Yeah. That's what I thought too. If Ulgamoth is in killing range of Lucario's Extremespeed I tend to keep it in and attempt to activate burnhax. Anyway, I wouldn't use Swarm because of this: Once it has enough BD boosts nothing can hurt it with Special Attacks outside of a critical hit which should KO. Physical attacks rarely manage to get it into Swarm range because most of them KO due to the moth's atrocious defense stat.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Volcarona
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Yeah. That's what I thought too. If Ulgamoth is in killing range of Lucario's Extremespeed I tend to keep it in and attempt to activate burnhax. Anyway, I wouldn't use Swarm because of this: Once it has enough BD boosts nothing can hurt it with Special Attacks outside of a critical hit which should KO. Physical attacks rarely manage to get it into Swarm range because most of them KO due to the moth's atrocious defense stat.
Like stated before, you can pull off Bug Buzz with more power on lower life. I was actually considering a Pinch Berry Sub/Butterfly Dance set. A boost or two from Flame Dance, however many BD you get, and one guaranteed attack? Resisted or not, it's still going to hurt a fuckton.
Swarm is good for more defensive sets that can take a hit i.e. the 252/252 HP/Def BD sweeper.
I disagree. First of all burnhax is only useful on physical sweepers which, judging from your argument against Swarm, you wouldn't pit Ulgamoth against anyway. And it can survive resisted physical hits and a few neutral ones; a lot of neutral physical attacks aren't going to just be flat out OHKOing a healthy Ulgamoth, unless perhaps they came from something like Roopushin or Ononokusu. And again, if you're running a more defensive set, Swarm is more viable, but then again Flame body is as well. Regardless, I never run Flame Body on PO and I get at least one Swarm-boosted Bug Buzz off on my opponent per battle, with a more defensive spread.
Sphyxius said:
Or on offensive SubPetaya sets? Speaking of which, is Sub Petaya even viable on Urugamoth? It does resist Bullet Punch and Mach Punch, and there's not much that it can't switch in and setup on(and the SR weakness in this case may even be helpful in some cases). Aqua Jet hurts though.
Um, I'd still go for Swarm on normal BD sets because of the power boost gained after switching into SR+taking an attack. Just my opinion though, Flame Body never worked for me really.
After 3 Butterfly Dances and you can 3HKO Blissey with Bug Buzz. It may sound like it needs to set up a bit but I didn't factor in any Item boosts so maybe if you have life orb it's a 2HKO. Without any item boosts if you are within Swarm range you only need two Butterfly Dances for a garaunteed 2HKO.
You shouldn't be fighting against a Blissey with Urgamosu unless you're at about +6, Toxic Spikes are down and it doesn't have Aromatherapy, or you're running LOLphysicalMoth.
I used a SubPetaya Ulgamoth once, and it won me a fair few matches (may have been mentioned already, but...):
-Fire Blast
-Bug Buzz
-Substitute
-Butterfly Dance
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
Item: Petaya Berry
Ability: Swarm
Speaking of physical Ulgamoth, it has a fair few options, but it doesn't have the raw base Attack to use them. Here's a (hypothetical) physical set if its Attack was a bit higher:
-Flare Blitz
-Wild Charge
-Zen Headbutt/Double-Edge
-Bug Bite/Double-Edge
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Item: Life Orb/Choice Band
The above set is pure novelty, and not to be taken seriously.
I didn't mean send out Urugamosu against a Blissey set up then sweep. I meant send out Urugamosu on something that doesn't threaten up set up while they switch to Blissey then Substitute and BD one more time THEN sweep. This is off topic but can someone rate my Blissey?
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Protect/Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss/Shadow Ball/Flamethrower
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Sp.Def
Item: Leftovers
This is MY version of Cleric Blissey. I have six different Blissey so that I could test out which is better. If you don't like any of the attacking options you can also use Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. If you want more coverage you can put an attack in the third move slot but this isn't recomended since this Blissey is suppose to support the team not battle. Back on topic is why do people keep saying that Urugamosu cant survive physical hits? It's bad but not THAT bad Urugamosu can survive a Base 150 Power Attack coming off a 328 Atk Stat with no HP or Defense EVs. Yes it is going to have very low remaining health but the good news is it's gonna be in Swarm range and if you have used Butterfly Dance at least once you can start sweeping with Bug Buzz
-Wish
-Heal Bell
-Protect/Toxic/Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss/Shadow Ball/Flamethrower
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP/252 Def/252 Sp.Def
Item: Leftovers
This is MY version of Cleric Blissey. I have six different Blissey so that I could test out which is better. If you don't like any of the attacking options you can also use Thunderbolt or Ice Beam. If you want more coverage you can put an attack in the third move slot but this isn't recomended since this Blissey is suppose to support the team not battle. Back on topic is why do people keep saying that Urugamosu cant survive physical hits? It's bad but not THAT bad Urugamosu can survive a Base 150 Power Attack coming off a 328 Atk Stat with no HP or Defense EVs. Yes it is going to have very low remaining health but the good news is it's gonna be in Swarm range and if you have used Butterfly Dance at least once you can start sweeping with Bug Buzz
If you're dumb enough to switch into SR and even dumber to think it can take an attack afterwards with no boosts... I guess if you switched in on something really weak attack-wise but that is going to attack you nonetheless... which seems really rare.
Sub + BD + two attacks does not sound promising honestly. It hampers your coverage immensely in order to sacrifice a third (or is it half, i can never remember because i never use pinch berry sets) to get a boost that is miniscule compared to one BD that would have taken you one turn an no HP (ideally), as opposed to a sub pinch strategy that requires a lot of HP and 3 turns. Doesn't sound efficient to me.
Well, non-stab Fire Attacks/Gyro Ball/Grass Attacks are not really uncommon from my experience. Urgamoth's special defense is pretty high at 105 base.
Yeah, I was just trying to ask whether a subPetaya set would be viable, I never said it was good or not :/
Yeah, I was just trying to ask whether a subPetaya set would be viable, I never said it was good or not :/
Hmmmm... Since I'm already on DW I might as well consider changing to swarm. Most of the physical attackers that can't OHKO the moth can generally be handled by bug buzz/fire dance. Loom and Scizor die to Fire Dance and I won't be staying in on anything with Rock Slide unless I'm at +enough to OHKO.
I am really enjoying the use of this moth; its only failing is its poor defense and incompetence at running a physical/mixed set.
I am really enjoying the use of this moth; its only failing is its poor defense and incompetence at running a physical/mixed set.
I suppose it could work, but why bother? You have that wonderful butterfly dance which is what makes Urgamoth so good, sub-petaya sets are pretty much wasting it's potential.
As for that Swarm vs. Flame Body discussion earlier, myself i prefer Flame Body on any set, especially bulky ones. I used to have swarm, but it just kicks in so rarely that it's not worth it. Flame Body on the other hand is not just useful when setting up, it's great when opponents spam U-turn or such, so you can cripple them just by switching in. But in the end it comes down to preference i guess. Both are useful abilities, but neither is crucial to moth's success, they're more of a boon.
It only applies to Spikes and Toxic Spikes. Stealth Rock damage remains unchanged even with Balloon.
I've been using the ChestoRest set supplied by whoever posted it a couple pages back, and it's pretty awesome. Urugamosu can come in on the oh-so-common Nattorei and whatever else it resists. Works pretty well with Erufuun, which encores something like ice beam for Urug to switch into to.
Thunder Wave/Softboiled/Seismic Toss/Softboiled. Rinse and repeat.
I'd bet my bloody buttchunks that Game Freak made Ulgamoth because they wanted a Bug-type that people would actually USE.
Scizors shall sweep u for the rest of your pokemon playing day!...as will heracross,scyther and forretress...
its really to bad that Volcorona doesnt have a better way to hit flash fire pokes beyond hp ground...but then again, Vaporeon isnt (only) used because its cute. Wish support AND heatran + (certain) chandelure counter(or is it a check?) yes please!
bloody But chunks?
Ehhh,Volcarona can't exactly switch in on Heatran or Chandelure whenever it wants.
Even with its 100 Base Sp.Def,I'm sure it wont like a STAB Fire Blast especially if you don't invest in bulk.
Yes thats true but why would it ever switch into those two? Thats what vaporeons(of any other bulky water) there for.
Didn't really read your post correctly...why would even need to counter them?
After a BD,Volcarona can take them on both :/
Scarf Shandera's Fire Blast did ~72% to a 4hp/252satk/252spe unboosted Ulgamoth. I BD-ed as it attacked then OHKOed it with HP Ground on the next turn. Moral of the story: Ulgamoth cannot switch in on the strong Fire assaults of Shandera/Heatran even if you're running a bulkier variant.