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Virginity

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So, my questions for you, smogon, are as follows (and please discuss the questions in a group fashion - I mean to start a discussion, and not simply ask for help. Convince me through your personal experiences):
Are you a virgin? If so, then why are you still one? If not, then what made you decide to lose it/give it away?

No, I'm not a virgin. I suppose at the time I felt that it was the right thing to do in the relationship, to really show how I felt about her. I cared deeply for her and wanted her to know by expressing myself in love making.

What are your views on the idea of "casual sex" or, in general, the value of virginity? Is it something worth keeping?

I believe that this is entirely up to the person in question. I don't believe the whole religious philosophy that having sex before marriage is something to be frowned upon (I don't necessarily agree with marriage either, but that's for another topic). I don't think there is much value to be put on virginity. Sex is a natural part of life, and of course someone will always remember their first time, but that's all it really is. The significance comes from the fact that you are willing to share all of yourself to another person, not because its your first time or thirtieth time in doing so. It is only worth keeping if the person in question has some sort of religious or personal view that being a virgin is of importance, otherwise I do not see any significance.

If it is, why do you think it's worth keeping? If not, justify why it's lost its value.

I don't believe there was much value to be placed on virginity in the first place. Society has a way of blowing things out of proportion and this is one of those cases. In earlier periods of time virgins were considered "pure" but that typically only applied to women. It is a double standard that still goes on today. Men are expected to get rid of their virginity as quickly as possible, while women are viewed as sluts for having sex. It is views like this that make me feel that virginity is unimportant. The fact that it is the first time doesn't make it significant to me.

Do you think there's a certain dogma about being a virgin? Is it generally accepted, approved upon, or criticized?

I think society has somewhat picked up on the fact that it really doesn't matter whether someone is a virgin or not. It is not up to anyone except for that person so I don't see why anyone else should care one way or the other. Of course there is that same double standard to consider; guys are usually praised for losing their virginity while girls are considered whores. I certainly think that society is becoming more accepting, but it still has a long way to go.

If you are not a virgin, what would you say to a virgin friend who is considering giving it up? Would you encourage them to lose it or keep it, and why?

I would tell them to think it over and make sure that they really want to do this. There shouldn't be any pressure to rush into losing their virginity. I would much rather have my friend experience a long fulfilling relationship than to have it cut short because they had sex way too early. I would say to listen to their conscience and to do it when they feel the time is right. Friends can help out by being passive but still supportive. I think it is unfair to encourage them to lose it or keep it.

What emotional and relational requirements do you think there are for being ready to have sex for the first time?

Once again, this differs from person to person. For the most part, I believe people should wait until they are in a serious relationship before they consider losing it. Usually people are quite young when they lose it and this is probably the best way of having less regrets than having a one night stand influenced by peers or drugs. All I can say is if you don't feel ready, you probably aren't. The fact that being a virgin isn't significant, these requirements should always be heavily considered when someone is thinking about having sex.
 
archangel_94 said:
You find out that your sister (if you have one) is pregnant at 16 years of age by a stranger,or someone you know at school.How would you feel?What would you do to that person who had sex with your sister?

What about this...

Your sister goes out with a person that you don't approve of,you don't like.Your parents say "no" to her about going out together with that boy,but secretly,she goes out with him,and has sex with him,and have a baby.How would you feel?
Click to expand...

I'd feel like my sister is fucking retarded, honestly. :|
 
archangel_94 said:
You find out that your sister (if you have one) is pregnant at 16 years of age by a stranger,or someone you know at school.How would you feel?What would you do to that person who had sex with your sister?
Click to expand...

What would you do? After all, if they didn't rape your sister then you can't shift the blame entirely on them. She would be just as irresponsible as the boy she fucked. Physically harming the guy wouldn't be just, nor would it solve anything. If I were in that situation my actions would change depending on my sister's. If she wanted to keep the baby then I'd try and convince the guy to help take responsibility. If she wanted to abort it, I'd ask him to help cover the costs. Most likely I'd try and convince her to give it away to someone more capable of taking care of a baby.
 
archangel_94 said:
Do you have a sister,popemobile?
Because if you do,try to imagine this...

You're walking down the street when you see a guy hitting on your sister,a complete stranger.What would you do??

And this scenario...

You find out that your sister (if you have one) is pregnant at 16 years of age by a stranger,or someone you know at school.How would you feel?What would you do to that person who had sex with your sister?

What about this...

Your sister goes out with a person that you don't approve of,you don't like.Your parents say "no" to her about going out together with that boy,but secretly,she goes out with him,and has sex with him,and have a baby.How would you feel?


As for men,they don't have to endure the shame they would have if they were 16 and pregnant.
Click to expand...

I don't have a sister. Also I was specifically talking about legal adults over 18 years old, and I'd like to know why you think they shouldn't be having sex until they're married.

Regardless, I think that teenagers should be taught comprehensive sex education so they can make proper decisions and avoid teenage pregnancy. I think this situation wouldn't occur, or at least it would have a much lower chance, if teens were taught about sex and birth control and the like, and then be allowed to make their own decisions about sex. Would you agree?
 
So archangel_94, the only reason you think girls shouldn't have sex before marriage, is because they might get pregnant. Men, however, cannot, so it's alright for them to sleep aroud?
 
this is one of the most mature things i have read on the internet, cheers on that.

but to the actual discussion.
i am not a virgin, am 19, and have had sexual encounters of varies degrees for several years, though with only two people, both of whom i had long relationships with. so on the issue of casual sex, it is not something i partake in or encourage, but i do not hate on those that do. it is there personal choice and i respect that. as to what requirements and such you should have, i personally have to actually have some emotional connection to them, and a feeling of ummm for lack of a better word, "rightness" to it. seems like i just knew when it was the right time to take that step forward.

and in regard to double standard for women having sex being sluts and men being heroes: it is ridiculous.
 
I place no importance on virginity. We're here on earth for a short period of time, and why should I want to impose some crazy barriers on myself, and stop myself from enjoying my life as much as possible.

Sex doesn't need to be special at all, men enjoy it, women enjoy it so if no-one gets hurt there is no problem with casual sex whatsoever. I think the problem is people tend to link sex to emotions, and this doesn't need to be the case. There is something special about sex with someone you love, but just because such a concept as that exists, doesn't mean we can't just enjoy it for what it is.
 
popemobile said:
I don't have a sister. Also I was specifically talking about legal adults over 18 years old, and I'd like to know why you think they shouldn't be having sex until they're married.

Regardless, I think that teenagers should be taught comprehensive sex education so they can make proper decisions and avoid teenage pregnancy. I think this situation wouldn't occur, or at least it would have a much lower chance, if teens were taught about sex and birth control and the like, and then be allowed to make their own decisions about sex. Would you agree?
Click to expand...


Yes,I agree that teenagers should be taught about sex,but is that helping?

Read this:http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-01-07-teenbirths_N.htm

And as for girls not having sex before marriage...Some girls might like it,some girls might not.

I mean,during teenage years(13-18),our sense of judgment is just starting to develop,so we might make a couple of things that we regret in later life.As an adult,we have a sense of judgment that is experienced.

First-time sex during teenage years is something that we'd all like to experience,is it not?But there's that double standard that women who have sex are sluts,men who have sex are heroes.

I just think that first-time marriage is better than first-time teenage sex,that's what my cousins say.The youngest one is 24,and he says that he regrets having sex with his girlfriend on prom night(reasons to private to discuss,he didn't even tell me why).Would you be willing to have sex now,as a teenager,and have your girlfriend,your lover,bear the marks of your love,and be branded as a whore?Would you?

All in all,I end this discussion by saying:
It's just a matter of personal preference.
 
archangel_94 said:
And as for girls not having sex before marriage...I don't know...just something in my heart that says that's wrong.Some girls might like it,some girls might not.

All in all,I end this discussion by saying:It's just a matter of personal preference.
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1st of all, if you even bothered reading the article you linked to you would see that some people are attributing the increase in births to abstinence only education. That isn't being taught about sex that is being taught that sex (and birth control) is wrong.

If it is purely a matter of personal preference then why the fuck did you even bother arguing about it in the first place?
 
Obsessed said:
1st of all, if you even bothered reading the article you linked to you would see that some people are attributing the increase in births to abstinence only education. That isn't being taught about sex that is being taught that sex (and birth control) is wrong.

If it is purely a matter of personal preference then why the fuck did you even bother arguing about it in the first place?
Click to expand...

I just liked to have my say on this matter.Freedom of speech.
 
archangel_94 said:
Yes,I agree that teenagers should be taught about sex,but is that helping?

Read this:http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-01-07-teenbirths_N.htm
Click to expand...

Seems like the increased rate is due to lack of sex education, and better sex education would lower teen pregnancies.

I just think that first-time marriage is better than first-time teenage sex,that's what my cousins say.The youngest one is 24,and he says that he regrets having sex with his girlfriend on prom night(reasons to private to discuss,he didn't even tell me why).Would you be willing to have sex now,as a teenager,and have your girlfriend,your lover,bear the marks of your love,and be branded as a whore?Would you?
Click to expand...

I've met no more than a handful of people who actually regretted having sex in high school. I did have sex with my girlfriend in high school, no one called her a whore.

Also, lmao at "bear the marks of your love".

Edit: and once again you didn't even answer my original question, but I guess this conversation isn't going anywhere anyways so whatever
 
without reading the whole thread, here's something i wrote on the subject when a similar question was posed on another forum.

i waited to have sex until my wedding night, as did my wife.

i know several couples who have done the same.

while according to my belief system, pre-wedding sex is forbidden, i come at it from a different angle, a more logical and practical angle in my mind. while i know many of you will immediately argue that having sex with as many different people as you can as many times as possible is perfectly natural and only evolutionary, that is not my point of contention. if that's what works for you, go right ahead. but i've not seen this approach work. granted my exposure is somewhat limited, but everyone i've talked to still feels empty afterward. i'm not going to try and make the religious argument here, because there's nothing i'm going to say that will dissuade anyone. the point i'm trying to make, is that having sex outside of a committed relationship is sort of like taking a bat to a china cabinet, it's fun while it lasts, but afterward there's nothing left but a gigantic mess, and you can either stay and try to clean up, or run away and find a new set of china. the china isn't just the person you're with, you leave a part of yourself with everyone you fuck.

i'm not by any means trying to judge or condemn anyone, some of my closest friends are single and fucking. what i'm trying to say is that there's another option. it's not as glamorous and it sure as hell isn't very socially sanctioned, but it's there all the same.

my wife and i didn't abstain from sex because of religion, or God, or our parents. we made the choice to save the most special parts of ourselves for the person we would choose to spend the rest of our lives with. and because of that, we by-passed a shitload of baggage and issues that stem from such broken and dead ends. when you bring sex into a relationship, it chemically changes your behavior, emotions and feelings. if you do it too often, how long before you're unsure of how to really commit and be with one person? if you have no intentions of doing such a thing, then more power to you , i wish you the best in life. but if you have a notion to "settle down" and start a family, you might want to have a little prescience.

i also take issue with the entire american/societal concept of "dating". it's never made sense to me, not even as a child. it's little more than a perpetual cycle of meetings and hook-ups and eventual break-ups. and that's seen as normal, that's what's expected. and that fucking sucks. you cry, you weep, you wail, and then you move on to the next best thing, your ex 2.0, until that person betrays you or you betray them. that's a lot of pain and suffering that i see as pointless and unnecessary. it's akin to a thousand little divorces, subtly shaping your idea of acceptability, until one day when you're in a different sort of relationship, things don't work out or they get too hard, or whatever, and so you "break-up", and move on, and find a better version of your past relations. this mindset as i see it is detrimental to the very nature of a lifelong commitment. it's fucking rough sometimes, but you have to choose to make it, to work it out, to communicate, and to love someone not in spite of their faults and shortcomings... but because of them. and you're fighting an uphill battle if you've been practicing since you were 15 to cut and run if it "doesn't work out".

and i'm not saying that every marriage or relationship will work if you just try hard enough, because it takes two people to achieve success. i realized too late that that opposite of casual dating can be just as destructive. i was with a girl for four years, from 15 to 19, and it fucked me up pretty bad in a lot of different ways. when it was finally over, it seemed ludicrous that i would stay in such an abuse and co-dependent relationship for so long, but i wasn't a quitter i told myself, and i could make it work if i just tried hard enough, and i was wrong, and i paid dearly for my mistake. but i learned a lot from it, and ultimately met my wife through that folly. i wouldn't go back and change a thing if i could, because everyone is nothing but the sum of their experiences, and i kind of like the way i've turned out.

so basically, what i'm trying to say, is that there is another way to go about this sort of thing. it just takes a lot of patience, and conviction to stick with it no matter how...hard...it gets. i'm not trying to say what anyone should or should not do, i'm just trying to share my experience and hope someone else can take something away from it.

after my ex broke up with me for the second time, i realized what a fool i'd been. and i questioned my stance on a lot of things, including my position on sex. for several months i was determined to basically be a man whore, to make out or fuck whatever and whoever. but i couldn't go through with it. there were many times and opportunities where i could have, but that's when i realized that i didn't want that. i wanted it to mean something. i wanted the physical contact i had with another person to mean something. i didn't want to just be another notch, and i didn't want any meaningless notches on my belt. also, when i was young an interesting thought had occurred to me: if i had sex with a girl who i was not married to, in some way i was having sex with another mans wife. and i didn't like the sound of that. i stopped my aimless endeavor and focused on trying to become a better version of myself, and a few months later i took my future wife on our first date, and the rest is history.

now my wife and i are a team, we work together, we're a synergistic system, if you will. sure we've only been married a little over six months, but we both have the desire to make things work, no matter what is thrown at us. our purpose in life is to become better people, and to help each other better them self. again i stress, it won't work if you're married to someone with a different purpose, or a a selfish motive. it takes two people with cohesion of thought and process to reach maximum capacity of potential.

of course, there's always special circumstances, and extreme situations, but that's not what i'm addressing, i'm addressing the need for people to consider all of their options before making one of the most influential decisions of their life, instead of just accepting what's projected upon them by a flawed civilization.

none of this is meant to offend or condemn, people make their own choices in life, and i'm no one to judge. like i've said, i'm just trying to give a different point of view.
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That's really cool, Deschain. I must say. I wish that more people at least thought about not just their virginity, but sharing themselves so truly and fully with another person more seriously, so that it wouldn't be some cheapened thing by the time they're finished with their fifth partner. I sort of regret losing my virginity when I did, but in my "defense" at the time I truly thought I at least COULD marry the guy, and so I allowed myself to have sex at his prompting. Since then, I've just really tried to only have sex with those I'm in love with, and who I've at least tried to have a long, meaningful relationship with. But you can't see the future, so I don't regret anything as far as still having sex with my past boyfriends and then eventually leaving them.
 
Drom, agree with your stance. If you have a long, meaningful relationship and might marry the person, then having sex is a reasonable choice. If it's someone you've spent a lot of time with and could see yourself marrying, then you might as well enjoy each other's company. If it doesn't work out, that's life. You loved the person, they loved you, and your memories with each other will stay. Those memories might as well include holding each other and sharing one of life's greatest joys.
 
archangel_94 said:
Do you have a sister,popemobile?
Because if you do,try to imagine this...

You're walking down the street when you see a guy hitting on your sister,a complete stranger.What would you do??

And this scenario...

You find out that your sister (if you have one) is pregnant at 16 years of age by a stranger,or someone you know at school.How would you feel?What would you do to that person who had sex with your sister?

What about this...

Your sister goes out with a person that you don't approve of,you don't like.Your parents say "no" to her about going out together with that boy,but secretly,she goes out with him,and has sex with him,and have a baby.How would you feel?


As for men,they don't have to endure the shame they would have if they were 16 and pregnant.
Click to expand...
My sister and I are close enough to where we can discuss our sexual relationships like good friends. I watch men hit on her, and I've even encouraged cool guys to hit on her. My sister once had a pregnancy scare, and I joked around with her boyfriend while they were still worried about it. It's not his fault completely, and even so it's by no means my bussiness to intervene.

So, assuming your values, let me ask you this;

Would your sister do the same thing for you? Would she fight the woman you got pregnant? Would she discourage women from hitting on you? NO. Sisters typically encourage relationships after they mature enough. You complain about the double standard for men and women at the bottom, and yet you perpetuate the concept yourself by finding pregnancy the man's fault instead of the responsibility of both partners.
 
i'm 18, i'm a virgin by convenience--seems too annoying to try and get laid, and i don't really see the point right now honestly. i have no qualms about a person losing their viginity, but w/e, condoms break, etc... and if i got a girl pregnant i would be a douche, so, yeah. i'm actually really good with women in general, but i don't see sex as the goal when i'm talking to them or anything, i kinda... like the hunt? dick way to put it, but yeah.

I don't really see viriginity in itself as that big a deal. It's not a mark of maturity to have "lost" it, and even if there is biological proof of having "lost" it (i forget if there is or isn't), you haven't really done anything that special, kids. You've only done what at least half of mankind has ever done, and if you wanted physical satisfaction or w/e that bad... meh, really. i don't see virginity or the loss of it as being important; i respect human beings based upon other factors (namely wit, courage and yes, sometimes attractiveness)--not that anybody here doesn't.

i guess what i'm trying to say is, i don't care.
 
Lol obsessed, I would disagree with you there. It probably differs depending on which circle of people you hang with, but (not to be cocky) I am a captain of the track team, muscular, decent looking enough (I hope!), have lots of friends, and never until this girlfriend have been presented with opportunities to have sex, or even seriously talk about having it with others.

And deschain, your post is the most insightful and heartwarming thing I've read in a long time. I congratulate you on your both waiting for marriage, and hope only the best for you two.

While I've often thought of casual dating being akin to "a thousand little divorces", it's also impossible to not acknowledge its possible benefits. Yes, dating can be likened to practicing divorce, but is also an ample opportunity to practice marriage. While I haven't really "dated around" (a practice I don't really approve of, as I really think it does condition the response to "run" at a moment's notice if the relationship goes sour), I've had two or three notable relationships, and from each one I have learned valuable lessons.

On a similar note, I've also come to the conclusion that I am compatible with many different people - I don't know if I believe in "the one" or whatever people like to call it, as I've already dated two people that I wouldn't have minded spending the rest of my life with; the first one didn't work out because she stopped putting effort in, and I am currently in the second. I will agree that though some people are simply incompatible with others and have no chance at staying together, most couples that last a few months could generally be made to work if there was more of a team effort. I am angered by how easily one partner will leave another if something goes wrong for a month, week, or even just one day. So essentially, I 100% agree that relationships are a team effort. Even the best ones where the two people are "perfect" for each other, if one partner decides to stop doing their part, will end in utter failure.

Anyways, congrats again, and thanks for posting :).
 
I'm twenty and lost my virginity at nineteen to a girl who was also a virgin(we are still dating).

honestly, don't let someone else change your views on it, for any reason. form your own opinions and stick to them.

and no offense, but her banging a dude who she lost her virginity to(and was then, ah, uh... heartbroken?) is not acceptable, and you shouldn't make excuses as though it is. but hey, whateva', it's your life.
:)
 
it's strange to see so many smogoners have such conservative (by conservative i dont mean abstinence only education lol) views on sex. a sign of maturity or is it something else (prudes, naive, fear, awkwardness, shyness)? the weird thing for me is that i try and tell myself that i should respect views that are not mine but i have a difficult time actually feeling that way... i've been reading these posts in wholehearted disagreement and i just can't help but not respect "love only" sex and waiting for that special someone.

why do we torture ourselves so much with sex?!?!?!?!?!??!?!? yes there are varying degrees of quality in our sexual encounters and fishy's love fueled ones are probably the most satisfying ones, but there are varying degrees of quality in our movies as well! do you repetitively watch the same movies or only watch movies that win best picture at the oscars? do you save your first movie for that movie that has a great aggregate score on rotten tomatoes? no, because experimenting is fun: you might want to see a comedy that interests, or a sci-fi epic, so why can't our sexual encounters be the same? it's no wonder humans are so frickin neurotic...

it's also strange to see this obsession with virginity... i've always looked at it as "eating my first apple" (i.e. some trivial stepping stone on the way to maturity). i wouldn't have even cared about it as an event if not for the emphasis so many give it; i was only stoked about getting laid :p.
 
^ Though I wouldn't compare sex to watching a movie, ivar brings up a good point. Too often our society (likely due to religious influence) puts stigmas on the act of sex. It's a natural thing. Consider this, we can watch people die in a G-rated Disney movie. Is having watching sex more scarring to a kid, or seeing someone die?? Personally, I believe that death is a far more terrible thing. If humans are good, how is their creation such an unholy act and their demise a neutral one?

If I recall correctly, often animal cubs (along with play fighting and chasing) will try sexual acts with each other while growing up to gain experience. It's part of life, no different from eating an apple.
 
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