that sleeping with someone isn't always a sign of commitment, just a triumph. The image that is called to mind is guys high-fiving over someone sleeping with some girl.

However, on the other hand, I believe that most guys hold a certain value in a girl being a virgin. Well, before they take it, of course. It gives them this possessive feeling, that no matter what happens, they'll have taken that away, and no one else will be able to do that afterwards.

And for girls, the peer opinion of another girl losing it early is that they're someone who likes to sleep around and as such, is a dislikable person.

At least, that's my opinion. I lost it at the age of 16, so I dunno.

 

[Veritas]

I would prefer it to be an experience that I only share with one person ever. So I'm waiting until I'm married. It is just something special, and in my opinion it would be just all the better knowing you and your partner saved it for each other. I don't even like the thought of girls i'm interested in, kissing other guys, let alone having sex.

 

[omgthatkid]

I think casual sex is fine, as long as you're safe about it.
Sex only has as much meaning as you attach to it.
If you want it really bad, then prepare for the consequences that may come with that.
If you don't, you may be missing out on something.
Finding the solution to this dilemma should be more of an internal struggle in which you evaluate how much you want it, rather than something you ask on Smogon, in my opinion.

 

[Bam]

To answer my own questions.

• Are you a virgin? If so, then why are you still one? If not, then what made you decide to lose it/give it away?
• What are your views on the idea of "casual sex" or, in general, the value of virginity? Is it something worth keeping?
• If it is, why do you think it's worth keeping? If not, justify why it's lost its value.
• Do you think there's a certain dogma about being a virgin? Is it generally accepted, approved upon, or criticized?
• If you are not a virgin, what would you say to a virgin friend who is considering giving it up? Would you encourage him to lose it or keep it, and why?
• What emotional and relational requirements do you think there are for being ready to have sex for the first time?

1. I am a virgin by choice. I have considered having sex in the past (and especially recently) but have simply decided not to. However, that doesn't mean that I don't question my decision to refrain from having sex.

2. I think casual sex is logically ok I guess but is not something I find attractive or want to get involved in at all. It goes hand in hand with the "do whatever the fuck I want attitude" which I personally can't stand. Everybody I know who engages in casual sex in the end gives no value to sex at all and, I believe, will be missing out on something that they could have otherwise. All my friends who've had sex with multiple people have told me that sex with somebody you truly love is a million times better than sex with randoms or just for enjoyment, and I believe them.

I don't necessarily know if I think there's something special about virginity. After all, it is only a unprovable and mute state of being that people have come up with. I guess that I only thing it's a big deal because I think that sex is a big deal and is something that should be shared primarily between two people that love each other (although I'm sure everybody has their definition of love). For example, if my girlfriend had not cheated on me, then I probably would be much more comfortable in having sex with her. The only reason I probably haven't is because she did and that showed me that, at least at that point in time, she wasn't taking our relationship seriously and did not love me. Do I believe that she's changed? Yes! But I just want to make sure before I have sex with her so in the end, I can't possibly regret it or feel as if I'd been used. So in my opinion, virginity is somewhat of a novelty. Something worth individual value in the same way that tourists collect memorabilia of places they visit - it's the first time of a very wonderful experience.

4. I think that if anything, there's positive pressure to stay a virgin, at least throughout high school. Many of my friends have told me that they're jealous of my staying a virgin and wish that they had done the same...and for various reasons. Some regret who they lost it to, how they lost it, gaining STDs, gaining a reputation for being promiscuous, the drama it caused in the relationship, not being ready for it, etc.

Being a virgin has certainly been an attractive item to every girl I've dated.

5. n/a

6. In my mind, I just find it much more emotionally safe to truly love that person and be able to accept possible outcomes of sex before doing it. If you are not ready to be a father, then you better hope to god that 99% failproof condom works for you.


In response to OOF's question:

I really don't know which way I'm leaning atm. I want to do it, and I truly do love her. I can say this because I really would love to spend the rest of my life with her and hope that it works out to happen that way. However, I think that more waiting may be necessary, as well as some possible reexaminations of my motives.

While reading this thread, I came across an interesting point: you should not have sex because you can't find reasons not to, but rather should have sex only when you can find reasons to. Why do I want to do it? I have many different motives, some of which are reasonable and others that aren't. So at this point, I'm neutral. But no worries, I have lots of time ;).

 

[hobo bob]

Very well said OoF it is kinda sad how some people teach their kids that if he/she masturbates they will go to hell. Unfortunatly I fell for the same thing and hated myself for that when I was younger, and it was very confusing for me.

Interesting opinions, I would pitch in my two cents but I'm feeling a little lazy at the moment so nothing for now.

 

[pkmn-taicho321]

ugh, I had this whole thing written out and firefox fucked up on me....


Anyway, I do have a question I want people to consider. When have you 'given up your virginity'?

From personal experience I know that a lot of teenagers intent on saving themselves still engage in other activities with their partners, barring penetration(excuse my crudeness). Yet I'm of the belief that 'virginity' as a concept, is more related to any act between two people that would be considered 'third base' (I think, I never really got the concept of the bases >.>).

Sex is important yeah, but 'messing around' is like foreplay without the follow through. You've basically already taken that first step.

 

[sce4]

I have a lot of friends who have lost their virginity (I'm pretty sure the youngest was 12 at the time), it seems to me that they normally have self esteem issues, most is more like a trying to fit in/act big in front of friends, and the others want to know that people love them. It seems as though their is a kind of playground hierarchy of how for you can get with someone (which is completely wrong). There are some people who brag about getting a blow job from a fit girl, 'accidentally' leaving out the part that she had no idea what she was doing because of all of the Kettemin (horse tranquilizer). I've had the chance to lose my virginity but i refused, not because I don't believe in casual sex but I would like both of us to know and have memory of what we are doing (for my first time at least).