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When team building for standard 5th gen OU, what do you personally take into account?

When I design a team there is a list I check against. On my team, there should be a method/Pokemon that can handle these certain threats. Here it is and its in order from most important to least (though they all need to be taken into account):

1. Strong Dragon attacks
2. Volt-Turn (an ability to keep SR down, off your side)
3. Strong Water attacks (aka rain teams)
4. Status Users
4. Terrakion (sand teams/offensive teams)
5. Stall
6. Physical Fighting Types
7. Heatran (most things that cover heatran cover sun)

I have found that if your team generally doesn't have an answer to these threats, it will fail. It may seem to be a lot to cover, but most Pokes can cover more than one. For example Jellicent can act as an answer to Strong Water attacks, stall, most physical fighting types, and Heatran. The teams I build now are goal oriented, but if I can't answer these things it compromises my ability to do that.
 
ThePillsburyDoughBoy said:
When I design a team there is a list I check against. On my team, there should be a method/Pokemon that can handle these certain threats. Here it is and its in order from most important to least (though they all need to be taken into account):

1. Strong Dragon attacks
2. Volt-Turn (an ability to keep SR down, off your side)
3. Strong Water attacks (aka rain teams)
4. Status Users
4. Terrakion (sand teams/offensive teams)
5. Stall
6. Physical Fighting Types
7. Heatran (most things that cover heatran cover sun)

I have found that if your team generally doesn't have an answer to these threats, it will fail. It may seem to be a lot to cover, but most Pokes can cover more than one. For example Jellicent can act as an answer to Strong Water attacks, stall, most physical fighting types, and Heatran. The teams I build now are goal oriented, but if I can't answer these things it compromises my ability to do that.
Click to expand...

I agree. However, to achieve this, I make sure there is synergy between my team members, and that is crucial.
 
Threat coverage should always always be a secondary consideration, even on stall. That's something even the best teambuilders often get wrong. Always make sure you can execute a fundamental strategy against the vast majority of teams.
 
When I build a team I try to focus on team Synergy as a priority. Team preview takes alot of my mind when building a team so I find it best to make as little weaknesses as possible while still retaining priority on my team. I focus on the defensive core first before the offensive core. I also like to take different team builds into account. I like to focus on countering weather teams the most sense they always give me trouble. (I hate weather)

Next, I focus on the offensive core which most of the time I like to integrate into my defensive core for some added synergy though lately I have scrapped this idea in favor or a slightly less obvious approach of using Pokemon I don't feel I need to use for the teams synergy but still a major threat and an all around generally useful Pokemon.

Finally, it's always trouble but it's always gonna be there. The glue. God I hate this part. What's that last Pokemon gonna be? The one thing that holds it all together. Just it being there helps my team immensely. With the rest of my team they fit so well together that the 6th Pokemon always seems to be the ball and chain that's keeping my team from being great. This part usually requires a ton of testing before completing my team and scraps my team, most of the time, because the team itself never really comes together in the end. This is my advice to you in team building. That 6th Pokemon, the hard glue, is extremely important to your team. It's not a Pokemon you can just put on your team and expect to win those tough battles. It takes quite a bit of time to find that last Pokemon and sometimes you might have to edit or scrap your entire team just for that glue. Don't underestimate that last empty spot. The last Pokemon is the one Pokemon you ABSOLUTELY need.
 
When I make an OU team, here is the process:

First, I select a goal. In my current team, that is sweep with a CM Virizion.

At that point, I go through the Checks & Counters section and Additional Comments to search for what I need to beat. These threats basically boiled down to Latias, Latios, Reuniclus, and Tornadus as the main counters. Specially Defensive Jirachi is also a threat, as are Espeon and Mamoswine. So, I put in a Pokemon that could beat Latias, Latios, Reuniclus, Tornadus, and Espeon.

From there, I look for any gaping weaknesses. For my example, these are Fire-types and VoltTurn. Since VoltTurn is very general, I made a list of VoltTurn users, and included something that could adequately threaten VoltTurn.

At this point, I look for entry hazards. I usually make sure to carry Stealth Rock and often Spikes. I took an unorthodox but effective approach to this in my example team.

If I haven't already established a weather, I normally choose a weather that best suits the team. For my example, I went with sand because it is very neutral and doesn't really hurt any of the current team members, while preventing rain and sun.

From there, I looked down the OU, BL, and UU lists for any threats I had missed. My f***ing stupid self forgot Terrakion, so I put something that could fix that.

Basically my process for any team I make.
 
Hey, i've took a long break from Smogon, and 5th gen as a whole.

Matter of fact, i'm barley decent at 5th gen. I used to be a fairly good Gen 4 player, i got lazy and didn't want to learn 5th gen when it first came out.

I pretty much know the basic stuff. I'm just having trouble with team building.

This thread tells some pretty vital information, but not enough. Here's my problem.

Let's say i have a core of Dragonite / Politoed / Ferrothorn

It's a pretty good core, i must admit. Here's the problem. When i team build, i get a core of two or three, then i'm stuck.

I don't know who else to add to the team. It's pretty bad. I need some help with that part of team building.

Let's say if i do add a fourth member, to cover Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Politoed weaknesses..then i'm stuck thinking who should i add for my fifth and sixth member.

I truly need help with this..any suggestions?

Thanks.
 
December said:
Hey, i've took a long break from Smogon, and 5th gen as a whole.

Matter of fact, i'm barley decent at 5th gen. I used to be a fairly good Gen 4 player, i got lazy and didn't want to learn 5th gen when it first came out.

I pretty much know the basic stuff. I'm just having trouble with team building.

This thread tells some pretty vital information, but not enough. Here's my problem.

Let's say i have a core of Dragonite / Politoed / Ferrothorn

It's a pretty good core, i must admit. Here's the problem. When i team build, i get a core of two or three, then i'm stuck.

I don't know who else to add to the team. It's pretty bad. I need some help with that part of team building.

Let's say if i do add a fourth member, to cover Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Politoed weaknesses..then i'm stuck thinking who should i add for my fifth and sixth member.

I truly need help with this..any suggestions?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you find yourself stuck in that sort of situation, try a more basic sort of set up: A defensive core and an offensive one.

A good general format to start out with is a physical wall, a special wall, and then something to cover what they can't (like... skarmbliss+jellicent to cover strong fighting types)

Then create an offensive core with a set up sweeper, a wallbreaker/hits hard right away (band/specs usually) and a revenge killer.

Test and deviate away from that until you get comfortable moving on to more creative teams
 
When building a team, I generally take into account having the most perfect type coverage possible. My problem is that there are many things that I want or or I (think that I) need in my team, such as a revenge killer, a rapid spinner, and sometimes I have the opposite problem from user December: I have many ideas, but don't know how to make them work together; I always end up with a team that can't take every threat in the metagame.
 
December said:
Hey, i've took a long break from Smogon, and 5th gen as a whole.

Matter of fact, i'm barley decent at 5th gen. I used to be a fairly good Gen 4 player, i got lazy and didn't want to learn 5th gen when it first came out.

I pretty much know the basic stuff. I'm just having trouble with team building.

This thread tells some pretty vital information, but not enough. Here's my problem.

Let's say i have a core of Dragonite / Politoed / Ferrothorn

It's a pretty good core, i must admit. Here's the problem. When i team build, i get a core of two or three, then i'm stuck.

I don't know who else to add to the team. It's pretty bad. I need some help with that part of team building.

Let's say if i do add a fourth member, to cover Dragonite / Ferrothorn / Politoed weaknesses..then i'm stuck thinking who should i add for my fifth and sixth member.

I truly need help with this..any suggestions?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

well, what I normally do is, either
1) decide on a specific team style ie: rain, sun, trick room, stall ect.

2) decide on a certain pokemon that I want to build the team around, whether it be for power, liking said pokemon, being a hipster and using uncommon pokemon or any other reason.

From there I look the current pokemon's weaknesses and add on more pokemon to cover that weakness. (this applies more to no.2) For example, if I set up my team I would add a Magnezone and a hazard abuser because Cloyster appreciates hazard support to net certain KO's and Magnezone is there to beat some troublesome steel and water types.

This logic applies to any pokemon that you want to build a team around, and if you decide to build a type of team the process is largely similar, but you identify team builds that trouble you, for example hail struggles with sun, sand has issues with rain and many others. Of course some individual pokemon trouble entire team types, like Ferrothorn and rain or Virizion and sand and solving these issues are often on the top priority of team-builders.

Now, on to getting you into battling, unfortunately you just missed battling 101 but if you look around that forum for a while you should get the gist of what happens there and how it works. Until then I suggest that you build a team of- you're going to hate what i'm about to say (I know I do)- OU's top pokemon, I know everybody dreams of creating the next OU god but sadly that isn't too likely, once you familiarize your self with the OU environment I would suggest expanding the pool of pokemon you consider (keep away from luvdisc though) and begin your journey up the Ladder. From there the world is your (cl)oyster and there is no stopping you from achieving every players dream and topping the ladder.
 
When I make a team, I usually have one poke' that I want to sweep, so then I make a team that can help it sweep. Also, I am more of a balanced player, so I like there to be a good defensive core, should I lose momentum.
 
Depending on what metagame you are playing, you should take into account and list all the threats you see and find great counters against them. However, don't over do it by building a whole team focusing on just threats, build a team that can counter other teams as well.

You also have to think about synergy, which Pokemon play a role on your team, and the typing of you team as well. First off with synergy, you can't just build a whole entire team of sweepers. You have to look at the support Pokemon that can benefit your team. For example, Vaporeon is a great support Pokemon and it has been one of my favorites when I played 4th gen OU singles. Vaporeon can pair well with many sweepers and heal them with wish, a move that Vaporeon can toy with. So please remember that. Next thing is what Pokemon play a role on your team. For example, a team should be 50/50 by have half of it sweepers/bulky hitters and the other half supporters/walls. Keeping that in mind, you should think about the different types. Zapdos, Jellicent, and Ferrothorn form a defensive core that has resistance to all other types. You should also take a look at what types your team is weak to.

So yeah, take this into consideration when testing, etc.
 
well when I build a team i notice most people at the sight of ferrothorn go straight for the attack instead of setup so i try to focus on taking out threats to my defensive core using my offensive core i usually run 2 def core and 4 offensive core with 2 physical and 2 special sweepers along with most OU pokemon being resistant to SR it helps lessen the damage though im troubled only when it comes down to items as we know everybody would love to have 6 mons with lefties
 
i get a poke that i really want to use around and i start getting pokes all around it that benefit or might be useful for certain counters...after im done i see if theres any threats or mayor flaws the team has...then fix it and hope its a better team xD...not a great way to make a team btw js
 
when creating a team, for some odd reason idc about entry hazards and spinners and whatnot
instead, i place my focus into achieving maximum coverage and having few weaknesses
i also ensure that my pokemon are bulky enough to take a hit before i consider their placement
 
One thing I have been trying to do recently is make teams with lots of electric and grass moves since water types are so common. Most people only have one counter to water pokemon and when it gets ko'd they can't counter the other water types. Depending on what the metagame is doing I try to have 1-3 pokemon that are good against water types. Any more than that is overkill.
 
Rapid Spin and stealth rock are my biggest piorities. I don't think I have ever built a 5th gen team without rapid spin and an entry hazard. They are an important part of the metagame and they should always be countered with rapid spin.
 
I make alot of HO teams so my main worry is how to stop threats like scarf terra from destroying my team. Scizor and Hydreigon are also quite high up on there, aswell as sun teams in general.
 
Well, I usually build around one pokemon I find interesting. I build so that only 2 Pokemon are weaknto the same type of move and make sure my team members allnsupport each other. Then I go to the OU forums and checknthe offensive and defensive threats and see how I can deal with them. But then most improtantly, I battle numerous times on The Smogon server and discovering and fixing weaknesses I find as I battle. A good team takes a long time to make, so don't make a team, battle a couple and toss the team if you lose, keep making changes, covering threats, etc.
 
For me the only way to build a great team is to have a goal in mind throughout the teambuilding process. As long as you have purpose, it's very easy to build a team, because say you pick out SD Mienshao and decide you want to build a team around that, the first thing you should have in mind is finding a great partner for it. Now I usually find that building a team purely around one Pokemon isn't that effective, because a team based around a single Pokemon is often too dependent on that Pokemon to succeed. If, however, you build first find a good partner for the Pokemon (In Mienshao's case, its main weaknesses are bulky ghost types and faster Pokemon, so something like Gengar could be a good fit to force out Ghosts and deal with Pokemon like Terrakion or HP Fire Latios that are faster than Mienshao but slower than it. Gengar also appreciates Mienshao's ability to force out or obliterate specially bulky Pokemon.) you now have a two-mon core, and building around that ensures you don't end up with a team that relies too heavily on one Pokemon, but still has an overall goal in mind. Having this goal makes playing the team a lot easier, and also means that the team will always have a proactive playstyle, the only one that will work. Of course, it's nice to cover threats too, but the focus of a team should NEVER be on beating Pokemon, only on ensuring Pokemon cannot disrupt the overall team goal. This will, of course, often lead to having something to beat most threats, but it will never lead to putting specially defensive Jirachi on HO because you don't have a Draco Meteor switch or anything like that. Instead, you might end up having a Lucario that can't switch into that Draco Meteor but can set up on a -2 one. Once you have the pairing it shouldn't take you long to add more team members as long as you have a solid ability to spot threats - this is something that can only come with experience, but it's vital to a really successful team.
 
I like versatile pokemon who can do a wide variety of different things. I like to keep my opponent guessing and versatile pokemon do just that. With jirachi for instance, you never know if it's going to be an attacker or some sort of support set. I also like pokemon who can take a hit and at the same time dish out damage. Reuniclus fits the bill pretty well for that. He can take fighting and psychic attacks and absorb status moves, and at the same time provide support and deal huge amounts of damage.
 
Being able to handle Volcarona and Dragonite is a must. Along with the ever common Volt-Turn...

Picking the play style of the team, as well as your goal.
Then simply choose the best OU Hoes to accomplish that. <3
The End. Have fun being creative is key.
 
bubbly said:
Threat coverage should always always be a secondary consideration, even on stall. That's something even the best teambuilders often get wrong. Always make sure you can execute a fundamental strategy against the vast majority of teams.
Click to expand...

I do, that game plan has a beggining, a middle, and an endgame. (maybe I'm saying the same thing twice and disagreeing with you) What I was trying to convey was that unless you have some sort of answers to those threats, your goal you are trying to accomplish will just get completely halted. Having "an answer" to something doesn't necessarily mean a complete counter. For example, Lucario's Extremespeed could help in a situation vs a +6 / +6 Salamence. Now let's take a look at that list. It looks like a big list, but many things can answer more than one thing on this list (I'm going to try to limit it to 3 Pokes)

1. Strong Dragon attacks
-Heatran (supplemental help with other steels will be more effective)
2. Volt-Turn (an ability to keep SR down, off your side)
-Roserade / Hazard core
3. Strong Water attacks (aka rain teams)
-Jellicent, Roserade
4. Status Users
-Roserade
4. Terrakion (sand teams/offensive teams)
-Jellicent (an offensive 4th member is needed though)
5. Stall
-Jellicent
6. Physical Fighting Types
-Jellicent (an additional Psychic/Flying member will be needed)
7. Heatran (most things that cover heatran cover sun)
Jellicent, Heatran (non-Earth Power)

U Jelly? (Jellicent) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Taunt
- Surf
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Mr. Flamer (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Roar
- Protect

Zorro? (Roserade) (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 152 HP / 68 SAtk / 252 SDef / 36 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Rest
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Now as you can see I got some pretty decent answers to what are the threats that are cited to be problems for some teams in a "standard" RMT rate. Now I came into this thinking what should I try to do? Well since Jellicent was the example I gave why not hazard stack? I had a goal in mind, looked and analyzed for the team mates that had the movepool and typing to make it happen. FWG is textbook synergy; as is hazards+ghost. I go to my checklist, and from what I can see, it can go toe to toe with a lot of threats. With the help of other team members built in a similar process (with one or two "bridge members" you should be all set.

Basically you shouldn't just be asking yourself "what tasks can let me accomplish beating the other team" but also "How do other teams stack up against me and how can I prevent them from accomplishing their tasks?" The latter question is where threat coverage makes it equally as important as designing and accomplishing your own goal.
 
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